Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-Jan 24, 2016

[CRamS]

Sage advice from retd. group captain Murli Menon. But I would also challenge such stalwarts: its all fine and dandy to fault our politicians for their weak-kneed approach to TSP, but at the same time, while courageous folks like him will lay down their lives if need be, they must also present robust military options to Indian leaders so their decision is not a binary one: attempt to punish TSP and lose 1000s of troops like him and set back India by decades, or the current impasse which he himself laments.

http://www.rediff.com/news/column/let-u ... 160405.htm

India cannot aspire for great power status unless our leaders truly understand the meaning of national security. We need to take a call on this sooner than later or else the nation will not forgive its masters of their combined destinies.

Cricket can wait and so can people to people contacts, book launches and Bollywood camaraderie. Let us get down to brass tacks on our counter-terror mission.

[arun]

X Posted from the Islamism thread.

Case of sexual grooming and rape in Rochdale, UK, of Non-Mohammadden children by mainly Mohammadden men with roots in the Islamic Republic of Pakistan comes to an end with stiff prison sentences being handed down:

Ten Pakistani men sentenced for child sexual exploitation in UK

[CRamS]

RudradevJi, after reading your post, I am reminded of an encounter I had with Frank Gaffney (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frank_Gaffney) who was a "foreign policy expert" at one point, but now even in US he is a discredited clown with his nutty Islamophobic conspiracy theories. It was during a terrorism conference, where I also met the late B. Raman.

Anyway, he did admit that TSP enjoys more closeness among US policy makers and mind you this was after 9/11, 2006 time frame, and TSP was USA's lover boy before the relationship went downhill. But this guy was critical of TSP and told it like it is. He further told us that guys like him advocate closer relations with India, but they need something from India which they can sell to political honchos. I asked what would that something be. And the f$cker had the gall to say that India was behaving "haughtily" with US by refusing to put troops on the ground in Iraq. Apparently, he lobbied Indian politicians and was left exasperated (yeah right, Indian politicians have to humor some 2-bit clown like him). Now think about it, there are those who want Indians to die to make up for their imperialistic gang rapes in places like Iraq, and if India doesn't do that, they continue to molly coddle a terrorist abomination like TSP, and India is the bad guy.

Anyway, my point being that all this tamasha for international (read American) optics, how much does it actually fetch India? And that too at the cost of India's H&D at the hands of TSP, not to mention lives lost etc? Or lets say, India adopts what I suggest in viewtopic.php?p=2003027#p2003027, how much would India lose from what it ostensibly "gains" now?

[Pulikeshi]

For all those asking "why talks?" and "why invite the JIT to do tamasha in Pathankot"... I have only one answer. It is diplomatic theatre.

Your analysis is spot on! Always enjoy reading what you have to say.

RudradevJi, after reading your post, I am reminded of an encounter I had with Frank Gaffney ...
Anyway, he did admit that TSP enjoys more closeness among US policy makers and mind you this was after 9/11, 2006 time frame, and TSP was USA's lover boy before the relationship went downhill. But this guy was critical of TSP and told it like it is. He further told us that guys like him advocate closer relations with India, but they need something from India which they can sell to political honchos.

CRamS - couple of points, one sharper than others, but nothing personal:

1. There are multiple layers to these onions - the US is not in a zero sum game between India and any other country. The US interest is to optimize its interest and its citizens interest - same same with any other sane country including India.

2. Your voice ironically sounds like that of the 'mango man' of India, but my two cents it comes from a need to establish superiority of India, a nagging suspicion that Indian politicos are compromised, and if only the Military had the brains to match their brawn and offered opinions or solutions to the pusillanimous politicos, and therefore an appeal to the US that it pursue Indian interests über alles! Pointing out hypocrisy - ala Arnab Gowsami - in what is really a game of realism requires the indulgence of strong pain medication.

3. Indian military victory over TSP may not result in a victorious outcome - as in break an egg, it is your omelette! Your three pronged prescription as PM - 1) get army/raw to give me an defensive offense strategy 2) Terror from TSP has to end for meaningful engagement - hey 3.5 please pay attention and finally 3) Terror and religion must not be delinked - is in my very humble opinion a complete misunderstanding on your part on what power is, and therefore what is strategy. I am not talking anything Chanakyian - merely offering you my feedback. TL;DR: 1) What makes you think offensive defense is not already being followed - will this be announce in a newspaper or tv show? 2) India needs TSP and the 3.5 support to exist - the more TSP implodes - the more ridiculous 3.5 look in their support of this abomination 3) If you sadly fall into those Hindus still trying to teach them Islam a lesson - please find yourself another means than the nation-state of India to pursue that outcome.

4. Indian focus has already shifted Eastward and Westward hop skipping TSP. The only danger in this strategy of tolerating pin-pricks and continuing the tamasha with diplomatic theatre is the patience of the Indian 'mango man' and their volunteers Military's losses. An aspirational India may not endure the pounding of its officers and pedestrians the way - chaltha hai - has carried on the Indian states traditional trajectory wrt strategy against TSP. This is the only place your caution has relevance to me in reading this academically!

5. India will never be a sup power in the Western or even any other sense. If some cards are played right, they seemed to be for now - there is still a snowball's chance in hell to see her emerge as a power in her own right. That is the only outcome the Chanakyians can argue about...

[JE Menon]

CRamS, you seem to worry a lot about what the Americans or the rest of the world thinks about us, about "honour" and "dignity" - as if someone is conferring it upon us - and about perceptions in general. I suppose that is your prerogative.

No country in history has faced an onslaught like India has faced in the last millennium, and while we are certainly to some extent at fault for the reality that we were divided amongst ourselves, that is the reason why we were defeated, not the reason why we were attacked. We were attacked because others wanted to take away our wealth, and to impose their absolutist faith systems upon us at the expense of the existing civilisational heritage.

That has not stopped. In 1947, virtually the very same year that the last colonial enterprise ended, efforts to set in motion the next one began - this time a combination of the same powers in a different configuration (Anglo & Islamic; namely US/UK + non-NATO Ali Pakistan). And India, this time infinitely more united by a joint effort by the leaders of the independence era (in particular Sardar Patel and his political and bureaucratic allies) began a very weak but nevertheless reasonably robust defence of the civilisation, even though a synthetic leadership was foisted upon us by others and by ourselves (in view of the attraction for white skin and dynasty).

