Latest Chinese boast: should we shiver or die laughing?

Gerard · Post by **Gerard** » 17 Jan 2017 00:53

Does anyone have a link to actual Chinese reports or a credible newspaper that translated same? Or is this all from one twitter claim?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 17 Jan 2017 01:51

Twitter is the new media. It's from a Chinese news organization.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 17 Jan 2017 02:04

Hele is the tliggel fol the Chinese Twittel bissing contest

This came out Janualy foulth.

See the headline, first of all. Then read on:

"The two-front is a real scenario. Much has changed from before in terms of our capabilities...The Army, Navy and IAF are now jointly very much prepared for such an eventuality."

{Right under that is a pic of a vely very elect Agni mijjile lifting off, presumably towards Beijing}

..
Apart from the development of the Agni-V and Agni-IV nuclear-capable ballistic missiles, the forces have taken a series of steps to slowly but surely transform the "dissuasion" posture against China into "deterrence", which in turn is now being upgraded to "credible deterrence".

The Army is also raising the new 17 Mountain Strike Corps, which with 90,274 soldiers will have two high-altitude infantry divisions.

When Comlade Wee Dong and other ppl hu r by nature uber-self-conscious of their undersized mijjiles read something like that, it gives them great umbrage. They feel like surrendering immediately to Indian Almy so they can see Dirri.

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » 17 Jan 2017 02:57

Now really,

Sino-Vietnamese War

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sino-Vietnamese_War

It took 18 days with 200,000+ troops (if you take Vietnamese figures then its 600,000 troops) to take Lang Son, it's only 20 kms from the chinese border. If chinese dreams were horses.......

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 17 Jan 2017 03:10

Gerard wrote:Does anyone have a link to actual Chinese reports or a credible newspaper that translated same? Or is this all from one twitter claim?

Gerard, Agni V has made them VERY nervous and VERY twitchy. All this rhona dhona is a result of that. We should lend (actually they can keep it!) them some dhotis to shiver in. We should also conduct a few more tests. I hope to see in my lifetime China getting humbled.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 17 Jan 2017 06:54

I was hoping to use this thread to do a detailed analysis of the border using Kookal yearth. Border is a funny word. Over most of this border serious attacks are simply not possible. It is the areas where they can occur that need attention. There are areas that Indian forces can occupy also

Let me repost my Googal arth study of Aksai Chin from DFI
Chinese Roads And Infrastructure In Aksai Chin – A Google Earth Study

Need to do the same for the rest of the border

Meanwhile here are the Chinee airfields I found serving Aksai Chin in 2013 with distance and airfield altitude marked. Don't know if I missed any

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 17 Jan 2017 07:22

The Chinese should talk to that other tinpot dictatorship; Pakistan's heroes Ayub, Yahya, Zia, Musharraf all had plans to march on Delhi. Delhi still awaits.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 17 Jan 2017 08:01

sanjaykumar wrote:The Chinese should talk to that other tinpot dictatorship; Pakistan's heroes Ayub, Yahya, Zia, Musharraf all had plans to march on Delhi. Delhi still awaits.

Actually Pakistan had a much better chance of getting to Delhi because of the terrain.

Anyone who spends time looking at the terrain in which military ops can occur will notice that the Chinese video is a pointless boast. Yes there are areas where the Chinese can come in - but not as indicated. But not enough Indians seem to be willing to call the Chinese bluff and even fewer Indians seem to want to foist a counter bluff on the Chinese for them to want to say "mine is bigger".

Respect for China is as much an Indian meme as contempt for Pakistan. Far too much "respect for China" has been hardwired into Indian minds after 1962 than is good for free thinking

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 17 Jan 2017 09:04

Shiv your are assuming that the next Chinese land invasion will necessarily come from the north.
After initial feign attacks, when IA will be repositioned, the Chinese could approach from east or west.
Pak will be happy to host them, & Burma won't be able to prevent them if they chose to trespass.

