India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 16 Aug 2016 19:48

How far can we be certain of it? I mean I live in India and when I see CNN I can not even believe that such one-sided reporting is possible from an international news outlet. Is it possible that media is totally one sided and not reading public mood in the US? When all over the world people like Billary are getting kicked in the a&& by voters. Will they vote for her in the US?

I think, this is the election DT can fail only because of himself. Is he that kind of idiot?

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 16 Aug 2016 20:09

UlanBatori wrote:With great trepidation, let me disagree most respectfully with Cosmo's grand declaration of superior intellectual quality of BRF etc.

...

(And OK, Cosmoji, I DID delete some of the REAL UNTOLD story as portrayed in "Rakta Tilakam", (translation for the illiterate would be approx. "Red Dot on Forehead" in New Jersey i-d(i)ot terminology) but I increasingly realize that it was pretty accurate. IIRC, the movie starts with an Indian truck driver dying in a valley after his truck crashes down a slope from one of the goat-tracks, taking a dying look at the photo of his family that he carried in his pocket.)

UBji, I have lost/forgotten the thread/plot on this. The enforced BRF summer vacation has scrambled my receptor neurons by forcing me to think first and speak later—the reverse of the principle I've followed with gusto to go along with the spirit of forum discussion. Perhaps you could refresh the context.

On a buoyant note, I am hungry to know more of what my 'grand declaration' is/was. I have heard many adjectives about my declarations: 'addled'; 'asinine'; 'aspirational' are some that come to mind (alphabetically). The 'B's are not for family readership.

The truck driver in NJ (??) diving into the ravine while glancing at his family photo is an arresting scene (unfortunately not for him) and the reference to DOT I assume is to flagellate the depart of transportation of the Garden State for the absence of guardrails. In their defense, though, they sure know how to cordon off bridges

Anyway, enough of this nonsense from moi, onward and sideways, let's hear from the community in a similar vein.

Good to be back.

ssundar · Post by **ssundar** » 17 Aug 2016 00:28

Yagnasri wrote: I think, this is the election DT can fail only because of himself. Is he that kind of idiot?

YS-garu,

DT is that kind of idiot, no doubt. He acted like a raving lunatic pre-convention, and that was the right thing to do in order to clinch the nomination competing with even more dangerous lunatics. Once he clinched the nomination, he needed to mellow down and look "presidential". He would have swept all the votes of the aam aadmi - including moi - who hate Billary. With die-hard republicans plus Bernie voters plus everyone else who hates Billary, he would have glided into the White House. Wrong moment to develop unstoppable verbal diarrhea.

Now, the only thing that can save him is underdog sympathy (US media attacks on him are much more vicious than those thrown at NM) and a few more attacks by people with "No" religion - Billary would have sent more votes his way each time she declared that terror has no religion.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 17 Aug 2016 00:45

Yagnasri wrote:
I think, this is the election DT can fail only because of himself. Is he that kind of idiot?

Yagnasri ji, he is either that kind of idiot, or he is a deliberate saboteur (a CT some people have advanced, given the ties of close friendship between Trump and Clinton families since even before the days when Hillary was first running for the NY Senate seat).

Hillary is a very vulnerable candidate. She is like MQ running directly for PM-ship after 8 years of incumbent MMS rule. There is no shortage of informational ammunition against her campaign for even a half-wit opponent to use effectively: from the corruption allegations and globalist trade agenda of the Bill Clinton years, to the ghastly job she did across the board as SOS, to the outright scandals involving Benghazi, Email Server-gate (for which she got a free pass from Obama), Clinton Foundation, and Wikileaks evidence of DNC rigging against Sanders (which basically exposed the Democratic party to be a Dynastic plutocracy exactly like our own Congis). Not to mention widespread economic insecurity, anxieties over law-and-order and terrorism, and hundreds of recorded Hillary flip-flops over everything from the Iraq War to the TPP.

The Democrats say Trump is "not qualified" to be President because he has no record in governance. It should be easy enough to reverse the argument by saying, is Hillary therefore "qualified" to be President given her disastrous record in governance? And hammer that home at every opportunity.

If Trump, despite this huge available arsenal, still allows the opposition to control the narrative, then that means he either cannot use it effectively or will not use it effectively. Take your pick. If in India in 2014, Kejriwal had successfully set himself up as the primary opposition to Pappu, we might have seen something similar happen and INC come back, no?

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 17 Aug 2016 01:16

Rudradev wrote:
If Trump, despite this huge available arsenal, still allows the opposition to control the narrative, then that means he either cannot use it effectively or will not use it effectively. Take your pick. If in India in 2014, Kejriwal had successfully set himself up as the primary opposition to Pappu, we might have seen something similar happen and INC come back, no?

