Army strikes terror camps in PoK

[Primus]

Let me tell you a true story. Mid Feb 2016. I had got married in India a day or two before the last Parampore incident. My massaji a 80 year old gent American citizen said ' 1,2 terrorists hain air puri fauj lagi huyi hai'. I just gave it to him. 'Aur Kya Karen uncle. Aap chale Jao, hamare soil pe yeh log hain.....'. And more. I walked out of the house and couldn't bear to come back for an hour. The only person who sympathised with me to an extent was my 'foreign' wife. My mom and I didn't speak for a week. Dad was also not pleased. Long story short Massaji was clueless. But on BRF we have better standards. because we have chosen to be here. We must be thoughtful and thorough not lazy.

One of the most frustrating things I've faced in my own little War on Ignorance is the complete apathy and cluelessness displayed by some of my own near and dear. Over the past 25 yrs or so I've tried to educate them about Pakistan and the general doctrine of Islamic jihad and it seems to fall on deaf ears. The problem I think is that it is easier and less traumatic for people to continue believing in the tooth-fairy and Santa Claus, the reality is too uncomfortable and destroys a life-time of belief.

My room-mate and close buddy from college days has lived in Canada since we graduated. He would never accept my thoughts on Jihad or on Pakistan's role in terrorist acts within India. Then 9/11 happened and all the planes en-route to the US were diverted to Newfoundland. He called me that day and went on about how he had been wrong all the time and that indeed Jihad exists and Islamic extremists are a reality.

It is unfortunate that sometimes it takes a tragedy of epic proportions for many people to wake up and smell the coffee.

[Yagnasri]

I have attended an RW training/meeting a few days back, and I was asked to talk about Uri attacks. One of the sentences I used was P represents an existential threat to our nation, and the sole purpose of creation of P is Ghazwa e Hind. The senior RW leader who is well knowledged etc. and a senior person strongly disputed me saying that P will not present such a threat. I mean a mad dog nation with almost 300 nukes is not an Existential threat to us?

Vijayanagara Empire lost one major war after winning many for almost three centuries and it never recovered and now not even remembered in India. Are we going to be like that? Image pakis managed to kill ten large cities in India and see what happens after that. Most of the west will be here to "take care of us" next day that is if China does not invade us to take Kashmir and NE areas and we will never recover.

I am not fear mongering here. But Pakis are a serious threat as they are a nation with a death wish and a large number of nukes.

[IndraD]

@Yagnasri Multiple nukes going off in vicinity of China will make China hell as well. Half of their population will be affected atleast. It is interest of China that nukes are not used in Indian subcontinent. Radiation fall out can spread rapidly and unpredictably.

[Christopher Sidor]

Wonder ,How is new Mountain Strike Corp coming up or It is already in POK to warm up this winter .

It was scrapped the day BJP landed in power just like MMRCA was scrapped from 128 to just 2 squadrons.

[Aditya_V]

Yagnasri- You are correct Pakis are nothing but Ghori's, Ghazni's and Timor, we need to break them up and severe affect on Pakjab for us to grow as a nation.

[IndraD]

this is a good read on effects of N war between India vs Pk and here only 100 N warheads of Hiroshima is considered , hence it is in interest of Cheena certainly that it does not happen in their backyard :

1 to 5 million tons of smoke quickly rise 50 km above cloud level into the stratosphere
The smoke spreads around the world, forming a stratospheric smoke layer that blocks sunlight from reaching the surface of Earth
Within 10 days following the explosions, temperatures in the Northern Hemisphere would become colder than those experienced during the pre-industrial Little Ice Age
These nuclear war-induced effects on temperature would be twice as large as those which followed the largest volcanic eruption in the last 500 years, in 1816, which caused “The Year Without Summer”
This cold weather would also cause a 10% decline in average global rainfall and a large reduction in the Asian summer monsoon.
25-40% of the protective ozone layer would be destroyed at the mid-latitudes, and 50-70% would be destroyed at northern high latitudes. Massive increases of harmful UV light would result, with significantly negative effects on human, animal and plant life.
These changes in global climate would cause significantly shortened growing seasons in the Northern Hemisphere for at least years. It would be too cold to grow wheat in most of Canada.
World grain stocks, which already are at historically low levels, would be completely depleted. Grain exporting nations would likely cease exports in order to meet their own food needs.
Some medical experts predict that ensuing food shortages would cause hundreds of millions of already hungry people, who now depend upon food imports, to starve to death during the years following the nuclear conflict.

http://www.nucleardarkness.org/warconse ... nsofsmoke/

[Yagnasri]

Pakis do not care if that all happen as they all with be having their 72 (male pakis that are). But what about the rest of the world who does not want to die. The Paki nation is a nation on a death wish. Many pakis may not have such a wish, but some significant number of them does have it. As so far nukes are not used on us or in the US we have to presume that those crazys do not have to nukes yet with YET being the operative world. As long as Whiskey generals have nuclear, it is ok, but this is an only temporary condition.

