Indian Military Helicopters

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 09 Feb 2017 10:12

Singha wrote:

Nice video. It takes 5 seconds to hit the ground - which means a fall of 125 meters/400 feet

Bit too far for a 12 gauge..

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 09 Feb 2017 10:22

Bala Vignesh wrote:http://idrw.org/with-final-standard-fro ... n-in-2018/

The weapon's fit had not been decided for the machine. Will the armed forces accept it in the absence of defined weapons integration.

rohitvats · Post by **rohitvats** » 09 Feb 2017 10:34

Only the ATGM is missing. I think the rockets, guns and AAM are taken care of.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 09 Feb 2017 11:25

hezbollah has also used such small drones to drop grenades. saw a similar video once.
the SAA also uses them. the viewing console of choice is just a cheap tablet.
nothing is mil grade, but a useful low end asset every platoon can afford.

ISIS always the innovator used a bobby trapped drone which had apparently died and fallen to ground to attract the curiosity of a syrian militia leader, who went to pick it up from near his vehicle and then it exploded, assassinating him. they have also killed iraqis in mosul using kamikaze dives.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 09 Feb 2017 11:26

Pratyush wrote:
Bala Vignesh wrote:http://idrw.org/with-final-standard-fro ... n-in-2018/
The weapon's fit had not been decided for the machine. Will the armed forces accept it in the absence of defined weapons integration.

what is the status of Helina, or due to delays the tested Pars-LR will get the meat?

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 09 Feb 2017 12:59

Singha wrote:
Pratyush wrote:The weapon's fit had not been decided for the machine. Will the armed forces accept it in the absence of defined weapons integration.
what is the status of Helina, or due to delays the tested Pars-LR will get the meat?

One doesnt encounter tanks all the time. A much better option is laser guided rockets that existing supplier Forges de Zeebrugge also offers. Also useful against tanks taking out sensors & engine. One doesn't need frontal penetration all the time.

http://fz.be/laser-guided-rocket#1

Calibre : 2.75” (70mm)
Nominal length : ~1800mm
All up round weight : 12.5 kg (before burn)/9.1 kg (after burn)
Range : 1500m up to 6000m
CEP<1m (at 6km range)

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 09 Feb 2017 13:02

Both the West and Russia re developing new high-speed helos using new concepts.Surely the boffins at our aerospace establishments should be looking to leapfrog over stale tech given the long lead time before any programme matures and enters production?

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 09 Feb 2017 13:21

^^ Rockets were never standardized or manufactured in India - We use Russian S-5 57mm S-8 80mm S-13 122 mm S-24 240 mm and Matra Sneb 68 mm rockets, Rudra & LCH FZ 70mm

Most aircraft will use PGM like SAAW and only 57 mm will remain for Mi-17 and 70mm for LCH/Rudra remaining will be phased out.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 09 Feb 2017 14:26

The overall helicopter scenario is looking quite favourable for army and air force. Cheetak replacement is yet to be signed off but with 2 options available at least 1 should happen.

For Navy the medium heptr is stuck in negotiation. I believe purchase of second hand sea kings should be explored.

LCH is looking good if forces accept the chopper in service with just gun and rockets. No worse than mi-17s or lancers!

Kartik wrote:Analysis- India sets sights on rotorcraft upgrade

...

The LUH is a new 3t single-engined helicopter designed and developed by HAL to meet the RSH requirement. The LUH made its maiden flight in September 2016 and developmental testing is under way.

Series production of the LUH is slated to begin in 2018, at a new manufacturing facility to be built at Tumkur, about 150km (90 miles) from Bengaluru. A production run of 187 LUH rotorcraft has been approved.

..

The LUH is powered by a Safran HE Ardiden-1U engine developing 750kW. The Ardiden 1U was selected in 2014 and engine certification is planned for 2018. The engine is a derivative of the Ardiden 1H1, which was co-developed by Safran and HAL and is known lokally as the Shakti.

The LUH, design and development of which started in early 2009, has a maximum all-up-weight (AUW) of 3,150kg and a range of 350km. It will carry six passengers and two pilots.

Deliveries of HAL’s Dhruv, a 5t-class helicopter, to the armed forces continues and all 159 on order will be delivered by 2018. Additional orders are likely to keep the production line running into the 2020s. HAL is now building 24 helicopters a year. Dhruv MkIII examples now being delivered are available with an Israeli-built forward-looking infrared (FLIR) pod.

At present the most advanced variant is the Dhruv Mk IV Weapon System Integrated (WSI), also known as Rudra. HAL has plans to develop a MkV which will be an update of the MkIII utility variant with improvements to the main gearbox, updated avionics and improved aerodynamics.

Another aspect that has emerged with the indigenous helicopters such as Dhruv, Rudra and LCH is that the Indian armed forces have now firmly incorporated simulators into their training philosophies for these helicopters.

