Terror Attack At Army Camp In Jammu And Kashmir's Uri

SRoy · Post by **SRoy** » 20 Sep 2016 21:19

My only post on this topic on a somewhat tangential issue.

Way back in 2014, I made a post that I'm not too hopeful of a former policeman being the NSA, notwithstanding his stint as an undercover operative in various theatre.

Now we have a spectacle of two strikes on military establishments in a single calendar year and NSA in office for the two and half years seems have no tricks in his bag.

Does the NSA thinks Uri attack was an internal security issue? How does even MHA comes into the picture?

Didn't see anything that remotely suggest that the NSA is working in tandem with MoD to tame a rouge neighbour.

I believe the mind in NSA chair needs to be war monger who exists to wage war and guides all relevant organs of the govt. accordingly. A policeman, even if he lived to be a spy for some part of his life cannot think like that, only a battle hardened soldier can. A warlord.

Actually, the choice of NSA also betrays the distrusts of the military in the political circles. Modi govt. has inherited the trait.

Let's also discount the SF strikes inside Mynamar, lest someone touts that as an example of the NSA's achievement. That compared to Pakistan is a challenge in totally different scale, complexity and capability. Half way through the tenure nothing is visible that suggest that gap has been plugged.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 20 Sep 2016 21:24

kapilrdave wrote:People are demanding for either a full fledged war with Pakis or a punitive strike.

1. The war option
The war needs to have a clear objective without which it is meaningless. What should be our objective of war? Presumably breaking pakistan into at least two pieces (like we did in 1971). This is not a small feat and requires a lot of planning, stockpiling and diplomatic preparation for the world opinion to be favorable when the war finally ends. Only few at the top know how much time will it take to sufficiently prepare for the war militarily after UPA's disastrous 10 years rule. But we can already see the diplomatic efforts to convert the world opinion in favor of India.

2. Punitive strike option
This is a fair demand but unfortunately wrt pakis it will be fruitless as we know that sole purpose of their existence is to destroy India. So while it will send some shiver in their salvar, it will not deter them eternally. They will keep practicing their 1000 cuts doctrine.

So while punitive strike will give some satisfaction to us and save our H&D for the time being, it doesn't solve any problem. The only solution is
to break pakistan into multiple pieces which we can handle easily. We MUST move forward in this direction only. We MUST NOT be distracted from this objective. The option of punitive strike might be counter productive towards this objective.

What I think is (which can be dismissed as wishful thinking as well, but still I will present my opinion) that MAD has a clear cut plan to break pakistan in a definite timeline. They are advancing in their plan but the right time has not come yet. They don't want to be distracted in their plan, especially when it is working (referring to creating a favorable world opinion). As far as I can see, they are preparing militarily as well. They have put adequate resources on chinese border to check their moves during an Ind vs. Pak scenario. The real challenge here is that how fast we can defeat pakistan in a war. This is essential because we don't want to give china enough time to make their moves. Game needs to be finished before anyone can react.

Are we sufficiently equipped to do that? May be we are not currently.
When is the earliest we can be prepared for this? Time will tell!

The part I highlighted in your post is the third option. As you rightly said, a punitive strike is futile as it gives only immediate satisfaction to the reptilian brain which hits out in survival mode.
The proper response is to recognize Pakistan has chosen eternal enmity and such an entity has only one answer total destruction. This option satisfies the neo cortex and is the creative brain. We see Pakistan as part of the Partition process. In reality its part of the West Asia stretching from Mediterranean that was created by the Sykes-Picot pact. That compact is collapsing all over. Pakistan too is collapsing as its an artificial state. Instead of India facing thousand cuts, it is Pakistan that is tearing itself apart: Khyber-Pashtunwa, Baluchistan, Sindh, POK all the ethnicities are revolting against Pakjabi domination wrapped in Islamist rhetoric.

India under NaMo has first recognized the Baluchistan fault line and is supporting the freedom cause regardless of who is supporting Pakistan from US to China.

Pakistan wants to shift the theater to POK where it can drag in international powers. India should play where it has chosen.

