Understanding the United States of America (USA) - III

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Sep 2016 01:27

Use this thread to discuss US elections.

Thanks,

ramana

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 28 Sep 2016 06:53

Agree with what? It depends on how you define Authoritarianism. His bogus Authoritarianism is only directed against non whites.

From the article:

Authoritarianism is not a new, untested concept in the American electorate. Since the rise of Nazi Germany, it has been one of the most widely studied ideas in social science. While its causes are still debated, the political behavior of authoritarians is not. Authoritarians obey. They rally to and follow strong leaders. And they respond aggressively to outsiders, especially when they feel threatened. From pledging to “make America great again” by building a wall on the border to promising to close mosques and ban Muslims from visiting the United States, Trump is playing directly to authoritarian inclinations

But, it could be a defective mic. You know, that is what people are saying. .......................

There are millions of stupid Americans who really think America is freely giving it away to "them". So when he says China is stealing jobs, Mexicans are stealing jobs, Japan is stealing jobs, that cuts a chord.

Hmmm.....

I am sure there are few million stupid Americans (OK, I can here the rumble on BR). But, there are plenty that are hurt by jobs leaving. And, it is not just in the US - Spain, France, East Euro countries, etc (mostly IT jobs). Hillary, last night, touched on another problem with this: the wealth that comes back is not distributed equitably.

IMHO, Trump does have good points on trade, loss of jobs, etc. However, I just do nto see a good plan in place - most of it just regurgitated words. But, the fears are not imaginary - far from that.

Besides, he is spent on the Muslim and Wall issues.

And, finally, Trump being Trump works well in NYC. He is hated in Chicago, where he has an emptish Trump Tower. Dupped people, etc.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 28 Sep 2016 07:09

The US Constitution gives large powers to the President w.r.t foreign policy. So it matters who becomes the President. Unfortunately those who can vote don't care how the President reacts with the world.

Trump didn't mention India which is a good thing for he will act on those he mentioned.

Hillary on other hand will act against India for sure based on her track record.

Either of them will have to move the economy forward and get out of the Great Recession. So it doesn't matter who for internal politics of US.

Now make your mind.

Trump not mentioning India is perhaps because he has too much on his plate to remember anything beyond some bite size words: China, Mexico, Japan, ........ and then blank. The man is not used to this level of knowledge, etc. A thug at heart (which is OK, many out there), he is not used to people constantly challenging him, etc. He has threatened to sue (some) people for estimating is wealth!!!

On Hillary, I very much doubt that will be her position on India. For two reasons: the biggest is that India has changed sufficiently to register his own tectonic scale and the global dynamics have changed (and will never be the same again).

I had actually cringed when Kerry was selected as SoS - you really could not intro a more pro Pakistan man in the US than him. And yet he has turned out to be rather different - times have changed. For all the noise Kerry made about India and NPT, I cannot recall him making any ref to that topic during his tenure as SoS, but as a Senator he was pretty much relentless.

Hillary will run into rough weather within the US and for sure within the Modi gov.

One other observation. Under Obama, Indian relations have been managed far more by the Dept of Def, than the Dept of State. Something to note.

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 28 Sep 2016 07:42

Hillary wins debate but Trump 'wins undecideds'

Also they prove how the moderator was behaving like hillary's press secretary and didn't raise any points against hillary as he did against trump.

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 28 Sep 2016 18:29

NRao wrote:The man is not used to this level of knowledge, etc. A thug at heart (which is OK, many out there), he is not used to people constantly challenging him, etc. He has threatened to sue (some) people for estimating is wealth!!!

Trump by all accounts is a stellar businessman. And any good businessman realises early enough that they cannot do everything. Hence, they have advisors. And these advisors advise the businessman in those things there is some uncertainty.

To claim Trump is not used to this level of knowledge, you are allowing your own biases get in the way. While you are willing to give Clinton benefit of doubt- inspite of the trail of destruction that follows her- I do find it very biased that you are unable to extend the same level of benefit to Trump.

