Indian Navy News & Discussion - 22 April 2015

yensoy · Post by **yensoy** » 30 Nov 2016 19:54

Cosmo_R wrote:Excerpted from WSJ
...
Instead, they discovered the carrier wouldn’t be operational for up to a decade and other shortcomings: no small missile system to defend itself, a limited ability to launch sorties and no defined strategy for how to use the ship in combat.

So what exactly have we been doing with our aircraft carriers for the past 50 years?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 30 Nov 2016 20:26

Rishi Verma wrote:
OT question, is my observation correct that most of the above mentioned critique is voiced by fully washed NRIs? we partially washed just look at the pictures, spit gutka, and ride away on our smokey scooter. /OT

Your observation has nothing to do with NRIs - but more to do with the dominance of American sourced propaganda of American weapons and wars which are absorbed and internalized by Indians because of 90% dominance of American media sources within Indian media. (As Arnab Goswami pointed out) The Indian role is inability to see that there is an Indian view and an Indian experience outside of the ubiquitous American information. Indian experience does not count and Indian equipment is worthless. The function is second rate the appearance is third rate. This is reinforced by genuinely ignorant and third rate photographs from Indian media camera persons who are good mainly at photographing women, poverty and destitution, not technology. Everyone claims pride in India, but the US must be copied to be really great. As China copies the same things the US did, it rises in rank and now we can copy China and/or the US. Our own views are second rung.

Children who grew up in an era of books had their parents buy for them glossy books with Western, esp American weapon images. The same thing has been ported to the internet, which is American, except in China. And now this is a self justifying thing where you will be told that the American military and equipment is the best in the world because it is the best in the world. Suck it up and swallow it down. That happens even on here.

A point about photography - if ship plates are uneven and the light is tangential they stand out. Many US/European photos are taken in "soft light" (clouds) or lighting not tangential. In India harsh sun and ignorance of photographers about what should be shown and what should not be highlighted leads to bad images. A great image of LCA in HAL will have a chowkidar with paunch and shirt hanging out in the background. The guy needs to be shooed off or cropped out. Apart form the US, Russian, Chinese and even Pakistanis are masters at propaganda imagery. When Pakistanis show images of women they are all pretty, faces and hair uncovered giving the impression - "This is Pakistan". Images are used to tell lies by everyone except Indians who haven't figured out the value of lighting and cropping to give a positive impression

Sorry this is all OT

Rishi Verma · Post by **Rishi Verma** » 30 Nov 2016 21:20

^^Thanks for the insight. Obviously our defense journos writing as well as photography is lacking. Reflects on lack of skill set in the country as general.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 01 Dec 2016 00:06

Rishi Verma wrote:is my observation correct that most of the above mentioned critique is voiced by fully washed NRIs?

The reason for the disconnect being most military literature/web content read by people is of western origin and advertising - both for their markets and ours.

Its like people whose idea of women are fairness cream / soap advertisement models and thereafter getting disappointed when real life women aren't like that.

There is very poor understanding of PR in India, especially Govt & Military. Most PROs are passed over officers.

I had earlier posted the example of how Niazi was psyched by good PR, but that was a rare exception.

Since its a good story that needs re-telling, I hope it gets wide circulation

http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 307_1.html

I had the unique opportunity of being the Public Relations Officer of the Army in New Delhi during the the 1971 India Pakistan operations.

As an officer in the Directorate of Public Relations, I was attached to the office of the Army Chief, General S.H.F.J. Manekshaw, who later became a Field Marshal for his role in the war.

Pakistan had nearly four divisions in its eastern wing. Three divisions were deployed along the border with India to plug the main arteries that converged into East Pakistan. The Pakistan military thought that if the roads were blocked, the Indian Army would not be able to reach Dacca.

During the first week of the war, the Indian Army tried to negotiate the rivers and be at the rear of the Pakistan Army. The Indian Air Force neutralised the Pakistan Air Force in its Eastern Wing within the first two days of the war and the Sea Hawks of the Indian Navy's aircraft Carrier INS Vikrant flattened landing sites at Chittagong and Cox's Bazar.

In addition, surprise attacks by the Indian Navy through missile boats in the West tied down the rest of the Pakistan Navy, which suffered the loss of a submirine Ghazi, which was stalking the INS Vikrant.

Much to the surprise of the Commanders of the Pakistan Army in the East, the Indian Army dropped troops of the Para Brigade in Tangail on December 12 in the rear of the Pakistani Forces.

I remember running into the Director of Military Operations, Major General Inder Gill, when he told me the previous morning that the Indian Army would be organizing a para drop and asked me to ensure good publicity for the event. Major General Gill was the Colonel of the Para Regiment and I knew that publicity for the paradrop was vital for the operation.

