Sunni Terrorist Fragments of Unstable Pakistan- November 7, 2016

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 21 Nov 2016 04:49

This concept of 3.5 friends or masters is evolving as we speak.

Personally, I consider deshdrohi indians to be atleast a 0.5 friend of Pakistan - AAP, Congress.
Turkey is a newly inducted friend / master, who has replaced Japan
KSA is also somewhat cool towards Pakistan, and so is Britain and now hopefully Massa.

China is the one constant master.

Back in the day, during the 80s, the colloquial saying was the 3 A's of Pakistan - Allah, Army and Amreeka.
BRF in the 90s and 2000s further evolved that into the 3.5 masters concept.
I think it is time for a further refinement of that situation.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 21 Nov 2016 04:51

WRT the sub mast detected by PN maritime surveillance aircraft in international waters. Some people are claiming that it is an Indian sub.
The masts do look like a U boat. But my question is, why a U-209 Sindhughosh class?
Why not some other sub hain ji?
The Pak-Cheeni exercises are underway, they have only announced the presence of two chines surface ships. Maybe there is a chinese sub there too.
If the Germans gave the engine to the Chinese conventional subs, why not the masts?

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 21 Nov 2016 06:04

SSridhar wrote:
However, the former National Security Adviser also hit out at Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar’s suggestion last week that India’s No First Use (NFU) policy should be reconsidered, adding that the Defence Minister doesn’t have a right to voice “personal opinions” on nuclear policy in public “when that opinion contradicts the official policy of the country,” {which is totally correct. He made that statement at a wrong time too when our PM was about to sign the deal with Japan which fructified after quite a negotiation} the TV channel added.

former National Security Adviser should not make statement in public about DM. THis is a serious job. He should keep it internal

Rishi Verma · Post by **Rishi Verma** » 21 Nov 2016 06:10

This tit for tat mortar firing with the Bakis is to their advantage. They have brain-washed, in-bred, worthless momeens to sacrifice. We have young professional soldiers whose life is worth more than the rats on the other side.

habal · Post by **habal** » 21 Nov 2016 08:20

It is to our advantage, our 155 can reach Lahore and when stationed strategically in poonch/mendhar it can reach rawalpindi.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 21 Nov 2016 08:40

Rishi Verma wrote:This tit for tat mortar firing with the Bakis is to their advantage. They have brain-washed, in-bred, worthless momeens to sacrifice. We have young professional soldiers whose life is worth more than the rats on the other side.

This is exactly the argument used by jihad patrons to improve the morale of suicidal killers. "They far death. We don't because our reward comes from death".

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 21 Nov 2016 09:16

habal wrote:It is to our advantage, our 155 can reach Lahore and when stationed strategically in poonch/mendhar it can reach rawalpindi.

First thing first and let few hundred shells shall rain over Skardu for next Jummah night.

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 21 Nov 2016 09:29

SSridhar wrote:“I am not so sure that it’s any longer within Pakistan’s capacity to stop terrorism”[/b], he said speaking to a television channel on Saturday.

Sounding a warning note on Pakistan’s nuclear capabilities, Mr. Menon, who served as High Commissioner to Pakistan before he was Foreign Secretary and then the NSA, said that the likelihood of tactical nuclear weapons being used against India has increased, with “younger officers in an Army that is increasingly religiously motivated and less and less professional and that has consistently produced rogue officers and staged coups against its own leaders.”

According to a release from TV Today’s “To The Point” programme, Mr. Menon said that this, in turn, meant that there was an increased possibility of an “all-out nuclear war when India retaliates against tactical nuclear weapons with massive retaliation of its own.”

It beggars belief that this man was our National Security Advisor. So Pakistan cannot control its terrorists and its jihadi officers and they may spark a "all out nuclear war".

Pravachan is all there, what's missing is what can and should India do about it? Is this the sort of "advice" he gave to MMS as well?

yensoy · Post by **yensoy** » 21 Nov 2016 10:05

Falijee wrote:Old news, but still relevant in this day and age of Panama-gate Scandal !
Zardari ' s Henchman, Rehman Malik ( Ex FIR) Reveals Extent Of Ganja Sharif's Massive Corruption And Loot Of National Assets

Nothing has changed since the days of Aurangazeb vs Dara Shikoh, and possibly earlier, in terms of Mughal court intrigues, lust for power and willingness to obtain it at all costs, with display of exemplary cruelty in realizing the aim.

