Army strikes terror camps in PoK

Dumal · Post by **Dumal** » 01 Oct 2016 23:08

What is the source of the Paki bravado regarding their denial of the surgical strikes? They know full well that India must have photos and video of the strikes. Their pol can be kholled at any moment by India. Why then are they denying everything so confidently?

India's photos and videos when they come will simply be called fake and doctored as well. If they can deny Kargil and turn the blame on us for Chittisinghpura, Mumbai, Uri and more, why do we doubt they would worry much about India's videos.

We are better off using the evidence to brief the diplomats with and other productive purposes.

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 01 Oct 2016 23:13

The Army’s surgical strikes along the Line of Control (LoC) early Thursday that destroyed seven terror launch pads were carried out by 70-80 commandos from two separate battalions of Para Special Forces (SF) with IAF attack helicopters kept ready at four bases in J&K to address any contingency, sources told The Indian Express.
Commandos of 4 Para SF crossed the LoC at the Tutmari Gali area in the Nowgam sector of Kupwara some time after midnight, almost simultaneously with those of 9 Para SF between Balnoi and Nangi Tekri in the Poonch area, sources said.

India's Surgical Strikes: Exclusive Details Of The Operation

Travelling a distance of between 1-3 km, the Para commandos reached their designated targets by foot, and by 2 am, started destroying the launch pads using shoulder-fired Carl Gustav 84mm rocket launchers and automatic grenade launchers, said sources.
According to IAF sources, Mi-35 attack helicopters were kept in a state of readiness, although their bases had no prior information about the impending ground operation, they said.
The Army had kept the LoC over an arc of 250 km under surveillance for the past one week, and shelling on various posts on the other side had started by 9pm Wednesday to confuse the Pakistan army, said sources. Extensive helicopter movement during the day on Wednesday was also undertaken as part of the plan to feign enhanced military activity in areas where operations were not being launched, they said.
Having destroyed the launch pads, the para commandos started moving back to the Indian side of the LoC when one of them received a minor injury from a mine blast. The injury, official Army sources said, was not on account of any enemy or terrorist action. All the para commando teams had returned to the Indian side of the LoC by 4.30 am Thursday and the operation, which had not been given any code name, was officially called off at 8 am.

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... y-3059059/

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 01 Oct 2016 23:20

several of them were on stand by if our boys get stuck! But the call never came!

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 01 Oct 2016 23:28

I read somewhere it was

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 01 Oct 2016 23:37

Rahul M wrote:
zoverian wrote:MY intuition…..there will retaliation From Pakistan…
my intuition.... the sun will come up in east tomorrow...

seriously though, this is one of the biggest non sequiturs I have ever seen on BRF.

please tell, which incident was being retaliated at in pampore ? pathankot ? gurdaspur ? srinagar ? delhi ? mumbai ? varanasi ? pune ? 26/11 mumbai ? delhi ? ahmedabad ? jaipur ? ..... the list goes on all the way back to 1993 mumbai blasts or may be even earlier to the khalistani group attacks.
pakistan didn't need any casus belli for their terror attacks for the last 33 years. why should they suddenly this one to justify a "retaliation" ?

the fact is the TSP state with its killigion is already performing at 100% efficiency to hurt India in any which way. any counter strike by us that forces them to divert even one soldier or one rupee for defence is one less asset for exporting to India.

+ 10000

Sometimes even some people even on BRF just open their mouths without thinking like DDM and other worthies. Thank you for your intuition Mr Zoverian. When are you going on Geo TV?

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 01 Oct 2016 23:48

Dumal wrote:I get the feeling that Pakistan's response so far is not as we expected and that maybe why Parrikar poked them today saying Pakistan is too shocked to respond.

Also they started with a song and dance on Thursday about 2 border posts destroyed, a number of Indian soldiers killed and one taken into custody but all that has receded quickly out of view except maybe for the soldier in custody and the few doctored videos. What could be going on? I wonder what options India has to secure the soldier. I wish we had dragged a few uniformed Pakis along at the end of the surgical strikes for just such an eventuality.