DT wants to change the politics of america completely to a non lobby and american interest politics

This is a big change and will impact the entire world.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 17 Aug 2016 05:48

If he is an honest candidate may be, he is. The question is whether the US will not join the anti-establishment wave sweeping many nations in the world or not. Polls indicate it will not. But how far we trust them? As per the reports he gives no Tv advertisements so far. Why? Is he waiting for the first of the debates and then saturate the waves with Tv spot attacks? I do not know. The problem is we have a totally different candidate who do not fit into models we have seen.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 18 Aug 2016 02:52

Yagnasri: Everyone in the US is "the establishment". How can they join the anti-establishment?

chanakyaa · Post by **chanakyaa** » 18 Aug 2016 04:33

DT wants to change the politics of america completely to a non lobby and american interest politics

^^^
“Capitalism Is a Lot More Important Than Democracy,” Says Donald Trump’s Economic Adviser

MOORE: Capitalism is a lot more important than democracy. I’m not even a big believer in democracy. I always say that democracy can be two wolves and a sheep deciding on what to have for dinner. … Look, I’m in favor of people having the right to vote and things like that. But there are a lot of countries that have the right to vote and they’re still poor. Democracy doesn’t always lead to a good economy or even a good political system.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 18 Aug 2016 07:45

US is just being more overt about its protestant ethic fundamentals. They've digested a lot of non white culture for decades and now its time to reaffirm their white protestant identity.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 Aug 2016 09:13

the smear campaign against DT by the MSM there is even more ugly than the one against Namo here. I mean how can intelligent people not read some of the stuff in NYT/Wapo/CNN and not reach for the puke bag?

ssundar · Post by **ssundar** » 18 Aug 2016 11:21

The witch-hunt against Trump is quite blaring. But, if the man had maintained decorum and dignity, the focus would have been on the witch-hunt and could have turned into a wave similar to the Modi wave of 2014. With his circus shenanigans, he is turning off people who would have been his voters.

Billary putting the parents of a Peaceful veteran on the convention stage is no less ridiculous than Chornia getting the Jama Masjid imam's endorsement weeks before the election. Trump could have exposed that nonsense had he been more tactful. But he sent more sympathy their way with his conduct. That is when the slide began.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 18 Aug 2016 11:45

Singha wrote:I think US has reached the stage where the writ of POTUS no longer runs supreme over rebellious central and state legislatures down to rebellious towns who do what they want and then fight it out in the courts or assemblies.

a bit bad for the soothing defender of democracy and oh we have the rule of law paramount here unlike you unwashed old world heathens narrative.

neither trump or hillary can control the forces that are unleashed due to pent up wrong policies over time....neither can be really use these forces .... energy cannot be created or destroyed it can only change its form...it can be series of small quakes or a big quakes to release the energy periodically

A very huge part of the problem is that most up-there politicians have lost contact with the very people they represent. HC and DT - among others, whites and blacks - talk big, but have in the recent past never delivered.

Check out The Bern. Left of left, he goes and does the very right thing of purchasing a third residence for a cool 0.5 mil. How much more of a disconnect can a person have?

HC, an age old rep of the people, is closely tied to one of the largest and yet growing Foundation of its time!!!

And, what to say of DT? Declared bankruptcy multiple times, had others pay the price and restructure, while he flies around in his own an air fleet.

Each is looking after their own skin. Then - may be - the party (in the narrowest sense). And, perhaps, as an after thought, the people.

Some 20 people own more wealth than the bottom 50%. CEOs earn millions!!!!! God knows why - I hope. And, people just trudge along. Watch a few games, get drunk, get up and go to work. And, of course pay taxes.

The State of Illinois has not passed a budget for over a year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Politicians.

IMHO, this is what happens when people stop participating in the process.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 18 Aug 2016 12:19

well the masses there have plenty of bread and circus to keep them pacified. the china manufacturing offshore was done precisely for this purpose - to keep the price of household and basic business goods low , fuel & utility prices are kept manageable .. soothe the masses.

Christopher Sidor · Post by **Christopher Sidor** » 18 Aug 2016 18:11

Dont rule out Trump yet. Yes Hillary has significant lead over him. Yes his words and his antics have all left us wondering about his suitability for POTUS chair.

