India-US relations: News and Discussions III

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Gus
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Post by Gus »

Election is over.

Why is there so much angst?

Hitesh, Gus, Arun, Yayvar each get one post to explain.
I can't and won't speak for others.

When it comes to me, can you please stop asking me the 'can you stop beating your wife' type questions. My "angst" is your own imagination. How can I answer or explain that?

If you have not been eager to club all contrary opinions across the spectrum into one single point of "angst", then maybe you would not be asking me that question.

I will give you one example. Dipanker had several posts on electoral college vs popular vote and I posted this -

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=7243&p=2071126&hili ... l#p2071112
electoral system ensures that the winning candidate has a broad based support from more states.

if it was only popular vote, then candidates would be polarized more in trying to extract all votes out of some states...and this would pit states against states..a civil war like situation.

trump won not only with 'red states'...he did flip some blue leaning states and that is credit to him and gives his presidency a legitimacy that he will not have if he squeezed some more votes out of deep south and got the popular vote method to presidency.
Do you see any angst there? I don't. I've clearly moved on from elections. As said before, I ordered my crow soup and drank it and I don't post on that topic anymore, even in the recount circus going on. But other postors have (UB, for ex) keep posting on that back and forth with Dipanker - despite your specific warning, but you choose to pick on me for reasons I don't understand.

I mostly call out some stuff..like for ex the Manafort thing. Before election, concerns about him were dismissed as "he is just a pro". Now he is highlighted as a concern by the same people who were dismissive before. Asking clarification of that gets me branded as a paki. And having "angst" by you.

You've also posted once that "Gus, you are going strong even after proven wrong". I really do not get that. Am I to not post anything on this topic because I thought Trump would lose and he did not? Is that the yardstick to posting rights in this forum? That predictions and observations should be right or else be banished from having opinions. Aren't arguments to be looked at its own merit, instead of poster's authority or history? Surely you are aware of logical fallacies and of your own postings in the past where you have pushed for discussion of ideas than people.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Post by LokeshC »

habal wrote:Trump resembles Modi when he says things like this

Trump:Softbank of Japan to invest $50 billion in US, and create 50,000 jobs.

http://www.newsmax.com/t/newsmax/articl ... plate-Main
Sorry habal garu. Trump is no Modi. I would rather scrub my brain with clorox than consider any semblance of an equivalence.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Post by hnair »

Gus, it is not just Ramanaji's view that you were trolling and baiting, since the US elections. That is not fun for forum admins as is your argument "UB did that too" . Report UB's posts, not respond in kind and then later, blame admins for asking what is going on.

Do consider taking a break from this thread and continue posting in other threads
Gus
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Post by Gus »

ok. last thought - the boundary lines are not clear when some posts are allowed and some posts are picked as trolling and all contrary opinions are bundled into a single point. You cannot let some things slide for long and then wield hammer selectively. And I seriously protest the 'you are paki' stuff.

over and out. of this thread and that other one.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Post by Sachin »

US lawmakers concerned over curb on Christian charity in India
Royce joined by other lawmakers and representations of human rights bodies and Compassion International (CI) -- the Christian charity organisation which is often accused of being engaged in religious conversions in India -- rued that the recent effort to regulate foreign funding and enforce taxation laws has made it impossible for them to carry out work among poor children in India.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Post by Philip »

Great news from Trump.But this will not please powerful vested interests in the US Mil-Ind. complex and the Washington establishment. Early days yet. With ISIS firmly in his sights instead of "regime change",one can expect far more international cooperation with the US from other nations like Russia,etc.Trump should build up an international consensus based upon a firm UNSC resolution to defeat ISIS and other Islamic terror groups like the Haqqanis,and P{aki-based terror entities waging war against India. Pak has recd. in recent times,since 2001, an astonishing $33-35B in aid in various forms from the US in various forms including mil aid.Hopefully under Trump,this tap will cease immediately.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/201 ... gn-regimes
Donald Trump: 'We will stop racing to topple foreign regimes'
President-elect in Fayetteville declares focus on destroying Isis, hours after Barack Obama dismissed ‘false promises’ of bombing terrorists into surrender
Donald Trump and James Mattis on stage in Fayetteville, North Carolina.
Sabrina Siddiqui, Ben Jacobs and agencies
Wednesday 7 December 2016
Donald Trump has laid out a US military policy that would avoid interventions in foreign conflicts and instead focus heavily on defeating the Islamic State militancy.

