China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 17 Dec 2016 01:12

MaverickV wrote:
Hopefully their brand new J-20s will help them to recover their money.
This comment smells of jealously Darshan ji.
Only a fool would under-estimate and mock their enemies/competitors.
We cannot afford to close our eyes to the J-20 threat for even close to stealthy J-20 in service is way better that a super-duper stealthy and maneuverable PAKFA which is not yet with us for testing and a possible 5.5 gen AMCA which is yet to be off the drawing boards.
We can comment on stealth aspects and how good the J-20 in its current avatar is but at least they have a flying bird which they can improve in next few years while we wont have any 5th gen bird on our hands to even look at during this time.
I would take the Chinese claims of J-20s stealth and other aspects with a bucket of salt but we are not in a position to de-ride them at all given the precarious position our politicians, bureaucrats and MIL have landed us in.
Even if the J-20 is 25% of what is boasted of, we have a serious problem on our hands given the chinese manufacturing prowess. They are capable of compensating any lack of quality with hundreds of in-service fighters by 2020.
I dont wish to unleash the Golem here but living in a fool's paradise with our heads in the sand like an ostrich is also not the desired way to go.

Am I jealous ? Ofcourse I am. Not one of our fighters/ships/tanks etc come loaded with Loan recovery software like J-20. That is some serious criminal negligence on the part of our defence research and production establishment. Curse be upon them.Bloody fools. How are we supposed to make our collections? Come on man. Give me a break.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 17 Dec 2016 01:41

Zynda wrote:Not sure if its taboo to post this here:

From Keypubs poster QuantumFX

DISCLAIMER: there are rumors

The 2x J-20 had been the aggressors (blue force). During one engagement, the red force had been comprised of AWACS, J-10, J-11, Su-30. There is some confusion here, whether they were J-11/Su-30 or J-16. But the J-10 were at least J-10B, possibly even J-10C. Both KJ-200 and KJ-2000 were part of the exercise but not clear which one was used during that engagements with the J-20. Anyway, at the very early stages of the confrontations, one of the J-20 takes out the AWACS. Once the AWACS was gone J-10s and flankers were completely lost. They were totally unable to locate the J-20. Not clear whether the AWACS itself detected the J-20. All of the Red-force were taken-out by the 2x J-20. It seem even in WVR J-10s and flankers RADARs were unable detect the J-20. There were also rumors about complete confusion between the Red-forces and their ground-control units once the AWACSs were gone. Essentially they were fighting ghosts. And according to more rumors, since things are extremely one-sided, they are planning the bring in counter-stealth assets to even the odds (Probably RADARs JY-50 and systems like DWL001/DWL002).

So even IF part of this is true, yes, the J-20 has made nice handsome debut but it also shows even with AWACS support, how poorly earlier gen fighters like the J-10, J-11 will fare against 5th gen fighters like the F-22 and F-35. If the engagements involved the KJ-2000 with multiple J-10C and they were unable detect the J-20, that is extremely worrisome. J-10C, KJ-2000, KJ-500 are some of the most advanced assets in the PLAAF.
Definitely some of the above are exaggerations just like how US sometimes says that F-25/22 are "invisible"

All this keypubs post points to is the serious technical deficiencies of the other chinese aircraft(other than J-20) in addition to extreme incompetence of their crews. The whole exercise is a fiasco and the worst part is that Chinese are advertising it.

There is a serious problem with Chinese military which makes them unsuitable for 21st century warfare. I came to this conclusion after I watched a Chinese special forces documentary on youtube. Now when your most elite units(atleast in terms of resourcefulness and decision making) have this problem, the rest of military is sure to have it. It is better for them to shun fighting altogether.

Our chicom comrade liu was stating earlier that chinese army can easily defeat African armies and factions. I am willing to bet a million dollars that he is in for a very rude awakening. I am waiting.

