Understanding the United States of America (USA) - IV

[Dipanker]

its like 410 AD all over again.

What is 410 AD Ramana ji?

Sack of Rome (410)

[UlanBatori]

HENRY KISSMahAssINGER on DT

In the name of common human decency could u pls avoid posting images of that lying sh1t here? Some of us still remember 1970-71.

[UlanBatori]

HENRY KISSMahAssINGER on DT

In the name of common human decency and the memory of the 3 million Hindu innocents of East Pakistan, could u pls avoid posting images of that lying sh1t and convicted genocidal war criminal here on an India-friendly forum? Some of us still remember 1970-71. Sorry...

[svenkat]

http://www.unz.com/article/an-obituary-of-the-new-york-times/

Working with the government to suppress stories, covering up election fraud in the ruling party and ruthlessly campaigning against the main US opposition leader, The New York Times has sentenced itself to wither away into irrelevance. Remembered only in history books as a relic of the Cold War, much like its sister newspaper Pravda of the Soviet Union. The New York Times R.I.P.

...the assumption that The New York Times was capable of making meaningful deals with governments was not entirely unfounded. Bill Keller spoke of how he successfully negotiated to freeze the NSA warrantless wiretapping-story uncovered by Eric Lichtblau for two years until after the re-election of George W Bush. This top-floor was also where the Iraq WMD evidence was concocted with the help of the Pentagon and handed to reporter Judith Miller to pen, later letting her hang when the wind changed. This, Keller also told me, was where the CIA and State Department officials were invited to take part in daily editorial meetings when State Department Cables were published by WikiLeaks. I would personally witness how this was the place where Sulzberger himself oversaw the re-election coverage of president Obama. And this was much later where the main tax-evaders of the US would make their cases so that the Panama Papers on their tax records would never reach the public eye (which at the time of writing, they have yet to be).

...Imagine my surprise when I saw that the very same paper had these special floors, off-limits to journalists, where the dodgiest deals with the dodgiest figures were being brokered, and that the heads of this newspaper were not even embarrassed about it. Rather, quite the contrary, they seemed to gloat.

After meeting with Keller and Sulzberger at The New York Times, I felt a heavy sense of sadness about what I had witnessed.

Since the last few months I am however no longer sad about any of this, for during the current election cycle in the United States, The New York Times has so clearly abandoned all rudimentary standards of journalism and alienated its readership so badly, that it has sentenced itself to wither away into irrelevance. Remembered only in history books as a relic of the Cold War, much like its sister newspaper Pravda of the Soviet Union.

As a Swedish reader of The New York Times, I may be surprised that the paper has ignored election rigging in the governing party of the United States serious enough to cause its top five officials to resign. But it doesn’t really matter, since I can read the source material on it via WikiLeaks. As a foreign journalist I may be surprised that the paper has chosen to downplay the political bribes of the Clinton Foundation, but it makes little difference because the Associated Press has made the investigation available for me to report on. As a citizen of a western democracy I may be surprised that The New York Times so clearly campaigns against Trump and for Clinton, rather than reports on the policy issues of the candidates, but I can ignore this since I can read and listen to what they say themselves, while I can get a variety of more enlightened and entertaining campaigns all over the blogosphere. If I were a US citizen however, I would be more than just surprised.

And this is where The New York Times has lost it. By dropping its veneer and abandoning its self acclaimed standards of journalism, it has sentenced itself into irrelevance. Because even if the newspaper has steadily been outflanked by many blogs when it comes to audience size, it was until recently considered to be an important platform from which the US elites formed their world-view. But a newspaper with such a small reach, that is no longer taken seriously even by the main presidential candidates of its own country, a newspaper that doesn’t abide by the most fundamental journalistic standards, namely publishing rather than hiding newsworthy, correct information, has very little to offer either any powerful people or its own readers. Because even propaganda has to be good, for it to have any value.

I enclose as a small eulogy the following email exchange with a couple of editors from The New York Times. The emails are significant if only as examples of how the newspaper stopped living up to the most basic elements of journalism towards the end of its life. In them editors Bruce Headlam and Isvett Verde explain that The New York Times does not correct mistakes, does not grant the right of reply, and does not, as a matter of policy, publish material about its own censorship.

