Small Arms Thread

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 30 Jan 2016 18:25

Karan M wrote:+100 Shiv.

Meanwhile,

ARDE MCIWS and Cornershot and other systems- including a CQB Carbine variant, presumably

I saw no cqb variant, only mciws minus the barrel.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 30 Jan 2016 18:43

Short barrel variant is what it looked like on my funwa

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 04 Feb 2016 07:09

Israeli-Indian JV to make small arms in private sector

Punj Lloyd Ltd has established a 51:49 joint venture with Israel Weapon Industries (IWI). IWI has already supplied guns such as TAVOR assault rifles and UZI SMG to security forces in India and also has other major programs in which its small arms are undergoing trials.

The JV will manufacture components in the first phase for export to Israel, in which nearly 80 per cent of the components of the guns will be made in India. In the second phase, full guns will be made here for supplying to the security forces.

“This JV will be key in enabling India to leapfrog to a higher technological threshold through the adoption of advanced defence technologies. We are confident that with technology transfer from IWI, Punj Lloyd is positioned to manufacture the complete range of IWI products from pistols to light machine guns and specialist weapons like sniper rifles, in addition to providing service to the existing IWI products and support for new orders,” said Atul Punj, chairman, Punj Lloyd.

Industry sources estimate the opportunity of ongoing programs for small arms in internal and national security to be more than Rs 3,000 crore.

Currently, the manufacturing of small arms is completely with the public sector. The Union Cabinet had agreed in 2001 to allow manufacture of small arms in the private sector. Punj Llyod was among the few private firms, along with L&T and Bharat Forge, which had been granted license by DIPP to manufacture small arms in India in 2001-02. The production, however, could not start because the Home Ministry did not provide the clearance.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 28 Feb 2016 19:48

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 29 Feb 2016 01:06

Which weapon is it, Jamwal Sahib?

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 29 Feb 2016 10:26

INSAS with a grenade launcher and optical scope. Apparently in use by GHATAK platoons, unconfirmed.

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 01 Mar 2016 02:48

Thanks

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 01 Mar 2016 10:15

jamwal wrote:INSAS with a grenade launcher and optical scope. Apparently in use by GHATAK platoons, unconfirmed.

Technically speaking, that's not a scope, it's too small to be one. That's a red-dot sight. Looks like an Aimpoint or a Zeiss, probably the latter.

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 01 Mar 2016 10:15

Zeiss Reflex Sight

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 01 Mar 2016 10:50

Where is the trigger for this grenade launcher?

member_22539 · Post by **member_22539** » 01 Mar 2016 11:26

^I think it is a button like thing on the side of the grenade launcher attachment. Definitely not a trigger. I think its on the other side.

Happy to be corrected if wrong.

member_20453 · Post by **member_20453** » 01 Mar 2016 14:20

jamwal wrote:

http://www.zeiss.com/sports-optics/en_d ... sight.html

Lovely little Zeiss sight, IMO this is the ideal sight for Police/Paramil and Infantry, its relatively inexpensive (between $500-600), is water proof, has a hybrid power supply of solar/battery and Zeiss is known for cutting edge optics. Weight is low and since its compact it can be used on various weapons big or small.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 03 Mar 2016 00:08

name the gun

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 03 Mar 2016 02:25

Beretta MX-9

Does not work half as good as it looks. We should have gone for desi maal...

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 03 Mar 2016 03:14

I can't believe we have 70,000 of these sorry a$$ machine pistol. Why BSF went for this worthless sub-machine gun. In picture complete patrol party is using it.

Their friends across the border still use AK-47 and G3s, much higher power/range/accuracy.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 03 Mar 2016 03:24

perhaps we don't want to kill the pakees

ArmenT · Post by **ArmenT** » 03 Mar 2016 05:49

Sid wrote:I can't believe we have 70,000 of these sorry a$$ machine pistol. Why BSF went for this worthless sub-machine gun. In picture complete patrol party is using it.

Their friends across the border still use AK-47 and G3s, much higher power/range/accuracy.