However the wild card is the economy. US elections are won on the simple dictum, "Its the economy, Stupid". And if the economy goes belly up then the so called Hillary's ties with Wall Street and Big Business will put her in a very big disadvantageous position, with a possibility of her loosing the election too. Let us not forget even those Americans who are neutral or do not like Donald Trump say that "He says as it is". Yes right now the odds are stacked against Donald Trump right now, but the odds were stacked against George W Bush in Bush vs Al Gore too, despite US undergoing close to a decade of best post war economy renissance under Bill Clinton.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 18 Aug 2016 18:53

Singha wrote:well the masses there have plenty of bread and circus to keep them pacified. the china manufacturing offshore was done precisely for this purpose - to keep the price of household and basic business goods low , fuel & utility prices are kept manageable .. soothe the masses.

Hmmmm.

IF that is true, it certainly has had the wrong effect: Mr. Trump, the champion soother? A soother promising to correct trade imbalances, bring back jobs (good ones I assume) and solve inner city problems - all at the same time. All when Mr. no-trade-barriers, Mr. Clinton is alive?

What NAFTA (Mr. Clinton) to TPP (Mr. Obama) lacks is how to (equitably?) distribute the wealth it creates, which is causing problems. It is an incomplete economic model.

But, ............................ carry on.

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 18 Aug 2016 20:57

Hint:

Try google on

2016 presidential election third party candidates

It is trending now.

ssundar · Post by **ssundar** » 18 Aug 2016 21:26

NRao wrote: Hmmmm.

IF that is true, it certainly has had the wrong effect: Mr. Trump, the champion soother? A soother promising to correct trade imbalances, bring back jobs (good ones I assume) and solve inner city problems - all at the same time. All when Mr. no-trade-barriers, Mr. Clinton is alive?

What NAFTA (Mr. Clinton) to TPP (Mr. Obama) lacks is how to (equitably?) distribute the wealth it creates, which is causing problems. It is an incomplete economic model.

But, ............................ carry on.

NRao saar, a President's initiatives only need to work for the first 6 years of his/her term. From that perspective, BC's China outsourcing policy was a huge success. It gave the country prosperity that withstood the 8 years of Dubya and a few of OmBaba.

Your point of those policies screwing the country 18 years later is well-taken. But then, there have been US Presidents whose policies screwed the country the very year after they were implemented.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 19 Aug 2016 01:36

US Air Force Secretary to visit India, plans to discuss defence, trade

Indo-US cooperation in defence technology and trade initiatives will be the focus of the US Air Force Secretary’s upcoming visit to India during which she will also discuss with top Indian officials proposals to co-produce aircrafts in India. Deborah Lee James will travel to India later in August as part of a maiden visit to four Asian countries that would also take her to Indonesia, Singapore and the Philippines and will discuss the situation in the South China sea as well as the growing threat of terrorism.

During her visit to India, she will meet Chief of Air Staff Marshal Arup Raha and Defence Secretary G Mohan Kumar and will also discuss with her Indian counterparts proposals to co-produce aircrafts in India in line with Prime Minister Narendra Modi’s ambitious ‘Make in India’ campaign. “We will be looking to see how can we deepen our partnerships and how can we take it to the next level,” James said in response to a question by reporters at a press briefing in New York on Wednesday on what her focus will be during her visit to India.

She said she will discuss defence technology and follow up on the trade initiatives, which were launched during US Defence Secretary Ashton Carter’s visit to India in April. James replied in the affirmative when asked if she will follow up on American defence major Lockheed Martin’s proposals to assemble F-16s in India as well as on discussions to collaborate in bolstering India’s fighter jets and the jet engine technology working group.

“I will be following up on all of those topics, discussing these counterpart to counterpart on a bilateral basis. I will be seeking the views of my counterparts, what their opinion is on the various proposals on the table and what more needs to happen to advance the ball on some of these proposals. “I am also aware of the Prime Minister’s push for Make in India and the importance of creating new jobs in that sector. One of the proposals would be to co-produce certain aircrafts in India and that might be one example of something that will be useful from a military standpoint but also might play into the Make in India campaign,” she said.

James said she would also follow up on the initiatives launched during Carter’s visit and the possible outcomes of it from the Air Force perspective. She, however, noted that while some proposals will move forward, others may not if they are not the right fit. Describing the Indian Air Force as a “very effective fighting unit”, she said it has been a participant over the years in “red-flag” exercise series, where the US gets together with coalition partners to train and inter-operate and “test ourselves in a high-end and very challenging difficult environment”.

James added that she also looks forward to congratulating India on the “magnificent execution” of the operation undertaken to evacuate Indian citizens from South Sudan. James said she also looks forward to “congratulating the Chief of Air Force in particular on what is I think a magnificent execution of the C-17 operation where Indian citizens were evacuated from South Sudan. Well done on that, well done.” India had launched ‘Operation Sankat Mochan’ to evacuate about 600 of its citizens from the war-torn country. The Indians were ferried back to the country by Indian Air Force carrier C-17 Globemasters.

