Indian Roads Thread

[chetak]

Cannot get the images out of mind since yesterday. I was diving on 6 lane NH1 yesterday & the slow driving trucks/tractors have a habit of being in the right most lane. They will get in the rightmost lane & drive without any hinderance to themselves. But the problem for fast moving cars get worse when there are slow moving vehicles simultaneously on the middle & left lane as well. It becomes a panic situation with cars piling up behind one another to overtake 3 slow moving vehicles blocking the whole highway & cars trying to squeeze in & changing lanes to overtake & moving in a zig zag manner. It's like playing Need for Speed, but in real life. There is kmkraoind ji said there is absolutely a need to fine slow moving vehicles which are in right most lane. Just because they want their driving to be easier they put hundreds of lives in danger which are overtaking them form left. IIRC in Delhi they've made it mandatory & some 6000+ challans were issued to large vehicles breaking this rule & I saw that all slow vehicles on left most lanes. It needs to be done nation wide on highways. I request fellow BRFites to write to NHAI/PMO on this. I will too.

look at the traffic on the bombay poona expressway. The truck drivers rightly get bashed up by the cops for not driving in the correct lane, the left most one. Every truckie drives carefully and legally on this correct lane only leaving all other lanes free for high speed traffic.

they seem to forget this when on other highways.

pity.

these inter city trucks eff up the traffic on all the ring roads in bangalore

[rahulm]

As the erudite Javed Jafferey sagely said : Looks the heres, Ghosts of the kicks not listening to the talks. People get away with bad behaviour at a scale where its the norm. The job of the state to enforce its will i.e. traffic law. If the state were serious, it would find the resources to do it and then do it.

In Goa/Varanasi,many westerners do not wear a helmet but as soon as they return to their home country not wearing is not an option at all. Not even contemplated. Why? The person is the same. The only difference is in India one can get away with it whereas such a stunt back home would hurt - a lot, so compliance is lesser of the 2 discomforts.

[prahaar]

Number of fatalities per 100000 motor vehicles in India stands at 130 versus 1020 for Bangladesh and 100 for China. Total fatalities per year for China is 260K versus 230K for India. Nitin Gadkari was quite candid about RTOs, vehicle certifications and driver skill. The problem is that many parents in India consider license checks for teenagers as a nuisance rather than a safety issue - "class ko jana padta hai". I remember the foolish arguments I did with my mother when asked to wear helmet - No place to store it . Now she has a silent smirk when I run to get a helmet for my daughter.

[Singha]

the krishnagiri to hosur road has some very steep gradients and long ones. our 150-200hp 10-20t loaded trucks simply do not have the muscle to maintain any speed up these slopes and hence the 20kmph processions breaking up flows of faster moving cars. but more meaty engines mean more fuel consumption and capex hence the trend continues.
solution might be two dedicated truck lanes each way and enforce that they stick to these...I think one additional lane is already there. there is lot of trucks on this route..hosur crawls with trucks and has the AL factory as well.

some road bike warrior cyclists doing vellore to blr 200k brevets actually power up these slopes on manual pedals.

[Gus]

from vellore? i hope not in summer. it is one of the hottest places in TN

[disha]

^^ Regarding the car accident., whenever I travel in India by car- I hire a driver - I always have my BP up throughout my journey. First of all they do not understand why I ask for a larger vehicle with seatbelt. Second, I insist no night driving. Third I insist no illegal overtaking. Fourth, I budget my time accordingly - that is expect 5-6 hours on a 3-4 hour stretch. And finally no hanky-panky with big trucks.

In the car accident above., the guy driving the car was a jerk. A big jerk. What was he trying to do overtaking a truck and cutting in front of it and trying to go right? It could have simply waited - if he wanted to go right. Or maybe if he wants to overtake from left., he needed to keep his distance. Also with a teeny car completely loaded with 5 persons., it will just not have enough power to overtake!!

Just shake my head overall. I have seen worse.

[disha]

^^RahulM ji - Excellent post!

One point., anybody trying to discipline the Indian driver (or rather Indian road user) will be consigned to dustbins and treated worse than hitler or mussolini - leave alone get elected.

[Javee]

from vellore? i hope not in summer. it is one of the hottest places in TN

Summer, winter, spring you name it, we got some crazy people out here.