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 17 Dec 2016 01:57

Once upon a time I had a conversation with a white guy i.e an American. Now when an American opens his mouth to preach, I usually hear him with more than a pinch of salt considering their propensity to indulge in propaganda. But this guy was perceptive. He told me that Chinese people are extremely smart, which is actually true. I believe it. Some of the most brilliant people in world are chinese. Then he added that the main flaw in chinese people is that they consider everyone else stupid and hence lesser beings. And indeed you can sense the condescending behaviour when interacting with chinese people. This has led to their downfall in the past and will likely be the case in future too. Not to mention they are extremely racist and miserly(well most of them anyways).

Now you can understand why our dear chicom comrade Liu has such noble feelings about africans. Notice the callousness and disregard for african life in his posts. As if african people are just meant to be culled. He makes it sound like it is just a picnic for the Chinese military.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 17 Dec 2016 02:05

Dude, your white friend has some serious issues. If the above is not a gross generalization, then I don't know what is.

yellow yellow, dirty fellow, sitting on the buffalo

chola · Post by **chola** » 17 Dec 2016 02:26

Then he added that the main flaw in chinese people is that they consider everyone else stupid and hence lesser beings. And indeed you can sense the condescending behaviour when interacting with chinese people. T

Rakesh wrote:Dude, your white friend has some serious issues. If the above is not a gross generalization, then I don't know what is.

And highly inaccurate as well.

Almost to the last one, whites who've been to China from The Street says the Chinese worship foreigners to the point that it was embarassing. The complete opposite of the chinki seeing phoren as lesser. In fact, foreigners are placed on a pedestal over other chinese.

For those married and with children, their kids are fawned over and given gifts that they never seen given to other chinese. For those who are single, China is a playground. I've seen young college grads with pictures of girlfriends who look like models. Someone they would never been able to bag in the US. And they would bed them by the dozens in Shanghai and Beijing simply for being foreign.

We know this attitude which is why you can charge a 50 to a 100 percent premium in China over the EU and the US. If you dilute your foreign brand with local Chinese flavor you lose your leverage in pricing.

Maybe this white man was afraid to let others in on the benefits but if you are foreign and you're in China, you get treated better that the locals not looked down upon.

Aarvee · Post by **Aarvee** » 17 Dec 2016 04:14

China seizes US underwater drone in South China Sea
http://www.theage.com.au/world/china-se ... td691.html

China Blatantly Stole An American Underwater Drone From A US Ship In The South China Sea
http://dailycaller.com/2016/12/16/china ... china-sea/

@Mods please move if this isnt the right place

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 17 Dec 2016 07:03

There are two aspects to military dominance, where the first is before war and the second is by means of war

Clichés like "All plans break down at first contact with the enemy" are well known to us, but because conflict can be so costly and unpredictable, most entities start by "displays of power" to "show the adversary what we are capable of doing to him" - a sort of "war dance"

The entity that gets intimidated by a show of power will back off first, or the people who feel intimidated may be able to pull their leaders back from taking up a challenge even if their forces are actually capable of defeating the other guy who is doing his war dance.

Indian civilians are the most intimidated lot - in general. The memory of 1962 runs deep and the slightest show of force by China causes (the verbal) diarrhoea of defeat among Indian civilians. This offers China a huge advantage. The Indian military and government have a better idea of what can be done and what cannot be done. I will stop by saying that Indian military capabilities vis-a-vis China are stronger than the intimidated Indian civilians and Indian media believe. The reasons for this are not evident from the Chinese "war dance" that Indians see (like Liu's posts) and the abject and open respect and instant capitulation expressed by Indians in post after post on this thread, accompanied by a bashing down of those who disagree. But I digress.

China is doing a similar "war dance" with the USA. All classic tribal war dances are a lot of noise to attract attention - colours and fearsome looks, taunts and insults. These only set the stage - because it is not so much the dance, but the weapons and their use that are more significant. But those who get intimidated by the war dance are doing exactly what is intended by the war dance - that is to tell a potential enemy "Keep off. We will bugger your ass and send you packing if you come at us". In the late 1990s and early 2000s - the Chinese war dance was based on photoshops of rows upon rows of tanks and men - none of which impressed the US even if we on BRF were dhotishivering back then as we do now. In the last 10 years the Chinese have "Learned the American war dance technique" or the American language of power. They have copied the external trappings of US power by copying the shape and mimicking the concepts of US power - aircraft carriers, drones, stealth aircraft. The Chinese claim that they have caught up with the US without going through the decades of development that the US has been through in areas like carrier operations and stealth tech. The Chinese don't even deny that they copy - because that intimidates the enemy. The US has always been averse to admitting copying although they too copy in ways that are more subtle and never admit it afterwards even if it cost them a lot of time and effort.