A career politician needs to know these things and that is exactly what Hillary is. A rentier- someone who uses government machinery to enrich self.

Trump is not a rentier. He is the one who has created wealth by his own effort.

If I have to vote, I will vote Trump over Hillary. By all accounts he will probably be just as useless president as any USA has had. Clinton will only be worse. Because she cannot think beyond her own self interest.

ricky_v · Post by **ricky_v** » 28 Sep 2016 19:35

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wor ... &tid=ss_tw

The history of slavery in the United States justifies reparations for African Americans, argues a recent report by a U.N.-affiliated group based in Geneva
"In particular, the legacy of colonial history, enslavement, racial subordination and segregation, racial terrorism and racial inequality in the United States remains a serious challenge, as there has been no real commitment to reparations and to truth and reconciliation for people of African descent," the report stated. "Contemporary police killings and the trauma that they create are reminiscent of the past racial terror of lynching."

now I have always thought of the un an outer façade for the deep state, but along comes news like this one which leads me to ask whether these are just optics (chai biskoot reports?) or are there more players in the fray for the great game and if so, who's footing their bills? looking at the contribution to the un nation wise, unkil seems to be way ahead than anyone else but every nation pays depending on their ability to do so. so is the un "independent" and if so what is its end game?

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 28 Sep 2016 19:53

The most vocal opponents of black people reparations will be MUTU NRIs. I have met many. They always like to show how they landed with just few hundred dollars and now living in their own house, 2 cars, mortgage paid, etc. They never acknowledge the headstart a well educated caring family in India (and government subsidized Engineering degree at least for some) provided them. The basic fundamentals of becoming successful they had before coming to US. I realized this when as a newbie graduate intern in Princeton, an African American receptionist told me that how far you have come from a poor country (India) to US while she has never been in an airplane all her life.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 28 Sep 2016 20:24

prahaar wrote:The most vocal opponents of black people reparations will be MUTU NRIs. I have met many. They always like to show how they landed with just few hundred dollars and now living in their own house, 2 cars, mortgage paid, etc. They never acknowledge the headstart a well educated caring family in India (and government subsidized Engineering degree at least for some) provided them. The basic fundamentals of becoming successful they had before coming to US. I realized this when as a newbie graduate intern in Princeton, an African American receptionist told me that how far you have come from a poor country (India) to US while she has never been in an airplane all her life.

Its more complicated than that.
How do you propose to give them reparations? Just dole out $'x' to each? Are they now free to spend it on anything they want or do you propose controls?

Going back further, do you demand reparations to Indians from the European powers? I am sure each one of our families have been affected centuries earlier.

What is the goal here? Just ease the conscience of present day whites that they did something? Or bring blacks up to a higher level of education?

prahaar · Post by **prahaar** » 28 Sep 2016 20:59

I realize it is more complicated than direct cash transfers. There is definitely a tangible benefit in terms of better education and improved law enforcement which can be provided. Immigrants like Indians/Chinese and other Eastern Europeans are used as an example of why any discussion of reparations is unnecessary. Many top American financial institutions will have to pay out. And the reparations will not stop with African Americans.

ManishC · Post by **ManishC** » 28 Sep 2016 20:59

Trump is a successful Real Estate Developer also dabbling in high end (usually garish) hospitality, clubs etc. When he has tried to step beyond his core competency the result usually has been failure - Trump U, even casinos.
His street smart hustling is suited to real estate, not to anything else which might be regulated, in public eye, or not driven mostly by under the table dealings. Running a public company is a different kettle of fish, Trump has never done that (apart from maybe in 80s, turned into a penny stock). So his "business" acumen will not translate to governance.

The other NY tycoon Bloomberg is a better businessmen, it shows in his various endeavors which are profitable, stable and reliable. Imagine Trump running something like Bloomberg TV or Magazine

Trump is posing as a Change candidate - and Indians have experience with Change candidates who tear down established politicians as corrupt, only to get in and have no idea how to govern leaving the system worse than before.
VP Singh was a change messiah, and Rajiv a Bofors commission khore, a la Hillary - Does anyone think electing VP was beneficial to Indian society or politics or solved corruption? Kejri is acting out same script now.

