India's Retaliation Options to significant terrorist strikes

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 20 Sep 2016 08:06

Karthik S wrote:+1, just having 3 tweets for last 2 days is not the way you deal with present situation.

Before we do anything significant militarily he will have to and then stick to it.

I think he may be busy working out the details.

But I have a feeling he will do a television appearance.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 20 Sep 2016 08:10

The way to deal with Pakistan will have to be carefully calibrated and options and variables gamed.
GoI will respond, but this is never going to be what jingos want right away - instant gratification.
Why do people forget the 400% increase in the whinefest on Paki TV channels in just 2 years?
The steps that were taken after Pathankot, have resulted in the PM making announcements on Aug 15. Groundwork was set in motion then.
For example, AIR stations were upgraded, plans made for baloch language transmissions etc, initial contacts made with regional players etc.
I don't think this GoI was sleeping after Pathankot.

But reflex action right before the UNGA will not happen.
This is Pakistan lashing out in terror & desperation because they are begining to see a certain pattern emerging and a certain writing on the wall.

There will be more terror strikes on India now to try and provoke a response and paki attempts to pre-empt things. Their agents amongst the criminals, politicians and media are going to get a lot of employment in india too.

I say, just watch things unfold

Guddu · Post by **Guddu** » 20 Sep 2016 08:17

Karthik S wrote:
Guddu wrote:Or this is exactly what he will do....18 killed is a sufficient reason for a response...Infact hearing it, I feel confident that he will do something.
Was pathankot not sufficient reason for a response?

Yes, for jingoes...every Indian life is precious...but in reality its not sufficient for overt action.

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 20 Sep 2016 08:34

RoyG..totally agree on Modi going on Tv..obama was on TV in wake of recent NY bombing in which no one was killed.. We are shouting world to declare Pakistan is a terrorist country and yet we maintain diplomatic relations... wtf.. we should have immeditately cut off PIA overflt.. diplomatic relations.. cut off all trade.. dont know what kind of fools man the foreign office. Air strikes is the way to go ..for 1 indian soldier we shoud promise 10 dead pakis. the moment air strike happens..pakis will be forced to respond..and unkil will call them to excercise "strategic restraint"..that will be funny. if we are sure of our air superiority then Air action is the answer. ground action is messy and can be a follow up of any escalation. we can safely bomb significant paki assets even without crossing LOC.. but a crossing of LOC will be advised to show now we dont care a sh&t about"sanctiity of LOC" crap which was started by Vajpayee. Pakis are not upto starting a covert war..which they know they will suffer badly. Strikes in POK are also necessary to show CEPC is a risky investment in a war zone. we have all things to gain ...

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 20 Sep 2016 08:44

with a such a proposed significant economic activity happening in POK and Balochistan..wonder why we not doing more aggressive action. arming Afghanis to start a second front along with balochis will be well advised.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 20 Sep 2016 11:44

Apocalypse alert: How India-Pakistan nuclear war will kill 12 million, destroy two countries
http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/indi ... 67919.html

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 20 Sep 2016 11:49

^^ Tha's how the Bakis want the world to view the situation.

Gagan wrote:Why do people forget the 400% increase in the whinefest on Paki TV channels in just 2 years?

Agree. I would rather hear the pigs squeal in pain as my conformation than hear from the MEA spokesperson forget the PM.

Bakistan has been pushed into a corner. International isolation, Issues with all neighbors, No overt backing except from China, No support even among Muslim countries, economy going to Pakistan, etc) and is lashing out. What more does it have to loose? They are already at the tipping point. This is the use it or loose it philosophy.

India is a rising power and backed by energetic diplomacy is trying to/has created more space and friends for itself in the International order. The gains on isolating Bakistan and improving India's standing has been substantial. Gains should not be frittered sway is a jiffy in anger or by rash action.

That said,
1. No one will fight our wars. That we will have to do it ourselves.
2. Cost HAS to be imposed on Bakistan for its anti-India activities in the short-term even while long-term plans targeting the*root* cause has to be set in motion.
3. Political cost has already been imposed. Just see how isolated they are now in the neighborhood and worldwide. We need to squeeze them on the Economic front but more importantly need impose the cost DIRECTLY on the terrorist army.
4. Our response should not be driven by anger or in haste but by cold calculation for maximum impact with the recognition that till the terrorist army exists it will continue to lash out at us with whatever resources it has on hand. An arty barrage or rocket attack on Muridke is not going to solve that problem though it might assuage some hurt feeling on our side.
5. Modi's goal is (I don't know for sure but looks like or should be) to address the *root* cause. That requires a long-term strategy and is not conducive to *regular* one-upmanship. When you have an organization on the other side at the helm of a sinking ship with the "Use it or loose it" mentality you can never win except by total destruction of that org. CFair is right in her thesis.
6. That is not to say that a *visible* tit-for-tat is undesirable but It cannot be a knee-jerk reaction in anger. It has to be well thought out and if the cost-benefits favor should be executed. It has its use but I will leave it to the wisdom of the current GOI.
7. I would rather look for *proof* of action/reaction in the Baki pigs squealing on prime time in pain and terror than hear it from the a spokesperson of the Army or MEA.
8. If people need a little reassurance, I would have *selected* pieces from Bakis squeals played out on some TV channel rather than have Rajyavardhan Rathod speak.