[Singha]

the redoubtabke "captain" of chennai randonneurs made it 500k to vijayawada in heat before retiring for heat exhaustion. javee was saying some completed the return trip also 1000k.

there are more gyan sessions and meetups on how to eat for multi day rides and improving brevet times than erlang or golang kamandugiri here

flabby snickers and m&m fed google coder bunnies who live in office for lack any other goal in life is getting passe here. there is no glamour in having no life and being sick in 20s. a maulana was whining in a party about college grads wanting the company to reassure work life balance

[Javee]

Singhaji, there was a learning session with the "Captain" last Saturday on long distance bicycling @Probikes. Just a FYI, Captain is 64 years old

The sun was shining bright at 40 degrees on NH 4. And, R. Karthikeyan from Tirupur was on his Scott road bike cycling on the highway from Chennai- Nellore-Ongole- Guntur-Vijayawada. He was joined by A.R. Gokul Raj from Annur. “Battling the heat was a challenge. Plenty of water and glassfuls of lassi, buttermilk and watermelon juice helped us stay hydrated,” Karthikeyan recalls.

Karthikeyan and Gokul Raj are among the 19 riders who made it to the finishing line at the recently concluded Madras Randonneurs’ 1000-km brevet. They cycled from Chennai-Vijayawada-Chennai in 75 hours. A total of 26 riders participated. Of this, 19 are from Chennai and the others are from Bangalore and Kochi.

[Aditya_V]

Regarding the car accident, the reason why the first truck went to the wrong side was , he had to panic and swerve in order to avoid crashing into car head on. Trucks being heavy vehicles also take a certain distance to brake. I think it was a case of 3 35-40 year old men picking up 2 school girls. I see many morons who think they are over smart overtaking like this.

[SaiK]

150-200hp for 20t trucks is just not enough.. somehow I think indic autos are highly priced for the vapor ware thin skin vehicles. even mahindra xuv is 140hp max., and costs equals or worse than massan vehicle cost for similar performance.

currently driving a ford figo used. just horrible car... and pretty scary to drive especially in malloostan. those kerala transport and truck guys are just horrible on the highways, and so are the autos and certain two wheeler driver behaviors. absolutely pathetic. i don't feel scared, but feel pathetic... what senses they have to cut other people's right to drive, no signs and even if it is there, it is ignored, attacking driving and don't care a heck for blocking traffic, and add more traffic vows. i doubt there is proper learning given or taken by drivers nowadins.

the reason I said in the other thread, we don't deserve 4 wheelers.

next week or so, will travel to TN and KA.

roads in malloostan is fantastic compared to TN. TN-CBE section is worse than pathetic... and cross walayar check post, you land in massan style setup, with indic style driving. lanes but none follows or some idiotic slow moving traffic will block all lanes. worst case, the right lanes have short shoulders to median. but once you get off highways in KL, you are in God's own land to know if your car will make it destination or needs a special parking arrangement. most residential streets are weirdly narrow.

the number 1 reason of feeling safe on laned highways is the shoulders. they must be 1/2 the lane width at a min. lane discipline is non existent.

ALMOST ALL ROADS ARE FILLED WITH ANTI-SWACCH CAMPAIGN OF PLASTIC BAGS FILLED WITH FILTH SCATTERED JUST FOR THE SAKE OF IT! RESIDENTIAL COLONIES COLLECT MONEY FOR TRASH, AND THEY GET DUMPED ON ROAD SIDES NEAR HIGHWAYS. WHAT THE??

SWACCH SETUP IS PATHETIC! ACHE DIN IS WAY TOO FAR THREATENING TO EVEN CROSS 2050.

[Singha]

Tell us something new like how to bring massan purchasing power down to normal levels by dethrone of dollar as worlds reserve currency.

Rest is all stuff we know. If you have suggestions don't waste them here, write detailed notes and send by regd post to state and central minister . If you care, you can spend an hour for that surely

Just venting daily on br is mutu nri stuff with no end state

[member_26535]

One will develop manic depressive psychosis when you drive from Bangalore to Ernakulam.
Bangalore > Krishnagiri - 6 lane road with heavy traffic,
Krishnagiri to Chengapalli - a very decent 4 lane,
Chengapalli to Neelambur. This is the best stretch and crazy car drivers routinely do 120+ weaving thru all the three lanes.
Neelambur to Walayar will remind you of socialist India with toll collection centres every 2 Kms .
Once you cross Palghat , the next 50+ Kms to Trissur will be terrible terrible terrible. One lane road ( Even thats an exaggeration ) with 1000's of 16 wheelers and other trucks . You cant overtake and just need to tailgate behind them for the whole distance to Trissur. This stretch will take 2 hours on a good day.. Sigh

Atlast some work has resumed in this part of NH 47. Hopefully by 2027 it will be done

[Singha]

KL needs to bite the bullet and arrange for proper wide roads ... its hard to recognize NH roads in the coastal areas them being so small and undivided.