Kashi wrote:
SSridhar wrote:“I am not so sure that it’s any longer within Pakistan’s capacity to stop terrorism”, he said speaking to a television channel on Saturday.
It beggars belief that this man was our National Security Advisor. So Pakistan cannot control its terrorists and its jihadi officers and they may spark a "all out nuclear war".
Pravachan is all there, what's missing is what can and should India do about it? Is this the sort of "advice" he gave to MMS as well?

Respected ex-NSA sir, where have you been for the past 20 years? It was never within Pakistan state's capacity to stop terrorism since Zia's islamization drive.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 21 Nov 2016 14:48

SSridhar wrote:‘Pak. cannot control terrorism on its soil’ - The Hindu
Pakistan can no longer control terrorism on its soil, believes former National Security Adviser Shivshankar Menon, as terrorism is “hard-wired into Pakistan’s society and polity.”

“I am not so sure that it’s any longer within Pakistan’s capacity to stop terrorism”, he said speaking to a television channel on Saturday.

Sounding a warning note on Pakistan’s nuclear capabilities, Mr. Menon, who served as High Commissioner to Pakistan before he was Foreign Secretary and then the NSA, said that the likelihood of tactical nuclear weapons being used against India has increased, with “younger officers in an Army that is increasingly religiously motivated and less and less professional and that has consistently produced rogue officers and staged coups against its own leaders.”

According to a release from TV Today’s “To The Point” programme, Mr. Menon said that this, in turn, meant that there was an increased possibility of an “all-out nuclear war when India retaliates against tactical nuclear weapons with massive retaliation of its own.”

Actually Shivshankar Menon is probably right in the assessment that terrorism is no longer under control of either the Pakistan state or military.That much has changed from Musharraf's days. This is something all of us on BRF are going to have to suck up and digest because we will be hearing more and more of this. All new literature on Pakistan suggests that Pakistan is sliding down the path of more Islam and younger indoctrinated officers officers are taking over.

However the amount of pain they might be able bear is moot. If India sits back and allows itself to be hit, they may be tempted to hit more. But if they feel pain, they may prefer taqiyya

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 21 Nov 2016 15:21

Fully Posted on the CPEC Thread
CPEC project: Nascent industries afraid of big Chinese firms

ISLAMABAD: Despite prospects of hefty benefits in many aspects, the business community sees the $45-billion China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) project a threat to the domestic industry if the government does not come up with certain preemptive measures to give protection to vulnerable sectors of the economy.

Ub Pachhtaye Kaa Hoyi Jub Chiordian Chug Gaye Khet?
Cheers

ragupta · Post by **ragupta** » 21 Nov 2016 15:29

It is because of people like Shivshanker, that India's security is in bad shape.
If TSP cannot control T then it is not India's problem.
India must hit back and hit back hard, that is the only language TSP understand and will Understand.
The problem is of their own making, they enjoyed the fruit of it, now pay the price for it.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 21 Nov 2016 16:47

Reminds me of Saifuddin Soz trying to create doubts on Times Now when India was discussing the Indus Water Treaty Ban.
He was trying to protect Al Bakistan, but was couching his language by raising the China bogey. He was saying, you all don't know, what will we do if China blocks our water and being very aggressive about it.

That was until Gen Bakshi, Maj Arya and Arnab cut him down to size.

These older generation people are unable to orient their thought process to new realities, and have an old formula that they dish out again and again, performa like. No out of the box thinking.

Bart S · Post by **Bart S** » 21 Nov 2016 17:34

shiv wrote:
SSridhar wrote:‘Pak. cannot control terrorism on its soil’ - The Hindu
Actually Shivshankar Menon is probably right in the assessment that terrorism is no longer under control of either the Pakistan state or military.That much has changed from Musharraf's days. This is something all of us on BRF are going to have to suck up and digest because we will be hearing more and more of this. All new literature on Pakistan suggests that Pakistan is sliding down the path of more Islam and younger indoctrinated officers officers are taking over.

