Armoured Vehicles: News & Discussion

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 15 Nov 2016 20:11

I wonder if this new of urgent purchase and the ammo purchase linked below are they anticipating any short swift war in near future ?

http://www.defensenews.com/articles/ind ... -1-billion

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 15 Nov 2016 21:05

Pratyush wrote:Why loose cool, the armoured folks know best. They know the price they will have to pay if shit hits the fan.

So respect the choice made and live with it. The armoured folks are living with it. No.

The Indian taxpayer is footing the bill. And thus the Indian taxpayer is asking when a local tank is better, why buy a phoren tank. That is the issue. Granted the Arjun is more expensive upfront and is more expensive in logistical support (bridges, train carriages, etc), but the MoD is being penny wise, pound foolish. Not to mention the payoffs for the Indian industry when a local tank is purchased in large numbers.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 15 Nov 2016 21:12

ks_sachin wrote:On a more serious note there is another questions that is being asked - do we need so much of armour?

Saar, I am glad you brought that issue up. So a question, can having a large fleet of LCHs (or Apaches...Indranil don't shoot me

) successfully blunt a brigade or division-level armoured offensive? I don't know, so I am asking.

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 15 Nov 2016 22:43

People go back to basic physics

Pressure = weight over area.

Arjun's ground pressure is lower or similar to that of the Tincan.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 15 Nov 2016 22:43

^^ Staying power. A helicopter needs to go home to refuel. The tank can dig in and stay put for as long as required. Battle of Basantar where Indian Centurions dug in and repeated Pakistani assaults failed to dislodge.

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 15 Nov 2016 22:44

Read on the Abrams and their movement in Iraq!!

Marten · Post by **Marten** » 15 Nov 2016 22:48

Austin wrote:I wonder if this new of urgent purchase and the ammo purchase linked below are they anticipating any short swift war in near future ?

http://www.defensenews.com/articles/ind ... -1-billion

Within the year, Austin. I see all the decisions being fast-tracked because the Sharifs across the border realize their good-cop-bad-cop routine is up, and they are looking at existential issues now thanks to Immy and his supporters. There is only one way that the political Sharif family will avoid losing all their money (and the military Sharif losing all power).

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 15 Nov 2016 23:35

tsarkar wrote:^^ Staying power. A helicopter needs to go home to refuel. The tank can dig in and stay put for as long as required. Battle of Basantar where Indian Centurions dug in and repeated Pakistani assaults failed to dislodge.

And one can argue that a full enemy infantry Brigade in Longewala was decimated by air power. Even in defensive positions, such heavy armour is susceptible to air attacks.

We need armour to hold the ground, but to advance and gain ground air power is more suitable.

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 16 Nov 2016 09:04

Combined arms

Please refer the actions of all recent wars WW2 onwards

Air power is typically used first to decimate enemy air defences and destroy counter air capability to achieve total air superiority

Then ground forces advance to capture and hold ground

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 16 Nov 2016 12:38

Manish_P wrote:Combined arms

Please refer the actions of all recent wars WW2 onwards

Air power is typically used first to decimate enemy air defences and destroy counter air capability to achieve total air superiority

Then ground forces advance to capture and hold ground

I would like to add that though this might be the precedence set by the big powers AND/OR may be oft used by others, there is no hard and fast rule that it has to be done or will be done only in this way by our forces

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 16 Nov 2016 13:04

But you cannot refute the fact that in a major conventional conflict air superiority wins the day. Any day of the week. If you loose control of air. You will loose the war as well.

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 16 Nov 2016 13:11

Yes. To win a war air superiority is a given.

However to capture and hold territory (which could/should be a major reason for the war - in our case POK) you need armor and infantry on that territory round the clock

tsarkar ji has put it nicely in two words - 'Staying power'

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 16 Nov 2016 13:16

Marten wrote:
Austin wrote:I wonder if this new of urgent purchase and the ammo purchase linked below are they anticipating any short swift war in near future ?

http://www.defensenews.com/articles/ind ... -1-billion
Within the year, Austin. I see all the decisions being fast-tracked because the Sharifs across the border realize their good-cop-bad-cop routine is up, and they are looking at existential issues now thanks to Immy and his supporters. There is only one way that the political Sharif family will avoid losing all their money (and the military Sharif losing all power).