To cut a long story short - China has successfully convinced a whole lot of people and nations that they are now almost equal to the US. This actually puts pressure on the US to show why this is not so. In a strange way the US military faces the same problem as the Indian military regarding China. They are constantly forced to explain why they will not lose a war against China and increasingly "show their hand" and willingness to challenge. It is a war of perceptions that the Chinese have turned upside down - never mind their real capabilities.

Rishi Verma · Post by **Rishi Verma** » 17 Dec 2016 08:32

China Seizes US Navy Underwater Drone

The seized underwater drone was part of an unclassified program to collect oceanographic data, including salinity, temperature and clarity of the water, the official added. (i.e. recording submarine signatures)

ranjan.rao · Post by **ranjan.rao** » 17 Dec 2016 08:54

shivji,
this post should also be in the list of keeper posts like the disclaimer one, it is posts like these that make peepal come to BRF much to chagrin of their wives
surely interesting times ahead

tandav · Post by **tandav** » 17 Dec 2016 14:55

How did they find the drone and how did they snag it. Its not so easy to pickup a drone from below water unless you control the drone itself. If the drone was piloted then some evasive manouvers could be tried. Also how come the drone was not equipped with a self destruct mechanism that would blow up the drone when captured on the Chinese ship

kit · Post by **kit** » 17 Dec 2016 15:33

maybe they were fishing around ?

Rishi Verma · Post by **Rishi Verma** » 17 Dec 2016 16:30

^^ once the Chinese observed the US ship sending and retrieving the underwater drone, they may have sent a rusty fishing trawler with drag net and got lucky.

American response to China capturing US property on high seas will be interesting to watch. China claims South China Sea as belonging to them based on a waky premise that in the year 1276 Kublai Khan stopped over one of the islands there to take a leak. It would be more fun if Lioniang get disappeared like MH370 without a trace.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 17 Dec 2016 16:38

The Obama Adminstration has dealt with China with kids glove , Dems being leftist have a soft corner for China and have been instrumental in their rise during their tenure , so call Pivot to Asia has just been rhetoric so as not to offend china much.

Expect the issue to be quietly resolved beyond media fanfare and expect Obama to take credit for it.

Liu · Post by **Liu** » 17 Dec 2016 17:12

Rishi Verma wrote:^^ once the Chinese observed the US ship sending and retrieving the underwater drone, they may have sent a rusty fishing trawler with drag net and got lucky.

American response to China capturing US property on high seas will be interesting to watch. China claims South China Sea as belonging to them based on a waky premise that in the year 1276 Kublai Khan stopped over one of the islands there to take a leak. It would be more fun if Lioniang get disappeared like MH370 without a trace.

too much fuss for a little trick.
PLAN has said that the drone is to return,once scan for safety is finished.

Liu · Post by **Liu** » 17 Dec 2016 17:41

GLOBAL TIMES:
PLAN found one 'unidentified objection' in SOUTH CHINA SEA. For marine safety, PLAN has picked it up for scanning.After receiving USA's claim,china has been keeping in smooth touch with USA. the issue will be solved soon.

【环球时报报道记者郭媛丹】据中方消息人士透露，12月15日，中国海军一艘救捞船在南海有关海域发现一具不明装置，为预防发生航行安全问题，对装置进行了识别查证。该人士还表示，中方已收到美方对该装置的认领请求，双方有关部门保持着顺畅的沟通渠道，相信此事会得到顺利解决。

Liu · Post by **Liu** » 17 Dec 2016 17:51

the drone will be returned after being scanned enough.
this time,chinese threw a wick hook to yankees,but yankees have to keep all kicked teeth in the mouth aand swollow in.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 17 Dec 2016 18:28

If its international waters Chinese cant do that , as in just take away the drone , If its chinese territorial water that drone as entered then its a different mater , US Ships were in International water is what US would contest

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » 17 Dec 2016 18:39

Liu wrote:GLOBAL TIMES:
PLAN found one 'unidentified objection' in SOUTH CHINA SEA. For marine safety, PLAN has picked it up for scanning.After receiving USA's claim,china has been keeping in smooth touch with USA. the issue will be solved soon.