The latest round of bak-jhak at the UNHCR seems to suggest that the GOI is going to finger all fault-lines within Bakistan. Seems the baloch reference created further repression in Balochistan. The latest reference to Shia, Pastun, Sindhi and Mujjahir is going to further ramp up the fear in the Baki *Establishment*. I think we might be at the beginning of a cycle.

I still feel the best payback will be by going after CPEC in POK and Baluchistan even while the army should quietly do its stuff at the border.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 20 Sep 2016 12:11

In this current crisis,here is the man on the spot,whom the PM will rely upon immensely.Revenge is a dish ebst eaten cold and one can be sure that it will be eaten!

However,I am sceptical what good "exposing" Pak at the UN will do.Everyone knows that Pak is the fountainhead of Islamic terror.The New York bomber has been found to have been indoctrinated in Pakistan and Afghanistan. It will never change its colour or spots.The Paki uniformed tribe is so anti-Indian and radicalised in Islamic terror,that it has to be exterminated or given such a body blow that it cries "uncle".The last time it did was during the Kargil War when the situ was lost and Sharif pleaded with Clinton.

Nothing less than a suspension of diplomatic relations,severe economic sanctions by India,ban on overflights,sanctions against eco entities doing business with Pak,especially global arms manufacturers,will cause it to drawback and perhaps scale down the terror strikes.Nawaz Sharif is hand-in-glove with the Paki military this time. We need to prepare and plan for tri-service military action immediately.The shortcomings ion eqpt.,ammo,etc.plaguing the 3 services needs to be set right as of yesterday.There is no time to lose.WE need to sieze the window of opportunity
that has presented itself with this attack when the global community is with us.The Russians cancelling the planned mil exercises with Pak is a slap in its face.The next step should be a savage kick to its nether regions and make it howl in pain.

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/ ... ign-policy

Photographer: Arun Sankar/AFP via Getty Images
India's 007, Former Super Spy, Is Shaping Modi's Foreign Policy
Doval has supported a nationalist agenda, military expansion.
Natalie Obiko Pearson
natalieobiko
September 19, 2016 — 3:30 AM IST