Now coming to the part in large font, China is in no situation of facing a defeat. Historically they intervene only in areas with high probability of winning. E.g. North Korea, 1962, Vietnam in 1977, South China Sea now. They never interfere with chance of defeat as loss of face will remove the Emperor i.e. the Communist Party itself.

- Right now North East is muddy with rains so an attacking force would get bogged down.
- Second Aksai Chin has terrain features that favor defense i.e. India.
- Moreover China will sweep in only after Pakistan gets upper hand to claim the spoils of war. In no scenario will Pakistan gain an upper hand on India.
-If China intervenes there is possibility of Buddha smiling again.

1962 was a political defeat and not a military defeat. I say this as Indian Military in ~ 30 months (from Nov. 1962 to Sept 1965) gave a very good account in the 1965 war. Typically a defeated military takes at least ten years to recover. E.g. Imperial Germany after 1919 was a force only by 1935, US after Vietnam in 1975 recovered in mid 1980s.
Even the political defeat was due to gullible leadership which should have stepped down after ten years and not continue in power till death.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 20 Sep 2016 21:24

In this day and age, do we really think that other countries don't know what pak is doing? Pakis have been doing this for more than 2 decades. OBL was snuffed out from pak, last week's NY perpetrator had paki connection. It's difficult to buy argument that one of the reasons we are waiting is for us to gather all international support. Even in 71 did we really get unanimous support?

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 20 Sep 2016 21:28

Chris: I will reply to this first

They can be faulted for trying. Insanity is repeating the same thing over and over again expecting a different result each time.

Yes, it is insane only if the circumstances are the same. However, when situation change then it is worthwhile to try good things once again.

After all a toddler, falls so many times trying to walk but eventually when he trains his brain and builds the necessary muscles, he starts walking. Modi era is different from MMS era. Pakistan is in deeper hole with each passing day.

Christopher Sidor · Post by **Christopher Sidor** » 20 Sep 2016 21:45

SwamyG wrote:Chris: I will reply to this first
They can be faulted for trying. Insanity is repeating the same thing over and over again expecting a different result each time.
Yes, it is insane only if the circumstances are the same. However, when situation change then it is worthwhile to try good things once again.

The same can be said for UPA-II outreach to Pakistan after Mumbai-2008 then why were they scorched in carrying out that approach? Remember how UPA-II was raked over coals when they did not evict a Pakistani visiting dignitary during Mumbai-2008 attack? It is our mistaken belief that if a particular ruling dispensation changes the nature of the country changes. It does not.

Sir the problem we all have blinkers in front of us. We believe that BJP is better than Congress. What we forget is that BJP is nothing but Congress-B Team. They have done nothing different, in fact they have eroded this country's defense strength and our helplessness in responding to death of our soldiers is proof of that.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 20 Sep 2016 22:31

Meanwhile, (sorry if already posted)
'Don't Rule Out Boycott Of SAARC Summit In Pakistan': Afghan Envoy To NDTV

Also, I am pleasantly surprised to see very influential congressmen and senators come out very strongly to show support, naming Pak (state) explicitly, with NO mention or attempt to do ==.

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 20 Sep 2016 22:39

People reporting in social media with pictures of tanks on trains moving north towards punjab, rajasthan giving preference over all others.

sivab · Post by **sivab** » 20 Sep 2016 22:44

https://twitter.com/manakgupta/status/7 ... 9439542272

Manak GuptaVerified account
‏@manakgupta
10 men killed by Indian army near / across LOC were Pak army regulars....!!!! And not terrorists. (Sources)

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 20 Sep 2016 22:46

SBajwa wrote:People reporting in social media with pictures of tanks on trains moving north towards punjab, rajasthan giving preference over all others.