I dont know if this is a good thing , If this is a limited war in time and scale like Kargil then the nation would be less impacted but if turns out to be a war on all front even in limited time and scale then no one knows what the consequences will be

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 16 Nov 2016 14:07

No question about staying power. But with no air superiority, the ground forces slaughtered for no gain.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 17 Nov 2016 18:27

https://in.rbth.com/economics/defence/2 ... nks_648401

India seeks early induction of gen next T-90 tanks
16 November 2016 NATALYA RUDAKOVA, RIR
Tensions along the India-Pakistan border have spurred the Indian army to seek early delivery of the T-90MS tanks from Russia. A contract for 64 of these gen next tanks has already been signed.

The T-90 is the third generation Russian tank known for its fire power. Source:AFP/East News
Heightened tensions between India and Pakistan have seen the Indian Army seeking to bolster its firepower. Tensions along the border between the two countries have taken a toll, with casualties on both sides and, on Monday, the Pakistan Foreign Office summoned the Indian envoy to protest the killing of seven of its soldiers on the border.

Defence Ministry sources said the Indian Army is keen to induct the latest version of the T-90 tanks as soon as possible. India has inked a contract for 64 next gen T 90 tanks. The army wants the order to be split between direct imports and domestic production to induct all tanks as quickly as possible.

The T-90 is the third generation Russian tank known for its fire power. The export version of the new T-90MS tanks includes fragmentation projectiles with remote detonation to cause further havoc in adversary’s ranks.

Russia, India will expand military cooperation with focus on Navy projects
However, the army is not satisfied with the pace of domestic production and wants some of the tanks to be imported directly from Russia.

The T-90MS is the latest version of the famed Russian T–series of tanks. The India-Russia T-90MS tank will improve manoeuverability along the border, and send a strong signal to Pakistan.

The Indian military earlier had approved a $ 2 billion contract for purchase of 464 Russian T-90MS ‘Tagil’ tanks. The Uralvagonzavod management, which makes the T-90, considers the tank most suitable for the Indian army’s rearmament programme for a new main battle tank.

The Indian Defence Acquisitions Council (DAC), chaired by India's Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar, has pre-approved an armaments modernization project for the Indian armed forces for a total sum of 821 billion rupees (over $ 12 billion), the Times of India (TOI) had reported.

According to the report in the TOI, what has been approved is the purchase of 83 fourth-generation Indian light multipurpose fighter aircraft Tejas Mark-1A and 464 Russian T-90 tanks, and 6 additional regiments of the Indian MRLS ‘Pinaka’.

India plans to set up a licensed assembly plant for the armoured forces through the Ministry of Defence Ordnance Factory Board.

“T-90MS will replace the older T-72 tanks. It addresses some of the shortcomings of the T-90, is easily transportable and less weighty. The domestically made Arjun tanks were originally suited for the terrain in the border states of Punjab and Rajasthan. But increasing population centres and an enhanced network of canals have limited its areas of deployment and operations. This is where T-90MS will be more useful because they are lighter and more manoeuverable. The low ground pressure of T-90 MS tanks is an advantage in the soft sands of Rajasthan and mud of Punjab. “Therefore, T-90MS tanks are well suited for the Indian army,” Major General (Retd) G D Bakshi, a military analyst, was quoted as saying.

The Indian army plans to stop commissioning T-72 tanks in 2025-2030 and replace them with the average main battle tanks of the future. The project is known in India as the FRCV (Future Ready Combat Vehicle). The Russian T-90MS (upgraded T-90S) meets all parameters and could come under the new Indian tank fleet upgrade, said the UVZ CEO.

The T-90 went through baptism of fire in Syria in the spring of 2016. Sources of RNS agency in the Russian Ministry of Defence explained that, at the end of 2015, a large consignment of Russian T-90A tanks, which had previously operated in the Russian army, were delivered in Syria. Syrian tank crews even trained on the Russian sites. According to the agency, the T-90A tanks were first used by the Syrian army near the city of Aleppo, ensuring protection of the Syrian army assault groups.

The T-90 battle tank, built from 1980-1990 on the base of the T-72B, was named ‘Vladimir’ in honour of head designer Vladimir Potkin. The T-90MS is a modernized version of the tank’s export model, named ‘Tagil’. It is equipped with a 125-mm smoothbore gun – 2A46M-5 launcher, guided by missiles with laser-guided sight with thermal imager. The maximum sighting range of the armour-piercing shells is 4,000 m, and high-explosive shells – up to 9,600 m.

