India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

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chetak
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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby chetak » 28 Apr 2016 18:42

Mort Walker wrote:Trump's statement is very ambiguous. Basically if you're a bad actor, a Somalia with nuclear weapons which TSP is, then you'll get US financial aid to promote more terrorism. What Trump wants is India's intel on TSP weapons production and deployment. The problem is the US will betray that information back to TSP via China via Russia. That would jeopardize India's sources.



Trump is nobody's fool. He is playing to the gallery and also helping himself to free air time at the cost of his opponents. Nothing anyone can do about it.

Modi is nobody's fool either. No one imagines that he has forgotten all the vile insults heaped on him by the US after the godra carnage.

The dramatis personae are not kindergarten kids. Everybody has got all the messages.

somewhere, sometime the dagger will briefly flash again, like it first did when FCRA was rammed through.
Last edited by chetak on 28 Apr 2016 18:46, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby RajeshA » 28 Apr 2016 18:44

India should make the case that a Pakistan split in 5 parts is the best guarantee, that Pakistan would give up its nukes, if they have any. A smaller Pakjab would not need nukes and would not have the resources to take care of their nukes.

Being a new kid on the block, Trump may be open to new arguments.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby NRao » 28 Apr 2016 19:05

Mort,

You are making a huge assumption that the US knows less than India. I very much doubt that.

On Hillary, all Pakistan has to do is donate 5% to the Clinton Foundation. Transaction fee.




But, more seriously, and I am aware this is not the thread, India needs to rely on herself. This bipolar world, Trump vs. Hillary are great intellectual M stuff. Not worth a dime.

Indians need to donate 5% of their black money into 4 funds: poverty eradication, literacy (and education), Def R&D and reusable energy. Maybe a small amount for supporting start-ups.

India needs to care for what the US pres thinks, certainly. But needs to act in her own interests. India lost a lot under MMS. Unfortunate, but time to pick up the $hit and carry on.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Singha » 28 Apr 2016 21:19

it seems General Dostum has been denied a US visa . he is the afghan vice president...for alleged war crimes including the killing of 100s of taliban by his jowzani militia

http://nation.com.pk/national/27-Apr-20 ... -vp-dostum

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby svinayak » 28 Apr 2016 21:27

Mort Walker wrote:Trump's statement is very ambiguous. Basically if you're a bad actor, a Somalia with nuclear weapons which TSP is, then you'll get US financial aid to promote more terrorism. What Trump wants is India's intel on TSP weapons production and deployment. The problem is the US will betray that information back to TSP via China via Russia. That would jeopardize India's sources.


Too much of Trump talks here. He will be just like other presidents but will withdraw from the global commitments. India has to watch for two things. Funding to faith based organizations and aid to military controlled rogue nations. He may be selective and strategic geo political commitments will be retained.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby ShauryaT » 28 Apr 2016 21:43

Looks like PM going to US to say good bye to Obama is confirmed. Return gift, joint address to US congress.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Karan M » 28 Apr 2016 22:24

chetak wrote:
Mort Walker wrote:Trump's statement is very ambiguous. Basically if you're a bad actor, a Somalia with nuclear weapons which TSP is, then you'll get US financial aid to promote more terrorism. What Trump wants is India's intel on TSP weapons production and deployment. The problem is the US will betray that information back to TSP via China via Russia. That would jeopardize India's sources.



Trump is nobody's fool. He is playing to the gallery and also helping himself to free air time at the cost of his opponents. Nothing anyone can do about it.

Modi is nobody's fool either. No one imagines that he has forgotten all the vile insults heaped on him by the US after the godra carnage.

The dramatis personae are not kindergarten kids. Everybody has got all the messages.

somewhere, sometime the dagger will briefly flash again, like it first did when FCRA was rammed through.