He spent seven years undercover in Pakistan, recruited rebels as informants in disputed Kashmir, and once disguised himself as a rickshaw driver to infiltrate a militant group inside India’s holiest Sikh temple. Now some consider Ajit Doval the most powerful person in India after Prime Minister Narendra Modi.
Modi picked Doval as his National Security Advisor, a position that holds more sway than the ministers of defense and foreign affairs. It puts Doval in charge of talks with arch-rival Pakistan. He visits arms manufacturers to discuss strategic capabilities, and orchestrates the response to militant attacks, liaising daily with Foreign Secretary S. Jaishankar, the nation’s top diplomat.
Since Doval took the job, he has supported a nationalist agenda while adopting a tougher line against hostile neighbors. That has growing economic ramifications as China funds a $45 billion trade corridor through Pakistan that bypasses India and as both China and India eye resource-rich neighbors in central Asia like Afghanistan.
Ajit Doval leaves the Home Ministry after a high level meeting on Kashmir issue in July 2016.
Ajit Doval leaves the Home Ministry after a high level meeting on Kashmir issue in July 2016. Photographer: Arun Sharma/Hindustan Times via Getty Images
“Every strategic issue in this region involves security in a way that it doesn’t in other regions,” says R. K. Sawhney, a former director general of military intelligence who’s known Doval for nearly two decades. “As the profile of the country grows, the profile of the national security advisor grows.”
Short, trim and bespectacled, Doval shuns the limelight and rarely appears in public. His office said he wasn’t available for an interview. Six people who have known him personally for years—some of whom requested not to be identified because he dislikes publicity—said Doval is overseeing India’s most delicate diplomatic issues.
Shortly after taking office, Modi sent Doval as his special envoy to Afghanistan and brought him on his first foreign trip to Bhutan. He’s also special representative in charge of talks with China over a disputed border, a task made more difficult as China plans to invest millions into transportation links through Kashmir, an area claimed by both India and Pakistan.
In December, Doval flew to Bangkok for a secret meeting with his Pakistani counterpart in an effort to restart peace talks between the two nuclear-armed nations.
‘James Bond’
“He’s known as an Indian James Bond—he has this larger than life persona,” said Sadanand Dhume, a fellow at the American Enterprise Institute in Washington. “There are tales and stories and legends attached to him that are very unusual in a national security advisor.”
Among the most famous concerns his part in the 1988 military operation that flushed Sikh separatists from the Golden Temple in Amritsar in northwestern India. According to Karan Kharb, a retired army officer who was one of the National Security Guard commandos involved, Doval posed as a rickshaw puller to gain entry to the temple. He convinced the militants holed up inside he was a Pakistani operative who’d come to help them in their goal of establishing an independent country called Khalistan.
Indian commandos had stormed the temple twice in the previous four years, including an assault in 1984 that left hundreds of soldiers and pilgrims dead, prompting outrage among Sikhs worldwide and triggering the assassination of then-Prime Minister Indira Gandhi, who ordered the strike.
‘Very Innovative’
This time, police had estimated there were no more than 40 people inside the temple, but Doval revealed there were at least 200, convincing the government to drop plans for a raid and instead cut off the water and electricity amid scorching heat, according to Kharb. Nine days later, the militants surrendered.
“Generally, in India, people are very particular, they’re sticklers to the rules,” said Kharb. “Doval sees the spirit in the rule. That’s where he’s different. He’s very innovative and an out-of-the-box thinker.”
Doval’s influence with Modi has drawn criticism from opposition politicians and fueled discontent inside Modi’s administration.
“The country wants to know who is running foreign policy? A spy called Doval or diplomats?” tweeted Ashutosh, a leader from the anti-graft Aam Aadmi Party, after Modi flew to Lahore to meet Pakistan counterpart Nawaz Sharif in a surprise visit that local media said was orchestrated by Doval. “The country is not safe with a spy running diplomacy.”
Ajit Doval, second from left, and other officers inspect the site of a bomb blast in Burdwan, West Bengal, India in October 2014.

Calls for Doval’s replacement intensified after Home Minister Rajnath Singh suffered a politically embarrassing trip to Pakistan in August that Doval pulled out of at the last minute, according to press reports. A spokesman for the prime minister's office declined to answer questions about Doval.
“The best experts on how to deal with terrorism, how to think about diplomacy and foreign affairs—they are not being consulted,” opposition politician Rahul Gandhi, son of former Prime Minister Rajiv Gandhi, said in January. Doval’s job is “strategy, not tactics.”
No government website carries Doval’s profile. A biography provided during a lecture he gave in August 2015 in Mumbai stated he was born in 1945 in Garhwal, in a northern region now called Uttarakhand, and graduated with a master’s degree in economics from the University of Agra in 1967 before joining the police force.
Plastic Surgery

In 1972, he moved to the Intelligence Bureau, where he spent three decades, including stints in the restive regions of India’s northeast, Jammu and Kashmir, and the U.K. Doval is fluent in Urdu, the main language used in Pakistan. He told an audience in November 2014 he had lived in Pakistan for seven years, getting plastic surgery to remove signs his ears had been pierced—an indication of his Hindu roots.
“I haven’t seen anyone else at his level who would continue to come into the field,” said S.S. Virk, former director general of police in Punjab who was shot during the Golden Temple operation and says Doval visited him at the hospital. “He was an outstanding operator.”
Those who know him describe him as a heavy smoker with an almost insatiable thirst for knowledge, taking guests at his home in Noida near New Delhi for drinks in a library in the basement lined from floor to ceiling with hundreds of books.
After retiring from the Intelligence Bureau, Doval founded the Vivekananda International Foundation in 2009. In its red sandstone and concrete headquarters in a tony district of Delhi, Doval has courted foreign diplomats and high-ranking defense officials, striking hawkish, nationalist views that resonated with Modi’s Bharatiya Janata Party.
Ajit Doval meets with Chinese President Xi Jinping in Beijing in September 2014.
Ajit Doval meets with Chinese President Xi Jinping in Beijing in September 2014. Photographer: Lintao Zhang/EPA
“Doval wields more influence than previous national security advisers in part because of his credibility and experience in intelligence and security matters,” said Sameer Patil, who served in the prime minister’s national security council secretariat under the previous Congress government. Patil said it was long rumored that Doval advised Modi even before he was elected prime minister in 2014.
In papers published during that time, Doval argued for a more assertive foreign policy and a beefed up military. He warned of India’s “eroding maritime preeminence" in the Indian Ocean, of Pakistan’s attempts to influence Afghanistan and the Taliban, and said China’s development was "not an assured peaceful rise."
“India has a mindset that, where it hits, it punches below its weight,” he said at the August 2015 lecture. “We have to increase our weight and punch proportionately.”
—With assistance from Iain Marlow and N. C. Bipindra