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 17 Jan 2017 09:14

In the video posted on first page, at t=3:57 minutes there is a golf cart like vehicle with multiple tyres. Any one knows what that is

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 17 Jan 2017 09:14

Tibet is militarily indefensible. It's like Iraq with a good army rendered worthless because of American air dominance. There is no place to hide in this terrain. The roads and bridges and vehicle depots, barracks, rail lines,convoys will be vulnerable to Indian air power. Tibet has a limited number of airbases all of them exposed to satellite, air reconnaissance and signals intelligence. There is a large disaffected population that will immensely benefit Indian special forces who look Tibetan and speak the language infiltrating or in fact already placed.

India needs to target local airbases with missiles, Brahmos and others, remote airbases can be left alone as time over target along Indian military targets will be minimal for the Chinese. This will be the key to Indian war plans. I don't think they intend to fight in Assam next time. The Chinese dare not escalate. They are not that stupid.

nirav · Post by **nirav** » 17 Jan 2017 09:31

Rakesh wrote:
Gerard wrote:Does anyone have a link to actual Chinese reports or a credible newspaper that translated same? Or is this all from one twitter claim?
Gerard, Agni V has made them VERY nervous and VERY twitchy. All this rhona dhona is a result of that. We should lend (actually they can keep it!) them some dhotis to shiver in. We should also conduct a few more tests. I hope to see in my lifetime China getting humbled.

Think there's more to the test than what our goberment is letting us mango people know.
I'm guessing the Agony 4 test by SFC would be a bigger takleef as it demonstrates deployed capability..

But takleef is takleef, as long as it's the Chinese and bakis having it

I'm a little surprised with the direction this thread took for a bit, which even considered the possibility of the Chinese air lifting the 10 hour paras to Dilli !!
Vayu Sena kya karenge hain jee ?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 17 Jan 2017 09:42

AdityaM wrote:Shiv your are assuming that the next Chinese land invasion will necessarily come from the north.
After initial feign attacks, when IA will be repositioned, the Chinese could approach from east or west.
Pak will be happy to host them, & Burma won't be able to prevent them if they chose to trespass.

I am making absolutely no such assumptions. I was only speaking of the "north invasion" in the video. I would be happy for you to educate me about "feign attacks" from the north? Where and how?

Chinese invasions are most likely in the east - but I will speak more when I finish doing an analysis of the terrain and border on Google maps - which may take a few weeks.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 17 Jan 2017 09:48

nirav wrote: I'm a little surprised with the direction this thread took for a bit, which even considered the possibility of the Chinese air lifting the 10 hour paras to Dilli !!
Vayu Sena kya karenge hain jee ?

Every time China farts, Indians bow their heads and say "We will be screwed by China".

It is necessary to call out their farts for what they are. The boast that started this thread was a fart. We have allowed China to fart without any limit for far too long. But in general we are so intimidated by China our minds always shift to the next geographical, economic or military point where China will kick our sorry asses - if not this particular one. That is how far we get on BRF in looking at the "China threat"

Murugan · Post by **Murugan** » 17 Jan 2017 10:04

Read Vivek Ahuja's Chimera.

tandav · Post by **tandav** » 17 Jan 2017 11:23

The French Maginot line was bypassed by the Nazi Wahrmacht by going through Poland. CPEC/Karakoram Highway may represent a similar threat. China may/has already stationed its troops in Pakistan and is actively enhancing supply lines via Gwadar/Djibouti/Hambantota using the along the Thayer Mahanian lines. Most of these ports have little economic value but have extraordinary military value.

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 17 Jan 2017 11:33

If the PLA can move an invasion force across Karakorum highway undetected. Then we deserve to get our backside kicked.

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 17 Jan 2017 11:37

But they have to station them in Pak, supply them through POK and invade India from the west where we normally have huge force presence. Ports can not use with India controlling Both Arabian Sea and the Bay of Bengal.

You mean Austria and not Poland, right?

zoverian · Post by **zoverian** » 17 Jan 2017 11:52

Pratyush wrote:If the PLA can move an invasion force across Karakorum highway undetected. Then we deserve to get our backside kicked.