I requested the Chief Public Relations Officer of the Eastern Command, Colonel B.P. Rikhye, to ensure maximum press coverage at his end. I was disappointed on the morning of December 12, when he told me that he could not arrange for the pictures as the paradrop originated from a place where he had no access.

It occured to me that I had gone to Agra a year or so earlier to cover an exercise by the Para Brigade. I rushed to the defense photo section and dug out the photograph printed and released in Delhi of the Agra event. This picture was released with a caption that said troops of the Indian Para Brigade were airdropped over East Pakistan on the morning of twelfth December. I deliberatly eliminated saying that it was a file photograph. Not a lie, but not the complete truth either. The photograph made it appear that an entire para prigade had been airdropped.

The picture of the paradrop was published on the front pages of the newspapers all over the world, including leading newspapers in the United Kingdom like the Times, London, and the New York Times in the United States.

The march of the Indian paratroopers from Tangail towards Dacca unnerved the Pakistan Army. The Indian Army had taken steps to ensure that the mobility of the Pakistani troops towards Dacca from the positions they had taken earlier were blocked.

On one of those afternoons, I was called to the Army Chief's room to ensure the recording of the message to Pakistani troops in the East Pakistan. The Secretary of the Research and Analysis Wing, R.N. Kao and the Director of External Publicity S.K. Singh, who later became the Foreign Secretary were present.

The substance of the message, which was in Urdu from Sam Manekshaw to the Pakistani soldiers was: You are living in hostile territory among a population who hate you. You are surrounded. The Pakistani Air Force in the East has been grounded and no reinforcements are possible. The ports are under the control of the Indian Navy. I give you an assurance with full authority as the General of the Indian Army that if you surrender you will be looked after honourably and I will ensure that you will be able to return to your families safely.

Simultaneously, surrender documents were printed with the message of Sam Manekshaw and airrdropped at various places in the east. These were drafted by Col. V. Longer, who was earlier Director of Public Relations in the Ministry of Defence, and had joined the Research and Analysis Wing.

The message of Sam Manekshw was broadcast over the All India Radio in national and medium wave channels from Calcutta at frequent intervals. The surrender documents were airdropped too.

Events came to a close quickly. The march of the paratroopers, the march of Indian formation from the Tripura border, led by Lt. Gen. Sagat Singh, coupled with the messages from Sam Manekshaw, and the pressure built up by the Mukti Bahini, unnerved the Pakistan Army. Major General J.F.R. Jacob, the Chief of Staff of Eastern Command, who flew to Dacca, was able to bring pressure on Lt.Gen. A.A. K. Niazi and finalised the details of the surrender to the Indian Army. Lt. Gen. J. S. Aurora flew to Dacca to accept the surrender.

I had known that the surrender was to take place on December 16, but could not tell anyone. The privilege was that of Prime Minister Indira Gandhi who announced it in Parliament.

The war was over.

A week later I heard from an officer who was present in Dacca after the momentous days, that when asked why the Pakistan Army surrendered , even though it could have held on for weeks, Lt.Gen.Niazi pointed at a copy of the Times London, which was on his table which carried a photograph of the airdrop of the troops of the Indian Para Brigade. as one of the reasons.

I felt that I too had played a small part in bringing the war to an early end.

I had to fight a 'war' in my office in Delhi later when I had to furnish reasons why I did not mention that the photograph I released was a file picture. My boss sought an 'explanation' from me. But in another room, in another office, a certain R. N. Kao smiled and appreciated my work. I soon became a Kaoboy.

By I. Ramamohan Rao.

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 01 Dec 2016 00:10

I don't give two cents about folks who question the peeling paint on the Stealth destroyer or bajaj wali hamlet.
Lets just ignore these muffas and carry on folks.

If you need a supporting argument to lean on then I have been an ardent follower of the saying

An Inspection Ready Unit Never Passed Combat
A Battle Ready Unit Never Passed Inspection.

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 01 Dec 2016 00:19

Nice story tsarkarji!

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 01 Dec 2016 00:30

The other problem is our Media doesn't post stories or capabilities of our forces or manufacturing or R&D unless its sensational.

I took a bunch of schoolkids earlier this week on occasion of Navy Week where a good show was put up, especially a high speed fast rope from a Seaking to Fast Attack Craft. No media published this photo

The PRO also put up photos of INS Kamorta during ASW exercises but no media published this photo

PS - those are very normal sea state 3-4

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 01 Dec 2016 02:39

^^^ WOW !!!

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 01 Dec 2016 06:45

Great pic below - but it illustrates a comment that someone made above:

Reflects on lack of skill set in the country as general.

