Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

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rohitvats
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby rohitvats » 28 May 2016 13:00

Surya wrote:Shouldn't the army be more concerned with lack of SPH for its strike corps than mobile SAMs?

On one hand per Akshay and others its depending a lot more on IAF for fire support and then its wanting SAMs.

I would first get SPHs, wheeled AFVs etc before looking for "mobile" SAMs


Hello, stranger!

IA will get the Korean K-9 Thunder aka 'Vajra' SPH for the armored corps. Deal done.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Aditya G » 28 May 2016 14:29

What is the realistic penetration which IA Armour Corps? In nuclear environment IA may go for a salami slice approach. Does that reduce mobility requirements in favour of range?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby deejay » 28 May 2016 18:41

RV, the Spyder looks good for penetration by a formation smaller than a corps too, no? Or am I reading too much?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby shiv » 28 May 2016 19:11

Aditya G wrote:What is the realistic penetration which IA Armour Corps? In nuclear environment IA may go for a salami slice approach. Does that reduce mobility requirements in favour of range?

Doubt if IA will announce its intention by means of signals like this. They will leave options open for any eventuality.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karan M » 28 May 2016 20:14

vaibhav.n wrote:Karan,

The Spyder is highly unlikely to have fire on the move. Mobility you are right could also constitute a smaller logistic footprint.


I was asking about search on the move & track on the move. If you have both & can fire from an immediate short stop, need for fire on move is substantially reduced. Having said that TorM2's fire on move capability is useful against one class of threats, which may occur due to terrain masking which are pop up threats. Rare in flat terrain, but always possible in convoluted ones.
You can also mitigate against these by having mast mounted surveillance radars for greater LOS - eg 3D CAR, or Giraffe w/BAMSE.
See further, chances of surprise less, hence your AD are in place.

Anyhow, mobility is one thing which can also be affected by pack up & emplace. In that systems with less capable but lighter radars have the advantage, eg SpyDer. But Tor is by far the winner as it's fully deployed all the time.

On the other hand, IA may well point out serviceability issues with Russian gear in recent years - after all what us is so called mobility, if spares are missing. And so it goes.

More importantly the Spyder would naturally replace the SA8 Gecko.

Folks conveniently forget the role in which the Gecko was used and had TV cameras fitted to enable the system to remain in action even if the radar is being jammed or forced to shut down because of the threat of anti-radiation missiles. The Spyder's Electro-optic pod provides similar capability with an IIR missile.


ARMs - I suspect PAF's stock of MAR-1s will be used against IAF & PA will be told to manage by itself.

EW is a bigger issues

Well how many L-Band jammers or S-Band jammers or C-band jammers does any of our opponents have.

BAMSE- C Band Giraffe, K- band FCR
Spyder- L Band 2106 + EO
Tor - K band FCR, C-Band 3D + EO Backup

So, IMHO all are very survivable systems.

SpyDer's unique attribute is fire & forget making it very survivable plus the IIR missile, but overall Tor is a theoretically very capable system optimized for engagements against a range of targets & complete mobility.

Theoretical, because as with all things Russian, who knows what the logistics are.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karan M » 28 May 2016 20:34

rohitvats wrote:What Katoch said and what people are saying on this forum are two completely different things. Katoch said SPYDER being bought because Akash not mobile in the required sense and people are trying to present arguments as to why Akash fits the bills. And hence, SPYDER is not required.

Katoch is wrong in his assertion and so is everyone here who's trying to give convoluted arguments ranging from usual to more sophisticated.

If BRFites are wrong because no one bothered to do their research, then the onus is on them.

Katoch is not a BRFite. And people are at complete liberty to read or ignore him. But him being wrong does not mean BRFites use that as an excuse to put forth wrong arguments.


Issue is folks on the forum go by what "informed insiders" like Katoch say. If he makes convoluted arguments which present IA decision making in a poor light & vested interests make hay (eg a lot of media folks screaming about blow to Make in India etc), then forum will counter that, trying to show holes in his statements.