The maximum range of the direct shot at the target height of 2 m. is 2120 m. The tank is also protected with dynamic protection against chemical and armour-piercing shells. At the customer’s request, the active protection Arena-E system to combat anti-tank guided missiles can be installed in the T-90MS.

Prem · Post by **Prem** » 28 Nov 2016 11:21

http://nationalinterest.org/blog/the-bu ... otal-18499

India Took 35 Years to Make Its First Tank (And It Was a Total Disaster)

The decision to produce an indigenous Indian tank was made in 1972, shortly after the Indo-Pakistani War of 1971. In 1974, the state-run Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) was tasked with developing the tank. It was to be a forty-ton vehicle, armed with a 105-millimeter gun. It would be small enough to be strategically mobile, capable of being shuttled on internal lines (roads and railroads) to vital sectors along the long border with Pakistan.DRDO decided to make the tank, called Arjun, a mostly Indian design. The Combat Vehicles Research and Development Establishment, part of DRDO, was to design the hull, armor, turret, gun and running gear. The main gun and engine would be imported. Unfortunately, India’s defense-industrial base was nowhere near capable of creating such a vehicle. As if that weren’t enough of an obstacle, India’s world-famous bureaucracy and red-tape machine was another enemy to progress.Today, the Arjun Mk 1 is a sixty-two-ton tank, complete with a 120-millimeter gun, advanced composite armor, a 1,400-horsepower turbocharged engine, and advanced fire control and thermal sights. Although the tank’s specifications are impressive, the actual product leaves a lot to be desired.By 2009, thirty-five years after it was originally conceived, Arjun was “ready” for production. Despite shortcomings revealed in testing, the Indian Army was forced to buy 124 Arjuns—enough to equip just two armored regiments—to keep state tank production facilities open. By mid-2015, two years after the purchase was complete, nearly 75 percent of the Arjun force was inoperable due to technical problems.
Arjun’s armored protection evolved significantly over thirty-five years. The tank is fitted with Kanchan armor, a locally designed composite blend that is allegedly similar to British Chobham armor. Kanchan is rumored to be capable of shrugging off point-blank shots from the 125-millimeter gun of Indian T-72 tanks. Arjun is so well protected that its weight ballooned from the original forty-ton specification to sixty-two tons.
This increase in protection came at a cost—decreased tactical and operational mobility. As originally specified, a forty-ton tank with a 1,400-horsepower engine would have an impressive 35-to-1 horsepower-to-weight ratio. Unfortunately, Arjun’s weight ballooned from forty to sixty-two tons, with no corresponding increase in engine power. DRDO finally settled on a German-made MTU 1,400-horsepower water-cooled diesel engine, complemented with an Indian supercharger. Arjun’s horsepower-to-weight ratio sank to a mediocre 22.5 to 1. The vehicle’s weight also means it cannot be used in Punjab and the northern deserts of India in India’s “Cold Start” offensive strategy against Pakistan.In the end, the Arjun ended up with a 120-millimeter rifled barrel gun, capable of firing High Explosive, Armor-Piercing Discarding Sabot rounds, High Explosive Anti-Tank rounds and, perhaps not unusually for a former British colony, High Explosive, Squash Head rounds. DRDO conducted test firings of the Israeli-made LAHAT long-range antitank missile, which offered a high probability of kill against armored vehicles out to six thousand meters, but the round was dropped in 2014. DRDO claims it will develop an indigenous equivalent.
How did Arjun, which took decades to develop, end up being such a disappointment? The tank took so long to develop that technologies not even invented when Arjun was first proposed had to be added to the tank. GPS navigation, laser warning receivers, non-explosive-reactive armor and other innovations were merely research papers in 1974, but by the early 2000s were must-have inventions that added to the tank’s complexity, weight and cost.DRDO is busy at work designing Arjun Mk II, which will allegedly contain many improvements over the original Mk I. The Indian Army for its part is adamant it wants no part of the Mk II until prototypes perform satisfactorily, and would much rather buy an overseas tank. The army, for now prefers the Russian T-90 tank and may express interest in the brand new T-14 Armata tank. Russian state media has reported that India is interested in the Armata as the basis of a new, localized tank. Whether that’s true remains to be seen.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 28 Nov 2016 11:25

So new drama started. A totally one-sided rubbish which does not even mention that the testing done shown is Arjun is better than T90 and two regiments were even inducted and two more regiments were ordered.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 28 Nov 2016 13:27

The Vijayanta is history,plus it was our first attempt.It was a decent tank that served us well in the wars with Pak.Since then we've been making T-series MBTs plus the Arjun,upgrading old T-72s,etc.