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 20 Sep 2016 12:15

http://www.defencenews.in/article/Russi ... h_Pakistan

Russia shows solidarity with India ; Calls off military exercise with Pakistan
Tuesday, September 20, 2016
By: Financial Express

Russia's move is a big diplomatic gain for India as the latter had decided to isolate Pakistan at international level. The move comes just a day after 18 soldiers of Indian Army were martyred in a cowardly attack by four highly armed terrorists at an Army camp in Jammu&Kashmir's Uri district.

In an apparent fallout of Uri terror attack, Russia has called off its joint military exercise with Pakistan, CNN-News 18 reported on Monday. Russia’s move is a big diplomatic gain for India as the latter had decided to isolate Pakistan at international level. The move comes just a day after 18 soldiers of Indian Army were martyred in a cowardly attack by four highly armed terrorists at an Army camp in Jammu&Kashmir’s Uri district. Earlier, India had urged Russia to reconsider its decision to hold joint military drills with Pakistan. Pakistan and Russia were scheduled to conduct the ‘Druzhba-2016’ tactical exercises from September 24-October 7 in Rattu and Cherat. The Indian External Affairs Ministry had sent a letter to Kremlin soon after the Islamabad confirmed about excercise. In its letter, India said that Moscow should keep New Delhi’s sensitivity in mind while conducting joint military drills with Pakistan.

In a high-level meeting chaired by Prime Minister Narendra Modi on Monday, India took the decision to diplomatically isolate Pakistan at every international grouping, reported ANI quoting sources. According to the report, India will adopt the strategy to present all actionable evidence against Pakistan if required at international bodies.

It has also been reported that the Indian Permanent Mission to UN will issue a statement taking on Islamabad soon after Pakistan Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif will make his speech at the United Nations General Assembly (UNGA).

maitya · Post by **maitya** » 20 Sep 2016 12:55

Apologies to Gaganji, not really intended to you, but have taken the liberty to respond points from your posts which sums up quite nicely what is being tried here for quite some time. Sorry I'm just too angry to think straight and tone down, some aspects of it which may seem to point directly to you (but that was not the intention).

The way to deal with Pakistan will have to be carefully calibrated and options and variables gamed.

You mean these "options", their required "calibrations" and "gaming of the variables" have just started after the event, so we will need to wait for some time (how much time, is well, another variable, right?) to see them unfolding - right?
A very good indicator of proactive and "strategically" more nationalist government, as everyone is made to believe in the last couple of years - and such lack of foresightedness, does indicate about the "success" of those steps, if (a big if) and when they are executed.

GoI will respond, but this is never going to be what jingos want right away - instant gratification.

Yes - since you are saying so, it must be the case.

In betw, how is the current situation any different from the days post-26/11 wrt GoI purported actions. If I recall there was a collective wailing (me included, so no moral-high-ground assuming etc) about sell-out, american-pressure, log-kya-kehenge fear domination, noble-peace-prize aspirations etc etc etc.
Pray tell us why those same epithets doesn't apply anymore to this current GoI.
Or is it that BRF is well ahead of the curve that we have so fondly started believing in, that precludes us from doing so?

Why do people forget the 400% increase in the whinefest on Paki TV channels in just 2 years?

Convenient amnesia is it?
These whine-fest was there even before last 2 years as well - there used to be a series of "towels" thread (and you used to be an enthusiastic contributor) then, you may want to refer to it (in the archives).

The steps that were taken after Pathankot, have resulted in the PM making announcements on Aug 15. Groundwork was set in motion then.
For example, AIR stations were upgraded, plans made for baloch language transmissions etc, initial contacts made with regional players etc.
I don't think this GoI was sleeping after Pathankot.

It was actually - because apart from dosa-lobbing and joint-probe dramabazi, exactly in the template of the previous GoI regime's "action" post 26/11 and other such "incidents".

But reflex action right before the UNGA will not happen.
This is Pakistan lashing out in terror & desperation because they are beginning to see a certain pattern emerging and a certain writing on the wall.