【环球时报报道记者郭媛丹】据中方消息人士透露，12月15日，中国海军一艘救捞船在南海有关海域发现一具不明装置，为预防发生航行安全问题，对装置进行了识别查证。该人士还表示，中方已收到美方对该装置的认领请求，双方有关部门保持着顺畅的沟通渠道，相信此事会得到顺利解决。

Its the sort of thing a thief does and then claims that it was just lying there!

http://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/16/polit ... ne-stolen/

"Bowditch had stopped in the water to pick up two underwater drones. At that point a Chinese naval ship that had been shadowing the Bowditch put a small boat into the water. That small boat came up alongside and the Chinese crew took one of the drones."

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 17 Dec 2016 19:09

Zynda wrote:Not sure if its taboo to post this here:

From Keypubs poster QuantumFX

DISCLAIMER: there are rumors

The 2x J-20 had been the aggressors (blue force). During one engagement, the red force had been comprised of AWACS, J-10, J-11, Su-30. There is some confusion here, whether they were J-11/Su-30 or J-16. But the J-10 were at least J-10B, possibly even J-10C. Both KJ-200 and KJ-2000 were part of the exercise but not clear which one was used during that engagements with the J-20. Anyway, at the very early stages of the confrontations, one of the J-20 takes out the AWACS. Once the AWACS was gone J-10s and flankers were completely lost. They were totally unable to locate the J-20. Not clear whether the AWACS itself detected the J-20. All of the Red-force were taken-out by the 2x J-20. It seem even in WVR J-10s and flankers RADARs were unable detect the J-20. There were also rumors about complete confusion between the Red-forces and their ground-control units once the AWACSs were gone. Essentially they were fighting ghosts. And according to more rumors, since things are extremely one-sided, they are planning the bring in counter-stealth assets to even the odds (Probably RADARs JY-50 and systems like DWL001/DWL002).

So even IF part of this is true, yes, the J-20 has made nice handsome debut but it also shows even with AWACS support, how poorly earlier gen fighters like the J-10, J-11 will fare against 5th gen fighters like the F-22 and F-35. If the engagements involved the KJ-2000 with multiple J-10C and they were unable detect the J-20, that is extremely worrisome. J-10C, KJ-2000, KJ-500 are some of the most advanced assets in the PLAAF.
Definitely some of the above are exaggerations just like how US sometimes says that F-25/22 are "invisible"

Please let me post my take on this "rumor" seeing that it has passed unquestioned - coming from the almighty Keypubs phorum

It's like this. In the Korean war one or two entire squadrons of US Sabres would take off to do "fighter sweeps" over NoKo inviting NoKo MiG 15s to come and get 'em - and if they did pilots got kills. But this was a pointless exercise in an era when jets were as numerous as WW 2 fighters

Now my Q is what the fruck were those Chinese J-20s and the opposing AWACS + J-11/J-15 doing? A fighter sweep? That sounds stupid and pointless.

Now, could the J-20 have been aggressors going in to attack something? Unlikely because they had AAMs. So they must have been defenders.

So what were the J-11/15 and AWACS doing? It is likely that they were an "aggressor" team with some aircraft configured to attack - with bums, and others configured for air defence.

OK so the AWACS exposed itself by radiating energy to possibly a passive listening J-20, or best case it was detected by an agile narrow beam AESA. I am sceptical about the latter, Other than the US almost no one has actually managed to put out a great AESA in frontline fighters yet. Maybe Israel. France is getting there. OK so the AWACS was shot down. Then why did the J-11/15 get confused? Why should an attacking force be confused? They must have had an attack plan. OK the AWACS is down - and there are still fighters in the air. They could have split up to confuse the J-20 and at least 1-2 aircraft could have attempted a high speed low level dash to the target - destroying the target they went for. The other fighters could still have watched the backs of the attackers or at least distracted the J-20s. What IS this shit about "lost", "confusion" and "hunting ghosts"? That is frigging rhetoric. No need for that crap.

