India Border Watch: Security and Operations

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 06 Oct 2016 06:20

ANI ‏@ANI_news 5m5 minutes ago
Terrorists open fire outside an Army camp in Langate in Handwara (J&K).More details awaited

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 06 Oct 2016 06:30

abhishek_sharma wrote:ANI ‏@ANI_news 5m5 minutes ago
Terrorists open fire outside an Army camp in Langate in Handwara (J&K).More details awaited

So that's why we had artillery fire. To push more piglets in and to attack as many army camps as possible.

I wonder of this is a new group of recently infiltrated piglets or remnants of the Baramulla group.

arshyam · Post by **arshyam** » 06 Oct 2016 07:36

Militants attack army camp in Kashmir’s Kupwara - PTI via The Hindu

Militants on Thursday attacked an army camp in north Kashmir’s Kupwara district, prompting security forces to retaliate, army said.

“At around 5 am, militants opened firing on an army camp at Langate in Kupwara district, which was retaliated by the alert jawans,” an army official said.

He said there was a stand-off firing for about 15-20 minutes. No casualties were reported in the exchange of fire.

“The troops were alert and the attack was foiled,” he said, adding that a search operation was going on.

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 06 Oct 2016 07:43

just pickup 3/4 boys from nearby village and the villagers will spill the beans... saale latoon ke bhoot hain ye saare..

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 06 Oct 2016 10:42

NorthernComd.IA@NorthernComd_IA
#JKOps. Firing on Langate RR Camp. Three terrorists killed , three weapons recovered. @adgpi

arun · Post by **arun** » 06 Oct 2016 12:05

X Posted from the STFUP thread.

arun wrote:Spokesperson of the Dynastic Nehru-Gandhi family led Congress Party, discloses that the Indian Army carried out cross LoC raids in 2008, 2009, 2011 and 2013.

Congress confirms noiseless surgical strikes

Dynastic Nehru Gandhi family led Congress Party gets a sock in the eye.

Former DGMO of Indian Army from 2012 to 2014, Lt Gen Vinod Bhatia, has said that the Indian Army's retaliation post Uri cannot be compared with operations conducted when the Nehru Gandhi family dynasty led Congress Party was at the helm.

Excerpt:

Putting things contextually, Lt Gen Vinod Bhatia said, “I am a soldier and I belong to the Indian Army, which is totally apolitical – dedicated, committed and professional. Now, let us put the surgical strikes in the correct contextual framework. These surgical strikes are in a different domain, they are a defining moment, where all elements of national power, that is the diplomatic, informational, military, economic, political, cultural – have synergised, and for the first time, India has given a befitting response to terrorist operations in the counter-terror domain”. “Having said that, the earlier strikes were not even strikes, they were cross-border operations done at the local level without much planning, without much thought,” he said when asked about Congress’s claims of two surgical strikes conducted at a time when he was DGMO.

From Here:

Former DGMO refutes Congress claims of ‘surgical strikes’ during UPA tenure; says not same as post-Uri retaliation

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 06 Oct 2016 12:08

The pigsty will continue to conduct as many strikes as poss. to try and deflect the BRICS summit,etc. taking place in India.I would advise extreme carefulness to prevent any strike in Goa just before the summit. We have to show the world that we can conduct the BRICS global Eco summit-which the western media is comparing with Davos,despite the machinations and perfidious Pakis and bloody their noses ion the process.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 06 Oct 2016 14:49

Previous cross border ops during UPA regime may be similar insofar as the tactical result is concerned (i.e.terrorists killed, infra destroyed, PA soldiers punished). However, the latest operation is strategic in nature due to political direction and effect.

Previous raids were Army operation, while this operation is a punishment delivered by the Republic and her citizens.

Btw can we consider General Vinod Bhatia's comments as Army's confirmation?

