Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

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arun
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by arun »

Karthik S wrote:
Saurav Jha ‏@SJha1618
A new @DRDO_India BMD interceptor sporting an indigenous IIR seeker intercepted a ballistic target at an altitude of 97 km earlier today.
nash wrote:Some more of his tweet
Saurav Jha ‏@SJha1618 46m46 minutes ago
More
The interceptor is a variant of the PDV with a new IIR seeker, propulsion & avionics. It's interception window spans from 80-120 km.

Saurav Jha ‏@SJha1618 45m45 minutes ago
More
Most importantly, this was a 'hit to kill' missions with @DRDO_India's new PDV smashing into the deviating & 'undefined' target.

Regards the Ashwin PDV ballistic missile interceptor test reported by Saurav Jha, for the sake of good order, it can be confirmed that a NAVAREA VIII Warning for a Missile Test was in force today:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DTG 081001Z/FEB
FROM NAVAREA VIII CO-ORDINATOR TO NAVAREA VIII – 095
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
INDIA EAST COAST – OFF PARADIP (.) CHARTS 31 351 352 INT 71 (.) EXPERIMENTAL
FLIGHT TRIAL SCHEDULED FROM ITR ON 11 FEB 17 FROM 0030-0430 UTC IN DANGER ZONE
BOUNDED BY 21-27.30N 087-30.55E, 19-42.63N 086-23.27E, 18-37.32N 087-55.38E, 20-21.12N 089-
00.30E
2. CANCEL NAVAREA MSG 093 AND THIS MSG 110530 UTC FEB 17
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
arun
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by arun »

PTI via Hindu quoting an unnamed DRDO official on the PDV ballistic missile interceptor test.

Any idea on what this 2000 km range ship launched two stage target missile is :?: A marineised version of Agni 2 :?: :
The interceptor was launched from Abdul Kalam Island (Wheeler Island) of ITR at about 7.45 AM.

This mission, termed as “PDV mission is for engaging the targets in the exo-atmosphere region at an altitude above 50 km of earth’s atmosphere”, said a Defence Research Development Organisation (DRDO) official.

“Both, the PDV interceptor and the two stage target missile, were successfully engaged,” he said.

The target was developed for mimicking a hostile Ballistic Missile approaching from more than 2000 km away was launched from a ship anchored in the Bay of Bengal.
From here:

Interceptor missile successfully test-fired
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Gyan »

We need to make AAD, PDV as a multiple purpose missiles like SM-6. Apart from BMD, they can be used as 400-600km range SAM, and even Anti Ship missile.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by AdityaM »

arun wrote: Any idea on what this 2000 km range ship launched two stage target missile is :?: A marineised version of Agni 2 :?: :
The target was developed for mimicking a hostile Ballistic Missile approaching from more than 2000 km away was launched from a ship anchored in the Bay of Bengal.
Target mimics a 2000 km range missile. It doesn't mean it's a 2000 km range itself
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by DrRatnadip »

Very respectable job by our scientists..why it is not possible for us to target hafeez saeed since he is in house arrest..i mean its coordinates will be well known and brahmos can do this job well..is it technically difficult or political backlash due to collateral damage preventing us.. :| :?:
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by nash »

arun wrote:--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DTG 081001Z/FEB
FROM NAVAREA VIII CO-ORDINATOR TO NAVAREA VIII – 095
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
INDIA EAST COAST – OFF PARADIP (.) CHARTS 31 351 352 INT 71 (.) EXPERIMENTAL
FLIGHT TRIAL SCHEDULED FROM ITR ON 11 FEB 17 FROM 0030-0430 UTC IN DANGER ZONE
BOUNDED BY 21-27.30N 087-30.55E, 19-42.63N 086-23.27E, 18-37.32N 087-55.38E, 20-21.12N 089-
00.30E
2. CANCEL NAVAREA MSG 093 AND THIS MSG 110530 UTC FEB 17
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

what would be the range of this NAVAREA?
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by kurup »