+1. Modi may compromise on some stuff but not core issues. He is doing good by India by keeping the Khan mumbling along.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Viv S » 28 Apr 2016 22:49

RajeshA wrote:India should make the case that a Pakistan split in 5 parts is the best guarantee, that Pakistan would give up its nukes, if they have any. A smaller Pakjab would not need nukes and would not have the resources to take care of their nukes.

Being a new kid on the block, Trump may be open to new arguments.

Lets assume we make that argument and lets assume they accept it. Then what? Who's going to bell the cat? The US certainly isn't going to come do it for us. They haven't laid a finger on North Korea, they certainly aren't going to lay one on Pakistan.

But lets assume Trump got elected, got on-board and somehow managed to swing the Congress to support the policy, again... how do you go about it? Any overt military action that effectively threats Pakistan's existence as a nation-state, risks the nukes in question actually being employed.

Lets again assume that covert action can be brought to bear resulting in an insurgency that the PA simply cannot cope with (unlikely) raging across regions (Baluchistan & Gilgit are relatively simple.. Sindh & KPK not so much), it still doesn't achieve the original aim of denuclearizing Pakistan.

Best case scenario, you have an embittered unstable Punjab with bleak economic prospects but a firm control over its nuclear assets. Worst case scenario, you get three of four new unstable nuclear powers sharing hundreds of nuclear weapons that may well get passed onto individuals without the 'normal' human instinct for self-preservation and a hankering for the promised luxuries of the afterlife.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Austin » 28 Apr 2016 22:51

ShauryaT wrote:Looks like PM going to US to say good bye to Obama is confirmed. Return gift, joint address to US congress.


Hopefully when addressing the Congress Modiji raises the issue of rights and discrimination of Blacks in America , Obama was more than happy to talk about Minority and Religious freedom rights in India when he visited here

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby rgosain » 28 Apr 2016 23:22

Austin wrote:
ShauryaT wrote:Looks like PM going to US to say good bye to Obama is confirmed. Return gift, joint address to US congress.


Hopefully when addressing the Congress Modiji raises the issue of rights and discrimination of Blacks in America , Obama was more than happy to talk about Minority and Religious freedom rights in India when he visited here


I hope he doesn't go, as all he will be doing is stroking Obama's ego which has become somewhat inflated in recent weeks following his European trip, where he lectured the Uk and germany on tolerance towards the faithful crew using the very speech he made in ND.
Modi as the only foreign leader banned by the US Congress, has actually diluted a lot of his personal cachet and mystique stemming from the 2014 election, by agreeing to meet with Obama so soon after being elected in May2014, and of course followed by the ill-timed Republic day invitation to Obama. I think he was badly advised by the IFS, and should have met with Obama in the car-park of the UN or on the sidelines of the G20 later on in that year.
Right up to 2014, there were many in the administration who wanted to issue a demarche or suggest that the election of Modi was a red-line for Obama, however the election put paid to that idea.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby ramana » 29 Apr 2016 00:04

rgosain, there are some bilaterals that need to be completed.
Power reactors, NSG and MTCR among others that BO had promised.
Hence NaMo has to go.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby rgosain » 29 Apr 2016 00:13

ramana wrote:rgosain, there are some bilaterals that need to be completed.
Power reactors, NSG and MTCR among others that BO had promised.
Hence NaMo has to go.

Ramana a decade ago maybe, but I do think India should walk away from these 4-letter constraints.
Why should India pay an extortionate amount for power reactors from the USA, when the US themselves haven't completed construction of any new reactors since 1979 following Three-mile Island. Without reprocessing these deals are dead.
At the NSG, PRC are black-balling India; ditto the Italians at the MTCR. Like the law of diminishing returns, India will have to make more concessions and costs which outweighs any benefits from joining these clubs.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby ramana » 29 Apr 2016 00:21

Its baksheesh and price for sitting outside the tent by Congress and UPA for all these decades.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby RajeshA » 29 Apr 2016 00:27

Viv S wrote:Lets again assume that covert action can be brought to bear resulting in an insurgency that the PA simply cannot cope with (unlikely) raging across regions (Baluchistan & Gilgit are relatively simple.. Sindh & KPK not so much), it still doesn't achieve the original aim of denuclearizing Pakistan.