However the amount of pain they might be able bear is moot. If India sits back and allows itself to be hit, they may be tempted to hit more. But if they feel pain, they may prefer taqiyya

It is like the neighborhood thug and his dog. He might not longer be in control of the dog, but hitting back hard against both him and his dog has the below effects:
1> He will pay a price personally, so will be forced to at least try to rein the dog in, which might result in the dog attacking him instead, which keeps both of them occupied and gives them less opportunities to attack us. Besides, the owner is responsible for the situation and deserves to be punished, regardless of what his involvement in each attack is.

2> Hitting back would hurt the dog as well, and it's self-preservation instincts would kick in, albeit to a limited extent.

3> There is also the question of other neighborhood thugs and their dogs who might be thinking of attacking us. If we sit back and let attacks go unanswered, it is an open invitation for them to bully us as well, something that has been going on for a long time. It's wasn't a coincidence that pretty much all the SAARC countries joined our boycott of the SAARC summit soon after the surgical strikes.

Also, the premise is basically flawed, since though the Paki army might not control the jihadis any more (in the sense that the jihadis obey them 100%) they are very much involved and responsible for the jihadi's actions and are actively funding and supporting them. So the argument that hitting back at them will not make a difference is quite ridiculous.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 21 Nov 2016 17:59

ragupta wrote:It is because of people like Shivshanker, that India's security is in bad shape.
If TSP cannot control T then it is not India's problem.
India must hit back and hit back hard, that is the only language TSP understand and will Understand.
The problem is of their own making, they enjoyed the fruit of it, now pay the price for it.

Please hold your horses sirs.

Shivshankar Menon is not the problem. Just count the numbers of Indians, WKKs, peaceniks, libtards etc who think that peace is possible if we talk to the government and or the army. When the majority of Indians believe that Pakistanis want peace they fail to understand what Shivshankar Menon is saying. He is saying that there is huge groundswell support from the population that keeps the jihadis going - and that includes support from junior officers. They have their own source of funds and they are able to cock a snook at the army brass and the civilian establishment. Like Christine Fair was a useful tool to convince Indian cretins that Pakistan is a problem we need people like Shivshankar Menon (who has high credibility in certain circles) to be heard so the idiots understand that such talks are pointless in an increasingly Talibanized nation. By BRF being too clever by half we are throwing the baby out with the bathwater.

I just want to point out that despite being and out and out bitch Christine Fair stuck to her jihad and made sure that a large part of those who matter in India heard and understood her and IMO played no small part in making Americans sit up and see. I would not dismiss S Menon because we think he is an idiot. If he is an idiot he can be a useful idiot.

I don;t think even 20% of BRFites have udnerstood the internal dynamics of Pakistan and what the meaning of S Menon's words are but that is my guesstimate

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 21 Nov 2016 18:04

Bart S wrote: It is like the neighborhood thug and his dog. He might not longer be in control of the dog, but hitting back hard against both him and his dog has the below effects:

Hitting back requires political conviction in India and political conviction that every dog needs to be hit is hard to come by in India - let alone on BRF. Even here we have people feeling sorry for children dying in Indian shelling. That is an unassailable argument - after all which monster would cheer that. But the fact is that Pakistan has gone so far down the jihad road that we have to hit them and not talk. Who actually dies is left to them.

LokeshC · Post by **LokeshC** » 21 Nov 2016 22:48

Seems like rawheel is closing his shop and has set sails to oblivion. Unless he does something insane in the next two weeks.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 21 Nov 2016 23:35

CC Unfair was and is in no position to render advice to GOI.
NSA Minion on the other hand was the prime adviser who filled his thumbs and gives sage advice now.
So its not same thing.
If people need to hear him to get understanding of Pakistan they need to get their head examined because he is consistent in misreading Pakistan..

We had enough of these patsies in Indian govt services.
This person gave was the drafting error at the Sharam-el-Sheikh
After becoming NSA he made an elaboration on NFU which was not in the MND.
He told KS garu, only you noticed!