[prasannasimha]

^ And Bharkha Dutt a few days before was televised practically showing the route across the river > Probably a big 5th columnist. Must be kept on watch

[Lalmohan]

i think that most indian journalists are so keen on satyameva jayate (not saying barkha here) that they want to report anything and everything they can find... and then TRP is all about shock n awe factor so the more exciting the news becomes the more they broadcast
hysteria sells
thats why US TV is full of black men running around posing threats to little white children

[Karthik S]

Pakis do not care if that all happen as they all with be having their 72 (male pakis that are). But what about the rest of the world who does not want to die. The Paki nation is a nation on a death wish. Many pakis may not have such a wish, but some significant number of them does have it. As so far nukes are not used on us or in the US we have to presume that those crazys do not have to nukes yet with YET being the operative world. As long as Whiskey generals have nuclear, it is ok, but this is an only temporary condition.

As long as nukes are in the hands of gernails who are more interested in $ than actually fighting, we can be reasonably sure that they wont use nukes. A man who wishes to earn $ to live a happy life will not be willing to die.

[Denis]

Wonder ,How is new Mountain Strike Corp coming up or It is already in POK to warm up this winter .

It was scrapped the day BJP landed in power just like MMRCA was scrapped from 128 to just 2 squadrons.

Is this your considered opinion? Because it certainly is not a fact.

[Rahul M]

do not feed the troll.

[fanne]

Boss how many times?

[ShauryaT]

@Yagnasri Multiple nukes going off in vicinity of China will make China hell as well. Half of their population will be affected atleast. It is interest of China that nukes are not used in Indian subcontinent. Radiation fall out can spread rapidly and unpredictably.

Hello: Vicinity of China? China is at least 1000 miles away.

[Karan M]

Can the inexpensive 'amazon' like delivery drones be used to custom deliver & drop incendiary grenades on terrorist camps without the need for our men to personally do this.
And it can be used to guarantee same day Prime delivery of 72v

deliver in dead of windless night and scoot. why is it still far from reality?

(might sound like a kiddish fantasy which will attract the brf mighty to start dissing), but again why can this not be done?

they'll do it to indian civilian targets too.
aditya, its in our best interests to make the anti-terror ops as conventional as possible, so we win on our (a)symmetrical terms.
which is why the present cross border raid was/is brilliant. it brings home the point that to TSP and those conditioned by its n-propaganda (both our clueless media anal-ysts and those abroad) that india need not fight the proxy war on TSPs terms and can use its advantages to the max extent possible.

even if we ever do what you suggest (and the idea has merit), it should never be public until and unless we can wargame a response to that, manifold. your idea is most likely going to be an issue for us - because the TSP jihadis are probably attempting to do what you pointed out, even as if we speak. its definitely a serious threat for us.

in fact, forget dissing and kiddish fantasy, you have raised a scary poin - its all about load. if the TSP side gets access to cheap COTS drones able to carry a hand grenade sized object into crowds, very little prevents them from doing this - we cant put drone nets in every place. our only answer is to inflict unmentionable pain on the other side, so they don't even think of doing this.

[Karan M]

in fact, surgical strikes need to continue and a conventional jhapad to tsp may be in the works. the urgency for 2nd line MMRCA, S-400, $50Bn of contracts signed since 2014 (Parrikar, ET) all point to this.

[IndraD]

Hello: Vicinity of China? China is at least 1000 miles away.

in context of radiation fall out these are not great distances . I wrote yesterday when Cernobyl exploded same radiation was detected within 3 days in Toronto. And we are talking of high amount of radiation here.

[Bheeshma]

It won't be vicinity it will be on china. India treats paki nukes as chinese. Period.

[Rakesh]

Check this out...

Here's How Many 'Super Nukes' American Scientists Thought It Would Take To Destroy The World In 1945
http://www.businessinsider.com/heres-ho ... ld-2014-12

[ssundar]

If the effects of a 100 nukes is a global disaster, then it is highly UNlikely that the sugar daddies of Pakiland are expecting this as a possible scenario. Based on what we know about pre-Modi India, one warning shot by Pakiland in Bhuj or the Thar desert is enough to bring the entire world scurrying down to prevent further escalation. It is also unlikely that a PM such as Vajpayee or MMS would go MAD in such a scenario. India would have restrained herself to conventional retaliation. This may even be true if Pak does that warning shot on an advancing Indian strike column.

We have to acknowledge that THIS would have been true of any PM who occupied the chair between Rajiv Gandhi and Modi.