It replaces the Sterling SMG and MP-5 in BSF service, which are also submachine guns and this is much better than them. There are submachine guns and there are rifles, two different classes of weapons. User picks the requirements for each. AFAIK those guys are fairly happy with it. There was one small burp in the procurements where a batch of something like 550 guns shipped with machining marks, but BSF complained, Beretta sent someone to verify and ended up shipping a replacement batch. Other than that one burp, haven't seen anything else.

member_20453 · Post by **member_20453** » 04 Mar 2016 18:25

Some initial batches of the MX-4 has quality issues and were quickly resolved after Berretta was alerted to the issue, subsequent batches have been of excellent quality and the guns work brilliantly. I had fired the CX-4 and MP-5 civilian variants in the US couple of years back and the Berretta is certainly the better weapon, its lighter, has a tighter sight allowing for quicker target acqusition, even in simple snap-shooting practicse I was able to find the target far more often than the MP-5. Quality is great, the weapon is quite reliable and can be quite easily converted to fire the venerable .45. BSF should do the same conversion, would turn it into knock out weapon.
I for one think the NSG should replace their MP-5s with the MX-4 deploying the .45 cal rounds.

habal · Post by **habal** » 04 Mar 2016 20:35

look at the quality of this maal

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 04 Mar 2016 21:54

rapid fire recoil is quite high.. watch it, and this can add to inaccuracy.

habal · Post by **habal** » 05 Mar 2016 06:52

recoil and instability in full auto is a given but for such a compact machine gun (full auto), the recoil was very less, i thought. Looking at slow-motion clips of rapid fire. Maybe the stock is in good position and in line with bore and helps in reducing recoil.

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 05 Mar 2016 22:47

MCIWS and cornershot

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 05 Mar 2016 23:13

Sid wrote:I can't believe we have 70,000 of these sorry a$$ machine pistol. Why BSF went for this worthless sub-machine gun. In picture complete patrol party is using it.

Their friends across the border still use AK-47 and G3s, much higher power/range/accuracy.

It was UPA gift to thier motherland, it was schemes like these where funds were prioritised over LCA, Arjun and Dhanush.

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 06 Mar 2016 07:53

Roughly Rs. 2000 crore worth of 9mm SMGs were purchased, each of which was roughly 5 times the cost of INSAS. in fact, per chaiwala, the budget of Para Military/Central Forces was increased so much, they were finding it difficult to find ways to waste it.

Note:- Buying a license to manufacture or developing a 9mm SMG would have cost around only Rs 10 crores. Recently OFB has reverse engineered 9mm MP-5 SMG but now ZERO orders for indigenous products.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 10 Mar 2016 10:32

From twitter, Manipur policeman with Excalibur.

rkhanna · Post by **rkhanna** » 10 Mar 2016 15:03

INSAS looking TFTA in TFTA hands

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/sli ... 302934.cms

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 10 Mar 2016 17:27

habal wrote:look at the quality of this maal

SaiK wrote:rapid fire recoil is quite high.. watch it, and this can add to inaccuracy.

If you want to look at a really light weight and low recoil platform, check out the latest SiG MCX. Can be fit to AR-15/M-16/M-4 lowers, comes with a folding stock. Incredibly TFTA stuff.

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 10 Mar 2016 17:28

Sid wrote:I can't believe we have 70,000 of these sorry a$$ machine pistol. Why BSF went for this worthless sub-machine gun. In picture complete patrol party is using it.

Because Deutchistan won't sell them Mp-5 due to hooman rights violations. Also the reason why OFB made the Anamika.

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 10 Mar 2016 17:31

uddu wrote:
MCIWS and cornershot

This looks like the older design with flip up sights on the upper instead of gas block and 45 degree gas port. Newer pictures are all with 90 degree gas port and front sights on the gas port instead of upper.

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 10 Mar 2016 17:34

Septimus P. wrote:
jamwal wrote:
http://www.zeiss.com/sports-optics/en_d ... sight.html

Lovely little Zeiss sight, IMO this is the ideal sight for Police/Paramil and Infantry, its relatively inexpensive (between $500-600), is water proof, has a hybrid power supply of solar/battery and Zeiss is known for cutting edge optics. Weight is low and since its compact it can be used on various weapons big or small.

