LCA Tejas: News and Discussions

habal · Post by **habal** » 21 Jan 2016 19:13

commentary for f-16 block 60 was vivid .. it can takr 9g's, a lot changed in blk-60 hasn't old familiarity etc. for LCA the commentary was much more sparse, first note was made of 350° turn which was 'not that much at all'. then mention was made of MCA in development with stealth capabilities, internal weapons bay, extensive fbw etc. Atleast that is what i heard, didn't catch all of it. And didn't catch the taxiing, take off etc since was on bahrain news feed.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 21 Jan 2016 19:22

the commentator being british, he will always suck up to american kit. the mirage2000 commentary was also very sparse. f-16 was gushing. he pronounced sarang as sarong and tejas as teyas earlier.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 21 Jan 2016 19:22

Viv S wrote:Was this a one-time thing or can we expect flight demos tomorrow and day after tomorrow as well?

Also, how was the quality of camera-work on the Bahraini channel? As good as the short clips of the Tejas' rehearsal from Tuesday?

Infact one of the support was heard saying to the pilot, 'Two more to go'.

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 21 Jan 2016 19:23

Habal Ji, the commentator by his accent appeared English and I expect he was/ is a pilot too. He must have known a lot more of the F 16 and was almosta home product for him. To me it did not appear that he deliberately played down the Tejas.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 21 Jan 2016 19:23

Viv S wrote:Was this a one-time thing or can we expect flight demos tomorrow and day after tomorrow as well?

Also, how was the quality of camera-work on the Bahraini channel? As good as the short clips of the Tejas' rehearsal from Tuesday?

Infact one of the support was heard saying to the pilot, 'Two more to go'.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 21 Jan 2016 19:24

the bahraini tv camera was better than DD/MSM but not very uber clear or steady.

JTull · Post by **JTull** » 21 Jan 2016 19:25

Singha wrote:the commentator being british, he will always suck up to american kit. the mirage2000 commentary was also very sparse. f-16 was gushing. he pronounced sarang as sarong and tejas as teyas earlier.

deejay wrote:Habal Ji, the commentator by his accent appeared English and I expect he was/ is a pilot too. He must have known a lot more of the F 16 and was almosta home product for him. To me it did not appear that he deliberately played down the Tejas.

I think it was Mark Jefferies. Heard some mention during the F-16 display but can't be sure.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 21 Jan 2016 19:45

habal wrote:. . . first note was made of 350° turn which was 'not that much at all' . . .

In fact, he meant it was a very tight turn, 350m.

shaun · Post by **shaun** » 21 Jan 2016 19:54

http://english.mathrubhumi.com/news/ind ... s-1.813894

Bharadwaj · Post by **Bharadwaj** » 21 Jan 2016 19:57

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jR398fC2xAo
Video from Nitin Gokhale.... 360 degree turn completed in 20-21 seconds..... faster than we have seen before for the Tejas.

habal · Post by **habal** » 21 Jan 2016 20:02

deejay wrote:Habal Ji, the commentator by his accent appeared English and I expect he was/ is a pilot too. He must have known a lot more of the F 16 and was almosta home product for him. To me it did not appear that he deliberately played down the Tejas.

no, it was not deliberate. He didn't know much of the platforn apart from reading in brochures, and briefing about manouvers to be performed during the show. He must have flown f-16 many times and has experince to compare and ofcourse being british there will be an underhand remark or two but it didn't appear here. He made a note on how it was very nimble platform, and then must have started drifting away into how chinese and indians would now make combat a/c and his once comfortable world would change too ... however all that is made up by me and no such was said on air nor were any ramarks to that effect. There is lot of instinctive apprehension on any new entrant to such a field.

Yes, that was a sharp turn and circle.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Jan 2016 20:22

shiv wrote:
JTull wrote:Beautiful! Thanks for posting the link.
Kicking myself. Was paying bills online while the display was going on. 350 meters turn is terrific.

Anyone know the velocity/speed? We can estimate the Gs in the turn. v^2/r

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 21 Jan 2016 20:29

anyone with decent IS and a mono/tripod can take some stable pic.. but homing on the flying object comes with experience in understanding the various maneuvers so that camera knows the expected flight path to trail.

this is basic for any dork media.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 21 Jan 2016 20:44

Singha wrote:the commentator being british, he will always suck up to american kit. the mirage2000 commentary was also very sparse. f-16 was gushing. he pronounced sarang as sarong and tejas as teyas earlier.

some Yacob Hore-hey!

.. [Jacob George]. Getting him to narrate Tejas is important milestone. We have to now focus on slamming our DDM than these people.

SidSom · Post by **SidSom** » 21 Jan 2016 20:49

What I found interesting in the commentary was the details he was providing on what the pilot was doing. Like square loop "pilot holds the stick..... wait for it. Now pull the stick back". Or even the slow pass at 110 mph and switching on of the AfterBurner after that to go into vertical climb.

