Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan-13 June,2016

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 01 Oct 2016 02:40

Pakistan army provides help to relocate terrorist camps near Muzaffarabad to Manshera, Jhelum

NEW DELHI: A dozen terror camps located near Muzaffarabad, in Pakistanoccupied Kashmir, were relocated to Manshera, Naushera and Jhelum with the help of the Pakistan army, according to Indian intelligence reports from across the line of control. The Indian Army had destroyed 7 launching pads of terror groups on Thursday, located in Muree and Rawalkot in PoK. The decision to shift the camps from PoK to its territory was taken by a rattled Pakistan to avoid casualty to militants and their assets.

The intelligence reports further said that these camps have more than 500 militants, mostly from Lashkar-e-Taiba, Jaish-e-Mohammad and Hizbul Mujahideen. Among them, LeT has close to 300 terrorists, the highest in number, in their camps, an official said quoting intelligence report. Officials added that the reports were credible and were put together with the help of western agencies. Three such camps identified in Muzaffarabad were located at Pir Chanasi, Aksha Maskar and Tabuk, said officials.

While Manshera in Khyber Paktunkhwa province is 50 km from Muzaffarabad, Naushera and Hajhiaima in Jhelum in Punjab province are 250 km each from Muzaffarabad. Counter-intelligence sleuths said these terror camps start their activity at 2.30 am where young recruits are made to undergo a tough physical training. Activities at the camp end with ‘isha ki namaz’ by 10 pm, he added.

These camps, according to officials, are assigned specific tasks where training manuals are divided into to officials, are assigned specific tasks where training manuals are divided into three phases. “Based on the interrogation of the captured militants in the past, we have found that a terrorist before being brought to a launch pad undergoes three modules — Daura-e-Talba (basic training), Daura-e-aam (physical training) and Daura-e-khas (arms training),” the CI sleuth added.

Cheers

deWalker · Post by **deWalker** » 01 Oct 2016 03:12

The Pakis don't seem to understand fully the bind they are in. I see some comments about "Oh there were always cross border raids", but those were military-on-military. This attack was military-on-jihadi. So the Pakis can either ack that they have jihadis right under their noses and thank India for helping with them with a clean up (not gonna happen), or basically side with protecting the jihadis (which is where they stand implicitly in any case).

Every time Pakistan raises the cross border raid in a diplomatic setting, TSP has to answer the question why they are objecting to the Indian raid: inevitably they will look like they are defending the jihadis. Finally they can't hide behind the "moral and diplomatic" pile of doodoo.

Mihaylo · Post by **Mihaylo** » 01 Oct 2016 03:39

schinnas wrote:I guess after SriLanka pulled out, if they continued to resist, it would come across as overtly siding with Pukistan. In that respect Sri Lanka and Maldives have both demonstrated that they want to remain neutral and didn't condemn Puki terrorism in strong terms.

Anyways, a great humiliation for Pakistan. Imagine you being the rotational host in a club, and when it is your turn the host the annual party, everyone pulls out of the party because your arch enemy is pissed with you. Where is their Pakjabi H&D? No mention of all countries pulling out of SAARC in dawn first page! dawn used to not be such a shameless govt mouthpiece. I remember reading dawn during Kargil war where op-ed after op-ed lamented poor decision of Pakistan leadership in getting their country into the war. Now it acts as free press for Puki Army. what a fall.

This was only after they realized that they were going to have to downhill skiing. Before it was all 'strategic brilliance' or 'restrained joy'. I remember during the early Kargil days Pukes in my University doing the goal line dance and then slowly crawling back into their caves when we started pounding them.

-M

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 01 Oct 2016 04:23

Bogus university rankings - Pervez Hoodbhoy

Cheers

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 01 Oct 2016 05:22

Peregrine wrote:Bogus university rankings - Pervez Hoodbhoy

Cheers

quoting

From Paper King to HCA (Highly Cited Author) is then a short journey. The king in Islamabad reaches out to friendly kingdoms everywhere from Jakarta to Shanghai, and Tehran to Toronto. He cites their papers and they duly return his favour, a win-win situation. The king’s citation count rockets up, Thomson-Reuters announces a “path-breaking” gain, the king collects his tamgha and cash prize, and his university rises in international rankings.

this is actually a very valid point. I used to call this 'mutual back-scratching society'.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 01 Oct 2016 07:10

Peregrine wrote:Pakistan army provides help to relocate terrorist camps near Muzaffarabad to Manshera, Jhelum

NEW DELHI: A dozen terror camps located near Muzaffarabad, in Pakistanoccupied Kashmir, were relocated to Manshera, Naushera and Jhelum with the help of the Pakistan army, according to Indian intelligence reports from across the line of control. The Indian Army had destroyed 7 launching pads of terror groups on Thursday, located in Muree and Rawalkot in PoK. The decision to shift the camps from PoK to its territory was taken by a rattled Pakistan to avoid casualty to militants and their assets.