Getting upset at forum because they are falling prey to propaganda is one thing, but how much effort would it take the IA to put out a simple statement to the effect, QRSAM is a different role and hence issue solved. We have seen this issue time & again with claimed insiders putting their bias and agenda on the services & then forum responding, Pathankot to this, to that.

The services or ideally, MOD need to speak up IMHO and manage the issue, time has passed to let others drive the agenda. Even present GOI's MSM management leaves lots to be desired. Even a simple statement on MOD website to the effect QRSAM requirement.

Well, everyone gets invited to our circus for that is the nature of procurement program. What matters is we get o pick up the best system with reasonable price.


Problem is also that the "best system" may not really be the best because it lacks some attributes & has some others which are desirable but can compensate to a degree.

In each of the 3 systems, there were some attributes which are really required for this class of system:

- BAMSE - Giraffe mast mounted surveillance (long LOS)
- Tor - optimal mobility, no need for packup/ deploy, armored vehicle to accompany formations, search & track on move, and even fire on move. Great system but lacks fire and forget.
- SpyDer - fire & forget missiles with IIR & EO sights (passive/LPI capability). More of a repurpose of existing Elta solutions to meet market need.

Hope the IA now works on QRSAM to meet its needs more than an off the shelf import.

This is a more complicated issue than how you've put forth above.

The requirement for larger AD picture does not come into being only when you've crossed into enemy area.

It also arises when you're:
(a) deploying to your forward areas within your own border.
(b) When you're moving from Point A to Point B inside enemy's area. This involves canal/river crossing exercises.
(c) When you're static inside enemy areas
(d) When you're in contact with the enemy and have to be prepared for CAS from other side.


I never mentioned enemy area - I just mentioned static overwatch covering the other as it moves.

I am asking if we have figured out a way to transmit data to vehicles on the move already. Sort of a stop gap arrangement till ADC&RS comes - which will be several years away.

Organic self-propelled AD assets are required to provide cover in immediate over-head to the formations they're assigned to.

The question here is two fold:

(a) providing these AD assets with larger AD picture. For example, the radar on SPYDER has 60 km range. Other assets have even lesser range. But can I feed the AD picture to these units about enemy a/c when they're 100+ km away from them? Or, even farther?

This used to be done, or done even today through R/T. Remember old IAF videos showing ATC officers plotting the a/c location on transparent mounted map? Something like that.

But IA is working on Air Defense Control & Reporting System (ADC&RS). Here is the link from BEL website:
http://www.bel-india.com/?q=ADC-RS

(b) Second question is this: who gives the feed to Army AD assets? IA relied on IAF for this. And IIRC, they also had a very limited holding of ST-68U radar to provide larger AD picture.


ADC&RS was meant to talk to IACCS to get long range data for IA, from IAF. However, its a long way away (a test bed just went into deployment), so I wonder how the systems "talk" to each other right now & hopefully its more than verbal cues on R/T.

But now, a version of 3D-CAR from Akash program seems to be proliferating into other AD assets. 2014 or 2015 R-Day Paradae had a contingent from an AD Regiment of IA which uses L-70 guns. This contingent had displayed the 3D-CAR derived TCR. And wikipedia tells me that this derivative of 3D-CAR has smaller foot-print that original one.


That is right. TCR is 90 km (vs 150km 3D CAR) but 2 vehicles.

What this means is that a L-70 regiment has an organic surveillance net of 90 km. You might well see more of these proliferate to other units. Whether IA goes for more powerful surveillance radars to develop organic surveillance capability over its AOR, remains to be seen.


