Artillery: News & Discussion

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ashishvikas
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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Post by ashishvikas »

India Today visits Gun Carriage Factory, Jabalpur.

http://m.indiatoday.in/video/dhanush-ar ... 51399.html
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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Post by Indranil »

Does anybody know which engine powers the APU of Dhanush and ATAGS?
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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Post by dinesh_kimar »

^ FORCE MOTORS, which makes Mercedes OM Series 4 and 5 cyl engines under license.
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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Post by shiv »

Lalmohan wrote:dust filters, hot and humid conditions, hot and high, high and cold... there are a variety of conditions in india which have to be catered for... when the core design may be for only one or two scenarios
I have told this story before - but I will add 2 more.

A late uncle of my SHQ who was in the navy related a story of a Russian ship/boat freshly imported was scheduled for a test firing of gun. When teh fired it the recoil nearly knocked the gun off its mountings. Turned out that the hydraulic fluid in the recoil damping mechanism was suitable only for Russian temperatures and ran like water in out ambient temps. A different higher temp fluid was needed

There is also an anecdote from the book "Foxtrots of the Indian Navy". One Foxtrot en route from frigid Russia entered tropical climes and needed teh airconditioners to be switched on. The did not work. On opening them up it was found that the ducts were filled sith cleaning cloth which the Russki manufacturers had failed to remove causing serious damage to the pumps. They had never turned on or tested the AC because it was -25 deg C in Roos

The third story is about how MiG 21 pilots could lose a kilo in water loss in one sortie because of the heat - while the HF-24 was called a flying Cadillac because of its excellent India installed air conditioning

I am also guessing that the entire firing tables for action at high altitude will require completely different calculations and the computer itself ruggedized for Indian conditions and communication algorithms and encryption to meet Indian armed forces standards
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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Post by Paul »

Force motors is owned by Bajaj?
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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Post by hnair »

Firodias
Indranil
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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Post by Indranil »

dinesh_kimar wrote:^ FORCE MOTORS, which makes Mercedes OM Series 4 and 5 cyl engines under license.
Thank you.
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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Post by Philip »

Media reports say that ATAGS is a great success (IA) and should arrive sometime post 2020! Can't understand why it is going to take 3-4 years before the gun enters service. If there are sev. prototypes already in existence,why can't a pre-production batch be built and handed over top the IA for live firing across the border?
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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Post by Pratyush »

The dhanush diliveries should be fully completed by then.

PS on a related note. Why did the DRDO develop a separate carriage for the atags and nor reuse the dhanush carriage already under manufacture by the ofb. Was the original carriage in capable of handling the new gun.
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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Post by schinnas »

Philip wrote:Media reports say that ATAGS is a great success (IA) and should arrive sometime post 2020! Can't understand why it is going to take 3-4 years before the gun enters service. If there are sev. prototypes already in existence,why can't a pre-production batch be built and handed over top the IA for live firing across the border?
Wouldnt the summer, winter, high altitude and desert trials take an year or so? Incorporating any feedback into the design will take some time followed by user trails to validate. But I still agree that starting 2019 production units should reach army. Post 2020 is not justifiable given the huge gaps we have in artillery. Hope Parrikar steps in and speeds it up.
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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Post by abhik »

Pratyush wrote:The dhanush diliveries should be fully completed by then.

PS on a related note. Why did the DRDO develop a separate carriage for the atags and nor reuse the dhanush carriage already under manufacture by the ofb. Was the original carriage in capable of handling the new gun.
I'm guessing the carriage is the same one used in the Bharat Forge bharath 52 gun or possibly the denel G52 gun via Tata (both guns share same parentage).
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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Post by Rakesh »

India's first self-made long-range artillery gun! - Video from India Today
https://twitter.com/Naren_Reddy23/statu ... 9397936128
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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Post by Rakesh »

After Dhanush And M777 Howitzers, Modi Government Is Set To Finalise Third Artillery Deal In A Year
http://swarajyamag.com/insta/after-dhan ... -in-a-year

Modi Closes In on $660 Million Weapons Deal
https://www.bloomberg.com/politics/arti ... power-gaps
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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Post by Bheeshma »

Any plans for mounted 155 mm 52 cal? Tata could replace the G5 denel from their earlier prototype.
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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Post by Rakesh »

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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Post by Rakesh »