It was a balanced commentary (IMO. Also I did not watch the F16 show). Yes he was appreciative of the 350m turn saying it was a small radius for the turn.

Zynda · Post by **Zynda** » 21 Jan 2016 20:54

SaiK wrote:
Singha wrote:the commentator being british, he will always suck up to american kit. the mirage2000 commentary was also very sparse. f-16 was gushing. he pronounced sarang as sarong and tejas as teyas earlier.
some Yacob Hore-hey! .. [Jacob George]. Getting him to narrate Tejas is important milestone. We have to now focus on slamming our DDM than these people.

OT. ^^I heard the gora commentator pronounce Tejas as "Tee-jas" at least on one occasion during the display. I found Nitin's video giving a nice perspective on how sharp some of the turns were.

Highly OT: This dude Konstantin Khmelik captures the air show performances really well. Nice steady camera work with HD quality and apt timing wrt zooming in & out to provide almost in-person experience. Here is a beautiful video of MiG-29OVT from MAKS

shravanp · Post by **shravanp** » 21 Jan 2016 20:56

Bharadwaj wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jR398fC2xAo
Video from Nitin Gokhale.... 360 degree turn completed in 20-21 seconds..... faster than we have seen before for the Tejas.

That was excellent vid of Tejas. Loved the first few seconds where it dropped down vertically and did a fly-past. Marvelous sharp turns.

With all the vah vahs Tejas will be receiving following the Bahrain performance, will there be any DDM who would say "...but we need the best for our Air Force!!" (standard argument)

Abhay_S · Post by **Abhay_S** » 21 Jan 2016 21:27

^^^ we also need to support/promote the journalists who are doing a good job. Nitin Ghokle and Anant Krishnan are doing a terrific job

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 21 Jan 2016 21:29

Meanwhile my unabated pestering of Tejas FB admin continues.

Some points:

Q. What are the multi-rack solutions that you guys are looking at? Multiple A2A missiles or SDBs on the mid-board and underbelly station seem lucrative, don't they?

A. yes, they are. The Derby and python can be carried simultaneously both in MB and IB. As of onw, underbelly pylons are for carrying a 725 ltr drop tank. The pylons for tandem bombs in the IB are in final stage for integration.

Q. Related question.What is the envisaged load out while carrying the tandem bombs. Is the following possible (payload capacity wise): 725 ltrs of fuel + Litening + IB: tandem bombs (2X450 kgs) + MB: LGBs + OB: CCM.

A. Tejas is capable of carrying 4.5tons of eternal load. The LGBs in the MB in presence of drop tanks is the most critical and tougher config to fly with LDP. There will be one odd configs which might have to be avoided. The 725 ltr DT has to be tested with other stores although separation of it is already cleared through flight testing.

I will confirm that 4500 kg external payload capacity. That is BIG! Everything including Tejas brochures have quoted 3.5 Tons, although I had suspected it is greater than that about two years ago when a picture showing 3 drop tanks, Litening pod, 2 LGBs and 2 CCMs appeared.

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 21 Jan 2016 21:31

Folks we are in a stage where we should not give credence to noise made by naysayers. This platform has proved itself beyond everyone's expectations. Does not matter what a commentator or DDM will say (expect 2/3 articles in coming weeks).

Lets focus on platform itself. Pics/Vid/interviews/etc. That's all we need in this thread.

Picklu · Post by **Picklu** » 21 Jan 2016 21:42

One thing I noticed about this display is lot of maneuver in the vertical plane and not just in horizontal. Along with tighter turns, lot of zoom climbs and vertical dives - all lightening fast.

In earlier airshows, there used to be a loop or so but not so energetic. The climb rate would be quite low.

Looks like the 8G limit clearance have opened up the envelop in this area as well.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 21 Jan 2016 21:51

Meanwhile, Tejas FB admin also says that LCA will be pulling about 22 degrees AoA at the Airshow.

sankum · Post by **sankum** » 21 Jan 2016 22:11

The 4.5 ton external payload may be with reduction in internal fuel from 2.5 T to 1.5T so that MTOW remains 13.3T or during mid air refuelling total weight may rise to 14.3T with extra fuel to have external payload of 4.5T.

MN Kumar · Post by **MN Kumar** » 21 Jan 2016 22:15

Bharadwaj wrote:https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jR398fC2xAo
Video from Nitin Gokhale.... 360 degree turn completed in 20-21 seconds..... faster than we have seen before for the Tejas.

It looks as if LCA has broken the shackles.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 21 Jan 2016 22:31

sankum wrote:The 4.5 ton external payload may be with reduction in internal fuel from 2.5 T to 1.5T so that MTOW remains 13.3T or during mid air refuelling total weight may rise to 14.3T with extra fuel to have external payload of 4.5T.