+1

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 17 Jan 2017 12:06

shiv wrote: Every time China farts, Indians bow their heads and say "We will be screwed by China". It is necessary to call out their farts for what they are. The boast that started this thread was a fart. We have allowed China to fart without any limit for far too long. But in general we are so intimidated by China our minds always shift to the next geographical, economic or military point where China will kick our sorry asses - if not this particular one. That is how far we get on BRF in looking at the "China threat"

Shiv - Thanks for bringing out this thread.

What you've written above is something one invariably comes across in every Sino-India analysis; be it by an arm-chair enthusiast or from respectable think-tanks like ORF or even some IDSA papers.

And I absolutely hate it. There is no balanced analysis of Indian and Chinese capabilities. Chinese have been made into these 7-foot giants; it is all about infrastructure which automatically gives such humongous advantage to Chinese that they'll win even before the first shot is fired.

Chinese can do this nonsensical propaganda of reaching New Delhi in 10 hours because - (a) the superiority of Chinese and their armed forces have already been drilled into their target audiences head (b) there are many who'll buy this hook, line and sinker.

Rather than mock such an idiotic statement, we'll have to rebut it with logical arguments. Simply because Chinese have already established a psychological superiority.

-----------------------------------------------

On a personal level, I don't have very good handle on PLA or PLAAF on the lines of what I know about PA and PAF. But I'm working on it and should reach a good level of understanding by February end.

In case I can contribute in any manner on the geographical bit with respect to LAC, please let me know. I can also put down Indian ORBAT for LAC in Ladakh, Central/Uttarakhand and NE sector for general reference.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 17 Jan 2017 13:07

While we were repeatedly invaded from the north (and east),we must remember how we lost India to the European firangs,from the south thanks to the superior maritime power of those navies.It is this dimension,also in the strat. sense that we will face the greatest chalknges If we do not beef up the IN with more ships,subs,infrastructure in the islands, A major diplomatic and military offensive to draw closer littoral nations to our side.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 17 Jan 2017 14:22

rohitvats wrote:
In case I can contribute in any manner on the geographical bit with respect to LAC, please let me know. I can also put down Indian ORBAT for LAC in Ladakh, Central/Uttarakhand and NE sector for general reference.

Sure thanks. Right now I have started scanning the border and surrounding areas on Google Earth kilometer by kilometer - marking whatever seems to be relevant.

Like my earlier study of Aksai Chin the idea that every single centimeter of border has a great Chinese road next to it with no Indian road nearby is itself a myth.

The other myth stems from the one we have heard so often - "Those who command the heights will dominate those below". The Chinese are 5000 meters up and we are 4500 meters below them - ergo they have already won.

No one has actually looked at a map to see how this works. In fact over very large areas impassable mountains preclude any sort of invasion. Even Chinese roads are necessarily build along river valleys - each of which has a tall mountainside going up on either side. Anyone on the road will be dominated by anyone who clambers up the mountainside. And there are only a few such access areas that allow access into India.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 17 Jan 2017 14:24

Philip wrote:While we were repeatedly invaded from the north (and east),we must remember how we lost India to the European firangs,from the south thanks to the superior maritime power of those navies.It is this dimension,also in the strat. sense that we will face the greatest chalknges If we do not beef up the IN with more ships,subs,infrastructure in the islands, A major diplomatic and military offensive to draw closer littoral nations to our side.

Philip this is a valid point but needs to be discussed separately. The army can do pretty much nothing here while the Navy can do little on the Himalayas. Only the air force is the common factor

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 17 Jan 2017 14:26

tandav wrote:China may/has already stationed its troops in Pakistan and is actively enhancing supply lines via Gwadar/Djibouti/Hambantota using the along the Thayer Mahanian lines. Most of these ports have little economic value but have extraordinary military value.

India has good intel assets in Pakistan and anything of the sort would be picked up very soon. India is also in a great position to cut off the Karakoram pass.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 17 Jan 2017 14:38

rohitvats wrote: What you've written above is something one invariably comes across in every Sino-India analysis; be it by an arm-chair enthusiast or from respectable think-tanks like ORF or even some IDSA papers.