If Trump wins we will see this empty vessel Change agent narrative play out, with unpredictable results and not in a good way.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 28 Sep 2016 21:51

Seems to me that people in support of Trump have their own slice of what he would for them in mind: Get jobs, stop trade deals, appoint SC judges, deregulate stuff, reduce taxes, more coal, etc.

No one has a picture of how his other policies would impact their own. So, if he got me a great job, but I face stop-n-frisk or profiling, then what? Or he loads the SC with right wingers? I have not come across anyone that supports him across the board. BTW, he has my support on trade deals (goes back to 1990), retaining jobs in the US - including reduced off-shoring and H-1B. (But, the IT market should correct itself. Newer techs will reduce off-shoring/H-1Bs. I would not be surprised if teh correction is ahead of Trump on this one)

GShankar · Post by **GShankar** » 28 Sep 2016 22:29

NRao wrote:Seems to me that people in support of Trump have their own slice of what he would for them in mind: Get jobs, stop trade deals, appoint SC judges, deregulate stuff, reduce taxes, more coal, etc.

Don't you think that is the same for HC too? - like equal pay for women, higher minimum wages, more funding for education (govt. teachers - hello?), fear of deportation, etc.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 28 Sep 2016 22:39

GShankar wrote:
NRao wrote:Seems to me that people in support of Trump have their own slice of what he would for them in mind: Get jobs, stop trade deals, appoint SC judges, deregulate stuff, reduce taxes, more coal, etc.
Don't you think that is the same for HC too? - like equal pay for women, higher minimum wages, more funding for education (govt. teachers - hello?), fear of deportation, etc.

I do not believe so. Hillary is a far better known entity. I think people who vote for her have a far better picture of what all she will do and how the other things will impact them. There is some track record, which Trump does not have. I am not saying that Trump will be all bad (for individual block of his supporters), may be he will be great. But that broader picture is not there for Trump - for obvious reasons. But, that carries a risk even for his voters - exceptions being his way right wingers.

GShankar · Post by **GShankar** » 28 Sep 2016 22:54

NRao wrote:
GShankar wrote:
Don't you think that is the same for HC too? - like equal pay for women, higher minimum wages, more funding for education (govt. teachers - hello?), fear of deportation, etc.
I do not believe so.

I am only selecting the first sentence from your response because the rest were not relevant to the specific point of discussion - people support Trump for their own 'selfish beliefs'. My opinion is that there is a == w.r.t HC and her supporters also in terms of proportion of supporters for this specific reason.

I am in disagreement until at least I see more data to change my mind.

There may be other supporters for both DT and HC for various other reasons like party loyalty, ideology, etc.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Sep 2016 22:56

US needs its own Kejri having inflicted one on India via FF.

Primus · Post by **Primus** » 28 Sep 2016 23:14

prahaar wrote:The most vocal opponents of black people reparations will be MUTU NRIs. I have met many. They always like to show how they landed with just few hundred dollars and now living in their own house, 2 cars, mortgage paid, etc. They never acknowledge the headstart a well educated caring family in India (and government subsidized Engineering degree at least for some) provided them. The basic fundamentals of becoming successful they had before coming to US. I realized this when as a newbie graduate intern in Princeton, an African American receptionist told me that how far you have come from a poor country (India) to US while she has never been in an airplane all her life.

Sorry, that's too simplistic. The reason the receptionist remains a receptionist is not because she did not have the opportunity, but because she did not utilize it. She would be the number one choice for Princeton if she met the basic requirements, way more eligible than an Indian any day.

Almost 30 yrs ago I was working in South Bronx, the armpit and HIV capital of the US at the time. As I got off the Major Deegan Expwy I would have to stop for the light, somehow it was always red. There were two AA men with dirty cloths who forced themselves upon every motorist, 'cleaning' the windshield and then demanding money for actually making it dirtier. They had a baseball bat tucked away as an overt threat if you didn't comply. It was a daily morning ritual and it took me a while to learn how to deal with these 'squeegee men' who had become a scourge all over town under Dinkin's rule.