Here's some news of the T-14 Armata.V-clip in the link has good coverage of Ru MBTs in exercises,T-14s,T-90s,etc.
https://in.rbth.com/multimedia/video/20 ... res_629485

Footage of the T-14 Armata reveals special features
Exclusive highlights from a variety of drills conducted by Russian tanks, including the T-14 Armata, are available in new footage available with RIR.
By Nikolay Litovkin, RIR

The Russian Defence Ministry has just released a video recording of a recent tank drill that shows, for the first time ever, the capabilities of the T-14 Armata. Russia’s newest tank is shown in the footage skilfully negotiating hillocks and trenches.

The video was recorded at a private demonstration during the Army 2016 military and technology forum, held in the Moscow Region between September 6 and 11.

The clip also includes footage of tank “battles” that took place nine years ago, during the Vostok-2007 strategic exercises.

The T-14 prepares for battle
The Т-14 tank, built on the ‘Armata’ platform, debuted at the Victory Day parade in Moscow’s Red Square on May 9, 2015.

The first batch of 100 ‘Armata’ tanks will enter into service with Russia’s ground troops in 2017-2018, said Vyacheslav Khalitov, deputy head of the Uralvagonzavod research and production corporation, the tank’s manufacturer, to the Ekho Moskvy radio station.

The published price of a Т-14 Armata tank is around 250 million rubles ($3.8 million). The basic model has a 125-mm gun. According to the tank’s designers and manufacturers, the Armata can be upgraded to accommodate a 152-mm gun. The Т-14 is capable of firing 10 shots a minute at an effective range of up to 4.5 miles.

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 28 Nov 2016 15:37

Philip Saar,

I don't want to buy the Armata.

I want an Armada - an armada of Arjun's!!!!!

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 28 Nov 2016 17:47

Naw. We are going to place an order for an armada of Armatas soon... just you want and see

Ukraine to upgrade Pakistan’s main battle tanks

Ukrainian State Company “Ukrspecexport” has been awarded a USD600 million contract to upgrade the Pakistan’s main battle tanks.

aditp · Post by **aditp** » 28 Nov 2016 21:42

How I wish that Porkis go ahead with this...

Why India will require more than T-90SM to deal with New Pakistani Army tanks

Long Live The Arjun

Marten · Post by **Marten** » 28 Nov 2016 22:13

Natashas from DGMF would pay off Khwaja to introduce Altay so that Armata can be introduced.

Philip sir, shame on whoever pushes for Armata as a counter to Altay (which is 65+ tonnes).

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 05 Dec 2016 14:28

Dollar 1.8-billion tank upgrade programme gets delayed

http://www.financialexpress.com/india-n ... ed/448494/

Despite receiving responses to the RFI for $1.8-billion upgrade programme of 1,500 BMP-2/2K tanks with anti-tank guided missile systems and engines for the Indian Army, the government has not yet started the process for evaluation.

By: Huma Siddiqui | New Delhi | Published: November 18, 2016 6:01 AM

Despite receiving responses to the RFI for $1.8-billion upgrade programme of 1,500 BMP-2/2K tanks with anti-tank guided missile systems and engines for the Indian Army, the government has not yet started the process for evaluation. The upgradation of the Indian Army’s Russian-made BMP-2 Infantry Combat Vehicles (ICV) will include increasing the mobility with change in engine, transmission, gear and suspension system, cooling system, weapons system and ammunition, gunner sighting (day and night), commander sighting, FCS, ATGM, level of protection, and maintainability.

According to sources in MoD, “Companies including L&T, TATA Motors, Ashok Leyland, Titagarh Wagons, Alfa Design, HBL Systems, Bharat Forge (submitted three bids), Mahindra, TATA Power (SED), Ordnance Factory Medak, Chogle Group and D Gipro Systems submitted their responses on August 18 this year.” However, the six months evaluation process that was expected to start in September has not taken off, thus pushing back the whole programme and the issuance of RFP only in late 2017.