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 06 Oct 2016 15:10

Dates of the previous surgical raids:

September 1, 2011
July 28, 2013
January 14, 2014

We can cross check against public reports from the time.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 06 Oct 2016 15:58

For archives - a compendium of Cross-LoC Raids:

https://shashankjoshi.wordpress.com/201 ... f-control/

....

So we have cross-LoC raids alleged in:

May 1998
Summer 1999
January 2000
March 2000
September 2003
June 2008
August 2011
January 2013
August 2013
Only the first of these – May 1998 – is acknowledged by Pakistan officially, but others are acknowledged by Indian officials, albeit anonymously, despite the fact they they represent clear instances of torture (January 2000) or desecration of bodies (June 2008 and August 2011).

...

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 08 Oct 2016 02:44

Aditya G wrote:
Prem wrote:
Sub tactical or not it is now quite clear that we have a history of trans LoC ops. Perhaps in time we will get to hear detailed accounts by army men involved.

General bakshi makes a good point on how #surgical strikes are of the finest special ops in the world ever.

But I really found his classification of 2000-2003 period interesting. He suggest that in this time our artillery fire assaults became too much for pakis to handle. Even Bofors 155 mm may have been used. Do we have any good accounts from that period?

Digging up some stories.

From 2009 - sadly all of this happened pre DigiCam era so we do not have quality photos and video. It would have been quite a sight to watch Bofors pounding Pak Army.

Kargil, July 08: The Bofors gun continues to give India "an edge" over the adversary on the Line of Control (LoC) and has helped the country to win "artillery duels" till the time the ceasefire came into effect in 2003, Indian Army officers say.

"With a range of over 35 kilo metres in the high-altitude terrain, the gun helped us to win artillery duels with Pakistani Army on the LoC till the 2003 ceasefire between the two countries. During that period, after unprovoked shelling by them, we would retaliate with our Bofors howitzers and quietened them up," a senior artillery officer from the Kargil-based 'Forever in Operations' Division told PTI here.

The FH77 Bofors guns, he said, were better than the medium artillery guns available with the Pakistani Army.

"Superiority of our gun, which can fire three rounds in 12 seconds, has been proved during the 1999 war and they also know that their guns are of no match to our medium guns. After Kargil, the guns proved their mettle during Operation Parakram in 2001 also where they would fire 80-90 rounds every day causing immense damage to enemy posts and morale," the officers added.

During the Kargil war, the gun was extensively used by the Army to dislodge Pakistani Army regulars and militants from Indian peaks after they had intruded into Indian territory in the winters when both the sides vacated their respective posts at high altitude areas.

The guns today, the officers said, have been deployed at altitudes ranging between 10-13,000 feet and were helping the Indian troops to achieve "total dominance" over the adversary in the region.

"With the Bofors guns now being deployed at such high altitudes and its extended range here, we can strike deep with in the enemy territory. The Bofors can easily take on targets in Pakistan occupied Kashmir (PoK) towns such as Skardu and others," they said.

Asked about the deployment of the guns at such high altitudes, the officers said that the auxiliary power unit in the Bofors guns made it easy for reaching such heights.

"The guns have a Mercedes Benz engine in them and they are able to move short distances on their own. This capability helped us during the war also as guns would move from their location after firing a salvo to other positions in order to avoid enemy counter fire," they said.

I get the feeling that we have been in cribbing mode - not realizing the extent of the punishment we have delivered to the other side.

Karan M · Post by **Karan M** » 08 Oct 2016 02:53

The extent of punishment needs to be upped to a quantum that TSP is deterred.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 09 Oct 2016 15:15

Docs pertaining to Operation Ginger (Aug/Sep 2011) - Tran-LoC raid by leaked by The Hindu.

This is one of the operations that was reported by Pakistan to UNMOGIP. So it is well known and ties in well with other news reports from this thread.