Best case scenario, you have an embittered unstable Punjab with bleak economic prospects but a firm control over its nuclear assets. Worst case scenario, you get three of four new unstable nuclear powers sharing hundreds of nuclear weapons that may well get passed onto individuals without the 'normal' human instinct for self-preservation and a hankering for the promised luxuries of the afterlife.


Responded in the "Managing Pakistan's failure" thread.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Mort Walker » 29 Apr 2016 09:01

Austin wrote:
ShauryaT wrote:Looks like PM going to US to say good bye to Obama is confirmed. Return gift, joint address to US congress.


Hopefully when addressing the Congress Modiji raises the issue of rights and discrimination of Blacks in America , Obama was more than happy to talk about Minority and Religious freedom rights in India when he visited here


The invitation was from the US Speaker of the House Paul Ryan who is running as a moderate Republican from Wisconsin. Modi was invited so that Obama and Ryan could reciprocate Obama's speech to the joint session of parliament in New Delhi in 2010. It makes both of them look good from a foreign policy point of view. I don't expect anything from it as many members of congress will be notably absent.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby JE Menon » 29 Apr 2016 09:29

Modi will probably take a detour during the UN general assembly session. It's not a trip to the US just yo wish Obama good bye I think. If it is something special has happened and we'll find out in someone's book 10 years or more from now.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Mort Walker » 29 Apr 2016 09:30

ramana wrote:rgosain, there are some bilaterals that need to be completed.
Power reactors, NSG and MTCR among others that BO had promised.
Hence NaMo has to go.


Has there been any discussion about NSG and reactors. China is blocking India's entry to NSG, will the US support it and push its allies to do the same?

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Mort Walker » 29 Apr 2016 09:31

JE Menon wrote:Modi will probably take a detour during the UN general assembly session. It's not a trip to the US just yo wish Obama good bye I think. If it is something special has happened and we'll find out in someone's book 10 years or more from now.


Well, Modi should make it a point to meet with the leadership of both parties. Maybe meet Hillary and the Donald too.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby JE Menon » 29 Apr 2016 09:33

^^Not unlikely.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby RajeshA » 29 Apr 2016 11:54

Mort Walker wrote:
JE Menon wrote:Modi will probably take a detour during the UN general assembly session. It's not a trip to the US just yo wish Obama good bye I think. If it is something special has happened and we'll find out in someone's book 10 years or more from now.


Well, Modi should make it a point to meet with the leadership of both parties. Maybe meet Hillary and the Donald too.


Indian Embassy or PMO should offer Hillary only appointment times when she has some donor meetings or major rallies to attend. So pre-program tried but failed. With Mr. Trump, Modi should go ahead and have a major photo-op and discussion. Perhaps set up another rally of NRIs in Madison Square Garden and let Donald Trump come and address the Indians, in a similar way as to how David Cameron did in the UK. Look, if AIPAC can have Presidential candidates come and address the Jewish elite in the USA, why not the presumptive nominees for Presidential candidates of both parties come to attend an Indian rally or even raillah.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Karan M » 29 Apr 2016 12:05

Trump IMHO is very unlikely to win until and unless a bunch of horrible events occur so that amreekans become security minded. We are going to get Hillary as the next POTUS.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby RajeshA » 29 Apr 2016 13:38

Reports say, NaMo's address to the US Congress is on Jun 8th. That is ONE day after the last primaries are held, and everybody would be analyzing voting in California and New Jersey or reporting on victory speeches of Trump and Hillary.

NaMo's address would find absolutely ZERO traction in the US media, and all of the Congressmen would be having their minds on something entirely different.

June 10 would be a far better date. I can understand that Paul Ryan would want to try to divert people's attention from the win of Trump on that day, his political rival, and having NaMo over is just something convenient for him, but for NaMo there is nothing there. NaMo should say NO, thank you!