IMHO., it must even if IAF sees as it impinging on its turf. Mobile surveillance radars which can pack up & deploy quickly. Some dozen MPRs (Arudhra class for instance) or even Ashwini LLTRs.
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-4eSFSI61w0Y/V ... MRSR-2.jpg

But what is obvious is that whole jamboree of AD assets are going to be interlinked courtesy the digital AD coverage network. And even if Akash regiment cannot provide top missile cover to SPYDER, the surveillance feed from its radar and from wider AD network of IA and IAF will be available to even the fellow with MANPAD.


Now that, would be ideal.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karan M » 28 May 2016 20:44

Good thing about SpyDer is it's current edge, not cutting edge +++ where Israelis (or anyone struggles).
Derby, Python all in production for IDFAF & exports.
Ditto surveillance radar
That pod on top seems to be another standard one used across multiple platforms.

India isn't launch customer, Singapore is. SpyDer should have been debugged and tested by now.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karan M » 28 May 2016 20:54

Karan M wrote:QRSAM RFI
http://indianarmy.nic.in/writereaddata/ ... 280110.pdf

As I presumed, the helicopter threat is paramount.
(d) Target Speed
. 0 to 500 m/s. Missile should be able to
engage hovering helicopters


Question5:
Question 5.
Does the system have the ability to carry out surveillance and tracking
while on the move and immediately fire the missile on halting?


One presumes IAI demonstrated the same with SpyDer.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Surya » 29 May 2016 05:21

Rohit

I am a nervous nellie

till the K 9 starts rolling out I just dont know -

the story of arty is enough to drive me to drink

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karan M » 29 May 2016 09:27

Captive flight trials of HELINA on ALH, for seeker evaluation.
http://www.drdo.gov.in/drdo/tenders/vie ... icro=17461

Seeker work advances for Brahmos! 12unit order LSP advanced to 2 vendors. :mrgreen:

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby rohitvats » 29 May 2016 12:54

^^^Late lateef.....already done.

https://vine.co/v/i9lIpEiQ7p7

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karan M » 29 May 2016 15:02

No, these appear to be entirely new set of trials for just seeker evaluation and not complete missile launch.

See

Upload Date Time 20-05-2016 11:32:23
Publishing Date 20-05-2016 10:00:00
Document Download/Sale Start Date 20-05-2016 11:30:00
Document Download/Sale End Date 15-06-2016 17:10:00
Bid submission Start Date 20-05-2016 11:31:00
Bid Submission Closing Date 15-06-2016 17:11:0

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karan M » 29 May 2016 15:03

Basically new seeker from what I can tell. Perhaps Nag seeker advance (more sensitive in high heat condition) ported over to Helina.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby sivab » 29 May 2016 19:28

[youtube]watch?v=sPOwFr0Dy_M[/youtube]

Watch from 14:45, MP says there will be no import of missiles in 5 years. They have a plan and are working. Great news is nag and helina to be inducted in 6-7 months. 8) Also he mistakenly mentions pechora for pinaka.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby member_23370 » 29 May 2016 19:57

rohitvats wrote:^^^Late lateef.....already done.

https://vine.co/v/i9lIpEiQ7p7



There are 3 tubes visible on the Rudra. So does that mean a triple tube launcher per hardpoint?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby srin » 29 May 2016 21:25

One interesting part of the video is that the booster is to the aft of the missile. The nag missile has booster in the middle of body. So looks like either Helina has a substantially different layout or the Nag itself has undergone major changes.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby vishvak » 29 May 2016 21:43

from 14:45, MP says there will be no import of missiles in 5 years. They have a plan and are working. Great news is nag and helina to be inducted in 6-7 months.

Wow! Shri MP has shown what a good Defense Minister can achieve if put his heart and mind to it. Exemplary candidature for NaMo govt. The missile program as a whole is also exemplary from design to production phase.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby DexterM » 29 May 2016 22:20

Does the "no import after 5 years" cover all "R&D Tie-ups" with Israeli manufacturers?
If so, this is the best thing that happened to India!