At the same spot was a thin, almost emaciated Bangla Deshi guy who spoke hardly any English, who would sell you the NYT and other papers.

A couple of years later the squeegee men remained where they were, while the Bangla Deshi had moved up to working in a local restaurant and earning a decent wage. It is likely he was an illegal immigrant and thus had a lot less going for him than the AA goons but he still made it.

America for those who are willing to work hard has always been a land of great opportunity. For somebody with a sound body and mind and the desire to work, especially from the minority groups, the gates are more open than you realize. If you are poor, education is still accessible, most of the top universities are 'need blind'. I have lived here long enough to see this happen time and again.

Primus · Post by **Primus** » 28 Sep 2016 23:22

It is strange, but so many of the well-to-do support Trump, especially among the Indians I talk to, that it is mind-boggling. I wouldn't vote for him because the women in my family have threatened me with dire consequences

Seriously though, this will be the most bitter, acerbic and contentious election ever. People are polarized within families. In the larger society, there are predictable divisions along the lines of race, gender, religion and sexual orientation. It is looking very much like a caste-based election in UP does.

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 29 Sep 2016 03:45

US Senate votes to override Obama’s 9/11 bill vetp

WASHINGTON: The US Senate voted overwhelmingly Wednesday to override Barack Obama’s veto of a bill allowing 9/11 victims to sue Saudi Arabia, the first such rebuke of his eight year presidency.

In a landmark vote, Senators 97-to-one backed the override, with only outgoing Obama ally Harry Reid voting against, teeing up a similar vote in the House of Representatives later Wednesday.

The rare act of bipartisanship is a severe blow to Obama, who lobbied hard against the bill, known as the Justice Against Sponsors of Terrorism Act (JASTA).

It marks Obama’s last months in office and shows the White House to be much weakened.

Obama has issued 12 vetoes during his presidency, until now none have yet been revoked, a rare feat given Republicans’ long control of Congress.

The White House argued the bill would undermine the principle of sovereign immunity and open up the US itself to lawsuits.

In a letter to Republican and Democratic Senate leaders obtained by AFP, Obama said “I strongly believe that enacting JASTA into law would be detrimental to US national interests.”

Obama warned of “devastating” consequences for the Pentagon, service members, diplomats and the intelligence services.

It would “neither protect Americans from terrorist attacks, nor improve the effectiveness of our response to such attacks,” he warned.

Families of 9/11 victims have campaigned for the law — convinced that the Saudi government had a hand in the attacks that killed almost 3,000 people.

Fifteen of the 19 hijackers were Saudi citizens, but no link to the government has been proven. The Saudi government denies any links to the plotters.

Declassified documents showed US intelligence had multiple suspicions about links between the Saudi government and the attackers.

“While in the United States, some of the 9/11 hijackers were in contact with, and received support or assistance from, individuals who may be connected to the Saudi government,” a finding read.

The bill’s cosponsor, New York Democrat Chuck Schumer told Senators it “would allow the victims of 9/11 to pursue some small measure of justice.”

Behind the scenes, Riyadh has been lobbying furiously for the bill to be scrapped.

A senior Saudi prince reportedly threatened to pull billions of dollars out of US assets if it becomes law, but Saudi officials now distance themselves from that claim.

The US-Saudi relationship had already been strained by Obama’s engagement with Saudi’s Shia foe Iran and the July release of a secret report on Saudi involvement in the attacks.
Cheers

dsreedhar · Post by **dsreedhar** » 29 Sep 2016 04:02

Agree with Primus on the case of Bangladeshi guy vs the AA guys. For those willing to work they have great opportunities especially minority groups. As I pointed out in another thread part of the problem in AA communities is with their family background and issues. Because of it they end up not making themselves more capable and skilled in the new economy and are left behind at the lower side.