The intelligence reports further said that these camps have more than 500 militants, mostly from Lashkar-e-Taiba, Jaish-e-Mohammad and Hizbul Mujahideen. Among them, LeT has close to 300 terrorists, the highest in number, in their camps, an official said quoting intelligence report. Officials added that the reports were credible and were put together with the help of western agencies. Three such camps identified in Muzaffarabad were located at Pir Chanasi, Aksha Maskar and Tabuk, said officials.

Hmmm fancy that. So those camps have people whose lives are actually valued by Pakistan.

Pakis talk like they are happy to die fighting India (or any other kafir) But the self preservation meme is strong. Maybe the jihadi lives are not valued much but the trainers and indoctrinations and middle level LeT operatives in each camp are worried.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 01 Oct 2016 07:12

Rahul M wrote:
Peregrine wrote:Bogus university rankings - Pervez Hoodbhoy
quoting
From Paper King to HCA (Highly Cited Author) is then a short journey. The king in Islamabad reaches out to friendly kingdoms everywhere from Jakarta to Shanghai, and Tehran to Toronto. He cites their papers and they duly return his favour, a win-win situation. The king’s citation count rockets up, Thomson-Reuters announces a “path-breaking” gain, the king collects his tamgha and cash prize, and his university rises in international rankings.
this is actually a very valid point. I used to call this 'mutual back-scratching society'.

I was looking at a country comparison of papers published and I found that "self citations" where authors cite their own work is very high in Chinese papers.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 01 Oct 2016 07:28

deWalker wrote:The Pakis don't seem to understand fully the bind they are in. I see some comments about "Oh there were always cross border raids", but those were military-on-military. This attack was military-on-jihadi.

Exactly, deWalker.

That's why I posited that September 29, 2016 is as significant as May 11, 1998.

The bogey that India will not cross LoC has been exorcised once and for all. The self-inflicted redline is well & truly abandoned.
This was a pre-emptive counter-terrorism attack within Indian territory to eliminate terrorists who were planning major attacks within India with the help of Pakistani entities. This is a legitimate act by a sovereign state.
The precedent has been established firmly that India would do everything to protect itself and no option is excluded from such an ambit is well-established by this strike
The bogey of 'strategic restraint' is buried because their defence minister had just the earlier day boasted of using TNWs.
The attacks were well-publicized and owned up by GoI and without even a murmur from the so-called 'world community' who were cited earlier as another reason responsible for our restraint.
In fact, if anything, there is a sense of acknowledgement of the inevitability of India's right to retaliate. India must now repeatedly emphasize this de-facto acknowledgemt to establish it as a basic, unquestionable rule
Countries that need to get the message that because of their involvement in Pakistan, India may hesitate to mount military operations, should have also got the appropriate message now
By carefully choosing and attacking terrorist camps, India has put Pakistan and its backers completely on the mat
The repeated emphasis of the fact that there was no 'border crossing' because POK is also Indian territory is sound logic
The perfect timing of this counter-terrorism attack shuts up dissenting voices once and for all: coming after the Pathankot, Pampore & Uri attacks; unwillingness of Pakistan to investigate the Pathankot attack even after unprecedented access to PAFB by India; the missed opportunity by Pakistan to further peace even after the unprecedented visit by Modi to Lahore; the slight shown to the Indian Home Minister at the SAARC summit; the instigation of terror in Kashmir since June and the Pakistani PM owning up its involvement in UNGA by referring to a Hizb-ul-Mujahideen commander as a martyr; the accusations of Afghanistan and Bangladesh of Pakistan supporting terrorism in their respective countries and interfering in their affairs. All these make it easier to 'defend' the Indian Arm's action, if defence was needed indeed. In future, the Indian leadership need not show extraordinary patience before taking appropriate action. In fact, such a self-restraint would not be tolerated within the country.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 01 Oct 2016 07:42

Pakis talk like they are happy to die fighting India (or any other kafir) But the self preservation meme is strong. Maybe the jihadi lives are not valued much but the trainers and indoctrinations and middle level LeT operatives in each camp are worried.

More like the very pious were sh!tting bricks and mutinied at the thought of being a premature news item.

partha · Post by **partha** » 01 Oct 2016 08:50

This is what is likely to happen next:

After a brief period of calm, Pakis will conduct a terror attack in an Indian city. Modi haters in India will gleefully point out Modi's surgical strike strategy has failed to stop terror attacks and call for Doval's resignation. Pakis will verbatim copy the arguments of useful idiots and claim victory and of course, ISPR trained Aman ki Asha Pakis will write articles about how talks are the only option.

I hope Modi Govt has thought through this scenario.

LokeshC · Post by **LokeshC** » 01 Oct 2016 09:23

The only option they got against this is to absorb periodic surgical strikes it and push on with MORE terror camps. With some of them setup as a trap to lure in the surgical SF people and impose a cost on such operations.

But to do that they would need to increase the frequency and the manpower (or pigpower) to push more mad@rch()ds accross the LOC and faking a few "decoy camps".