In the last years of the 20th century and the opening years of the 21st, the closing of the 2nd millennium and the beginning of the 3rd (with history's usual impeccable sense of both timing and irony), the first signals emerged of the paradigm beginning to shift, literally with a bang, or several. Subsequently, every year has been one of positive change, to the extent that we are now the go-to country for many things of consequence, certainly an ally everyone of consequence wants to have, and surely at the most optimistic point for the civilisation in at least a millennium.

For the first time, the civilisation itself is getting a chance to express itself in full flow and self-confidence now that the leadership is not ashamed to proclaim itself a product of the civilisation of Dharma and what is now called Hinduism for ease of use in English. And, again, with tentative but not uncertain steps, it is beginning to do so. That is being done in our way, which is not necessarily by the metrics and images that are conjured up by words and expressions and rhetoric in particular, that reek more of some strange personal need for validation by other countries, and civilisational constructs.

Nothing wrong if one feels that way, but sometimes that needs to be pointed out.

[Aditya_V]

quote="svinayak"]
Pakistan's real behaviour - state does not need to behave like humans. Pak strategy is only one. Put India down and trouble India. They have other problem of their own. They act as if they are part of India and then change direction and act as different state. This is deliberate strategy and UPA could not figure this out.
Pak should be treated as a faceless state and policy must be made for this faceless state./quote]

That is BS, UPA are not Dumb, they figured it out but these guys have long term arrangements abroad. They really don't care about India as a nation, they didnt mind losing 1/3rd Kashmir to Pakis in ceasefire deal in 1949 or anther 17% to China in 1962 with the same policies.

They arre well funded from abroad, their next gen is abroad, this country is just an old cow to milked till it can and slaughtered after that- thats how they view it.

So according to you this is no correct and UPA is not dumb.
The explanation is ridiculous and laughable.

Laugh and ridicule all you want, but it is not some group of people being "Dumb" but it was selling the nation down the drain for personal gain.

[Bhurishrava]

I dont remember people giving chanakian explanations for MMS eunuch behaviour. Here we are calling Pakistani investigators to investigate Pathankot attack who go back and call it a staged attack and calling it diplomatic victory.

Not much difference between Jyoti Malhotra and BRF.

[SSridhar]

MEA maintains studied silence - The Hindu

Amid criticism from the Opposition, of the government’s Pakistan policy, the Ministry of External Affairs maintained a studied silence a day after Pakistan High Commissioner Abdul Basit said the Comprehensive Bilateral Dialogue (CBD) was “suspended” and laid the responsibility for reviving it on India.

The Congress on Friday hit out at Mr. Basit’s comments as a “clear betrayal of peace” and said “the Modi government’s flip-flop policy vis-à-vis Pakistan has allowed Pakistan to set the agenda in the dialogue process.” However, Mr. Basit’s comments were noted for being “adverse and unhelpful” by several commentators that The Hindu spoke with.

The Hindu has learnt that Mr. Basit’s comments have been noted as he himself called the press conference to make the combative comments and was not caught off-guard. Analysts said that Mr. Basit, who is known for his repeated courting of the Kashmiri separatists, has shown with his latest comments that he is “out of line” of the Ministry of Foreign Affairs in Islamabad and more “in line” with the hardline sections of the military establishment of Pakistan.

Mr. Basit had specifically mentioned that there was no need to send a National Investigation Agency (NIA) team to Pakistan to interrogate people relevant to the Pathankot terror attack.

However, a day later, Pakistani officials tried to soften diplomatic statements and said that Mr. Basit’s comments were taken out of context as he had only “given the position on the ground in a factual way.” They also denied that Pakistan’s Ministry of Foreign Affairs (MOFA) had countered his line as the statement from the MOFA had been issued hours before the press conference and not after, as some reports claimed.

Satyabrata Pal, former Indian High Commissioner to Pakistan, also felt that there was no difference between Mr. Basit’s “suspension” remarks and the remarks by the MOFA spokesperson. “Basit stated the factual position which is that there are no Foreign Secretary-level talks at the moment. There should not be a big controversy as he has pointed out the reality of the moment,” Mr. Pal said.

However, The Hindu has learnt that Mr. Basit had created an undiplomatic moment by talking about the arrested ex-official of the Indian Navy especially since both sides are in talks over the issue.

The High Commissioner of Pakistan had on Thursday held India responsible for destabilising Pakistan, citing the arrest. Some commentators pointed out that Mr. Basit’s job throughout the press interaction appeared to be geared at fanning more trouble between both sides. {For those who watched the video, there was a constant smirk on his face when he answered questions}

To the U.N. again

India will again approach the United Nations to put Jaish chief Masood Azhar on the list of proscribed terrorists, this time after incorporating inputs from the NIA. The NIA, which is probing the Pathankot terror attack has been asked to furnish details gathered by it regarding Azhar’s role in the entire conspiracy. India will use this information to renew its bid to include Azhar’s name on the U.N. list, which China blocked last week.

A senior official said Pakistan had backtracked from its commitment to allow an NIA team’s visit there after finding that the agency had enough evidence to nail ISI’s links with terrorists involved in the Pathankot attack.

[Akshay Kapoor]

Shiv,

I respect your thought process and posting integrity, and usually agree with your posts a 100 pct but on your recent analysis that average Indian does not understand Pak and being weak and that our establishment does not understand Pak and is weak, I would like to say something.

I have been fortunate to have had intimate experience of rural and small town India right from childhood (via our troops who all come from very humble and rural backgrounds), living in small cities (dad was in the army, had relatives who had very humble backgrounds), and visiting heartlands of rural UP (family were in IAS, IPS , irrigation etc). Then I did college in a large metro and again experienced rural and small town India through our troops, and relatives ...this time even more intimately.

1. I will say with all the emphasis at my command - the rural, small town, lower class, lower middle class and to a large extent even middle class Indian understands Pak enough to be fully supportive or at least neutral to any action large or small against Pak. There is NO problem on this front.

2. Metros, upper class - yep there maybe a problem here but I believe they are too small to matter in the face of a decisive government and general public opinion.

3. Chatterati, DDM - huge issue, but can be bypassed. Remember 2014 elections ?

4. Establishment - You are hit the nail on the head here - politicos, South Block (IAS and IFS and maybe IPS for intelligence services). Rare exceptions aside, they have ZERO understanding or desire to understand. Incompetence coupled with universe sized egos and huge power. And 100 pct risk aversion. This is the stumbling block.