The average educated desi, including a journalist would look at the photo and not recognize a ship because he would only have been taught in class 3 to draw a trapezium and call it "boat". After school he gets a job in "Indian Express" and is tasked with reporting on the Navy.

tsarkar wrote:

PS - those are very normal sea state 3-4

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 01 Dec 2016 07:20

Off topic: There could be one more reason for the scooter helmets and peeling paint argument. That Indian's want things to be perfect. 100 percent. Could be something that we must have inherited from time immemorial from the beautiful architecture that we see all across India, the details of which are so perfect. Good or bad, this could also may be the reason for comparison with others. If they could do it, we can do it better.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 01 Dec 2016 07:22

Uddu, unfortunately that's not the case.

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 01 Dec 2016 08:05

Zynda wrote:^^I hope some of the comments are exaggerated but it is concerning. With Navy's close involvement, one would think some of the operational deficiencies would be addressed right during the design phase. I am no expert, but that POV may be an American one which may be different from Indian Navy's.

and this one:

While carriers are losing their relevancy with the proliferation of cheap antiship missiles and advanced attack submarines, they are still likely to remain at the core of most major navies for some decades.

I'd not read much.. but take problems are those that is work in progress. These are the very same foxes that would attack during the night to kill your chickens

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 01 Dec 2016 08:08

uddu wrote:Off topic: There could be one more reason for the scooter helmets and peeling paint argument. That Indian's want things to be perfect. 100 percent. Could be something that we must have inherited from time immemorial from the beautiful architecture that we see all across India, the details of which are so perfect. Good or bad, this could also may be the reason for comparison with others. If they could do it, we can do it better.

This is rhetoric. Not fact.

If the head needs protection but not from bullets, what is wrong with scooter helmets? If locally made helmets from an established Indian industry meet the requirements why not use them? What were requirements? No one asked any relevant questions but assumed that it needs to be "better" than what they see in a photo. The assumption is that the image shows that Indians are wrong because others wear something different. This is attitude. Based on one photo. No questions asked.

Paint will always peel/fade on well used equipment
and there will be oil streaks. Propaganda photographs from slick western photographers never show that - but it is always there if you search eg

http://img.bemil.chosun.com/nbrd/files/ ... efuel2.jpg
http://www.rcaf-arc.forces.gc.ca/assets ... 02-029.jpg

And a fantastic propaganda image that ignores rust and paint and draws attention to M1 crushing a car - this is how the photographers think when they shoot.

Anyhow all OT. This is my last

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 01 Dec 2016 11:07

Yep,only true-blue Yanquiis know how to operate carriers."71 saw the comparatively tiny ex=RN carrier Vikrant with ancient SeaHawks perform far more gloriously than the USN's nuclear-powered Enterprise which tried to bully the IN.True,even the VikA came without enough SAM capability,but was later refitted with Barak.My only concern with the report is the "10 yr" period before she enters service.WE were expecting the carrier to have entered servcie in early 1017 so that the Viraat could retire gracefully.She is sailing into the sunset not because she isn't seaworthy but because of a lack of Sea Harriers,tx to the shortsightedness of the IN when dozens were available from Britain for a song-all gobbled up by the USMC! The SHs could've been very useful transferred to our future amphib flat tops after the Viraat was decommissioned. The delay in getting the new Vikrant into service casts a shadow on our future 65K t Vishal. That beauty will at this rate enter service only around 2030 .Hopefully it won't be a case of "too late the hero".

By 2030,China will have at least 3-4 new carriers and can easily spare one of them to permanently sail in the IOR based out of Gwadar.Gwadar has to be thought of as a Chinese base even today from where it can operate any kind of naval asset from nuclear subs to carriers.Unless we also have forward basing facilities in Vietnam,etc.,in the Indo-China Sea, we will be on the defensive against the Chinese,which is the strategy that they want us to adopt.
Right now,we have the offensive advantage in the IOR,from where we can venture into the ICS better than they can in the IOR.But after they've established permanent bases,repair facilities,etc. they will be able in theory to attack us from the west as well as the east and even from the south from Hambantota if their plans materialise. Engaged with defending ourselves in our won backyard,we will not be able to ionterfere with China's maritime ambitions in the ICS and Asia-Pacific theatre. Pakistan also benefits hugely from Gwadar as its inferior naval forces will be strengthened with Chinese assets and force India to think twice before attacking Pak as it may lead to a wider war which China hopes will happen so that it can "teach India another lesson".

Unfortunately,the GOI though making better progress on the defence front,has yet to realise the enormity of the challenges that lie ahead and is still treating Pak and China separately.The US is NOT going to come to our aid in any spat with China,and we must defend India ourselves .Therefore,a massive rearmmament programme must be pit into operation asap which involves maximising local manufacturing potential as well as importing urgently needed weapon systems,missiles and munitions,so that until 2020 we have the capacity to engage in a limited war with Pak on our terms.Post 2020,China will be able to send into the IOR more of its naval assets and may even base a few sqds of its aircraft at Gwadar.