Whats all this focus on 'Pak response'. I wonder if some of us have been asleep the last few decades...they have been attacking - on the LC, through terrorist proxies and then with combined Pak Fauj and Jihadi teams (BAT) for ages. Now they will have to factor in our 'repsonse'. What will they do ? We had live terrorist targets that we hit and finished. Who will they attack ...we have no terror camps on our side ? Will they attack the army across LC or BSF or civilians along IB ? That they have already done many times and they will be given a bloody nose if they do. Terror srikes by sleeper cells will of course happen. So what....they would anyway.

Remember now they will think a 100 times before having launchpads close to LC so infilatration parties will have to start much deeper inland in POK and consist of smaller numbers. So infilatration will come down definitely. If they use regular army or PAF then we welcome it. Go ahead make my day punk !

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 01 Oct 2016 23:49

IndraD wrote:....According to IAF sources, Mi-35 attack helicopters were kept in a state of readiness, although their bases had no prior information about the impending ground operation...

Would Akbars just casually fly out to PoK w/o any prior knowledge and preparation for the op? The CCS meeting did not even have the Air Chief. This seems to be a pure IA operation.

nishu wrote:DG ISPR Shows LOC Place Where India Claims Surgical Strikes | Geo News

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbtJspkYIhY

Shucks it was all a lie!

zoverian wrote:MY intuition…..there will retaliation From Pakistan…as Pakistani chief has nothing to lose….by retaliating he will try to leave a legacy…..( we have to be careful for at least a month).....

In military terms we have been "careful" for decades in J&K; you have one full fledged Army command with 3 Corps plus ITBP and BSF. Plus elements of the Western Command are also in Jammu (eg; T-72 unit in Samba falls under Western army). On Paki the holding footprint is quite small in comparison. There is no equivalent of RR there for example.

All other things being equal - it is much tougher for Pak Army to pull off an operation like we did.

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 01 Oct 2016 23:50

Gents we have that very important thing in miltary ops now - initiative. Its up to the enemy to react to us now !!! I know we have not had it for a long time so its hard for some to come to grips with it...but relax and let it sink in. Your forces know the job so stop worrying. We are in a great position.

la.khan · Post by **la.khan** » 01 Oct 2016 23:51

zoverian wrote:MY intuition…..there will retaliation From Pakistan…as Pakistani chief has nothing to lose….by retaliating he will try to leave a legacy…..( we have to be careful for at least a month)

We need to play the same game pakis and their piglets play when they attack our army in J&K - element of surprise. Just as we don't know who or when an attack takes place, we need to do the same.

As per my understanding, there are 30-50 terrorist camps and staging areas in PoK. We need to pick & choose the camps we will hit with SFs. On any given night, we may hit one, some, many, or all terrorist camps. Do you think paki army has the resources to guard their piglets in all 30-50 camps? We pick the terrorist camps of our choice, time of our choosing and deliver the jhapads and return home, safe & sound.

If the Indian army is willing to cross the LoC, those 30-50 terrorist camps look like rich pickings

zoverian · Post by **zoverian** » 01 Oct 2016 23:53

No offence to any one......its just an intuition.......I am no expert guys.....a common man...however teammembers feedbacks well taken in a positive way

GShankar · Post by **GShankar** » 01 Oct 2016 23:54

Forget tactical responses. Strategically, we have just told everyone who is listening that Modi did deep meditation and re-discovered Indian courage from wherever the erstwhile regimes hid them. And we also may have lost our tactical brilliance of loosing from winning positions.

It is a brave new world. There can be any number of new terrorist or other kinds of attacks. But it has been made known that our proverbial stick will be used where required.

salaam · Post by **salaam** » 01 Oct 2016 23:58

zoverian wrote:No offence to any one......its just an intuition.......I am no expert guys.....a common man...however teammembers feedbacks well taken in a positive way

Don't you think most of knee-jerk Pak reactions as well as further down the road jihadi activity had already been gamed (taken into account) at the highest level.

