Castro RIP -Cuba,what next?

[vina]

social programs due not necessarily denote a socialist state. taxation of a capitalist state does not equate to socialism

that would make the department of defense a harbinger of socialism.

the Marine Corps is a deeply fascist socialist organization (beyond anything in Cuba) in defense of the republic. does that make the republic fascist socialist?

clearly it does not.

Well, if you read up Schumpeter much of what he said was "inevitable" socialism due to laws making and expanded welfare and legislation (often driven by the iron triangle of special interest groups, business groups and politicos.. the often used example in the East Coast Madrassa I went to was legislation for "urinals for short men" in the restrooms !) . He opposed the "Great Deal" and other welfare as classic examples of socialism! These targets /definitions are moving. What is "capitalism" today was not the capitalism of yesteryears in unalloyed forms. We have social safety nets, we have job protection, benefits etc.. etc, much of which made capitalism more humane and palatable.

So really, if you take the Schumpeterian view, long run , "socialism"/"capitalism"/ "communism" etc are all shades of the same. Maybe everyone will become like the "Social Democrats" of Europe as the final human destiny. Sure call it by any name you want. Trouble is, the European "Social Democrat" / liberal order is fraying and seems ripped apart. But I guess, it goes through it's cycles.

Like it or not, Fidel Castro WAS a Titan among men (yes even physically too, he towered above everyone else in photos and videos) and he had a signature , inspirational and key role in liberating vast swathes of humanity from tyranny and slavery , YES, a lot of the oppression and tyranny came from the US (Cuba was a proxy Hershey , United Fruit Companyand Oil interest colony). The Soviet Union too was a part of the historical process. That the Fidel and Soviet Union were tyrannical themselves is besides the point. You needed them to fight the Tyranny of the west.

It is like this. The rise of Germany and Japan, and the two world wars destroyed the imperialism of the British and French and other small European powers. It caused immeasurable suffering, TRUE, but it also created freedom and the process also created such unparalleled scientific , technological and managerial innovations, that created massive prosperity in the following decades.

[Philip]

Where has Russia "backstabbed" us with Pak? It hasn't sold Pak any milware of real threat to India. Most of Pak's most offensive weaponry comes from the US (F-16s,TOIWHarpoon/AAMs,Orions,etc.). Who is still supplying it with aid,etc despite admonishing it? Russia has to engage diplomatically with Pak because of Afghanistan. Don't forget that India worked out a deal with Russia to supply weaponry to the Afghans,where we paid for the same. Now they want us to repair/refurbish dozens of old aircraft and helos mainly of Ru origin.

Even hardline Western media acknowledge that Castro was a titan,who survived hundreds of US planned covert assassination attempts by the CIA,etc.
Like Gandhi,he inspired freedom movements all over the Americas,in nations desperate to rid themselves of the horrific effects of brutal colonialism orchestrated by the US in cahoots with dictators like Pinochet,Somoza,Noriega,etc.Castro may be dead,but his legacy will live on for a v.long time,especially if continued attempts to overthrow democratically elected govts. in S and Central America continue by vested interests. A new breed of leaders will emerge to the rescue of threatened nations. "Cometh the hour,cometh the men".

[ramana]

Philip, Nothing will change in short run. Raul et al will have to show Revolution continues without Fidel.
And if they persist, Trump will revoke any of the Obama overtures.

Cuba is no spring board fro India into Latin America,

Fidel et al are a coterie of dictators.
20 % of Cubans preferred to take their 50:50 chances with the Caribbean Sea.

Please don't read Comrade Yehcuri's nostalgia for revolution. He would have our heads.

Only Indians living under liberalization are mourning for Fidel.

Distances may do perspectives but should not distort the visions.

[chetak]

Sonam Mahajan ‏@AsYouNotWish Nov 27

Everybody has been tweeting about the death of Fidel Castro except for the people of Cuba. Speaks a lot.

