Discussion on Indian Special Forces

[rkhanna]

per TOI
1st captain - on entry

Just out of curiosity while we are talking about Ballistics Shields etc. Do our CT/HRT units even have FlashBangs? Huge advantage for an entry team.

[srin]

There was a video of Capt Raghu Raman posted on one of these threads where he described the NSG operation in Mumbai attacks. Clearly mentioned using stun grenades in flushing out the rats in the Taj.

[rkhanna]

e described the NSG operation in Mumbai attacks. Clearly mentioned using stun grenades in flushing out the rats in the Taj.

NSG yes.. but Para SF?

[Zynda]

The kill ratio of our forces vs pigs in recent encounters exceeding even 1:1 is something which hurts many of us. I understand that these pigs might be the elite or whatever but we gotta do whatever it takes to minimize the fatalities of our armed forces. Like many of them have mentioned, perhaps use of Ballistic Shield during the initial screening could have saved some of the lives. Even during Pathankot attack, I did not see any pics of our forces using ballistic shields. And this point was brought up way back during 26/11 event itself...how ballistic shield is needed for any force in CQB situations.

Heck these are manf in India itself: http://www.mku.com/BallisticShields.aspx

[shaun]

how come those pigs are in one piece !!!


It all started with the attack on CRPF convoy bus . I know every one over here is aware of these troop transporters , well still..here present CRPF/ BSF buses


and what we can provide with them ,

Army trucks

and what we can provide

and i am not talking about these , the idle one in such hot zones

convoy protection jeep

and what they should have


This post is just to show , how our foot soldiers are dealing with the daily threats they encounter with those pieces of junks!!

[Prem Kumar]

Guys: please note that there were

1) More than 100 people who had to be evacuated
2) Its a large campus. Lots of places to hide. More than 50 rooms had to be cleared, one-by-one
3) Precise number of terrorists unknown

It was a mini-Mumbai 26/11 style attack.

The forces might have been rushed in to ensure minimal civilian casualties or prevent an extended hostage situation. This might have resulted in SF casualties.

Kudos to the troops for minimizing civilian deaths. Yes, the same ungrateful civilians who tried to storm the encounter site because the terrorists were their co-religionist brothers

Kudos for cordoning off the encounter site & preventing the stone-throwing mob from disrupting operations without resorting to lethal force. If I were in their shoes, I'd have poured lead on the mob. The restraint shown by our forces against ungrateful civilian pigs is admirable.

[Shameek]

Such a tragic loss of young brave Indians. RIP.

[jayaaren]

From what we can glean from reported on TV and posted here, 3 Para (SF) KIA - Capt. Kumar, Capt. Mahajan & L.Nk. Prakash were hit during room entry. Similar to what happened to Hav. Singh at Nariman House and to NSG personnel who fixed the terrorists in the guest & conference rooms at Taj as written by Sandeep Unnithan in Black Tornado. While I am sure the respective training teams at both NSG & Para (SF) would have evaluated the tactics used, any counter tactics that they developed may have been hampered by the lack of equipment such as ballistic shields, thermal imagers etc

[member_20453]

RIP the brave who laid down their life.

What ever happeneed to the brilliant chilli grenades, unmanned armed bots to take down such pigs? Didn't the last offcial video from SF show them deploying armed bots? Their death was so easily avoidable.

[sudhan]

Looks like the the first dead pig (black outfit) got a few rounds aimed at his junk.. Other pigs got their crotches shredded..

What a price to pay for 3 useless sacks of cr@p--

[Singha]

the second pic with broken wood beams and bricks indicates a explosion in that area imo.

[srai]

Again a kind request (posters/mods): Please don't post gruesome pictures of the dead directly in your posts. Better to put a link with a warning that the images are graphic. Those who want to view can then willing do so.

[vasu raya]

we can expect more of these situations in future, some options as far as buildings go is, using Netra sort of micro UAVas to fly inside the bldg and setup a motion detector attached to the roof, its purpose would be to detect entry and exit from the rooms on that floor, with each floor having these installed all the doorways are under watch reducing guess work. As an example there is typing on virtual keyboards, the layout is a laser projection and a camera detects the keystrokes by the finger position on the virtual keyboard, here the rooms are identified and a video feed is sent.

on the outside the LCH with its EO ball positions itself so it has the entire side of the building in its FoV, like point and shoot cameras identifying faces, the software would allow identifying windows and doors that are projected as small cells on a large screen and as soon as motion is detected in a window, the corresponding cell is automatically enlarged for a detailed view, finger tapping on a point in the cell, the chin mounted gun is aimed there, one can attach a UBGL as well to the gun

btw, the EO ball can on a ground vehicle too as long as the FoV spans the entire building side allowing snipers to aim

[jayaaren]

Kanhaiya Kumar from JNU booked for sedition, Umar & others arrested for sedition ... don't want to get into what actually happened, were the videos doctored or not etc.. But this is crystal clear and is the height of sedition... well that's a light word .. I'd term this as treason - while our best & brightest were fighting & dying .. so called citizens of the country were cheering for Paki terrorists

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 098979.cms

I'd really like to see arrests in Pampore and mind you all of this has not made news .. certainly not on any of the mainstream news channels.

