Artillery: News & Discussion

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 08 Dec 2016 08:33

abhik wrote:And I suppose the deal to import/screwdriver 800 mounted and 1000+ towed artillery will be finally signed, just before Dhanush-52, ATAGS and Bharat Forge 52 are ready to be inducted after jumping through n hoops.

That sinking feeling when you know that is possible in entirety. Let's just say whatever is the opposite of amen for this.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 11 Dec 2016 19:23

http://m.firstpost.com/india/indian-arm ... 44102.html

We seem to have missed this fantastic news.

As per the attached link, 3rd and 4th Pinaka Regiments have been cleared by CCS while further six regiments have been given OK by Defence Acquisition Council (DAC). So, we've now clarity on ten Pinaka Regiments!

The news also mentions that IA is looking at 22 Pinaka Regiments in total.

Next twelve regiments will be of Mk2 variety with 70 km range.

rakall · Post by **rakall** » 11 Dec 2016 22:31

Thakur_B wrote:
Rishi Verma wrote:Too bad the Army has only ordered 116 Dhanush given the improvements. DRDO 155/52 ATGS seems like another science project with no set completion date.

ATAGS trials start early next year. If things go right, possible induction from 2020.

Remember the ATAGS trials next year are only development trials.. Quite some time before they are offered for user evaluation trials..
then follows various rounds of trials.. so much time to go..

If Dhanush clears final induction trials without glitches, then the total order for Dhanush will go upto 414.
At a max rate of 50 per year, 8years for full induction.. So ATAGS induction will be after 2024 only..

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 12 Dec 2016 11:24

What is happening on the artillery scene, except the rate of production of Dhanush, is the ideal scenario which addresses concerns of the all parties - R&D establishment and User.

Dhanush manufacture and 130mm upgrade gives impetus to much needed modernization in the artillery stream. 414 guns represents about 22 artillery regiments. Add to it the M-46 upgrade (300 guns) and you've a modernized ~38 regiments.

In the meanwhile, the ATAGS project can continue apace. It has time buffer. If it is delayed, more Dhanush or even Dhanush Mk2 (155/52) can be inducted. When ATAGS becomes available, it can start replacing the oldest guns in inventory by then.

PS: Hope and pray we junk import of Mounted Gun System (MGS) - With Dhanush coming on-line, it should be modified for mounting on 6x6 truck. We should aim for commonality between these two largest components of FARP.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 12 Dec 2016 12:22

Rate of production? Look at the latest expose about T-90 prod. in the armour td.6 yr. delay supposedly becos they couldn't translate the Russian docs and drawings! This espite the fact that T-72 prod. happened earlier for almost 2000 tanks,BM<Ps,etc,and we've been manufacturing Ru aircraft for the last 50 yrs!

Perhaps the OFB,same culprits again as with the T-90s,will now say that they couldn't translate the Bofors gun plans because they were in Swedish!

If Mr.Modi and DM MP truly want to achieve the "make in India" vision come true,then they must hand over many of the DPSUs or DPSU licences to the pvt. sector for greater efficiency,lower cost ,better quality and faster rate of prod. The decision in the media to acquyire new ICVs within India,Indian designed and built is a v.laudable step.Perhaps the DM took this decision after the OFB T-90 prod. fiasco. This explains why we are yet again importing new T-90s from Russia.

sankum · Post by **sankum** » 12 Dec 2016 15:52

What is production rate required if by 2030 you want to modernise IA artillery.

Towed 155mm-1580nos @120/yr 13yrs

Mounted 155mm- 814 nos @60/yr 14yrs

SPG 155mm- 100+50=150nos @20/yr 8yrs

155mm ULH - 145nos @20/yr 7years

and we are talking of max dhanush production @ 60/year. It should be at least 120/yr.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 15 Dec 2016 06:55

Indian gun booms in world’s biggest artillery programme

At 4.30 p.m. on Tuesday, in a historic moment for India’s artillery programme, an indigenous, fully integrated, 155-millimetre artillery gun fired its first rounds of live ammunition at the Proof and Experimental Establishment (PXE) in Balasore, Odisha.