With this new leadership, tectonic plates have shifted.

[SBajwa]

Pre-emptive strikes on pakistani top leadership, top general, top officers, along with suspected nuke locations.

[Suresh S]

Apke muhn me ghee sakar Bajwa sahab. My thoughts exactly but after we are ready in a few yrs. I do not care much about their planes , ships and ballistic missiles , just get me the nuclear war heads, that will do.

[Akshay Kapoor]

in fact, surgical strikes need to continue and a conventional jhapad to tsp may be in the works. the urgency for 2nd line MMRCA, S-400, $50Bn of contracts signed since 2014 (Parrikar, ET) all point to this.

Which 50 billion of contracts ? What do they comprise of ?

[Karan M]

parrikar recently mentioned this

http://www.businesstoday.in/current/eco ... 38412.html

Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar said on Wednesday he expects another Rs 50,000-60,000 crore worth of defence contracts to be signed during the remaining quarters of the financial year, taking the total orders to Rs three trillion since he took charge two years ago.

"During the past 23 months that I have been in charge, we have signed contracts worth Rs 2.2 trillion. Recently, we signed a letter of intent with a government-run shipyard for about Rs 32,000 crore, taking the total orders to Rs 2.5 trillion."

"Over the next six months, I hope to sign another Rs 50,000-60,000 crore worth of contracts, taking the total 3 trillion," the minister told reporters on the sidelines of an industry exhibition on technology and material sciences in Navi Mumbai.

just goes to show how much remains and what a boondoggle UPA was. we have huge basic needs pending in every service.

[Karan M]

at current exchange rates $45 Billion..

[Akshay Kapoor]

at current exchange rates $45 Billion..

It would be interesting to know which are the major orders ? Yes UPA regime was disastrous.

[nandakumar]

at current exchange rates $45 Billion..

More like 8 to 10 billion dollars.

[Suresh S]

That is nandakumar madrassa math. karan is right

[shiv]

Surgical strike row: We, the self-loathing Indians: Nobody lets India down more than Indians. The distorted discourse following the Uri attacks by Pakistan and the riposte from India is just one more example of this behaviour.

https://twitter.com/chitraSD/status/786962795153723392

quote:

[Karan M]

at current exchange rates $45 Billion..

More like 8 to 10 billion dollars.

Kumar bhai - came to $44.9 Bn

[Karan M]

at current exchange rates $45 Billion..

It would be interesting to know which are the major orders ? Yes UPA regime was disastrous.

We can datamine the DAC/CCS orders but it just shows how expensive mil acquisitions are.. there is a focus on getting major acquisitions underway.
http://defenceaviationpost.com/acquisit ... tells-dac/

At DAC Meet: MoD’s Nod To Defence Acquisition Proposals For Over Rs 31,000 crore

Contracts for major acquisition schemes for the Indian Armed Forces are expected to be signed in the next few months, with the defence ministry giving its approval to over Rs 31,000 crore of capital acquisition schemes for the defence sector.

The progress of a host of major capital acquisition proposals for the current financial year (2016-17) was reviewed by the apex body of the ministry of defence –the Defence Acquisition Council (DAC) that met on August 18.

The DAC is headed by the Defence Minister and comprises officials from tri-services and officials from defence ministry. DAC is also the top body which gives nod for acquisitions and other modernization approvals.

Sources in the know said that the DAC was informed that since May 2016, as many as 10 acquisition schemes worth about Rs 16,000 crore have been approved by the government including six at the level of the Cabinet Committee on Securities (CCS).

“In addition, four major acquisitions worth Rs 15,000 crore have been cleared by the defence ministry and have been forwarded for the consideration of the CCS,” they added. Put together, it was informed that over Rs 31,000 crore worth of major acquisitions have either been contracted or are at an advanced stage.

While details of all these multi-crore acquisitions were not immediately known, sources said they could include the ultralight artillery guns, Pinaka, Tracked SP Gun, Dhanush Guns (all Artillery programs of the Indian Army). The Akash Air Defence systems for the Indian Air Force could also be part of the approval process.

It may be noted here that all proposals over Rs 1000 crore go for approval to the Cabinet Committee on Security as only after the latter’s approval that a contract can be signed.

The DAC at its meeting has also requested the services and ministry of defence to expedite process for these acquisitions. Contracts for all of these acquisition schemes are likely to be inked before the first half of the fiscal is over or by end of September 2016.

Above adds up to $4-5Bn.

[Karan M]

The pending list is substantial too. However, it does show GOI is now emphasizing spending on defense as a priority.
Otherwise MOD would not be clearing these deals since MOF would stall them.