[Surya]

http://www.ibnlive.com/blogs/india/lt-g ... 07067.html

From Lt Gen Syed Ata Hasnain regarding the Pampore incident

[raghava]

http://www.ibnlive.com/blogs/india/lt-gen-syed-ata-hasnain/encounters-in-jk-reiteration-of-the-last-mile-philosophy-14405-1207067.html

From Lt Gen Syed Ata Hasnain regarding the Pampore incident

Very good read this...

The Lt Gen explains a lot of things which we here at BRF have been discussing/worrying about since the Pampore incident.

Though he explains why the IA did not blow up the building with explosives, I wish he could have also explained why an RCL/RPG/ATGM kind of weapon was not used in such incidents.

...however articulate the reasoning, it is still painful to see elite SF martyred just to catch some pigs...

JMT

[A Sharma]

As per Maroof Raza on Timesnow debate, both SF officers were not posted in J&K but were there as attachment to learn the state of operations and could have easily stood by and let the CRPF, Police, Army handle it. But they jumped in seeing the situation, showing the true valor of our men.

RIP

[vasu raya]

Whoever is playing the crisis manager in a standoff situation, have the ability to broadcast active shooting scene message to all cell phones within the area to alert the potential hostages? if they are in a building asking them to barricade their doors

[rkhanna]

Just to give Context to our discussion on the Equipment Gap of SF soldiers and resulting Casualties.

Below are excerpts from citation of the Recent MoH given to a Navy SEAL in Astan. A SEAL platoon rescued an American Doctor held in a one story building by the Taliban (2012)

The SEALs rushed to the doorway and Byers ripped down the six layers of blankets that covered the entryway. Another member of Byers' SEAL team, Chief Petty Officer Nicolas Checque, entered the building and was immediately shot. Checque later died from his wound.

When Byers (MoH recipient) entered the building, he engaged in hand-to-hand combat with one guard, then flung his body on top of Joseph to shield him from the firefight in the room.

While shielding Joseph (Hostage), Byers fought with another guard and was able to pin him to the wall.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/entry/edward-byers-medal-of-honor_us_56d4747ae4b0871f60ec16cb?section=india

HRT against Hardened Jihadi/Insurgents is messy messy business. Not Perfectly choreographed Oscar worthy moments.

[rkhanna]

http://theweek.com/articles/443052/are-americas-special-operations-forces-crisis

Very Interesting Read of the Crisis within the American SOF units. - Burnout, Suicides, PTDS, High Death Rates - Parallels can be drawn with the overuse/dependence even the Indian Army has on SF units in Kashmir and the body count being built up.

[Karan M]

This a-hole who was rescued dilip joseph went onto engage in a controversy over why oh why did they shoot the terrorist who shot the SF operator.

[sum]

We lost a 21 SF officer yesterday in Manipur ( Chindits blog :

Maj Deswal .. 21 SF was leading an op in 59 Bde AOR .... Contact with terrorists wherein 01 killed and one suspected killed in action ... He sustained 02 gun shot wounds in stomach and right thigh.. And succumbed to his injuries ... Was a commando dagger

Maj Amit Deswal was commissioned on 10 Jun 2006 into Regt Of Arty. After his basic service he recognised that his calling is somewhere more adventurous.. He opted for Special Group at first but finally opted and was selected and marooned into the coveted Special Forces. .

He joined the elite unit in Jan 2011.He was physically robust which was reflected in his performance at the 'Ghatak Course ', where he secured ' Commando Dagger - Best Student' at 8 yrs of service .

He got inducted in Manipur for Op Hifazat II in Jan 2016.

[member_20453]

We lost a 21 SF officer yesterday in Manipur ( Chindits blog :

Maj Deswal .. 21 SF was leading an op in 59 Bde AOR .... Contact with terrorists wherein 01 killed and one suspected killed in action ... He sustained 02 gun shot wounds in stomach and right thigh.. And succumbed to his injuries ... Was a commando dagger

Maj Amit Deswal was commissioned on 10 Jun 2006 into Regt Of Arty. After his basic service he recognised that his calling is somewhere more adventurous.. He opted for Special Group at first but finally opted and was selected and marooned into the coveted Special Forces. .

He joined the elite unit in Jan 2011.He was physically robust which was reflected in his performance at the 'Ghatak Course ', where he secured ' Commando Dagger - Best Student' at 8 yrs of service .