“We will stop racing to topple foreign regimes that we know nothing about, that we shouldn’t be involved with,” the president-elect said on Tuesday night in Fayetteville, near Fort Bragg military base in North Carolina.

“Instead our focus must be on defeating terrorism and destroying Isis, and we will.”

Trump’s remarks came a few hours after Barack Obama delivered what was billed as the final national security address of his presidency.

Speaking in Tampa, Florida, Obama did not mention Trump by name – but implicitly warned his successor to dispense with overheated rhetoric in favor of a nuanced approach to the war on terror, and to avoid actions that could give false legitimacy to Isis as the “vanguard of a new world order”.

Obama dismisses his security critics and urges Trump to avoid 'overreach'

Obama told a room of service members at MacDill air force base: “Rather than offer false promises that we can eliminate terrorism by dropping more bombs or deploying more and more troops or fencing ourselves off from the rest of the world, we have to take a long view of the terrorist threat, and we have to pursue a smart strategy than can be sustained.”

During the course of his campaign, Trump vowed to “bomb the shit out of” Islamic State and routinely declined to offer a counter-terrorism strategy by claiming that doing so would reveal the country’s plans before the enemy.

He also suggested terrorists were streaming across the US border disguised as refugees, and proposed aggressive policies that included a ban on all Muslim immigration to the US.

Trump, making the latest stop on a “thank you” tour of states critical to his 8 November election win, introduced his choice for defense secretary, General James Mattis, to a large crowd in Fayetteville, near the Fort Bragg military base, which has deployed soldiers to 90 countries around the world.

He vowed a strong rebuilding of the US military, which he suggested had been stretched too thin. Instead of investing in wars, he said, he would spend money to build up America’s aging roads, bridges and airports.

But he also wanted to boost spending on the military. To help pay for his buildup, Trump pledged to seek congressional approval for lifting caps on defense spending that were part of “sequestration” legislation cutting spending across the board.

“We don’t want to have a depleted military because we’re all over the place fighting in areas that we shouldn’t be fighting in. It’s not going to be depleted any longer,” he said.

Trump said any nation that shared his goals would be considered a US partner.

“We don’t forget. We want to strengthen old friendships and seek out new friendships,” he said. But the policy of “intervention and chaos” must come to an end.

While US armed forces are deployed in far-flung places around the globe, they are only involved currently in active combat in the Middle East – Iraq and Syria for the most part.

“We will build up our military not as an act of aggression, but as an act of prevention,” he said. “In short we seek peace through strength.”

Trump used similar rhetoric during the election campaign when he railed against the war in Iraq. Unusually for a Republican, Trump not only loudly expressed his dismay at George W Bush’s 2003 intervention but falsely claimed that he opposed it at the time and accused Bush of lying about the presence of weapons of mass destruction.

Trump has long expressed his skepticism about US foreign intervention in activities that he has labeled “nation building.”

He told the Guardian in October 2015: “We’re nation-building. We can’t do it. We have to build our own nation. We’re nation-building, trying to tell people who have [had] dictators or worse for centuries how to run their own countries.

Trump's conflicts of interest: a visual guide
Read more
“Assad is bad,” Trump added of the Syrian president. “Maybe these people could be worse.”

In Fayetteville, Trump did not explicitly repeat his pledge to bar Muslims from coming to the US but maintained he would “suspend immigration from regions where it cannot be safely processed”.

He described James Mattis as the right person for the job and urged Congress to approve a waiver to let him take on the civilian position of defense secretary. Under US law a military leader must be retired for seven years before becoming eligible for the post.

Taking the microphone, Mattis said: “I look forward to being the civilian leader as long as the Congress gives me the waiver and the Senate votes to consent.”

