Indian IT Industry

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 01 Feb 2017 20:53

Here is a possible scenario from the DT in a china shop.

With DT putting restrictions and curbs on blatant misuse and fraud by some desi companies, a lot of desi H1Bs are spooked. My wife works with a few of them and this is news I got from her. DT is not one to worry about what people think about him so he will drive this forward and prosecute and hold them up as an example, so these companies need to beware. A coworker just told me that he has asked his people to investigate companies who have hired more than 50% foreign workers. That will unearth more fraud and illegal practices. DT may cause other changes that are unknown at this point.

This could cause an exodus of H1B workers back to India. That will result in a lot of supply of people in India and fewer jobs, so getting a job will become harder (just like how it was in the US all these years because of people flooding in). Salaries will be depressed and getting a bonus will be a lucky thing. On the other hand, the housing market will see some resurgence after DeMo because of more people needing housing.

With H1Bs moving out, the low end housing market in the US will also get affected and prices will fall. Apartments will have more trouble getting people to stay.

SRoy · Post by **SRoy** » 01 Feb 2017 20:59

All good for us.

I hope all the turds that have rode the IT bandwagon get chucked out.

The amount of work flowing to India will not reduce. Salaries will reduce and that would push out gold diggers.

Let's see how the MNC's justify 2 PMs, 3 Architects, 1 Director and assorted support troops sitting atop 2 developers.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Feb 2017 21:02

a lot of older desis bay area invested their ESOP takings into multiple condo buys and have been making hay for 10-15 years now with huge rents...

he rents in SV will come down from upper to lower atmosphere.

shravanp · Post by **shravanp** » 01 Feb 2017 21:11

KJo wrote:with H1Bs moving out, the low end housing market in the US will also get affected and prices will fall. Apartments will have more trouble getting people to stay.

Why just housing market, even the rental market will be hit big time. I rent out condo to h1-b guys and its reliable source of rental income.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Feb 2017 21:17

this was one of the univs raided last year

the founder of this univ got a 16 yr jail term

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Feb 2017 21:19

DTs new hardcase immigration czar and his 10k new agents are going to have a field day playing SOCOM on this lot and riding roughshod, backed to the hilt by D.C.

best would be for these shady outfits to close shop asap unless sarkari daal and roti && chakki peesna is not their plan-A

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 01 Feb 2017 21:21

SRoy wrote:All good for us.

I hope all the turds that have rode the IT bandwagon get chucked out.

The amount of work flowing to India will not reduce. Salaries will reduce and that would push out gold diggers.

Let's see how the MNC's justify 2 PMs, 3 Architects, 1 Director and assorted support troops sitting atop 2 developers.

I am not sure how you deduced that work to India will not reduce. What is the logic?
DT seems to be looking to put tariffs of some sort, so if you send your work overseas, you will pay some tax. He does not seem to be the type to allow loopholes when he is making a big song and dance about things.

The only situation work in India will remain the same is if the companies find other clients like UK or Europe or elsewhere and build an internal market instead of depending on the US.

csubash · Post by **csubash** » 01 Feb 2017 21:23

KJo wrote:Here is a possible scenario from the DT in a china shop.

With DT putting restrictions and curbs on blatant misuse and fraud by some desi companies, a lot of desi H1Bs are spooked. My wife works with a few of them and this is news I got from her. DT is not one to worry about what people think about him so he will drive this forward and prosecute and hold them up as an example, so these companies need to beware. A coworker just told me that he has asked his people to investigate companies who have hired more than 50% foreign workers. That will unearth more fraud and illegal practices. DT may cause other changes that are unknown at this point.

This could cause an exodus of H1B workers back to India. That will result in a lot of supply of people in India and fewer jobs, so getting a job will become harder (just like how it was in the US all these years because of people flooding in). Salaries will be depressed and getting a bonus will be a lucky thing. On the other hand, the housing market will see some resurgence after DeMo because of more people needing housing.

With H1Bs moving out, the low end housing market in the US will also get affected and prices will fall. Apartments will have more trouble getting people to stay.

It was the blatant misuse & fraud of the land & resources by the white masters is what made US of today. Perching on a high horse & preaching to the others now looks a bit silly. Agree Indians has nothing to complain. I feel this is nothing but a racist White Western nation showing its ugly other side when its white interests are threatened rather than some moral holy c**p

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 01 Feb 2017 21:34

On the positive side, it all may be a blessing in disguise.