If they successfully do that, they would increase the number of terror incidents in India, and also make surgical strike ineffective. I believe this would have been gamed out, and we would need to change strategies appropriately.

Time for autonomous drones.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 01 Oct 2016 09:27

LokeshC wrote:Time for autonomous drones.

+1 Get that Rustom II ready.

GShankar · Post by **GShankar** » 01 Oct 2016 09:38

partha wrote:This is what is likely to happen next:

After a brief period of calm, Pakis will conduct a terror attack in an Indian city. Modi haters in India will gleefully point out Modi's surgical strike strategy has failed to stop terror attacks and call for Doval's resignation. Pakis will verbatim copy the arguments of useful idiots and claim victory and of course, ISPR trained Aman ki Asha Pakis will write articles about how talks are the only option.

I hope Modi Govt has thought through this scenario.

It had happened already in Modi Govt. It was Pathankot.

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 01 Oct 2016 09:54

Suppose India hereafter conducts surgical strikes but utterly does not talk about them?

Bheeshma · Post by **Bheeshma** » 01 Oct 2016 09:59

Who said its not been happening? Whats new is that they talked about it.

LokeshC · Post by **LokeshC** » 01 Oct 2016 10:06

Its a game of attrition. i.e. the Bakis never had to worry about loss of piglets and their own lives (of the non cannon fodder) on their side of the border. Even if they were happening they could have buried it (no pun intended).

Now that there are no more guarantees of either H&D or saw-varginity. The only way they can keep this going is to try and win the attrition game and limit casualties on their side to cannon fodder (which they have aplenty). Basically kill more of our boys one way or the other, within their borders or ours until one side (and they would hope its us) calls it quits.

From the Baki side, if they were to escalate, the first step would be to increase the infrastructure to feed the now higher attrition rate (due to a possibility of a strike from the Indian side). The second step would be to increase the cost on such a strike.

They are playing with fire, but they are already in flames. What is left to lose?

In a war of attrition, autonomous war machines are the disruption. It is about time we have these things in more numbers, more than the number of cannon fodder and a few special ones for the gernails and the kernails.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 01 Oct 2016 10:08

For once i agree with Raj Thackeray

Slams Salman Khan. Inko sirf dhandha dikhta hain.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/vide ... 608888.cms

arun · Post by **arun** » 01 Oct 2016 10:31

A supportive of India Editorial by the Wall Street Journal:

Consequences of Pakistani Terrorism
Raids signal that India won’t tolerate more attacks in Kashmir.

India’s doctrine of “strategic restraint” toward Pakistan was tested again Wednesday, after the Indian Army responded to a Sept. 18 attack against an Indian base that killed 19 soldiers by conducting raids against terrorist facilities just inside Pakistan-controlled Kashmir. Islamabad has addressed the incidents with its usual mix of bluster and denial, but if it means to prevent an escalation of violence it needs to shut down the terrorist groups it continues to support.

That should start with Jaish-e-Mohammad (Army of Mohammed) and Lashkar-e-Taiba (Army of the Pure), two major jihadist groups that operate openly in Pakistan and are prime suspects in these attacks. Both groups are supported by its military despite being on United Nations lists of terrorist organizations. Last month the U.S. Defense Department blocked $300 million in reimbursements to Pakistan because of its continuing tolerance of the Haqqani Network that operates in Pakistan and Afghanistan.

The Pakistani government insists it had nothing to do with the attack on Uri, as well as with a similar attack in Pathankot in January that killed another seven Indian soldiers. Pakistan’s military goes so far as to deny the raids took place and blamed India for an unprovoked artillery attack across the Line of Control that killed two Pakistani soldiers. Defense Minister Khawaja Muhammad Asif even accused India of staging the Uri attack and repeated past threats to use tactical nuclear weapons.

But as Indian Prime Minister Narendra Modi noted in a speech on Sunday, so far this year the Indian Army has thwarted 17 attempts by terrorists to cross the border from Pakistan, killing 110 of them. These incursions often occur under the cover of Pakistani artillery fire. New Delhi also presented evidence Tuesday that the Uri attackers crossed the border from the Pakistani city of Muzaffarabad. Two guides who assisted the infiltrators have been detained.

Mr. Modi has consistently offered closer economic and diplomatic ties to Pakistan as long as it stops supporting terrorism. Pakistan’s democratic government has also long been threatened by the very jihadist groups it helped unleash, particularly the Taliban. And Pakistan increasingly risks becoming a pariah state. Even China, Pakistan’s “all-weather friend” as both countries put it, will have limited patience if Islamic extremism spreads into its Muslim-majority northwest.

Pakistan remains trapped by a national identity based on fomenting religious-based insurgencies in Kashmir. The country needs a new vision centered on improving the lives of its people, and there is no shortage of potentially willing hands, including Mr. Modi’s, to help it move in that direction. What’s needed is political courage in Islamabad, before the crisis in Kashmir escalates.