If a BRFite had written this story and put it up as a "possible war scenario" I would have given the story 1 out of 5. Frankly this fairy tale sounds like crony PLAAF guys trying to please their bosses by a completely fictional scenario where the J-20 is sure to win - just like a cricket match with a politician where the politician gets easy balls, catches are deliberately dropped and he never gets out just for chamchagiri.

Pah!

Liu · Post by **Liu** » 17 Dec 2016 19:36

shiv,you are wrong.

as for leaks from chinese insiders, the almighty one is not keypubs ,but CD.

keypub always copy/quote CD.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 17 Dec 2016 19:51

Liu wrote:shiv,you are wrong.

as for leaks from chinese insiders, the almighty one is not keypubs ,but CD.

keypub always copy/quote CD.

You post a stupid story like that and say I am wrong - I am only going to laugh. That story has more holes than a sieve, and PLAAF pilots are made to look like stupid idiots. Sure - if you insist that story is true I will accept it as true but will keep laughing. Its your call to make your pilots look like buffoons.

You mean J-11/15 pilots got confused and lost and had no plan of action when the AWACS was lost? What sort of training do your pilots get? Mao's Red Book? Bah

Liu · Post by **Liu** » 17 Dec 2016 20:02

Austin wrote:If its international waters Chinese cant do that , as in just take away the drone , If its chinese territorial water that drone as entered then its a different mater , US Ships were in International water is what US would contest

if yankees constantly did so with india in the bay of Bengal,indians here would have a different viewpoint.

where you stand decides what you think of it,doesn't it?

BTW
before long,chinese underwater drone might appear in the "international water"beside USA coast.
at that time,i hope that indians here could keep your word and insist defending chinese freedom in international water.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 17 Dec 2016 20:34

del inappropriate

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 17 Dec 2016 20:42

About this J-20 fairy tale, do Chinese AWACS not have missile launch and approach warning systems? Or are they made in China avionics? If J-20 carries 6 AAMs - does it mean that each AAM has a 100% kill probability? The best missiles in the world have a 40% kill probability, but PLAAF has 100% kill probability mijjilej

svinayak · Post by **svinayak** » 17 Dec 2016 21:09

Liu wrote:

BTW
before long,chinese underwater drone might appear in the "international water"beside USA coast.
at that time,i hope that indians here could keep your word and insist defending chinese freedom in international water.

PRC china does not have a legitimate govt. It is a rogue country. Which country wants to defend China?

Liu · Post by **Liu** » 18 Dec 2016 07:07

shiv wrote:About this J-20 fairy tale, do Chinese AWACS not have missile launch and approach warning systems? Or are they made in China avionics? If J-20 carries 6 AAMs - does it mean that each AAM has a 100% kill probability? The best missiles in the world have a 40% kill probability, but PLAAF has 100% kill probability mijjilej

1.
as for missle,sombody had discussed it.
http://www.janes.com/article/65922/imag ... ir-missile
BYW,CD said that the missle is developed specially for j20,and j16 can carry it too.
its range(500km/300mile) is enough to kick out any awac and refuelingjet.

2.j10b use pesa.
j10c,j11d,j16 and j20 all use AESA.

you still think european/israel radar lis ahead of china?
come on,wake up,guy!

Liu · Post by **Liu** » 18 Dec 2016 07:07

shiv wrote:About this J-20 fairy tale, do Chinese AWACS not have missile launch and approach warning systems? Or are they made in China avionics? If J-20 carries 6 AAMs - does it mean that each AAM has a 100% kill probability? The best missiles in the world have a 40% kill probability, but PLAAF has 100% kill probability mijjilej

1.
as for missle,sombody had discussed it.
http://www.janes.com/article/65922/imag ... ir-missile
BYW,CD said that the missle is developed specially for j20,and j16 can carry it too.
its range(500km/300mile) is enough to kick out any awac and refuelingjet.

2.j10b use pesa.
j10c,j11d,j16 and j20 all use AESA.

you still think european/israel radar is ahead of china?
come on,wake up,guy!
india was ahead of china in 1950 too.