Simulator training is now being undertaken by all military and paramilitary users of Dhruv.

“We are planning to induct the Rudra WSI cockpit for training in 2018 and we will be bidding for the LCH and LUH simulators,” says Wg Cdr (retd) Krishna, the chief executive of Helicopter Academy to Train by Simulation of Flying (HATSOFF), a joint venture between HAL and CAE of Canada. In the 2016 fiscal year the Dhruv (conventional) Level D simulator at HATSOFF was used for 2,200h.

..

A mid-life upgrade for 90 Mi-17 series helicopters has also been proposed by the air force.

..

The LCH is a tandem-seat attack helicopter being designed to stringent air force and army requirements for a high-altitude attack helicopter, and makes extensive use of the experience gained from the Dhruv MkIII and MkIV variants.

“We have proved the basic airframe and we already have the experience of weapons integration which we performed on the Rudra,” says HAL chairman Suvarna Raju. “Now we have declared that the LCH is ready for induction depending on the weapons selection by the individual customer.” The LCH has been designed to operate at 10,000-12,000ft with an armaments load on its weapon stub wing/armament boom.

Commenting on the completion of weapons integration, which also requires the finalisation of the armament load by the user, Raju says: “Instead of waiting for weapons integration and declaration of initial operational capability [IOC], which is specific to Indian services, we went ahead and proved the basic platform at different altitudes and have completed hot and cold weather trials.”

The two weapon stations on either side of the LCH can carry anti-tank guided missiles (ATGMs), rockets or air-to-air missiles. An MBDA spokesman tells FlightGlobal: “The Mistral ATAM launcher has already been integrated on the Rudra and successful test firings have been carried out. Integration on the LCH is under way and progressing as per schedule.”

The LCH is also fitted with a slewable electro-optical sighting system, helmet pointing system, radar/laser missile warning system and countermeasures dispensing system (CMDS). A Nexter THL20 turret gun is also standard on all LCHs.

..

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 10 Feb 2017 00:18

yes Cybaru, the part that interested me the most was this:

This could mean that a helicopter such as the Super Puma, currently powered by the 1,877 shp Makila 1A1, could perhaps be powered by the lighter 1,400 shp Ardiden 3 engine, with hybrid systems providing additional power when needed.

If the Super Puma could be powered by the Ardiden in the 1400 shp class, then the IMRH could also be powered by the Shakti, which is in the 1384 shp class. Instead of developing a new engine or looking for a completely new engine off-the-shelf that has a higher power rating, if the Shakti could be used, it would go a long way in increasing commonality with the Dhruv's engines, allowing for more economical maintenance of the IMRH. Not to mention the overall weight benefits of going with a lighter engine on the entire helicopter's structure.

sankum · Post by **sankum** » 10 Feb 2017 00:50

For IMRH the engine will be in 2500-3000 shp class for twin engine configuration.

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 10 Feb 2017 00:52

Yeah, it's kind of interesting. It would also depend on the user and how they use their aircraft. If it is Indian Army/Airforce copter, they probably fly a large portion of the birds in the extreme regimes. If they are only in those regimes for 5-10% of their time, it may be possible to do hybrid. Indian Navy might be able to get away with such hybrid option. Do they state how much energy they are thinking of storing? Can't be a lot. The offset in engine payload cost isn't going to be free. The storage or electricity will need to be factored in and that will get lighter as time goes by, but it still weighs decent amount today. It may save sarfran some R&D cost/time to continuously resize/up-size engines and they might be able to mix and match this hybrid offering to customers rather than building something from scratch every-time some customer wants a perfectly designed engine for their need

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 10 Feb 2017 01:08

sankum wrote:For IMRH the engine will be in 2500-3000 shp class for twin engine configuration.

Source?

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 10 Feb 2017 02:02

Huh? The H225M was selected for the Coast Guard's requirement?

Airbus Helicopters to open new MRO plant in India

Airbus Helicopters is looking to open a maintenance, repair, and overhaul (MRO) facility for H225M helicopters in Goa, Jane's has been told.

The helicopter has been selected for the Indian Coast Guard's requirement for 14 Twin Engine Heavy Helicopters that would undertake search-and-rescue (SAR) and surveillance operations for the coastguard, in a requirement that was first announced in 2010.

With the deal in the final stages of negotiation, the company is in the process of offering a raft of offset proposals to the Indian government in order to meet the 30% offset requirement for the procurement. According to an Airbus Helicopters spokesperson, the MRO facility in Goa is to be a new facility located close to the coastguard's operational base, which will undertake intermediate and depot-level maintenance. All 14 helicopters are also to be re-assembled and flight-tested at the facility.

A further performance-based logistics package is also being offered to the coastguard to ensure maximum fleet availability.