So please don't blame the average Indian for the failing of the leadership. Throughout our history the average Indian has fought with courage without asking for much but its our leadership that has let it down - from Jaichand, to countless Rajput princes, to the Peshwa aspirant who got British involved in the Maratha Wars in 1818, to Sikh leadership traitors in Anglo British war, to Nehru.

Modi has a mandate and every PM without exception regardless of mandate has control on defense and foreign policy. Many options have been given...some by me and other on BR, and some by far more competent people than us like Maroof, Gen Hasnain, Gen Bakshi and many others. Options were given by the service chiefs after 2001, 26/11, Pathankot (yes I heard that options were given then) and continue to be given.

Its up to the leadership to take those options. If Modi listens to South Block and the babus he will be told not to do anything. If he listens to professionals, there are a lot of options. His choice.

I sign off by reminding you of Op Meghdhoot - when Indian took Siachen days before Pakis did. Options were given to a PM and and a PM with balls took them. Rest is history.

[Akshay Kapoor]

I dont remember people giving chanakian explanations for MMS eunuch behaviour. Here we are calling Pakistani investigators to investigate Pathankot attack who go back and call it a staged attack and calling it diplomatic victory.

Not much difference between Jyoti Malhotra and BRF.

+ 1000, but I would say not much diff between Jyoti Malhotra and a very small minority of BRF

[Aditya_V]

There is a huge difference between constant Biryani Lunches, Electrifying a Village in Pakistan, Trying to give Siachen as a peace park, completely tying the hands of commanders to respond to cross border fire, Lets close LOC fence and invite Paki army, Lets withdraw AFSPA, Pakistan is a victim of Terrorism, India is responsible for Baluchistan etc. None of this has happening now.

[SSridhar]

. . . and and a PM with balls took them.

How ironical, Akshay ji.

[shiv]

So please don't blame the average Indian for the failing of the leadership.

No. That was never my intention. Please don't misunderstand what I am trying to say.

It is, as you say the leadership that is the problem. I am not sure that the political leadership understand Pakistan. They do not see how Pakistan plays the communal card in India through our democratic processes. If they understood they would lead the people of India in the right direction. If you look at issues like say healthcare, family planning, contraception or pulse polio - there is broad based understanding of these issues.

But when it comes to Pakistan too many "leaders" have been talking shit. I must exclude the current BJP leaders from this - because I have not yet heard them "talking shit" about Pakistan - even if recent actions have been doubtful. I think Modi, Parikkar, Shah and Swaraj have generally said the right things.

But go back 2 years and you find a really sorry bunch of people. Chidambaram, Shivraj Patil, Digvijay Singh, Mani Shankar Aiyer, AK Antony, Kapil Sibal, Manmohan Singh, Sonia Gandhi. the list makes me weep.

Some of these people were not even elected, but some certainly were. The people who elected them obviously cannot be blamed, but it is up to us to recall what these people did and make it public, because local constituencies who elected these people will probably not understand the mistakes made by these leaders.

The above list as a who's who of the most powerful people in India and every one of them has done things to appease Pakistan and let off terrorists. Digvijay Singh wanted a judicial inquiry into the Batla House encounter while Salman Khurshid spoke of how Sonia Gandhi wept upon hearing of the Batla house encounter. Chidambaram defended Ishrat Jahan. Truly what I read on Twitter today is right. Ishrat Jahan is beti, Dawood is bhai, but Bharat cannot be Mata. Mani Shankar Aiyer is a snooty SOB who loves Pakistan more than he can relate to India, and has written a book about "Knickerwalas". Tell me Akshay, how many of the people of India know the contempt with which these "leaders" hold the ordinary Indian whose father or brother is serving in the defence of the country. RSS may wear loose khaki shorts. How many ordinary Indians whom you speak of think that the RSS wears "loose silly looking chaddis" or refers to them laughingly as knickerwallahs? Shivraj Patil was casually dismissive of the Mumbai attacks. We (our people) have elected these idiots

We have a system where the leaders don't know Pakistan or support Pakistan and the people don't know their leaders. Any people who know what such leaders are doing would never elect them again.I can see your point when you say that most Indians understand enough about Pakistan to be supportive of action, but they are unable to elect leaders who will take that action because they do not know their own leaders. Pakistan needs to be complimented for getting through to the ordinary Indian despite these treasonous toxic "leaders" we have elected.

People like Mulayam Singh Yadav have are no less guilty in playing a dangerous Muslim card when it comes to terror. Pakistan recruits disaffected Muslims from India, or uses locals to harbour terrorists and when they are arrested, people like Mulayam and Digvijay say "Hindus are intolerant and they want to blame Muslims". When you have leaders like these - attacking Pakistan is described as a "diversion" of Hindu hatred towards a Muslim country. I am as secular as the next guy. In fact I am as secular as any member of the Indian armed forces. But I bring up these issues because the Pakistan question is deeply linked to electoral and communal politics in India.

As long as Muslims are told that they need to be scared of Hindus they will be told that they must vote for secular leaders. And what are the secular leaders doing? They are defending Pakistani actions. Calling the Batla house encounter fake. Calling Ishrat Jehan an innocent victim. Samjhauta Express is Hindu terror. When the deaths of Pakistani terrorists in India are termed as anti-Muslim encounters by elected Indian leaders, the wind is taken out of the sails of anyone who wants to attack Pakistan. Even the armed forces will be called "communal". Patriotic people cannot initiate action against Pakistan. The elected leaders need to do that. And because they are Pakistan apologists, what you see is what you get

This actually gets me back to the first post I made in this series of long posts. I stated that Modi is playing a domestic card. He is not playing at Pakistan at all. I support him fully. He is systematically neutralizing all the accusations about Muslim hate leading to hatred of Pakistan and false blaming of Pakistan in order to kill Indian Muslims. That is what our elected leaders have been saying. It is hight time we put an end to this nonsense. I do respect my countrymen, but I must insist that I have more information about the actions of elected leaders and how they mislead the electorate than most ordinary Indians. No disrespect. I believe that when 75% plus Indians can understand what needs to be done about Pakistan, they will make it an election issue and stop electing motherfugkers who are in it for power and not the nation. Pakistan will be re-booted.