Liu · Post by **Liu** » 18 Dec 2016 07:08

svinayak wrote:
Liu wrote:

BTW
before long,chinese underwater drone might appear in the "international water"beside USA coast.
at that time,i hope that indians here could keep your word and insist defending chinese freedom in international water.
PRC china does not have a legitimate govt. It is a rogue country. Which country wants to defend China?

haha,i love your answer… …
i think as long as comminist can provide a rich cozy peace orderly soceity for chinese people, cpc is a legitimate ruler.

BTW, when i was a freshman 17 years ago, my monthly salary was only 100 USD, i lived a 3rd world livel life.

now i earn dozens of times more, my real life quality is as good as mid-class in Taiwan,if not better.so are most chinese around me.

that is why chinese now can buy 20 times more cars in 2016 than they did in 2000.that is also why so many mainland chinese now start mocking Taiwanese life quality(after visiting taiwan,many mainland chinese find taiwanese real life quality is not better than mainland in fact)

i am satisfied with CPC's rule,as long as my life quality can keep getting better.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 Dec 2016 07:34

Liu wrote: as for missle,sombody had discussed it.
http://www.janes.com/article/65922/imag ... ir-missile
BYW,CD said that the missle is developed specially for j20,and j16 can carry it too.
its range(500km/300mile) is enough to kick out any awac and refuelingjet.

Even if it is 10,000 km range and can knock out a flying tank it still means that Chinese AWACS do not have missile approach warning systems which even some civilian airliners have. It also does not explain why J-11/15 pilots acted stupid and had no plan B when the AWACS was shot down. The J-20 cannot possibly carry more than 4 of your 10000000000 km range missile . That should have given an opportunity for the J-11/15/Su-30 to carry on with their mission. Instead they "got confused, and started chasing ghosts" wtf? Such a stupid story even by ChiCom propaganda standards

Liu wrote: 2.j10b use pesa.
j10c,j11d,j16 and j20 all use AESA.

you still think european/israel radar is ahead of china?
come on,wake up,guy!
india was ahead of china in 1950 too.

Wake up? LOL You are not my communist party minder to tell me what I should do. I do not believe things just because someone says it even if all Chinese do that. Asking some random internet user like me to wake up is not going to make ChiCom avionics convincing. Chinese systems need to be demonstrated outside China to people outside commie party functionaries.

Secrecy and bluff is the trick that every liar in the world uses to try and hide what is embarrassing. On this forum all you do is boast about Chinese stuff while everything you boast about is only known through Chinese boasts.I wonder if you think that all people in the world are like the Chinese - who will believe what the party functionary wants you to believe and not ask questions - requiring instructions like "Wake up"

Recall that the performance of the J-20 at Zhuhai was bad. It was not just a pretend bad performance. It was actually losing altitude in a turn. Carrying those 10000000000 km range missiles would make it worse - so your boasts need to come with a lot more proof.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 Dec 2016 07:42

Liu wrote:
that is why chinese now can buy 20 times more cars in 2016 than they did in 2000.that is also why so many mainland chinese now start mocking Taiwanese life quality(after visiting taiwan,many mainland chinese find taiwanese real life quality is not better than mainland in fact)
.

Car numbers are a standard of greatness? Now you are copying white man/west and saying you are better than him. Interesting. That seems to be a Chinese aim - the end point of Communist China's aspiration. Why not stick to your usual military boasts on this thread?

This business of life quality is not for this thread.