..

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 10 Feb 2017 02:39

I hope thats not true. I think it's a desire to win. It may have been chosen, but the contract hasn't been inked. Nice summary at the end and nice looking dhruv in coast guard colors. I think the order for 16 dhruvs for coast guard has already been approved back in 2014 according to news reports.

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/shar ... 09885.html
http://www.defenseworld.net/news/10843/ ... JzaIi_QcuU

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 10 Feb 2017 15:15

Singha wrote:...

meantime our ponderous global tendah for such kit will wend its way past N changes in RFQ and MOD tables, with requirements escalating to reaper level but cost capped to dji phantom level

I hear again that IA is buying 200 Netra systems at INR 800,000.00 a piece.

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 10 Feb 2017 21:36

Kartik wrote:Huh? The H225M was selected for the Coast Guard's requirement?

Airbus Helicopters to open new MRO plant in India

Airbus Helicopters is looking to open a maintenance, repair, and overhaul (MRO) facility for H225M helicopters in Goa, Jane's has been told.

The helicopter has been selected for the Indian Coast Guard's requirement for 14 Twin Engine Heavy Helicopters that would undertake search-and-rescue (SAR) and surveillance operations for the coastguard, in a requirement that was first announced in 2010.

With the deal in the final stages of negotiation, the company is in the process of offering a raft of offset proposals to the Indian government in order to meet the 30% offset requirement for the procurement. According to an Airbus Helicopters spokesperson, the MRO facility in Goa is to be a new facility located close to the coastguard's operational base, which will undertake intermediate and depot-level maintenance. All 14 helicopters are also to be re-assembled and flight-tested at the facility.

A further performance-based logistics package is also being offered to the coastguard to ensure maximum fleet availability.

..

IAe already does MRO for Airbus helicopters. Since they manufacture parts of the fuselage and have an existing relationship, it might be empty promises that Airbus is dangling for MRO for H225M in India.

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/artic ... -o-433985/

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 11 Feb 2017 07:50

Bala Vignesh wrote:
shiv wrote: In fact his attitude gradually attuned me not to probe too deep into areas that should remain confidential only because I don't need to know. So long as those who don't need to know remain ignorant - confidentiality is more likely to be maintained.
Something I am still trying to grasp my head around..
Sorry about the OT..

Bala - in the middle of a standard article that hypes up and promotes Amreeka with great pride - is this sentence
http://www.popularmechanics.com/militar ... ce=twitter

"Of all the pilots on the base, 75 percent knew about the mission or were part of it," Scorch tells PM. "The others had no reason to know and had to find out about it like everyone else—from CNN."

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 11 Feb 2017 12:44

"We are planning to induct...." ,words heard for decades,yet t frcutify in many cases. It must be now about 7-8 airshows when BRF had a great BLR get-together with Rakesh Sharma (then an LCA test pilot),AM Imamdar and Shiv's cousin if I remember correctly. The LCA still hasn't entered sqd. service.
Every air show gives us much hope,but after the excitement has died down,we find that the hope was mostly "hype". The news today that a new procurement body within the MOD to fast track def. purchases is v.laudable,but why is it going to take 2 years to establish? If I was the MP/DM I would insist upon 2 months! Babudom has to be defeated.It well knows that 2 years from now we will again be in election mode ,perhaps with a mid-term election scenario. The govt. should act as if we are at war. The Chinese and Pakis with their mil mindset have begun to catch up and are in many areas streets ahead (Chinese) ,making it very difficult to catch up if at all.

ashishvikas · Post by **ashishvikas** » 12 Feb 2017 15:54

✈Anantha Krishnan M✈ (@writetake) tweeted at 3:14 PM on Sun, Feb 12, 2017:

#AeroIndia2017 Here is the 1:1 scale model of #HAL's IMRH. Pic: @SpokespersonMoD https://t.co/tFjY47uk1G

(https://twitter.com/writetake/status/83 ... 04800?s=03)

Tarmak007 (@akananth) tweeted at 3:14 PM on Sun, Feb 12, 2017:

#AeroIndia2017 Here is the 1:1 scale model of #HAL's IMRH. Pic: @SpokespersonMoD https://t.co/zYgHxTlMey https://t.co/JFTw6ddYmx

(https://twitter.com/akananth/status/830 ... 68000?s=03)

krishGo · Post by **krishGo** » 12 Feb 2017 15:55

Source: Aero India 2017 / Ananth Krishnan

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 12 Feb 2017 18:03

Philip wrote:"We are planning to induct...." ,words heard for decades,yet t frcutify in many cases. It must be now about 7-8 airshows when BRF had a great BLR get-together with Rakesh Sharma (then an LCA test pilot),AM Imamdar and Shiv's cousin if I remember correctly. The LCA still hasn't entered sqd. service.
Every air show gives us much hope,but after the excitement has died down,we find that the hope was mostly "hype". The news today that a new procurement body within the MOD to fast track def. purchases is v.laudable,but why is it going to take 2 years to establish? If I was the MP/DM I would insist upon 2 months! Babudom has to be defeated.It well knows that 2 years from now we will again be in election mode ,perhaps with a mid-term election scenario. The govt. should act as if we are at war. The Chinese and Pakis with their mil mindset have begun to catch up and are in many areas streets ahead (Chinese) ,making it very difficult to catch up if at all.