James leads a globally deployed force of nearly 660,000 active-duty, Guard, Reserve and civilian Airmen and oversees the Air Force’s annual budget of more than $139 billion. The focus of her visit to the Asian countries, her first as Air Force Secretary, will be to underscore US support for efforts that bring peace, security, and prosperity to the Asia-Pacific region and to seek opportunities to deepen and expand the relationship between US and ally air forces. “The future that the US would like to see in the Indo-Asia Pacific region is a future where we are all working, collaborating and training together and not just in a military sense but in a political and economic sense also,” she said.

“Freedom of navigation and legal use of the sea and airspace is a central part of this idea of cooperation and that is why the Air Force and the US Navy have engaged in freedom of navigation operations. We will fly and operate wherever international law allows and we believe that is the right of all countries to do so,” she said.

Asserting that the US considers the recent ruling from The Hague on South China Sea to be “legally binding on all parties”, she said Washington hopes that “all of the claimants in the South China Sea will exercise restraint in the future and will work to lower tensions”.

“We certainly support the peaceful resolution of the disputes in this region. I look forward to discussing this and other matters with my counterparts during the visit in the region,” she said, adding that the US stands “very firmly” behind the principle of freedom of navigation.

krishna_krishna · Post by **krishna_krishna** » 19 Aug 2016 07:18

Hai Alla Yikes, still no lego sticks agreement. Poor dalals of deep ish state will rote in dalal street. Ya All Madad

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 19 Aug 2016 08:13

Make what you will of this interview, but do not mistake this for an Indian interests perspective, it is a US interest perspective of Indo-US.

Redrawing boundaries would open Pandora’s Box - Ashley J. Tellis

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 19 Aug 2016 09:31

ShauryaT, Ashley J. Tellis is an Indian-American. What do you expect from him or for that matter from any other Indian-American?

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 19 Aug 2016 10:35

This Brave New World
India, China and United States

By Anja Manuel

FROM CHAPTER TWELVE:
THE NEXT MASTER AND COMMANDER
This Brave New World By Anja Manuel

On a craggy, treeless Himalayan ridge, hundreds of Chinese and Indian soldiers shove each other, shout insults, and throw punches. A video posted on YouTube shows two Chinese soldiers rushing past the Indian guards and breaking into Indian territory. To calm the tension, an Indian commander shouts “Take it easy!” while his Chinese counterpart off a

cigarette to the Indians that no one accepts. Both sides keep their guns tucked safely away, but their video cameras out, to record any infraction by the other.

Thousands of miles to the south, an Indian fisherman in a tiny village near Chennai recently received an electronic tracking device. It will make him part of the eyes and ears of the Indian coast guard and navy. India is worried about terrorism from Pakistan and China’s increasing assertiveness in the Indian Ocean, so it is issuing these devices to two hundred thousand fishing boats. From a central command center, the Indian coast guard will use these censors to distinguish Indian vessels from intruders, such as the boats that carried terrorists to Mumbai in 2009. Although they do not acknowledge it publicly, Indian naval officers also hope it will help them find the brand-new Chinese submarines and naval ships that increasingly creep past India’s shores on their way to Sri Lanka or Pakistan. Military tensions between India and China are high.

Chinese fishing boats are also getting into the act in a way that worries the United States and others. In March 2009, two Chinese trawlers nearly rammed a U.S. Navy surveillance ship, the Impeccable, south of China’s Hainan Island. They waved Chinese flags and yelled at the U.S. sailors to leave. When the Americans sprayed water at the ship, the Chinese bizarrely stripped down to their underwear and got even closer. Even as the Americans tried to leave the area, the trawlers dropped pieces of wood in the Impeccable’s path to stop it and tried to grab its sonar instruments. These types of incidents are becoming disturbingly common.

How will the two giants project military might? In spite of their mostly cooperative economic relations, the United States, India, and China are engaged in a gradual, great power military escalation that no one really wants. India is nervous about China’s moves into its traditional spheres of influence. China’s new submarines cruise the Indian Ocean, new border fortifications encroach on land India claims as its own in the Himalayas, and a series of new ports in South Asia will allow Chinese ships to rest and to push even closer to India’s shores.

In response, India is dramatically increasing its defense budget and stepping up military cooperation with Japan, Australia, the United States, and others. The Chinese interpret this as encirclement. It is a classic security dilemma.