“We’re going to get you that waiver,” Trump replied, returning to the microphone. “If you don’t get that waiver there are going to be a lot of angry people.”
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Post by SSridhar »

Sachin wrote:US lawmakers concerned over curb on Christian charity in India
. . . rued that the recent effort to regulate foreign funding and enforce taxation laws has made it impossible for them to carry out work among poor children in India.
I am yet again amused by such utterly American noble thoughts. Obviously, if any country has to worry about 'poor children in India', it is India. That American gentleman can 'rue' for anything. Even I rue the fact that Compassion International is unable to remove homelessness, poverty and beggary in the US or remove ill-treatment of minorities.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Post by panduranghari »

CRS ji and Rudradev ji,
Many thanks for your replies. I shall reply in due course. I mostly concur with your assertions but I have some rejoinders which I hope would help clarify my perspective.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Post by UlanBatori »

So touching 2 c ppl remembering me,though I am not on the same conttinent as either India or Yoo Ess and haven't posted at BRF for past 2 dins. AoA!
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Post by pankajs »

SSridhar wrote:
Sachin wrote:US lawmakers concerned over curb on Christian charity in India
. . . rued that the recent effort to regulate foreign funding and enforce taxation laws has made it impossible for them to carry out work among poor children in India.
I am yet again amused by such utterly American noble thoughts. Obviously, if any country has to worry about 'poor children in India', it is India. That American gentleman can 'rue' for anything. Even I rue the fact that Compassion International is unable to remove homelessness, poverty and beggary in the US or remove ill-treatment of minorities.
There are enough children at risk in the great nation of America. Perhaps their effort is better spent looking after their own folks much nearer home. But alas it wouldn't server their purpose.

I hope someone from GOI, armed with data, asks this question privately when pressed on the issue.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Post by RajeshA »

Hitesh wrote:I have come to terms with the reality of a Trump presidency but I really can't come to terms with the fact that a majority of my brethren, my community voted overwhelming for Trump despite the very strong evidence of white supremacist support in his army of supporters and the strong influence herein. You guys complained of Huma Abedin's influence due to her background and yet you gave a free pass to white supremacists supporting and influencing Trump. That is what really gets my goat.
This made my day!

Trump''s White Supremacists attack from the front. Left''s White Supremacists do it from behind you!
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Post by Najunamar »

Pankajsji,

Agree with the strategy, but why privately? Can't it be handled publicly the same way Unkill does?
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Post by Lilo »

Talia al Ghul - while stabbing Batman from behind...
You see, it's the slow knife... the knife that takes its time, the knife that waits years without forgetting, then slips quietly between the bones... that's the knife that cuts deepest.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Post by Yayavar »

Rishi Verma wrote:Simple translation of RamanaJi request : this thread is about india-US relations. This thread is not about ppl arguing about US erection result with each other. Erection happened Hillary got screwed and Trump baby is born now why worry about erection.
Right it is not Trump rah rah or Hillary waa waa ...
And the Potus elect can be criticized and analysed on the impact on India. That shouldnt make the rah rah sad or waa waa happy...
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Post by Hitesh »

svenkat wrote:Fully support Gus on this.
So do I.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Post by ramana »

OK. Gus I am banning you for one month so you get to cool off.
Svenkat and Hitesh do you also want a breather?

----
Done. Just so you know the number of bans I had to administer can be counted on one hand.
So it hurts more me than you.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Post by ramana »

Hitesh wrote:
ramana wrote:Guys you are pilling over form the other locked thread.
I suggest stop baiting each other.

Election is over.

Why is there so much angst?

Hitesh, Gus, Arun, Yayvar each get one post to explain.

Lalmohan you don't live in US but if you feel the need go ahead.

After this no more.

Just so you all know. Indian American communities all across the US are being rent asunder by those who don't accept HRC defeat. Thanksgiving has been deplorable in many homes due to this reluctance to let go and holding grievances.
Even rioters have given up.
I have angst because the majority of Indian Americans were so shortsighted and failed to see the true threat of a Trump presidency - the rise of white supremacists/nationalist forces. I have several Indian friends who voted for Trump faced the brunt of those fear mongering hate spreading people and I had to tell them that they had to own it because they voted for Trump and paved the way for those forces to come into fore.

Trump already backtracked on many of his promises during the campaign.

Trump says whatever he thinks that you want to hear so he can get your support. Once he gets yours, he disposes of you like the same way China disposes of Pakistan whenever China gets what she wants. And we all have to pay the price for it. Clinton is manageable. Why? Because India already knew how to manage Clinton through experience. With Trump, who knows?