So he is a checked out guy and don't know what he brings to the table to entertain his views.
And now he is warning as sitting elected Minister about his views on NFU.

What he needs is a good danda on his head.

Is he selling a book or something we hear him now?

yensoy · Post by **yensoy** » 21 Nov 2016 23:47

ramana wrote:Is he selling a book or something we hear him now?

Exactly http://www.hindustantimes.com/columns/s ... o0yvI.html

Brookings Institution Press, the publisher's site: https://www.brookings.edu/book/choices/
published October 1, 2016

ramana wrote:What he needs is a good danda on his head.

Agreed, he is from the school of pompousness and self-importance, much like his namesake during the 1962 debacle. Extraordinary career bureaucrat and little else.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 21 Nov 2016 23:50

LokeshC wrote:Seems like rawheel is closing his shop and has set sails to oblivion. Unless he does something insane in the next two weeks.

Army chief Gen Raheel Sharif begins farewell visits
Naa Jannat , Naa Mannat, Laannat Hi Laanat

Gen Raheel Sharif has kicked off his farewell visits nearly a week before he is expected to retire as Chief of Army Staff, DG Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR) Asim Bajwa announced.The army chief began his visits on Monday at the Lahore Garrison where he addressed and thanked a huge gathering of soldiers of Pakistan Army and Rangers.Addressing the soldiers, Gen Raheel said accomplishment of peace and stability was "no ordinary task".The army spokesman had in January rubbished rumours regarding an extension in Gen Sharif's tenure as Chief of Army Staff, quoting the army chief as saying he will "retire on the due date" in November this year.Speculation had been rife regarding an extension in the COAS' term after former military ruler Musharraf called for an extension in his tenure, warning against a change in the military leadership.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 22 Nov 2016 00:02

Nuxear Power,Leader of Ummah Depends on Mahakuffar's Assurance for Safety.
China reiterates support to Pakistan's sovereignty, integrity

Chinese Assistant Foreign Minister Xuanyou also reiterated China's continued support to Pakistan's sovereignty, independence and territorial integrity. Acknowledging the sacrifices rendered by Pakistan in fighting terrorism and extremism, he assured China's full support against these menaces.During the bilateral meeting with Foreign Secretary Aizaz Ahmed Chaudhry, the entire spectrum of bilateral relations, including China-Pakistan Economic Corridor (CPEC) as well as regional and global issues of mutual concern came under discussion.The Foreign Secretary apprised the Chinese assistant foreign minister of the grave humanitarian situation in Indian-held Kashmir (IHK) due to the on-going human rights violations. He expressed the hope that the international community would play its role in calling on India to put an end to blatant human rights violations in the Valley.

partha · Post by **partha** » 22 Nov 2016 00:06

Wasn't Raheel Shariff trying too hard for an extension? Like organizing protests led by Imran Khan to put pressure on Nawaz Shariff? May be Indian surgical strike and later responses to ceasefire violations made him change his mind. LOC is so hot he thinks there could be a Kargil type war in the coming months and it's best to retire now in the name of Zarb-e-Bakwas and not risk surrendering to Indian forces tarnishing a carefully built image of an hero over the last 3 years.

Peregrine · Post by **Peregrine** » 22 Nov 2016 01:57

If SAARC fails, there’s BIMSTEC: India warns Pakistan

NEW DELHI: India sent out a clear message to Pakistan on Monday, warning it that South Asian nations would find other ways to cooperate on regional initiatives if it continues to block initiatives under the SAARC banner. Foreign Secretary S Jaishankar also presented a snapshot of what a 'SAARC without Pakistan' could achieve.

Without naming Pakistan+ , Foreign Secretary S Jaishankar took a shot at Islamabad in an address to a think tank in New Delhi. "Problem with SAARC is that some basic sort of standards of regional cooperation have to apply. If you say that I will be regional member but I will not allow regional trade, I will not allow regional connectivity, will not allow regional motor ways, I will not allow regional railways, then what is it about," he said, referring to a connectivity project that Pakistan had blocked at the last SAARC Summit in Kathmandu.When will the Indian Bureaucrats and Politicians understand that it is best if Cwapistan does not believe in the "so called regional cooperation". By doing so India has saved itself from Cwapistanis running wild with respect to Lorry Crews and Railway Passengers . It is best for India to keep the Cwapistanis away from Land Access in India.