FROM THE CONCLUSION: OURS TO LOSE

When new countries rise to power, the story often ends badly, sometimes in war. Many Americans worry about China’s economic power and, understandably, about its military assertiveness. Pundits and presidential candidates often talk as if China were already an adversary of the United States. Few have focused on Asia’s other giant, India. Instead of scaring the American people about one country and ignoring another, we need to get busy working with both on a new world system that accommodates all three. There is reason to hope that with thoughtful, steady policies agreed upon by the United States, China, and India, this time will be different.

One example makes me cautiously optimistic that the rise of China and India can be peaceful. I’ll call it a tale of three powers. In the late nineteenth century, the British Empire stretched around the world. Its economic and military might were unparalleled. Yet some cracks were showing in the foundations. Steadily, two other powers encroached on Britain’s dominance. Both these rivals had strong economies, were rapidly industrializing, and increasingly sought a place for themselves in the international order. One was a monarchy, Germany. The other, the United States, was a democracy that shared some, but not all, of Britain’s values. Over several decades, Britain decided to accommodate the rise of the United States, believing that the United States would generally align itself with the rules of the international system Britain had established, and eventually help share the burden of supporting this order by keeping the seas free for navigation, and trade mostly open. Britain tolerated many missteps by the United States on the latter’s way to great power status. The two avoided major conflicts and ultimately became allies in two world wars. While Britain made some friendly overtures to Germany as well, it treated Germany mostly as a rival to be balanced. Both countries rapidly built up their navies in the lead-up to World War I, and ultimately fought two devastating wars.

Many in the United States today call for us to repeat, in essence, the policy that Britain pursued in the late nineteenth century: to support the rise of India, a democracy, and other like-minded countries, as a counterweight against the growing power of authoritarian China. I believe that this strategy alone will not succeed, just as it did not succeed for Britain.

Gus · Post by **Gus** » 19 Aug 2016 13:31

NRao wrote: Check out The Bern. Left of left, he goes and does the very right thing of purchasing a third residence for a cool 0.5 mil. How much more of a disconnect can a person have?

as usual, the DETAILS make it look different

On another financial matter, Jane Sanders said she and her husband paid cash — $575,000 — for the four-bedroom summer house they recently bought in North Hero, Vermont, on the Lake Champlain shore. She said she sold her share of her family’s long-time vacation home in Bridgeton, Maine, to her brother for $150,000, added some money from her retirement account and from an advance her husband got on a book he is writing to come up with the money to buy the couple’s third home.

This is not really a big deal like its made up to look like...

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 19 Aug 2016 13:50

guys, we have the understanding US thread for politics discussion.

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 19 Aug 2016 20:37

matrimc wrote:ShauryaT, Ashley J. Tellis is an Indian-American. What do you expect from him or for that matter from any other Indian-American?

Nothing different, but there are people on this board who are confused about this matter. They confuse US interests to be the same as Indian interests. They confuse Indian-Americans, especially those working in think tanks to be articulating Indian interests. They confuse all think tanks regardless of national affiliation to be on the same plane. We have Indians in American think tanks in India articulating US interests vis-a-vis India. We have Indian money provided to these American think tanks on the understanding that they will promote Indian interests. We have Indian-Americans who opine on Indian interests. We also have Indians in America, who opine on Indian interests. We also have PM's who run to America to get a definition of Indian interests (OK, the last one was half jokingly, but half serious). Hence the caveat.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 20 Aug 2016 01:33

Half-Indian man escorted out of Trump rally

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 20 Aug 2016 11:08

(Rahul M. Please allow this short post).
Gus, you are so right. This is orders of magnitude smaller than Bill Clinton getting $48 million in speaking fees after the then SDOTUS (led by his wife) gave permission to him to speak in foreign countries. Clintons are cheats, in my humble opinion. I cannot provide any hard evidence; just circumstantial evidence only.

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 21 Aug 2016 00:47

http://www.charlotteobserver.com/news/p ... 48367.html
Teen Trump fan, ejected from Charlotte rally, says he was profiled
...
An 18-year-old Charlotte college student who was ejected from Thursday’s Donald Trump rally says he went from avid backer to disillusioned opponent after Trump’s security staff accused him of being a known protester.
Jake Anantha, who registered as a Republican and planned to cast his first presidential vote for Trump, was wearing a Trump shirt when police removed him from the Charlotte Convention Center before the rally began. He and his father, Ramesh Anantha, say they believe he was profiled because of his dark skin....
Gautam

Hitesh · Post by **Hitesh** » 21 Aug 2016 06:14

Now he will grow up wiser. He had to be stupid enough to believe in Trump after all the media coverage on how racist those Trump rallies were, especially the endorsements from far right wing groups and white supremacist groups.