Why do you think we cleared/sanitized 10 km of border areas for short term?

You are just stating the obvious.

Baikul · Post by **Baikul** » 02 Oct 2016 00:05

zoverian wrote:i guess this is the time when we should reveal some pics.....something.....

We need show nothing.

India won a brilliant victory, one superior to all that all the world's tanks, aircraft and guns could have provided.

That victory was not result of the troops (brave as they were) or the decisive leadership (as good as it was).

We won because we decisively and believably claim it so. Pakistan lost because they cannot prove different.

Look at the angst, the takleef. Even during the worst times at Kargil,when we had bent Pakistan over the prayer table and were humping it dry, it wasn't so.

This is the new war, welcome.

Primus · Post by **Primus** » 02 Oct 2016 00:10

There is absolutely no doubt that the 'war of a thousand cuts' from the Paki side will continue. It is our response to it that has changed and must continue to evolve. Stop ALL dealings with Pakistan - movies, bhaichara, trade, P2P pappi-jhappi etc. Stop or threaten to stop their waters. Blockade their seaports, declare them a terrorist state and withdraw MFN status. Unleash an army of Cyber Sipahis to cause mayhem on every portal. Any negative reporting/blogging by them or by our fifth column must be flooded by this army of Jingos.

Above all, be vigilant and keep our forces ready to hit back hard when (not if) there is another incident.

In short, our response needs to be a War on Many Fronts. Even if it is only an intent, it needs to be seen as a potential threat by the Pakis. Ye Laaton ke bhoot hain, baaton se nahin manenge.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 02 Oct 2016 00:46

zoverian wrote:No offence to any one......its just an intuition.......I am no expert guys.....a common man...however teammembers feedbacks well taken in a positive way

no offence intended either.

in the fight against this barbarism, common men like us are even more important than experts.
why ? because we are the ones who decide who gets to live in 7RCR. and that is why it is vitally important for our own survival and the well being of our future generations to understand the reality of the paki psyche.

plz remember, security is too important a thing to be left to the politicians or the TV experts. we have a bigger stake than them.

p.s. try this for a primer http://pakistanfailedstate.blogspot.in/ the data is a little old but the analysis is still pure gold.

Akshay Kapoor · Post by **Akshay Kapoor** » 02 Oct 2016 00:59

Very nice post. Rahul M.

Primus · Post by **Primus** » 02 Oct 2016 01:00

partha wrote:Good discussion:

http://www.ndtv.com/video/news/ndtv-spe ... eststories

1) Ambassador G Partha can't hide his smile. After all retired experts like him who advise Govt from time to time on various policy issues but must have been frustrated all these years by Govt not heeding their suggestions about strategy shift in dealing with Pakistan. Now that it's finally happened, he is smiling.

2) Sanjay Baru rightly says Pakistan crossed the red line on 26/11/2008.

3) Barkha Dutt has softened up. What happened, hain? From telling us about headmaster father of a terrorist to showing us children of martyred Indian soldiers. Also not creating false doubts in the mind of the viewers by questioning the Govt narrative.

4) Sanjay Baru compares India-Pak situation to South Korea-North Korea. Govt needs to incorporate this into its policy and project Pakistan as another North Korea. An unstable, irrational country with nukes.

Sabki Phati padi hai, they dare not have the same attitude, the Indian public is no longer tolerant enough, although my feeling is that in time, Barking Mutt will revert to her usual self. Recidivism is the norm with such people.

Sanjaya is a very good speaker and quite incisive, he was always a great orator and had his finger on the news even when we were in school together. Not surprising, coming from him, although his MMS days were disappointing.

RundeeTeevee has either done an about turn or been forced to do one. The typical anchors we all know would never be this jingoist but it was refreshing to see Sonia Singh go all ga-ga in this clip. Watch the last bit from 19.30 onwards. The sheer joy on her face as she interviews Ravi Shanker Prasad is so heartwarming. She goes better than the most die-hard Bhakt would, truly amazing.