I think atleast a portion of Indians lean towards Trump is because of his tough stance/view on islamic terrorism and muslim immigration to US.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 29 Sep 2016 05:15

Now I know why Trump wanted to fire many of the Generals.

It has since been removed and the US Army has issued an apology.

The Army said that the errant tweet was due to a mistake by a manager of its social media account.

"An employee responsible for the Army's social media accounts mistakenly posted a political article to the Army's Twitter page that was intended for her personal account," according to an official US Army statement provided to CNN.

"The post is not the official position of the US Army," the statement added, saying that the employee responsible has had their access to the Army's social media account suspended.

"We apologize for any confusion this may have caused our followers."

That is

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 29 Sep 2016 05:38

GShankar wrote:
NRao wrote:
I do not believe so.
I am only selecting the first sentence from your response because the rest were not relevant to the specific point of discussion - people support Trump for their own 'selfish beliefs'. My opinion is that there is a == w.r.t HC and her supporters also in terms of proportion of supporters for this specific reason.

I am in disagreement until at least I see more data to change my mind.

There may be other supporters for both DT and HC for various other reasons like party loyalty, ideology, etc.

My bad. By "slice" I meant those non-typical supporters. The democrats in Ohio's rust belt, the coalers in SC, now some educated whites in CO (today's report). I could vote from Trump too - but based ONLY on his bringing jobs back. I shudder to think what he could do with teh rest of his platform. The stop-n-frisk is one that I would be concerned about - I am a "rural" guy, so that one could really impact me.

Also of note:
* After the debate a surge in voter registration among Latins. Recall these was an anemic segment till now
* Bernie's supporters are turning the corner for Hillary - in small numbers. But this could gather speed in the next 6 weeks

LokeshC · Post by **LokeshC** » 29 Sep 2016 09:43

dsreedhar wrote:Agree with Primus on the case of Bangladeshi guy vs the AA guys. For those willing to work they have great opportunities especially minority groups. As I pointed out in another thread part of the problem in AA communities is with their family background and issues. Because of it they end up not making themselves more capable and skilled in the new economy and are left behind at the lower side.

I think atleast a portion of Indians lean towards Trump is because of his tough stance/view on islamic terrorism and muslim immigration to US.

dsreedhar, nothing against you personally, I am only talking about your attitude/position on this matter.

The attitude expressed in the above post is exactly the reason why AAs will (probably) always remain where they are. It shows a lack of understanding of massan history.

On top of it there are two piskological things that people miss out here:
1) PTSD travels through generations.Like many things it is generational. How many macaulayite House Slave ch()()tiyas exist in India? We have been free for 70 odd years and yet they are born in unlimited quantities. We should have been automatically "fixed up" once the britshitters stopped squatting on India and sucking her bone dry, but yet we stumbled here and there for nearly a century.
2) A child ripped apart from families will cause PTSD. Slavery causes PTSD.

And a third political thing (result of such attitudes)
3) Up until Nixon (and to some extent Reagan), institutionalized racism was the norm (its not that institutionalized now, and is latent, and also probably more dangerous). I would take an open racist anyday over a latent racist. I do not know how deep the racist bias of the latent racist goes, whereas the open racist is clear on his stand and makes it easy to put in place a strategy, however hard that may be,

With these three cards stacked against them, I am surprised AA guys are so calm. I will say this even if I get beat up by a thug/robber who happens to be an AA. Seriously.

I guess most desi folks have no clue how similar the piskological situation of AAs are with us desis. How much we have in common. A little humility and empathy can go a long way in helping the already polarized massa. And I can tell you that attitudes like yours are precisely the reason why I see it getting more polarized.

GShankar · Post by **GShankar** » 29 Sep 2016 09:55

NRao wrote: My bad. By "slice" I meant those non-typical supporters. The democrats in Ohio's rust belt, the coalers in SC, now some educated whites in CO (today's report). I could vote from Trump too - but based ONLY on his bringing jobs back. I shudder to think what he could do with teh rest of his platform. The stop-n-frisk is one that I would be concerned about - I am a "rural" guy, so that one could really impact me.