As for the rioters, don't bet on them giving up. They are just staying low until Trump assumes the presidency. There are already plans for a million person march on the day of the inauguration.

I have come to terms with the reality of a Trump presidency but I really can't come to terms with the fact that a majority of my brethren, my community voted overwhelming for Trump despite the very strong evidence of white supremacist support in his army of supporters and the strong influence herein. You guys complained of Huma Abedin's influence due to her background and yet you gave a free pass to white supremacists supporting and influencing Trump. That is what really gets my goat.

Hithesh thanks for speaking form the heart.
About the Indian Community its about 4 M strong. Of that about 1M would vote and most are concentrated in East Coast and California. So most likely a majority of the 1M voted for Democrats.* The minority who voted Republican were crucial.
Lower taxes (IA are highest income group so taxes are important) and promises of going after ISIS were major decisive points. Its not about supremacists.
BTW its laughable that Irish Bannon is the standard bearer for that. Till 150 years ago Irish were not considered whit by the English. It was only after the Potato famines and immigration to the US that this change occurred. In Carroll Quigley's terms its the periphery (Irish) conquering the core (Europe) via the most peripheral continent (America)!!!!

Trump if you notice says what it takes to win and acts pragmatically once he wins.


Keep your spirits.

ramana

* Am glad Kamala Harris is in Senate, Ro Khanna in Congress along with others.
Nikki Haley is UN Ambassador a Cabinet level appointment
This is a great election form Indian American view point.

Most likely 2020 0r 2024 will see Harris and Haley throwing the hat for President nominations!
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Post by SaiK »

A vote count should be enough to come to terms with anyone even if one disagrees. Now we have to deal with the winner and not the losers for your rights and freedom. What is important for India, matters most (I guess) in this Indo-US thread.

2c
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Post by A_Gupta »

General Matthis retired only 3 years ago and will need Congress to pass a waiver for him to be Secretary of Defence.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/text/10/113
U.S. Code › Title 10 › Subtitle A › Part I › Chapter 2 › § 113
(this is law in place since 1947)
A person may not be appointed as Secretary of Defense within seven years after relief from active duty as a commissioned officer of a regular component of an armed force.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Post by Rudradev »

One highly satisfying outcome of the Trump-Taipei phone call and the anti-China tweet-storm afterwards.

The genocidal war-criminal Henry Kissinger has been made to look like a prime Qtiya in front of his Pee All See clients :mrgreen:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... c2a08db609
...But Trump, evidently feeling cornered, doubled down. He unleashed a Twitter storm about China’s currency manipulation (a largely bogus charge he repeated through the campaign) and its aggressive actions in the South China Sea (a real problem requiring strong, steady U.S. leadership). An embarrassed China is sure to take countermeasures, which will further confound U.S. policy.

The episode reinforced two points about Trump: He loves to be flattered by calls from foreign leaders (including “presidents” of countries the United States doesn’t recognize). And he’s thin-skinned and reacts to criticism with the pique of an American Kim Jong Un.

Twitter amplifies Trump’s tendency for personal overreaction. In an era of nuclear weapons, this sort of undamped presidential oscillation could be seriously dangerous to global health.

To understand this China flap, try imagining it through the eyes of Henry Kissinger, the former secretary of state who created the template for modern U.S.-China relations. On Friday, he was in Beijing saying soothing things about Trump; a few hours later, the president-elect threw a stink bomb into the edifice Kissinger started building 45 years ago. :twisted:

President Xi Jinping had welcomed Kissinger on Friday as a potential intermediary with Trump. “We are now in a key moment,” Xi said. “Dr. Kissinger, I am all ears to what you have to say about the current world situation and the future growth of China-U.S. relations.” :roll:

Kissinger suggested that Trump, despite his inexperience, would be pragmatic. :oops: After his meeting with Xi, he told CNN’s Fareed Zakaria, “This president-elect, it’s the most unique that I’ve experienced in one respect: He has absolutely no baggage.” He argued that despite Trump’s inflammatory campaign positions, analysts “should not insist in nailing him to positions that he had taken in the campaign on which he doesn’t insist.”