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 01 Dec 2016 11:25

Interesting post on the paradrop photo. That was called out by a Canadian ex- military as a file photo of an exercise because that is not how wartime paradrops are done. Too bad Niazi did not know the same.

I actually remember this photo.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 01 Dec 2016 16:21

It may be because in India people do not do what they want to do but what they think their neighbour/family/friends find cool or impressive to do.

In India journalism is manned by folks from humanities stream which gets the least quality input as medical > engineering > commerce > arts. So people with talent in journalism may become doctors and vice versa.

Broad generalisation but I believe that explains the poor quality of press reporting in India.

shiv wrote:Great pic below - but it illustrates a comment that someone made above:
Reflects on lack of skill set in the country as general.
The average educated desi, including a journalist would look at the photo and not recognize a ship because he would only have been taught in class 3 to draw a trapezium and call it "boat". After school he gets a job in "Indian Express" and is tasked with reporting on the Navy.

tsarkar wrote:

PS - those are very normal sea state 3-4

KBDagha · Post by **KBDagha** » 02 Dec 2016 12:53

Navy Chief Says need a new fighter aircraft for carrier operations within the next five years. Looking at options.

ragupta · Post by **ragupta** » 02 Dec 2016 13:53

Indicates everything is not good with Mig-29K, as it is IN is the only one using it in large number, and for everything it has to go to Russia for work, sure it would be costing Money and logistical pain.

sum · Post by **sum** » 02 Dec 2016 13:57

^^ Thats what it indicated to me too though the headline talks of the NLCA.

IIRC, NLCA anyways wasnt a serious contender since its a looong way to go to get it fully carrier capable and if the MiG-29K had been as good as initially thought of, they would have just taken more of it rather than another one being thrown into the mix

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 02 Dec 2016 14:14

Indian Navy rejects Pakistan claim of pushing back its submarine, calls allegations ‘baseless’

http://www.financialexpress.com/india-n ... ss/462257/

Navy’s Chief Admiral Sunil Lamba has today said that Pakistan Navy’s assertion that it saw Indian submarine its waters was “totally bogus”. Addressing media persons, he said that there was no Indian submarine deployed in the area as claimed by Pakistan and that repelling submarine of any nation is not an easy task.

He further said that submarines are deployed by the Indian Navy where the operational necessity is needed. Stressing that the Navy will continue to deploy its submarines as and when required. the Navy chief said that the Navy has reviewed deployment philosophy to counter any menace . Admiral Sunil Lamba further said that Navy is aware of its role to shape up a positive maritime environment in the Indian Ocean.

The Navy chief also spoke on the South China Sea dispute and observed that like all other Maritime boundary issues, South China Sea matter should also be resolved according to international maritime laws.

Last Thursday, Pakistan had termed an alleged effort by an Indian submarine to enter into its territorial waters as “unusual.” It also warned of retaliation if such effort was made. Speaking on the sidelines of the 9th International Defence Exhibition, Pakistan naval chief Admiral Muhammad Zakaullah had said that If India does something like this again, Pakistan Navy will respond to protect its sovereignty.

Pakistan had also claimed that the Indian submarine was pushed back after being detected near its waters, which India dismissed as “blatant lies”, saying that its Navy did does not have any underwater movement as claimed by the neighbouring country.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 02 Dec 2016 14:16

India’s first homemade aircraft carrier falls short of US expectations: Report

http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... s-4404232/

ragupta · Post by **ragupta** » 02 Dec 2016 14:26

US expectations, not surprising, consultant will always find weakness.
It would be a good indicator to improve on easy to do items, rest could be designed in new carriers.

get the feeling that the assessment could have been for SH operation.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 02 Dec 2016 14:37

Navy chief Sunil Lanba says Tejas LCA not up to mark, search on for another fighter jet

Read more at:
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... aign=cppst

"The MiG-29K will operate from the Vikrant (first Indian built aircraft carrier). But we also need an alternate aircraft now. We are looking for it, as the LCA is not up to the mark yet. In the present form, the LCA cannot take off with its full weapon load," said the Navy chief, adding that within the next five years a new fighter aircraft will be needed for carrier operations.

"There has been no intrusion by Chinese vessels in Indian territorial waters in Andaman and Nicobar Islands. But we have our eyes on them (Chinese Navy)," said Lanba.

Meanwhile, the Navy chief said the force is planning to acquire autonomous sub-surface assets and ship-based Unmanned Aerial Vehicles (UAVs).

On the Scorpene submarine leak, Lanba said India will setup a joint group with France. "We will see if have to make changes on the platforms. But the leaked data dates to the pre-2010 period. It does not have details on the armament. There is no critical leak," he said, adding additional submarines are also being looked at.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 02 Dec 2016 14:52

https://twitter.com/SandeepUnnithan

Looks like IAC-2 (the new Viraat) will have an imported fighter.