If we can sustain this change of heart in national MSM, we would have come a long way.

khan · Post by **khan** » 02 Oct 2016 01:06

Shaktimaan wrote:RawHeel Sharif is behind the denials (because Nawaz Sharif already condemned the strikes). And since the denial is time-bound (India will probably release some evidence sooner or later), it means that RawHeel is only looking to sustain the denial for a few weeks at the most. If he wanted to retire quietly he would not care that much about his own loss of H&D. Koop incoming?

It is simpler than that.

If they acknowledge the attack - they HAVE to respond - "officially" (i.e. Not through terrorist proxies). Infact if they make the mistake of trying something, India will be completely justified in responding disproportionately.

If they acknowledge the attack and don't respond, what use is the PA? So the easier way out is to deny deny deny.

They will most like do some kind of (circa 1990 deniable) terrorist attack and India will figure out how to respond when the time comes. Now that the rules have changed, air-strikes to take out HQ's of some (or all of) these terrorist orgs is entirely within reason.

rpartha · Post by **rpartha** » 02 Oct 2016 01:14

Yes our response has changed for the good. We would have to assume/expect that Pakistan is planning on attacking at some point either using their regulars at the border or their proxies inland. The real test of Modi/our government will be after they attack. Will we continue to attack even if it means attacking an army base deep inside their border (assuming that they would have moved the terrorist bases deep inside their territory or closer to their army base)... How do you think we will respond at that time? What will be our reaction then?

salaam · Post by **salaam** » 02 Oct 2016 01:31

Doval doctrine of 'Offensive Defense' was followed comprehensively.

If Pak responds they will see Offense and Defense as required in different fronts.

sudarshan · Post by **sudarshan** » 02 Oct 2016 01:44

rpartha wrote:Yes our response has changed for the good. We would have to assume/expect that Pakistan is planning on attacking at some point either using their regulars at the border or their proxies inland. The real test of Modi/our government will be after they attack. Will we continue to attack even if it means attacking an army base deep inside their border (assuming that they would have moved the terrorist bases deep inside their territory or closer to their army base)... How do you think we will respond at that time? What will be our reaction then?

And that is where this notion of "strategic depth" comes in. The country we are talking about is so insecure WRT India, that they feel that the entire width of Pakistan is insufficient to hide from India. This is why they cultivated Afghanistan for "strategic depth" (this is their own words, not mine - the concept of "strategic depth against India" has been one of their guiding principles).

To fuel their insecurity with respect to India, the job now is to break off Balochistan (40%) and Sindh (20%) and reabsorb POK (10%). Retaliation for their "1000 cuts" nonsense is a small part of the game, India's options are much more diverse than just absorbing and retaliating to terrorist strikes.

Easy to imagine the level of paranoia this would generate in Paki circles, if their country shrank any further - even POK would do it. And if all of the above areas were to be hived off, the strategic depth which the paranoid Pakis already feel is insufficient against big bad India, now shrinks by half. What will they do? Move the capital from Islamabad? To where? If Afghanistan turns aggressively hostile, Balochistan harbors a grudge, Sindh becomes a lower riparian country (not just state) which stakes its own claims to the Indus waters (on the international, rather than national front), how deep inside Pakistan can the new capital go? It would be within several hundred km of hostile territory in any case, and there would now be no land border with China. Unless the govt. abandons Pakistan and runs a government by exile from China

.

And where are they going to hide their blessed nukes? China again?

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 02 Oct 2016 02:13

Doval messages at 4:32am on 29th to Modi, one word "Success" per Zee News. Somewhere else I read Modi did not sleep the night and was waiting for the 'call'. After receiving it, he went to do Yoga and start of his day.

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 02 Oct 2016 02:16

of course pakis will respond. Sadly IA and Current GoI are no SRK and / or Bollywood to close the matter within matinee show / evening show period and everyone goes home satisfied.
Dig your heels...long haul just started.

if people want quick closure peace & hapiness with pakis, please ask SRK and Salman. They possibly can. But the deal with Indian defense forces comes with a long delay with loss of life and limb on our side. Yes. And also grow up.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 02 Oct 2016 02:21

After this much serious discussion, some levity. All work and no laughter, makes us very boring. So here goes...