___

Karan M ji,

responded here.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby member_20067 » 29 Apr 2016 18:16

Over last couple of years I have observed house republicans getting increasingly impatient with Obama administration over funding big budget military hardware for Pakistan. I consider this to be a foreign policy success for Modi Govt.

US 'drops planned Pakistan F-16 fighter jet subsidy'

http://www.bbc.com/news/world-asia-36169079

The US will no longer subsidise the sale of eight F-16 fighter jets to Pakistan, a senior state department official has told the BBC.
The decision means that Pakistan will have to pay more than $700m (£480m) - two-and-a-half times the original cost - if it wishes to buy the aircraft.
It comes after Congress refused to approve funding for the deal.
Some US lawmakers had accused Pakistan of not doing enough to fight militants. India also objected to the sale.
However, Pakistan has argued that the jets are needed for anti-terror operations, and so the US should help with funding the purchase.
People close to the deal say it is highly unlikely that Pakistan will be willing to pay the full cost of the fighter jets, so it seems to be off for all practical purposes.
A spokesman for the Pakistan embassy in Washington, Nadeem Hotiana, told the BBC that arms sales were a long process and that he would not comment on the deal's current status.
"F-16s provide precision strike capability to Pakistan's ongoing campaign against militancy," he said.
"Pakistan believes that the threat from terrorist networks requires continued capacity building and both governments continue to work together towards this objective through a range of measures including the sale of these aircraft."

The senior US state department official, who asked to remain anonymous as he was not authorised to speak on the matter, says the Obama administration is still very much in favour of selling the fighter jets to Pakistan as it believes it is in the national interest of the United States.
However, Pakistan would have to bear the full cost of the F-16 fighter jets if it wished to proceed, he said.
The original arrangement had been that Pakistan would pay close to $270m, with the US foreign military financing budget paying for the rest.
However, top US lawmakers have expressed concerns over the US government's decision to sell the jets to Pakistan, saying they could be used against India rather than for combating terrorism.
Speaking on Wednesday, Congressman Matt Salmon said: "India-Pakistan tensions remain elevated, and some question whether the F-16s could ultimately be used against India or other regional powers, rather than the terrorists as Pakistan has asserted."

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby ShauryaT » 29 Apr 2016 18:25

JE Menon wrote:Modi will probably take a detour during the UN general assembly session. It's not a trip to the US just yo wish Obama good bye I think. If it is something special has happened and we'll find out in someone's book 10 years or more from now.
UNGA is in September? The trip is in June.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby JE Menon » 29 Apr 2016 18:42

Didn't realise that. Is it confirmed?

Could well be part of the annual summit meetings that are part of the new and improved relationship then, remember reading something like that... Will be surprising if he turns up twice in the US in one year though. Maybe no UNGA then.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Muppalla » 30 Apr 2016 06:08

^^^
It's a state visit.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Kashi » 30 Apr 2016 08:34

Xpost TSP dhaga

SSridhar wrote:Kashi, my fear (for which I am accused of fossilized thinking) is that LEMOA must bring us much, much more than scuttling just a single US transaction with Pakistan. We must see an open policy reversal. Otherwise, it is not a fair return. But, anyhow that topic has been beaten to death in the US thread and is OT here.


I agree with you SS, I was just trying to connect the dots together. Carter's visit did not see the agreement signed so probably the US deep state is pursuing the following line of thought-Let us offer the Indians the carrot of suspension of military aid to Pakistan and also invite PM Modi to address the Congress), oh and thrown in the possibility of "manufacturing" the teens (note only the teens NOT F-35) in India. That should set the ball rolling on LEMOA and once LEMOA is signed and dusted, we'll revert to our old ways and laugh at these Injuns...

I believe even someone as dimwitted as I can see this for what it is (or since I am dimwitted in these matters so I am probably seeing it all wrong). The question is does the GoI? Or are we missing the woods for the trees and there's much much more to LEMOA than is apparent?