Another success for records accomplished by our storied Special Forces.

abhishek_sharma wrote:Operation Ginger: Tit-for-tat across the Line of Control

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 09 Oct 2016 15:36

cross posting

tit for tat ginger op leaked by the Hindu http://www.thehindu.com/news/national/o ... 202758.ece

#how does a dubious news outlet have information or document on a classified army op?? This is the first thing that should be investigated.
If army not to disclose this and was not confirmed by DGMO then why has a news outlet published it?

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 10 Oct 2016 09:07

Leaked by congress perhaps to not appear too weak?

Bibhas · Post by **Bibhas** » 10 Oct 2016 12:00

Attack in Pampore EDI building. Looks like one jawan injured. Operation still going on. http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... r-3074543/

IndraD · Post by **IndraD** » 10 Oct 2016 14:47

Cybaru wrote:Leaked by congress perhaps to not appear too weak?

and how has congress access to such an information ! Are there moles within govt or cong has copied all sort of evidence before fleeing North & South blocks?

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 10 Oct 2016 21:56

The source of op ginger leak should be arrested.

The hindu should have had sense not to print classified materials as is

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 11 Oct 2016 02:44

IndraD wrote:
Cybaru wrote:Leaked by congress perhaps to not appear too weak?
and how has congress access to such an information ! Are there moles within govt or cong has copied all sort of evidence before fleeing North & South blocks?

Weren't they in power back in the day???

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 11 Oct 2016 06:26

Cybaru wrote:
IndraD wrote: and how has congress access to such an information ! Are there moles within govt or cong has copied all sort of evidence before fleeing North & South blocks?
Weren't they in power back in the day???

This gives rise to a few questions
1. Were these documents scooped away by Congress once it became clear that they were on their way out in 2014. How many such documents did they squirrel away in this manner?

2. Did The Hindu gain access to these documents during UPA sarkaar? If yes, it's a mortifying thought as to what other things they had access to.

3. Finally, how much of this classified and sensitive information made its way outside the country-especially to PRC and TSP?

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 19 Oct 2016 01:01

15 platoons of SSG deployed along LoC with French Milans and "LARCs"

from Musa, Zarrar and Bilal coys.

Shows the penetration of our intel across the LoC

Question: what are the battalions and organisation of the SSG?

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 19 Oct 2016 01:22

http://m.thehindu.com/news/national/pak ... 232959.ece

Pakistani troops resorted to unprovoked shelling and firing on Indian positions along the Line of Control (LoC) in Jammu’s Rajouri district on Tuesday.

A Defence spokesman said the ceasefire violation by Pakistan started around 8:30 p.m. on Monday evening and continued till 1:30 pm on Tuesday.

The troops reportedly fired 82 mm mortar bombs, used small and automatic weapons on Indian posts in Laam Battalion area in Naushera.

A spokesman of the Indian Army's Northern Command tweeted: "Ceasefire violations by Pakistan in Naushera Sector on 17-18 October was strongly retaliated."

On Sunday, a soldier was killed in a sniper fire from the Pakistani side in the district.

Ceasefire violations so far in this month

October 16: Pakistan violated the ceasefire twice along the LoC in Naushera and Rajouri sectors during which one jawan was martyred.

October 8: Pakistan fired at forward Indian posts along Mendhar-Krishnagati sector in Poonch district, resulting in injuries to a jawan.

October 5: Pakistan volated the ceasefire thrice and resorted to heavy firing and mortar shelling, targeting several Indian posts and civilian areas in three sectors of Poonch and Rajouri districts.

October 4: Ten forward areas were targeted with mortar shells in four areas of Jammu, Poonch and Rajouri districts.

They shelled with mortar bombs and opened fire from small and automatic weapons in Jhangar, Kalsian, Makri in Noushera sector of Rajouri district and Gigriyal, Platan, Damanu, Channi and Palanwala areas of Pallanwala sector of Jammu district and Balnoi, Krishnagati in Poonch district.

October 3: Pakistan violated the ceasefire four times and restored to heavy firing and mortar shelling in Saujian, Shahpur-Kerni, Mandi and KG sectors in Poonch district.