[rkhanna]

The pending list is substantial too. However, it does show GOI is now emphasizing spending on defense as a priority.
Otherwise MOD would not be clearing these deals since MOF would stall them.

Unfortunately the Cynic in me is still begrudging. Rafales, SAMs, Subs are to prepare for a War that may come and 'big ticket items' look good on the CV of the Govt.

Ignoring the "non sexy" bigger priority of Small Arms, Battle Field First Aid, Protection, Optics, Small unit level Drones, etc means we continue to bleed in the battle we currently are fighting.

Everything I had heard and seen with this MoD (and due to professional reason some of it is first hand) tells me that while you are correct on Govts Priority in Def Spending (its not just hogwash) they have a lazer focus on these "big ticket items" and the "smaller details" will get left behind.

[chetak]

I have attended an RW training/meeting a few days back, and I was asked to talk about Uri attacks. One of the sentences I used was P represents an existential threat to our nation, and the sole purpose of creation of P is Ghazwa e Hind. The senior RW leader who is well knowledged etc. and a senior person strongly disputed me saying that P will not present such a threat. I mean a mad dog nation with almost 300 nukes is not an Existential threat to us?

Vijayanagara Empire lost one major war after winning many for almost three centuries and it never recovered and now not even remembered in India. Are we going to be like that? Image pakis managed to kill ten large cities in India and see what happens after that. Most of the west will be here to "take care of us" next day that is if China does not invade us to take Kashmir and NE areas and we will never recover.

I am not fear mongering here. But Pakis are a serious threat as they are a nation with a death wish and a large number of nukes.

some of our denser "leaders" opposed exchange of populations during partition. Some of the islamic types who stayed behind opposed it as well because their leaders reasoned that they needed a core group of islam in India to hollow out our nation from within. The idea of ghazwa e Hind is never far from their minds

The way and the speed with their populations are growing and and the devious way in which our own "secular" constitution being used against us to subvert and stop us is reflected in the absurd positions taken by the islamic " representatives" against the UCC and anything else to thwart us legally.

The congis are with them and so are many others who (wet) dream of power in dilli.

These guys are more than an existential threat because we are under danger from both within and without. That senior RW folks do not understand is because of their smug belief in their narrow world views and therein lies the problem.

[Akshay Kapoor]

The pending list is substantial too. However, it does show GOI is now emphasizing spending on defense as a priority.
Otherwise MOD would not be clearing these deals since MOF would stall them.

I have spent some time searching for contracts signed and still can't find much. I do hope Parikkar's remark is actual contracts signed and also does not inlcude renweals of Ordance contracts with OFB and standard ordnance suppliers - we sign contracts for boots, standard ammo, uniforms, etc all them time from DGOS - DG Ordance Services. The process is still too cumbersome...services project a need, goes through vetting at MOD by cluless babus who often change (in that case snake bites and down the body to starting point...train new babu, explain whole thing again), the goes to DAC (lots of back and forth and finanly approval comes), then goes to MOF, then CCS...its a joke.

Anyway coming back to this thread, when I searched for Parikkar (for contracts signed) all I got is TOI and other articles question him on surgical strikes. Is this some kind of collective insanity a substantial part of the press suffer from ?

[Akshay Kapoor]

Yagnasri whats RW ?

[Murugan]

IndraD » 14 Oct 2016 16:48

@Yagnasri Multiple nukes going off in vicinity of China will make China hell as well. Half of their population will be affected atleast. It is interest of China that nukes are not used in Indian subcontinent. Radiation fall out can spread rapidly and unpredictably.

Can we simulate various possibilities and make a video/presentation and create 'awareness'

[rajpa]

Pakis do not care if that all happen as they all with be having their 72 (male pakis that are). But what about the rest of the world who does not want to die. The Paki nation is a nation on a death wish. Many pakis may not have such a wish, but some significant number of them does have it. As so far nukes are not used on us or in the US we have to presume that those crazys do not have to nukes yet with YET being the operative world. As long as Whiskey generals have nuclear, it is ok, but this is an only temporary condition.

If Pakis are nuked, since they will be vaporised completely without a trace of their bodies, as per the holy Quora User they will not reach jannat. Instead 70 or 80 million of their burnt souls will be tormented forever in hell. So no houris, no 72. It is the worst possible situation for TSP to have a nuke war. They will have a country for Malsis in Hell instead of in Pakistan, Earth.

[nandakumar]

More like 8 to 10 billion dollars.

Kumar bhai - came to $44.9 Bn

Sorry, that was my mistake. I was only looking at the Rs 60-70000 crore additional orders that Parrikar was talking about and not the value of cumulative orders.

[la.khan]

Yagnasri whats RW ?

Maybe, Right Wing? I think Yagnasri was at a RSS shakha or something similar.