Yes. LCA-N now effectively only a tech-demonstrator. Doesn't meet timelines.

'LCA-Navy doesn't meet our QRs as a carrier-based fighter...can't take off with full weapon, fuel load.' CNS Admiral Lanba

'China deploying subs in IOR since '13. SSN deployed, did OTR in Karachi. 6th deploymnt now,SSK'. CNS Adm Lanba

John · Post by **John** » 02 Dec 2016 18:38

^ Basically Mig-29k which comes as no real shocker. In spite of engine issues the AC has proven to be quite capable and overall with exception of single 29k lost by RN from unrelated factors (politics could have had the fighter land and refuel in Cyprus) the attrition rate has been rather low compared to J-15 or Su-33 or Rafale-M.

Suresh S · Post by **Suresh S** » 02 Dec 2016 19:20

aditya your broad generalization I happen to agree with. One Very Phamous "Journalist" and now politician name ends in O,Brien. I knew this guy a bit while growing up as teenagers in Kolkota. What is the saying once a Ga**u always a G****.

Zynda · Post by **Zynda** » 02 Dec 2016 19:51

I know the tender/RFI is for single-engined fighter, but if IN is looking for a different carrier (other than MiG aircraft) borne platform, may be it makes sense to consider F/A-18E more seriously. It could act as a common platform for both IAF & IN. Dunno what & more importantly how much of tech gems Boeing, GE & others will be willing to provide for desh, but at least with respectable numbers, the cost per plane + infra may go down. At least, USN sees some future with Hornet as compared to F-16. Certainly F414-EPE may be developed (I think current EDE is being developed with Phase-2 designated as EPE). Also podded weapons to decrease RCS was put out.

Similar argument can be made for Rafale as well but it seems like Rafale-C/D purchases may not go beyond current 36.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 02 Dec 2016 19:59

There is no significant difference between EPE or EDE in terms of development work. If the advanced work is funded by the USN both will be result from it. This is not a matter of if, but when. The US Navy will have purchased more than 700 Super Hornet and Growlers and will be operating them till well into the 2030's if not till early 2040s. They are still buying aircraft and will be doing so for a few more years. Depending upon how a few strategic capability assessments pan out over the next few months the US Navy could order up to 45 more EA-18G's alone so there is plenty of NEED to enhance capability when it comes to engines and other areas on these aircraft. CFT's are now assured since Kuwait is paying for their integration and flight testing but they are virtually guaranteed on the Growler fleet which itself could push to 205 so plenty of scale to improve performance through CFT and more efficient engines. I'd think of this benefit more to the LCA and AMCA than to acquire a new type just for this reason.

khan · Post by **khan** » 02 Dec 2016 20:12

Cosmo_R wrote:Excerpted from WSJ

Setbacks for New Delhi’s first homemade aircraft carrier slow efforts to face China on high seas

NEW DELHI—When top American naval engineers recently inspected India’s first locally made aircraft carrier they expected to find a near battle-ready ship set to help counter China’s growing sway in the Indian Ocean.

Instead, they discovered the carrier wouldn’t be operational for up to a decade and other shortcomings: no small missile system to defend itself, a limited ability to launch sorties and no defined strategy for how to use the ship in combat. The findings alarmed U.S. officials hoping to enlist India as a bulwark against China, people close to the meeting said.
Related

“China’s navy will be the biggest in the world soon, and they’re definitely eyeing the Indian Ocean with ports planned in Sri Lanka and Bangladesh,” said retired Admiral Arun Prakash, the former commander of India’s navy. “The Indian navy is concerned about this.”

The February carrier inspection, in the port of Kochi, formed part of U.S. plans to share aircraft carrier technology with India. Indian naval officials followed up with a tour of an American shipbuilding yard in Virginia and strategy briefings at the Pentagon in September, the people close to the meetings said.

http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-effort- ... 1480501812

I think the USN reaction can be chalked down to a difference in mentality.

They are bracing for a South China Sea confrontation in the next 1-5 years. Indian Navy is preparing for a confrontation in 5-10 years.

So, both sides have different expectations about what "adequate" preparedness is. I just hope the Indian industry can deliver in the expected 5-10 years and this drive to indiginze doesn't compromise the mission.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 03 Dec 2016 05:18

India Navy keeping its powder dry, confident of prevailing over China
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 753696.cms

"Chinese submarines usually come on 90-day deployments to the IOR, with an OTR at Karachi after 45 days or so. But they have to surface while crossing the Malacca, Sunda or Lombox Straits since the waters there are not deep enough," said a senior officer.