"You cannot be a member of a region and block every possible regional initiative and still say I am good member. That sort of approach has to change," Jaishankar added.

He further indicated that if South Asian countries found their initiatives blocked under the SAARC banner, they would look to other regional groupings like the Bay of Bengal Initiative for Multi-Sectoral Technical and Economic Cooperation ( BIMSTEC+ ) to meet these needs.

He also buttressed speculations over a 'SAARC without Pakistan' by saying India is prepared for cooperation on regional connectivity projects. The stinger came when he expressed support for connectivity projects backed by China and referred to the Bangladesh-China-India-Myanmar (BCIM) project as an example. It should be named I B M C fo India-Bangladesh-Myanmar-China

The future of SAARC has been increasingly questioned after the cancellation of the summit that was scheduled to be held in Islamabad. The Summit had been cancelled in the heighted tensions following the terrorist attack on a military camp in Jammu and Kashmir's Uri.

Bangladesh, Afghanistan, Bhutan and Sri Lanka too had pulled out of the Islamabad summit, citing an unfavourable atmosphere due to an escalation of terrorist activities.

SAARC Summits can be held only in the presence of all members. Summits will stand cancelled if even one of the members pull out, making the pull-out by a number of countries a significant diplomatic isolation of Islamabad.

The continuing tensions between India and Pakistan have given rise to doubts over whether the consensus needed for a SAARC Summit will be reached in the near future. This in turn has led to the idea of a regional grouping without Pakistan being mentioned with increasing frequency in the discourses of South Asian countries.
Cheers

Naidu · Post by **Naidu** » 22 Nov 2016 03:00

Falijee wrote:Chief of General Staff Lieutenant General Zubair Mehmood Hayat is the senior most at the moment. He may be appointed as the new chairman joint chief of staff committee if decision taken on seniority. Lieutenant General Najibullah follows Zubair, but Najib has not commanded the corps. Multan Corps Commander Lieutenant General Ishfaq Nadeem, Bahawalpur Corps Commander Lieutenant General Mustafa Javed Ramday and Training and Evaluation Inspector General Lieutenant General Qamar Javed Bajwa are strong candidates for the army chief's office.

Really hoping for this Lt. Gen. Ramdev to be appointed the next PA COAS. Ideal replacement for Rawheel.

Falijee · Post by **Falijee** » 22 Nov 2016 03:41

Durand Line Crossing At Torkham Will Now Require Visa

Tribesmen asked to get visa for visiting Afghanistan

LANDI KOTAL: The Khyber Agency political administration and Frontier Corps (Khyber Rifles) have issued notices to local residents, making it compulsory for them to acquire passport and visa for travelling to Afghanistan and coming back to Pakistan via Torkham border.Copied to the assistant political agent of Landi Kotal and naib tehsildar without any official stamp and designation of the issuing authority, the written notices were displayed at prominent places both at tehsil offices in Landi Kotal and at Torkham border.

This is surely going to alienate the all tribes on both sides of the border and revive renewed calls for "Pushtunistan"

“On the orders of assistant political agent and Khyber Rifles commandant, all Pakistanis are here by informed that no Pakistani national would be allowed to go to Afghanistan and come back to Pakistan by only showing Computerised National Identity Card at the b(order after January 31, 2017,” said the notice, written in Urdu.It said that legal travel documents including passport and valid visa would be required for border crossing. It warned that strict legal action would be taken against those, who were found travelling without those documents.Assistant political agent Landi Kotal and naib tehsildar immigration at Torkham were directed to disseminate the ‘new order’ among the local people.

Interesting to see as to who will implement this measure; interesting to see the reaction of Govt of Afghanistan ; even the Taliban DOES NOT RECOGNIZE THE DURAND LINE (the agreement has expired !) as the border !