If you have any other documents pertaining to the demise of The New York Times, please email them to me or send them to WikiLeaks. One of these days I will collect them for a proper obituary.

[brar_w]

Mccain is not really a stalwart just a insane war hawk. No point in dt accomodating him. Rest are reasonable bets if they want to play ball with dt.

McCain faction of the party and point of view is well represented in Trump's appointments and candidate's shortlisted for NatSec roles. Mike Pomeo at the CIA for starters. If McCain had to choose a SOS and SecDef out of retired military (for Trump) it would have been Mattis and Petraeus. If it were a civilian/politician, I'm sure Romney, Corker and Cotton would on his list of recommendations. McCain was pivotal in getting Petraeus back into the Senate's and SASC's good side after his scandal. He probably want's nothing more than do his last term as the SASC boss and the senate majority gets him that. The seats up for re-election 2 years from now will ensure he retains that for the a couple of more years beyond 2018 and through Trump's term. He's 80 years old so there isn't much to accomodate other than ensure that those that allign with his FP views have access to the GOP POTUS. That and a smooth OSD transition. As Obama and Carter have found out a combative SASC Chairman can be very hard to counter.

Other than that there isn't much McCain can accommodated on. He has certain problems/issues with every administration and picks on those from time to time (usually when he needs something in return). It was the Russian engines (he'll be glad that Sessions is leaving the Senate) and the sequester with Obama and he had a few issues with GWB as well. McCain will be McCain but a much happier McCain now that Trump is hiring or meeting some of the folks he is meeting .

[panduranghari]

First of all trump will do no such thing as prescribed by that neocon Kissinger. Inspite of all the shenanigans modiji got elected and similarly India Has continued to rise and will continue to rise. India, s time has come and no one whether us, China , pakis or anyone else have the power to stop it. It has been ordained by the gods after 822 yrs and it is unstoppable.

I do concur with you though it may seem 'wishful thinking'.

India has a lot going for it at the moment. Unless we decide to go Paki (which is very unlikely), we are going to find a tail wind propelling us. Kishor Mahbubani said in one of his talks(in 2009 AFAIR) that post 2020, India will go through a patch where there will be no opposition to what it chooses to do. The only thing that he thought will ruin it is if we do not have the political will to take the bull by its horns. He never explained what he meant. He could very well have forseen this change happen or may be he was doing 'wishful thinking' too. The demographic dividend will pay many times over. The malthusian economists of the west will eat crow when they see the outcome. Demographics will break the west like it will break China. While some in the west are talking about robots doing our jobs, that is a long way away. And even if it does happen, we will be able to use it just as much.

Kissinger is a followers of Cardinal Richleiu and like the Cardinal who had the ear of Louis 13th in France, Kissinger had the ear of Nixon. That Trump will follow what the MIC will dictate is uncertain. He might resist it but may give up at the end to stay in power.

US, unless they keep improving the economic health, why will migrants move there? As Ramana saar has said it feels like the sack of Rome. This could not be more closer to the reality in the USA too. Like in Rome, there was debasement of money, migration of 'barbarians' into the imperial city and the military was stretched. History does not repeat but it certainly rhymes.

[Suresh S]

at least somebody remembers this piece of shit also known as Kissinger.What I wish happen to him I can not write on this forum.

[UlanBatori]

Gov. Nikki Haley to be US Ambassador to the UN
Elaine Chao to be Secretary of Transportation.
Can someone spell "Rainbow (rightwing ) Coalition"? I think a lot of smug elitist superstitions and prejudices are taking a beating.

[Lalmohan]

^^^ that depends on how seriously trump takes the UN?

transport - what is the trump agenda?

EPA so far has not gone off to a good start, and we need to watch who ends up finally in the NSA/DoD - petraeus not a bad option compared to 'mad-dog'

[ramana]

Panduranghari, thanks for kind words.

I think NaMo should work with Mexico and Caribbean/Latin America countries to allow 1M Indian population each (total 3M) to improve the entrepreneur opportunities there.Will stop the migration as work opportunities improve. Donald might agree.

UB think highway infrastructure.

Ealaine Chao is Mrs Mike McConnell!!!

[ramana]

BTW I am thinking we should rename this thread Understanding the Americas.