From here:

Consequences of Pakistani Terrorism : Raids signal that India won’t tolerate more attacks in Kashmir.

MohdKav · Post by **MohdKav** » 01 Oct 2016 12:23

Karan M wrote:For once i agree with Raj Thackeray

Slams Salman Khan. Inko sirf dhandha dikhta hain.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/vide ... 608888.cms

Very well said by him but Who gave them work visas (if you dont know, it is quite hard to get them in India, more so if you are a Pakistani )
Why isnt India declaring Pakistan a terrorist state ?

naruto · Post by **naruto** » 01 Oct 2016 12:46

^^ If cricket and other sport can be suspended, then why not all cultural ties including filmi ones be suspended. Govt. doesn't always ask BCCI to cancel ties with pakis. BCCI office bearers publicly condemn terrorist attacks and say no to cricket ties with pukes. Can't the filmi studios/producers/directors do that? Has everything to be done by govt.? As if there is no dearth of talent in India why promote those puki khans?

Zynda · Post by **Zynda** » 01 Oct 2016 12:49

A little OT on the above topic. Arnab had a discussion about Banning Pak Actors on his Newshour program on Friday Sept 30. A retired col, who also happens to be dad of a soldier killed during Kargil was among the panel. One lady from Bwood gang joined in during mid-debate. She was speaking in her fake US accent about why its banning Pak Actors is a non-issue and when the above gentlemen was asked to respond, she started interrupting him in a patronizing tone (basically she was saying "if u stop screaming and start talking, I can understand you"). Arnab got so pissed with that girl and he gave her a sound trashing before booting her off his show. The lady never expected it coming LOL

arun · Post by **arun** » 01 Oct 2016 12:53

US asks her Major Non NATO Ally, the Mohammadden Terrorist fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan to can the Nuclear Weapon Dropping rhetoric being thrown about by the likes of the Islamic Republic’s Defence Minister

Also on Nuclear matters, a question on Hillary Clintons comment on the dangers of the Islamic Republics Tactical Nuclear Weapons falling into the hands of Un-uniformed Jihadi’s from the hands of the Uniformed Jihadi’s.

Then off course questions on India’s boots on the ground Cross LoC strike:

Mark C. Toner
Deputy Spokesperson
Daily Press Briefing
Washington, DC
September 30, 2016 …………….

QUESTION: Have you got any assurance from either India or Pakistan regarding the situation on the Line of Control about what future course of action each of them might take?

MR TONER: Do we have any – I apologize, any clarity, you said?

QUESTION: Any assurance from either India or Pakistan on what future action they might plan on the LOC.

MR TONER: Well, I think John Kirby spoke a little bit about this. We’re continuing to follow the situation on the ground very closely. From our perspective, we urge calm and restraint by both sides. We understand that the Pakistani and Indian militaries have been in communication and we believe that continued communication between them is important to reduce tensions. I think we don’t – certainly don’t want to see any kind of escalation and any – and certainly any kind of break in that communication. We have repeatedly and consistently expressed our concerns regarding the danger that cross-border terrorism poses for the region, and that certainly includes the recent attacks – terrorist attacks in Uri. And we continue to urge actions to combat and de-escalate – and delegitimize, rather, terrorist groups like Lashkar-e Talaba – Tayyiba, rather – Haqqani Network, as well as Jaish-e-Mohammad.

Yes, sir, then I’ll go to you, Matt.

QUESTION: Yeah, it’s from the same – I just have some – few clarification.

MR TONER: Okay.

QUESTION: Did you have any pre-knowledge of this so-called Indian surgical strike on Pakistani soil?

MR TONER: No, I don’t have anything for you on that, sorry.

QUESTION: And it’s all based on an Indian statement that this happened, and the Pakistan says it didn’t happen and then it says two killed and they have arrested – so what – on what basis are you reacting? On the basis of the statement from India, on the basis of – do you have – I know you don’t talk about the intelligence matters.

MR TONER: I mean, we have high-level engagement, as you can imagine, with both governments, and our assessment is based on that.

QUESTION: So you confirm it happened?

MR TONER: It’s not for me to confirm it happened. It’s for the governments themselves to speak to their roles.

QUESTION: Okay. And then there was calls between Secretary Kerry and Indian External Affairs Minister Sushma Swaraj.

MR TONER: There was --

QUESTION: And --

MR TONER: -- a few days ago.

QUESTION: -- what – yeah, what was – was there a suggestion from Secretary to Indian minister to cool down the – the whatever was going on at the UNGA and take it easy before this happened?

MR TONER: I’ll have to see if I can get you a readout of that call, but again, it’s part of our – we’re very concerned about the situation there. We don’t want to see it escalate any further. And as part of that concern, the Secretary is certainly engaged and talking to Indian leadership – senior Indian leadership.

QUESTION: Just the last one.