This is a special post. Lets see the list of topics it spans.
Induction/Airshows/Shiv/Shiv's cousin/LCA/MoD/Acquisition/Babudom/Election/War/Chinese/Pak.

And nothing about helis.

Bart S · Post by **Bart S** » 12 Feb 2017 18:46

^^ Why are the rotors so short? Or is it because it is under construction?

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 12 Feb 2017 19:01

Bart S wrote:^^ Why are the rotors so short? Or is it because it is under construction?

Because it's a mock up onlee..

Atmavik · Post by **Atmavik** » 12 Feb 2017 19:08

Looks like the VVVIP model

Bart S · Post by **Bart S** » 12 Feb 2017 19:35

Bala Vignesh wrote:
Bart S wrote:^^ Why are the rotors so short? Or is it because it is under construction?
Because it's a mock up onlee..

Yes, but it says that it is a 1:1 scale mockup. Or is it the standard practice to truncate the rotors for such display mockups?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 12 Feb 2017 20:03

Bart S wrote:
Bala Vignesh wrote: Because it's a mock up onlee..

Yes, but it says that it is a 1:1 scale mockup. Or is it the standard practice to truncate the rotors for such display mockups?

No space for rotors in stall

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 12 Feb 2017 21:28

LCH inching closer to IOC; first LSP chopper by 2018
http://english.mathrubhumi.com/news/ind ... -1.1725141

HAL said that the fourth technology demonstrator (TD-4) is very close to the delivery standards. “The IOC is expected any time now and the first limited series production (LSP) copter should be coming out by 2018.” says Dr Kumar. He said the production drawings for LSP have been finalised.......

As per the current plans, IAF would get 10 LSP variants while the Indian Army five. HAL says a total of 65 LCHs are needed for IAF and nearly 100 for Indian Army

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 12 Feb 2017 21:29

An ALH new paint scheme for Aero India customer evaluation flights ......

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 12 Feb 2017 21:31

Threesome!

Sid · Post by **Sid** » 12 Feb 2017 21:56

krishGo wrote:Source: Aero India 2017 / Ananth Krishnan

Wow.. beautiful looking bird.

Finally we will be free from importing any helicopters, no more RFPs, no more dramas.

Well done HAL!!!!

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 12 Feb 2017 22:39

Looks like it is going to be twin engined. Visitors should find out about the engine, and whether the landing gear is going to be retractable.

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 12 Feb 2017 22:42

They would have more power plant options if they went with three engines.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 13 Feb 2017 11:24

If the med. helo has a rear ramp-door version,it would be quite successful,esp for the IA The point about the 3 engines I suppose is being made with reference to the AW/EH Merlin. HAL should aim high with this bird. variants for all 3 services,civil versions,plus an AEW version too taking its cue from both the KA-31 and Merlin AEW bird for deployment of the AEW radar. Either a folding flat panel radar beneath the fuselage as in the Kamov or a domed radar as in the AW, would suffice. Since we've already developed a flat panel radar for our airborne AEW system,the folding panel below would be easier to develop.

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 13 Feb 2017 11:47

Sid wrote:
Wow.. beautiful looking bird.

Finally we will be free from importing any helicopters, no more RFPs, no more dramas.

Well done HAL!!!!

Parrikar , before witnessing the trial run of HAL HTFE, said India needs 8000-10000 Heli engines over the next 10 years. This gap must be closed too.

We have only one Turbo shaft engine program.

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 13 Feb 2017 12:00

Cybaru wrote:Threesome!

Beautiful.

Any chance of a hi-res version ?

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 13 Feb 2017 13:55

LUH at Aero India 2017 in desert camo.

Original specs for the LUH indicated two-blade tail rotor. Prototype has 4 blades.

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 13 Feb 2017 14:34

Oh my god
I need to sit down....

Oh thank god
I am already sitting down.

Daemn that is gorgeous .... well done HAL, Well Done India.
Hats off hats off.

May my lord cast the HTT40 spell on this bird of beauty too.
God Speed

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 13 Feb 2017 14:41

I want an attack variant based on the machine.

But first I want it to fly

Just to prove that I can whine in any situation.

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 13 Feb 2017 19:18

Almost the size of the dornier 228! It's a beauty!