Again assertion - a counter assertion can be is that the pathetic pigs have successfully gamed the "only-talk-but-no-action" operating-mode of this GoI and is taking the full advantage of pulling the chaddi to the ankles via these forums.

There will be more terror strikes on India now to try and provoke a response and paki attempts to pre-empt things. Their agents amongst the criminals, politicians and media are going to get a lot of employment in india too.

Yes quite true - but that has always been the case, so what's so special about this GoI.
Wrt "employment opportunities" - well, similarly it seems there is already (and there will be much more for sure) a lot of employment opportunities for those "spinners" (trying to spin grand-strategic-theories to obfuscate clueless-and-rank-cowardliness), "headline management" wallahs and "joiners" (desperately trying to "join" random accidents or incidents to some grand action by GoI - there's already an attempt in this very thread).

I say, just watch things unfold

Yes - we will see, but not with the coloured/biased specs that you (and many others) have decided to put on.
After all there's a long list of Aar-par-ki-ladai to 11-heads-on-a-petard to muh-tod-jawab etc needs accounting for.

Till then, to us this is as cowardly and clueless a GoI as was the previous ones, particularly the last one - same-to-same!!

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 20 Sep 2016 13:12

maitya wrote:Till then, to us this is as cowardly and clueless a GoI as was the previous ones, particularly the last one - same-to-same!!

From Alexander's statement, "I am not afraid of an army of lions led by a sheep; I am afraid of an army of sheep led by a lion", the first part is played out in Gurdaspur, Pathankot and Uri.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 20 Sep 2016 13:15

The IA has very successfully extracted vengeance for each and every atrocity that the pakis have caused on the border/LOC. It will not be made public by the Army PRO, nor will it be discussed in talk shows.

This is the IA's fight and they will sort it out at the time and place of their choosing. The politicos do not control individual commanders on the front and the Govt neither wants to know nor will it impede any local operations. This govt has, long ago, undone the shackles that the previous govt had placed on the IA.

"Time and place of our choosing" is a phrase well understood by the PA and used purposely by the IA for the PA's specific consumption.

The white hot rage in the IA by far outstrips anything that any civilian joker can show or even conceive of. Make no mistake, it's their boys who have been butchered and again, it's their boys who will silently strike.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 20 Sep 2016 13:16

The first act that the GOI should do is to acquire as of yesterday as many S-400 regiments that we can from Russia with full publicity.It will thus call Pak's nuclear bluff,that we are ready and prepared for an N-war in which Pak will be exterminated from the face of the earth.The pending arms deals that have been delayed for years should be swiftly sealed with leasing from Russia as much of mil eqpt. that will make a difference in a swift war that may be thrust upon us by the Pakis.This is because even if we seal these deals,it will take at least 3-4 years before new eqpt. arrives. Aircraft (from existing stock),MBRLs ,MBTs,missiles,subs,etc. are readily available for sale/lease. Likewise there may be some sensitive eqpt. that we may acquire from Israel,including cyberwarfare tech,etc. The qty and character of our N-arsenal is unknown,but in no scenario can we be inferior in numbers to Pak as we have to deal with a Sino-Pak JV.

While our attention has been turned westwards,could this also be a devious plot by China to draw our attention away from our eastern and northern sectors?

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 20 Sep 2016 13:46

Until and unless there is a public and overt retaliation by IA, the indian public will go to bed thinking their people got murdered and nothing was done.

Modi made promises about dealing with TSP. Granted, the situation wrt our defense capabilities was likely 10x worse than he anticipated. But he has had time & he has to start fixing the issue, even if its arty duels.

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 20 Sep 2016 13:48

more S 400...this way we would be always waiting !! for some new fancy toy?

Sicanta · Post by **Sicanta** » 20 Sep 2016 13:59

http://swarajyamag.com/politics/after-p ... ted-acting

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 20 Sep 2016 14:31

chetak wrote:The IA has very successfully extracted vengeance for each and every atrocity that the pakis have caused on the border/LOC. It will not be made public by the Army PRO, nor will it be discussed in talk shows.
.................

And that IMO is also part of the problem. I'm no soldier but I believe that wars are won through media and perception as much as they are on the ground. If few people know what IA did, how do we stand proud that they did it?

Public morale is always an important fuel to power wars. The Pakistani public is energized every time they hear of a strike. The Indian public loses a little faith every time we do not hear of a retaliation, disproportionate or otherwise. The Pakistani Army struts up and down proclaiming a win, because the defeats are hardly ever made public. The professional Indian Army has its losses publicized all over the world, it's wins go under the radar.