QUESTION: Can I have --

QUESTION: Just the last one. Pakistan has reacted, saying that if India does it again, they will react. And then they also talked about using nukes. Like, they don’t have a no-first-use policy, like India has declared a no-first-use. So do you – according to – as you have high-level connections and the intelligence reports, which you do not talk from the podium --

MR TONER: Right.

QUESTION: -- do you expect further trouble?

MR TONER: I mean, in terms – so just to answer your question about some of the rhetoric from the Pakistani Government and the possibility of using nukes or nuclear weapons, I would just say nuclear-capable states have a very clear responsibility to exercise restraint regarding nuclear weapons and missile capabilities. And that’s my message publicly and that’s certainly our message directly to the Pakistani authorities.

QUESTION: So after your call for restrain and calm, the signals that you get from India and Pakistan – are they reassuring for you?

MR TONER: I don’t have a real readout. I mean, I think we’re just still following the situation on the ground very closely.

Please.

QUESTION: Yeah. Today New York Times published an article based on leaked audio of Secretary Clinton’s fundraiser in which she is heard as saying – expressing concerns about the security of Pakistani nuclear weapons, and she also talks about a nuclear suicide bomber kind of thing. Do you agree with her assessment? Do you have concerns about Pakistan’s nuclear security?

MR TONER: Well, I think I just attempted to speak to that concern about some of the rhetoric, as I said, we’ve seen coming out of Pakistan, regarding its nuclear weapons or – with regard to – I haven’t seen her remarks, honestly. I just haven’t seen them, so I can’t speak to them. Sorry.

QUESTION: The rhetoric or the statement has come from none other than the defense minister himself. And in this month twice in interviews, he has said use (inaudible).

MR TONER: But I – sorry. I don’t mean to talk over you, but I just said obviously we believe that nuclear-capable states have a very clear responsibility to use nuclear weapons responsibly.

QUESTION: To not use them.

MR TONER: Well, to not use them, exactly. But also to refrain from rhetoric – did I say use --

QUESTION: Use them responsibly. (Laughter.)

MR TONER: Well, this is what happens when you keep me up here for 90-plus minutes.

QUESTION: (Off-mike.)

MR TONER: Yeah. To not use nuclear weapons. And with that, I’m going to cut you all off. I want to go to –

From here:

Clicky

partha · Post by **partha** » 01 Oct 2016 12:55

Two problems with Govt not giving out visa to Paki artists:

1) Doesn't stop producers from signing Pakis and shooting their scenes outside India. A couple of years back, there was a Mahesh Bhatt's movie based out of London. It had both Indian and Paki artists.

2) Indian Govt will be seen as being against "people to people contact", "art", "cultural exchanges" etc. Creating right perceptions is important.

So it is best for Govt to work with association of producers behind the scenes to impose a ban on importing Paki artists. This guarantees movies with Paki artists will have trouble releasing in India, the biggest market. That ensures Mahesh Bhatts of Bollywood don't resort to tricks like those mentioned above.

Gyan · Post by **Gyan** » 01 Oct 2016 13:04

partha wrote:This is what is likely to happen next:

After a brief period of calm, Pakis will conduct a terror attack in an Indian city. Modi haters in India will gleefully point out Modi's surgical strike strategy has failed to stop terror attacks and call for Doval's resignation. Pakis will verbatim copy the arguments of useful idiots and claim victory and of course, ISPR trained Aman ki Asha Pakis will write articles about how talks are the only option.

I hope Modi Govt has thought through this scenario.

Against a war of thousand cuts we need to follow a policy of a million counter strikes in retaliation

arun · Post by **arun** » 01 Oct 2016 13:07

^^^ +1.

IMO It is all about messaging. If correctly done wrong perceptions will not arise.

Thus from an Indian standpoint it must be explained the purpose of people to people contact is to make citizens of the Mohammadden Terrorist fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan empathise with India and Indians. When citizens of the Mohammadden Terrorist fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan who have benefited the most, that too monetarily, fail to empathise with India when Indians are killed, the clearly people to people contact has not worked particularly when these same thespians went about condemning Peshawar School attack and Paris Bombing. If put across that way, no wrong perception will come about.

Then India needs to point that the Mohammadden Terrorist fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan has a solid track record of politicising apolitical matters. The Islamic Republic it will be recollected boycotted the Moscow Olympics for political reasons.

MohdKav · Post by **MohdKav** » 01 Oct 2016 13:18

partha wrote:Two problems with Govt not giving out visa to Paki artists:

1) Doesn't stop producers from signing Pakis and shooting their scenes outside India. A couple of years back, there was a Mahesh Bhatt's movie based out of London. It had both Indian and Paki artists.

2) Indian Govt will be seen as being against "people to people contact", "art", "cultural exchanges" etc. Creating right perceptions is important.

So it is best for Govt to work with association of producers behind the scenes to impose a ban on importing Paki artists. This guarantees movies with Paki artists will have trouble releasing in India, the biggest market. That ensures Mahesh Bhatts of Bollywood don't resort to tricks like those mentioned above.