[ramana]

410 AD is sack of Rome.
Especially poignant as US thinks they inherited the Roman mantle.

In 410 AD Rome retreated from England and left them to the social turmoil.
this led to emergence of England.

---
Dipanker Sahi pakde aap.

[ramana]

PH, In British National Gallery of Art near Nelson's column there are more portraits of Cardinal Richelieu than in Louvre!!!

He had more influence on England than in France!

[Bart S]

Panduranghari, thanks for kind words.

I think NaMo should work with Mexico and Caribbean/Latin America countries to allow 1M Indian population each (total 3M) to improve the entrepreneur opportunities there.Will stop the migration as work opportunities improve. Donald might agree.

UB think highway infrastructure.

Ealaine Chao is Mrs Mike McConnell!!!

Mitch saar, not Mike. She also has Taiwanese roots, not PRC.

[MurthyB]

And from the annals of 'rising intolerance' hate crimes in these Trumpian Dis-Yoonaated States comes yet another dastardly incident that calls into question the very future of minorities here.

[Suresh S]

Interesting thoughts Ramana. I was thinking of similar things with regards to Russia. vast country not many people, they could use temporary Indian manpower to develop their economy, agriculture etc, a win win situation. Indians have done the same thing and succeded in Canada with similar weather conditions . Did not think about latin america and Mexico but I guess same applies only easier weather wise

[TSJones]

you're going to have to wait a while before you see the sack of the US.

[Dipanker]

410 AD is sack of Rome.
Especially poignant as US thinks they inherited the Roman mantle.

In 410 AD Rome retreated from England and left them to the social turmoil.
this led to emergence of England.

---
Dipanker Sahi pakde aap.

Credit goes to your erudition for citing such relevant parallels from history, you are the boss!

[ramana]

you're going to have to wait a while before you see the sack of the US.

No one wishes that. Look.at the parallel. Iraq war and financial crisis, and debt growth are the three horsemen. Trump is trying to stall them and Morons don't get it.

[Rudradev]

you're going to have to wait a while before you see the sack of the US.

No one wishes that. Look.at the parallel. Iraq war and financial crisis, and debt growth are the three horsemen. Trump is trying to stall them and Morons don't get it.

Add to that a fourth horseman, the lack of real employment that can sustain a person or family at the prevailing cost of living (let alone creeping inflation that is already swarming around the edges of the Fed's recalcitrance). Working three Walmart-type jobs with no health insurance, no child-care (let alone prospect of sending children to college), and a crippling debt-servicing spiral that wipes out savings before they even come into existence... that is what far too many Americans are dealing with today.

[TSJones]

....and I am seeing a 5% unemployment rate, unlimited supplies of energy tearing at the heart of a cartel, regular decapitation strikes on a foreign terrorist enemy, and prospects of great technological change. and the world is richer than a 100 years ago, way richer.

[GShankar]

you mean America can't be greater? blasphemy!!

It is in bery bery baad situation. There are some who will make it great again.

[Rudradev]

This article argues that the concomitant phenomena of Brexit and Trump's election victory signal an end to the "Anglo-American order" that the world has become used to.

http://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/29/magaz ... order.html?

It's an interesting perspective from someone representing an interest group that has always been closely linked to the Deep State in both countries.

He expresses taqleef that, in the newly emerging US-UK relationship post 2016, the guiding principles will no longer be defined by the conventional wisdom of the US and UK Deep States pre-2016... a thought process which his interest group played a prominent and influential part in shaping.

[GShankar]

What do you think those terms would be?

RD, re-joining a conversation from yesterday..

Before getting to terms, summary of my current (limited) understanding on deepstate(s):

1) I think deepstate is a revolving door (at least for a few). Every once in a while some come in and some go out
2) They like money more than race (may be 60:40 split)
3) They want to avoid nuclear war since they stand to loose most
4) International deep states work transactionally as needed. No love lost otherwise

Now to what terms american deepstate might be amenable to:

1) Gain deals with some russian oil fields and operating license to certain pipelines from russia to europe
2) Gain access to quite a few Syrian oil fields and pipelines.
3) Some additional market access in Russia for whatever
4) With Russia's help get a better deal with Iran
5) Russia to release a few political prisoners
6) Snowden? (may be deepstate doesn't care but a political win)

In turn Russia gets the following.