arun wrote:
Karthik S wrote:
nash wrote:Some more of his tweet

Regards the Ashwin PDV ballistic missile interceptor test reported by Saurav Jha, for the sake of good order, it can be confirmed that a NAVAREA VIII Warning for a Missile Test was in force today:
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
DTG 081001Z/FEB
FROM NAVAREA VIII CO-ORDINATOR TO NAVAREA VIII – 095
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
INDIA EAST COAST – OFF PARADIP (.) CHARTS 31 351 352 INT 71 (.) EXPERIMENTAL
FLIGHT TRIAL SCHEDULED FROM ITR ON 11 FEB 17 FROM 0030-0430 UTC IN DANGER ZONE
BOUNDED BY 21-27.30N 087-30.55E, 19-42.63N 086-23.27E, 18-37.32N 087-55.38E, 20-21.12N 089-
00.30E
2. CANCEL NAVAREA MSG 093 AND THIS MSG 110530 UTC FEB 17
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The date on NAVAREA is for Feb11 ......... but they conducted the test yesterday :shock: ......... no such warning can be found for Feb 10th .
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by kurup »

Tests scheduled on Feb 11 , 15 and 16 ( same area )

INDIA EAST COAST – OFF PARADIP (.) CHARTS 31 351 352 INT 71 (.)

EXPERIMENTAL FLIGHT TRIAL SCHEDULED FROM ITR ON 11 FEB 17 FROM 0030-0430 UTC IN DANGER ZONE BOUNDED BY

21-27.30N 087-30.55E, 19-42.63N 086-23.27E, 18-37.32N 087-55.38E, 20-21.12N 089- 00.30E

2. CANCEL NAVAREA MSG 093 AND THIS MSG 110530 UTC FEB 17

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

INDIA EAST COAST – OFF PARADIP (.) CHARTS 31 351 352 INT 71 (.)

EXPERIMENTAL FLIGHT TRIALS SCHEDULED FROM ITR ON 15 AND 16 FEB 17 FROM 0030-0430 UTC IN DANGER ZONE BOUNDED BY

21-27.30N 087-30.55E, 19-42.63N 086-23.27E, 18-37.32N 087-55.38E, 20-21.12N 089-00.30E

2. CANCEL THIS MSG 160530 UTC FEB 17

Image

Image
arun
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by arun »

kurup wrote:The date on NAVAREA is for Feb11 ......... but they conducted the test yesterday :shock: ......... no such warning can be found for Feb 10th .
PDV Test was today, Saturday Feb 11 at 7.45AM. PTI via Hindustan Times:
India successfully test-fires interceptor missile off Odisha coast

India successfully test-fired its interceptor missile off the Odisha coast on Saturday, achieving a significant milestone in the direction of developing a two-layered Ballistic Missile Defence system.

The interceptor was launched from Abdul Kalam Island (Wheeler Island) of ITR at about 7.45 AM.

Thanks for the posting the charts 8)
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by arun »

AdityaM wrote:
arun wrote: Any idea on what this 2000 km range ship launched two stage target missile is :?: A marineised version of Agni 2 :?: :
Target mimics a 2000 km range missile. It doesn't mean it's a 2000 km range itself
:oops: I missed that. Thanks for pointing it out.

Meanwhile by mimicking I guess DRDO means the intercepted target missile was travelling at a speed around 3.86 to 4.07 km/sec per Table 6 of the article titled A BALLISTIC MISSILE PRIMER
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by John »

rohiths wrote:That's THAAD level performance and should be sufficient for Pakis. The focus should be to operationalize the Ballistic missile defence to key cities and defence installations.
Thaad from my understanding is endo atmospheric this is exo-atmospheric kill vehicle.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by brar_w »

John wrote:
rohiths wrote:That's THAAD level performance and should be sufficient for Pakis. The focus should be to operationalize the Ballistic missile defence to key cities and defence installations.
Thaad from my understanding is endo atmospheric this is exo-atmospheric kill vehicle.
THAAD is designed to do both, and has done both in tests. Its design goal (altitude) is 40/50 km (min) to 150 km(max), and is meant to engage the SRBM (1000km class) through IRBM (up to 4500 km class) threats. I believe through testing they have covered both of those altitude limits and are going through the target set and have so far covered SRBM-MRBM with an IRBM test slated soon.

