Artillery: News & Discussion

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 25 Jan 2017 13:03

Gagan wrote:Cold start also needs a truck mounted, highly mobile 105mm field artillery gun.
Each advancing party takes care of any local resistance / troop concentration it meets.

Something like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRaMiC6AjXo

Didn't Tata (or was it OFB) make such a system a few years back???

Avinandan · Post by **Avinandan** » 25 Jan 2017 13:35

Bala Vignesh wrote:
Gagan wrote:Cold start also needs a truck mounted, highly mobile 105mm field artillery gun.
Each advancing party takes care of any local resistance / troop concentration it meets.

Something like this
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hRaMiC6AjXo

Didn't Tata (or was it OFB) make such a system a few years back???

"TATA Power’s first truck-mounted version of the 105mm India Field Gun Mk2, which was co-developed with the MoD-owned Ordnance Factory Board (OFB)."

Courtesy: trishul-trident.blogspot

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 Jan 2017 13:52

another weapon is the bharat forge soft recoil 105 using tech sourced from a US co. they called it garuda105 but here is the original demo

http://www.mandusgroup.com/artillery_so ... _105mm.php
http://defenceaviationpost.com/105-ultr ... ndia-2016/

purists and high priests will pooh pooh it saying its useless against the maginot line / eben emael the pakis have built on the border. but I saw once we punch a few holes through that, swarms of these cheap puppies will be most useful vs using costly ATGMs on every hut and sniper nest. in direct fire mode it would be far more nasty than L70/ZSU23(we have less number) and in indirect fire more, heavier than 81mm mortar and far more agile than the ponderous 120mm mortar. every cycle factory in the land should be asked to make parts - hero, atlas, hercules, tobu ...
we ought to replace in phases our towed IFG with a low slung 3t truck mounted model

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 25 Jan 2017 14:25

How the hell are gunners supposed to load ammo on bhim?

Singha wrote:my question was most of the day1 SP guns seem to have a full size "loading door" in back where the engine is locatecd in MBTs through which people and ammo get into the turret. they mount a smallish engine on the front, beside the driver.
conversion jobs like T72 and Bhim would take the drop-in turret but loading would need to be via a couple of people passing the shells up from the ground - a pretty tiring job in the cold and 50kg shells x 70-100 shells in the mag.
the K9 thunder seems to use a K10 automated reload vehicle with a telescoping arm that feeds in shells directly into a hole at back of its turret. the 1000hp engine is still in the back but seems to have been cleverly split into two halves , pushed out to the sides, leaving a door for the crew to use conveniently from the back...this is simply not viable in T72/bhim

http://i.imgur.com/kow6ynt.jpg
http://www.armyrecognition.com/images/s ... k_side.jpg

the pzh2k has these BMP style doors in back
http://i187.photobucket.com/albums/x214 ... mpf024.jpg

M109 has it
https://farm6.staticflickr.com/5445/945 ... 4b6d_b.jpg

So using the Arjun as-is is not a optimal conversion. a small engine etc will need to be found to permit the barn door
as a workaround, Denel left open the huge doors on back and side of turret

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/imag ... ZrT3Z9keDk

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 26 Jan 2017 00:09

In Policy Reversal, Private Companies to Build Indian Howitzer
http://www.defensenews.com/articles/in- ... n-howitzer

"For serial production to be established, it would take at least upwards of one and [a] half years," the Indian Army official said. "In all, ATAGS will take at least four years for induction into artillery." According to the official, the Indian ATAGS will be far cheaper than other global towed artillery guns.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 26 Jan 2017 00:45

The IA had the jonga mounted RCL guns in '71, which pretty much performed the same role, except that they were very few.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 26 Jan 2017 00:53

Rakesh we have two threads where that Swedish report could go.

In Strat forum the 2G corruption thread or in Mil Forum the Corruption in Arms deals.

Please post in 2G corruption thread as this is corruption by politicians.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 26 Jan 2017 00:57

Thanks Ramana. I have moved it to the Corruption in Arms Deals thread.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 26 Jan 2017 00:59

Singha, How about truck or APC mounted 120 mm mortars?