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby abhik » 29 May 2016 23:03

More like Screwdrivergiri-in-India with critical components coming from Israel, France, Russia etc for the next ~20 years atleast.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karan M » 29 May 2016 23:24

^^ Inane reply

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby srai » 30 May 2016 05:26

rohitvats wrote:...

But IA is working on Air Defense Control & Reporting System (ADC&RS). Here is the link from BEL website:
http://www.bel-india.com/?q=ADC-RS

ADC&RS (Air Defence Control & Reporting System) is a system for tactical command & control Army Air Defence. Its prime purpose is to reduce the effectiveness of attack by hostile target far off from the vulnerable assets / points by optimal utilisation of available weapons. It also controls air space primarily for ARMY's area of responsibility.

As no single weapon system can adequately protect critical assets against the innumerable of airborne threats, solution based upon integrated firing capabilities of individual Air defence weapon systems used by Army. ADC&RS will support automated means to organise, store, process,integrate and transmit the information required for tactical air defence by the commanders.

It provides linkages from firing platform level to the highest level of army air defence control facilities. It also provides dedicated high volume voice and data exchange throughout the network in real time thus increases the capability of Army Air Defence battlefield and act as a force multiplier.

The ADC&RS is categorized into 4 following hierarchal levels:

1. Weapons & Radars: This is the first level and consists of weapons including fire control radars, guns, tracked vehicles etc. This includes a point-to-multipoint real data communication over VHF and serial omnibus.

2. Command post: For the active control of weapon. These will be directly attached to the VA/VP and area of Responsibility (50 km X 50 km approx).

3. Operations Centre: Next in the hierarchy and will have a larger area of responsibility (100 kmsx100 kms).4. Divisional Air Defence Centre: The AD battle of a full division will be orchestrated from this centre. The Area of Responsibility (AOR) is 200 kms x 200 kms and is mounted on a TATRA 6x6 Vehicle.


SALIENT FEATURES

The system capabilities are as follows:-

Real time, updated and accurate Recognised Air Situation Picture against a GIS back- ground.
Software tools & decision support packages to aid in the decision making.
Inter connectivity to the other TAC C3I networks of the Indian Army like BSS, ACCCS, CIDSS etc. and the IACCS of the Indian Air force.
Environment control to provide proper conditions for humans & machines.
Cross-country mobility.
Automated transmission of target data picked up by all sensors including weapon systems to control centres in real time including target position on a common grid, speed, heading, IFF response and any other available information for generation of a composite air picture.
Automated processing of data at control centres with adequate data handling capacity.
Data exchange between control centres in the form of filtered air picture, EW, identification and weapon control orders.
Automatic transmission of target data and operational control orders from control centres to weapon systems.
Transmission of operational status and location from weapon systems and sensors to control centres at laid down intervals of time or distance to facilitate threat assessment and weapon assignment.
Promulgation of AADFAs by appropriate control centres for air space control.
Automated AD clearance after analysis of request for AD clearance by comparison with friendly air activity and AADFA classification. Restriction on weapon systems and other users of airspace should be automatically generated once AD clearance has been issued.
Exchange of information for integration with TAC C3 I system, IACCS and the strategic C4I2 system.
A suitable communication media meeting the requirements of time criticality, broadcast facility,multi media, mobility, capacity, security and redundancy.

...


Here's a picture to go along with that description.

Image

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Gyan » 31 May 2016 07:53

RE:- DRDO QRSAM

Google Chacha seems to indicate that DRDO QRSAM has similar rocket motor like LRSAM. So my guess is that DRDO QRSAM might look like LRSAM ie Barak-2 with a faster propellant coupled with Astra front end. The radar can be derived from Rajendra/CAR/TCR combo or from AESA MMSR.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Kartik » 01 Jun 2016 02:55

NEW DELHI — For the first time India has broken the monopoly of state enterprise Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) and will permit private defense companies to manufacture rockets for helicopters.