Ridiculing the official notice, a local elder Malak Razzaq said that the visa condition for travelling to Afghanistan should have been imposed by Afghan government and not by the local authorities.

So much so for the so-called "sover virginity" of Pakistan !

The federal government had in June this year made Pakistani visa compulsory for all Afghans coming to the country via Torkham border. The imposition of the border management policy has considerably curtailed the frequent illegal travelling of Afghans to Pakistan.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 22 Nov 2016 05:08

Raheel to chalu nikla - Raheel is a smart one.
He knows that the days of any Pakistani COASs are numbered, with humiliation just around the corner at the hands of the hindoo bunniya fauj.
He assesses that once evil Mooodi is done with his internal thing, he will again turn outwards and jangju pak fauj with their pyare jihadis will face the brunt.

He narrowly escaped the lampost and bartendering job in Englistan, by denying that any surgical strike took place. Although there are murmurs, and they'll only grow louder, that his martial fauj and their pyare jihadis got beat up black and blue, but he will be long gone with his hard earned commission gains to lands far far away.

Make no mistake, Raheel bhai saw the writing on the wall a long time ago, something like 6 months ago, that an extension or field marshal-giri is not possible. He was just lashing out at Nawaz in impotent rage at the demise of his career.

Now we wait for the next joker to come into pindi in December.
New Joker will have to do a terror strike on kafir india to prove his martial credentials and his initiation to the hall of fame of bak fauj.
Hope Modi-Doval-Dalbir Singh have a suitable welcoming committee with appropriate jhapads ready to go for him.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 22 Nov 2016 06:30

Looks like the Pakistan on the PIA plane got blocked by all the pakistaniyat

Plane forced to land at Manchester Airport after passengers block all toilets

A plane had to make an emergency landing after passengers blocked up all the toilets on board.

The Boeing 777 – which tends to have eight or nine toilets – was en route from Toronto to Pakistan when it was forced to abort the flight.

The Pakistan International Airlines flight landed at Manchester Airport following problems over the North Sea.

The airline said: ‘Today’s Toronto-Lahore flight has been diverted to Manchester as its toilet got choked, due to something solid thrown by passengers.

‘As all toilets are connected with a common drain line, the rest of the toilets were choked.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 22 Nov 2016 06:46

Falijee wrote:Durand Line Crossing At Torkham Will Now Require Visa
Tribesmen asked to get visa for visiting Afghanistan

Pakistan is trying to make the expired Durand Line agreement as de jure through back door. Even the Quetta Shura does not accept that.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 22 Nov 2016 07:30

ramana wrote:CC Unfair was and is in no position to render advice to GOI.
NSA Minion on the other hand was the prime adviser who filled his thumbs and gives sage advice now.
So its not same thing.
If people need to hear him to get understanding of Pakistan they need to get their head examined because he is consistent in misreading Pakistan..

We had enough of these patsies in Indian govt services.
This person gave was the drafting error at the Sharam-el-Sheikh
After becoming NSA he made an elaboration on NFU which was not in the MND.
He told KS garu, only you noticed!

Ramana - all these things are true. But it is also true that jihad in Pakistan is now out of control of army and civilian establishment.

Like monkeys with typewriter possibly typing Hamlet along with lots of nonsense - we have this man pointing out something that I think does not get enough attention on BRF because I believe we are still sitting in the past.

For example I hear a lot of people saying "When will the next Army coup start?" or "Time for a coup". This is a misreading of Pakistan and an example of living in the past. Pakistan is moving out of the "Army with a country" paradigm to a full fledged Sunni Islamic state. Every Pakistani group that has in the past felt that the army has had more power than they do have worked overtime to develop narratives that the army cannot control - mainly based on Sunni "Wahhabandi" islam". You and I may know that but The fallout is that Pakistan is now full of militant groups that have funding and armies of their own. Pakistan has multiple Islamic armies - and although the prime enemy remains India there are other enemies as well, including the Pakistani army itself, aside from Shias and Ahmedis.