He got inducted in Manipur for Op Hifazat II in Jan 2016.

Sad RIP brave soul. Shot to the stomach and right thigh, this man would have survived if he had proper armor. Why oh why do they continue to operate without armor.

[Singha]

Probably heat. These are long patrol missions not short strikes where one can suit up like gign

Thigh has large arteries and veins which if not quickly clamped will bleed a person to death

[rkhanna]

If you have seen "Western" Combat Body Armour it is designed to protect your Vital Areas on the Chest and sits high on the Mid-riff. Plenty of room for a Bullet to hit the Stomach.

[Shameek]

Discovery Programme on Special Forces

On Independence Day, the television channel Discovery India has launched a new show on how India’s paratroopers are made. The trailer of India’s Paratroopers – Earning the Badge is meant to inspire awe about the prowess of the men who go through an intense six months of gruelling probation to make the cut.

There’s just one problem with the video: the men shown in it are not paratroopers. They belong to the Special Forces units who, although a part of the Indian Army’s Parachute Regiment, were never paratroopers to begin with. At the heart of this grand obfuscation lies a tragic tale of a forcible marriage and the abuse of a much-cherished nomenclature that has haunted India’s military capabilities for decades. Discovery India’s inability to distinguish the Special Forces from the routine paratroopers furthers that deliberate attempt to obliterate identities, which are detrimental to the rich legacy and history of India’s Special Forces.

[Mollick.R]

I missed the episode, was travelling.
Can any member provide a download link ?
Thanks in Advance.

[Rahul M]

I keep on dreaming that Meghdoot Force will be resurrected one day; and SF will be moved under it from paras.

[pkudva]

Can some one share the link of Discovery channel documentary on Indian Special Forces. I missed it.

[Lalmohan]

slightly OT but the book "battle at sangshak" recounts the formation of the indian para brigade and their first blooding at sangshak - a side battle to kohima/imphal which basically held up the japanese for several days and prevented their concentrating on schedule for the main battle

[pattnayak]

Hi everyone
so glad BRF is back. Felt lost for a while. Thank you to everyone who worked hard to get it up and running again. Thankfully my id was not lost.

For those who missed the Discovery special on Indian Special Forces, here are the links

Part 1:


Part 2:


Part 3:


Part 4:


Part 5:


Credits to the original youtube poster for recording and posting it online. Don't know how long the links will stay up though.

[rkhanna]

Thanks pattnayak for finding the links. As a reference point the Documentary follows 23 "Probies" for Selection into their first 3 month Probation. Post This probation they earn the SF tab - next round of Probation earns them the Balidan.

Interestingly even in the first Probation these boys are going through Level I Language Training alongside Assault Courses, Demolition, Navigation. All this whiles in excruciating physical discomfort. The 3x 1.8km Circuts left me quiet uneasy lol. IMO that seemd worse than the 100km Fast Tab

[Rahul M]

thanks a lot pattnayak !

[Mollick.R]

Thanks a lot pattnayak Saar
Jingo Khush Huaa.

[vikassh]

After watching the videos, there was one face that was coming to my mind again and again as if I've seen that face earlier. A google search lead me to this pic. I think it has been posted on BRF as well some where.

http://s55.photobucket.com/user/sniperz11/media/Jawanops.jpg.html

And thanks a TON for posting the videos.

[pkudva]

Thanks.I was literally struggling to get the Links from last week.
The way I could see them Train ( Only which were shown on Discovery) except the confidential ones showed how strong mentally and physically they become.

Secondly, I loved when one of the Training Officers say" when enemies come to know that SF are there then literally see God.That is the terror in their Mind about SF"

Felt Pride in them while they spoke to live a Life for the Country. Thanks ones again.

Jai Hind!!!

[Kashi]

Some unconfirmed and conflicting reports on a Para-SF strike inside Myanmar

#Nagaland: Indian Army Para troopers hit an NSCN-K camp located inside #Myanmar, near Throilu village of Mon district.

Kunal Biswas at DFI has some interesting details on this "operation"

[Karthik S]

Seems to be the operation that happened few days back. No news of it in the public. Some in DFI claiming we lost 4 5 para troopers.

[Kashi]

Seems to be the operation that happened few days back. No news of it in the public. Some in DFI claiming we lost 4 5 para troopers.

Actually it was NSCN-K that claimed that we had lost 4-5 Paras (they made similar claims after last year's raid as well). Army and Assam rifles have denied it.

Kunal Biswas on DFI too says that no troops were lost, but the operation had to be aborted since the local and some in national media media (tipped off by Khaplang group) jumped the gun on a possible raid into Myanmar.

[Vatsal]

I am new to the forums. After seeing the videos on Para (Special Forces), I realised that in the firing range, a large cutout of a pakistani ranger commando was used as target

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... oldier.jpg