I have been asking myself why is GoI getting into this act of wooing US, when it's evident that what GoI actively desire i.e. transfer of critical technology in civilian and military sector shall never materialise; US deep state is unlikely to abandon Pakistan at India's behest; Unkil's NGOs continue (and will continue to do so) foster trouble in India. Obama and his admin continue to pinprick us at regular intervals and if Hillary comes in, it'll only get worse.

Either GoI is clueless as to what to do next and running around like a headless chicken, or there are plans in motion, plans so Chankian that even the most enlightened folks are unable to fully grasp the essence of it.
Last edited by Kashi on 30 Apr 2016 08:51, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby chetak » 30 Apr 2016 08:49

No body is going to part with the crown jewels of "transfer of technology".

The sooner we understand this the better for us. No ifs and buts.

and before we run our supreme national interest into the ground in futile pursuit of unattainable objectives and sell ourselves down the river for peanuts, we should stop listening to overtures made by people who have the supreme national interest of other countries uppermost in their foreign minds.

when each is negotiating with their own supreme national interests foremost in mind, that makes for a meaningful dialogue.

we certainly do not need the amerkis here and in your face all the time.


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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Philip » 02 May 2016 11:53

The US has refused to part with N-reactor etch for the IAC-2 in an earlier media report. EMALS/CATS requires a huge shipboard powerplant which is best served by an N-reactor. The RN's 65K t new QE carriers use ski-jumps and the STOVL version of the JSF.
So where will the IN get its N-plant from? Thus far it has only been Russia that has been willing to part with N-reactor tech for the ATVs and has leased out to us another N-sub,an Akula-2. Unless the US changes its attitude towards India,it is inevitable that we will turn towards Russia to assist us if we need an N-plant for the next carrier.France is another option,but the CDG is of 45K t only and does not have the experience of building larger more pwoerful N-reactors which Russia has done for decades on its massive N-subs like the Typhoons,Oscars,etc.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Philip » 02 May 2016 11:53

The US has refused to part with N-reactor etch for the IAC-2 in an earlier media report. EMALS/CATS requires a huge shipboard powerplant which is best served by an N-reactor. The RN's 65K t new QE carriers use ski-jumps and the STOVL version of the JSF.
So where will the IN get its N-plant from? Thus far it has only been Russia that has been willing to part with N-reactor tech for the ATVs and has leased out to us another N-sub,an Akula-2. Unless the US changes its attitude towards India,it is inevitable that we will turn towards Russia to assist us if we need an N-plant for the next carrier.France is another option,but the CDG is of 45K t only and does not have the experience of building larger more powerful N-reactors which Russia has done for decades on its massive N-subs like the Typhoons,Oscars,etc.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Singha » 02 May 2016 12:55

the carriers do not have special big reactors I think. the nimitz class has 2 x 150MW. their submarines have 150mw reactors.

not sure if I am wrong here...perhaps the attached steam plants are far bigger on the carriers vs subs while retaining much the same reactor size x N

do subs run their reactors at much lesser load factor ?

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby NRao » 03 May 2016 04:45

Data point. Sorry if posted earlier (oldish report):

Indian Navy scopes out Freedom-class Littoral Ship at Malabar 2015

October 19, 2015: With Exercise Malabar 2015 under way in the Bay of Bengal, Indian Navy personnel have gotten a comprehensive first operational look at Littoral Combat Ship (LCS) USS Fort Worth, the most recent of the Freedom-class vessels built by Lockheed-Martin for the US Navy and one of the sales opportunities the Pentagon has been looking to push in India. Currently on a 16-month rotational deployment in support of the Indo-Asia-Pacific Rebalance, USS Fort Worth is tailor-made to patrol the region's littorals and work hull-to-hull with other navies, as it is now with Indian frigates and destroyers as part of the sea phase of Malabar 2015. The Freedom-class ships have been likened to corvettes in terms of size, but are known to bring to the table a host of capabilities the Indian Navy has been interested in. The navy in recent years has laid stress on inducting more offshore patrol vessels (OPVs) for rapid deployment to threat sites near shore with adequate firepower and agility to deter assymetric threats. The decision to field USS Forth Worth as part of the current exercise may be seen in the light of ongoing evaluation of that opportunity. The Indian Navy personnel on board USS Fort Worth also got a chance to witness MQ-8B Fire Scout unmanned helicopter operations, though this was not the first time they saw this.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Singha » 03 May 2016 06:04