This has a bearing on weapons and nuclear arms as well. So far the US has both funded the army and looked away as the nuclear weapon program continued. The army is gradually ceding ground to Sunni Islamic militias. Some of them are already in positions of power. As regards funding - Pakistan has as much as it needs. When the state does not need to fund education, sanitation or infrastructure and has received funds for contributing boots on the ground the actual economy of the state (agri/animal husbandry/consumer goods etc) are all used to strengthen the militias and the army and fund the nuclear program. This brings me to another one of BRFs myths - that Paki is a bhooka nanga state and cannot afford expensive programs. This is false. The Islamic militias are well funded from the internal economy and the army has been well funded from the US and the other 3.5

The fact that the Islamic militias needed to be controlled was known to the US even in the Dubya presidency - and after 2001 Bush took a conscious decision to support the Paki army, trusting that they were "moderate" and would control the Islamic groups the way Musharraf boasted that they could. It was only a decade later, midway into Obama's first term that the US began to acknowledge that the Paki army was not doing what it was being paid for.

Things have moved even further since then - the Paki army - which may initially have played a double game to keep anti-India jihad alive has now lost control. Jihad is an independent entity in Pakistan and is going to eat the innards of the Pakistani army. The emergence of a "third" (fractured islamic militias) power center in Pakistan is an important event and that is what Shivshankar Menon is talking about. He may have been wrong a thousand times in the past - but it is better not to discard this bit of information just because the messenger has a less than stellar past. The US itself - an entire goddam nation has had a less than stellar past, apart from our very own close to our hearts Congress libtard lefties. Everyone needs to learn so I believe we should not make facts a casualty because the speaker of that fact is a buffoon.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 22 Nov 2016 07:45

The Red Mosque takeover and the gradual occupation of Swat took place under the watch of Musharraf, the US's major post 9-11 ally who enables the acquisition of the upgraded versions of the very F-16s that could nuke India. Gen Kiyani did not have the guts to reverse that and played it safe except for the Red Mosque action ordered by Musharraf at the behest of the Chinese. It is for this action that Musharraf's life is under threat from jihad agencies in Pakistan even if our own NDTV and libtards love him.

Kiyani retired without a whimper and Raheel Sharif took over in time to see the Peshawar school massacre. That is what gave him the moral ground to conduct the Zarb -e-zamzam operation. Raheel Sharif has made serious enemies now. He can be killed - by one of his own men. he will have to clear out and save his own backside. He has survived by fighting only the jihadis in Baluchistan. he has carefully allowed the myriad internal jihadi groups to survive unfettered of which the Jamaat ud Dawa (LeT) and Sipah e Sahiba are only 2. there are literally dozens of others - all of who have a loose relationship with all other jihadis. Many of these groups run Islamic classes within the army itself - so Islamic theology has become a part of one's progress within the Pakistan army. That is essentially unstoppable now.

So far we have only joked about Pakistan needing more Islam. And while we bashed away at our keyboards, more Islam has come to Pakistan in the form of a population that has gradually accepted Talibanization forced on them because the army and politicians have always supported those groups to "fight India" and now the USA. The army and politicians have willingly ceded ground to the Islamic extremists and like the camel getting into a tent, that is what jihadis have done in Pakistan

i think we on BRF have a duty to recognize and understand the new dynamic and discard the old paradigms. We need to see the best way forward that is advantageous to us.

Falijee · Post by **Falijee** » 22 Nov 2016 07:46

Duty- Free Imported 2017 ( Bomb Proof !) S-600 Mercedes For (Now) Cancelled S.A.A.R.C Summit Gathering Dust In Isloo

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 22 Nov 2016 12:19

Peregrine wrote:If SAARC fails, there’s BIMSTEC: India warns Pakistan

NEW DELHI: India sent out a clear message to Pakistan on Monday, warning it that South Asian nations would find other ways to cooperate on regional initiatives if it continues to block initiatives under the SAARC banner. Foreign Secretary S Jaishankar also presented a snapshot of what a 'SAARC without Pakistan' could achieve.

SAARC was part of the plan to keep India tied down with low growth

Uncle was behind it. But Pak never realized that in the future it will have bad relations with Uncle since they never anticipated 911.