Then — kaboom! — the Taiwan call, which raised questions about the durability of Kissinger’s 1972 Shanghai Communique that set the basic framework of the “One China” policy. :(( :(( :rotfl:
So for the moment anyway, my initial impression that the US deep state would successfully manipulate Trump's foreign policy imperatives via the career scumbag HAK seems to have been wrong.

This could still change in future, but for now, the severe loss of face to both Xi and Kissinger is highly enjoyable to watch :P
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Post by Rudradev »

However, the unfolding reality of Trump's China policy may not be as bad for Beijing as the theatrics of phone calls and twitter suggest.

http://www.salon.com/2016/12/07/iowa-go ... -to-china/
Iowa Gov. Terry Branstad chosen by Donald Trump to be ambassador to China
Branstad, in his sixth term, is the longest serving governor in U.S. history and has known Chinese President Xi Jinping for more than 30 years.

The choice of Branstad, which President-elect Donald Trump announced Wednesday at a Manhattan fundraiser, was greeted warmly by the Chinese government.

“Gov. Branstad is an old friend of the Chinese people,” China’s foreign ministry spokesman Lu Kang commented on this today at a regular briefing. “We welcome him to play a great role in promoting the development of China-U.S. relations.”

In 1985, the first-term Republican governor welcomed Xi to Iowa, then a regional governmental official on an economic trip. Xi visited Iowa 30 years later, then as president.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Post by GShankar »

Good or Bad, we need more time to evaluate. Good Today could turn out to be Bad Tomorrow and vice versa. The amount of impact of these foreign regimes (both good and bad) have reduced quite a bit due to strong leadership in home. However there is too much to do and too little time.

My biggest concern at this point is - when an opportunity arises, will we be ready to act (forget identifying the opportunity and least of all creating one)?
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Post by UlanBatori »

Aha! Managed to get on free wifi at BLR!
IMO Trump tactics on PRC are so far exquisite. As for WaPo brilliantly concluding that "trump like 2 b flattered" one can say with better evidence: WaPo writers like to far*".
Each new POTUS has had to deal with bullying by PeeAllSeee and their NoKo puppets. Remember Wrong Way Wong Wei? Dubya got biss-boor advice on how to del with that. May have led to green light for 9/11 too.
So 'Zee has just given the first sign that he can be unpredictable and not worry about Li losing face. I am sure there will be follow up aggression from PeeAllSee - VERY important that he deal with that too in UNPREDICTABLE manner.
Looks like Kissmyassinger was set up, hain? Second lesson: Lobbyists 4-hire beware.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Post by Rammpal »

GShankar wrote: when an opportunity arises, will we be ready to act (forget identifying the opportunity and least of all creating one)?
Well, without ID-ing one, we can Never know an opportunity.
Why is Creating an opportunity accorded the least importance?
Wasn't Chanakya creating these all the time, to conclude political businesses in his days ?
I feel ID-ing an opportunity as The most important aspect.
And disasters, of any kind, present the most opportunities as well.

For e.g: Indian MIC, pretty much non-existent - virgin territory with gazillion bucks worth of Opportunities in there.
What's the best way to make an in-road into it ? :wink:
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Post by GShankar »

You see, there were many opportunities given on a platter that we were not able to materialize in time. Start with P-5 seat and come to Nuclear deal with USA. We were not able to materialize on the opportunities in time.

And instead of going to 300BC, let's look at 2016 AD. Say for example as of now, there is a deal on the table to make 2nd single engine fighter or some such thing. Modi or Parrikar or someone call DT's team and tell them that they are open to consider purchasing 50% of the items OTS if the other 50% are for make in india. To be honest I don't know for a fact that no one has reached out but if Taiwan can call and make such headlines, we should be introducing that bugti and other guys to DT and say you have a new route to Afghanistan and impress them on the benefits with good relationship with Iran and what not.

Indian MIC - so what is being done to get those gazillion buck worth of opportunities? You are saying the same thing I am saying just with a question mark.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Post by NRao »

Interesting times ahead.
"India's very reluctant to be seen as too close to the United States, but the Pentagon is very bullish on this relationship," said Shane Mason, a research associate at the Stimson Center in Washington.

It is also a favored initiative of Carter, who established a special cell within the Pentagon last year to promote cooperation with India.