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 26 Jan 2017 01:19

India suddenly seems like it has a few exportable systems in artillery and rockets..the Pinaka Mk1/ Mk2, the Dhanush and the ATAGS seem like ideal products to be marketed for export. With the IA enthusiastically backing these, the PR is good, unlike in the case of the Arjun, where bad PR made it next to impossible to even market it to foreign customers.

How remarkable a change in the mood on this forum itself, compared to the gloom when it came to artillery procurement, which seemed to be stuck and going nowhere!

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 26 Jan 2017 02:02

Singha wrote: from 15:00 a mass of these guns on a beach go into rageboy mode ,

and the commentator gets even more excited and wrathful

Hai Mar gaya
please don't do that again.....

I laughed by butt off listening to her excited voice as the barrage started.
Holy Moly what a good one

Thanks Singha Bhadur
Made my day

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 26 Jan 2017 02:39

That commentator is indeed funny. But there is a reason why Stalin called Artillery the God of War. To be at the receiving end of that artillery barrage is friggin scary...if you survive.

Mihir · Post by **Mihir** » 26 Jan 2017 03:13

Ajai Shukla finally confirms the rumors of a Pinaka prototype being used in Kargil.

https://ajaishukla.blogspot.com/2017/01 ... ye-in.html

While the television crews covered the GRAD BM-21 rocket launcher hurling its fiery bolts towards Tiger Hill, the Pinaka --- more accurate, lethal and with a far longer range --- was proving its mettle away from the cameras.

This has never been revealed until now. Nor, the fact that Pakistani mortar fire wounded a young DRDO scientist who was operating the Pinaka. Like a soldier, he continued firing until that operation was over.

Bheeshma · Post by **Bheeshma** » 26 Jan 2017 03:20

Philip wrote:Good show by NoKO.They like the Iranians are steadil;y improving their hone-built weapon systems and are proving innovative.What's the famous saying? "Necessity is the mother of invention".

Like iranians they make do with whatever they have and don't go through 10 cycles of testing over summer and winter looking for unobtainium. If you watch the video the T-59 hulls rises up a good ft or so during firing. No way IA will ever agree to something like that. The Koksan may not even be able to do a pistol mode firing.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 26 Jan 2017 05:50

JTull wrote:ATAGS video, courtesy Livefist

interesting thing is the gun is fired in many modes High angle howitzer mode, direct fire etc.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 26 Jan 2017 08:00

^^ direct fire more used to in field guns not howitzers but IA wants it in emergency if the position is about to overrun and AP pellet shots are needed.

Aditya, there are large doors in the back of the turret and the side for feeding in the ammo and charges.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 26 Jan 2017 15:48

This ATAGS is a beast and the Dhanush looks flyweight in comparison

ATAGS_Kaumodaki and Dhanush

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 26 Jan 2017 16:01

Seriously? We named the ATAGS Kaumodaki?

Lalmohan · Post by **Lalmohan** » 26 Jan 2017 16:03

it is the mace of Lord Vishnu

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 26 Jan 2017 16:05

haan bhai i named it if we can have pinaka why not kaumodaki

uddu · Post by **uddu** » 26 Jan 2017 17:46

suryag wrote:haan bhai i named it if we can have pinaka why not kaumodaki

It should be Pinaka and Sharanga

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 26 Jan 2017 18:23

OT: Lalji, yes I know what Kaumodaki is. Just it seemed so...fitting. If its not official, perhaps some kind soul can put it forward to anyone who might listen.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 28 Jan 2017 20:43

Worthy of note the 39cal fh77b has a range 21km with basic shell while 52cal atags around 42km. Thats almost twice the range and 4 times the circular area. Huge diff in logistics and battery safety

A battery sitting in ramanagara could shell the nice road end to end

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 28 Jan 2017 21:19

Indranil wrote:Revive Bhim. It's time. Go the ATAGS way: CVRDE designs. Avadi+private partners manufacture. L&T already has a competitor. Let the others join the party.