After 30 years, India inducts ‘Dhanushya’, indigenous artillery gun
http://www.thehindubusinessline.com/new ... 476587.ece
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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Post by morem »

Guided Pinaka successfully test fired at Odisha's Chandipur
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 504656.cms

this is a big step , wonder what happens to Prahar though
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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Post by ranjan.rao »

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 504656.cms
BALASORE (ODISHA): Guided Pinaka, which has been upgraded from Pinaka Rocket, was Thursday successfully test fired from the Integrated Test Range at Chandipur near here.
The Pinaka Rocket Mark-II, which evolved from Pinaka Mark-I, is equipped with a navigation, guidance and control kit and has been transformed to a Guided Pinaka.
The test firing was conducted from Launch Complex-III of ITR, defence sources said.
The conversion considerably enhanced the range and accuracy of Pinaka. The test firing had met all mission objectives, they said.
The radars, electro-optical and telemetry systems at Chandipur tracked and monitored the vehicle all through the flight-path.
The Guided Pinaka is developed jointly by ARDE Pune, RCI Hyderabad and DRDL Hyderabad. ITR Chandipur provided the range and launch support, sources said. [If so many units can successfully coordinate for Pinaka then would there be so many issues between them for Nirbhay? ]
K M Rajan, Director ARDE (Armament Research and Development Establishment), Pune, B H V S Narayana Murthy, Director, RCI, Hyderabad, B K Das, Director of ITR, Chandipur and R Appavuraj, Director, Proof and Experimental Establishment (PXE), Chandipur monitored the launch operations.
An Armed Forces team witnessed the flight test AS G Satheesh Reddy, Scientific Advisor to the Defence Minister, was present during the test firing, they said.
Defence Minister Manohar Parrikar has congratulated the DRDO, industry and the Armed Forces for the successful flight-test, a release said.
P K Mehta, DG (ACE) and S Christopher, Secretary, Department of Defence R&D and Chairman, DRDO, also congratulated the teams that participated in the successful test firing.
Congrats to all the scientists involved
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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Post by Rakesh »

ranjan.rao wrote:[If so many units can successfully coordinate for Pinaka then would there be so many issues between them for Nirbhay? ]
Two entirely different programs.
Two entirely different purposes.
Two entirely different technological challenges.
You are doing an apples to oranges comparison now.
The challenges that Nirbhay is facing is technical in nature and not an issue between units.
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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Post by ranjan.rao »

Rakesh sir, from whatever little followed this and other related forums, all the five points have been flogged, my question was regarding the news items that tried to portray failure of Nirbhay test due to tussle between different departments(may not be their exact words)
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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Post by Aditya_V »

morem wrote:Guided Pinaka successfully test fired at Odisha's Chandipur
http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 504656.cms

this is a big step , wonder what happens to Prahar though
Both are required, prahaar in lesser numbers.
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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Post by tsarkar »

Note the canards in the nose in guided Pinaka Image
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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Post by Pratyush »

How is targeting information passed on to the rocket. Is the rocket compatible with existing launcher.
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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Post by ashishvikas »

Does TATA/AL have capability to make tucks which can replace TATRA trucks of future Regiments ?
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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Post by vaibhav.n »

Pratyush wrote:How is targeting information passed on to the rocket. Is the rocket compatible with existing launcher.
It is the launcher which is equipped with an INS system and likely being cued by the Battery CP tied into the Artillery Combat Command and Control System (ACCCS). The rockets iirc have an trajectory correction system.
Sagem (Safran group) has completed delivery of its Sigma 30 artillery navigation and pointing systems to the first two regiments in the Indian army deploying the Pinaka multiple launch rocket system (MLRS). Developed and produced by Sagem, the Sigma 30 is a laser gyro land navigation and pointing system for artillery pieces, enabling highly accurate firing on short notice.

Sagem has also set up a maintenance shop near New Delhi to help the Indian army keep its Sigma 30 systems in fighting trim. Indian mechanics received specialized training for this system in both France and India.

The Sigma 30 pointing system has been proven in combat on a Caesar 155 mm gun. It is also used with NATO's Mars MLRS and the 2R2M 120 mm mobile mortar, within the scope of a modernization program. In addition, the Sigma 30 has been qualified on the Archer, Donar, PZH 2000 and FH 77 B05 155 mm guns.