"Indian Air Force (IAF) wishes to buy 200,000 70mm rockets for its helicopters and the Ministry of Defense (MoD), under its new 'Make in India' policy, is now allowing private defense companies to meet the armament and weaponry requirements of the defense forces," said an MoD defense production official who requested anonymity.

"The rockets are proposed to be developed and manufactured by the Indian industry and the project would be based on proven or matured technologies where fundamental research is not required," he said.

Currently three Indian defense forces procure rockets from OFB and imports from overseas.

Last week, IAF floated a request for information (RFI) to private defense companies asking to submit their capabilities to manufacture 70mm rockets for all kinds of helicopters, said a senior IAF official in private.

"It is a priority program under the 'Make in India' policy and we want home-made 70mm rockets within the next three years," he said.

Several private defense companies — Bharat Forge, Punj Lloyd , Mahindra Defence System, Reliance Defence, Larsen & Toubro, and Tata Group — will participate in the program with overseas partnerships.

At present none of the private defense companies have the capability to build sophisticated rockets on their own and they will need to forge tie-up with overseas defense companies such as Raytheon of US, Rafael of Israel, BAE Systems of UK, Diehl Defense of Germany, Thales of France, Saab of Sweden and Rosobornexport of Russia, said a senior industry lobby executive who requested anonymity.

"IAF's RFI on 70mm rockets is misleading as it does not specify specific technical requirements," Bhim Singh, retired IAF wing commander said.

"We want modern rockets which are actually advanced precision kill weapon systems," he added.



India allows private companies to build rockets for helicopters

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby srai » 01 Jun 2016 03:35

^^^
Sounds like they want this: APKWS II: Laser-Guided Hydra Rockets

Image


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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Gagan » 01 Jun 2016 22:23

Video shortcut corrected

Code: Select all

[youtube]sPOwFr0Dy_M[/youtube]

sivab wrote:

Watch from 14:45, MP says there will be no import of missiles in 5 years. They have a plan and are working. Great news is nag and helina to be inducted in 6-7 months. 8) Also he mistakenly mentions pechora for pinaka.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Kartik » 02 Jun 2016 02:33

Great news! Finally, it appears that India will actively look to export the Brahmos, to Vietnam.

India aims to supply Brahmos cruise missiles to Vietnam

India plans to provide Vietnam with varied defence equipment, including BrahMos cruise missiles, in a bid to counter Chinese armament companies equipping several militaries in South Asia and the Indian Ocean region, according to Indian defence industry officials.

To further this offer and strengthen bilateral strategic ties, Indian Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar is travelling to Hanoi in early June accompanied by a 15-20 member team comprising private and public sector defence manufacturers.

"The Indian defence delegation to Vietnam will further the joint development and production of a range of military equipment such as small arms, missile and naval systems as well as assorted ammunition," an industry official told IHS Jane's .

Foremost among the proposed materiel is the joint India-Russia-developed BrahMos anti-ship cruise missile featuring a 292 km strike range that New Delhi had offered Hanoi two years ago. India had been unable to supply the missile at the time due to unresolved issues with Russia regarding export and intellectual property rights, which were only recently resolved, officials said.

Configured on Russia's 3M55 Oniks/Yakhont system (NATO designation SS-NZX-26) and named after the Brahmaputra and Moskva rivers in India and Russia, the BrahMos is a two-stage vehicle with a solid propellant booster and a liquid propellant ram-jet system.

The radar-guided missile is 8.4 m long, weighs 3.9 tonnes and is capable of being fired from ships. Its variants can be launched from mobile land-based platforms. India is also readying the BrahMos to be fired from a submarine and a Sukhoi Su-30MKI fighter.

Since 2008 India has supplied Vietnam with some 5,000 spare parts for its Soviet Petya-class frigates and provided assistance in overhauling the Southeast Asian nation's MiG-21 fighters and T-55 tanks. In October 2014 India pledged to supply Vietnam with four locally built offshore patrol vessels under a USD100 million credit line.