[Peregrine]

X Posted on the India-US Relations Thread

'US has much bigger global agenda with India than Pakistan'

NEW YORK: United States has a much bigger global agenda with India in contrast to Pakistan, and Washington has moved far beyond looking at its relations with the South Asian neighbours as linked, according to US Defence Secretary Ash Carter.

"We have much more to do with India today than has to do with Pakistan." Carter said Friday. "There's important business with respect to Pakistan, but we have much more - a whole global agenda with India, an agenda that covers all kinds of issues."

He was answering a question from the audience during a speech at the Council on Foreign Relations about how the growing US ties with India will impact Washington's relations with Islamabad.

In his address on the eve of leaving on a visit to India, Carter said US relations with India was "destined to be one of the most significant partnerships of the 21st century." He said there would be "exciting new projects" and a "strategic handshake" with India encompassing military cooperation and defence co-production.

"The days are gone when we only deal with India as the other side of the Pakistan coin, or Pakistan as the other side of the India coin," he said. "I know that there are those in India and Pakistan who are still glued to that dyad way of thinking. But the United States put that behind us some time ago."

While describing Pakistan as "an important security partner," he said, "We have a big set of issues having to do with the border with Afghanistan, where we continue to operate; with terrorism, both on the territory of Pakistan and also obviously cross-border into Afghanistan, including affecting US service members there." He added, "I'm sure I'll be asked about it in India."

"It's long past - we're long past the point in US policymaking where we look at the India-Pakistan dyad as the whole story for either one of them," he said

Cheers

[shiv]

Got this one slightly wrong in my post above.

When our elected leaders support this view, any Indian leader who wants to attack Pakistan needs to watch his future. And god forbid if his Pakistan adventure does not lead to a long term resolution, the people who are represented by the sentiment of this image will one again be elected "leaders" in India. With what consequences for our nation I dread to think
.
.
.
.
.

[RajeshA]

But when we really need to do something against Pakistan, our lobby is there for us. It will do whatever it can. As CRamSji suggests, it will probably never be able to overwhelm Washington and create a sea-change in US diplomatic posture towards the subcontinent. But it can stymie those who would want more US involvement in favor of Pakistan and against India... at least for some time. Our calculus is that whatever objective we want to achieve against Pakistan, at the occasion and place of our choosing, can be achieved within the period of time that our lobby buys us. That's all. Once that time period expires it's up to us to present the fait accompli... or face consequences that will make our overt anti-Pakistan action a case of diminishing returns to one extent or another.

For some, the atmospherics and behavior of current GoI may seem very much like that of UPA, but there is one good reason to keeping it that way, and you have pointed this out well.

It is to have maximum control over the windows of opportunity at a time of our choosing for overt action. These windows would be of short duration.

Overt hostility does diplomatic damage and negatively affects the covertness of covert action. Covert and sub-conventional actions should remain within the red-lines of the other. The longer one can keep it that way, the longer lasts the inability of the foe to show the campaign as a war being waged and to mobilize own public opinion for war as well as to successfully sell the de-facto siege as a war to its patrons. Also it acclimatizes the other party to accept a constant level of pain, without freaking out.

Pakistan has nuclear weapons (or so they claim). Pakistan has tons of Jihadists. Pakistan has some influence over Muslim networks on our side of the border as well. And Pakistan has 3.5 friends.

Excessive anti-Pakistan rhetoric from the GoI can mobilize all these assets of Pakistan, which is not really in our favor. However keeping these assets at a lower level of activation, allows GoI to do more actual harm to Pakistan, i.e. if the GoI is interested, and I believe this GoI is interested. So the window-dressing of talks and engagement keeps the assets of Pakistan confused, disarmed and not mobilized as much as possible.

Now I am fully in favor of GoI to start hollowing out Paki Army but I can agree with NaMo's sweet pitch to a section of Pakistan, to Kashmir and to Indian Muslims.

But even as NaMo tries to keep the temperature down, India has to keep on hurting Pak through Afghanistan, Baluchistan, Gilgit, MQM, Bad Taliban, proxies, uninterrupted and uninterruptible border firing and any other way. Also I would hope for India to disable and destroy Pakistani Navy with as much deniability as possible: sabotage, smart mines, .... . This would allow India increased access to Balochistan's coastline.

[JE Menon]

Another question to ask whether, under Modi, a change has come to the quality of this particular statement famous on BRF:

Pakistan has 3.5 fourfathers (or forefathers or godfathers).

Is this true anymore, like it used to be in 2013?

Is that an achievement of the Modi government?

[SSridhar]

JEM, my feeling is that we have to wait for a couple of years for it to dwindle to 2½ Friends. With some luck, it may even become 1½ shortly thereafter. We need some patience. I would credit Vajpayee, Jaswant Singh, Man Mohan Singh & Modi for that. But, it is going to happen. Insh'a Alla'h.

[Akshay Kapoor]

Shiv,

these 'leaders' - Mulayam, Sonia, are not in power at national level. For many reasons including in large measure because of these statements !Modi is, primarliy because he was expected to be tough.

By linking Pak to Indian Muslim agenda and restraining himself he plays into the hands of the very same Mulayams, Dig Vijays and Mani Shankar Iyers he and BJP shouted about when they were not in power. He is letting the voiceferous minuscule minority take him away from what the majority want.

Shiv, its like saying when Shivaji came to power that 'I will not act because the muslims are too powerful and I am traumatised by them'. If he had done that, Indian history would be very different. But he stuck to what was right and he won !

You are traumatised by what people say about the knickerwalas. But damn it Shiv the knickerwalas are in power ! With a huge mandate. in 2015 some people I know who hated RSS started thinking it was fashionable to be RSS. Why ? Because they (we) won. Nothing succeeds like success Shiv. Basic tenet of human nature. You win - 100 khoon maaf. You dither...hyenas will come at you.

My thesis is that Modi will get grass root support and votes if he acts and will loose the next election if he does not. Arun Shourie and I exchanged a few emails just after the 2014 elections where I said that all of the above + MSM and Pak are going to go after Modi. I said that he needs to act fast to hit Pak and secure the external space so that he can create internal space for reform and development. Arunji fully agreed and said 'it all depends upon the team Modi picks'.