This is not a sustainable cycle, nor is it an acceptable paradigm- something will give soon.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 20 Sep 2016 15:01

Got this on Email

Post Uri, a lot of people have been talking about all out war with Pakistan while some have said we must ignore and move on.

Amid all this, from various thoughts n posts received I suggest asf as the sanest.

//Yes, action is required and it must be seen n demonstrably so too.

Action short of war, which requires mobilisation, there can be other actions.//

01. Recall all our citizens from Pakistan
02. Instruct all Pakistani citizens in India to depart.
03. Stop the train service.
04. Stop the bus service.
05. RECALL our High Commissioner.
06. Declare Pakistan's HC in Delhi persona-non-grata.
07. Do NOT open the gate at Wagah.
08. Suspend all borderb trade at Kaman.
09. Start marking our passports "Not Valid for Pakistan".
10. Withdraw the MFN status to Pakistan immediately.
11. Stop imports from Pakistan even the ones routed through Dubai.
12. Stop ships which have called on Pakistani ports from entering Indian waters.
13. Stop refuelling ships, which intend to call on Pakistani ports.
14. Above two measures should be adopted for flights too.
15. Stop issuing new visas to Pakistanis, except on Medical grounds.
16. Visa work should be handed over to our embassy in Iran.
17. Release water from dams on rivers on Indus river system "for repairs and maintenance" and then reduce the flow to refill again.
18. At the very least, we can proclaim that we reserve the right to detain and check ANY OR ALL SHIPS HEADING FOR KARACHI PORT, FOR ILLEGAL ARMS, AMMUNITION AND DRUGS.
To expect, that Pakistan would remain silent and inactive, when we undertake measures in Baluchistan is rather naive.

Lastly outsource the targeting n destruction of the terror training camps n their leaders

This will be positive action n we can answer the families of the brave soldiers

If you agree with me circulate this

I hv already sent this to the PMO

Capt Ajay Handa

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 20 Sep 2016 15:08

Baikul wrote:
chetak wrote:The IA has very successfully extracted vengeance for each and every atrocity that the pakis have caused on the border/LOC. It will not be made public by the Army PRO, nor will it be discussed in talk shows.
.................
And that IMO is also part of the problem. I'm no soldier but I believe that wars are won through media and perception as much as they are on the ground. If few people know what IA did, how do we stand proud that they did it?

Public morale is always an important fuel to power wars. The Pakistani public is energized every time they hear of a strike. The Indian public loses a little faith every time we do not hear of a retaliation, disproportionate or otherwise. The Pakistani Army struts up and down proclaiming a win, because the defeats are hardly ever made public. The professional Indian Army has its losses publicized all over the world, it's wins go under the radar.

This is not a sustainable cycle, nor is it an acceptable paradigm- something will give soon.

Then one should elect leaders with testicular fortitude.

Until then, the IA will have to go about it in a way that is permitted to it.

During kargil, the IA fought for the country and not for any "namby pamby", do not cross the border leader.

They tied the hands of the Forces, then too. Needless battle casualties were caused because of the silly constraints. The pakis were free to cross the LOC but not the IA / IAF??

Then, as now, I do not recall any "kadi nindaa" type sacrifices made by the families of our great "leaders" or even senior baboo(n)s, most of whose kids are safely ensconced abroad.

Rather like the hurriyat and other kashmiri "leaders", no??

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 20 Sep 2016 15:15

#12. We really need to do that. Pakistan might try a JDAM attack.
Will encourage other nations to follow suit
#18. This has been done in the past, when a NoKo ship was intercepted, which had missile building machinery. Foreign diplomutts were shown this, but ofcourse no sanctions were imposed on Pakistan, and no further sanctions were imposable on NoKo.

The greatest fear is that given that NoKo has now tested a 15KT device, this will make its way to Pakistan sooner or later.
This N weapon program of Pakistan has to be dealt with, as it is holding back GoI's overt retaliation now

Amoghvarsha · Post by **Amoghvarsha** » 20 Sep 2016 15:22

LOC lights up.Is it our boys?

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 20 Sep 2016 15:48

Has it begun?
Yay!

Amoghvarsha · Post by **Amoghvarsha** » 20 Sep 2016 15:56

Gagan wrote:Has it begun?
Yay!

Likely.Napsks dont dare to start in day light.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 20 Sep 2016 16:18

Retaliation needed to be public and massive. I am not talking about IA taking steps. I am talking about GOI taking steps. Let IA do what it want to do. But this time, they have to do it openly. GOI need to take nonmilitary steps, and there is a range of options many gurus here mentioned. If GOI does not do that, then there is massive loss of face for India and this NDA Gov.