China has the same strategy with APEC. All other nations are allowed except India to APEC

abhishek_sharma · Post by **abhishek_sharma** » 22 Nov 2016 12:45

ANI ‏@ANI_news 24m24 minutes ago
New Rs 2000 notes recovered from terrorists gunned down by Army in Bandipora(J&K) today.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 22 Nov 2016 15:49

abhishek_sharma wrote:ANI ‏@ANI_news 24m24 minutes ago
New Rs 2000 notes recovered from terrorists gunned down by Army in Bandipora(J&K) today.

Local help

Rishi Verma · Post by **Rishi Verma** » 22 Nov 2016 16:06

SSridhar wrote:
Falijee wrote:Durand Line Crossing At Torkham Will Now Require Visa
Tribesmen asked to get visa for visiting Afghanistan
Pakistan is trying to make the expired Durand Line agreement as de jure through back door. Even the Quetta Shura does not accept that.

Pakistan is trying to act like a functioning nation, its always coming up with such symbolic and shambolic acts. Like a patient on death bed pretending to recognize relatives and manages to smile.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 22 Nov 2016 16:17

Cost list of the Mercedes Maybachs and BMW SUVs that Pakistan imported for the cancelled SAARC summit

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 22 Nov 2016 16:30

yensoy wrote:
ramana wrote:Is he selling a book or something we hear him now?
Exactly http://www.hindustantimes.com/columns/s ... o0yvI.html

Brookings Institution Press, the publisher's site: https://www.brookings.edu/book/choices/
published October 1, 2016

ramana wrote:What he needs is a good danda on his head.
Agreed, he is from the school of pompousness and self-importance, much like his namesake during the 1962 debacle. Extraordinary career bureaucrat and little else.

I don't like this creep but one has to be fair.

menon strongly advised against the signing of the sharm el sheik document but an adamant and pig headed MMS, no doubt softened and fooled by mellifluous urdu shayris quoted by gilani insisted on signing the document, in fact he ordered the preparation of the ill advised document in front of his paki guests and brushed aside all advice to the contrary. To shield MMS from the huge political fallout that later errupted in India and also the severe criticism from the congis thenselves, menon took the blame upon himself in the guise of a "drafting error", no doubt anticipating a huge reward for his loyal services at a later date.

If indeed it was a "drafting" error, should not MMS, a far more experienced baboo(n) himself, (and practically not much more than a baboo(n) all his unremarkable life) not caught the fatal error before signing it??

looks like both MMS and menon made fatal diplomatic errors that day.

The one who lost was Mother India.

Falijee · Post by **Falijee** » 22 Nov 2016 17:17

Raheel's Chamchas Again Approach Isloo Supreme Court To Elevate Him To Field Marshall Rank

ISLAMABAD: The Supreme Court has been asked to order conferring the title of field marshal on Army Chief Gen Raheel Sharif for rendering services to protect national security and safeguarding the frontiers of Pakistan by successfully launching Operation Zarb-i-Azb against militants.

The petition is an appeal moved by Sardar Adnan Saleem Khan Mazari — an executive member of the District Bar Association Rawalpindi — against the Oct 18 judgement of the Lahore High Court Rawalpindi bench which had rejected the same plea.

Law-hore is Ganja fiefdom, but Isloo is choke-full of Fauji supporters ?

The federal government through the cabinet division, Prime Minister Nawaz Sharif and the defence ministry were named as respondents in the petition.

So, from the above, it seems that Ganja is one-up on "Moochar Sharif"; any consideration of this "request" ( by NS) should ensure that the corrupt PM, gets something in return for "granting this request"

sudhan · Post by **sudhan** » 22 Nov 2016 17:30

1 Jawan bheaded, 3 killed in JK by a BAT team..

IA promises heavy retribution for the 'Cowardly act'

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 22 Nov 2016 17:59

That retribution must be very visible, very disproportionate and very soon. This must be something that the PA would remember for a very long time.

Raheel demanded the head of an Indian soldier and he got it, just like Musharraf got one from the one-eyed Ilyas Kashmiri.