[jagga]

Illegal Pakistani migrants sent back from Greece arrive in Turkey under EU deal

Two Turkish passenger boats carrying 136 mostly Pakistani migrants arrived from the island of Lesbos in the Turkish town of Dikili, accompanied by two Turkish coast guard vessels with a police helicopter overhead.

Evil Turks!

[Peregrine]

Illegal Pakistani migrants sent back from Greece arrive in Turkey under EU deal

Two Turkish passenger boats carrying 136 mostly Pakistani migrants arrived from the island of Lesbos in the Turkish town of Dikili, accompanied by two Turkish coast guard vessels with a police helicopter overhead.

Evil Turks!

They must be Pakistani Lesbians.

Cheers

[shiv]

You are traumatised by what people say about the knickerwalas. But damn it Shiv the knickerwalas are in power ! With a huge mandate. in 2015 some people I know who hated RSS started thinking it was fashionable to be RSS. Why ? Because they (we) won. Nothing succeeds like success Shiv. Basic tenet of human nature. You win - 100 khoon maaf. You dither...hyenas will come at you.

OK I see what you mean. In fact my statements have amounted to saying that Modi has his eye on 2019 more than Pakistan, but as you say if he kicks Paki butt, 2019 may be in his pocket without extra drama.

[saip]

The word lesbian is derived from the name of the Greek island of Lesbos,

Wiki

[Falijee]

Taking Advantage Of "Panama Papers Leak", Immy Desperate To Topple Badmash

Panama leaks: Imran hints at protest in Raiwind

LAHORE: Chairman of Pakistan Tehreek-i-Insaf (PTI) Imran Khan on Friday said a decisive moment for the nation has come and now a protest will be held in Raiwind instead of Islamabad’s D-Chowk, ARY News reported.

he PTI chief, while talking to media here, said the prime minister should have stepped down in the face of corruption allegations. He castigated that accusations are being leveled against Sharif family, but their ‘courtiers’ are furnishing explanations.
The skipper demanded the PM to tell how his son is residing in a house worth Rs 6.5 billion.
Imran Khan also mocked PM Nawaz Sharif by imitating his accent during address with the nation.
Moreover, he said that only an inquiry commission comprising of Supreme Court (SC) judges and forensic experts can rightly probe the allegations surfacing after Panama Papers leaks.

Wondering if this too, is fauji manipulated , as last time ?

[Falijee]

" Brother " Scamming "Brother" In Name Of Malsi
New York travel agent in court over Hajj scam

NEW YORK (Web Desk) – A New York travel agent appeared in court Thursday charged with conning more than $350,000 out of Pakistani immigrants who paid to go on Muslim pilgrimage to Mecca or fly home.
Junaid Mirza, 50, who operated travel agencies in Brooklyn and one previously located in the Empire State Building was charged on 31 counts that include scheme to defraud, money laundering and grand larceny, Daily Mail reported.
He faces up to 15 years in prison if convicted, prosecutors said.
“Many of the victims were hardworking Pakistani immigrants who trusted the defendant and were cheated out of a lifelong dream of taking a pilgrimage to Mecca,” said Brooklyn district attorney Ken Thompson.

Mirza allegedly owned travel agencies that specialized in selling travel packages to Saudi Arabia and airline tickets to Pakistani immigrants from July 2011 to September 2015.
All Muslims are expected to perform hajj — a pilgrimage to the Saudi city of Mecca — at least once in their lifetime.
Mirza advertised discounted trips in local Urdu-language newspapers and in pamphlets distributed in mosques, New York prosecutors said.

The victims, who included taxi drivers and home health aides, allegedly paid more than $6,000 per person for a hajj package, but prosecutors said Mirza pocketed the cash and failed to book the airline seats.
Some victims only found out they had been conned when they arrived at the airport, including a bride who missed part of her wedding festivities in Pakistan as a result, prosecutors said.
Other victims were a parent traveling with three young children who were stranded at an airport in Pakistan when they were told by the airline that the defendant had never purchased their return flight.

Crooks like him deserve Sharia Justice

[Avinash R]

Nepal police arrests Pakistan man; seizes Rs 10 mn fake Indian notes
http://zeenews.india.com/news/world/nep ... 74068.html

Last Updated: Friday, April 8, 2016 - 20:56

Kathmandu: One Pakistani national was among six persons arrested on Friday in Nepal for their involvement in a major fake currency racket and Indian currency notes with a face value of Rs 10 million were seized from them.

Pakistani national Nadin Mohmad and his five Nepalese accomplices were arrested from the famous tourist hub of Thamel, four kilometers from Kathmandu, police said today.

Rs 10 million fake Indian currency notes with Rs 500 denomination were seized from them, they said.

"We have been successful in arresting them after following them for a long time. The gang were involved in printing and supplying fake Indian notes," said an official of the investigation team.

They are believed to be members of a big gang involved in the fake currency racket, the police said.

Necessary legal action is being initiated against them by taking them into custody.

Bakistani birathers caught doing their usual business of fakery.

[Falijee]

Too Hot To Handle ! Two ex-CJs have refused to head judicial commission on Panama Papers: Nisar

ISLAMABAD: Interior Minister Chaudhry Nisar said on Saturday that two former Supreme Court chief justices had refused to head the judicial commission instated to probe claims made by the Panama Papers regarding offshore assets belonging to the Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif's family. ( Badmash Sharif always assigns "difficult cases" (like this one !) to his "favourite henchman" )

"So far the revelations coming out of the Panama leaks are just allegations. Russia, Britain, Argentina, and other countries have dismissed them as lies. It has only been the Prime Minister of Pakistan who took notice, addressed the nation, and announced a judicial commission to investigate the claims," said the federal minister.

The also minister said that for four days he had been trying to determine what offshore companies are. "If I did not know what offshore companies are, how would the nation at large know?"(Height of ignorance and/or incompetency ?)

Pakistan Tehreek-i-Insaf chairman Imran Khan had earlier called on the National Accountability Bureau, Federal Board of Revenue, and the Election Commission of Pakistan ─ but not FIA ─ to investigate offshore property held by members of the Sharif property.
"Any officer or team that Imran Khan picks will be given the authority to carry out investigations of the claims in the leaks. There should be no levying of accusations now."