Maybe many talented people will go back and create startup companies and build great products instead of being stuck in dead-end jobs here working for the gora. Make in India is a big initiative so they can get help from that.

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 01 Feb 2017 21:41

Singha wrote:the biggies have been building up in canada, mexico and brazil to offer same time zone services for things that need interaction.

That is correct, there will be others who will benefit from such knee jerk reactions.

But it was Obama who actually started all this cleansing, he almost closed the tap on other visa programs like L1 and B1, which were heavily misused earlier. This, instead of deterring our IT honchos, moved them towards exploiting H1 program.

This would have happened with or without DT, it was a ticking timebomb.

Zynda · Post by **Zynda** » 01 Feb 2017 22:51

Even Canada is tightening their visa schemes after they realized it was being misused to serve US clients instead of Canadian ones. Thats what a friend of mine in Kanada told me. Mexico and probably Brazil are the newer destinations. Mexico at least cannot (unless pressurized from US) say NO to Desi ITES establishing office, although they may bring in "hire locals" clauses.

Melwyn · Post by **Melwyn** » 02 Feb 2017 02:04

I am moving my thoughts from the Understanding the US thread where some American Hindus are bashing yet to be American Hindus for being poor quality. This based on my experience/memory in the field of IT fwiw.

Engineering talent in US also is pretty uneven across ethnicities. I've seen good and bad Indians, Chinese, White and ~~African Americans~~ across companies. Indians get bad rap partly because of inherent racism and the staffing policies of the desi cos who hire Java developer and send them on sys admin assignment.

I remember when I started my career in a consultancy in India, I was surrounded by people from top tier institutions like IITs, BHU, IISC etc. It was real pleasure to work and learn from these people who were as sharp as you can get. Many of them were from non-CS streams like Mechanical Eng but quickly picked up stuff and became experts. Moreover these people were stable in their jobs and worked in the same company for years. These people represented Indian cos in the 90s and early 2000s.

The drop in quality of engineers from Desi IT Cos coincided with the arrival of US based product MNCs in India in early/mid 2000s. They sucked out all the talent from top tier universities, colleges and Indian companies. Also, these companies did not provide H1B or other types of visas which kept the talent at home. What was left was typically the bottom of the barrel stuff from 3rd/4th tier institutes. Once this crowd entered the IT Cos, they became the face of Indian IT. The cost of training and mentoring was huge for IT Cos and given the habit of job hopping amongst gen-x, they had to recover that cost in typical two year bond period. In late 90s/early 2000s getting Wipro to come to your campus hiring used to be a thing of pride. Fast forward to 2017 and no one cares about companies like Wipro and Infy in the top tier institutions. Add to that the rampant corruption and inflation during UPA years has put pressure on the salary structure while rates have stagnated from clients. A 4-5lakh per annum package for new grad was considered good even till mid 2000s. Now most good product companies hand out 20lakh plus for new grads from 2nd tier institution. However, the salary range for desi and MNC consultancy companies have stagnated. I've interviewed candidates who are paid less than what I got as a new engineer over a decade ago, not adjusted for inflation. In top tier institutes, most of the students opt for MS nowadays as they no longer see India as an IT destination, the dream of making India an IT powerhouse is all but dead.

BTW, the constant rant of Indians being not good enough echoes even in the product companies which hire top talent from top tier Indian institutes. This is also used as an excuse to not let Indians handle high quality work in India. Heady mix of politics and racism.

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 02 Feb 2017 02:48

^^There was a post here which said fewer IITians as a percentage go to the US these days.
The companies themselves are confident of moving to high end work and getting more work.

The noise against H1 has been there for some time. They must have a plan B by now.

The worst downturn in the industry resulted in more outsourcing.

The quality of education in India is not static either. There are more people attending primary school which will feed the higher educational institutes. To an extent quality will come from quantity.

Added Later:
There are also people who want quality education and are willing to pay for it. That means higher salaries, better faculty and better students.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 02 Feb 2017 02:53

amit, I agree with what you are saying.
It is a reality of life that there is only a small number of people who are very smart, a bigger number who are smart and most are in the middle and there is a section who are not capable at all for intellectual work. This is not just in India but in the US and every other country.