No, Whats wrong with that?
Let the spend more and do it outside India, if the government is not ready to 'see itself as not promoting art or people to people contact" , then why are we asking Media houses to do otherwise. Lets accept it, until the government takes a tough stances, media and others wont.

partha · Post by **partha** » 01 Oct 2016 13:25

MohdKav wrote:
partha wrote:Two problems with Govt not giving out visa to Paki artists:

1) Doesn't stop producers from signing Pakis and shooting their scenes outside India. A couple of years back, there was a Mahesh Bhatt's movie based out of London. It had both Indian and Paki artists.

2) Indian Govt will be seen as being against "people to people contact", "art", "cultural exchanges" etc. Creating right perceptions is important.

So it is best for Govt to work with association of producers behind the scenes to impose a ban on importing Paki artists. This guarantees movies with Paki artists will have trouble releasing in India, the biggest market. That ensures Mahesh Bhatts of Bollywood don't resort to tricks like those mentioned above.
No, Whats wrong with that?
Let the spend more and do it outside India, if the government is not ready to 'see itself as not promoting art or people to people contact" , then why are we asking Media houses to do otherwise. Lets accept it, until the government takes a tough stances, media and others wont.

No, it's not about making it expensive to producers by forcing them to shoot outside India. They have enough money and a good portion of most of the A list movies these days are shot outside so cost is not a factor.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 01 Oct 2016 13:26

MohdKav wrote:
partha wrote:Two problems with Govt not giving out visa to Paki artists:

1) Doesn't stop producers from signing Pakis and shooting their scenes outside India. A couple of years back, there was a Mahesh Bhatt's movie based out of London. It had both Indian and Paki artists.

2) Indian Govt will be seen as being against "people to people contact", "art", "cultural exchanges" etc. Creating right perceptions is important.

So it is best for Govt to work with association of producers behind the scenes to impose a ban on importing Paki artists. This guarantees movies with Paki artists will have trouble releasing in India, the biggest market. That ensures Mahesh Bhatts of Bollywood don't resort to tricks like those mentioned above.
No, Whats wrong with that?
Let the spend more and do it outside India, if the government is not ready to 'see itself as not promoting art or people to people contact" , then why are we asking Media houses to do otherwise. Lets accept it, until the government takes a tough stances, media and others wont.

It should quietly encourage parties like the SS and MNS to block releases of such cross border ventures in India.

this separation of the paki "state" and the paki "people" is a patently bogus narrative that is increasingly being trotted out.

Which war with India have the paki "people" opposed, that the paki "state" has unilaterally entered into, against the wishes of it's "people"?? This bull $hit narrative needs to be jettisoned ASAP.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 01 Oct 2016 13:35

tailoring democracy to pak "environment"???

islamic state and democracy are oxymorons. It's a patent lie to claim otherwise.

islamic state and democracy are also mutually exclusive and one is the implacable enemy of the other.

senile musharraf is either hallucinating, delusional or is suffering from dementia.

Democracy has not been tailored to Pak environment: Musharraf

Democracy has not been tailored to Pak environment: Musharraf

Washington, Oct 1, 2016

'Army has always had a role since our independence. It has played a very prominent role in the governance of Pakistan, mainly because of misgovernance by all the so-called democratically-elected governments,' Musharraf said in an interview at the Washington Ideas Forum here on Thursday.

The army has often played a prominent role in the governance of Pakistan as democracy has not been tailored to its environment, the country's former president Gen (retd) Pervez Musharraf has said.

"Army has always had a role since our independence. It has played a very prominent role in the governance of Pakistan, mainly because of misgovernance by all the so-called democratically-elected governments," Musharraf said in an interview at the Washington Ideas Forum here on Thursday.

He said the "inherent weakness" of Pakistan is that democracy in the country has not been tailored in accordance with the dictates of the environment. "There are no checks and balances within the system. The constitution doesn't provide those checks and balances."

"Therefore, the military is forced and pulled, sucked into the political environment, especially when misgovernance is going on and Pakistan is going down in all socioeconomic indicators. The public and the people massively run towards the army chief, and that is how the army gets involved," Musharraf said, justifying the frequent military coups in the country.

Chinmayanand · Post by **Chinmayanand** » 01 Oct 2016 13:40

GoI can simply direct the Censor Board to not give certificates to films with porkistani actors/actresses . Problem solved.

MohdKav · Post by **MohdKav** » 01 Oct 2016 13:47

chetak wrote:
MohdKav wrote:
No, Whats wrong with that?
Let the spend more and do it outside India, if the government is not ready to 'see itself as not promoting art or people to people contact" , then why are we asking Media houses to do otherwise. Lets accept it, until the government takes a tough stances, media and others wont.
It should quietly encourage parties like the SS and MNS to block releases of such cross border ventures in India.

this separation of the paki "state" and the paki "people" is a patently bogus narrative that is increasingly being trotted out.