[Kashi]

KL needs to bite the bullet and arrange for proper wide roads ... its hard to recognize NH roads in the coastal areas them being so small and undivided.

Given the population density in the stretches where these roads need widening, it seems quite unlikely.

[kvraghav]

I dont think KL problem is to do with the population density. Theirs villages are narrow. The villages extend along the road. In karnataka, we have to travel a good 8-10 kms from the Highway to the village but in kerala, the villages just keep extending one after the other.

[chetak]

I dont think KL problem is to do with the population density. Theirs villages are narrow. The villages extend along the road. In karnataka, we have to travel a good 8-10 kms from the Highway to the village but in kerala, the villages just keep extending one after the other.

almost impossible to take a piss during road trips in KL.

[Kashi]

I dont think KL problem is to do with the population density. Theirs villages are narrow. The villages extend along the road. In karnataka, we have to travel a good 8-10 kms from the Highway to the village but in kerala, the villages just keep extending one after the other.

Of course KL residents can correct me, but during my road/rail trips across Kerala several years ago (2003/04 and 2007) I thought there was a high degree of urbanisation in Kerala, very difficult to tell sub-urbs apart from villages, especially adjacent to the highways. In such a scenario, acquiring land for road construction can be challenging and cost prohibitive.

[kvraghav]

^^ That was the reason stated by the previous KL govt and requested for the easing up of road width norms for Kerala for Highways. I remember Gadkari ji had flatly refused. I think the problem is something similar to Mysore road.In case of Mysore road, we can Bypass the towns and villages but for KL, that would be expensive again since it might involve cutting up hillside.

[Sachin]

KL needs to bite the bullet and arrange for proper wide roads ... its hard to recognize NH roads in the coastal areas them being so small and undivided.

Given the population density in the stretches where these roads need widening, it seems quite unlikely.

KL would become a "bigger Bangalore" if she also starts widening up the roads hoping that it would cover up the increase in number of vehicles on the road . Perhaps the state should focus more on public transport including better water transport, suburban rail network etc. Land acquisition would still be a problem, but perhaps the efforts spent may have more long term benefits. Yes, Kerala state is more of an urban village all across. Unlike in many other states it is tough to find huge acres of fertile land, with a tiny village in one corner. The houses, the fields, the orchards etc. all remain very close to each other.

[Gus]

railways should become the primary mode of transport for the regular travelers by road. i am going to try and switch..lets see.

[schinnas]

Another option for KL is to build a 6 lane tolled elevated expressway with exit and entry ramps to all major sub-urban centers / villages. That would leave the current narrow roads available to be used by villagers for short distance travel. Kerala has great tourism potential that is not yet fully exploited. Good roads and hygienic, aesthetically pleasing and cost effective accommodation is critical to developing KL as a tourist destination. Many in Delhi prefer to go to Thailand for a 1 week tour with family (mentioning family so you can skip other excuses for people to visit Thailand) than KL as Thailand works out cheaper!

Good accommodation is expensive in KL and if you add bad roads to it, there is no incentive for others to come to KL. There should be a master plan to build major attractions (large shopping centers, architectural marvels, high quality ship-building museum that can be one-of-a kind in Asia, dragon boat races for tourists, etc.,) throughout KL to make it a major tourism hotspot that can rival Thailand. Already Kerala Ayurveda and Ayurvedic massage has a good brand name.

The main point here is that infrastructure activity when planned in isolation will not give the right picture. Baboos will come up with excuses that elevated expressway would not make financial sense and we should go with mass transport systems as land acquisition will be expensive, etc. Only when we take a big picture view as to how the region can be developed and what infrastructure is needed, we can model the needs and budget it well.