I think what's happened is that after Y2K when US cos realized they could outsource, they did it in huge numbers. That's why TCS and INFY hired in 10s of thousands. Now all the super smart and smart ones got jobs easily even when the jobs were scarce and competitive. Now the middle tier got jobs easily also and shockingly many incompetent people also got IT jobs. Now they could not spell or do math or logically think (or behave), but they were now a "IT professional" making a good enough salary. Heck, I cannot blame them for going along for the ride. Companies would come to schools and hire entire batches. So the smart ones got jobs along with the nincompoops.

But it is a rule of life that such a great situation would not last forever. People who got pulled into it are lucky and hopefully many made use of the break.

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 02 Feb 2017 02:55

Zynda wrote:Even Canada is tightening their visa schemes after they realized it was being misused to serve US clients instead of Canadian ones. Thats what a friend of mine in Kanada told me. Mexico and probably Brazil are the newer destinations. Mexico at least cannot (unless pressurized from US) say NO to Desi ITES establishing office, although they may bring in "hire locals" clauses.

Not really new. Probably a decade old.

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 02 Feb 2017 03:20

Sid wrote:
Singha wrote:the biggies have been building up in canada, mexico and brazil to offer same time zone services for things that need interaction.
That is correct, there will be others who will benefit from such knee jerk reactions.

But it was Obama who actually started all this cleansing, he almost closed the tap on other visa programs like L1 and B1, which were heavily misused earlier. This, instead of deterring our IT honchos, moved them towards exploiting H1 program.

This would have happened with or without DT, it was a ticking timebomb.

The number of h1's on the pay rolls of the big Indian IT companies are a small fraction of the total. There are many American consulting companies too who hire a lot of H1s. Many of the annual quota of Indian H1s start out with desi body shops, some eventually moving to full time positions in American companies.

I would think the Indian companies are not totally sitting ducks. They will suffer reduction in margins or pass on the cost to the client. If you look at top h1 employers, outside the big 3 or 4, most are American companies and they pay well. They is no need for them to hire H1s for cheap pay reasons. They could have as well hired local talent but there is not enough of it going around, IMO.

ranjan.rao · Post by **ranjan.rao** » 02 Feb 2017 03:30

amitkv wrote: Rant on:
BTW, the constant rant of Indians being not good enough echoes even in the product companies which hire top talent from top tier Indian institutes. This is also used as an excuse to not let Indians handle high quality work in India. Heady mix of politics and racism.

I would not agree to that, sitting in India I interviewed kids from top IIMs(ABCLIK), DSE, IGIDR, even IITs(MS from D/K) what I found was that the quality and rigour has been falling significantly. This coupled with millenial attitude of #YOLO doesnot help. Not to say that my predecessors would not have thought the same about me, but early or mid 2000 kids were hungry, hard working and very focussed on an average. I do not see it that prevalant these days.

hanumadu · Post by **hanumadu** » 02 Feb 2017 03:37

Singha wrote:DTs new hardcase immigration czar and his 10k new agents are going to have a field day playing SOCOM on this lot and riding roughshod, backed to the hilt by D.C.

best would be for these shady outfits to close shop asap unless sarkari daal and roti && chakki peesna is not their plan-A

Actually they might come off better than the rest in this whole saga. Start ups with less than 50 employees have some leeway in one of the bills.

Every body in the USA knows about them but there has been a wink wink, nod nod attitude so far apart from the occasional much publicized raid. Their employees eventually work for one of the big American companies. With new rules, they have to be above board completely or shut shop. The companies that depended on them for contract workers will have to hire directly or pay much higher or offshore the work.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 02 Feb 2017 07:25

the kids these days are very jugaad type. given a problem , my generation had no recourse but to read books , try it outself or at most discuss with friends.

cut to today - there are so many sources of code online, people can stop thinking and copy paste with minor mods. copying is rampant. YOLO is rampant. evenings are for staying back at co and having a good time socializing at chai point with opp gender than reading richard stevens tcp/ip or henessey comp arch . people have bikes early, malls are nearby. broadband universally at home. credit cards. organized events ranging to beer bashes to treks.

our generation lived and worked like monks due to very less such distractions.

at the same time there are some very brilliant and versatile kids and some of them end up in the highest paying product MNCs here. some go to startups. some go for phd. some to IIM.