Other than a few military (army/air force) people who dispute this and whose words are ignored or dismissed, this dismal dhoti shivering picture of having lost a war before it starts - everyone is busy beating their breasts and pointing out our desperate weakness. It is almost like Lata Mageshkar's plaintive cry about dying soldiers has been burned into the brains of Indians so we lament with tears in our eyes or anger at morons who disagree

There is zero analysis and zero attempts at analysis. Only plenty of lectures about why we are losing or have lost. China is busy fluffing up its feathers and acting big enough to beat America. Indians are in the unfortunate position of alternately seeing themselves as one with America and mocking China or as desis bowing their heads and weeping miserably about a lost cause. Chinese propaganda is basically created to intimidate and it works spectacularly well on Indians. We are thoroughly intimidated and fear to step out of this state of fear of China and refuse to see anything outside of the most general facts - all of which point towards our being a third rate non-power with no chance of winning even a pissing contest against China. If you call India a weak nation - no Indian objects. But anyone who speaks of Indian strengths has to be bashed down and made to shut up. What kind of analysis is possible with such preconceptions?

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 17 Jan 2017 14:45

Shiv quantity has a quality of its own. But any offensive that is not supported by good logistics is going to fail even before it gathered any steam. So PLA may have quantity they may have quality. But they will never have logistics . The so called offensive will fail even before it begins.

The PLA may with draw claiming to have thought us a lesson. But any serious Intel agency and every professional military will know what happened.

That PLA is nude and all India has to to do is hold the lines. India wins.

Dilbu · Post by **Dilbu** » 17 Jan 2017 15:53

Pratyush wrote:That PLA is nude and all India has to to do is hold the lines. India wins.

Sounds eerily similar to TSP's claim of we didn't get destroyed so we won argument they use to explain away their wars with India.

kit · Post by **kit** » 17 Jan 2017 16:26

May be its time to take off the "peacenik" gloves and build for an offensive defense .. and a first strike nuclear doctrine . The presence of PLA in Pakistan occupied Kashmir is enough reason to change the status quo.

kit · Post by **kit** » 17 Jan 2017 16:32

http://www.janes.com/article/66990/chin ... deployment

as an answer to the chinese .. i suggest impose 300 percent duty on all china made cosmetics and toys

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 17 Jan 2017 16:44

rohitvats wrote:
shiv wrote: Every time China farts, Indians bow their heads and say "We will be screwed by China". It is necessary to call out their farts for what they are. The boast that started this thread was a fart. We have allowed China to fart without any limit for far too long. But in general we are so intimidated by China our minds always shift to the next geographical, economic or military point where China will kick our sorry asses - if not this particular one. That is how far we get on BRF in looking at the "China threat"
Shiv - Thanks for bringing out this thread.

What you've written above is something one invariably comes across in every Sino-India analysis; be it by an arm-chair enthusiast or from respectable think-tanks like ORF or even some IDSA papers.

And I absolutely hate it. There is no balanced analysis of Indian and Chinese capabilities. Chinese have been made into these 7-foot giants; it is all about infrastructure which automatically gives such humongous advantage to Chinese that they'll win even before the first shot is fired.

Chinese can do this nonsensical propaganda of reaching New Delhi in 10 hours because - (a) the superiority of Chinese and their armed forces have already been drilled into their target audiences head (b) there are many who'll buy this hook, line and sinker.

If anyone reads history, then they'll find Lt. Gen. Sagat Singh fought a three-front war at nearly the same time and won all of them.

1. He didn't give in to leadership demand to cede Nathu La in 1965 though General Bewoor ceded Jelep La,
2. Fought the Chinese successfully at Nathu La in 1967
3. Drilled & Motivated his men to go to Lhasa
4. Fought the Mizo insurgency supported by Pakistan
5. Led to liberation of Bangladesh in 1971 via Meghna Helibridge

Sadly real history isnt taught at school.

When Education Minister RA Butler asked him about school curriculum, Churchill replied, "Tell the children how Wolfe took Quebec."