Also of note:
* After the debate a surge in voter registration among Latins. Recall these was an anemic segment till now
* Bernie's supporters are turning the corner for Hillary - in small numbers. But this could gather speed in the next 6 weeks

I think this is normal for any political campaign to attract some of the so called 'independents' along with some 'opportunists'. Some republicans go to HC due to their reasons 'DT hate?

', 'christian values', etc. and so does some democrats to DT due to 'coal', etc.

For ex: if someone were to say they'll convert all H1b over 6 years to GC, then all these guys, their family and friends will vote there - Populism

And Trump is going for popular majoritarianism - says heck with political correctness and minorities, I know my target audience and how to get them.

He is pretty much treating this as a click-bait web/digital marketing campaign and tries to convert the leads to votes. It would be a fools errand to identify policy from Trump's speeches for now (IMO). The same cannot be said about HC since she is a career politician and has to defend or spin her past actions.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 29 Sep 2016 19:09

GS,

In a normal election year I would totally agree.

The Trump phenomenon is really out of this world. The "slice" I talk of (including me) are a frustrated lot. And frustrated specifically about one , at most two, things. If Hillary could have solved any one of them she could carry this rather easily IMHO.

BTW, Nicole Carroll of the Arizona Republic was on npr. First time in 126 years they backed a democrat this year. She was blunt: Trump is clueless and therefore we should not trust the nation to him.

I am sure most of Trump's supporters feel about the same (the "slice" I am talking of). But the level of frustration is so high that most are willing to take that leap into the deep end. It is a suicidal move.

dsreedhar · Post by **dsreedhar** » 29 Sep 2016 19:34

LokeshC - I am not taking personal, just view it as an exchange of opinions.
I hear and agree about PTSD affect can have.

But look at the other side and ground realities now -
The president of US himself is AA. AA are at the top in most sports. They are active and make a good portion in defense. They are wide spread in entertainment industry with celebrity status. These are the stars in the community and they are in significant numbers in proportion to their population.
I see lot of inter-racial couples. There are institutional protection and support to minorities. The liberal left is very active and strong some credit goes to marxism. The christian faith and its reformation movements over period may also have helped subside the racism.
Indians who were under subjugation for almost 1000yr and have seen liberty only for 70yrs, have now risen up and have been successful anywhere they go. There are people coming in droves from third world (colonies) and war torn countries to US. Many of them have been successful and driving more to come here.
There is significant size of hispanics, oriental, blacks, natives and others. It is not practical for whites to think of racism and supremacy.

Yes there is still some remnants of racism. We cannot expect utopia, there will always be some bad apples. There might be latent racism but as long as the institutions are strong and significant number of sane people which there is (my opinion), it can be dealt with.

I see blacks either at low level jobs or at the top celebrities, but not many in the middle layer. To be in the middle layer one has to work hard and act and live responsibly lifetime.

Again my personal experiences, observation and opinion. Others may put forward their view.

Agnimitra · Post by **Agnimitra** » 29 Sep 2016 20:12

dsreedhar wrote:The christian faith and its reformation movements over period may also have helped subside the racism.

The Christian faith was one of the motivators and mobilizers of institutional racism when it existed - both, to convince the whites of their chosen status, and to convince the black of their pious servility. This includes mainstream "reformed" Christianity - e.g., Calvinism was part of the bedrock of Apartheid in South Africa, and continues to have a significant adherence in the US (albeit with the racism dumbed down today). It is a different matter that mainstream Christianity has adjusted itself to changing mores and repositioned itself as a champion against racism - but that has always been the specialty of Christianity and Islam - always riding the wave.

GShankar · Post by **GShankar** » 29 Sep 2016 20:17

NRao wrote:GS,
The Trump phenomenon is really out of this world. The "slice" I talk of (including me) are a frustrated lot. And frustrated specifically about one , at most two, things. If Hillary could have solved any one of them she could carry this rather easily IMHO.