And the FICV too, instead of the current screwdrivergiri deal gift-wrapped for the private players.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 30 Jan 2017 23:36

Private Manufacture – Shift in Indian Army Policy
http://i-hls.com/2017/01/private-manufa ... my-policy/

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 04 Feb 2017 21:37

There are more short videos in the channel.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 04 Feb 2017 22:22

Singha wrote:^^ direct fire more used to in field guns not howitzers but IA wants it in emergency if the position is about to overrun and AP pellet shots are needed.

If that is the stated reason (by the army) - I would like to see a reference for that or is it chaiwala?

I though the direct fire more is useful in the mountains as it was in Kargil where line of sight targets exist. No attacking force will come rushing at the barrel of an artillery piece - they will simply skirt and come around the sides

Cosmo_R · Post by **Cosmo_R** » 04 Feb 2017 22:43

shiv wrote:..

Looks like NoKo has a longer Koksan than anyone else

The better to reach Pusan

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 05 Feb 2017 09:19

I find it almost comical that 5 years ago we were only seeing news of IA sending 155 rfq to international vendors. And today we have potentially 2 domestic designs competing for the 52 calbier project. The tech for m 46 upgrade to 45 call and danush.

The domestic ATAGS IMO should be adaptable to the mounted configuration as well.so that is another product that can be met through potentially domestic design. The SPH is a different discussion.

What difference leadership makes.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 05 Feb 2017 09:39

To be fair, Dhanush, ATAGS were all started before Modi sarkar. But Modi Sarkar has certainly provided the much needed support.

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 05 Feb 2017 10:05

abhik wrote:
There are more short videos in the channel.

Pretty good that

Seemed so smooth and effortless

Especially when you compare it with the frenzied grunt work for manual loaded howitzers like the M777

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 05 Feb 2017 12:08

Indranil wrote:To be fair, Dhanush, ATAGS were all started before Modi sarkar. But Modi Sarkar has certainly provided the much needed support.

We the UPA and their indecisiveness to thanks for, else we would have 100's of imported and screwdrivered gun by now.

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 05 Feb 2017 19:18

Is it just me or was their an inordinate delay in firing off the third shot??? The time between the first and second shot was about 8-9 seconds where as the third shot was almost 10-12 later.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 05 Feb 2017 19:55

Bala Vignesh wrote:Is it just me or was their an inordinate delay in firing off the third shot??? The time between the first and second shot was about 8-9 seconds where as the third shot was almost 10-12 later.

Come on boss. "Inordinate delay"? You've only see 3 shots being fired in one video and all three are done in 20 seconds and you judge one as inordinate delay? The second one comes about 9 seconds after the first and the third one 11 seconds later Give our people 2-3 seconds of wiggle room please?

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 05 Feb 2017 20:05

Maafi Hakeem saab,
Just asking that to see if there was something that had to be redone/gone wrong in the third shot before the gun fired?? And if others noticed something that I didn't.. No disrespect to the gun crew and the product meant..

nirav · Post by **nirav** » 05 Feb 2017 20:20

Bala Vignesh ji doesn't like to give even two seconds to the recepient of that third round

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 05 Feb 2017 20:25

Wait for the advent of atags. It was reported to have MRSI capability. As will the K9.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 05 Feb 2017 20:42

abhik wrote:
There are more short videos in the channel.

Is there anyway to ascertain that this is Dhanush and not the Bofors?

AdityaM · Post by **AdityaM** » 05 Feb 2017 20:50

Bala Vignesh wrote:Maafi Hakeem saab,
Just asking that to see if there was something that had to be redone/gone wrong in the third shot before the gun fired?? And if others noticed something that I didn't.. No disrespect to the gun crew and the product meant..

Looks like the round was kept upside down and had to be uprighted

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 05 Feb 2017 22:40

Indranil wrote:
abhik wrote:[youtub]83euhUOCx4M[/youtub]
There are more short videos in the channel.
Is there anyway to ascertain that this is Dhanush and not the Bofors?

Yes, it has a distinctive muzzle velocity radar placed on top of barrel which original bofors does not have.