ShauryaT · Post by **ShauryaT** » 03 Dec 2016 07:14

The CNS has said nothing alarming. It is up to ADA/HAL/MoD to get their act together and deliver NLCA, which was always to be Mk II (414 / higher thrust engine) only with Mk I as a TD. It is right of him to put these folks on notice.

sarabpal.s · Post by **sarabpal.s** » 03 Dec 2016 10:09

LCA hammering and sales pitch for F18s in News is basically a hit job start with Indian reporter's buffet tour of Boeing than comes the news of US hammering VIKRANT now newspaper clearly choose Selective word out naval chief statement which say "LCA not yet ready" it is warning to ADA hasten thing up, but import lobby pushed selective phrase in public that LCA is doomed.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 03 Dec 2016 11:06

Indeed the death of Tejas in Naval and IAF variant is directly propotional to the import of fighters from abroad , The faster Tejas dies or gets limited in scope and number the better would it be for import lobby to order more fighter mourning over Tejas death.

We see how it started with IAF Tejas and now this has got to Naval one , The numbers are drastically cut and perception of failure is propogated

prashanth · Post by **prashanth** » 03 Dec 2016 19:19

khan wrote:Cosmo_R wrote:
Excerpted from WSJ

Setbacks for New Delhi’s first homemade aircraft carrier slow efforts to face China on high seas

http://www.wsj.com/articles/u-s-effort- ... 1480501812

What is the idea being conveyed by this article? That INS Vikrant has to do more to catch up with the General Ford class?

Instead, they discovered the carrier wouldn’t be operational for up to a decade

First home-built ship of this kind. IN is being cautious. Not surprising.

.. and other shortcomings: no small missile system to defend itself,

Wasn't this a known shortcoming, given the relatively smaller tonnage of IAC? I remember reading in the Vikrant thread that fleet defence is assigned to other ship(s) and subs in the carrier battle group.

..a limited ability to launch sorties

Another known shortcoming of STOBAR carriers. Hopefully solved if IN can purchase steam catapault/EMALS for the next carrier.

and no defined strategy for how to use the ship in combat

This is hard to believe. IN has had carrier experience for several decades and has used it in wars as well. The same cannot be said of China.

The findings alarmed U.S. officials hoping to enlist India as a bulwark against China, people close to the meeting said.

This statement somewhat reveals the intent. Well, if critical technologies such as n propulsion and CATOBAR are offered (with no strings attached and at reasonable price) to India, the purpose is served well.

Subdas · Post by **Subdas** » 03 Dec 2016 21:01

The comment that poor quality of work in case a jurnors is because they get poor quality talent ( read humanity ) is utter bs. we see the same poor quality in science fields specially in IT, all over the place in India. The reason is simple. Lack of pride in your work. workers take their work "chalta-hai" approach.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 03 Dec 2016 21:18

MOD PRESS

Opening remarks of Admiral Sunil Lanba PVSM,AVSM,ADC Chief of the Naval staff during Annual Navy Day press conference - 02 dec 2016

1. It is my privilege this morning to welcome all of you to this year’s Navy Week media interaction. The Indian Navy appreciates the role that our media plays in keeping the public informed on military and naval matters of national importance.

2. I thank all sections of the media for this significant contribution and acknowledge that media is indeed our ‘fourth estate’ and a force multiplier for our nation.

3. Media professionals and friends! You are well aware of the security scenario in our immediate neighbourhood today. Even as we are assembled here in these peaceful environs of Delhi, there are thousands of valiant soldiers, sailors and air warriors who are standing guard on glaciers, mountains, deserts, plains, and patrolling our seas and our national air-space, for our nation’s security and ensure territorial integrity.

4. In light of the prevailing security scenario, the Indian Navy has holistically reviewed its deployment philosophy to proactively deter any menace that may threaten our sovereignty. Even as of today, the Indian Navy has over 40 ships, 04 submarines, and 12 aircraft deployed in waters near and far around the Indian peninsular and island territories. The operational philosophy, war-fighting capabilities and combat tactics of both our Fleets have also been tested recently through a series of sea exercises.

5. While on one hand, it is Indian Navy’s prime responsibility to safeguard our national maritime interests, we also remain acutely aware of our duty to shape a favourable and positive maritime environment in the Indian Ocean Region, in pursuance of our national foreign policy initiatives.

6. Towards this end, our ships have established a wide operational footprint carrying the nation’s Tri colour across the Indian Ocean Region, and even beyond over the last year.

7. Our diverse missions in far-flung seas include hydrographic surveys by Darshak around Tanzania and Mauritius, anti-piracy patrols by Frigates and Offshore Patrol Vessels in the Gulf of Aden, environment rehabilitation support to Fiji and participation in International Fleet Review at New Zealand by Sumitra.

8. Our core naval engagements have included exercises by Western Fleet ships with navies in the Persian Gulf, East Africa and IOR island nations, and by Eastern Fleet ships in the Western Pacific including participation in the multi-national exercise RIMPAC at Hawaii.