I agree about there being a 'phenomenon'. But I attribute all the support that DT gets in the Independents or Slice category to his 'outsider/anti-establishment' tag (If I may, similar to AK in Delhi back then). There are so many I know who hate/distrust HC and then go and support DT. Thus I am not sure what is that one thing that HC could have done to gather these people - the so called 'Independents/Slice'. Because HC cannot NOT support pakis and their ilk. HC cannot shake of the 'mother of isis' tag. Then there are emails. HC supports unions (she was even against Uber saying it affects TLC people in NYC). HC wants to increase taxes. The list goes on I guess. Almost all of the above are HC's track record and core-competencies - very difficult to shake off. The only out for HC is that DT is racist, chauvinist, narcissist, stupid, dumb, clueless, etc.

Added later: For example, there is a lot of support for Stop and Frisk among DT's base. Especially due to sporadic gun violence and terrorist acts. After the NYC cooker bombs couple of weeks ago, many want it back. Another of my personal opinion - anything that DT says, that comes across as crazy, has already been vetted by him and his team. That is why after saying each 'so-called' crazy thing, DT's support and polling numbers increase. Something to ponder.

NRao wrote: BTW, Nicole Carroll of the Arizona Republic was on npr. First time in 126 years they backed a democrat this year. She was blunt: Trump is clueless and therefore we should not trust the nation to him.

I don't know much (rather anything) about Nicole Carroll. However I am going to go out on a limb and say what any DT supporter would say - that I don't think any Editor out there are "impartial" in the real sense. It is totally possible all these "Editors" are dancing to their master's tunes, be it republican establishment or across the aisle, the democrats.

NRao wrote: I am sure most of Trump's supporters feel about the same (the "slice" I am talking of). But the level of frustration is so high that most are willing to take that leap into the deep end. It is a suicidal move.

I would like to know what is the definition of suicidal here. I also think all these fears are unrealistic because if Congress can block Obama, they can very easily block Trump. All the democrats would support that

. A Trump win now is a great stepping stone for Paul Ryan. I think he realized that and thus has toned down his rhetoric.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 30 Sep 2016 00:23

GShankar wrote:
NRao wrote: I am sure most of Trump's supporters feel about the same (the "slice" I am talking of). But the level of frustration is so high that most are willing to take that leap into the deep end. It is a suicidal move.
I would like to know what is the definition of suicidal here. I also think all these fears are unrealistic because if Congress can block Obama, they can very easily block Trump. All the democrats would support that . A Trump win now is a great stepping stone for Paul Ryan. I think he realized that and thus has toned down his rhetoric.

By Suicidal I mean that they feel they have to vote for Trump on topic, but have no clue what they will get from him on others. For exmaple the people from coal regions love him because he will revive their livelihood, but have no idea if anyone will buy their coal (or how his tax proposals will impact them).

The dynamics within the US Congress is a given, yes Paul Ryan has seen that aspect. But Paul Ryan too is very aware that a US Prez has powers that the US Congress cannot control all the time (ref: Obama).

Anyways. I think I am done with this.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 30 Sep 2016 00:25

IF people were scared of Kaine ...................

Trump jokes: 'Raise your hand if you're not a Christian conservative'

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 30 Sep 2016 00:33

Yes saar, still more scared of Kaine. Much more.

Here's why. People like Mike Pence are inveterate, wide-open fundamentalists. Deny evolution, claim dinosaurs were a myth, want to "pray the gay away", are militantly "pro-life". Their fundamentalism is *inwardly directed*, towards US society itself... on every question from marriage/property rights to education to medical insurance. They will be hugely, solidly opposed within the US itself by a very large bloc of people. This will prove a distraction from their being able to prosecute evanjihad overseas, and tax the energy they can devote to the business of harvesting foreign souls.