The 155-mm, 52-calibre gun, dubbed the Advanced Towed Artillery Gun System (ATAGS), has been developed by the Defence R&D Organisation (DRDO), in partnership with two private sector firms --- the Kalyani Group and Tata Power (Strategic Engineering Division) --- and the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB), which is owned by the Ministry of Defence (MoD).

Business Standard learns that Tuesday’s firing trials, and a second round of testing on Wednesday, met the specified parameters. Although extensive testing remains to be carried out in the months ahead, a project manager describes the actual firing as a “major milestone”.
...
...

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 15 Dec 2016 08:03

WTF, the gun was 52 cal. I guess the tech was at home with kalayani. But this is incredible. Now I wait for 10 years of summer winter, high alt, and submerged trials. All the while praying that the fuse works perfectly every time. So that a dud shell cannot be used to kill it.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 15 Dec 2016 11:38

http://idrw.org/drdos-advanced-towed-ar ... -milestone
DRDO’s Advanced Towed Artillery Gun System (ATAGS), achieves “major milestone”.

Army’s artillery black hole:
155-millimetre guns in the pipeline”
1,580 towed artillery guns for Rs 25,000 crore
114 Dhanush guns from Ordnance Factory Board
145 Ultralight howitzers from BAE Systems for Rs 5,000 crore
814 Mounted Gun Systems (MGS) for Rs 15,750 crore
100 Tracked Self Propelled (SP) guns
180 Wheeled Self Propelled (SP) guns
At 4.30 p.m. on Tuesday, in a historic moment for India’s artillery programme, an indigenous, fully integrated, 155-millimetre artillery gun fired its first rounds of live ammunition at the Proof and Experimental Establishment (PXE) in Balasore, Odisha. The 155-mm, 52-calibre gun, dubbed the Advanced Towed Artillery Gun System (ATAGS), has been developed by the Defence R&D Organisation (DRDO), in partnership with two private sector firms — the Kalyani Group and Tata Power (Strategic Engineering Division) — and the Ordnance Factory Board (OFB), which is owned by the Ministry of Defence (MoD). Business Standard learns that Tuesday’s firing trials, and a second round of testing on Wednesday, met the specified parameters. Although extensive testing remains to be carried out in the months ahead, a project manager describes the actual firing as a “major milestone”. The shortage of 155-mm, 52-calibre artillery is widely considered the Indian Army’s most worrying shortfall. Over the preceding 18 years, several international tenders for buying 1,580 towed guns from the international arms market have stalled.

Consequently, no new 155-mm guns have entered the army since the purchase of 410 Bofors howitzers 30 years ago. With the spectre of Bofors dogging international procurement, the DRDO charged its Pune-based Armament Research & Development Establishment (ARDE) with the ambitious ATAGS project to develop an indigenous towed gun. “In the ATAGS programme, we are developing two parallel sources to cut the risk of delays. The private sector is extensively involved under the prime minister’s “Make in India” initiative. This would allow us to open two manufacturing lines, to meet the large numbers gun requirements of the services”, said Dr S Christopher, the DRDO chairman. One gun project is being pursued by Tata Power (SED), while the other is working in parallel under the Kalyani Group. The OFB and Bharat Forge are making the barrels. Going by specifications, the ATAGS is a world-beater. Its “extended range, base-bleed” ammunition has a range of 45 kilometres — more than any 155-mm, 52 calibre gun in service. ATAGS also has an “all-electric drive”, which is more reliable than conventional hydraulic drives, and improves reaction time and accuracy. With each ATAGS likely to be priced at Rs 15-18 crore, the contract for building 1,580 towed guns would add up to more than Rs 25,000 crore.

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 15 Dec 2016 11:59

I have a gut feeling that ATAGS is going to be a huge success, seeing that Dhanush might have been the speediest acquisition in IA's history. Dhanush trials lasted just 3 years including one and half development and one and half user trials.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 15 Dec 2016 12:34

Thakur_B wrote:I have a gut feeling that ATAGS is going to be a huge success, seeing that Dhanush might have been the speediest acquisition in IA's history. Dhanush trials lasted just 3 years including one and half development and one and half user trials.