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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby uddu » 02 Jun 2016 06:55

Long overdue. If one has to match Chinese assistance to Pakistan to go nuclear, then Agni-II+nuclear weapons+infrastructure to make in Vietnam, Akash, Arjun, Kamorta to Shivalik etc must be with Vietnamese. Then the CCP will know how much it will harm them for supplying and being cozy with Pakistan. The high moral ground when it comes protecting Indian interest must be taken away. If India is threatened by any country, they must feel far more greater threats emanating from their neighborhood.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Kersi D » 02 Jun 2016 09:10

Kartik wrote:Great news! Finally, it appears that India will actively look to export the Brahmos, to Vietnam.

India aims to supply Brahmos cruise missiles to Vietnam

India plans to provide Vietnam with varied defence equipment, including BrahMos cruise missiles, in a bid to counter Chinese armament companies equipping several militaries in South Asia and the Indian Ocean region, according to Indian defence industry officials.

To further this offer and strengthen bilateral strategic ties, Indian Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar is travelling to Hanoi in early June accompanied by a 15-20 member team comprising private and public sector defence manufacturers.

"The Indian defence delegation to Vietnam will further the joint development and production of a range of military equipment such as small arms, missile and naval systems as well as assorted ammunition," an industry official told IHS Jane's .

Foremost among the proposed materiel is the joint India-Russia-developed BrahMos anti-ship cruise missile featuring a 292 km strike range that New Delhi had offered Hanoi two years ago. India had been unable to supply the missile at the time due to unresolved issues with Russia regarding export and intellectual property rights, which were only recently resolved, officials said.

Configured on Russia's 3M55 Oniks/Yakhont system (NATO designation SS-NZX-26) and named after the Brahmaputra and Moskva rivers in India and Russia, the BrahMos is a two-stage vehicle with a solid propellant booster and a liquid propellant ram-jet system.

The radar-guided missile is 8.4 m long, weighs 3.9 tonnes and is capable of being fired from ships. Its variants can be launched from mobile land-based platforms. India is also readying the BrahMos to be fired from a submarine and a Sukhoi Su-30MKI fighter.

Since 2008 India has supplied Vietnam with some 5,000 spare parts for its Soviet Petya-class frigates and provided assistance in overhauling the Southeast Asian nation's MiG-21 fighters and T-55 tanks. In October 2014 India pledged to supply Vietnam with four locally built offshore patrol vessels under a USD100 million credit line.




Russia will NEVER allow India to export Brahmos to any country. Once it happesn, we would be avery strong competitor, which they do not want.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Sid » 02 Jun 2016 16:53

indonesia already operates yakhont ASM. We selling to Vietnam will harm their future prospects in the region.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Austin » 03 Jun 2016 08:36

Indo-Russian Hypersonic BrahMos Prototype By 2024

http://www.defenseworld.net/news/16233/ ... pe_By_2024

Russia and India will start research and development works on the hypersonic version of BrahMos missile approximately in 2022.

A prototype of the BrahMos hypersonic missile is expected to be manufactured in 2024, Marketing Director of the Russian-Indian BrahMos Aerospace Company Praveen Pathak was quoted as saying by TASS on Thursday."This will be another missile with a speed of about 6 Mach," Pathak said at the KADEX 2016 arms exhibition in Astana in Kazakhstan.

According to Pathak, the speed of the existing BrahMos supersonic missile is planned to be increased to 4 Mach within the coming three-four years.

As Pathak said, a preliminary design of the missile is currently being worked out. Russia and India are simultaneously considering various designs of the future missile.

“This stage will take "at least five-six years." R&D work is expected to start approximately in 2022 and the first prototype of the missile is planned to be manufactured two years later, he said.

Pathak said that the future missile was expected to have the same weight and size as the existing BrahMos missile so that it can be used with the same platforms and launchers.