Atmavik · Post by **Atmavik** » 02 Feb 2017 08:57

Singha wrote:the kids these days are very jugaad type. given a problem , my generation had no recourse but to read books , try it outself or at most discuss with friends.

cut to today - there are so many sources of code online, people can stop thinking and copy paste with minor mods. copying is rampant. YOLO is rampant. evenings are for staying back at co and having a good time socializing at chai point with opp gender than reading richard stevens tcp/ip or henessey comp arch . people have bikes early, malls are nearby. broadband universally at home. credit cards. organized events ranging to beer bashes to treks.

our generation lived and worked like monks due to very less such distractions.

at the same time there are some very brilliant and versatile kids and some of them end up in the highest paying product MNCs here. some go to startups. some go for phd. some to IIM.

some become teachers and help out Mango people like me. this dude is one of the best out there.

Gate Lectures by Ravindrababu Ravula

https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCJjC1h ... f0vdTC6wAQ

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 02 Feb 2017 09:05

Yes there is a section of brilliant sadhu margdarshak types too ...they influence 100s of people...i also met one such a lecturer then at nitw who later went to amrika for phd . His thinking was rigourous and notches above the others. He inspired all the good students to skip the campus job and study further wherever we could. His earthly possessions were a chair where he sat and a bamboo mat he spread for visiting students. His name was B.Shanmugasundaram

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 02 Feb 2017 11:42

top h1 sponsors list MSFT and GOOG seem big on it

http://bangaloremirror.indiatimes.com/b ... 898376.cms

Atmavik · Post by **Atmavik** » 03 Feb 2017 01:23

An Indian software Engineer Mr. Abdulqadir Rashik won a contest @UN.

https://unite.un.org/ideas/content/link ... ble-cities

1st place - Author: Mr. Abdulqadir Rashik - Links to Sustainable Cities, an interactive data visualization, presents the viewer with flows that depict how differently classified links are proportionally divided between the various SDGs. The visualization extracts links from documents classified either causal links, barriers, or recommendations.

The width of the flow into any SDG is proportional to the number of links between it and SDG 11. For example, one can easily infer that the number of links to SDG 14 "Life below Water" is very small, whereas the most number of links were found to SDG 8 "Decent Work and Economic Growth". The actual number and breakdown of links into its different types is shown at the bottom center when hovering upon any SDG.

Clicking on any individual SDG allows a user to drill down into a detailed breakdown that displays the link types and the text of the links. Further filtering the links based on their type is also possible. Links have not been classified based on directionality, so links of the same type are grouped together regardless of link direction.

raj-senthil · Post by **raj-senthil** » 03 Feb 2017 03:03

Indian IT firms need to stop using H1-B visas, says Infosys founder Narayana Murthy

Probably he needs to turn back to Vishal Sikka and give this advice..

Marten · Post by **Marten** » 03 Feb 2017 07:59

Hypocrite number one forgets his own fortune is from exploiting the visa loopholes, and blatant illegal usage of business visas. Imagine the gall, advising the industry when his own firm is the largest consumer of H1 visas!

And this chap was going to be promoted by INC for Prez!!!
Nilekani must imagine he has a better chance now than the ~~venereal~~ venerable old man.

vivek_v · Post by **vivek_v** » 03 Feb 2017 09:21

As long as their company has a branch office in India and they are in technical roles then it should not be an issue and could try to weather the storm in US itself. The problem would be with engineers who are in a client facing roles and for whom there is no branch office back in India.

I am really sad for those who have bought houses and for those whose kids are studying in the US who might be affected by the H1B ban. In addition to coming back and trying to finding a job, they would need to find accommodation and proper schooling for their kids.

If the proposed slab of $130K goes through, then it won't be pretty for sure in the short term.In the medium to long term, the proposed change might be beneficial to India with more R&D and high-end jobs moving here.

Marten · Post by **Marten** » 03 Feb 2017 09:39

vivek_v wrote:As long as their company has a branch office in India and they are in technical roles then it should not be an issue and could try to weather the storm in US itself. The problem would be with engineers who are in a client facing roles and for whom there is no branch office back in India.

I am really sad for those who have bought houses and for those whose kids are studying in the US who might be affected by the H1B ban. In addition to coming back and trying to finding a job, they would need to find accommodation and proper schooling for their kids.