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 20 Sep 2016 17:02

Our spokesperson saying Bakis violated cease fire in Uri sector...

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 20 Sep 2016 17:06

I think PM is waiting for UNGA.
He will be disappointed with the results there. Although most nations will side with india, these will be words only.

I feel and hope that once he gets back, there will be an adress to the nation & things will begin in rightful earnest

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 20 Sep 2016 17:07

8 terrorists shot dead as per the Tv reports? Friend was seeing Timesnow and phoned me.

ragupta · Post by **ragupta** » 20 Sep 2016 17:52

Make it 10 and counting.
additional 5 in Afghanistan
3 in peshawar
....
Keep it up, no terrorists should be alive.

Haresh · Post by **Haresh** » 20 Sep 2016 19:55

Many years ago in the early 1990's I used to work for a Indian company in the UK.
The owner was the son of a rich Bollywood type. He & his brother had inherited the business from their father.

Rude, arrogant, ignorant, greedy rats from Mumbhai.

Anyway, long story short, there were intense artillery exchanges going on at the time.
He had a paki in the office he was trying to do business with.

The radio was on and it was the news item.
His response was to have a go at me and order me to turn it off, as if it was all my fault. Being the lone Punjabi/Sikh in the office it was of course all my fault.

Is this sort of attitude widespread? Is it really about not rocking the boat because it might affect business??

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 20 Sep 2016 20:14

Philip wrote:The first act that the GOI should do is to acquire as of yesterday as many S-400 regiments that we can from Russia with full publicity.It will thus call Pak's nuclear bluff,that we are ready and prepared for an N-war in which Pak will be exterminated from the face of the earth.The pending arms deals that have been delayed for years should be swiftly sealed with leasing from Russia as much of mil eqpt. that will make a difference in a swift war that may be thrust upon us by the Pakis.This is because even if we seal these deals,it will take at least 3-4 years before new eqpt. arrives. Aircraft (from existing stock),MBRLs ,MBTs,missiles,subs,etc. are readily available for sale/lease. Likewise there may be some sensitive eqpt. that we may acquire from Israel,including cyberwarfare tech,etc. The qty and character of our N-arsenal is unknown,but in no scenario can we be inferior in numbers to Pak as we have to deal with a Sino-Pak JV.

While our attention has been turned westwards,could this also be a devious plot by China to draw our attention away from our eastern and northern sectors?

Once we acquire s-400, then you will say s-500 is needed. Where does it stop? You fight with what you have. Blood and guts compensates for what you don't have. Russians know it the best. Their most glorious moments in history didn't come because of some uber platinum rated equipment, but because they were never short on blood and raw courage.

Wars especially the existential struggles are won foremost by citizens with guts, not by citizens whose sole expertise is prostituting foreign weaponry.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 20 Sep 2016 21:23

Before we start jumping on the Prime Minister and his govt for not doing anything, please note that if a military option is not possible at this time, is because previous governments have been ignoring the military's requests for quicker acquisitions of vital equipment. It is easy to say we should fight with what we have...but a sizeable amount of what we have does not work or is just not available to work. Low Sukhoi serviceability, hangar queen MiG-29Ks, Klub missiles that are deficient, a submarine force that is woefully outdated, air-to-air missiles which are ageing way before their time, infantry troops not having the requisite body armor...the list goes on. Manmohan Singh was too busy chasing after the Nobel Prize and could care less about the military and that attitude was clearly displayed in his mini-me - AK Antony. That man was only there to defend the furniture at South Block and nothing else.

Now while the above is true, India has some dangerous hardware that can give Pakistan second thoughts before they do this again. Someone mentioned the artillery earlier and I think that is an appropriate response for this latest terrorist attack. While the Indian Army has not acquired a single artillery gun since the Bofors tamasha, the artillery corps does have the BrahMos, the Pinaka, the Smerch and even the Bofors howitzer itself. Fire all - in the direction of Pakistan - at strategic locations and you see how quickly they start whining. None of them involves going into Pakistani territory, but the message will be soundly received. A couple of BrahMos should be lobbed at ISI headquarters as well. If Pakistan wants to escalate the conflict from there, so be it. India will respond. If Pakistan wants to go to the International Court of Justice, so be it. India will respond. If Pakistan responds with more terrorist attacks, so be it. India will respond. Let Pakistan escalate, India only responds to the escalation. Not the other way around.

On the diplomatic front, India should make it clear. Enough is enough. Indian Lives Matter. India will respond. If Pakistan wants to hide behind the excuse that they are spineless and cannot control the LeT, the JeM...then India will have to. But no more terrorist strikes on India.