Liu · Post by **Liu** » 18 Dec 2016 08:03

shiv wrote:
Liu wrote: as for missle,sombody had discussed it.
http://www.janes.com/article/65922/imag ... ir-missile
BYW,CD said that the missle is developed specially for j20,and j16 can carry it too.
its range(500km/300mile) is enough to kick out any awac and refuelingjet.
Even if it is 10,000 km range and can knock out a flying tank it still means that Chinese AWACS do not have missile approach warning systems which even some civilian airliners have. It also does not explain why J-11/15 pilots acted stupid and had no plan B when the AWACS was shot down. The J-20 cannot possibly carry more than 4 of your 10000000000 km range missile . That should have given an opportunity for the J-11/15/Su-30 to carry on with their mission. Instead they "got confused, and started chasing ghosts" wtf? Such a stupid story even by ChiCom propaganda standards

Liu wrote: 2.j10b use pesa.
j10c,j11d,j16 and j20 all use AESA.

you still think european/israel radar is ahead of china?
come on,wake up,guy!
india was ahead of china in 1950 too.
Wake up? LOL You are not my communist party minder to tell me what I should do. I do not believe things just because someone says it even if all Chinese do that. Asking some random internet user like me to wake up is not going to make ChiCom avionics convincing. Chinese systems need to be demonstrated outside China to people outside commie party functionaries.

Secrecy and bluff is the trick that every liar in the world uses to try and hide what is embarrassing. On this forum all you do is boast about Chinese stuff while everything you boast about is only known through Chinese boasts.I wonder if you think that all people in the world are like the Chinese - who will believe what the party functionary wants you to believe and not ask questions - requiring instructions like "Wake up"

Recall that the performance of the J-20 at Zhuhai was bad. It was not just a pretend bad performance. It was actually losing altitude in a turn. Carrying those 10000000000 km range missiles would make it worse - so your boasts need to come with a lot more proof.

1.you can estimate chinese weapon as you wish, of course ,at your peril.

2.as for the quality of all china-made( including weapons ,of course).
3 -4 years ago, I used Sansumg smartphone.at that time. Korea-made smartphones were head of China-made ones indeed.
last year, I bought one Huawei mate8,which makes all korea-made ones look like $hit!

http://product.pchome.net/cell_phone/pi ... 73680.html

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 18 Dec 2016 08:16

Liu wrote: 1.you can estimate chinese weapon as you wish, of course ,at your peril.

This is exactly what makes me laugh. You want to be taken seriously and you claim that I am in peril if you are not taken seriously. If I exclude your Communist indoctrination and stick to logic there are only 2 possibilities
1. What you are saying is a big bluff because you are so desperate to be taken seriously
2. There is some truth in what you say - but I will still laugh at you and wait for more proof rather than loud Chinese boasts. Go on. I want you to take over Gambia and scare me. Take it as a challenge that will shut me up forever.

Please cut out the "peril" crap. You know damn what what peril actually means if push comes to shove - so you can shove you peril threat up your guangdong

Liu wrote: 2.as for the quality of all china-made( including weapons ,of course).
3 -4 years ago, I used Sansumg smartphone.at that time. Korea-made smartphones were head of China-made ones indeed.
last year, I bought one Huawei mate8,which makes all korea-made ones look like $hit!

If smartphones are weapons - Korea wins hands down with its exploding phones. The Chinese are way waaaay behind

But if you can show pictures of smartphones and claim that Chinese weapons are better because Chinese smartphone pictures are prettier- Pakistanis can show images of long beards and claim that their weapons are better. Seriously - you guys seem to get a really weird education in China. I don't give a damn about your education - but why do you believe that everyone else will get convinced by your boasting on this forum? You are an interesting case for psychological studies of Chicom logic

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 18 Dec 2016 13:58

Liu wrote:if yankees constantly did so with india in the bay of Bengal,indians here would have a different viewpoint.

where you stand decides what you think of it,doesn't it?

BTW
before long,chinese underwater drone might appear in the "international water"beside USA coast.
at that time,i hope that indians here could keep your word and insist defending chinese freedom in international water.

What was wrong here was Chinese taking over/stealing/keeping the drone in intl water .....you cant do that unless that drone was in any way threatening or it entered Chinese territorial waters.

I am sure the US ships out there were mapping the ocean floor for military purpose , They have done that before near Chinese waters and Chinese had then IIRC put up a gun boat near US ships to intimidate them.

Liu · Post by **Liu** » 18 Dec 2016 16:33

Austin wrote:
Liu wrote:if yankees constantly did so with india in the bay of Bengal,indians here would have a different viewpoint.

where you stand decides what you think of it,doesn't it?