ATAGS might or might not be a success. But more than a few armies have already planned to go far beyond. Where every soldier has the potential to be an artillery system all by himself. DRDO/OFB/DPSUs etc better take note on how technology is advancing. The world aint going to wait.

Something already in use in afghanistan. Gives you an idea where world is going.

One has to just type "loitering munitions" in youtube search in order to see the light.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 15 Dec 2016 16:56

http://www.defencenews.in/article.aspx?id=159599

Indian Army is set to increase Pinaka Rocket Artillery Regiment by 10 times

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 15 Dec 2016 20:12

jamwal wrote:http://www.defencenews.in/article.aspx?id=159599

Indian Army is set to increase Pinaka Rocket Artillery Regiment by 10 times

Jingo got a throbbing erection on reading this news

Farooq · Post by **Farooq** » 15 Dec 2016 20:48

Thakur_B wrote:
jamwal wrote:http://www.defencenews.in/article.aspx?id=159599

Indian Army is set to increase Pinaka Rocket Artillery Regiment by 10 times
Jingo got a throbbing erection on reading this news

Lessons from Syria?

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 15 Dec 2016 23:38

no pictures of the ATAGS?

raj-senthil · Post by **raj-senthil** » 15 Dec 2016 23:47

From financial express

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 15 Dec 2016 23:56

The Pinaka order and ATAGS roll out shows the IA is serious now.

That picture looks like a 6" naval gun!!!

Surya · Post by **Surya** » 16 Dec 2016 00:12

the sensible thing would be to finish the plains\desert trials and start initial production and deal with mountain \cold etc later

the faster we get moving the more comfortable I feel ... all this trials make me nervous

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 16 Dec 2016 00:15

Surya wrote:the sensible thing would be to finish the plains\desert trials and start initial production and deal with mountain \cold etc later

the faster we get moving the more comfortable I feel ... all this trials make me nervous

True. The ULH from BAE with mfg facility is there for the mountains.

For once I would like the IA to move fast on the ATAGS with plains and desert trials first.

Please help realize Gen Sunderji's goals.

And would like better fuzes like GPS or laser guided rounds.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 16 Dec 2016 00:40

raj-senthil wrote:From financial express

I think I saw this picture a few months back. I remember Angad Singh asking, how come it doesn't have wheels?

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 16 Dec 2016 00:42

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 16 Dec 2016 00:55

Ajai on the latest about the ATAGS and overall artillery pipeline.
http://ajaishukla.blogspot.co.nz/2016/1 ... ggest.html

I must say this is my new Arjun Tank Thread (the artillery thread)

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 16 Dec 2016 02:07

The gun is ready for trials.. but the Gun carriage is still being worked on I guess.

I wonder if itll be a Bofors type carriage, it should be able to take the weight and the recoil.. Or a different carriage such as the one in the Turkish gun.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 16 Dec 2016 03:41

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 16 Dec 2016 03:44

I am fairly certain I saw this picture earlier too

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 16 Dec 2016 08:18

mystery photo

explanation
http://www.slideshare.net/VladZinchenko ... altimore01

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 16 Dec 2016 10:39

A Mufler for Large guns, hope they do a better job than letting too much sound from Kejriwal's mouth.

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 16 Dec 2016 12:14

Yes. It was on the US military thread.

It came up when a poster mentioned that the US army/marines were experimenting with having an entire squad equipped with sound suppressors, apparently so that the audio commands/vocal communication between the squad could be heard better.... and someone (

) tongue-firmly-in-cheek asked whether something similar was being done for the poor artillery blokes who for long have been the worst sufferers...