October 2: Pakistan troops resorted to firing and shelling along the LoC in forward areas in Pallanwala belt of Jammu district.

October 1: Indian posts and civilian areas were shelled with mortar bombs.

(With inputs from PTI)

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 19 Oct 2016 01:29

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... l-3086840/

Sealing the border: After strikes, walking the Line of Control

New Delhi is rolling out a plan to hermetically seal its borders with Pakistan — a dramatic expansion of technology on existing fencing on the 3,323-km land border and 740-km LoC for an integrated system that links drones, sensors, radars and cameras.

Written by Praveen Swami | New Delhi | Updated: October 18, 2016 11:41 am

Late one evening in the winter of 1987, as his minibus pulled into the Kupwara bus stand after a bone-rattling ride from Sopore, Syed Bashir Ahmad decided he wanted a new life. His passengers that day included a gaggle of Jammu and Kashmir Liberation Front recruits, among the first wave headed for training at Inter-Services Intelligence-run camps in Pakistan. Ahmad decided to go along. That evening, he began the short hike across the Line of Control (LoC) towards Dudhnial, past India’s last military outpost, Gulab — there wasn’t a soldier in sight.

Almost three decades later, New Delhi is rolling out a plan to hermetically seal its borders with Pakistan — a dramatic expansion of technology on existing fencing on the 3,323-km land border and 740-km LoC for an integrated system that links drones, sensors, radars and cameras. The goal: Reduce the odds that anyone like Ahmad — he is out on bail after being arrested on his return in 2012 — would have of crossing over to zero.

Led by retired bureaucrat Madhukar Gupta, the classified report of a committee that recommended the reforms calls the fence ‘a permanent strategic asset’ after the terrorist attacks in Gurdaspur and Pathankot, followed by Uri, as well as a surge in infiltration in Kashmir — around 150 terrorists this year, up from 100 last year and upwards of 1,500 before the 2003 ceasefire allowed India to start building up its fence at the LoC.

Experts, though, are sceptical if India’s wall will work. “Nowhere in the world has a wall ended terrorism. Even worse, they often induce false complacency, and suck resources from more important tasks,” says a border security official.

From the dawn of modern warfare, vulnerable states have relied on walls to beat off predatory armies — with mixed results. China’s Great Wall held off barbarian marauders, until Genghis Khan’s highly mobile horse-borne forces breached it in the 13th century. The battlements that guarded Constantinople could not protect it from Mehmet II’s artillery and engineers in 1453. France’s supposedly-impregnable Maginot Line was side-stepped by Nazi mechanised forces within days.

India’s wall had its genesis in the late 1980s, as security forces in Punjab struggled to fence off routes supplying Khalistan terrorists with weapons and cadre. The end of that insurgency in 1992 was attributed, in part, to the fence, leading to the adoption of the model in Rajasthan and Gujarat. In the late-1990s, the Border Security Force (BSF) pushed forward the fence along the International Border in Jammu, often engaging in construction under direct fire, using metal plates as shields.

It wasn’t until 2003, though, when the unsigned ceasefire went into force, that fencing could be undertaken on the LoC. The immediate results of the three-tier fencing were dramatic, with infiltration tapering off. In 2002, Intelligence Bureau figures show, over half of all infiltrating terrorists made it across the LoC. In 2010, 52 of 247 attempts were estimated to be successful; in 2012, 97 of 277; and, in 2014, 65 of 209. These numbers have justified the almost Sisyphean task of maintaining the fence: three-quarters of stretches along the LoC have to be rebuilt after each winter because of avalanches and landslides.

But is reduced infiltration a result of the fence — or a consequence of Pakistan turning off the terror tap because of international pressure? Army studies show it takes terrorists about eight minutes to cut a passage through the fence, suggesting determined adversaries can get through far easier than imagined, particularly under covering fire. This year, infiltration has gone up again, in large part because cross-border firing has made Indian defences vulnerable.