That kid deserved the chappati that was served upon him. It was a necessary life learning educational lesson for him.

To all Trump fans on this forum, take a lesson from this and revise your opinion of Trump.

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 21 Aug 2016 08:24

Hiteshji,
Trump rallies are attended by whites mainly, with token sprinkling of other races. Remember Trump pointing one out and saying my African-American? Being half white, the kid (Jake Anantha) may have assumed that he was white. He is wiser now.
Gautam

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 22 Aug 2016 09:45

Manohar Parrikar to visit US next week for pushing key defence ties

According to officials at the Ministry of Defence (MoD), India and the US are highly likely to sign the Logistics Exchange Memorandum of Agreement (LEMOA), on which the two nations agreed in principle during the US defence secretary Ashton Carter's visit to New Delhi in April.

Even as CISMOA and BECA too will be followed up during the visit, officials said another important agenda during Parrikar's visit will be the Indian Navy's requirements of the Electromagnetic Aircraft Launch System (EMALS) for aircraft carriers as well as the long-range Predator B Guardian surveillance unmanned aircraft or drone. Navy has put an initial requirement of 22 Predators.

Parrikar's visit also coincides with India's lookout for a technologically new set of fighter jets for its air force and two US companies, Boeing and Lockheed Martin pitching hard for it even as the government to government deal on the French Rafale jets is still stuck in negotiations.

Eyeing advance technology

India is also on a look out for technology cooperation for its second indigenous aircraft carrier, the 65,000 tonnes INS Vishal. Even as India's first indigenous aircraft, INS Vikrant is in advanced stage of construction, Navy is in the process of finalising the design for INS Vishal, which will be India's largest battleship. India has been eyeing the advanced US aircraft carrier technology for this project

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 22 Aug 2016 13:04

x-post

Just as the Papal gangs operating from Rome protect their own, the Protestant gangs from US have the back of their own with massa State department directly being involved in their defense.

How the US protected child abuse by a Christian Pastor in India

The incident of Pastor Jacob John serves as a case study for the inherent agenda in the reports released by the US State Department. Reports from USCIRF and US State Departments on “religious freedom” are part of an evangelical crusade in which India remains a soft target.
Nithin Sridhar @nkgrock
Demography (Persecution & Proselytisation) | 05-05-2016

Every year the US State Department releases various Country Reports that purports to document, assess, and offer recommendations regarding the conditions of human rights, religious freedom, terrorism, and trafficking present in different countries across the world. Similarly, the United States Commission on International Religious Freedom (USCIRF), which works closely with the US State Department, specifically concentrates on the issue of religious freedom and its violations across the world.

Yet, if one were to analyze the India-specific reports that are released year after year, they are often replicating propaganda from Christian Evangelist organizations without any independent checks. In the quest to create a narrative of “Christian persecution” in India they deliberately overlook cases where Christians may be the perpetrators of abuse. One such example is how the US whitewashed horrendous child abuse by the Christian Pastor Jacob John in Jaipur, Rajasthan.

Who is Pastor Jacob John?

Pastor Jacob John is a Christian Pastor from Jaipur, Rajasthan, who was arrested by the police in 2013 on charges of wrongful confinement, kidnaping, and trafficking. Jacob is the son of KK John from Malviya Nagar, Jaipur and he was running a children’s home for girls called ‘Father Grace Home’ in the city. Additionally, he was also running a separate children’s home for boys as well.

On March 12, 2013, the police raided both children’s homes and rescued 53 children- 29 girls and 24 boys- who had been wrongfully kept in confinement and exploited in numerous ways. During the raid on Grace Home, the police found around 600 empty liquor bottles, rotting vegetables, and a broken toilet and a single room. The 29 tribal girls, who were rescued, were all under the age of 14 and were brought from North-East, especially Manipur. Subsequent medical tests revealed that many of the girls were drugged and sexually exploited.

The condition of the children of Grace Home was so bad that, parents who withdrew their children from the Grace Home, found their children, especially girls returning home with severe physical deformity and sexual abuse. Felicita Shongvah, president, Tangkhul Shanao Long, had stated that “a number of minor girls were sexually exploited and in one case, the girl got pregnant. It is said she has delivered the baby, who is with her grandmother now, while the girl is missing. The children also confided they saw Jacob sleeping with the girl inmates.”

According to reports, Jacob had established Grace Home in 1999 and had staffed it with people from UP, Mumbai, and Ukhrul (in Manipur). He is believed to have used relatives of his first wife, who hailed from Ukhrul, to traffic children. Further, John himself was also visiting Ukhrul, since 1997, where he preached at Tuinem Baptist Church and Nepali Baptist Church.