Pakistan Funda
1. To play matches they come to India
2. To sell books they come to India
3. To sing gazhals they come to India
4. For medical treatment they come to India
5. To become a famous actor they come to India

Then why the hell did we give you a separate nation?
Just to make bombs?

And height of irony is even to blast those bombs, they come to India!

---------------

All countries are trying to attract more tourists. See the taglines.

Thailand: Amazing Thailand.
India: Incredible India.
Malaysia: Truly Asia.
Australia: There's nothing like Australia.

Question: What can be the Pakistan's tourism tag line be?
Answer: Have a blast. It may be your last......

----------------

When you watch this video, please DO NOT eat/drink anything. You may die from choking, as you cannot eat/drink and laugh at the same time.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s_WtJPQsG4Q

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 02 Oct 2016 02:28

http://images.dawn.com/news/1176346/pak ... k-tensions

good to see there is sizeable left crowd in Pak as well asking for peace not war ityadi !

malushahi · Post by **malushahi** » 02 Oct 2016 02:29

Rakesh wrote: Pakistan Funda
1. To play matches they come to India
2. To sell books they come to India
3. To sing gazhals they come to India
4. For medical treatment they come to India
5. To become a famous actor they come to India

marne ke liye bhi madar..s come to india.

fikar not, home visit seva just started.

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 02 Oct 2016 02:36

Of course if they move all the camps back out if arty range then their ability to sneak up is also reduced

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 02 Oct 2016 02:54

Adnan Sami MYTY (More Yindoo than Yindoo)

But at least it took guts to write that. More than any of our own Bollywood infidels.

Craig Alpert · Post by **Craig Alpert** » 02 Oct 2016 03:18

Neela wrote:So after India strikes across LoC, firm voices of support from all over including South Korea.
Germany and Japan showed solidarity with India.
Afghanistan defends India's surgical strikes.
BD pulls out of SAARC. Bhutan as well.

What is South Korea's interest in this to come in firm support of India at this stage?
Why are they doing it?

Something has changed diplomatically.

And the image now is that If Pakis plan further mischief, it will be them who 'll be seen as escalating the conflict.

Minesweepers deal that has been on going between the two.

vinod · Post by **vinod** » 02 Oct 2016 03:58

How should Modi respond to future terrorist attacks in Kashmir?

After next attack, there should be another surgical attack. But this time, govt. should come out saying that more surgical attacks may be needed to fully cleanse the area of terrorists.

khan · Post by **khan** » 02 Oct 2016 04:18

vinod wrote:How should Modi respond to future terrorist attacks in Kashmir?

After next attack, there should be another surgical attack. But this time, govt. should come out saying that more surgical attacks may be needed to fully cleanse the area of terrorists.

India needs to get out of "template" thinking. That is the trap India has just gotten out off with this "surgical attack".

India needs to to start thinking in terms of proportionality and thinking outside the box to react accordingly. For eg, the "surgical" attack in response to a Mumbai provocation would be a weak response - airstrikes would be a more proportional response.

SwamyG · Post by **SwamyG** » 02 Oct 2016 04:50

G.Parthasarthy said about 120 soldiers [he said his figures are not accurate], enter PoK.What were the Porkis doing? That too in 6 or 7 spots. The details of the operations will never be revealed in full. Looks like the Porkis allowed 100 to 150 Indian soldiers unchallenged. Speaks volumes of their capabilities no?

williams · Post by **williams** » 02 Oct 2016 05:46

SwamyG wrote:G.Parthasarthy said about 120 soldiers [he said his figures are not accurate], enter PoK.What were the Porkis doing? That too in 6 or 7 spots. The details of the operations will never be revealed in full. Looks like the Porkis allowed 100 to 150 Indian soldiers unchallenged. Speaks volumes of their capabilities no?