If the proposed slab of $130K goes through, then it won't be pretty for sure in the short term.In the medium to long term, the proposed change might be beneficial to India with more R&D and high-end jobs moving here.

Those that did would already know how the markets are, and about how job security is minimal in the US. They took a calculated risk. Feeling empathy is fine, but the task of finding schooling and acccomodation etc. is a normal life event and should not be considered a big deal. A large number of folks plan for a tenure of 5 years. Those that want to stay longer are the ones affected. Rest will adjust and enjoy the benefits of higher offshore rates in the long-term.

rahulm · Post by **rahulm** » 03 Feb 2017 09:59

Singha wrote:the kids these days are very jugaad type. given a problem , my generation had no recourse but to read books , try it outself or at most discuss with friends.

cut to today - there are so many sources of code online, people can stop thinking and copy paste with minor mods. copying is rampant. YOLO is rampant. evenings are for staying back at co and having a good time socializing at chai point with opp gender than reading richard stevens tcp/ip or henessey comp arch . people have bikes early, malls are nearby. broadband universally at home. credit cards. organized events ranging to beer bashes to treks.

our generation lived and worked like monks due to very less such distractions.

at the same time there are some very brilliant and versatile kids and some of them end up in the highest paying product MNCs here. some go to startups. some go for phd. some to IIM.

Nice summary.

While Massa occupies mind and forum space, the 457 class visa abuse happening in Oz is also bad.

Sometimes, I wonder how many of the 457 IT girls and boys are even in the industry. Coding standards are shoddy and soft skills are poor. I once made the terrible mistake of having one such light bulb present a section of my paper to a few Board members. In short, my life was darkness for a long time after this 'creme de la creme ' finished his presentation.

Grammar all effed up, no eye contact, speaking at Gatiman speeds ( 500 words per minute without any punctuation ) it reflects badly on me. Worst of all, they are not open to any feedback. They feel since they have a 457, a KTM bike and car at home and at least a flat or two booked they have nothing more to learn.

One chap turned up for a steering committee meeting in a suit, tie and sandals.

The Executive Sponsor of this $40 million project looked quizzically at me across the table. I felt like Sita who wanted the earth to swallow her. Yes, I know, we need to export Indic culture and create Bata Sandak sandal soft power in Aussie Board rooms - but not happening when my neck is on the line. Thanks.

It sounds terrible, but I am very careful and choosy about fronting up any 457 holders in any meeting where my boss or above are present. I vet them for presentation and soft skills first, have them do a few dummy runs before I let ththem m in. That's exactly what I learnt and did when I landed in Oz the first time. Please, call me any manner of names you want. That's ok.

Some of them are good technically, these I nurture but keep away from any executive corridors until they pass my criteria to present and engage. I do mention their names in meetings to give them credit.

It's not that there are well rounded ones, there are, but they are not as common as I would like. Surprisingly, mynexperi ncr has been, girls do better than boys in thes big meetings. They listen more and talk carefully. Well, I feel girls, generally, are more socially sensitive and aware and have better EQ. We need a PMSKY -- Soft Skills Yogjna complete with a cess

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Feb 2017 10:34

yes without a doubt girls on avg have better EQ and better presentation skills as well. also the minds of older male board members run a bit slower in cpu clock cycles when a nice girl is presenting and they accept things more at face value vs quizzing a man hard.

our gen had no real concept of comms skills or pptgiri being taught at school. whoever was good was naturally good and whoever was bad or passable never got much practice or training at it...until after entering the workforce. so "100xbusy slides with 30 lines of dense text" or "reading out the slides only" or "not roving the audience with the eyes" is a common trait

the next wave lined up on the CTOL cats is different though. in the urban private schools atleast, "show and tell" and "class projects followed by a joint talk" is part and parcel weekly from UKG level upwards. I see the chalak munnas and munnis roaming around and I am confident even though its a second language they can charm the horse out from under a fat gora

the first wave got shot down, the next wave is gonna be different...