"There's no question about where the United States-India relationship is going," Carter said on Friday, at a talk at the Council on Foreign Relations in New York. "We can control and influence the pace, and I want to do that."

The U.S. military has made clear it would like to do more with India, especially in countering China's moves.

Last month, Admiral Harry Harris, the commander of U.S. Pacific Command, said the United States wanted to expand the naval exercises it held with India each year into joint operations across the Asia-Pacific.

But India, which has never carried out joint patrols with another country, said there were no such plans.
http://mobile.reuters.com/article/idUSKCN0X70BX
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Post by Mort Walker »

Any insight as to whom DT will appoint as US ambassador to India, or will that be very very after thought or no though by having no US ambassador to India for the foreseeable future? Has Dick Varma submitted his resignation or would he like to stay on?
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Post by NRao »

habal
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Post by habal »

chewing
Was Haley nominated so that when India complains about an attack on Iran, Trump will have someone well-suited to defend this idea to the Indians? If Haley grew up watching Bollywood films at home, she probably speaks passable Hindi, not to mention outstanding Punjabi.

India has been a steadfast U.S. ally in recent years in countering Islamic extremism, particularly emanating from Pakistan.
&

Haley is going to be Trump's international mouthpiece. And there's no American politician better equipped to sell war on Iran to the people of India.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Post by pankajs »

It seems Indian are the only folks on the planet who are important enough to need a dedicated convincer-in-chief.

Sigh! I wish it were true.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Post by Rammpal »

habal wrote:chewing
Was Haley nominated so that when India complains about an attack on Iran, Trump will have someone well-suited to defend this idea to the Indians? If Haley grew up watching Bollywood films at home, she probably speaks passable Hindi, not to mention outstanding Punjabi.

India has been a steadfast U.S. ally in recent years in countering Islamic extremism, particularly emanating from Pakistan.
&

Haley is going to be Trump's international mouthpiece. And there's no American politician better equipped to sell war on Iran to the people of India.
Trump/US needs Indian approval to nuke Iran now ?!! :shock:
i.e.: quite a bit of effort in that direction then, i.e.: Nikki wasn't selected for her talent alone.
Is this like Nuke-Iran plan was passed, and Nikki was shortlisted as candidate for its psy-ops - all pre-planned. :!:
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Post by Kashi »

So a "probably outstanding Punjabi-speaking" Haley will be well-suited to "convince" a Guajarati/Hindi speaking Prime minister of the nation of 1.2 billion?

What next? Appoint a "probably outstanding Cantonese and passable Mandarin speaking"Judy Chu to liaison with Eleven Jinping because she ?

Oh Amreekis
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Post by pankajs »

I think the Understanding US thread should be opened.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/won ... d-to-ring/
Donald Trump just insulted a union leader on Twitter. Then the phone started to ring.
Jones, president of the United Steelworkers Local 1999, told The Post on Tuesday that he believed Trump had lied to the Carrier workers last week when he visited the Indianapolis plant. On a makeshift stage in a conference room, Trump had applauded United Technologies, Carrier’s parent company, for cutting a deal with him and agreeing to keep 1,100 jobs that were slated to move to Mexico in America’s heartland.

Carrier, he said, had agreed to preserve 800 production jobs in Indiana. (Carrier confirmed that number.) The union leader said Trump appeared to be taking credit for rescuing 350 engineering positions that were never scheduled to leave. Five hundred and fifty of his members, he said, were still losing their jobs. And the company was still collecting millions of dollars in tax breaks.
Trump tore into this guy on twitter. Imagine a president taking on his critics individually on twitter. :rotfl:

With a president so thin skinned and the snowflake generation gearing up for battle, it will be interesting to watch from the sidelines.

As I have stated before, this president is going to be very busy on the domestic front for him to devote any time to India-pak issues.
Lilo
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Post by Lilo »

Kashi wrote:So a "probably outstanding Punjabi-speaking" Haley will be well-suited to "convince" a Guajarati/Hindi speaking Prime minister of the nation of 1.2 billion?

What next? Appoint a "probably outstanding Cantonese and passable Mandarin speaking"Judy Chu to liaison with Eleven Jinping because she ?