Which war with India have the paki "people" opposed, that the paki "state" has unilaterally entered into, against the wishes of it's "people"?? This bull $hit narrative needs to be jettisoned ASAP.

the idiots believe, average pakistani equal to average indian, average indian maybe a conservative secularist, but the average pakistani is a bigoted religious supremacist

the government should 'declare' Pakistan a terrorist state, before it asks Americans to do it. Walk the talk!

arun · Post by **arun** » 01 Oct 2016 14:19

X Posted from the “India-Russia: News & Analysis” thread.

Official Press Release by Russia’s Foreign Ministry.

Note last line where the Mohammadden Terrorist fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan is specifically and solely called upon to “take effective measures to stop the activities of terrorist groups in its territory” particularly the words “in its territory”.

Does this mean that Russia is okay with terrorist acivities in Non-Pakistani territory such as Pakistan Occupied Jammu & Kashmir?

Or does this mean that Russia considers Pakistan Occupied Jammu & Kashmir as Pakistani Territory?

Trust our MEA will seek a clarification from the Russian’s :

30 September 2016 16:45
Comment by the Information and Press Department on the rise in tensions along the Line of Control between India and Pakistan

1778-30-09-2016

We are concerned over the latest rise in tensions along the Line of Control between India and Pakistan.

We are calling on the parties to avoid an escalation of tensions and to resolve the existing problems by political and diplomatic means through talks.

We advocate a resolute fight against all manifestations of terrorism.

We hope that the Pakistani Government will take effective measures to stop the activities of terrorist groups in its territory.

Clicky

arun · Post by **arun** » 01 Oct 2016 16:33

Journalist presumable originating in Mohammadden Terrorist fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan and presumable one Masood Haider of Dawn, seeks to paint the situation in Jammu and Kashmir as the equivalent of what is happening in Syria, gets swatted down by Spokesperson for the UN Secretary General:

28 SEPTEMBER 2016
Daily Press Briefing by the Office of the Spokesperson for the Secretary-General ………….

Khalas. Masood?

Question: Thank you, Stéphane. I know Secretary‑General today expressed extreme outrage, with what happened in Syria and what is happening in Syria, which is absolutely outrageous. What I'm saying is that similar situation exists in Kashmir, and… and Pakistan and India are now getting ready to go to war. I mean, war [inaudible]. Has the Secretary‑General talked to either the Prime Minister of India or Prime Minister of Pakistan offering good offices again or not? Or will he do that…

Spokesman: Without commenting on the comparison you make, obviously, I think you've seen what we've already said on the situation in Kashmir. I have nothing to add to what we've already said and what already stands.

Question: [inaudible] will… I mean, what I'm saying is, knowing what the situation is there and…

Spokesman: I think we know what the situation is, and I said, our position on good offices and the current situation remains the same, and I would refer you to what we've been saying the last couple of… the last…

Question: So he's not going to talk…

Spokesman: I'd refer you to what we've said in the last couple of weeks. Mr. Lee?

Here:

Clicky

arun · Post by **arun** » 01 Oct 2016 16:50

30 SEPTEMBER 2016
Daily Press Briefing by the Office of the Spokesperson for the Secretary-General

The following is a near-verbatim transcript of today’s noon briefing by Stéphane Dujarric, Spokesman for the Secretary-General. ………………

Spokesman: Masood?

Question: Yes, sir. Stéphane, this morning, Pakistan's ambassador to the United Nations met with the Secretary‑General and discussed the escalating tensions between India and Pakistan. And do you have any sort of… as to what they discussed and as what… because she apparently, I believe, that she even asked him to call the Prime Minister of India and Pakistan. Is that true?

Spokesman: Well, you seem to have a better readout than I do of the meeting. Yes, they did meet at the request of the . You know, we do not give readouts of the Secretary‑General's meetings with the PRs. I can obviously tell you that the Secretary‑General is following the situation along the Line of Control between India and Pakistan with great concern and the increased tensions along the Line of Control, as well as the escalating rhetoric between the two countries. As I said yesterday, the UN Observer Group for India and Pakistan (UNMOGIP) is aware of the reports of presumed ceasefire violations and is liaising with the concerned authorities to obtain further information. The Secretary‑General urges the Governments of India and Pakistan to exercise maximum restraint and address the outstanding issues peacefully and through dialogue. He would welcome all proposals in that regard as well as de-escalating initiatives… any de-escalation initiatives. The Secretary‑General also recalls the role played by UNMOGIP, which is deployed to observe, to the extent possible, developments pertaining to the strict observance of the 1971 ceasefire and to report thereon to the Secretary‑General. UNMOGIP has not directly observed any firing across the Line of Control related to the latest incidents.

Question: Thank you. Does the Secretary-General have any plans to call the Indian Prime Minister?

Spokesman: If we have anything to share on that regard, I will share them with you. Yes, go ahead and then Edie.

Question: Sorry, what you just said, that UNMOGIP did not observe any firing across the Line; the Indians are saying basically that the surgical strikes did go.