Kaine purports to be a "socially liberal" Christian, but is in fact a very committed missionary zealot. He will appeal to the vast mass of US Christians by taking a "live and let live" approach to things like creationism and gay rights, and claim instead that Christ's message "is really all about social justice and human rights". That is EXACTLY the premise on which the most dangerous Evanjihadi assaults against India, atrocity literature/"dalit" subversion/USCIRF etc. operate. He will have no opposition for his supposedly "tolerant" views within the US, but will be able to claim a moral high ground that is ostensibly "secular" even though informed by his Christianity. This makes him far more dangerous as a soul-harvester in foreign countries, particularly those occupied by heathen colored people, against whom even the most "liberal" white American harbors deep-seated prejudice for their allegedly barbaric ways.

Rajiv Malhotra has written extensively about this. The overtly bigoted Christians are not a problem for us. It is the type who proffer the kindly face of Western Universalism to cover up digestion on the one hand, while undermining the source of the digested material on the other, that are far worse.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 30 Sep 2016 00:41

Better be scared of both. One is a Phillip and the other is a Hex screw driver. Both will only screw you.

Rudradev · Post by **Rudradev** » 30 Sep 2016 00:46

I am scared of both, all right. But it will be far easier for Kaine to use NGO-type Trojan Horses within India itself who will flock to his ostensibly "secular" posturing and join hands with his "social justice" crusade to undermine Hindu dharma. Pence's crusade will come with a great big cross right up front and no one can pretend to ignore what he is really all about. So the Hex screwdriver in this case has a far longer shank!

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 30 Sep 2016 01:04

I will take 100% FDI over USCIFR/NGOs. In 5 years India can buy all the NGOs.

If Kaine wants to go up against LM/Boeing/Northrup, so be it. That is not an Indian problem.

I happen to think - and so far proved right - that Modi will manage the situations better than analysts.

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 30 Sep 2016 06:49

NRao wrote:IF people were scared of Kaine ...................

Trump jokes: 'Raise your hand if you're not a Christian conservative'

I actually like this, its much better for us then stealthy slimey crusaders like hillary-kerry types, who work behind the curtain, pressurising sushma swaraj to remove the ban from colorado's christian evangelist "compassion" ngo to pour in 150 million every year strengthening "Breaking India" project and converting millions.

With loud mouths like trumpets these things will come out in open thus awakening Bharatvaasis to the perils of usa-the-crusader-inchief of the world.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 30 Sep 2016 07:36

Interesting ..............

Ohio, Long a Bellwether, Is Fading on the Electoral Map

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 30 Sep 2016 08:36

3 Indian Americans Named to Trump's Asian Advisory Committee

That is 3/30: 10%.

The guy in the picture is the one Trump assured that Indian off-shore/H-1B would not impacted. FWIW.

Vayutuvan · Post by **Vayutuvan** » 30 Sep 2016 10:01

Rudradev wrote:I am scared of both, all right. But it will be far easier for Kaine to use NGO-type Trojan Horses within India itself who will flock to his ostensibly "secular" posturing and join hands with his "social justice" crusade to undermine Hindu dharma. Pence's crusade will come with a great big cross right up front and no one can pretend to ignore what he is really all about. So the Hex screwdriver in this case has a far longer shank!

Are you referring to his Peace Corp stint in Honduras? He worked at a Jesuit mission. The Mission (Robert De Niro, Jeremy Irons) redux, one wonders.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 30 Sep 2016 19:07

Reports suggest that the Afro-American comm is not satisfied with Hillary. Too much "Black lives matter" on TV. And lack of visits to the comm. AA not convinced she will do any thing for them and is a election time attention. Which is what Trump said too. Diff (reports suggest) is that Trump does not care, while the AA leadership cares about the AA community.

Interesting. With a few weeks to go that these fractures are surfacing.

NRao · Post by **NRao** » 30 Sep 2016 19:34

Chicago Tribune backs Libertanian Gary Johnson for president.!!!!!

GShankar · Post by **GShankar** » 30 Sep 2016 20:15

Looking at the US response to India's surgical raids in Pak, I am thinking it is overall favorable. Any reason this will change if either of HC or DT become p-ot-us? Is our current brotherhood temporary? Thoughts?