@ 700 mil each quite cheap vs the Saryu.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby SSridhar » 03 May 2016 07:01

Delhi red-faced over U-turn on visa to U.S. official - Suhasini Haidar, The Hindu
A month after the Modi government refused visas to a U.S. delegation monitoring religious freedom, one of the delegation’s officials Dr. Katrina Lantos Swett, was permitted to attend the controversial anti-China conference in Dharmsala that ended on Sunday.

The incident has led to deep embarrassment in the government, The Hindu has learnt.

“I did travel to India and came back to the U.S. this weekend,” Dr. Lantos Swett told The Hindu over the telephone, confirming that she had indeed received an e-visa for tourism, and had attended the conference on China.

Adding to New Delhi’s discomfiture, within hours of her return to Washington, Dr. Lantos Swett released the latest U.S. Commission for International Religious Freedom (USCIRF) report, giving India a negative rating and keeping it on its watchlist of “Tier II countries”.

“As you know I wear two hats, both of the Lantos Foundation on Human Rights and the USCIRF. On this occasion I was not travelling as a representative of the USCIRF,” she explained.


On March 4 this year, the Indian Embassy in Washington had issued a statement saying the USCIRF had no “ locus standi ” to criticise India and there had been “no change in its policy” to deny its members visas.

Officials confirmed that they were aware of Dr. Lantos Swett’s visit, but refused to comment on how the prominent U.S. activist received a visa without prior clearance or red flags being raised over her status.

A senior official told The Hindu that there had been “no reversal of policy” on her visa, indicating that the fault lay in the visa and immigration departments for not having detected her application and for allowing it to be processed.

The official also indicated that there could be an overhaul of the visa granting process
, that came under fire after it emerged that several Chinese dissidents including Uyghur activist Dolkun Isa, who faces an interpol notice, had received visas which were later cancelled.

More questions for govt.


The government is likely to face more uncomfortable questions over why it granted a visa to Dr. Lantos Swett after denying entry to her delegation from the USCIRF only a month ago. In India, Dr. Swett attended the two-day conference in Dharamsala organised by U.S.-based dissident groups — Citizen Power for China and Initiatives for China — that are funded by the U.S. Congress-run National Endowment for Democracy.

Met Dalai Lama

Dr Lantos Swett reportedly also met the Dalai Lama at Dharamsala. Significantly, the USCIRF was responsible for the U.S. government’s decision to deny then Gujarat Chief Minister Narendra Modi a visa in 2005. Since 2009, India has been kept on the USCIRF’s watchlist, and the Commission has been consistently denied permission to visit India.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby UlanBatori » 03 May 2016 07:28

They need to replace some of the 2-legged donkeys with intelligent humans.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby SaiK » 03 May 2016 08:23

^with one leg always being suckled.

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Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby chetak » 03 May 2016 09:54

UlanBatori wrote:They need to replace some of the 2-legged donkeys with intelligent humans.



couldn't have been done without the c-system aiding and abetting.


Don't we have a no fly list or is that too much to ask for in a third world country??

Arjun
BRF Oldie
Posts: 4283
Joined: 21 Oct 2008 01:52

Re: India-US Relations : News and Discussion- II

Postby Arjun » 03 May 2016 15:46

Hindu American Foundation Releases Bullying Report
Report details the bullying and bias that Hindu American youths face in American schools as a result of cultural stereotypes and textbook inaccuracies.



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