Oh Amreekis
^
An example of dumbing down of the narrative - as practiced reflexively by the MSM of massa.
Opinionmakers in massa had in the past openly advocated to the benefits of such dumbing down wrt foreign affairs - claiming that since massa is exceptional, therefore massans have the exceptional right to be self-absorbed while giving(or knowing) jackshit about the rest of the world.

Dumbing down helped for a long time as avg Joe was ever ready to support or be recruited into the next expeditionary war massa led into some foreign "shithole" for some globalist objective - without asking too many questions too soon.

Now with the advent of the social media - this dumbing down process is curtailed & we are beginning to get nuanced reactions to dumbed down narrative.

Snowden like responses will be seen with greater frequency.IMO.

In India too such dumbing down efforts were led by MUTU rNDTVs since a decade with headlines like "Yay! 1st Indian origin CEO/astronaut/congresswoman/secretary/prosecutor/google made an india specific doodle" & other dime a dozen "yay! massa threw a bone" farticles.

But i think they are too late to have any lasting effect in this age of social media.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Post by SSridhar »

U.S. lawmakers urge India to ease curbs on Christian charity - VARGHESE K. GEORGE, The Hindu
U.S lawmakers from Republican and Democratic parties urged the government to ease strictures on American Christian charity Compassion International (CI), even as the stand-off between the US and India over the Colorado-based NGO that has worked in India since 1968, continued. According to the NGO’s counsel at a Foreign Affairs Committee hearing, Compassion International will shut its India operations “within three weeks” if the Home Ministry (MHA) doesn’t lift funding restrictions, which would put “145,000 Indian children” in peril, and denied it was involved in conversions.

On Tuesday, the Committee met in Washington for a session titled, “American Compassion in India: Government Obstacles”, hearing testimonies critical of the MHA actions from Compassion International and Human Rights Watch.

Republican Chairman Ed Royce began the hearing by praising PM Modi for his vision, but then went on to blame the “Indian bureaucracy” for being “dogmatic.” “We have spent nine months and hundreds of hours dealing with the Indian bureaucracy on this, and it looks like the bureaucracy is trying to run out the clock,” Mr. Royce said.

Mr. Royce, who is also the head of the India Caucus, said that he and Secretary of State John Kerry had been negotiating the issue of Compassion International with Indian officials. In August, The Hindu had reported that Mr. Kerry had even raised the NGO’s treatment with External Affairs Minister Sushma Swaraj during their Strategic Dialogue in Delhi, an unusual escalation in US expressing concerns on the issue. Subsequently, the government had agreed to lift funding restrictions on 10 of about 350 NGOs that Compassion wants to fund.

Mr. Royce said it was a “rumour” and a “myth” that CI was involved in conversions, adding that he had a personal interest in the matter as his Chief of Staff Amy Porter was a donor to children helped by the NGO. “Now, Amy and thousands of other American families are being obstructed from supporting these children,” Mr. Royce said.

Sources told The Hindu that the NGO and the US Embassy have written another letter to the MHA demanding “proof” that NGOs funded by Compassion International were involved in Christian conversions. In the letter Compassion International asked for evidence of the “number of people who converted to Christianity with the help of foreign funds sent by them”, a senior government official said.


The Hindu spoke to Indian and US officials in Delhi and Washington on the issue. While the MEA declined comment, an official said the high profile Congressional hearing was “avoidable” and the witnesses misrepresented several facts pertaining to the situation. Of a total of 3 million NGOs in India, “There are more than 30,000 NGOs that have FCRA clearance, and only 20 of them are in the prior clearance category. To portray this as a clampdown on civil society is a misrepresentation of facts,” he said.

The hearing also included critical comments on issues other than the Compassion issue. Referring to the arrest of JNU Student leader Kanhaiya Kumar earlier this year for a speech, Democrat Eliot L. Engel, Ranking Member of the Committee, and another old-India hand said, “it’s troubling that a country with such a long tradition of an empowered and active civil society might be going down this path.” Others at the hearing brought up issues over Greenpeace, National Endowment for Democracy and Ford Foundation, and what Human Rights Watch official John Sifton referred to as “attacks on Christians” and the 2002 Gujarat riots in India.