Spokesman: What I'm saying is that UNMOGIP has not directly observed any of the… any firing. They're obviously aware of the reports of these presumed violations, and they're talking to the relevant… to the concerned authorities.

Clicky

Taking advantage of the fact, as pointed out by Stéphane Dujarric in the above transcript, that the UN does not give readouts of the Secretary‑General's meetings with Permanent Representatives, the Terrorist fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan has taken license to make all sorts of claims about what the UN Secretary General Ban Ki Moon said in the meeting with Academic Plagiarist "Dr." Maleeha Lodhi:

United Nations unable to function in Jammu & Kashmir due to India's non-cooperation

Meanwhile that the 40 something UNMOGIP Military Observers deployed on both sides of the 740 LoC saw nothing Is the latest Honour & Dignity preserving straw being clutched by the Mohammadden Terrorist fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan that India did not thumb their noses at the Islamic Republic of Pakistan’s strategy of waging Jihad under a Nuclear Umbrella and did launch a boots on the ground cross LoC mission to exterminate Mohammadden Terrorists. The dimwits have also not realised that UNMOGIP has also not supported the Islamic Republics claim that the Indian attack was cross border firing

:

There were no surgical strikes on LoC: UN monitoring mission (UNMOGIP)

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 01 Oct 2016 17:27

Zynda wrote:. . . One lady from Bwood gang joined in during mid-debate.

She was, I think, a Pakistani model & actor.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 01 Oct 2016 17:31

partha wrote:Two problems with Govt not giving out visa to Paki artists:

1) Doesn't stop producers from signing Pakis and shooting their scenes outside India. A couple of years back, there was a Mahesh Bhatt's movie based out of London. It had both Indian and Paki artists.

partha, the producers can shoot outside India, but how are they going to pay the actors and account to India tax authorities?

2) Indian Govt will be seen as being against "people to people contact", "art", "cultural exchanges" etc. Creating right perceptions is important.

The time is long past to consider the entire nation of Pakistan as a terrorist nation. We do not want people-to-people contact tamasha. If we want to slay the hydra-headed monster we need to slay every head. No half-measures would do anymore.

arun · Post by **arun** » 01 Oct 2016 17:59

SSridhar wrote:
Zynda wrote:. . . One lady from Bwood gang joined in during mid-debate.
She was, I think, a Pakistani model & actor.

Not from the Islamic Republic of Pakistan. One of our very own by name of Mita Vashisht.

An Army Brat, her father served in the Indian Army and retired with the rank of Colonel.

SSharma · Post by **SSharma** » 01 Oct 2016 19:11

^^ it happens only in india

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 01 Oct 2016 20:18

One of the biggest differences I find between the west and India is a total communication gap between actions taken by the government and the public. The SF strikes against camps were a rare exception to that general rule. I can can write a short monograph on why we must not have Paki actors - but that monograph would also say why we should not be having people to people contact either. So far only Uddhav Thakeray (or was it his cousin?) in a video posted on this forum has explained it with any clarity.

The fundamental fact is that a very large percentage of Pakistanis - and certainly all Pakistanis born after 1974 have been indoctrinated to blame India and Hindus (and to an extent the West) for all their problems. We on BRF have known this for years. My own ebook - which went online nearly a decade ago itself had material about education dating from even earlier. We are dealing with a country where the people are hostile and taught to hate. Some of them do behave friendly and many are probably truly sensible, but many simply will not support the Indian viewpoint on terrorism simply because their views have been moulded to see Indians, especially Hindus as evil. This sounds like total Hindootva jingo fakeology unless efforts are made to publish the right data. Pakis cannot be made to love by love alone because they are taught that Hindus will pretend love and stab them in the back. We boast so much about Intel info from Pakistan. How difficult is it to get textbooks from paki schools and publish details? This is "intellectual work" that Indians are not doing

As I see it - general shoddiness, ignorance and moorkhta extend into government as well apart from media. As an unrelated example to illustrate this we have the current water imbroglio between TN and Ka - which is basically a drama where both sides and the Supreme court have absolutely no clue about the exact volumes of water received in Ka as rainfall and what can be practically shared. Blind leading the blind.

In India too we have the blind leading the blind and 140 character Twitter is ideal to hide ignorance. I read a recent article about increasing intellectualism among the right wing but still nowhere near the libtards. Some person who genuinely feels that Paki actors should not be in India needs to put down cogent informed reasons as to why there should not be people to people exchange. Rest is mainly fluff.

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 01 Oct 2016 20:29

Rabi 2016 sowing season: Sindh and Punjab face 18% cut in water share

The Indus River System Authority (Irsa) has decided on a reduction of 18% in the water share of Sindh and Punjab in the Rabi 2016 crop-sowing season, which commences from October 1.

Balochistan and Khyber-Pakhtunkhwa, however, have been exempted from the impact of water shortage as their demand is relatively lower than Sindh and Punjab.

Cheers