1) Get Nato out of ukraine
2) un-freeze accounts
3) remove sanctions
4) Syrian peace treaty
5) Energy (economic) security (for a few years)

May be I am just scratching the surface. However, I am thinking there is enough money to make us and ru Appy for creating temporary peace for a few years.

[Rudradev]

GS, it is possible.

Where I differ with you is the idea that the Deep State is a "revolving door". It is more like an escalator going one way (up onlee) with careful vetting of those who get on board at the bottom, by those who are further up along the escalator already. A radical difference between deep state and government is that governments get voted in or out, but the institutions of the deep state manage things to ensure their continued prominence and endurance no matter the dispensation of the government of the day.

These institutions, whether the bureaucracy, military, think-tanks, intelligence agencies, universities, financial institutions, or private corporations, adhere to core principles where hierarchy is king, and longevity (seniority) is the key to advancing in the hierarchy. The people coming in are typically young acolytes; their advancement depends critically on being faithful to the thought processes instilled by their mentors, who are further up the ladder. At the other end the only way people "leave" the deep state is through retirement or death (the rare lifelong member who suddenly decides to rebel is quickly silenced and marginalized by the full force of all the deep state's agencies).

That is exactly why the central motivating principle of the deep state is policy inertia. The longer you survive and thrive, the higher you go, and the more influential you become. Conversely, with each passing year there is less and less chance of any new, contrarian thought process or alternative vision disrupting the solidly ossified conventional wisdom that you (and your former mentors, and your devoted students) prescribe as gyan.

That's why a 93-year old Kissinger is practically a god to them; meanwhile, a young contrarian (like Christine Fair for example) will always be an outsider and never get very far.

In this light, looking at the terms of the deal you mention, it seems that many of the terms that you describe as likely to appeal to the American deep state:

1) Gain deals with some russian oil fields and operating license to certain pipelines from russia to europe
2) Gain access to quite a few Syrian oil fields and pipelines.
3) Some additional market access in Russia for whatever
4) With Russia's help get a better deal with Iran
5) Russia to release a few political prisoners
6) Snowden? (may be deepstate doesn't care but a political win)

are indeed likely to appeal to certain political stakeholders in the Trump GOTUS. But I'm not sure if they are enough to make the machinery of the deep state willing to change the orientation of its very gears and axles... that would take much more, requiring benefits that are not only permanent but provide a base to build further avenues of profit. They would have to be gifts that are veritably guaranteed to keep on giving, otherwise the inertia-prone institutions would not be interested. Possibly your (1), (2) and (4) would fall under this category, though they would have to come with the types of guarantees that Putin is unlikely to agree with. Your (3) would need to be very clear what it is the market access is for and what terms and to what extent Russia would be locked in. Your (5) and (6) are way too short term for the deep state to care about (other than as diplomatic pawns in and of themselves).

I see it as the difference between the long-term investor (deep state) and the speculator (Trump GOTUS members and stakeholders, such as some members of the US Congress trying to get a sweet deal for their constituents before the next election, etc.)

[GShankar]

I did say revolving door is only for a few. The rest stay permanent probably. Let me try to explain why I think this to be the case and hope I make sense.

Deepstate, like any other power center, if a new power comes along, they will first try to co-opt for so called mutual benefit than sabotage immediately. Here in the present, deepstate have to come to terms to the new reality. The cold war phase is over and they should come up with new ideologies and gameplan for the future.

In bomber's 8 years, d-state played their hand well during clingon's 4 years including fake talks with putin, G2, failed ops in georgia, ukraine, color revolutions, etc. ending up in ISIS. However, everything did not work to their favor for various reasons. Now, I believe the d-state need to move to a new ideology. And per my imagination (and wishful thinking), the 93 year old criminal is on the way out. He is probably uttering his last words while retaining some relevance. I hope he is gone sooner than later.

The new UI (faces) of the d-state will have many colorful (asian, hispanic, chinese, black, etc.) mutu types to mislead the world. Will see what colors come out.