Allah o Akbar

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 20 Sep 2016 22:48

sivab wrote:https://twitter.com/manakgupta/status/7 ... 9439542272

Manak GuptaVerified account
‏@manakgupta
10 men killed by Indian army near / across LOC were Pak army regulars....!!!! And not terrorists. (Sources)

Seems PA even tried to recover the bodies under cover fire. (From SM reports)

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 20 Sep 2016 22:57

Also, from a PhD scholar from International Relations at Preston University, Islamabad points out evil designs of UAE who is "waging a media war against Pakistan"

However, ‘Gulf News’ in its editorial “World stands united against cowardly attack in Kashmir dated 19 Sep 2016” not only claims that it was a terrorist attack sponsored by its nuclear neighbor , but also confirms that Kashmir is integral part of India. The worthy paper also grants the India its right to retaliate against its neighbor. The paper says “As a response to such an attack, India has every right to defend its territorial integrity and take appropriate measures required to pursue justice and eradicate the menace of terrorism”.

In its opening sentence the paper opines that it was a ‘despicable cowardly attack’ on soldiers because four commando-style gunmen hit the Indians soldiers at the time when they were little lazy and were changing guards. The paper calls upon entire international community to condemn such a heinous crime.
The Paper very kindly advises India not to avenge the attack, “a jaw for a tooth” ....[but] Editorial board of ‘Gulf News’ also suggest that Indian should develop even stronger defenses in occupied Kashmir. It says India must also investigate and rectify the serious lapses that allowed one of its most strategic security infrastructures to come under attack, and build a better bulwark of defence bases...

He is also wondering:

As a student of International Relations, I am wondering; how one should look at the editorial of ‘Gulf News’?

so if any of generous experts have any any suggestion, please reply to the PhD Scholar at : attarasul@hotmail.com, but also copy your response in appropriate brf thread. Thanks.

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 20 Sep 2016 23:06

^^Deer Rasul Bhai, if you can send me a copy of your Phee echh deee degree, I can tell how you should look at article. salam

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 20 Sep 2016 23:09

One very encouraging fall out of the Uri terrorist attack, is that the Indian media is giving quite a lot of attention to further infiltration and/or terror strikes in Kashmir, as well as any casualties suffered by the Indian military. The atmosphere is thus much more one of outrage and disgust, than what previously existed. People, including the Indian media, are really getting disgusted by the number of incidents.

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 20 Sep 2016 23:23

There is this harami David Devdas shitting in hindustan Times. Never seen such ideotic article. How such people do sleep. Funny name. Look like written by ISI. Where is GOI ? how they are allowing such nonsense on a national newspaper. Shame on you hindustan times .

. He has guts to tell us to prepare for worst in Kashmir as it is lost. This guy shounld be hanged upside down.

rgosain · Post by **rgosain** » 20 Sep 2016 23:34

rsingh wrote:There is this harami David Devdas shitting in hindustan Times. Never seen such ideotic article. How such people do sleep. Funny name. Look like written by ISI. Where is GOI ? how they are allowing such nonsense on a national newspaper. Shame on you hindustan times . . He has guts to tell us to prepare for worst in Kashmir as it is lost. This guy shounld be hanged upside down.

Show some respect, this guy is an alumni of both St Stephens and St Xavier. Where can you find such intellectual elitism?

Christopher Sidor · Post by **Christopher Sidor** » 20 Sep 2016 23:40

rgosain wrote:
rsingh wrote:There is this harami David Devdas shitting in hindustan Times. Never seen such ideotic article. How such people do sleep. Funny name. Look like written by ISI. Where is GOI ? how they are allowing such nonsense on a national newspaper. Shame on you hindustan times . . He has guts to tell us to prepare for worst in Kashmir as it is lost. This guy shounld be hanged upside down.
Show some respect, this guy is an alumni of both St Stephens and St Xavier. Where can you find such intellectual elitism?

How about the posterior of Musharaaf and Sharif.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 20 Sep 2016 23:46

Christopher Sidor wrote:
rgosain wrote: Show some respect, this guy is an alumni of both St Stephens and St Xavier. Where can you find such intellectual elitism?
How about the posterior of Musharaaf and Sharif.

What a wasted effort in educating this turd.