PTI chairman Imran Khan welcomed the Interior Minister’s offer to nominate any FIA official and has requested to nominate Dr Shoaib Suddle to head an independent commission to investigate the Panama Papers’ claims.
"Shoaib Suddle ( of the BB murder fame ) holds great professional credibility and expertise in investigating white collar crime, and he should be given full authority to carry out an independent investigation into the Panama Papers," said Khan in a press statement.

"We demand an empowered commission under the chief justice of Pakistan, if the commission is not empowered, then there is no benefit of having one (judicial commission)," said Imran while addressing the chair in the assembly.
"We will not let this issue be shoved under the carpet."

Immy will achieve his objective, if he has support of the Army

[CRamS]

I dont remember people giving chanakian explanations for MMS eunuch behaviour. Here we are calling Pakistani investigators to investigate Pathankot attack who go back and call it a staged attack and calling it diplomatic victory.

Not much difference between Jyoti Malhotra and BRF.

Count me as one of those who pilloried MMS, and up to some point, gave ModiJi the benefit of doubt. But please, don't compare me with a despicable prestitute like Jyothi Malhotra, and other DDM cowards.

Something like what I am about to say cannot be said by an official ModiJi supporter, but it comes down to a question of trust. One has to look at MMS's actions Vs ModiJi's in the overall context. Thus, if you couple MMS's weak kneed surrender to TSP with his obsession on "Hindu terrorism" based on a few incidents, he has given the game away. For him, TSP terror is not the evil it ought to be, to any patriotic Indian. MMS was a little puppet in the hands of his handlers that includes US/UK and Sonia Gandhi. His world view is "Sooth Asian", not Indian. His back door negotiations with MushRat to barter away Kashmir valley under the grouse of "joint sovereignty" is a give away of his "Sooth Asian" worldview. As I said, none of these things can be aggressively proclaimed by say BJP official in public, he will be pilloried as a fascist and MMS will be a martyr. But its a question of trust.

ModiJi on the other hand, has his heart and soul that is Indic, Dharmic, and someone who is proud and flaunts his Hindu civilizational roots. He is not an apologist for Hindus. So those who are Indian nationalists and not "Sooth Asian" cut a chord with ModiJi. With this context, I agree with you, whatever ModiJi has done to date visa vi TSP is no different from what MMS did in terms of actions. But in wider context of Indian interests, ModiJi is not going to sell away Indian interests like MMS did and would have.

My own view is that ModiJi understood India's military weaknesses visa vi TSP after his 56in election bragging, and so he improvised a different strategy. And I will admit he went too far with his making out with Badmaash so openly, and inviting ISI scum bags (and as others have narrated, India's TSP policy is deeply linked with India's domestic fault lines, and ModiJi was in party playing to his domestic compulsions). He erred badly, but with the right intent. For his haters, his actions are no different from MMS's, and they are right on the face of it. But one needs to look deeper to see the difference, and that cannot be discussed in public.

[Akshay Kapoor]

Exactly Shiv sir

[RajeshA]

My own view is that ModiJi understood India's military weaknesses visa vi TSP after his 56in election bragging, and so he improvised a different strategy. And I will admit he went too far with his making out with Badmaash so openly, and inviting ISI scum bags (and as others have narrated, India's TSP policy is deeply linked with India's domestic fault lines, and ModiJi was in party playing to his domestic compulsions). He erred badly, but with the right intent. For his haters, his actions are no different from MMS's, and they are right on the face of it. But one needs to look deeper to see the difference, and that cannot be discussed in public.

Question arises why did NaMo allow those JIT guys to go and visit Pathankot, even if they were not allowed to check up on the airbase?

There are a few opinions to it
- he was made a fool, and he doesn't understand the Paki deviousness
- he was trying to prove he is a nice guy and not a warmonger to Muslims at home and Western leaders
- he did not see any other options like going to war with Pakistan

I think the second opinion has some credibility and third opinion may be a consideration.

I however do not see NaMo acting under compulsions but more to a plan. Indian diplomacy from time immemorial has always given the enemy the chance to make their stubbornness clear. Krishna did so when he asked for 5 villages from Duryodhana for the Pandavas. Angada did it when he told Ravana to return Sita to Rama. This is an age old script.

Before one bludgeons the enemy black and blue, one gives the enemy a last chance to show his true colors.

I personally don't think that we would be bludgeoning Pakistan very openly and vocally, but we would be doing so definitely. Pakistan would feel the pain, and some of that misery would trickle out in the public sphere.

In the past, I have advocated that India should thrash Pakistan openly, and make it lose its echandee publicly. However as an intermediary solution, I, speaking for myself, am willing to see Pakistan feel the pain even as GoI retains a "polite" posture, does not make loud threats. Often governments make loud threats but they are only to make jingo hearts feel warm and happy but there is little follow up and often the enemy is left alone or given only a scratch. That is one thing I don't want - GoI making empty threats, GoI just playing to the jingo gallery. I am more interested in real pain for TSPA, even if I don't get the satisfaction of GoI taking credit for that pain.

[Pulikeshi]

There are a few opinions to it
- he was made a fool, and he doesn't understand the Paki deviousness
- he was trying to prove he is a nice guy and not a warmonger to Muslims at home and Western leaders
- he did not see any other options like going to war with Pakistan

This is one way to look at it - policy in India is not made by the guy on top ~ but leaders do bring in flavor.
To this extent - as much as BRF will suffer my commentary - there is perhaps little difference in end outcomes
between different political dispensations - MMS, Modi, etc. on the TSP policy.

In the Pathankot case - it seems Modi was walked down the path of reciprocity - as in give the rope to Nawaz
and see if the TSP HArmy lets him hang himself or enables change... TSP HArmy being the scorpion had to bite!
Now this comes off as a 'taphad' to Modi from Nawaz, but it is the weaker party that hits out weakly!
IMVHO this puts the TSP HArmy on record as a deal breaker...

India should continue to support Baloch, POK, Sind and others crushed under the jack boot of TSP HArmy!
It is not so much options Modi has, it is the option that TSP should be allowed to have...

[shiv]

One question that comes to my mind is, "Why on earth did shitistan agree to send a JIT team" They could have rejected all accusations. But think there is some pressure on Pakistan to admit that men have come from Pakistan, even if they claim they don;t know how the men may have come.