BTW
before long,chinese underwater drone might appear in the "international water"beside USA coast.
at that time,i hope that indians here could keep your word and insist defending chinese freedom in international water.
What was wrong here was Chinese taking over/stealing/keeping the drone in intl water .....you cant do that unless that drone was in any way threatening or it entered Chinese territorial waters.

I am sure the US ships out there were mapping the ocean floor for military purpose , They have done that before near Chinese waters and Chinese had then IIRC put up a gun boat near US ships to intimidate them.

well, in theory, there is no wrong with your explaination.(so, CHina would return the drone).

I just hope that your explaination of "freedom of international water" would not be a "one-way street", when CHinese underwater drone maps along USA/India's coast.

as you know, double-standard one-way-street words usually make people sick,however most west guys never know it.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 18 Dec 2016 18:10

Liu wrote:
Austin wrote:
What was wrong here was Chinese taking over/stealing/keeping the drone in intl water .....you cant do that unless that drone was in any way threatening or it entered Chinese territorial waters.

I am sure the US ships out there were mapping the ocean floor for military purpose , They have done that before near Chinese waters and Chinese had then IIRC put up a gun boat near US ships to intimidate them.
well, in theory, there is no wrong with your explaination.(so, CHina would return the drone).

I just hope that your explaination of "freedom of international water" would not be a "one-way street", when CHinese underwater drone maps along USA/India's coast.

as you know, double-standard one-way-street words usually make people sick,however most west guys never know it.

If China does such an act in Intl waters near US submarine bases or coast CNN/Fox would be calling murder of US democracy by evil communist China

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 18 Dec 2016 21:29

Chinese Navy Admiral claims Chinese Air Force can Simultaneously Fight Two Air Battles against the US Navy
http://en.yibada.com/articles/176651/20 ... z4TCo2yiVf

The incredulous claim was made by PLAN Rear Admiral Yin Zhou, a member of the PLAN's advisory board on cybersecurity and a former national political adviser. He was also a committee member of the 11th Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference.

Liu · Post by **Liu** » 18 Dec 2016 22:46

Rakesh wrote:Chinese Navy Admiral claims Chinese Air Force can Simultaneously Fight Two Air Battles against the US Navy
http://en.yibada.com/articles/176651/20 ... z4TCo2yiVf

The incredulous claim was made by PLAN Rear Admiral Yin Zhou, a member of the PLAN's advisory board on cybersecurity and a former national political adviser. He was also a committee member of the 11th Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference.

there are 2 unofficial speakers of PLA ,who are active on medias.
1.one is PLAN rear admiral Zhang Zhaozhong(retired).he offten released misleading information deliberately.

for example ,Zhang "seriouly " denied the existence of any chinese 5g bird project(j20/j31) on CCTV,just after PLAAF vice commander leaked(maybe undeliberately) information of chinese 5g birds for the 1st time in 2008.

as we know, j20 appeared in 2011.after that, Zhang is labeled "Chinese Sahaf" by chinese military fanboys.

since that, chinese fanboys joke that Zhang's "Yes" usually means "NO". so vice verse.

2.PLAN rear admiral Yin ZHOU is the guy opposite to Zhang.
Zhang usually release misleading information, but Yin usually release serious analyse or suggestions(usually before PLa officially admit them).
for examle,Yin suggested the existence of j31/h20/y20/df21 ,which have been vetifed now.

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 18 Dec 2016 23:07

Liu wrote: well, in theory, there is no wrong with your explaination.(so, CHina would return the drone).

I just hope that your explaination of "freedom of international water" would not be a "one-way street", when CHinese underwater drone maps along USA/India's coast.

as you know, double-standard one-way-street words usually make people sick,however most west guys never know it.

it's 1063 km's from subic bay, Philippines to the Chinese coast.

Chinese thievery knows no boundaries.

TSJones · Post by **TSJones** » 18 Dec 2016 23:10

If China does such an act in Intl waters near US submarine bases or coast CNN/Fox would be calling murder of US democracy by evil communist China

we will just wait until China pulls a slick one on India and then we will all have a good chuckle, eh?

Liu · Post by **Liu** » 18 Dec 2016 23:29

Stil learning. Lost big post. How use send button? China broadband slow