Also, THAAD is meant to protect troops, bases etc i.e. relatively smaller footprints and provides shoot look shoot opportunities all the way up to 150km and down to lower altitudes with the Patriot as a backup. It is not something that you would best use to protect large cities (large area defense) or population centers (not until the ER version is developed) via exo. intercepts. A correct reference for that role would be the AEGIS Ashore program which because of its exoatmospheric range can protect very large territories across the sub ICBM class missiles minus a large chunk of the SRBMs that the system cannot defeat with SM3s.

See this - http://oi65.tinypic.com/el7fwg.jpg
Last edited by brar_w on 11 Feb 2017 19:12, edited 7 times in total.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Neela »

Image


✈Anantha Krishnan M ✈ ‏@writetake 22m22 minutes ago
More
#PDV blast-off during today's mission. India in an exclusive club of 4 nations with capabilities 2 secure its skies against hostile threats.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by brar_w »

Nations currently with ABM capability (top of my head/dev. or fielded) - US, Russia, India, China, Israel, Japan, France?
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Cosmo_R »

shiv wrote: What if that is not so and Bharat Karnad is simply having a rant? Is there any space for that possibility?
With BK, think wide open spaces.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Yagnasri »

http://www.financialexpress.com/electio ... di/546840/

NM statement on THAAD defence systems.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by arun »

A bland Ministry of Defence press release:
Press Information Bureau
Government of India
Ministry of Defence
11-February-2017 18:28 IST

India Successfully Test Fires Exo-Atmospheric Interceptor Missile

At 0745 hrs today, India successfully conducted a test wherein an incoming ballistic missile target was intercepted by an exo-atmospheric interceptor missile off the Bay of Bengal.

With this commendable scientific achievement, India has crossed an important milestone in building its overall capability towards enhanced security against incoming ballistic missile threats. It has entered an exclusive club of four nations with developing capabilities to secure its skies and cities against hostile threats.

Prime Minister Shri Narendra Modi and Defence Minister Shri Manohar Parrikar lauded the efforts of the DRDO and all the scientists involved for their dedicated efforts in this significant achievement.

NW/NAo/Ranjan
From here:

Clicky
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Pratyush »

Karthik S wrote:
Saurav Jha ‏@SJha1618
A new @DRDO_India BMD interceptor sporting an indigenous IIR seeker intercepted a ballistic target at an altitude of 97 km earlier today.
Wow . Proof it quickly and put it in production ASAP.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by AdityaM »

How is this test different from earlier ones?
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Bheeshma »

If you look at the timesnow video it looks like the PDV was launched from a canister (open) unlike the previous ones and PAD.
https://twitter.com/writetake/status/83 ... 36/photo/1

Hopefully when deployed , they will have 4-6 missiles per launcher.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Aditya G »

Neela wrote: India in an exclusive club of 4 nations with capabilities 2 secure its skies against hostile threats.
Membership of this exclusive club is only provisional till a system is deployed in IAF service to protect Delhi under a joint tri-service command reporting to CDS.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Cybaru »

Earlier wiki had PAD at maximum 80 km altitude. This new 80-120 km number probably increases the class of missiles it can intercept as well. What's the max theoretical capacity for such a vehicle? arun_s type of analysis?
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by RoyG »

I would say it's good enough for Shaheen, Gauri, M-11's which lack a MRV bus. May explain why they are going for Ababeel to overcome our slowly developing counterforce architecture + missile defence.

If I were Pakistan, I would be sweating. Ababeel will need few years w/ Chinese help to reach a decent production rate. If I were them, use DAHRT to develop high confidence 50-100 kt FBF and develop advance decoys and place them on MRV bus.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by John »

Thanks brar.