[Singha]

this was planned in NDA1 era but local opposition shot it down.

various taxes make hotels in India expensive vs ASEAN. 3* price here == atleast 4* and sometimes 5* there.
things like "luxury tax" are killers for mass market middle class tourism expansion.

this forlorn map from 2004 is all that remains of that shattered dream

[Singha]

govt will release order soon that by october 2018, all cars must have abs, airbags and speed warning system

[Prem]

Project started in 2011
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juUMQIAVX4Q
Now Tunnel will open in JUL.
India's longest tunnel to connect Jammu and Srinagar; Will reduce distance by 31 Kms

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ma8dzR2VSdc

[Kakkaji]

ADB crores to build roads

New Delhi/Ranchi, June 3: Jharkhand today signed agreements with Asian Development Bank by virtue of which ADB will provide a loan of $200 million (Rs 1,500 crore approx) to rebuild over 176km of roads in the state, which will have 20 years to clear the debt.

The funding is for four roads under the Second Jharkhand State Road Project, namely, Dumka-Hansdiha, Govindpur-Tundi-Giridih, Giridih-Jamua-Sarwan and Khunti-Tamar, all of which will be upgraded to at least two lanes.

[rahulm]

Mandatory Airbags and ABS is a welcome move. Oh! what will happen to the Nano? It may become NANO MAXI

Can the govt. please please mandate auto head light dippers? It will make a significant difference to safety.

Speed warning system is a waste of time. BLR MERU airport taxis have a 80 kmph speed warning system which the drivers hate - I have often heard swearing when the robotic female voice alert comes on.The only reason the drivers heed the warning is because the data is logged and monitored by MERU HQ. [In this instance, Ghost of the kicks listening to the female talk due to big danda at backend]

Private car drivers will have no such disincentive, SHQ will shout - my poor baby/baba is getting disturbed by the warning - kuch karo. Harried husband fearing loss of "fringe benefits" will drive to MARUTHI MOTAR GARAGE etc who by now will have a new and profitable business division to de-activate speed warning systems.

The only way a speed warning system might work is if the sarkar mandates a tamper proof device impervious to the innate genius of MARUTHI MOTAR, with speed and location logging (essentially record your sins so to speak) which the police can interrogate using a scanner at any time for say 30 days. This will be an effective deterrent but involves forward thinking and innovation.

Even better, real time logging into a sarkari database with Data lakes, streams and rivers providing on the fly personalised analytics with real time deduction from your Platinum credit card. Start your journey with a full credit card balance, reach your destination with card maxed out and lieson (Licence) cancelled. See if this does not fix behaviour over night. Don't see it happening. ISRO can prioritise a special satellite for this purpose - maybe call it FINESAT or even better ASSFORGED (Advanced Satellite System FOr Reduction of GovErnment Deficit]. The latter name will also accurately describe the state of the errant drivers once the system locks onto them.

On the Sydney - Melbourne HUME Highway since motorists knew the location of fixed speed cameras they would slow down just before the camera and speed afterwards. Sarkar then installed averaging speed cameras so now one can't speed between the cameras because they calculate your average speed between the cameras.

Right now, this stuff is too advanced for us. It means standardised licence plates fonts and sizes, a reliable address database where fines can be sent, a punitive follow up mechanism if challans are ignored (as they will be) and a graduated escalation in suspension of govt. services if the fine is not paid.

Oz has compulsory voting, I missed a local election due to my extended travels. Since the govt received no responses to their fine challans ($55) from me, after a period of time, I started receiving letters from govt. bodies that they have suspended doing business from me until this matter gets resolved. e.g. I couldn't register my car, which means I can't drive it, which means I can't function any more.

All for 1 vote - my vote. When essential govt. services start becoming unavailable, compliance quickly follows It is the duty of the state to ensure that, within the law, its writ prevails each time, unambiguously and must follow through to the end for the sake of the people who are doing the right thing.

Can we also mandate inclusion of seat belts for all and no horns to be installed by manufactures. Horns are from an bygone era and only make the chap creating the racket feel better and everybody else feel worse. Our desi bovines have also have evolved to the point where a compressed air horn from a TATA LPT lorry has absolutely no effect. They just look back at you and munch away, just like the pedestrians.

Anyway, ABS and Airbags are a good move and welcome.

[Gus]

i would mandate dash cam and vehicle data recorder (speed, braking, acceleration etc) - use this to settle insurance claims

and have insurance tied to driver. right now, it is tied just to the vehicle and driver is not at all a factor.

bad drivers will get heavy penalties in insurance and even denial of insurance for repeat offenders.

let the cops crackdown on those driving without insurance.

this way, it is all tied to market forces and people will start to self-regulate - instead of relying on corrupt police machinery to enforce driving laws.