How long do I wait until how Sagat took Dhaka is taught at schools?

chola · Post by **chola** » 17 Jan 2017 17:01

Serious discussion. What does it take for us to retake Aksai Chin? Is it a matter of reversing our babus in Delli who are scared shitless by chinki propaganda or actual military folks who have analyzed the situation and are holding still?

If it is the former (and I think it is) then we should press to retake Aksai Chin. We need a movement and perhaps BR can start it. If it is the latter then it is still a good time to go to war with cheen since 1) the PLA hadn't fought a war in 4 decades and 2) the chini military will have their hands full with Trump where even the threat of US intervention will force most of their assets to stay east.

Retaking Aksai Chin is a mission we must take at some point. There is no down side to war with Cheen in the next four years.

Rishi Verma · Post by **Rishi Verma** » 17 Jan 2017 17:03

If the chinese leally leach dilly and if eleven jinping jumping ding become the lullel of dilli then I will get him mallied to mayawati and invite them to my lanch whel thel aal fake tigels and leal cows. mayawati will tleat him like amdedkal of chini pladesh and hump him leal good.

chola · Post by **chola** » 17 Jan 2017 17:15

kit wrote:http://www.janes.com/article/66990/chin ... deployment

as an answer to the chinese .. i suggest impose 300 percent duty on all china made cosmetics and toys

The Koreans have already done that. They run a massive trade surplus with the chinis. The same as Japan and Taiwan. Do we see a trend here?

The chinks can cheat whites and browns but have a tougher time with fellow chinkies.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 17 Jan 2017 17:32

Speaking of googal: Take a look at posted photos of places there. With the (false) names given by (chinese, hu else?) ppl. What stops some patient BRFee from posting real photos and real names of places in Northern Arunachal, all the say to uLhasaNagaram, with Mt. Appunni, Mt. Parukutty, the KaithaChal Valley, Kuttappan Ridge, all marked with their proper names, hain? Long ago I had sent some photos taken there, to a certain postor who has been doing intense cartographically aggressive research. I am sure I still have some of those...

You first have to look at places as being yours, and call them by their proper names, before you can go and occupy them. Have you learned NOTHING from the British, hain? Why do you think they gave all those stupid names to places when they can't even say the proper names because they don't clean their black tongues? Like "Calcutta" or Cawnpore, or Cranganore or Trivandrum.

For example, I hear of "SiaChen". U mean SitaBen, don't u? "Saltoro Ridge", WTF is "Saltoro"? U mean Appunni Ridge, named after the Malloostani hero Shipai who died fighting there, barefoot with only a 303 that had no bullets. Killed 357 Chinese by accurately throwing a grenade which triggered an avalanche, which sadly claimed his life as well. Maestro at bringing down mangoes in Kerala in his childhood.

Start with Pt. (parvat) KanchanaGanga. Parvat, not "Mount-ain". British always think of "mounting" like Sarah Ferguson and her horse instructor under the tree in the Holy Rood Palace grounds in EdinBrah. The French saw 2 great Local Maxima of elevation on the Wyoming/Montana border of Yellowstone, and what did they name them?

Grand Teton. I am too well-brought-up to explain what that means in Classical Francaise.

We respect great majestic heights. So call them Pt.

"Aksai CHIN"? Hain? U mean Akshay Cheen meaning Endless Sugar. Look at the google map of the desert there to understand why.

chola · Post by **chola** » 17 Jan 2017 17:54

UlanBatori wrote: "Aksai CHIN"? Hain? U mean Akshay Cheen meaning Endless Sugar. Look at the google map of the desert there to understand why.