Pakistan is in same boat as Saddam was, threw a lot of money at their ballistic program and now good chunk of their arsenal will be obsolete.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Bheeshma »

Paki missiles and chinese 2-3Km range ones are taken care of by BMD phase-I, but what about the Phase-II? No news about AD-1 and 2 after those DRDO powerpoints way back in 2014-15
http://sajeevpearlj.blogspot.com/2015_0 ... chive.html.

Is the PDV one stage or two? It looks like two stage due to the difference in color.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Singha »

Tsp can test new chinese designs via north korea or get some proven warheads directly from beijing . Testing is a problem only for india
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by sudeepj »

So if these missiles are forward stationed in say, Jaisalmer, Amritsar etc. can they intercept Pak missiles such that the debris falls on Pak land itself?
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by RoyG »

Bheeshma wrote:Paki missiles and chinese 2-3Km range ones are taken care of by BMD phase-I, but what about the Phase-II? No news about AD-1 and 2 after those DRDO powerpoints way back in 2014-15
http://sajeevpearlj.blogspot.com/2015_0 ... chive.html.

Is the PDV one stage or two? It looks like two stage due to the difference in color.
When BMD phase-I matures and becomes operationalized it is likely that at least some of the incoming missiles can be neutralized. If we are proactive and do first strike it'll lessen the stress. This is why the BMD component is dangerous. It's an enabler for counterforce and decapitation strike.

Just look at the developments:

Gradual refinement in FBF has been taking place making them more destructive and reliable.

Cannisterization of missiles including Agni 1P w/ warheads already mated which will be able to put warhead in low double digits CEP in short notice.

Agni III which can be MIRV enabled, can launched from interior of country to help pulverize urban and military targets.

SSBN force in Arabian Sea w/ K series missiles w/ warheads already mated.

Improved command and control coupled w/ assertive pmo.

Growing relevance of BIMSTEC.

Strategic relationship w/ US, Israel, UAE, Afghanistan, and Iran.

B2 bombers w/ and nuclear bunker busters in Deigo Garcia.

Validation of cold start doctrine through massive border exercises.

Political and societal stresses in Pakistan posing greater danger to Punjabi domination.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

If I were Pakistan, I would be sweating!
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by RoyG »

sudeepj wrote:So if these missiles are forward stationed in say, Jaisalmer, Amritsar etc. can they intercept Pak missiles such that the debris falls on Pak land itself?
I don't think we have missiles that can do boost phase intercept yet. Maybe in development.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Supratik »

This is an upgradation of the initial BMD phase 1 with several new additions. This was facing problems before but now it seems they have overcome it and added new features. Repeatability is what is being next looked for. I will call this BMD phase 1 part 2. I won't be surprised if part 1 which had a pretty good success rate is already deployed to a limited extent but not announced due to US pressure.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by RoyG »

US pressure? Doesn't make any sense.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by kit »

Three tier BMD defenses with offensive Hypersonic missile / HGV in the form of Shourya / Sagarika will put both China and Pakistan in their places
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Supratik »

The Americans consider BMD to be escalatory as it forces Pak and China to develop more nukes and have strongly discouraged it. Has been discussed on BRF and elsewhere.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Cain Marko »

So now, how do gurus think this system will be integrated with s400? I'm guessing they wth be used in tandem as a layered strategy for major cities and high value assets.

Most military installations will probably see barak8, akash and spyder layers.

I would think however that the s400 should be used more close to the border and create an nfz of sorts vs tsp thereby seriously hampering their airfarce movements at least during war time.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Supratik »

Coverage will depend on how much cash you can spare. Initial plans are to cover capital, major cities e.g. munbai, important military bases, nuclear establishments, etc.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by arun »

Audio clip of Dr VK Saraswat, Scientific Advisor to the Defence Minister, talking about the February 11th PDV Exo Atmospheric Interceptor Missile Test by DRDO.

Says that the PDV has a hit to kill capability for tagets in the 80 to 150 km altitude. Also says that the terminal guidance was by a indigenous infra red seeker:

Dr VK Saraswat On The PDV Exo Atmospheric Interceptor Missile Test By DRDO
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Singha »

???