"Developers cannot tell the project’s total cost yet. This will be known when the preliminary design is worked out and a decision on the missile’s configuration is made," the marketing director said.


According to him, the missile’s price will be mostly determined by the materials that will be used for its production.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Kakarat » 03 Jun 2016 13:48

India to overlook Chinese objections, sell BrahMos missiles to Vietnam

To take on China's increasing hegemony in Asia, the Modi government has cleared sale of BrahMos supersonic cruise missile to Vietnam.

Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar begins a five-day visit to Singapore and Vietnam from today. The main highlight of the visit would be talks on sale of BrahMos missiles to Vietnam.

Vietnam had been eyeing the missile for over five years now but the UPA government had been reluctant to give the nod fearing Chinese objections.

...

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Austin » 04 Jun 2016 13:09

Strategic Community happy that Prakash clears Nicobar Missile testing range

http://m.indiatoday.in/story/glasshouse ... 82904.html

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Supratik » 04 Jun 2016 18:42

Wouldn't it have been a better idea to wait and see whether the Chinese supply the CX-1 to Pakistan before supplying Brahmos to Vietman and use it as a sort of threat?

Thakur_B
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Thakur_B » 04 Jun 2016 18:47

Supratik wrote:Wouldn't it have been a better idea to wait and see whether the Chinese supply the CX-1 to Pakistan before supplying Brahmos to Vietman and use it as a sort of threat?


Did China wait while supplying J7, A5, Jf-17, Type 56 rifles and countless other stuff ?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Cosmo_R » 04 Jun 2016 18:48

Austin wrote:Strategic Community happy that Prakash clears Nicobar Missile testing range

http://m.indiatoday.in/story/glasshouse ... 82904.html


Interesting tidbit :"Two nuclear submarines carried out their first critical tests on the island recently-the SSBN Arihant fired a K-4 ballistic missile

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby shiv » 04 Jun 2016 18:50

Supratik wrote:Wouldn't it have been a better idea to wait and see whether the Chinese supply the CX-1 to Pakistan before supplying Brahmos to Vietman and use it as a sort of threat?

You mean make our relations with Vietnam transactional based on the relationship between two third party countries other than India and Vietnam? It also means that other countries have control over our behavior and could make us do things or not do things depending on what they do. In my view this is a bad idea.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Bhaskar_T » 04 Jun 2016 18:59

No Wait Saar.

With blessings of Modi ji & Ajit Doval ji, the announcement of Brahmos to Vietnam by India could have come in as Vietnam test-firing one Brahmos from Su30Mk2, as part of user-trials. :twisted: (ZorKaJhatkaZorSeLagta) :lol:

Supratik wrote:Wouldn't it have been a better idea to wait and see whether the Chinese supply the CX-1 to Pakistan before supplying Brahmos to Vietman and use it as a sort of threat?

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Supratik » 04 Jun 2016 19:12

All international relations between countries or blocks are transactional. I think I did not frame the question correctly. As our product line gets better should we use supplying lethal weapons to countries opposed to China as a policy or should we use it as a threat to prevent Chinese arming of Pak. If it is the case that China will arm Pak anyway, then ofcourse this question does not arise. Further, we should think about supplying nuclear power plants to Vietnam.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby nirav » 04 Jun 2016 19:39

Supratik wrote:Wouldn't it have been a better idea to wait and see whether the Chinese supply the CX-1 to Pakistan before supplying Brahmos to Vietman and use it as a sort of threat?


We needed to sell Military ware to ASEAN countries decades ago. Whats with the wait and watch ?

What the Baakis got, all of it except the nukes.

We can supply ballistic mijjiles, pinaka, Akash to name a few ..

Shourya and Agni 1 sales would cause the Chinese to get piles. Must follow through.

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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Postby Karan M » 04 Jun 2016 19:50

I'd oppose selling Akash. Its operational characteristics are only known to India at present. We should sell Pinaka, Prahaar, and small arms.


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