in programming I sort the routes based on ascending degree of dhamma

#1 copy the code from pals/web with no understanding how it works
#2 copy code with understanding and actually typing it out and testing it to get how it works
#3 come up with own solution however ugly and make it work by grinding ones nose to wheel. test all failure modes. - this was my approach
#4 spend additional time refining and honing it and seeing how to make it faster/cleaner/leaner - this is the approach of those who do well in hackathons/"ACM contests" and so on - the elite - da shaap end of the speah. and there are many now in india - some post in quora in details of how they work - they are great in algorithms and get snapped up by the top payers of the day like msft / amzn / fbook et al. some move into finance quants as well. they are very disciplined and humble usually. killing programming problems is their thing and they do it really well. a subset might be really good at people skills also - they might turn out to be entrepreneurs and make a lot of money, create jobs etc.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Feb 2017 11:26

interesting data here
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/tec ... 945718.cms

Yayavar · Post by **Yayavar** » 03 Feb 2017 12:28

Marten wrote:Hypocrite number one forgets his own fortune is from exploiting the visa loopholes, and blatant illegal usage of business visas. Imagine the gall, advising the industry when his own firm is the largest consumer of H1 visas!

And this chap was going to be promoted by INC for Prez!!!
Nilekani must imagine he has a better chance now than the ~~venereal~~ venerable old man.

ha ha! True. ... but then there are the 'creme-de-la-creme' who now want to shut door on others since they (claim they) spotted a few dregs...
It happens.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 03 Feb 2017 13:15

Singha wrote:top h1 sponsors list MSFT and GOOG seem big on it

http://bangaloremirror.indiatimes.com/b ... 898376.cms

INFY has 2x the number of h1 filings vs the next largest TCS

Raghz · Post by **Raghz** » 03 Feb 2017 16:37

Singha wrote:the kids these days are very jugaad type. given a problem , my generation had no recourse but to read books , try it outself or at most discuss with friends.

cut to today - there are so many sources of code online, people can stop thinking and copy paste with minor mods. copying is rampant. YOLO is rampant. evenings are for staying back at co and having a good time socializing at chai point with opp gender than reading richard stevens tcp/ip or henessey comp arch . people have bikes early, malls are nearby. broadband universally at home. credit cards. organized events ranging to beer bashes to treks.

our generation lived and worked like monks due to very less such distractions.

at the same time there are some very brilliant and versatile kids and some of them end up in the highest paying product MNCs here. some go to startups. some go for phd. some to IIM.

Excellent set of posts. I have observed this many a time. I think the state of the Indian IT industry can be mapped based on the decade the average IT employee was born.

Born in 1960s -> Graduates in 1980s. There was virtually no IT industry. What was available was probably in IISc or ISRO etc. Extremely limited option hence only the cream of the cream could enter.

Born in 1970s -> Typical schools / colleges would be government aided with 60-70 students in a classroom. Science used to be thought in a class room rather than a lab. R&D and experimentation was discouraged since resources were low. This generation graduated in 1990s (myself and I guess you and many others). Very limited number of IT companies were available. All companies used to be very choosy with aptitude and problem solving tests. This ensured that the above average entered the work stream in the first place. Once on the job, we were working on platforms which were not developer friendly like today. I remember the constant "Core dump" messages from my HP-UX and Sun Solaris terminals. Being good in logic was a given. However, one had to struggle to find out what the problem was and find a solution. There was no Google. Most of the times, the help file was useless. There was no shortcut.

Internet was super slow with modem connections. There was hardly any distraction including TV which had only DD, Zee TV, MTV and STAR Sports. I loved working late nights with buddies.

This was also the initial wave of body shopping generation + Y2K, which make immigration easier.

Born in 1980s -> Typical school were still of the earlier standard. Graduates in 2000s. This is where the decay began I think. Demand for IT professionals was more than the supply. The high entry bar set earlier had to be compromised for the sake of revenue and growth. Graduates from all sorts of disciplines who had no knowledge of IT, (forget having a passion for IT) entered the workforce just for the sake of onsite opportunity and high pay. In the 2000s, IT was the highest paying industry in the country for an average graduate. Pay at traditional Mechanical / Civil engineering was pathetic.

Born in 1990s -> Graduates in 2010s. This generation is the latest one entering the workforce. They are the most privileged with high speed internet and Google being available from college days. The education system was not reformed enough to make them experiment and learn on their own. Also, IT remains the top paying industry and absorbs quite a large number of graduates. This is the generation which relies on Google to solve their problem. Neither have they experienced the joblessness of 1980s nor can they see the silent advent of Artificial Intelligence killing their jobs in the future. Their job shelf life would probably be 10 years. If that happens, one can only imagine the chaos in the society at large.