Even the United States’ state-of-the-art anti-immigrant fence with Mexico, experts point out, remains surprisingly permeable. In a recent paper, scholar Pia Orrenius noted that “when one site has been chosen for a crackdown, migrants have responded by crossing elsewhere”. US officials have pointed to a plunge in the number of illegal migrants caught on the southern border — where over 700 of the 2,000 miles are fenced off — from over 1.6 million in 2000 to around 400,000 in 2014. But a single kilometre of that fence cost up to $6 million to build and $6.5 billion to operate over 20 years.

Experts say funding for capital-intensive projects drains resources from less visible counter-terrorism investments. In recent years, most Indian states have seen severe cuts in police budgets, after the central government scrapped support for some modernisation programmes introduced after 26/11. In border states like Punjab, police have had to call off night patrols, because of shortages of funds for fuel and vehicle maintenance. More than 200 bullet-proof vehicles whose engines were destroyed by the Kashmir floods are yet to be replaced.
Then again, no one in government is quite sure just how effective the new border move will be. “Each barrier leads terrorists to invent a work-around, there is no such thing as a silver bullet,” says a government official.
The world’s other walls
To keep immigrants out, to beat back terrorists, to hold back insurgents: 34 fortified boundaries have been built since 1990, and many European countries have plans on the anvil now.

US-Mexico | 3,360 km (under construction)

* Intended to block the flow of immigrants from Mexico to the United States, the fence has become a major election issue, with Republican candidate Donald Trump vowing to make Mexico pay for its construction. Now spanning 930 km, the barriers focus on areas where immigrants most often passed into the US, using a mix of air surveillance, sensors, cameras and on-ground interdiction. The barriers have seen a sharp drop in the numbers of illegal immigrants arrested, which authorities claim as evidence of their success.

Western Sahara Berm | 2,700 km

* The Berm, or sand wall, runs through the Western Sahara and southeastern Morocco, separating the Moroccan-controlled southern provinces and the Polisario-controlled Sahrawi Arab Democratic Republic. Its purpose was to keep out Polisario insurgents from Moroccan-controlled territory. The Berm consists of sand and stone walls about 3 metres high, with cobra-wire fences throughout. There are guardposts and bunkers every few kilometres, while artillery posts and airfields line the Moroccan-controlled side.

Iran-Pakistan | 700 km

* Intended as a counter-narcotics and counter-terrorism barrier, the Iran-Pakistan fence is a 100 cm thick, 3-m-high concrete wall, fortified with steel rods, running the length of the frontier from Taftan to Mand. The project includes large earth and stone embankments as well as deep ditches to deter illegal crossings and drug smuggling into Iran. The border region is dotted with police observation towers and fortress-style garrisons for troops. Baloch nationalists have opposed the fence, saying it will further divide the ethnic group, who live on both sides of the border.

Israel-Gaza | 60 km

* Touted as the most sophisticated counter-terrorism fence in the world, the Israel-Gaza barrier was built in 1994—and again in 2000, after being demolished by Palestinians—in response to suicide attacks and arms smuggling by terrorist groups. The fence uses physical means, as well as an array of electronic surveillance means, to restrict the movement of would-be attackers and weapons. However, terrorists responded to its construction by using rockets and mortar, forcing the Israeli army to intervene in Gaza—the outcome the fence was meant to avoid. Terrorists also burrowed tunnels under the fence, which Israel is now seeking to counter by building underground walls.

sum · Post by **sum** » 19 Oct 2016 05:51

^^ Not sure what the point of this article is...That dont fence the border since it doesnt matter anyways?

Paul · Post by **Paul** » 19 Oct 2016 07:21

What are LARCs?

Sanju · Post by **Sanju** » 19 Oct 2016 23:36

Paul wrote:What are LARCs?

It is LRAC, reusable Rocket Launchers.