[Suresh S]

Deep state is a escalator, definitely not a revolving door and J syndicate has complete and total control of it.Military take over is the only way to destroy it, there is no peaceful way this can ever happen. That is why Trump will always be only marginally successful and only in the short term. Long term there is no hope except the US military. There is no other way that I can see.I do not see military taking over US anytime soon . And that is why I do not think US has a good long term future. USA may cease to be the dominant or very relevant power by next century and very likely in the second part of this century .

[UlanBatori]

CNN tries to cope with cognitive dissonance: another "colored" wimmens appointed. The one who knows how to make BOcare actually work. Indiana has seen costs drop and choice improve with BOcare. Because they had a sensible desi-bibi running the show.

About Elaine Chau: well, one could say that now the 'Zee has Won the Heart and Mind of the T-Party, because he literally has MM by the ****s, hain?

[ramana]

Truer words have never been said. Right after election MM was claiming he will set agenda!
BTW Romney came out after dinner with DT and Rubio Priebus all praise only.

[Yagnasri]

Bush family also behaved disgracefully with their drama and indirect appeal to vote for HC, boycotting the convention etc. Are we seeing considerable fall in their family support among the voters?

[devesh]

http://foreignpolicy.com/2016/11/17/eno ... r-radical/

Enough Hysterics. Donald Trump’s Foreign Policy Isn’t Reckless or Radical.

Edward Luttwak

Has a line about Deoband.

[Manish_P]

TSJ

Would like to request you to please elaborate on the bolded parts

....unlimited supplies of energy tearing at the heart of a cartel, regular decapitation strikes on a foreign terrorist
enemy, and prospects of great technological change. and the world is richer than a 100 years ago, way richer.

Once you realise that richness is relative, you feel that the last part is true for some, not so true for others and that's the way it has always been

[Philip]

You know like that cult flick "Demolition Man", set in the future starring Rambo-Stallone,Snipes and Sandra B, the only restaurants left in the future are Taco-Bell.So max employment -which is actually happening now,will be at these junk food outlets like Big Mac. The Western world's coffee bars like Starbucks,pizza parlours ,KFCs and burger joints will be the only one's with expanding employment and waists! pardon the pun. Even these may disappear if the latest strategy of China succeeds, promoting Chines eculture worldwide to replace western culture,with Chinese restaurants and take-aways replacing classic western junk food joints,where for authenticity and "colour",all staff will be yellow-faced,slit-eyed,walk like ducks...you get the picture! (Pl ,no racism intended,just stating the obvious)

[Yagnasri]

From what we know that is the case almost everywhere. All Chinese "aid" actually goes into creating jobs in China and for Chinese. Just like western aid. But in the case of the west, they allow brown sahebs some jobs as there are fewer goras willing to work in dirty places. Chinese seems to have no such problems.

Iran deal was not approved by US Congress. So in the above FP article, the statement that DT can not go back on it is wrong as all DT need to do is to pass an executive order.

[TSJones]

TSJ

Would like to request you to please elaborate on the bolded parts

....unlimited supplies of energy tearing at the heart of a cartel, regular decapitation strikes on a foreign terrorist
enemy, and prospects of great technological change. and the world is richer than a 100 years ago, way richer.

Once you realise that richness is relative, you feel that the last part is true for some, not so true for others and that's the way it has always been

I will assume that you sincere in your request from me for further opinion from me so here goes.......

1. unlimited energy.. as our technology improves we keep finding more sources of energy from oil to solar to wind. recoverable deposits of oil keep growing in the US and elsewhere. a 100 years from now we won't be burning oil for energy; we will need it to make stuff.

2. the US capability has increased exponentially in its ability to identify and strike terrorist leadership. use of drones is key as well as cyber resources. the drones and computers never sleep.

3. great technology change,,,,,,,we are on the cusp of life and culture changing technology......from food stuff production, energy production and robotic AI.

in the US there will be less and less need for livestock production, manual physical labor in manufacturing and the need for lower enlisted ranks in the military,

how our society will adjust to this I have no idea.

teaching will change too. every child will have the equivalent of a personal cybernetic tutor.

4. never in the history of the world has it seen such a cornucopia of food, goods and services, the next 100 years with the technology changes, it will be even more abundant.

unfortunately politics and culture keeps a lot of people held back from the riches. famine occurs in those areas are backwards politically.