Prime Minister Modi maybe considering a military response. But the time will have to be of his choosing. Yes it is frustrating, but never shoot from the hip. Never a knee jerk reaction. Give him the benefit of the doubt.

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 20 Sep 2016 21:58

^^^ Wait till November???

kit · Post by **kit** » 20 Sep 2016 22:05

If i remember right quite a few terror camps are within striking distance of MLRS and brahmos .. i hope the pakis get a few dozen on them this time instead of just artillery barrages ( now it seems just like a old chaps effort to satisfy his young wife !! ) ,, rather let the enjoyment spread across a few hundred km towards Rawalpindi !!

ragupta · Post by **ragupta** » 20 Sep 2016 22:17

It is strange that many here expect knee jerk reaction from Govt of starting a war or overtly launching strike. All long term effort of strengthening, isolating and creating problem from all sides for Napaks is being forgotten.

True, I would love to see Napaks obliterated from the face of this earth in an instance. But practically it will not happen in a day. Let them live in constant fear, they plan to bleed India by 1000 cut, India is planning to response with 100000 cut and slowly bleed Napaks to death.

Napaks like halal style, serve them that way.

Loosing faith and temper is not the way to response to these terror attacks.
Full faith in current Govt to make it happen.

Both internal and external enemies are being exposed slowly with their outburst and opinion.

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 20 Sep 2016 22:23

chetak wrote:
Baikul wrote:
And that IMO is also part of the problem. I'm no soldier but I believe that wars are won through media and perception as much as they are on the ground. If few people know what IA did, how do we stand proud that they did it?

Public morale is always an important fuel to power wars. The Pakistani public is energized every time they hear of a strike. The Indian public loses a little faith every time we do not hear of a retaliation, disproportionate or otherwise. The Pakistani Army struts up and down proclaiming a win, because the defeats are hardly ever made public. The professional Indian Army has its losses publicized all over the world, it's wins go under the radar.

This is not a sustainable cycle, nor is it an acceptable paradigm- something will give soon.
Then one should elect leaders with testicular fortitude.

Until then, the IA will have to go about it in a way that is permitted to it.

During kargil, the IA fought for the country and not for any "namby pamby", do not cross the border leader.

They tied the hands of the Forces, then too. Needless battle casualties were caused because of the silly constraints. The pakis were free to cross the LOC but not the IA / IAF??

Then, as now, I do not recall any "kadi nindaa" type sacrifices made by the families of our great "leaders" or even senior baboo(n)s, most of whose kids are safely ensconced abroad.

Rather like the hurriyat and other kashmiri "leaders", no??

I'm not blaming the IA. I 'm speaking of the same thing as you- the spinelessness shown by our political leadership.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 20 Sep 2016 22:39

deejay wrote:^^^ Wait till November???

Sorry what?

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 20 Sep 2016 22:44

Rakesh wrote:
deejay wrote:^^^ Wait till November???
Sorry what?

Sorry just frustrated comment. Nothing.

sivab · Post by **sivab** » 20 Sep 2016 22:44

https://twitter.com/manakgupta/status/7 ... 9439542272

Manak GuptaVerified account
‏@manakgupta
10 men killed by Indian army near / across LOC were Pak army regulars....!!!! And not terrorists. (Sources)

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 20 Sep 2016 22:45

ragupta wrote:It is strange that many here expect knee jerk reaction from Govt of starting a war or overtly launching strike. All long term effort of strengthening, isolating and creating problem from all sides for Napaks is being forgotten.

True, I would love to see Napaks obliterated from the face of this earth in an instance. But practically it will not happen in a day. Let them live in constant fear, they plan to bleed India by 1000 cut, India is planning to response with 100000 cut and slowly bleed Napaks to death.

Napaks like halal style, serve them that way.

Loosing faith and temper is not the way to response to these terror attacks.
Full faith in current Govt to make it happen.

Both internal and external enemies are being exposed slowly with their outburst and opinion.

Sorry boss, time is a luxury we do not have. Thanks but no thanks. Govt has to take action. Sooner rather than later. And this cannot be just one action. It has to be a process which includes both kinetic and non kinetic approaches resulting in eventual dissolution of islamic Pakistan.

By the way I have full faith in the govt. I will wait out its complete term. If suitable action is not initiated, then I will sit out the next elections 2019. That's it. Cut and Dried.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 20 Sep 2016 22:46

deejay wrote:
Rakesh wrote: Sorry what?
Sorry just frustrated comment. Nothing.

Ok.