Sanju · Post by **Sanju** » 20 Oct 2016 01:12

sum wrote:^^ Not sure what the point of this article is...That dont fence the border since it doesnt matter anyways?

That article like many previously from Praveen Swami is a poisonous pill couched in a tasty dish.

These numbers have justified the almost Sisyphean task of maintaining the fence: three-quarters of stretches along the LoC have to be rebuilt after each winter because of avalanches and landslides.

a) Sisphyean - comes from Sisyphus

Through the classical influence on modern culture, tasks that are both laborious and futile are therefore described as Sisyphean

The task is laborious (so is Security), but futile?

In the previous sentence Mr. Swami writes about the "successful" infiltration attempts. Whereas he should be referring to the failed attempts. From who's point is Mr. Swami writing this? See below:

1. 2010 - 52/247 infiltration attempts "succeeded". In, other words 192/247 failed! That is an astounding 77.73%
2. 2012 - 97/277 infiltration attempts "succeeded". In, other words 180/277 failed! 64.98%
3. 2014 - 65/209 infiltration attempts "succeeded". In, other words 144/209 failed! 68.89%

Is it futile? In his own words, Mr. Swami has written,

"In 2002, Intelligence Bureau figures show, over half of all infiltrating terrorists made it across the LoC."

The fence is a success as only 22.37% infiltration "succeeded" in 2010, 35.02% in 2012 and 31.11% in 2014. These are all much below "over half" that Mr.Swami has written took place in 2002.

b)

three-quarters of stretches along the LoC

We read this as as three-quarters of the LOC. Whereas, the key word here is "stretches". The "stretches" in one case maybe 1 metre and in another maybe 200 metres. It is not clarified here. And how many such "stretches" are there Mr. Swami?

"Experts, though, are sceptical if India’s wall will work. “Nowhere in the world has a wall ended terrorism. Even worse, they often induce false complacency, and suck resources from more important tasks,” says a border security official."

c) Starts with "Experts" and then refers to an unnamed "border security official"

d) Who has said that it will end terrorism, this is a deterrent.

e) Mr. Swami please Provide proof that it induces "false complacency" and "suck resources from important tasks." This is Goebbelsian level propagandu.

Throw such statements out and then put the onus of proof on the other side, to back-up, what is inherently pulled out of the writer's musharaff.

But is reduced infiltration a result of the fence — or a consequence of Pakistan turning off the terror tap because of international pressure? Army studies show it takes terrorists about eight minutes to cut a passage through the fence, suggesting determined adversaries can get through far easier than imagined, particularly under covering fire.

f) Ask a rhetoric question with another rhetoric question as the answer - "result of the fence" vs Pakistan the plumber fixing the "terror tap".

g) So if a terrorist takes 8 minutes longer to get into Indian territory then he has
- 8 minutes less to set-up an ambush
- 8 minutes less to be in our territory
This gives the Indian Security Forces 8 minutes more to send the terrorist to meet his maker. Again here the fence is a deterrent.

Then Mr.Swami goes on about the efforts of the US, Israel, Iran etc. The Wall of China was made as the solution, our fence is part of the solution and not the solution in itself. Red Herring et al.

Solution for an Indian problem does not lie in the US or in Gaza, it lies with us Indians and needs to be tackled as such.

Unless and until I hear from the IA that the fence is useless, I will believe in its efficacy as the numbers above have shown.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 20 Oct 2016 03:01

Praveen Swami is one of a kind anti-everything reporter. in his own mind Everybody is an idiot, everything is wrong and everybody just shut up and agree to my article.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 20 Oct 2016 03:05

Aditya G wrote:

15 platoons of SSG deployed along LoC with French Milans and "LARCs" from Musa, Zarrar and Bilal coys.

Shows the penetration of our intel across the LoC

Question: what are the battalions and organisation of the SSG?

Reminds me of the song from Bajirao Mastan sung after the Nizam gets surprised.