[Singha]

I am all for healthy clean lab growth meat and fish using seed animal and veg protein to drastically cut down the number of farmed animals. once the raw material can be grown at scale, its simple to make anything with it steaks, chops, curry cut, bengali cut etc.

and it will already be boneless at source ... someone pass me the naans and chicken butter masala

[Manish_P]

@TSJ

I will assume that you sincere in your request from me for further opinion from me so here goes.......
>> Yes Sir, i was asking the question with genuine seriousness. Likewise my responses below. Well most of them anyway

1. unlimited energy.. as our technology improves we keep finding more sources of energy from oil to solar to wind. recoverable deposits of oil keep growing in the US and elsewhere. a 100 years from now we won't be burning oil for energy; we will need it to make stuff.
>> Ok. So you actually meant 'finding new sources'. That's a bit different from 'Unlimited supplies'. A 100 years from now - well who knows - hydrogen cells, cold fusion etc

2. the US capability has increased exponentially in its ability to identify and strike terrorist leadership. use of drones is key as well as cyber resources. the drones and computers never sleep.
>> The US capability has certainly increased in it's ability to identify and strike those it considers as terrorists. After all One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter and all that jazz... True that the drones and computers never sleep. They also only do what the man behind the machine tell's them to do

3. great technology change,,,,,,,we are on the cusp of life and culture changing technology......from food stuff production, energy production and robotic AI.
>> As mankind has been since ages. But the pace has certainly increased exponentially especially since the industrial revolution and the computer revolution

in the US there will be less and less need for livestock production, manual physical labor in manufacturing and the need for lower enlisted ranks in the military, how our society will adjust to this I have no idea.
>> Them avian turkeys might be thankful for the first part Don't know how the homo sapien versions might react to joblessness. Perhaps they can declare war on the turkeys

teaching will change too. every child will have the equivalent of a personal cybernetic tutor.
>> Well could be. And advanced models will have multi-role built it at the click of a switch. So in addition to teacher-mode, there will be Nanny-mode, doctor-mode, gym-teacher-mode, playmate-mode...

4. never in the history of the world has it seen such a cornucopia of food, goods and services, the next 100 years with the technology changes, it will be even more abundant.
>> And the promise continues... as it should be!

unfortunately politics and culture keeps a lot of people held back from the riches. famine occurs in those areas are backwards politically.
>> And it will continue to be... as it need not be!

[Yagnasri]

http://www.financialexpress.com/world-n ... al/460434/

Outgoing CIA head is giving gyan to DT crowd. On almost everything. I thing I thought is funny. Waterboarding. Really? Having done so many nasty things over decades, staff in CIA are not feeling good now about waterboarding?

[panduranghari]

Rudradev ji,
Please accept my 'obeiscence' for the fantastic post on American deep state. While there was a discussion about Indian deep state on twitter gufa, if possible write one on Indian Deep State too. (KS guru and Ramana ji obituary to KS guru has some great stuff about Indian deep state).

--x--

TSJ Saar,
How can you explain this, assuming what you are saying in the earlier post is correct?





https://ourfiniteworld.com/

While what I call “fossil fuel EROEI” was a reasonable starting place for an analysis of our energy problems back in the 1970s, the calculation now gets more emphasis than it truly deserves. The limit we are reaching is a different one: falling return on human labor EROEI, at least for those who are not among the elite. Increasing wage disparity is becoming a severe problem now; it is the reason we have very divisive candidates running for political office, and many people in favor of reduced globalization

--x--

Ramana saar,
You sent a pdf sometime back about statecraft. Its quite educational because it has explained quite a lot of things from Thucydides, Troy, Rome, Britain under Cromwell, US, Gulliver travels, Dante's inferno. I kind of covers how the western deep state thinks. I think all of us must read it. If anyone is interested in recieving it, I will email it to you.

https://www.amazon.co.uk/Grand-Strategi ... 0300171331

[LokeshC]

Pandu saar,

at that super large time scale there is one very simple answer. Transhuman phase. The real energy need for humans is the brain. Once a full formed brain is simulated (including chemical and metabolic functions) we would really need to only consume as much energy as that computer. Which scales very very well.

Once that happens you will see a drop in total energy, while the energy density would go to near black hole levels. A blackhole is the highest density energy storage and computational machine there ever is and will be.