9. Notwithstanding these distant deployments, the Indian Navy has accorded the highest priority to India’s neighbourhood in keeping with our Government’s ‘neighbourhood first’ policy. Our ships have visited various ports and engaged with navies of countries in the Bay of Bengal, Southeast Asia, Sri Lanka and Maldives in 2016.

10. The Indian Navy’s endeavour to promote maritime partnerships for common benefit of the global communitywas achieved with tremendous success during the International Fleet Review at Visakhapatnam in February this year. This event of national significance enabled us to bring diverse nations on a common platform to engage meaningfully for securing the maritime domain.

11. The Navy has also advanced its capacity building and capability enhancement initiatives with navies and maritime security agencies this year. We have trained almost 1,000 personnel from over 40 navies in our training establishments, continued to deploy our ships and aircraft for EEZ patrols off Maldives, Seychelles and Mauritius, and provisioned ships, aircraft, helicopters and simulators, to friendly regional navies. Herein, I must highlight that our Advanced Light Helicopter deployed to Maldives with our crew, has undertaken multiple missions, including medical evacuations and Search and Rescue in Maldives.

12. Ladies and Gentlemen, you would appreciate that these endeavours of the Indian Navy complement and strengthen our Government’s policy initiatives, including SAGAR, Mausam, Sagarmala and promotion of Blue Economy.

13. Our proactive engagement policy is resulting in India emerging as the first port of call and a Net Maritime Security Providerfor countries in the Indian Ocean Region. In many ways, these initiatives set the course for India’s maritime resurgence in the 21st Century, and the Indian Navy is determined to carry them forward with due vigour and focus.

14. Our growing national security needs dictate that we embrace jointness and respond more effectively in a composite manner to address present and future challenges. With this foundational principle, the Indian Navy, along with the Indian Army and the Indian Air Force, has conducted series of joint exercises this year, involving several aircraft from the IAF as well as Indian Army units.

15. The three services also conducted the first series of three Joint Disaster Relief exercises at Guwahati, Visakhapatnam, and Bhuj this year. These joint HADR exercises have accrued significant benefits and have highlighted important areas that need attention for improving our national HADR efforts.

16. As far as Coastal Security is concerned, with support from the National Committee for Strengthening Maritime and Coastal Security (NCSMCS), we have brought multiple agencies of the government together. This has enabled consolidation of our combined capabilities. Consequently, our operational readiness to secure our coastal and offshore regions has significantly improved.

17. Ladies and Gentlemen, while the Indian Navy remains ready, prepared and vigilant to meet challenges each day, we are also constantly reassessing our present capabilities and emerging threats to develop our perspective plans for the future.

18. The year 2016 has witnessed significant capability accretion through induction of a number of state-of-the-art combat platforms into our force. These include the Anti-Submarine Warfare corvette, Kadmatt, which has more than 90% indigenous content, the Water Jet Fast Attack Craft, Tihayu and several Fast Interceptor Craft.

19. The commissioning of Chennai, the third ship of Kolkata Class last month, was an important milestone in our indigenous shipbuilding programme. We also launched the second ship of the P15B destroyers ‘Mormugao’, this year.The impending inductions of ASWCorvette Kiltan, Water Jet FACs and Landing Craft Utility ships will further boost our combat potential.

20. The construction of our first Indigenous Aircraft Carrier Vikrantis progressing well at Kochi. We are also finalising our plans and design for our next Indigenous Aircraft Carrier and moving to seeks Government’s approval for the project.

21. Ladies and Gentlemen, the Indian Navy’s Submarine Arm is completing 50 years of Glorious Service next year on the
08th of December.On this day in 1967, the first Indian Submarine Kalvari was commissioned. To commemorate this landmark year, the Indian Navy is celebrating 2017 as the ‘Year of the Submarine Arm’, with many events scheduled all over the country.

22. This year would also witness the reincarnation of the new Kalvari which will be commissioned shortly. To retain a credible underwater edge and combat worthiness of our existing submarines, we have also commenced their
medium-refit-cum-life-certification (Mid-Life Upgrade). Having said so, I am sure you would understand that the subject of strategic platforms would not be discussedthis afternoon for national-security reasons.

23. In order to enhance our Navy’s capability to keep India’s maritime areas under constant surveillance, we have concluded the contract for purchase of four additional
P8I aircraft. Simultaneously, the contract for upgradation of Ka-28 helicopters has been concluded which will give a boost to our integral aviation capability. Procurement cases for other aircraft, including Dorniers, multi-role and utility helicopters, and Unmanned Aerial Vehicles are being actively pursued by the Navy.

24. A key focus area for the Indian Navy this year has been on ensuring full operational and combat readiness of our platforms through comprehensive maintenance and quality upkeep of our ships, submarines and aircraft. In this regard, the successful and timely completion of Vikramaditya’s refit, including her maiden docking at Cochin Shipyard, was a momentous achievement. This maiden feat has enhanced our collective confidence in indigenous capability to maintain and build complex platforms.