“If the evaluation process starts and the RFP is issued by end of 2017, then the likely order will not be before 2022, all depends on the process moving smoothly,” the sources added.

The MoD had decided not to give an exclusive order to state-owned Ordnance Factory Board (OFB) to upgrade the and instead floated a global request for information (RFI) to seek participation by domestic and global defence companies in the upgrade programme.

The Indian defence companies have already started tying-up with overseas defence majors in the run up to the formal tender to upgrade 1,500 BMP-2 Infantry Combat Vehicles. Larsen & Toubro (L&T) has teamed up with MBDA of France; Both OFB and state-owned Bharat Dynamics Limited (BDL) have tied up separately with Rosoboronexport of Russia. For fire-control systems and thermal imaging sights, India’s private sector company Alpha Design has teamed with Elop of Israel. TATA Power SED is still scouting for an overseas partner, whereas state-owned Bharat Electronics Limited has teamed with Thales of France. For co-producing anti-tank guided missiles, private sector defence major Bharat Forge has signed a memorandum of understanding with Rafael Advanced Systems.

The latest RFI specifies that the overseas defence company will have to transfer technology to the domestic company as the programme will be in the Make in India category, according to sources.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 06 Dec 2016 01:46

Indian Army to Equip T-90 Tanks for Night Fighting
https://sputniknews.com/asia/2016120510 ... army-t-90/

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 06 Dec 2016 07:27

poor tincans!! Needing Yindu medicine!

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 06 Dec 2016 11:49

And it seems design contraints are preventing/hampering installation of the more advanced (and costlier) full 360 panaromic cooled thermal imager systems. The MBT arjun design had kept provision (space) for such a requirement

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 06 Dec 2016 13:55

Rakesh wrote:Indian Army to Equip T-90 Tanks for Night Fighting
https://sputniknews.com/asia/2016120510 ... army-t-90/

T-90 already had night fighting capability since Day 1 as they have Catherine TI sight system for Gunner/Commander now they are adding night sight to driver , perhaps TI vision integrated with LCD for driving.

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 06 Dec 2016 17:54

Wouldn't night fighting capability (especially offensive) be hampered to a good extent due to the absence of night driving ability ?
Has the night fighting ability of the Chinese/Paki armor come about only recently ?

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 06 Dec 2016 18:09

Manish_P wrote:Wouldn't night fighting capability (especially offensive) be hampered to a good extent due to the absence of night driving ability ?
Has the night fighting ability of the Chinese/Paki armor come about only recently ?

I think tank driver has to look some 10s meters ahead of them and are guided by gunner/ commander , perhaps they have some low light TV or ir channel available

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 06 Dec 2016 18:53

True. One can hardly expect them to flash their headlights as they move across the battlefield at night.

Another last ditch option (now obsolete or used only in case of catastrophic failure of the IR/TV systems) could be for the driver to wear his personal NV goggles and drive with his hatch open.

In general, would the driver of the T90 be at a disadvantage due to the lower profile of the tank ?

vaibhav.n · Post by **vaibhav.n** » 06 Dec 2016 23:02

The T-90 has the TVN-5 infrared night viewer for use by the driver during night time operations.

The night viewing devices TVN-5 and TVN-5L are designed to provide driving of armoured vehicles at night at natural night light. At low-level illumination (less 3x10"3lx) infrared lighting of the terrain is used.

The IA wants to replace that with TI sights for operation even in pitch black conditions or more likely our morning fog. Uncooled TI sights are also much more reliable and cheaper than cooled ones.

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 07 Dec 2016 07:50

Thanks Vaibhav.n

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 09 Dec 2016 15:14

This might be the wrong thread but just wanted to highlight that this tech might get deployed and standardised in the near future.

Armata tanks to be armed with 'Pterodactyls' UAVs

Armata tanks will be equipped with reconnaissance drones to ensure all-around scanning of the terrain for the crew. The drone, designed by the Moscow Aviation Institute (MAI), will be able to stay in the air for a very long period of time as it will have no on-board power sources. The UAV will receive power via a flexible cable directly from the tank.

The new lightweight UAVs is made of composite materials to ensure its durability and lightness. The cable-powered drone will be able to fly around the tank in a radius of 50-100 meters. It will also be able to ascend in the air for tens of meters. The portable radar and thermal night vision device will serve as the eyes of the "Pterodactyl."