Good point!

member_29282 · Post by **member_29282** » 21 Jan 2016 22:32

indranilroy wrote:Meanwhile, Tejas FB admin also says that LCA will be pulling about 22 degrees AoA at the Airshow.

Isn't 22 degrees AoA on the lower side? IIRC FoC is at 28 degrees.

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 21 Jan 2016 22:40

indranilroy wrote:Meanwhile my unabated pestering of Tejas FB admin continues.

Some points:
Q. What are the multi-rack solutions that you guys are looking at? Multiple A2A missiles or SDBs on the mid-board and underbelly station seem lucrative, don't they?

A. yes, they are. The Derby and python can be carried simultaneously both in MB and IB. As of onw, underbelly pylons are for carrying a 725 ltr drop tank. The pylons for tandem bombs in the IB are in final stage for integration.

I wish he'd given a clearer answer with regard to the AAMs - by 'simultaneous' did he mean same place/HP or same time? That is to say - are they considering a multi-point rack to enable the carriage of six AAMs with 2 EFTs? Don't suppose you could badger him a bit more, could you?

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 21 Jan 2016 22:53

He is the official voice. He is erring on the side of caution. So we will have to infer based on what signs he is dropping. Multiple-racks are possible but it is not the priority at the moment. Currently, they envision the carriage of 4BVRAAMs + 2 CCMs + 1 centerline fuel tank in pure A2A role.

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 21 Jan 2016 23:59

Congratulations to the Tejas Team.
FATEH !!

Watch the turn around in the media reporting now over the next 8 weeks as all publishers push their nay sayer boys and girls to publish dreams of fire about how good the Tejas is.

Will I ever get to see this moment for my beloved Arjun ? Perhaps a participation in the Russian Tank Competition might be the right thing to do.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 22 Jan 2016 00:03

no good quality video of the Tejas demo?

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 22 Jan 2016 01:11

there must be.. I am pretty positive some pro-camera men/women would have captured it.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 22 Jan 2016 02:23

Mil gaya..humko video mil gaya!

What an awesome display ! Having seen the Tejas displays at the previous 2 Aero India shows, this one is clearly better..very tight turns and a very rapid climb rate. The Tejas looks absolutely beautiful in flight!

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 22 Jan 2016 02:26

Every second of it was pure gold. But the manoeuvre at 8:55 was especially breath taking.

P.S. Commentary was pretty good. That of the British chap at least. The running description was quite useful IMO.

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 22 Jan 2016 02:28

LOL. Beaten to it by two minutes.

member_23370 · Post by **member_23370** » 22 Jan 2016 02:59

Now you know why the bandar did not turn up!!!

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 22 Jan 2016 03:10

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That was damn good! Showcased the strengths of the fighter and that it is not too weak in the other areas. The ITR at first vertical pull up and at the ends of the square were really fast. It turns on a dime. It is not too sluggish in completing a full 360 degrees either. I always loved the negative g turns of the Mirage displays. Nice to see them on the Tejas as well. And the vertical pull up right after the slow pass showcased its TWR. By the way, it was flying at about 22 degrees of AoA. So it could have flown even slower!

If IAF buys this aircraft in some numbers, be prepared to see some export orders. Its only competition is from the FA-50, and there is nothing much separating the two, except Tejas is likely to be cheaper.

VikramS · Post by **VikramS** » 22 Jan 2016 04:50

Nice

The commentary was pretty good.

Love the color scheme.

enaiel · Post by **enaiel** » 22 Jan 2016 04:55

Excellent performance from an "overweight" "underpowered" "obsolete" "in development for 3 decades" "three-legged cheetah" with "53 identified shortfalls" that "does not meet the IAF’s minimum air staff requirements (ASR)".

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 22 Jan 2016 05:26

Kartik wrote:Mil gaya..humko video mil gaya!

What an awesome display ! Having seen the Tejas displays at the previous 2 Aero India shows, this one is clearly better..very tight turns and a very rapid climb rate. The Tejas looks absolutely beautiful in flight!

Thank you!

This is the most spirited performance that I have seen of Tejas.

The top of loop starting at 8:55 reached in 8 sec - Compare that with my video linked below starting approx 59 sec
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zXT3ob1xDqg

At 8:26 it does a negative G (outside turn) - the only other time I have seen that is a Mirage 2000 in Aero India 1996
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yTzhAwci_hY

Minimum radius turn was at about 160 knots - 350 meters. Good

The slow fly by was 110 knots - 200 kmph - very good again. I have a video of Mirage 2000 flying High AoA formating with HPT 32. HPT 32 had a max speed of 280 kmph. So Tejas should be able to do that. The AoA appeared more than my own earlier videos and is probably more than 22 deg

Lots of "square turns" - but the camera did not catch a complete square loop. Vertical climb was left with enough energy to roll and turn at the top.

We now have a fighter folks

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 22 Jan 2016 06:16

^^the 110 knots was an awesome sight. Here is a prt sc.