The teaching / coaching to kids nowadays is a lot different from what it was. This is true for big cities. I do not know about smaller towns / villages, which I suspect do not do enough to feed the knowledge hunger of the student. As you say, it is this generation which looks promising. However, before this generation enters the workforce they would probably be severe pain in terms of downturns and joblosses for the not-upto-the-mark IT professionals.

Subdas · Post by **Subdas** » 03 Feb 2017 20:44

The market, for whom the IT industry churns out software solutions, has also changed a lot. Let us no just blame the workers entering the work force now. From our days, when DOS was just giving way to Windows, the market could wait for 1 year to get a release of a software. We had more time to read, investigate, research etc. But now, the time to market has shrunk to 1 week, in many cases. So , the folks have no time to read or research or fine tune. They got to hit the nail the first time and hit it right and put the next release out in the market every few weeks. Another thing to keep in mind that in our days, we had to spend a lot of time writing infrastructure code such as log management, memory management, thread management etc etc. Bu these days not only are these code available as components, even application code is available as components so the coding is becoming less and less and the effort is shifting towards configuring the components which needs more of domain skills rather than programming skills. Hence programming skills are no more needed and hence the perceived lack of quality. IT is moving where people with domain skills are in demand now.

Atmavik · Post by **Atmavik** » 04 Feb 2017 00:19

sdas1645 wrote:The market, for whom the IT industry churns out software solutions, has also changed a lot. Let us no just blame the workers entering the work force now. From our days, when DOS was just giving way to Windows, the market could wait for 1 year to get a release of a software. We had more time to read, investigate, research etc. But now, the time to market has shrunk to 1 week, in many cases. So , the folks have no time to read or research or fine tune. They got to hit the nail the first time and hit it right and put the next release out in the market every few weeks. Another thing to keep in mind that in our days, we had to spend a lot of time writing infrastructure code such as log management, memory management, thread management etc etc. Bu these days not only are these code available as components, even application code is available as components so the coding is becoming less and less and the effort is shifting towards configuring the components which needs more of domain skills rather than programming skills. Hence programming skills are no more needed and hence the perceived lack of quality. IT is moving where people with domain skills are in demand now.

In addition there are a lot of help full tools available like IDE plugins that analyses code quality.

Vikas · Post by **Vikas** » 04 Feb 2017 00:24

We Injuns will figure out something if H1-B gets harder to get.
Actually with H1-B pay raise, It is the American companies that will eventually feel the heat due to raised billing rates. As much as they try, Americans will find it hard to get back to Tech due to shortage of skill set as well CEO's being used to getting IT work done at a fraction of cost.

KJo · Post by **KJo** » 04 Feb 2017 00:28

VikasRaina wrote:We Injuns will figure out something if H1-B gets harder to get.
Actually with H1-B pay raise, It is the American companies that will eventually feel the heat due to raised billing rates. As much as they try, Americans will find it hard to get back to Tech due to shortage of skill set as well CEO's being used to getting IT work done at a fraction of cost.

I think most H1Bs will go back to India and then take the knowledge and experience and create great companies that will make a dent in the Indian universe.

No, not joking, I am sure at least a small percentage of really smart people will actually do something great and relevant to India and solve India's problems. That is what India needs to focus on rather than just low end work. And we all know that there are smart people will get affected.

Some people who just ran after the pot of gold but have no IT aptitude will go into other professions as they cannot sustain the churn.

Americans will be fine too. But it will take some time. There will be short term shortage but then entry level jobs will open up and people will get into that. The good ones will rise up. Things will be more fair and they won't have to compete with 25 year old Ravindra with 12 years of work experience including launching 3 startups.

No one is indispensable. The world will go on onleee...

Melwyn · Post by **Melwyn** » 04 Feb 2017 00:49

Lets get back to IT industry and stop H1B discussion. I think we have wasted enough time on a topic which depends on some unknown thing being done in the unknown corner of gora ghar.

Atmavik · Post by **Atmavik** » 04 Feb 2017 03:10

Aminullahs please start a H1B thread to save the other threads.

Rishirishi · Post by **Rishirishi** » 04 Feb 2017 06:19

Need some advice here. Our company outsourced and now we are blessed with freshers marketed as professionals.
My question is. what would be the salary level for hardcore SAP professionals with at least 8-10 years of genuine experiance.