I am reminded of the movie Red Planet i saw years ago. AMEE, the robot, launching a search drone from it's back. Cool Scene.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 09 Dec 2016 17:09

Quoting Pravada for any Russian news is as good as quoting CNN for US ,its unreliable

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 09 Dec 2016 17:40

Austin wrote:Quoting Pravada for any Russian news is as good as quoting CNN for US ,its unreliable

Perhaps. But the technology seems interesting. And Disruptive.

Added later - And perhaps it can be as an add-on module to existing tanks. It need not be added to all tanks in the squadron, just a few. With the live feed from the cameras relayed to any tank that needs it. And very temptingly looks doable in India, by Indians.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 12 Dec 2016 11:51

If accurate,this is simply incomprehensible.AS incomprehensible as the recent capsizing of a naval frigate in dry dock.
We have been using,importing,licence manufacturing Russian milware for over 50 years,and still do.How could such a delay and situ happen without being redflagged? Surely the MOD,DM,Min for Def. Prod., would've noted the lack of production of tanks at least after one year? Did neither of the DPSUs send an urgent request to the MOD for translators? Medak has been manufacturing BMPs for decades,Avadi for T-72s,so why did the T-90s receive such stepmotherly treatment after the docs/drgs. were recd? from Russia.If there was a delay from the OEM too,then even that should've been redflagged. One can only put this down to the utter dereliction of duty of the UPA govt. and the "Saint" AKA,who behaved like the proverbial 3 monkeys. A commission of inquiry must be set up and haul AKA over the coals.This happened on his watch.

http://www.asianage.com/india/all-india ... tanks.html

Age Exclusive: How India lost 6 years on T-90 tanks
THE ASIAN AGE. | SANJIB KR BARUAH Published : Dec 11, 2016, 12:56 am IST Updated : Dec 11, 2016, 3:31 am IST

The poor rate of production and delivery has forced the Army and the defence ministry to rely on import of T-90 tanks from Russia.
Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar (Photo: PTI)
New Delhi: In a telling commentary on the state of affairs in India’s defence manufacturing, a defence ministry internal report has pointed out that the production of the Russian origin T-90 tanks, a mainstay of the country’s Armoured Corps, was delayed by six years on account of inability to translate documents from Russian to English.

This is one of the several systemic failings to indigenously manufacture the T-90 tanks listed in a 55-page internal report of the defence ministry prepared in May 2016 and now with the minister.

Shocking and bordering on the absurd is the finding that while India started receiving the documents from Russia in installments 2001 onwards, the translation could be completed only in 2007, a staggering six-year-long delay in absorbing transfer of technology (TOT) by India’s Heavy Vehicle Factory (HVF) in Avadi, Tamil Nadu, and the ordnance factory boards (OFB), commissioned to roll out the tanks.

The report says: “The documents were in Russian and OFB efforts to get these documents translated into English failed. These documents were received between September 2001 and January 2003 following which HVF Avadi concluded four contracts between September 2003 and September 2006 for translation of these documents. The documents were completed by July 2007 after the expiry of scheduled delivery period of the first phase of 15 indigenous tanks by 2006-07. Thus translation of TOT documents from Russian to English language took almost six years.”

The report also states that though ordered to manufacture 945 T-90 tanks for the Indian Army, HVF/OFBs could churn out only 227 tanks by 2014-15 — less than 25 per cent of the target in 13 years. This despite the fact that the OFB failed substantially to indigenise and even now 70 per cent of the material (by value) is being imported. Indigenous production of T-90 tanks was to start in 2003-04.

“Due to serious slippages in production and delivery targets, HVF has been able to deliver only 227 tanks as against 945 tanks ordered by the Army and against their own cumulative capacity of 1,300 tanks (from 2003 to 2016) …As such HVF has been able to utilise only 25 per cent of their production capacity in the last 13 years,” the report says.

The poor rate of production and delivery has forced the Army and the defence ministry to rely on import of T-90 tanks from Russia. While the cost of an imported T-90 tank works out to Rs 14 crore apiece, the average cost of production and supply of a T-90 within India is at least Rs 21 crore, the report adds.