Jacob was arrested on May 2 by the Nagaland police and later arrested by the Manipuri police on June 13 and is currently being tried in court. It is believed that between 2005 and 2012, for seven years, he had sexually exploited not only the girls he had confined in his illegal home, but also the women staff he had hired.

First allegations surface in 2007

The first allegations regarding the trafficking activities carried out Pastor Jacob John in his ‘Grace Home’ appears to have surfaced in 2007. Veerendra Singh Rana, a VHP member had lodged a complaint accusing the wardens of the Grace Home of indulging in trafficking and prostitution. Following this complaint, the police had reportedly visited the Grace Home and interrogated the wardens on October 15, 2007. But, apparently, neither any formal complaint was registered, nor any action was taken.

US State Department’s 2008 report cites 2007 incident under ‘discrimination’

Though, the police chose to ignore the allegations against Pastor Jacob John in 2007 and did not even carry out a proper investigation beyond the nominal interrogation of the wardens, if one were to read US State Department’s 2008 report, one would get the impression that Jacob and his Grace Home was ‘persecuted’ and ‘discriminated’ by the Hindutva people and the Indian State.

The International Religious Freedom Report 2008, prepared by the US State Department cites the above incident under its “Section III. Societal Abuses and Discrimination”, thereby explicitly branding a simple police investigation based on a complaint regarding trafficking as ‘abuse’ and ‘discrimination.’

The report then tries to downplay the allegations against Pastor Jacob John by insinuating that the complainant is a suspect in a case regarding an attack on some other pastor and hence his allegations are motivated and aimed at harassing Pastor Jacob John. It notes: “On October 15, 2007, local police came to the Father’s Children Home in Jaipur and interrogated its warden, Jacob John, said Sajan K. George of the Global Council of Indian Christians. Veerendra Singh Rana, one of the prime suspects of another attack on a pastor, lodged the complaint accusing the wardens of Father’s Children Home in Jaipur of indulging in human trafficking and prostitution. The police did not lodge a formal complaint.”

Incidentally, a similar argument was put forward by a Christian watchdog ‘World Watch Monitor’ in its 2007 report of the incident. It states: “A Hindu extremist who was the primary suspect in a televised attack on a pastor in Rajasthan’s capital of Jaipur earlier this year has now accused a Christian orphanage of human trafficking and prostitution. On October 15, local police came to the Father’s Children Home in Jaipur and interrogated its warden, Jacob John, said Dr. Sajan K. George of the Global Council of Indian Christians. Police told John that Veerendra Singh Rana, who is out on bail, had filed the complaint with the state home minister, Gulab Chand Kataria, charging them with flesh trade. About 30 children live in the orphanage. Rana, a leader of the Vishwa Hindu Parishad (World Hindu Council), had led a violent attack on Pastor Walter Masih before a private TV channel’s camera on April 29…….Christians complain that the state government ruled by the Hindu nationalist Bharatiya Janata Party is giving a free hand to Hindu extremists to launch anti-Christian attacks”

This is a prime example of the US State department passing off motivated and biased religious propaganda from evangelical organizations as “reporting.” It is interesting to note the similarity in the content and the language of the report by the “Christian watchdog” and the US State Department report. Both tried to pass of the allegation against Pastor Jacob John as false and motivated; both tried to portray the entire 2007 incident as discrimination, bordering on persecution. The only difference is the US State department report tries to give an appearance of neutrality, while the original evangelical “report” minces no words in holding Hindus and “Hindu organizations” guilty. While the evangelicals can be explicit in their Hinduphobia, the State Department displays the same prejudices couched in more diplomatic language.

Apparently, complaining about horrendous abuse by a Christian priest is an “anti-Christian attack”. What other conclusion can be drawn from this other than that the US State is an active enabler of this abuse? Moreover, international outrage does make the police in India more circumspect about taking action. It is possible that the ignorant, biased reporting from the US State delayed Jacob John’s arrest and allowed the abuse to go on for much longer.

US Department’s 2014 reports silent about Pastor Jacob, despite his arrest

Even if one were to grant a benefit of doubt to the US State Department for their downplaying of the allegations against Pastor Jacob John in 2007, it is hard to miss that the US Department’s reports for the year 2014 fails to mention about Jacob even once, despite the fact that Jacob’s trafficking activities had been exposed, and he was arrested in 2013.

A search for keywords like ‘Pastor Jacob’ ‘Jacob’ ‘John’ ‘Grace Home’, etc. through the US State Department’s 2014 reports on Human Rights, Trafficking, and International Religious Freedom, returned ‘zero’ results.