Of course I know that Pakistan has, for long been demanding "joint probes". The chootzpah here is amazing as in "Harrumph we have very competent investigators and we need them to work on cases to solve them" I wonder if Pakis thought that they would have an easy excuse to get away - expecting India to refuse a joint probe, and then saying "See? India is afraid of a joint probe because they have cooked up everything to blame Pakistan"

India agreeing to a joint probe may have surprised them but I am sure they thought they would go along for the ride. they demanded access to the air base and they got it. But in exchange they agreed that they would not let any security men be interviewed and that an Indian team would then go to Pakistan. Maybe they figured that the actual visit would not take place and that there would be little evidence to present.

As it turned out they got more than they demanded. Apart from proof of Paki medicines and packets - I saw the most peculiar report in the news. The Pakis were given names and addresses of the dead men. How? Apparently, after the dead men's faces were publicized, sources in Pakistan came up with these names. Huh? Sources in Pakistan? That should get the Paki army very angry indeed. The idea tickled me.

Anyhow the Pakis simply backed out of their end of the bargain. So what?

As I see it, there will be more attacks. In fact two turdistani soldiers of Poobah were killed yesterday. And the attacks will be blamed on Pakistan. And pressure will be put on Pakistan to explain/investigate. It is definitely pressure that made them agree to a "joint investigation". But the next time the "joint investigation" game cannot be played. They will no doubt come up with something equally outrageous but their credibility is crumbling. The only surprise is that they had any credibility at all. Sadly they do. There are people who believe things that Pakis say.

Ultimately the Paki army has to come under pressure. Unless the Paki army is punished we cannot have much movement

[vishvak]

India counters Pak envoy's assertion, says both countries agreed on reciprocity

"MEA would like to clarify that on 26 March, 2016, before the visit of the JIT, the Indian high commission formally conveyed to the Pakistani foreign ministry that the Terms of Reference 'are broadly agreed to with the proviso that these would be on the basis of reciprocity and followed in accordance with extant legal provisions'.

This is the official stand of India.
From link

"It is very difficult for me to say. But at this stage... the whole investigation is not about question of reciprocity in my view. It is more about extending cooperation or our two countries cooperating with each other to get to the bottom of the incident," Basit said in response to a question on India's formal request to Pakistan to allow access to a team from the National Investigation Agency into Pakistan to take forward the probe into the Pathankot attack.
..
Basit said, "There is no meeting scheduled for now. I think at present the peace process is suspended. India is not ready as yet," Basit said, adding that "we can only resolve issues through dialogue".
..

From Reciprocity not just agreed upon by two nations, but part of global norm

Home Ministry sources added that in matters of cooperation on terror probes, “sovereign assurance of reciprocity is an accepted principle internationally”. A senior official said this was also enshrined in the UN resolution 1373 that deals with cooperation on terror.
“Both India and Pakistan are signatories to the resolution. So even though no legal assistance treaty exists between the two countries, they are bound to engage on such matters on a reciprocal basis,” the official said.

In other words, pakis have no standards but have enough puki fanboys to sell the idea that Pakistan is a normal country and its jihadi army/ISI are normal people.

[Chandragupta]

ModiJi on the other hand, has his heart and soul that is Indic, Dharmic, and someone who is proud and flaunts his Hindu civilizational roots. He is not an apologist for Hindus. So those who are Indian nationalists and not "Sooth Asian" cut a chord with ModiJi. With this context, I agree with you, whatever ModiJi has done to date visa vi TSP is no different from what MMS did in terms of actions. But in wider context of Indian interests, ModiJi is not going to sell away Indian interests like MMS did and would have.

+1000

What MMS did was out of his service to his masters who had non-Indian interests in their minds & an anti-Hindu/Indian ideological stand. In that way, MMS was acting for the interest of the western powers and Islamists. What Modi is doing is furthering Indian/Indic interests within the constraints he has inherited from the decade long rule of anti-Indians over India. So yes, while I agree that Modi is showing same weakness in dealing with Pakistan as MMS did but the intent is 180 degrees opposite and there is absolutely zero possibility of any kind of compromise on even an inch of Indian territory.

I also don't think that whatever said & done, India will ever wage war on Pakistan even with Yogi Adityanath as the PM. I think India as a nation is not ready for it and until a large mass of Indians furiously bay for Pakistani blood, no government will squander away economic growth. So even if Pakistan repeats a Mumbai, you may see Indians lighting candles and what not and still not reach a critical mass to force the government to got to war. That change in attitude alone may take generations.

[Prem]

JEM, my feeling is that we have to wait for a couple of years for it to dwindle to 2½ Friends. With some luck, it may even become 1½ shortly thereafter. We need some patience. I would credit Vajpayee, Jaswant Singh, Man Mohan Singh & Modi for that. But, it is going to happen. Insh'a Alla'h.

Both Chanakya and Shoon Xu recommend to make enemy friendless before starting the actual punishment.The day Paki are down to sucking up 1.5 Clown,that will be the day to Frown and Watch Wetting of Salwar Brown.

[Prem]

Noel Chinese No-Al Zeb & Paki Neval Display

Pak Navy successfully test-fires anti-ship missile

KARACHI: Pakistan Navy has conducted successful test of anti-ship missile ‘Zarb’.According to Pakistan Navy spokesman, the missile test fired from the coastal areas successfully hit its target.Naval Chief, Admiral Zaka Ullah said, the successful test firing of missile has bolstered capabilities of war assets of Pakistan Navy. New missile system is part of the endeavours for enhancing capabilities of Pakistan Navy.He said that Pakistan Navy defence has been further strengthened with test firing of anti-ship missile.

[A_Gupta]

The RSS is clueless about Pakistan:
http://swarajyamag.com/politics/the-rss ... mir-policy

Rakesh Sinha, it seems, is blissfully ignorant about what the various political parties of Pakistan said in their respective election manifestos about their stand on Jammu & Kashmir. Had he or any other RSS ideologue cared to monitor the 2013 general elections in Pakistan, they would not have said what Rakesh Sinha Sinha said to counter Major General (Retd) G D Bakshi.

[SBajwa]

by CRAMSC
And the f$cker had the gall to say that India was behaving "haughtily" with US by refusing to put troops on the ground in Iraq. Apparently, he lobbied Indian politicians and was left exasperated (yeah right, Indian politicians have to humor some 2-bit clown like him).