Striking a conciliatory note, Stephen Oakley, an official of CI, told the Committee that it was willing to work with the Indian government to address concerns regarding conversions. {I don't understand this bit. If it has refuted the conversion theory totally, what is there to address concerns?} Mr. Oakley said CI would be forced to stop its activities in the next few weeks, if restrictions on transferring funds to them are not lifted. In February 2016, India made it mandatory for CI to obtain prior permission before transferring funds to local groups, after security agencies concluded that it was supporting religious conversions.
pankajs
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Post by pankajs »

What this means is that communication between the India and US has broken down and the US is trying public diplomacy to pressure India/Modi. Blame the bureaucracy is the last but one trick. Next attack will be full frontal directed at BJP/Modi.

Lets wait .... If the THREE week bit is closer to the truth then we will know by end of Jan 2017 at max the fate of CI.

BTW, did I get it right that "Christian Compassion" is "American Compassion" as implied by the title of the Session? I would offer the PM's fund as the destination for their compassion if they truly are willing to work with GOI.

Another interesting bit is that fewer Indians are going over to the US to dump on India/Modi these days. Earlier all such panels at least had someone from India not just a PIO.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Post by A_Gupta »

This following was expressed eloquently on a fictional TV show, but from the point of view of American minorities, "America is a country where we are always greater than our past". (This is true from women's point of view also.) From slavery, only white males having the franchise at the founding, slowly and painfully, and after massive destruction of the aboriginal peoples, the nation went through ending slavery, ending segregation, expanding the franchise, giving non-whites citizenship; and so on. This is the general view of the progressive white as well. There is a belief in progress and "America is a country where we are always greater than our past".

The opposite view is "Make America Great Again".
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Post by Lalmohan »

trump may not bother much with india, may not have time as others have pointed out
but mikey pencil boy... him of the Christian radio talk show host dins, him of the evangelical bent...
what does he have to say about that vast dark land of harvestable heathen souls...?
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Post by panduranghari »

Rudradev ji AND CRS ji,

Many thanks for your earlier replies. I am sorry I could not reply sooner. May be the thread has moved too ahead but I wanted to give a perspective nevertheless.

I had an opportunity to read the links you posted and I can see where you both are coming from.

But like anything I prefer not to take things on a standalone basis. While many on the forum were and still are openly anti-trump AND pro-hillary for their own reasons. You both have not taken pro or against any candidate position which I respect.

Michael Steinhardt coined the term, and he said, “All of our big returns in life came from taking a variant perception, which is a materially different view than the consensus, because if it’s consensus it’s unlikely to happen.” So you have taken a materially different view and it’s not necessarily contrarian for contrarian sake, but when something becomes a broad consensus, you take a variant perception and you bet on the unexpected.

I used Nixon as a benchmark because he was happy to let million Hindus die in now Bangladesh. While other presidents since have not been any better, if there was anyone more hostile to India it was Nixon. He was assisted by his Cardinal Richelieu 'Kissinger' who opened up China for the US and thus started the idea of G2. The US deep state would have hoped China acts like its munna 'Pakistan' but it has not really worked out exactly. Though the visible shenanigans are like Elephants teeth. While every US president from Carter onwards have made noise about normalising Taiwan relations, all within the 1st year, have reneged and gone with the establishment guidelines of engaging in 'One China' policy.

Is Trump taking an alternative approach? Perhaps he is, perhaps he is not. Too soon to comment.

If his advisors are smart, they probably can sense the 'Westphalian' arrangement is breaking down. Europe has already more or less given up- Brexit proved it and Italy is following through with the same disruptive game plan'. The people are driving this and its the people who drove Trump into the WH. That he wont keep his promises to the rednecks is guaranteed. But he is possibly opening up avenues for India to exploit.

While Trump himself has expressed disgust at Chinese business practices, he along with his friend Robert Kiyosaki, have lost money in China big time and they never went back in. For Trump China is a loose-loose.

Will Mattis et al open up India to Trump (against China) like Kissinger did to China (against USSR). Dont know.

But I am willing to take a 'Variant Perception' with this. Who knows we might be in for a surprise.
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Re: India-US relations: News and Discussions III

Post by Lalmohan »

the big surprise might be a shooting war with china with Russia goading from the side-lines
hows that for a contrarian view?
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