Delhi Defence Review‏ @delhidefence
@DRDO_India's Rudra M-II is a new air to surface missile under development at a cost of just under Rs 500 crores since 2016.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Singha »

Pib release

Some of the new special innovative projects undertaken by Defence Research and Development Organisation (DRDO) during last three years are:
· Pralay Missile
· Rudra M-II Air to Surface Missile ????
· Supersonic Missile Assisted Release of Torpedo (SMART) .... desi asroc ?
· Ku-band Active Radar Seeker .... for astra???
· Stealth Wing Flying Testbed (SWiFT)
· AESA Based Integrated Sensor Suite (ABISS)...fighter ew??
· EM Gun Powered by a Capacitor Bank ???
· Multi-Agent Robotics System (MARS)
· Ku-band TWTA for Aerospace Application
· Submarine Periscope
· Air Independent Propulsion System for Submarine
· AWACS (India),
Radar USHAS
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Austin »

Some useful information on Brahmos and Hypersonic Brahmos from Dr Sudhir Mishra

https://rg.ru/2017/02/11/v-indii-nazval ... ramos.html

In India, revealed some of the secrets of the joint project with Russia for the production of missiles "BrahMos". The first launch of the supersonic missile "BrahMos" from the aircraft Su-30MKI at sea target will take place in the next 1-3 months. And work on the creation of hypersonic missiles, capable of speeds of 4-5 thousand kilometers per hour, it will take 2-3 years. This was told reporters in New Delhi Managing Director of the Russian-Indian joint venture "BrahMos Aerospace" Sudhir Kumar Mishra.
At the armed ground forces and the Indian Navy is currently worth more than hundreds of missiles "BrahMos". Here they, apparently, happy - in comparison with the existing foreign counterparts, "BrahMos" 3 times faster and shoots in 2.5 times more.

However, no country has not established previously as heavy weapons on fighter - weight "BrahMos" on the suspension of Su-30MKI is now almost 2.5 tons. air-launched missile will be easier to land or ship variant with 500 kg, but even such a "weight loss" lets talk about the uniqueness of the project - gunsmiths managed to do so, that the technical characteristics of the Su-30MKI as a result of the retrofit were not injured.

BrahMos" is the first, powerful penetrating warhead (weight up to 250 kg) and an active homing head with a detection range of up to 80 km in the world cruise missile for tactical combat aircraft, combining supersonic speed, long range (up to 300 km) and the scanning sector -45 - +45 degrees. The latter allows you to implement the principle of "fire and forget" - the rocket will automatically find the target.


Testing began in late June last year. These included a series of flights with the weight and dimensional layout missiles, and then reset the rocket itself with a fighter without starting its engine.

"At the moment, the modernized Su-30MKI aircraft flew about 25 hours with a missile" BrahMos "on board. In March, will hold three more tests, after which will be launched at sea, and then ground targets. However, we are now fully confident of a successful outcome launches ", - said Sudhir Kumar Mishra.

At the same time, Russia and India are working on two other projects - a hypersonic missile, which is planned to be 1-2 thousand kilometers per hour faster than supersonic and easy version of "BrahMos", which reduced the weight by almost 1.5 times - up to 1400 kg. According to Sudhir Kumar Mishra, work on them are the Russian machine-building NGOs, the Moscow Aviation Institute and the Indian agency promising military developments DRDO. According to preliminary estimates, the rocket will be set up in two or three years. Previously, general designer and director general of the NGO Engineering Alexander Leonov said that the lighter version of "BrahMos" can be installed on the fifth-generation fighter T-50.
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Re: Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Post by Austin »

So Hypersonic Brahmos will weigh 1400 kg and will be capable of speed of up to 4000-5000 km/hr
Brahmos Seeker Range is 80 km scan angle is +/- 45 degree
So far Brahmos on MKI flew 45 hours , March will have 3 more test and post that test at targets on Sea and Land
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