Bheeshma · Post by **Bheeshma** » 20 Oct 2016 03:16

Can we strike at the SSG and take them out? UAV or glide bombs?

salaam · Post by **salaam** » 20 Oct 2016 03:26

Aditya G wrote:15 platoons of SSG deployed along LoC with French Milans and "LARCs" from Musa, Zarrar and Bilal coys.

Shows the penetration of our intel across the LoC

Question: what are the battalions and organisation of the SSG?

So SSG are doing holding formations? Wonder how many ghost infantry battalions are there in PA and how much money is being skimmed.

The SSG is a regiment-sized group, and is headquartered at Tarbela Cantonment. It is headed by a major-general and divided into eight battalions. Each battalion consists of 700 men in four companies, with each company split into platoons and then into 10-man teams. Each battalion is commanded by a lieutenant colonel.

5600 total declared strength.

Bheeshma wrote:Can we strike at the SSG and take them out? UAV or glide bombs?

India can take out / disband the whole PA, but that's tantamount to declaring war. If Pak doesn't mend it's ways (which it won't) war will come either in late 2018 or in Modi's second term.

Tublai Khan · Post by **Tublai Khan** » 20 Oct 2016 10:48

It's as if Swami has a vested interest in highlighting the failure of the Indian Army in stopping infiltration.Was Swami an infiltrator himself? Or was he himself the famous 'Grandma'

?

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 20 Oct 2016 13:03

Regarding SSG, on organisation perspective they are not only a regiment but also a formation/command by itself. This is one area where SFs there have an edge over para sf who neither have their own regiment nor command.

Btw there is no concept of airborne in PA.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 21 Oct 2016 01:28

Video. Thermal images of infiltrators being stopped i.e. killed by BSF

https://twitter.com/TimesNow/status/789016149153415168

20 Oct 2016

Bheeshma · Post by **Bheeshma** » 21 Oct 2016 01:42

Nice..but I was hoping we have not stopped taking them out inside PoK.

khan · Post by **khan** » 21 Oct 2016 09:22

By themselves, fences don't make much sense.

But if you have "offensive defense" capability as demonstrated by surgical strikes, they can make sense in many ways, one e.g. would be use the fences as an indicator of infiltration and to kill 10 Pakis every time the fence shows signs of being breached.

Before you know it, Pakistan will be helping India maintain the fence

Good fences do make good neighbors.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 21 Oct 2016 12:43

First time I've red details about this.Is it accurate? WE know about Sumdurong Chu though and Gen. Sunderji's guts.

India decisively won the 1967 Indo-China War :: Killed 340 Chinese Soldiers
Thursday, October 20, 2016
By: Darshil Patel - Defence News

Yes, we all know that India faced a humiliating defeat in the 1962 War with China. The primary reason for that was the Indian Army was partially not organised and supply lines were extremely weak. China took full advantage of India's weak points and re-enforced its troops and marched nearly 80kms into India without resistence.

But things were quite different in the 1967 Indo-China War. The Indian Army learnt quickly from its mistakes and in less than 5 years took its revenge and gave a bloody nose to the Chinese when they invaded the state of Sikkim. The Indian Army was far more efficient and lethal in killing every Chinese soldier that tried to invade Sikkim.

Here is a short brief of what happened in 1967 ::

The Sino-Indian War of 1967, also known as the Nathu La and Cho La incidents, (1 – 10 October 1967) were military conflicts between India and China in the Himalayan Kingdom of Sikkim, then an Indian protectorate. The Chinese People's Liberation Army infiltrated parts of Sikkim on 1 October 1967, but was repulsed by the Indian Army by 10 October.

- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
During the Cho La and Nathu La incidents, Indian losses were 88 killed in action and 163 wounded, while Chinese casualties were 340 killed in action and 450 wounded.
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - -

The end of the conflicts saw a complete Chinese military withdrawal from Sikkim after being defeated by Indian forces hands down.