Looks like the free education did not go to his head after all

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 20 Sep 2016 23:47

I am worried that there is going to be an acute shortage of virgins in heaven in the next coming days

ssundar · Post by **ssundar** » 20 Sep 2016 23:49

Gagan wrote:I am worried that there is going to be an acute shortage of virgins in heaven in the next coming days

As the ventriloquist Jeff Dunham once said, "Are you sure those virgins are supposed to be females?". By that count, heaven will never run out of virgins.

la.khan · Post by **la.khan** » 20 Sep 2016 23:50

deejay wrote:Seems PA even tried to recover the bodies under cover fire. (From SM reports)

May be, some of our own finest went across to settle scores, killed a few, dragged 10 dead pigs back? Possible?

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 20 Sep 2016 23:51

sivab wrote:https://twitter.com/manakgupta/status/7 ... 9439542272

Manak GuptaVerified account
‏@manakgupta
10 men killed by Indian army near / across LOC were Pak army regulars....!!!! And not terrorists. (Sources)

Wow!
Has IA already crossed the LOC?

Please, please let Haji Pir pass come back to bharat

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 20 Sep 2016 23:52

la.khan wrote:
deejay wrote:Seems PA even tried to recover the bodies under cover fire. (From SM reports)
May be, some of our own finest went across to settle scores, killed a few, dragged 10 dead pigs back? Possible?

Possible.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 20 Sep 2016 23:57

Gagan wrote:I am worried that there is going to be an acute shortage of virgins in heaven in the next coming days

Worry not, i had already anticipated the demand & made provisions with new production line for accelerated emergency production while maintaining QC. Each and Every Virgin Hoor get personally tested before delivery.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 21 Sep 2016 00:02

Lawhore via kuwait!

Shanmukh · Post by **Shanmukh** » 21 Sep 2016 00:17

Gagan wrote:I am worried that there is going to be an acute shortage of virgins in heaven in the next coming days

Like Pakistani sauvirginity, virgins in Islamic Heaven re-virginise themselves after every sexual encounter (not kidding - read Arabian Nights)

sivab · Post by **sivab** » 21 Sep 2016 00:26

https://twitter.com/asifsuhaf/status/778198127572426752

aasifsuhaf News24 ‏@asifsuhaf 7h7 hours ago
Army moving heavy artillery weapons towards LOC in Uri North Kashmir, 8 Militants Killed so far in URI Sector Army Sorcs to @news24tvchannel

https://twitter.com/asifsuhaf/status/778198127572426752

aasifsuhaf News24 ‏@asifsuhaf 4h4 hours ago
10 #Pak Armymn Killed by #IndianArmy Nr #LOC in URI Sectr of North #Kashmir 2 days aftr #UriAttack, #PakArmy Cl bk soldiers on leave Sources

Kolahoi ‏@PawanDurani 8m8 minutes ago
Breaking : In Pakistan flights to Gilgit, Skardu & Chitral have been cancelled .

This is very significant !

sivab · Post by **sivab** » 21 Sep 2016 00:34

Kolahoi ‏@PawanDurani 3m3 minutes ago
Approximately 20 goals scored by Indo team so far ..... with 'surgical ' precision .

News from the 'stadium'

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 21 Sep 2016 00:41

20 is not enough. 200 and more need to be done. For every loss of one Indian life, 10 terrorists need to be taken out.

RoyG · Post by **RoyG** » 21 Sep 2016 00:45

Hopefully we got some officers. That's the real prize.

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 21 Sep 2016 00:46

This is now very serious, and people should not play the number games.

There will be casualties on both side but remember the goal, to stop these actions from repeating ever again. Keep hitting them until they learn their lesson no matter what the cost.

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 21 Sep 2016 00:57

Like I said, there will be casualties on both sides.

One Indian soldier martyred and 2 injured in ongoing operation.
http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/8-terror ... eststories

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 21 Sep 2016 01:23

In the midst of all this I hope GoI does not forget to award the Ashok Chakra to each of the 4 Para Cdos who stormed the building and killed the remaining 3 pigs and also to the young Dogra jawan who killed the 1st pig despite being hit in the head.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 21 Sep 2016 01:28

Christopher Sidor wrote: The same can be said for UPA-II outreach to Pakistan after Mumbai-2008 then why were they scorched in carrying out that approach? Remember how UPA-II was raked over coals when they did not evict a Pakistani visiting dignitary during Mumbai-2008 attack? It is our mistaken belief that if a particular ruling dispensation changes the nature of the country changes. It does not.