It is interesting to note that the 2014 Human Rights report does not miss to note on its page 43 that: “There were reports that women and girls in symbolic marriages to Hindu deities were victims of rape or sexual abuse at the hands of priests and temple patrons- a form of sex trafficking.” Yet, it somehow fails to make even a single mention of Pastor Jacob John. This silence on the part of US State Department regarding the gross sexual abuse and trafficking practiced by a Christian Pastor is very disturbing and exposes that the US reporting is not about “religious freedom”, but about facilitating the expansion of Christianity, whatever the costs.

On the one hand, US State Department’s reports are full of incidents, which are rightly or wrongly perceived as threats to the evangelical agenda of the Church. On the other hand, they either turn a blind eye or go to great lengths to cover up any incidents, which tend to expose the crimes committed by the evangelical groups, Churches and Christian clergy. And this is not the first time that the US Departments have tried to cover up a clergy sexual abuse scandal either. USCIRF, which submits its annual reports to the US President, the Secretary of State, and the Congress, for example, has indulged in similar activities many times over the last decade.

The incident of Pastor Jacob John serves as a case study for the inherent agenda in the reports released by the US State Department. Reports from USCIRF and US State Departments on “religious freedom” are part of an evangelical crusade in which India remains a soft target. They need to be treated with the contempt they deserve.

In conjuction to above indian Presstitutes like Outlook will on any given day ignore above reports of blatant Christian & Islamic institutional child sexual abuse and instead report on tribal children being raised by RSS affiliated orgs in their residential schools labeling it as trafficking, Betiuthao , OperationBabylift etc & depicting them as camps of Hindutva indoctrination - as if raising a child in Hindu values is a heinous offence compared to the rampant sexual abuse which takes place in Christian orphanages & Muslim madarsas.

tags: Neha Dixit , krishna prasad , Raheja Group , Indranil Roy

habal · Post by **habal** » 22 Aug 2016 19:56

Default ABC News exposes its own Poll Fraud. 145,000 polled!!! Trump at 70%; Hillary at 8%

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 23 Aug 2016 21:03

Came across a CNN report on how Israel has 200,000 people who can vote in the US presidential elections. So decided to see comparative numbers in India and came across the following unrelated, but, important data points:

This Survey Shows How Indian-Americans Plan to Vote in the U.S. Election

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 23 Aug 2016 21:12

Slight OT:

Rahul M wrote:guys, we have the understanding US thread for politics discussion.

Babumoshai,

Where did that thread go? Could not find it on my cursory look.

More specifically, I am looking for the post that had 8-10 bunch of oldie feminists with hateful quotes against males. I think it was posted in that thread.

I think Gagan responded to that by saying "these have nothing to lose" but unable to find it.

Lilo · Post by **Lilo** » 23 Aug 2016 21:37

Satya_anveshi wrote: More specifically, I am looking for the post that had 8-10 bunch of oldie feminists with hateful quotes against males. I think it was posted in that thread.

I think Gagan responded to that by saying "these have nothing to lose" but unable to find it.

viewtopic.php?p=2026064#p2026064

Satya_anveshi · Post by **Satya_anveshi** » 23 Aug 2016 21:41

Thanks Lilo. Yes, that's the one.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 24 Aug 2016 07:27

Latest: somewhere between 10,000 - 25,000 people reside in India that are eligible to vote in the US elections in Nov. A 2006 estimate was at 65,000.

Interesting data point:

Modi-Obama bond is passé, its time for Parrikar-Carter bonhomie

"The two ministers have decided that they will visit and meet each other in every three to four months to discuss security situations and the progress of their military and defence hardware cooperation," highly placed defence sources told THE WEEK.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 24 Aug 2016 09:01

Every 3 or 4 months? The report seems to be rubbish.

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 24 Aug 2016 18:28

Anja Manuel wrote:Over several decades, Britain decided to accommodate the rise of the United States, believing that the United States would generally align itself with the rules of the international system Britain had established, and eventually help share the burden of supporting this order by keeping the seas free for navigation, and trade mostly open.

While Anja Manuels book is good, there are some assumptions made. Her perspective is very positive about India.

The above quote is not accurate. The current international system was established in 1648 after the 30 years Catholic v Protestant war which culminated with the treaty of Westphalia. I do not think either China or India were asked about this. So for US to say it will accommodate India and China anyway, is off the mark.

I believe somehow the US deep state accepts China as a natural ally and it has assisted its gradual rise since 1970's.

Multilingual diverse India makes no sense to them as it made no sense to the Brits.