These are the opportunities in our neighbourhood (Afghanistan, Nepal, Bangladesh, etc) where we MUST SEND OUR TROOPS!! AT ALL COST!.. Iraq is little bit our of our sphere but in Afghanistan we must and should had troops when USA attacked after 9/11. We cannot ignore these god send opportunies otherwise we are having the same old issue of last Defense at Panipat!!! NO MORE BATTLES TO BE FOUGHT AT PANIPAT! that should be our resolve. otherwise we are done to all convert to Islam and continue Islamic agenda!

[Gagan]

Was in a temporary sanyaas for a few weeks, but felt the urge to put in my two cents.
These are views that I have long held and repeated ad-nauseum out here.

1. Pakistan is an artificial construct and a primitive society. All primitive societies are war-mongering - it takes intellectual refinement and development to be mercantile and even more so to practice diplomacy. These idiots have not done so for the 70 odd years they've been around, they'll never be anything but hostile towards every nation state.

This pattern is on view all over the world - the more primitive and underdeveloped a nation is, the more hostile and war-mongering they are. More of a chicken and egg scenario.

Now one can't talk peace or trade to onglu-monglu tribes with low IQ and tribal war-mongering ways hainji? Primitive tribes only respond to fear/terror/overwhelming use of power - then they bow down on their knees and worship the powerful god that trounced them.

2. India is at least a 0.5 fourfather of Pakistan. I notice that the other 3.5 fourfathers take a cue from India while dealing with Pakistan. If the CONgress is in power and they are mollycoddling the Terrorists, the other fourfathers go one step further. If India brandishes a stick and starts giving the terrorists a sound thrashing, the 3.5 WILL FALL IN LINE.

3. The US and China both leverage Pakistan to get gains in India. It is now our fault to let this abomination threaten us, and it is our fault to let these two use Pakistan against us. If we let this abomination exist for much longer, that day is not far off, when Russia will start to use Pakistan against us. (Russia is loosing defense contracts after defense contracts in India and will sooner or later start to leverage Pakistan against us).

4. I viewed with Interest what Maroof Raza stated on Times now. Exactly my thoughts. India needs to proactively destabilize that army. This has to be done at multiple levels and has to involve economic, political, diplomatic and other means.

5. If there is a major terror attack, I propose that a Brahmos simply land on suharwardy street's adjacent buildings. Let the pakis get the gumption to respond. They probably will not be able to respond, there will be much turmoil and loss of face for the fauj. They'll carry out some token counter military action, but the crapping in the pants and gross destabilization will be too much for them to recover from. The ensuing upheaval and churning will surely liberate some of the occupied states there.

6. I don't subscribe to the theory of them having a credible nuclear deterrent. That is an artificial construct with a number always greater than india to do an == in the hopes of ultimately doing a CRE on India. Until a CRE is not done on India, they, from time to time have meetings/treaties/fear mongering to delay Indian testing and complete breakout by India into a full fleged N power.
India is not going to become a permanent security council member until it demonstrates fusion weapons to full yield and then deploys them. There will be some sanctions and chest beating from the usual quarters, but the whole process of India's inclusion will be accelerated greatly. Currently everyone is dragging their feet, trying to delay the obvious as much as they can.
India is greatly feared in certain corners of the world.

In other words, the rest of the four-fathers will take a cue from India about how India manages Terroristan. The fourfathers will NEVER act to neuteralize terroristan, they are using it against India. But you can bet, if India gives their baccha a sound thappad, they'll rush in to do a cease-fire and calm things down, and try to save baccha from being completely exterminated. i.e. baccha can't really respond to India, because these four-fathers will also hold the baccha's hands down.

These are my thoughts, please pitch in with counters / refinements.

[Falijee]

Pakistani Christian woman sentenced to hang for blasphemy makes last appeal
Posted in Full

After four years on death row over blasphemy charges, Asia Bibi, a mother-of-five, makes emotional appeal to world community from windowless cell

A Pakistani Christian woman who was sentenced to death for blasphemy has filed an appeal in Pakistan's supreme court in a final bid to avoid execution.
Asia Bibi, a 50-year-old mother-of-five has been on death row since 2010 after being convicted of insulting Islam's Prophet Muhammad during an argument over a glass of well water. She denied the charges.
Her case has become an international cause celebre among rights groups and has even been offered asylum in France by the mayor of Paris, Anne Hidalgo, in the hope she can escape the death penalty.
An open letter from Mrs Bibi's husband, which includes an impassioned note of thanks from her windowless cell, is currently in circulation on the internet to draw attention to her case.
Last month a lower court in the eastern city of Lahore confirmed her sentence, apparently ending hopes it would be commuted to a jail term.

Saiful Malook, her defence lawyer, said on Monday that the Supreme Court appeal had been filed and was expected to take up to a year to be heard.
Last week, Mrs Bibi's husband, Ashiq Masih, wrote an impassioned open letter to the world community which was first published in the New York Times, calling for his wife to be set free and allowed to travel to France.
He relayed a message from his wife, that was passed to him on one of his monthly visits.
"My prison cell has no windows and day and night are the same to me, but if I am still holding on today it is thanks to everyone who is trying to help me. When my husband showed me the photographs of people I have never met drinking a glass of water for me, my heart overflowed," she said.

"Ashiq told me that the city of Paris is offering to welcome our family. I send my deepest thanks to you Madam Mayor, and to all the kind people of Paris and across the world. You are my only hope of staying alive in this dungeon, so please don't abandon me. I did not commit blasphemy."
The allegations against Mrs Bibi date back to June 2009, when she was labouring in a field and a row broke out with some Muslim women she was working with.
She was asked to fetch water, but the Muslim women objected, saying that as a non-Muslim she was unfit to touch the water bowl. A few days later the women went to a local cleric and put forward the blasphemy allegations.
Amnesty International has raised "serious concerns" about the fairness of her trial and has called for her release.
Pakistan has never executed anyone for blasphemy and has had a de-facto moratorium on civilian executions since 2008.
But anyone convicted, or even just accused, of insulting Islam, risks a violent and bloody death at the hands of vigilantes.

Badmash Sharif recently - under the guidance of his daughter, had been making all sorts of noises to make Pakistan a "liberal, God fearing , and a rule of law society"; maybe, he can now do something for this "poor woman" unfairly sentenced under the country's draconian blasphemy laws. But he is now more pre-occupied with defending his ill-gotten loot !