Sir the problem we all have blinkers in front of us. We believe that BJP is better than Congress. What we forget is that BJP is nothing but Congress-B Team. They have done nothing different, in fact they have eroded this country's defense strength and our helplessness in responding to death of our soldiers is proof of that.

Yes, agreed. UPA outreach should be considered in the same vein. I personally have never advocated war over peaceful means. Many of us sit in the comfortable office or home chairs, or couches and bay for blood - when it is others who have to die.

BJP is equal to INC. I agree to an extent. However with Doval as the NSA who seem to have the ears of PMO/Modi, he becomes the game changer. We now know Doval's views on many areas- politics, military, Pakistan, religion, Muslims, war, peace, governance among other things. We know where his head and heart lies, if he is influential then I trust we do not have blinkers. When the top level changes, the middle and bottom will change eventually. MMS had Sonia, PC and Co. Modi has Doval, SuSwamy and Co. Yes BJP might be same as INC, but Modi Sarkar is not same as MMS regime.

When MMS said a strong economy is important, many agree/believed. But INC did not make India stronger. When Modi says progress/development will solve the issues, his work in the last 2 years is sufficient to prove that he means it and does it. MMS never achieved what he said, Modi is achieving already what he has said.

Capacity building in military is not a 2 years job. In what areas did Modi Sarkar erode India's defense capabilities in the last 2.5 years that existed in 2014 (or prior to his government formation)?

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 21 Sep 2016 01:30

http://blogs.timesofindia.indiatimes.co ... ak-policy/
Uri terrorist attack brings into focus correctness of India’s Pak policy

S D Pradhan has served as chairman of India's Joint Intelligence Committee. He has also been the country's deputy national security adviser.

India needs to change its basic approach towards Pakistan. It is a rogue state and is unlikely to mend its approach towards India as along as the Pak Army controls the levers of power in that country. In fact, it is not a country with an army but an army with a nation. Its assurances should not be taken seriously. With this basic understanding, India should deal with Pakistan. In diplomatic talks, India needs to be careful and it would be appropriate to downgrade the diplomatic level. Currently, the option is not between the vacillating weak kneed policy and a war, which is possible between two nuclear weapon states as was demonstrated by Kargil conflict and Sino-Russian war over the border. The need is to raise the cost for Pak Army for its policies and that cannot be achieved through one off response for the losses. Even the best tactical operation without a well thought out strategy is just a noise before a defeat. India needs a well-calculated, proactive and long term strategy towards Pakistan to achieve the strategic objective. India’s response should be a combination of available conventional and unconventional options for strategic advantage and should be pursued without wavering. While conventional methods can provide visible results and satisfaction to people, it is unconventional options spread across a wide spectrum that can give the desired results in the long run.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 21 Sep 2016 01:33

Raja Bose wrote:In the midst of all this I hope GoI does not forget to award the Ashok Chakra to each of the 4 Para Cdos who stormed the building and killed the remaining 3 pigs and also to the young Dogra jawan who killed the 1st pig despite being hit in the head.

The supreme sacrifice by India's sons really makes the whole nation proud. May god almighty give peace to their souls.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 21 Sep 2016 01:35

I may be wrong, but it is possible that there are Para Cdos or RR guys inside POK now, hunting down pigs and pak faujis from their staging points

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 21 Sep 2016 01:40

Tariq Khan retired as a three star general of the Pakistan Army - he served as Commander of the I Corps at Mangla's tweet..wants to nuke Delhi.

https://twitter.com/omar_quraishi/statu ... 2349392896

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 21 Sep 2016 01:42

As predicted it is happening. This is not Mickey Mouse govt. But there is a limit to what it can do and will do.

Amber G. · Post by **Amber G.** » 21 Sep 2016 01:46

Panic ?
https://twitter.com/manakgupta/status/7 ... 7638682625
One view about how 4 scums can break security..
https://twitter.com/sameer_polonium/sta ... 9513682944
From Baluchistan Pak's history:

SBajwa · Post by **SBajwa** » 21 Sep 2016 02:02