It's been in service for a very long time even in the Army. Here's a picture of Gen. V.K.Singh holding up an INSAS with this sight back in 2011.

A Sharma · Post by **A Sharma** » 10 Mar 2016 19:18

Advanced weapons, tech to help cops counter terror

As per the state budget alloca tions, under the head police modernization, Gujarat police would get Rs41 crore in 60:40 centre-state allocation ratio, out of which Rs10.25 crore would go towards procuring AK rifles (Avtomat Kalashnikova) and Excalibur, the upgraded variant of INSAS rifles made in India.

Officials said that the state armed police have conducted trials for Excalibur and have suggested a few design changes, after which the procurement would be made.

member_20453 · Post by **member_20453** » 11 Mar 2016 13:47

It's been in service for a very long time even in the Army. Here's a picture of Gen. V.K.Singh holding up an INSAS with this sight back in 2011.

[/quote]

True, but it's not standard across the board, as of now only Ghatak Units, NSG seem to have it. It's a worthy candidate as a standard sight to be used by all para-mil, police and infantry on carbines, Rifles, SMGs across the nation.

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 11 Mar 2016 15:05

I find it odd that Army has not committed itself fully for adoption of Weapon sights (like Holographic sights, optics etc) across the board.

member_22539 · Post by **member_22539** » 11 Mar 2016 16:43

^Because they are costly. Good ones cost as much as an assault rifle.

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 12 Mar 2016 00:54

A Sharma wrote:Advanced weapons, tech to help cops counter terror

As per the state budget alloca tions, under the head police modernization, Gujarat police would get Rs41 crore in 60:40 centre-state allocation ratio, out of which Rs10.25 crore would go towards procuring AK rifles (Avtomat Kalashnikova) and Excalibur, the upgraded variant of INSAS rifles made in India.

Officials said that the state armed police have conducted trials for Excalibur and have suggested a few design changes, after which the procurement would be made.

So the state police forces (Manipur and Gujarat) are procuring Excalibur before the Army does?

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 12 Mar 2016 10:56

News from Maharashtra

Rs 100 crore shot to smithereens as bullets do not fit the barrels

It has been brought to the chief minister's notice that bullets worth Rs 100 crore, purchased during the erstwhile Congress-NCP's regime, have been lying unused as they do not fit the standard-issue rifle that police officers of the state use.

The direction follows a letter addressed to the CM by city BJP chief Ashish Shelar, in which he has brought up the matter of the 7.62x51mm NATO belt ammunition — there are some 4.80 lakh of them.

He said the bullets have ended up with junk at the compound of the State Reserve Police Group Two in Pune.

No guns for this cartridge "The reason for non-utilisation is shocking and scandalous. The entire state does not possess a single rifle which can fire this ammunition. The ammunition is used in medium machine guns (generally used by the military), it is not used by any police force in any state in this country,'' said Shelar.

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 12 Mar 2016 20:58

^^^
Is that 100cr for 4.8lac rounds or 4.8lac "belts" with x number of rounds each? If its the former, it translates to around 2K per round

. A lot of the post 26/11 home ministries budget hike has most definitely been scammed off like this.

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 12 Mar 2016 22:08

Arun Menon wrote:^Because they are costly. Good ones cost as much as an assault rifle.

We can provide infantry across the board with daytime optics for something like Rs 500 crore per annum in five years, ie cost of only 20 T-90 tanks per annum.

member_22539 · Post by **member_22539** » 13 Mar 2016 09:22

^True, but who cares about that. It doesn't bring in any kickbacks. Margin is too low, even if volume is high.

Rampy · Post by **Rampy** » 13 Mar 2016 10:02

jamwal wrote:

From twitter, Manipur policeman with Excalibur.

Not sure if its Manipur police, the shoulder label says BMP ( Bihar Military Police), most of them are Nepalis and HQ is in Ranchi