On November 7, the defence ministry had okayed the purchase of 464 T-90 tanks at a cost of Rs 13,448 crore under the “Buy Indian” basis from the HVF/OFBs. All tanks are produced at HVF, a dedicated departmental undertaking.

Defence minister Manohar Parrikar is understood to have asked state-owned PSUs to put their act together. At an event a few months ago, Mr Parrikar had slammed the work culture at PSUs and had asked them to step out of the “cocoon of comfort”.

The report also points out that TOT documents in respect of some critical assemblies were not transferred by the original manufacturers even after a lapse of 12 years, that is till July 2013. An important component was the T-90 gun system for which the design was not received till May 2014.

India has a mix of T-72, T-90 and Arjun tanks. After nearly three decades of relying on Russia-made T-72 tanks, 2000 onwards the government decided to gradually substitute T-72 tanks with the next generation T-90 in the Army’s tank regiments, as the DRDO-made main battle tank (MBT) Arjun was only reluctantly and partially accepted by the Army. T-90 continues to be the mainstay.

The government’s overall objective has been to import a few number of tanks and produce the bulk balance within the country through the dedicated PSUs.

PS:Sack the babus responsible both at the DPSUs and in the MOD...if they're still there.Privatise the OFB and Avadi.

If this is the situ with the DPSUs,no wonder HAL can only produce 6-8 LCAs per yr,as perhaps their manuals,drawings,etc. are made out in a foreign language,English! Imagine how we fondly hope that we will be able to manufacture 200+ 50 yr. old design US fighters l;ike the F-16 and F-18 too!

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 12 Dec 2016 12:00

Philip wrote:PS:Sack the babus responsible both at the DPSUs and in the MOD...if they're still there.Privatise the OFB and Avadi.

Yes. Also blacklist the OEM that subverted its contractual obligations by sending over untranslated documents.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 12 Dec 2016 12:15

Do you have proof of that? Don't make unsubstantiated accusations.We've as said before had 50 years of translating Ru docs.,including building T-72 tanks.If the OEM is at fault as I've already said before your comments,penalise them! But taking DPSUs to task appears to be a "holy cow" in the mango republic of India,where govt. run institutions are not accountable either for production and quality or financial prudence. It is a bottmless pit into which the taxpayer's money flows in forever and ever.

PS:Is anyone wanting to protect AKA and the UPA? This happened on their watch. AKA appears to have been in deep spiritual meditation during his tenure as DM.He appears to have woken up rarely,especially the time the sh*t hit the fan over the AW helo scam,rushing to cancel the deal with indecent haste to save his dhoti from falling off and exposing his "shockings"!

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 12 Dec 2016 12:46

Philip wrote:Do you have proof of that? Don't make unsubstantiated accusations.We've as said before had 50 years of translating Ru docs.,including building T-72 tanks.

Was the contract with the OEM printed in Russian? Was the payment made in rubles? Were the operational manuals & crew symbology for the T-90 in Cyrillic? Translation of technical documents is ALWAYS the responsibility of the OEM. That fact should be pretty damned obvious seeing as the OEM is the ONLY entity in a position to authenticate/certify the accuracy of the translation.

And these are classified documents that can't just be handed over to any commercial entity for translation. Is the MoD supposed to find a Russian-English translation agency with security clearances in India? How many Hindi-Russian translation agencies cleared to handle classified information are there in Russia?

If the OEM is at fault as I've already said before your comments,penalise them!

Right... so the babus should be 'fired' but OEM should just be penalised?

Companies associated with the son and a close relative of Sudhir Choudhrie, an Indian origin British citizen currently being investigated by the Central Bureau of Investigation (CBI) and Enforcement Directorate (ED) and whose name figures in CBI's list of "undesirable" middlemen, received over a hundred million dollars from Russian arms companies in 2007-08. - Link

Rosoboronexport which is the primary OEM for the T-90 (& UAC) is being investigated for payoffs worth over $100 mil, and have gotten away with umpteen breaches of contract but of course you want 'proof' not 'unsubstantiated accusations'.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 12 Dec 2016 18:10

So the babus and their bosses politico get off scot free.Where in the report has the OEM been found at fault? No wonder that MP the DM said that the DPSUs "must get out of their cocoon of comfort".His words not mine!

Reeeated ad nauseum.If any OEM is found guilty ,take them to task...and the DPSUs and babus enjoying their cocoons of comfort!