I agree, sahib. But please forgive me for using the same term that the DDM uses. I've been led wayward by the TOI, Indian Express, the (C)Hindu, etc.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 17 Jan 2017 17:57

Good point about the air force.However,air power everywhere adds to success.What the GOI should do with the also IAF getting realistic,is to acquire sev. sqds of aircraft already in service like UG 29s,acelerate LCA production and buy (despite the huge cost),at least another 2 Rafale sqds. 4 Rafale sqds along wihth the 110+ 29UGs and UG M2Ks, will make for over 180 med. multi-role aircraft. Add 270+ MKIs,120 LCAs and another 120+ UG Jags ,120 Bisons and one gets a reasonable min. force of approx.800+ aircraft,with Bisons progressively being replaced by LCAs.If you add another 2+ sqds of Ru std. FGFA/T-50s,we will have enough modern aircraft to deal with Pak and China in any surprise JV. There's little pointin another "screwdriver" single-engine fighter,esp ancient Yanqui hags,when even the air chief has said "200 medium fighters would be good".

Increasing the IN's role in securing maritime airspace with extra UG 29Ks,backfires for LR maritime strike etc.,IAF MKIs can be used to beef up our capability on our borders with China/Tibet and Pak. Acquiring naval Rafales could be looked at for the second carrier,but since that will only arrive a decade hence,it would be better for it to possess naval variants of the FGFA stealth bird and upgraded 29Ks with AESA radars,new BVR and WVR AAMs, and BMos-M. The IAF would also do well to acquire at least the SU-34 for a dedicated bombing role,though backfires for it too would be a great asset.In any spat with China,we must be able to destroy at several places,the Tibet-Beijing rail link,Karakorum Highway and Chinese airfields/bases in Tibet. The use of special forces to make raids into Tibet disrupting/destroying assets of the Tibetan highway is also essential.This calls for more heavylift helos like Chinooks/MI-26s,C-130s and lightweight armour/arty that can be airlifted to fight on the Tibetan plateau.

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 17 Jan 2017 18:05

chola wrote:
UlanBatori wrote: "Aksai CHIN"? Hain? U mean Akshay Cheen meaning Endless Sugar. Look at the google map of the desert there to understand why.
I agree, sahib. But please forgive me for using the same term that the DDM uses. I've been led wayward by the TOI, Indian Express, the (C)Hindu, etc.

Not too late to mend your erroneous ways and return to the Dharmic path. We tend to sit around

that the Rakshasas dominate everything. But all one has to do is start along the right path and keep moving. Eliminate ignorance. Start calling places by their real names based on the PurAnas - what do these ignorant savages know?

Let's take it from the top. "Mt. Everest" indeed. OK, maybe his superior officer did indeed mount him, but why should we care? The peak has a holy name, use it. Gauri-Shankar. "K-2"? U mean Kishkindha. "MakaLu"? U mean MakaraVelu, of Arakonam, TN.

Actually "Tibet" is a name given by Turkish savages. There is a holy name for that land from long before. But for now, "Purva Arunachal" should do fine unless you want to call it Lakshmikkutty Desam after the lady who prepared the first detailed map of the place.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 17 Jan 2017 18:39

^^^All of those names are not Chinese in origin. Their origination is in the local language - whether Ladakhi or Balti.

srin · Post by **srin** » 17 Jan 2017 18:48

shiv wrote: Sure thanks. Right now I have started scanning the border and surrounding areas on Google Earth kilometer by kilometer - marking whatever seems to be relevant.

Like my earlier study of Aksai Chin the idea that every single centimeter of border has a great Chinese road next to it with no Indian road nearby is itself a myth.

The other myth stems from the one we have heard so often - "Those who command the heights will dominate those below". The Chinese are 5000 meters up and we are 4500 meters below them - ergo they have already won.

No one has actually looked at a map to see how this works. In fact over very large areas impassable mountains preclude any sort of invasion. Even Chinese roads are necessarily build along river valleys - each of which has a tall mountainside going up on either side. Anyone on the road will be dominated by anyone who clambers up the mountainside. And there are only a few such access areas that allow access into India.

Please also include the possibility of coming through Nepal or Bhutan or Myanmar, where the local forces may not be strong enough or unwilling to confront the Chinese, despite terrain advantages. For instance, Chumbi valley - Bhutan - Siliguri is a possibility.

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 17 Jan 2017 19:40

Yagnasri wrote:You mean Austria and not Poland, right?

Belgium and Netherlands (the Low Countries - not that it matters).