Sikkim became an integral part of Indian in 1975, which was not recognised by China. In 2003, China recognised Sikkim as an Indian state, on condition that India accept that the Tibet Autonomous Region was a part of China, even though India had already done so back in 1953. This mutual agreement led to a thaw in Sino-Indian relations.

Since 1967, China has dared not entered India and waged a war. It might have a fat military budget compared to India but what ultimately matters is the courage in the man behind the machine.

This article has been written by Darshil Patel exclusively for www.DefenceNews.in

The Sumdorong Chu Incident: a strong Indian stand
Claude Arpi | Date:04 May
http://www.indiandefencereview.com/the- ... ian-stand/

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 21 Oct 2016 13:07

^ let's not forget operation falcon/trident in 1986 where we achieved decisive upper hand over PLA

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 22 Oct 2016 00:27

Wonder if Pakis are asking for proof .... coz BSF is more than happy to release video

This is a video from Jan 2016, again via Times Now:

https://twitter.com/TimesNow/status/684640793047388161

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 23 Oct 2016 15:28

Why does Pakistan infiltrate through heavily defended IB? What is the strategy behind this idiocy?

http://www.dnaindia.com/india/report-pr ... sf-2266684

Warning that the 24-hour long lull on the border can take 'any turn any time', the BSF on Sunday said that it was fully prepared to deal with any eventuality and any border build-up by the Pakistani side on the International Border in Jammu and Kashmir.

"Yes, there is lull on the IB for the past 24 hours.We have no doubt that this peace can take any turn any time and we are fully prepared.

"If they try to do anything they will be given a befitting reply. We are fully prepared for that", Additional Director General (ADG) BSF Western Command, Arun Kumar told reporters on the sidelines of a wreath laying ceremony here.

In the wake of reports of a border build-up by Pakistani troops across the IB, Kumar said BSF has the information and it was fully prepared to deal with any eventuality.

"I think we are having the information, we are ready for any eventuality and if they are building up we are ready for it", he said.

The BSF today paid rich tributes to Gurnam Singh, who succumbed to injures at a hospital in Jammu after he was injured in a sniping incident on the International Border in Kathua sector on Friday.

The BSF said the infiltration attempt, which was foiled by Gurnman and his other colleagues, had the support of the Pakistan Rangers.

"Absolutely that is on record and we have seen though our surveillance equipment as how they (Pakistan rangers) have given protection fire to get the people infiltrated into our border and how our men repulsed that", Kumar said.

To a question on the BSF claim of having gunned down seven Pakistani rangers and a terrorist in retaliatory fire, the ADG said, "See as far as the number of people killed (are concerned) there we cannot be fully sure, but as we have a close border and we have equipment with which we can see on the other side we have seen several people being hit and falling".

He said the Pakistan side has been given a befitting reply and if they dare to target any BSF jawan they will have to pay a heavy price for that.

On the Line of Control, Kumar said there have been continuous incidents of ceasefire violations and BSF under the able guidance of the army are repulsing such incidents.

"But this was for the first incident after the Uri attack, that they tried to infiltrate through the international boundary and we gave them a befitting reply", he said.

He said that on the intervening night of October 19 and 20, Pakistan tried to push in some terrorists using fire power and the same was given a befitting reply by the alert BSF jawans led by Gurnam Singh because of which the infiltration bid was foiled and one terrorist was killed.

"The next day sniping was done from the Pakistani side on the same place where Gurnam Singh was standing and he was targeted and the bullet hit him in the head, we wanted to evacuate him, but because of heavy fire we faced some problems.

"We retaliated and shifted him to GMC and every possible treatment was given to him and air ambulance was also kept ready to shift him, but sadly we lost him during the night", Kumar said.

He said that Gurnam has made a supreme sacrifice for the nation and the BSF and the entire nation was proud of him.

"The BSF was planning to shift him to Delhi and Air ambulance was kept ready for that, but Gurnam breathed his last night," he said.

Gurnam's family had yesterday demanded that he be shifted to a better hospital.