130 retweets 285 likes

[Yayavar]

One has to look in the context of the times. One can say what did India's stand against SA apartheid do? But India did take a stand. Most of us probably only know it as not playing against SA prior to end of apartheid or the stamp in passports against travel to SA.

Cuba, due to Fidel fought against colonialism and apartheid in Africa, with and without the blessing of Soviet Union. Angola, Namibia, Congo, Algeria etc. saw their involvement. So there was an impact of Cuba on world order.

It does not take away the negatives within Cuba - of so many attempting to flee or lack of freedom for his own people. He had outlived the positives the admin had brought. But should the world remember only the negatives? Should one remember Eisenhower for all the mayhem in support of United fruit company only ignoring the positives?

[rohitvats]

Fidel Castro was good for only one person - himself.

He did not even bother with the niceties which the USSR or even China implemented - the party system which chose leaders. No, Sir. It was Maximo Lider all the way! And after him, his brother carries forward the torch of revolution. Cuban version of our dynasty politics.

He delivered Cubans from one dictatorship only to impose another one - his. A natural progression of events post revolution would've been to have genuine representative government, reforms and policies for upliftment of people and more vibrant economy. But all that might have meant giving up power. And not getting to play the Maximo Lider role to all the dispossessed in South America. And Africa, even.

When Cubans sided with him to overthrow a corrupt regime, they did not sign-up for a communist state. They, like many around the world, became part of the revolution because it promised a better life. What they'd not bargained for was the fact their lives will be stuck in a rut from which it will never leave. They went from not having bread on table to having ONLY two loaves of bread on table.

The biggest drawback of Communism is that it is against natural human tendency of enterprise, to grow and prosper and excel in life. It wants everyone to remain poor. And it will use an iron hand no less severe than the tyranny it promised to deliver from.

For people, revolution was to be a change leading to better life. Not stagnation and barely surviving. As per Fidel Castro - 'Even our prostitutes are post-graduates'. Some revolution, no?

So, while we can sing paeans about USSR and its role in multi-polar world, the good or bad about Fidel Castro needs to be judged from the perspective of Cubans.

As for Americans, their Presidents and its irresistible urge to spread democracy, with a B-52 if required, all said and done, America is good to Americans. And to those it considers friends.

Was Fidel Castro good for Cubans?

[chetak]

$120 million bed-hopping hypocrite: He claimed he lived on $25 a month. But Castro had 20 luxury homes, a private island, an 88ft yacht - and mistresses galore

[Yayavar]

Communists especially, (and all elites in general) presume to think for the common man. And then they force the people to do what they think is good for them. The gulag, Mao's cultural revolution, and Cuba's ills are all due to that.

Still the impact of CAstro's cuba during 60's and 70's in African independence is a fact. It is a fact not a eulogy.

[Manish_P]

Was Fidel Castro good for Cubans?

As a bhartiya on a Bharat Rakshak Forum, only thing i would judge him by is - 'Was Fidel Castro good for Bharat and Bhartiyas?'

[Manish_Sharma]

This book gave me some good idea about how fidel & communism are a farce, very nicely and entertaining to read by the writer of "Gorky Park",

'Havana Bay' by Martin Cruz Smith
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Havana_Bay_(novel)

Certain people love the dictatorship of Soviets and castro, but forget the suffering of their people. While same posters condemn 'demonetization' fearing the start of 'raid raj' in Bharatvarsh fearing their own freedoms and conveniences.

[chetak]

[Rudradev]

Was Fidel Castro good for Cubans?

As a bhartiya on a Bharat Rakshak Forum, only thing i would judge him by is - 'Was Fidel Castro good for Bharat and Bhartiyas?'

Excellent question.

All the Soviet-Nostalgic Romanticisers of Russia and its rapidly-sinking whelps need to answer something.

For all those decades when Fidel Castro ruled the roost and made loud proclamations of Non-Aligned Bhai-Bhaidom with successive Indian governments... why did Cuba make it virtually impossible for Indian citizens to get even a visitor's visa, let alone entrepreneurship/trade/business access to the island?