[rahulm]

It's a norm in countries with sophisticated driver systems to tie insurance to driver.

In Oz, a No Claims Bonus or NCB is used to reward safe drivers with a discount on car insurance premiums. You receive an additional discount on your insurance premiums, up to a maximum of 5 years for each year that you don't make a claim.

Rating 1, the highest can give discounts upto 65%. Drivers are aware of and strive to protect their NCB. This is also a good idea, however, it has not been completely successful in self regulating driver behaviour.Humans often choose short term gain over long term pain.

Driver education is important and must continue but it can't be the sole remedy. Behaviour modification through financial pain gets most motivated.

[Prem]

On Road building and traffic

[Javee]

Speed warning does work, I was in Oman last year and it is mandatory there. I thought I will quickly get over the warning sound, but after a while it was so annoying that I was just stayed within the max speed. There were plenty of stretches where there was no other cars and I only did max speed posted. The rental agency said it was tamper proof and they said the locals who break the speed limit do so by drowning it with music. But there were only a small % of drivers that over sped.

[Prasad]

Cab drivers invariably have a phone or a headset on their ears anyway

[Javee]

You will still here that constant annoying beep, no amount of headset will work, may be those noise canceling ones could make it tolerable. My SHQ was annoyed with me and showed me a variety of faces to stay under the posted limit.

[SaiK]

Singha, I didn't do the whine intentionally nor being mutu. It is out of just ignorance onlee people don't seek. India has the money to build advanced structures but all we need is the will power and intention to seek for better infras.

complaining and advising gov entities will find trashcan/.. besides I'd not bring anything new. these are old even before I moved for firang rooting. i'm actually now dual rooted.

on swachh, this is a cross cutting concern. we need comprehensive solution federated and privatized but regulated by central governance. recycling plants are must for all cities, towns and municipalities. reduce plastic bags or use env degradable plastics for packaging, grocery bag, and covers. rest of the plastics and paper products must be individually recycled. this needs a massive comprehensive plan. mandatory and must before 2019. otherwise, gandhi jayanti day will see not mutus, but even the kangrez baazis will take that mutu route to defeat modi gov on this failed promise alone. indic roads are sore sight and env hazard by swacch system alone. besides, funds can be allocated from tourism budget.

road widening in KL and other places again can be achieved by the new laws perhaps bring the change to ISI or standards. mandatory guidelines and must shed private land on prescribed rates on all roads. highways like 100 meters either side is allocated for expansions, and local gullies about 4 meters either side per lane expansion/need. some buildings will have to go, and shopping areas are moved and zoned rather have this convenience shopping anywhere you want in residential areas. we have to go capacity planning on roads when we expand.

smarter roads must get a small boost.

[ldev]

For India the big question will be at what speed the warning beep will be activated? In Gulf countries if I remember the warning beep is activated at 120 kmph. I think if I remember in Singapore the cabs have beeps that used to be activated at 80 kmph given the local roads and that the cabs unlike private cars do not normally leave Singapore to go into Malaysia where higher speeds are possible. If that limit in India is set at 80 kmph it will be hell driving on highways with the constant beep, beep, beep noise.

[SaiK]

in addition to speed warnings people should be alerted using radar and infra-red imaging and integrated with vehicle system that can potentially cut off the engine after applying brakes.

unless we have free flowing traffic, we have no use to speed limits. we need more bridges and people crossing that does not interfere highway system.

and only improving standards, we can correct/graduate people

[vera_k]

In 5 years, add automatic braking to the list of safety features required on new cars and trucks.

[Gus]

It does not have to be on a certain speed limit. There can be a low level warning that 80 is crossed but definitely the 'persistent and irritating' one at 100.

[Zynda]

From SSC:



Note: Probably NSFW and not for the squeamish (I didn't watch the video). Watch it at your own risk.

Apparently an Alto gets crushed like a tin can between two lorries while the idiot driver of the car makes an illegal right turn from the center lane. Seen this multiple times on BLR (probably on entire Indian) roads...two wheelers, autos & cabs do it very often, make turns suddenly from center lane expecting the traffic on the side lanes to slow down & make way for them and they don't take it kindly if their wrong doing is pointed out.

I guess that's why certain rules even though they seem stupid (like speed warning), probably makes sense in our country until the populace (incl educated class) achieves a certain knowledge about road safety!