Designed for time sensitive missions in the most constrained operational environments (jammed, spoofed or denied GPS), the Sigma 30 family provides:
• A full range of pointing accuracies from 4 mils to 0.4 mils to meet all system requirements
• Static gyrocompass in less than 2 minutes
• On-the-move alignment
• Autonomous navigation without GPS
• Shoot and Scoot capability
• MRSI capability

Artillery Combat Command and Control System
Shakti is a main sub-system of Tactical Command Control & Communication Intelligence (Tac C3I) system being deployed by the Army. The components that go into Shakti are enhanced tactical computer, handheld computer, gun display unit, all of which are interconnected through tactical radio network, land lines or fibre optic cable, an official statement said.

Presently, the artillery operations in the Army are being carried out manually. Shakti system makes use of software with GIS and GPS functionalities to integrate and automate all artillery operational functions.

The major functions of Shakti are: technical fire control (trajectory computation), tactical fire control (processing of fire requests and ammunition management), deployment management (suggesting deployment areas for guns and observation posts for defensive and offensive operations), operational logistics (timely provisioning of ammunition and logistic support) and fire planning (generation of fire plans, task tables and automatic generation of gun programmes).
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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Post by manjgu »

so what does S30 accomplish and how?
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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Post by vaibhav.n »

Land navigation systems are inertial systems primarily based on laser ring gyros or fiber optic ones fused with motion sensors. They provide the ability to conduct navigation without the need for GPS receivers or when signals are getting jammed. That information can be inlaid over existing digital GIS maps and report own position. The same information relayed over data networks can enable rudimentary blue force tracking.

Nowadays carried by all mechanised forces and even logistic units in western armies. More accurate variants are used by artillery guns to not only conduct basic navigation but also pre survey of possible firing locations by the unit GPO (Gun Position Officer) and automatic laying of guns and MBRL's.
Artillery guns and rocket launcher systems have recently witnessed a quantum enhancement of their capability of accurate firing. This has been made possible by accurate navigation systems on the modern 155mm guns, which allows artillery to manoeuvre from forward concentration areas/hides to pre-determined gun positions without the conventional ’gun convoys’. Accurate navigation and laying of guns is also possible on dark nights and during the most adverse weather condition of fog or low visibility, and at the same speed and accuracy as in daylight.

Gun/rocket batteries would no longer require survey. Modern technology has so revolutionised artillery manoeuvre that each gun has the ability to be independent and deployed in an autonomous mode. This is extremely important especially in a high intensity air or counter fire threat by surface means. The move and deployment is also possible without the global positioning system (GPS), which may be frequently jammed in battle. All the above capabilities are possible due to accurate navigation capabilities which are onboard modern 155mm guns.

Artillery philosophy lays emphasis on destruction rather than neutralisation, and hence the importance of accuracy of delivery means. With improved pointing systems, guns are able to align on the targets and bring down accurate and consistent fire quickly. Such navigation and pointing/alignment systems also have the ability to align on the move in a shoot and scoot mode. When it comes to the firing session, the gun shall be aligned “on the move” to reduce the delay to manoeuvre, be laid on the designated target as quick as possible, shoot directly to the target without needs of fire adjustment and scoot to the next firing position.

Contemporary gun systems have a range in excess of 40 km, while multi-rocket launches can fire up to a distance of 80 to 150 km. With their enhanced ranges, high accuracy of positioning and azimuth are of critical importance.

Today’s navigation systems enable modern artillery guns to have the following combined performances:

1. An orientation accuracy enabling firing errors contribution limited to 35 m at 40 km firing range, therefore better than 0.9 miles.
2. A fixation accuracy after a tactical travelled distance of 40 km of 20 m CEP (0.05 per cent of TD) in X,Y and five metre CEP in Z (0.02 per cent of TD).
3. A fast alignment time of five minutes and less than five minutes in case of “alignment on the move”.
https://www.gdels.com/brochures/artillery_dinaps.pdf
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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Post by manjgu »

so vaibhav how would one use this kind of system to say hit a moving column? target whose position changes.. i will still need a spotter? FOO
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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Post by Rakesh »