[Yayavar]

were Indians not allowed? It could be that the rules are new but it seems Indians can visit Cuba with a tourist card for 30 days.

In other context what could Cuba do for India? I'm not sure what the other NAM guys - Yugoslavia being another big name did for India. NAM itself is lost and gone but Indians believed in it at one time so in that context they were with India for that much.

I do recall Cuban boxing coach for India...so some minor help in sports

[Rudradev]

Yugoslavia did quite a bit. My cousin was actually posted as a trade attache to Belgrade in the 1980s. The relationship was marked by considerable exchange of industrial technology, manufacturing and agricultural know-how, etc. If I'm not mistaken we sold Ashok Leyland and Mahindra vehicles and Bajaj two-wheelers there, and in other parts of eastern Europe as well. Also in African nations that were NAM members.

No such access for Indian goods in Cuba, though.

However, your boxing-coach story reminds me... a friend of mine who works in pharma/biotech in India mentioned that his firm was doing some really great R&D collaboration with Cuban scientists over the last 4-5 years. So maybe it's not all bad, or has improved recently at least.

I don't think Cuba ever officially had a block on Indians visiting, but three or four Indian passport holders have remarked to me that their experiences with Cuban embassy staff were even worse than the notoriously harsh US embassy/consulate staff when trying to get a visa. The US personnel of course are perpetually inundated with visa requests from Indians, but who were the Cubans to act so pricey?

[ramana]

Sanjay Badri Maharaj has written about Post Castro Cuba: India's opportunities in Swarajya magazine.

Please post a link.

Thanks,
ramana

[Yayavar]

I don't think Cuba ever officially had a block on Indians visiting, but three or four Indian passport holders have remarked to me that their experiences with Cuban embassy staff were even worse than the notoriously harsh US embassy/consulate staff when trying to get a visa. The US personnel of course are perpetually inundated with visa requests from Indians, but who were the Cubans to act so pricey?

All countries act uppity with Indian passport holders; used to at least. Long back I was upset at mexico refusing me i.e. just not accepting the app. and so I asked to meet the higher up. And she coolly told me that they fear desis could skip into USA and hence they are reluctant. Later I met a desi guy who shared such a plan so they were not off. But dont think desis would consider the Cuba route. It was most likely bureaucracy.

[Bart S]

I don't think Cuba ever officially had a block on Indians visiting, but three or four Indian passport holders have remarked to me that their experiences with Cuban embassy staff were even worse than the notoriously harsh US embassy/consulate staff when trying to get a visa. The US personnel of course are perpetually inundated with visa requests from Indians, but who were the Cubans to act so pricey?

All countries act uppity with Indian passport holders; used to at least. Long back I was upset at mexico refusing me i.e. just not accepting the app. and so I asked to meet the higher up. And she coolly told me that they fear desis could skip into USA and hence they are reluctant. Later I met a desi guy who shared such a plan so they were not off. But dont think desis would consider the Cuba route. It was most likely bureaucracy.

OT, but that might be the reason why. If you have a valid US visa you don't need one for Mexico, which basically implies that they have no problem with letting you in so long as you aren't going to become a headache for them by trying to get into the US illegally via Mexico.

Yugoslavia did quite a bit. My cousin was actually posted as a trade attache to Belgrade in the 1980s. The relationship was marked by considerable exchange of industrial technology, manufacturing and agricultural know-how, etc. If I'm not mistaken we sold Ashok Leyland and Mahindra vehicles and Bajaj two-wheelers there, and in other parts of eastern Europe as well. Also in African nations that were NAM members.

Relationship with Serbia (at the very least) is one of the many missed opportunities of Indian foreign policy. There are probably missed business opportunities as well, we could have taken over their airline or at least used their airport as our European hub, sadly we lack any kind of vision or imagination, and the less said the better about AI or even private airlines like Jet.