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 16 Dec 2016 14:01

German invention, methinks. Also the black and white German army cross on turret. I suppose it's used just for testing purposes, wouldn't expect it to be very useful in a battlefield.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 16 Dec 2016 14:06

yes its just a test rig for the panzerhaubitze 2000 -perhaps camps and other populated areas are close by. artillery firing at close range really exerts a thump on the chest.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 16 Dec 2016 16:37

Surya wrote:the sensible thing would be to finish the plains\desert trials and start initial production and deal with mountain \cold etc later. the faster we get moving the more comfortable I feel ... all this trials make me nervous

Surya, the Dhanush induction has been a completely new paradigm for induction of a weapon system as far as IA is concerned. IA worked very closely with the developer to ensure quick feedback and rectification.

First three guns from user trials were inducted into an artillery regiment for this purpose - this was followed by induction of first three guns from production line. All six guns are being used by a designated artillery regiment.

All this happened because of successive DG Artillery backed by COAS going all out to get the gun inducted. Only the production quality at OFB remains to be seen.

Rest assured, I feel we've turned a corner in Artillery across the entire spectrum like Radars.

Dhanush, Dhanush-2, ATAGS (which IMO will become excellent template for DRDO+private sector partnership), Pinaka, Pinaka-2, Prahaar, Brahmos. The whole gamut is going to be home grown.

Hope we scrap the Mounted Gun System (MGS) tender and adapt Dhanush for the role; an ATAGS based MGS can follow later.

Now to get the production of ammunition in place.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 16 Dec 2016 18:17

jamwal wrote:German invention, methinks. Also the black and white German army cross on turret. I suppose it's used just for testing purposes, wouldn't expect it to be very useful in a battlefield.

Singha's explanatory link says that it is for testing ranges so that sound does not carry too far.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 16 Dec 2016 21:44

looking at footage of M777 and Caesar howitzers being fired from camp qayarrah into Mosul, the amt of dust kicked up is terrible and surely a health hazard to the crewmen unless they wear some pro level masks and eye gear apart from usual ear mufflers.

not sure anything can be done about it.

one cheap desi solution implemented daily near my apartment is have a tractor dragging a water tank and spraying water along the dusty road. so there spray it around the firing position.

"deep thinkers" might want to use some electrostatic charging system like in industrial smokestacks to precipitate the dust onto the soil

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 16 Dec 2016 23:56

Aditya G wrote:

Excellent, new carriage. This will have better cross country mobility than the FH77B.

Bart S · Post by **Bart S** » 17 Dec 2016 03:11

Singha wrote:mystery photo

explanation
http://www.slideshare.net/VladZinchenko ... altimore01

Looks like something from an Austin Powers movie

Kakkaji · Post by **Kakkaji** » 18 Dec 2016 08:52

Any news about the testing of the Kalyani 155mm/52cal gun? While the ATAGS will take several years before it is ready for production, the Kalyani gun, even if not as advanced as the ATAGS, is ready for production today.

Our military procurent always makes the best the enemy of 'good enough'.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 18 Dec 2016 09:12

The last I heard, it was waiting for permission to be tested at the Mahajan range.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 Dec 2016 09:48

Kakkaji wrote: Our military procurent always makes the best the enemy of 'good enough'.

Unfortunately we Indians have various "levels" of criticism for anything that is done in India

When "good enough" is accepted, the next level of criticism is

Look at what Pakistan is doing - why can't we do it
Look at what china is doing - why can't we do it

Comments of both these categories have been made on this forum in the last few days, but comments on any other site -such as IDRW reveal exactly the same sentiments

We Indians are such hard task masters on ourselves that our only hope of perfection lies in doing something that no one else can see - like intense tapas and claiming "I have seen Brahman" and have attained the absolute. No one can criticize you then

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 18 Dec 2016 14:21

From @SandeepUnnithan

DRDO ATAGS 155/52 towed arty. First firing. Balasore. Successfully tested 'charge 9+' ammo 40 km +

ATAGS first indian designed , developed 155 mm gun. DRDO team up w Pvt sector Tata Power SED, Bharat Forge

ATAGS induction over 5 years. Fearsome addition to Indian arty. 40 km range. Will replace all 155 mm towed guns incl Bofors.

sarabpal.s · Post by **sarabpal.s** » 18 Dec 2016 14:40

Fusion of BOFORS & BHARAT52

i wonder where TATA PLAY MGS? G5 experience