After years of inaction from our side they probably
Relied on the fact we will never cross the loc. They probably have gaps in their defenses and we exploited that. Looks like they are running to uncles and Auntys to broker a peace deal now. Man theses guys throwing the towel when hit back is so predictable.

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 02 Oct 2016 06:17

Pakistan is like a macho goonda of the neighborhood who got a burning sparkler (phooljhari) rammed up their ass by some irate neighbor. The sparkler is burning their innards furiously but they cannot openly claim that some fedup uncle ji rammed a sparkler up their mush otherwise their macho H&D image in the neighborhood is toast. So they claim nothing has happened and everything is chill. While the rest of the mohalla wonders then why is Pakistan dancing around in pain while holding its mush?

Suresh S · Post by **Suresh S** » 02 Oct 2016 06:31

I Like that one

g.sarkar · Post by **g.sarkar** » 02 Oct 2016 07:17

zoverian wrote:MY intuition…..there will retaliation From Pakistan…as Pakistani chief has nothing to lose….by retaliating he will try to leave a legacy…..( we have to be careful for at least a month)
They did the nuclear test also in response to India’s nuclear test…defying all the pressure from U.S
Either they will retaliate in the same way as India did
Or
They will again launch a terrorist attack …..To see how far India is ready to take this…
MY only worry is that after a another terrorist attack…if India decide to retaliate again…India would not fall into the booby trap (decoy terrorist camp) as it was happened during BSF and Bangladesh security force incident…

Pakistan since 1947 has done what it could to gain J&K, and it has failed every time. If there is a terrorist attack, it will be just more of the same, it will not change the equation in any way. They may launch a nuclear attack, but I doubt if even that will be fruitful. Time is simply not on their side. They are isolated and even the Lizard is weary of their ideology.
It is not correct to say that Pakistan conducted their nuclear test in response to the Indian one, they already had the bum from the Lizard and there were no technical reasons to test. It was done for show, as haanthi ke daant deekhane kuchh aur khaneke kuchh aur or something like that.
Gautam

symontk · Post by **symontk** » 02 Oct 2016 07:54

g.sarkar wrote:
zoverian wrote:MY intuition…..there will retaliation From Pakistan…as Pakistani chief has nothing to lose….by retaliating he will try to leave a legacy…..( we have to be careful for at least a month)
They did the nuclear test also in response to India’s nuclear test…defying all the pressure from U.S
Either they will retaliate in the same way as India did
Or
They will again launch a terrorist attack …..To see how far India is ready to take this…
MY only worry is that after a another terrorist attack…if India decide to retaliate again…India would not fall into the booby trap (decoy terrorist camp) as it was happened during BSF and Bangladesh security force incident…
Pakistan since 1947 has done what it could to gain J&K, and it has failed every time. If there is a terrorist attack, it will be just more of the same, it will not change the equation in any way. They may launch a nuclear attack, but I doubt if even that will be fruitful. Time is simply not on their side. They are isolated and even the Lizard is weary of their ideology.
It is not correct to say that Pakistan conducted their nuclear test in response to the Indian one, they already had the bum from the Lizard and there were no technical reasons to test. It was done for show, as haanthi ke daant deekhane kuchh aur khaneke kuchh aur or something like that.
Gautam

My take is that they will do copy cat cross border attacks with regular soldiers but will shy off war since they are almost checkmated by IWT and Baluch (in a lesser way)

Question is earlier attacks were done by "non state actors", but if state actors are involving our response might change too

Raja Bose · Post by **Raja Bose** » 02 Oct 2016 08:04

SSG BATs already do that. What's new? Except now they will fear massive retaliation.

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 02 Oct 2016 08:30

BAT teams are composite groups composed of locals,SSG, and ex Service men. The BAT concept seems to be borrowed from the German stormtrooper model developed in WWI to gain local advantage in trench warfare.

Watch the great war episode on stormtrooper in YouTube for details.

maxratul · Post by **maxratul** » 02 Oct 2016 08:42

Everything now depends on how much Raheel Shareef values his H&D and the scale of his ambitions. Personally expecting him to attempt some sort of tactical brilliance.