Successful Pinaka guided rocket test portends boost to army firepower
http://ajaishukla.blogspot.ca/2017/01/s ... -test.html
In this, each individual guided rocket is guided separately, with an on-board computer calculating its flight path, and a transmitter and receiver on the launcher sending signals to keep it on path. Every 20 microseconds, a navigation device calculates the rocket’s position and sends a path correction message through the radio link. To correct its flight path, the rocket is shifted through thrust vectors, i.e. gases coming out from the propulsion system through nozzles.
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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Post by Rakesh »

MoD in final stages of ordering 155/52 self-propelled Dhanush Artillery Gun
http://www.defencenews.in/article.aspx?id=249854
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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Post by vaibhav.n »

manjgu wrote:so vaibhav how would one use this kind of system to say hit a moving column? target whose position changes.. i will still need a spotter? FOO
Yes, we would absolutely require an FOO to call in fires and correct the fall of rounds. However what these systems are designed to effect is when one is using artillery to engage at long ranges, get rounds on target more easily and faster.

FOO support could be relied upon when providing support fires to own forces. That is not likely to be the case, as you may well know when destroying enemy concentrations in depth. One of the reasons the US and recently the Russians in Ukraine have extensively used UAV's in FOO role to call in artillery fires but also Close Air Support and BDA.
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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Post by Snehashis »

Rakesh wrote:MoD in final stages of ordering 155/52 self-propelled Dhanush Artillery Gun
http://www.defencenews.in/article.aspx?id=249854
It must be the Korean gun K-9 Thunder. Dhanush is a towed one and the reporter mixed it up.
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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Post by ranjan.rao »

No Bhim?
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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Post by Snehashis »

ranjan.rao wrote:No Bhim?
Renuka Choudhury killed it. :(( :(( :((
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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Post by Prem »

BAE Systems manufacturing 155mm howitzers for India.
http://www.upi.com/Business_News/Securi ... 484318055/
ARLINGTON, Va., Jan. 13 (UPI) -- BAE Systems is producing ultra-lightweight howitzers for the Indian Army as a result of a Foreign Military Sales deal between the Indian and U.S. governments.The Department of Defense contact is for a total of 145 M777 gun systems and worth $542 million, the company said."We look forward to working with the Indian Army and providing the only battle-proven 155mm ultra-lightweight howitzer in the world," Joe Senftle, vice president and general manager of Weapon Systems at BAE Systems said. "The M777 will give the Indian Army superior artillery capability."M777 will remain at the forefront of artillery technology well into the future through the use of technical insertions, long-range precision guided munition developments, and flexible mobility options."The 155mm howitzer weighs 9,300 pounds and can fire as many as five rounds per minute.BAE Systems said its work on the contract begins immediately and will be performed by BAE Systems and its suppliers across Britain, the United States and India.Deliveries of the howitzers are to begin this June.
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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Post by Rakesh »

Oh my the irony! Blacklisted Bofors is now making artillery pieces again for India.

BAE Systems acquired United Defense and its Bofors subsidiary in 2005!

Bofors has come full circle - from contractor to blacklister to contractor again.
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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Post by sohamn »

Its not that much of an irony - it would if we would have bought FH-77B02. We did FMS with USA and the artillery is almost entirely produced in USA.
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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Post by sohamn »

Snehashis wrote:
Rakesh wrote:MoD in final stages of ordering 155/52 self-propelled Dhanush Artillery Gun
http://www.defencenews.in/article.aspx?id=249854
It must be the Korean gun K-9 Thunder. Dhanush is a towed one and the reporter mixed it up.

Dhanush is self propelled but not a track or truck mounted artillery. It has a small engine which enables it to shoot and scoot. where the reporter got confused is that Dhanush is not 155/52 but is a 155/45 caliber artillery. These DDM reports know little that there is another artillery in development by DRDO known as ATAGS which is 155/52 caliber.
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Re: Artillery Discussion Thread

Post by sohamn »

Rakesh wrote:Successful Pinaka guided rocket test portends boost to army firepower
http://ajaishukla.blogspot.ca/2017/01/s ... -test.html
In this, each individual guided rocket is guided separately, with an on-board computer calculating its flight path, and a transmitter and receiver on the launcher sending signals to keep it on path. Every 20 microseconds, a navigation device calculates the rocket’s position and sends a path correction message through the radio link. To correct its flight path, the rocket is shifted through thrust vectors, i.e. gases coming out from the propulsion system through nozzles.
Does guru's know if pinaka has control surfaces or is solely vectored by thrust?
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