25. Members of the media and friends! Our Navy’s indigenous ship and submarine building programmes, as also ambitious aircraft and helicopter induction plans, are in complete synergywith our Government’s Make in Indiainitiative. The Indian Navy seeks to optimise every resource, nurture innovation and maximise indigenisation to generate credible combat power. We are confident that we will further enhance our high degree of self-reliance in the years to come.

26. Having spoken of material issues, I shall now speak of our Navy’s most important and greatest asset, i.e. our men and women in white and our civilian work force. Ladies and Gentlemen, the strength of the Armed Forces lies in motivated, well-trained and professional men and women.

27. Realising fully well that training is the bedrock of any force we are augmenting the training capacities of our officer and sailor training establishments at Ezhimala and Chilka. Providing quality accommodation and support facilities are important measures for our officers and sailors, and these remain high in the Navy’s priority.

28. Skill-mapping of retiring sailors and certification during in-service training are important initiatives by the Indian Navy in pursuance of the Government’s Skill India mission. This initiative seeks to nurture the intrinsic talent of our personnel and has received significant appreciation, both from within and outside the Navy. The pilot batch of 70 sailors, trained in collaboration with the National Skill Development Corporation, was awarded Skill Certificates by the Hon’ble Raksha Mantri & Minister of Skill Development and Entrepreneurship last month. All 70 of these sailors have already secured their placement in companies of repute.

29. The Navy’s growth is hinged on development of effective leadership at all levels and generationof highly motivated and skilled professionals. These together make the Navy an efficient, happy and combat ready force. In this regard, the Navy’s dedicated focus has been towards better grooming of young officers. The Navy is also exploring options for greater opportunities and enhanced role for women officers in the Indian Navy. This is being progressed with due consideration and deliberation over multifarious factors that impact their employment.

30. Ladies and Gentlemen, we celebrate the 4th of December as the Navy Day to commemorate the Indian Navy’s invaluable contribution in achieving victory at sea during the 1971 conflict. On this day, we pay homage to our martyrs and remember the sacrifices of our sailors, veterans and war widows.

31. This year, six of our personnel were honoured with Naosena Medal for exhibiting exceptional gallantry and courage, in the face of daunting challenges. On the occasion of Navy Day, I salute them and their families, for their contributions and sacrifices,in service of our nation.

32. On behalf of the gallant men and women of the Indian Navy, I take this opportunity to reiterate our Navy’s steadfast resolve to remain the bulwark against every form of maritime threat or challenge.

33. The Indian Navy is capable and ready to safeguard our national maritime interests anytime, anywhere, every-time. As a professional force, YOURNavy has overcome all challenges at sea with utmost professionalism in the past. I assure the citizens of our great nation that the Indian Navy willcontinue to strive for excellence to anchor our nation’s stability, security, well-being and prosperity, in future as well.

34. On behalf of the Indian Navy, I wish all of you and the people of our country, warm greetings and good wishes on the occasion of Navy Day.

35. Thank You. Jai Hind.

John · Post by **John** » 03 Dec 2016 21:29

Considering Queen Elizabeth has only phalanx gun system for point defense not sure IAC having no missile system is valid ( it will have both so ak 630 and Oto SR). Also it was supposed to be fitted with Barak 8 after commission,

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 04 Dec 2016 08:45

Urgent need for India to switch from ships to submarines; here’s why
http://www.financialexpress.com/opinion ... hy/462940/

arun · Post by **arun** » 04 Dec 2016 10:06

Phase IIA of the INS Kadamba aka Karwar Naval Base aka Project Sea Bird to commence next year. A Naval Air Station and 8 more jetties is planned to come up under Phase IIA expansion:

Seabird project expansion to commence next year

By Express News Service | Published: 04th December 2016 05:37 AM |

Last Updated: 04th December 2016 05:37 AM

KARWAR: The Karwar Naval Base will be the largest naval base in Asia by 2021 and a sum of Rs 19,600 crore has been kept aside for the second phase of its development, said Rear Admiral K J Kumar, VSM, Flag Officer Karnataka Naval Area.

Addressing the media on board of INS Aditya at Karwar base on Saturday, he said phase IIA work of the Seabird Project is expected to commence in Karwar next year and the integrated base will be completed by 2021 or 2022.

Under the second phase of development, eight more operational jetties will be developed. Karwar will be the station for more Naval ships and a lot of submarines will operate from here. The Naval air station will also be built at the base and it will be helpful to increase logistics transportation by helicopters and medium aircraft, he added. …………………

From New Indian Express:

Clicky

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 04 Dec 2016 10:14

There are four OTO 76 guns at the edges and two LRSAM VLS to forward right and rear left.