Indian Missiles and Munitions Discussion - June'14

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 12 Feb 2017 13:51

No, the hypersonic and the micro brahmos are "two other projects" he talks of. the hypersonic will be certainly fat and wedge heavy as they tend to be.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 12 Feb 2017 15:27

Gyan wrote:We need to make AAD, PDV as a multiple purpose missiles like SM-6. Apart from BMD, they can be used as 400-600km range SAM, and even Anti Ship missile.

Would you like a camel or a horse ?

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 12 Feb 2017 15:57

As it is the SM6 is a strictly an endoatmoshperic defense system for BMD so not at all comparable.

ashishvikas · Post by **ashishvikas** » 12 Feb 2017 17:07

@DRDO_India's Rudra M-II is a new air to surface missile under development at a cost of just under Rs 500 crores since 2016.

sanjayc · Post by **sanjayc** » 12 Feb 2017 17:16

Supratik wrote:The Americans consider BMD to be escalatory as it forces Pak and China to develop more nukes and have strongly discouraged it. Has been discussed on BRF and elsewhere.

Stupid, self-serving logic of Americans. It is like banning the use of bullet proof jackets by cops because these would make criminals fire more bullets at them. The real reason of course is that American are terrified that if India has a working BMD system, Pakistan's nuclear bogey would not have any leverage.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 12 Feb 2017 18:28

Yagnasri · Post by **Yagnasri** » 12 Feb 2017 19:28

This is where our economic strength comes into play or creates a weakness. I feel we are at the stage wherein we can politely say sorry for your advice but we have our views on this matter.

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 12 Feb 2017 20:02

Supratik wrote:The Americans consider BMD to be escalatory as it forces Pak and China to develop more nukes and have strongly discouraged it.

Why are they installing AEGIS & THAAD in South Korea & Japan then?

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 12 Feb 2017 20:14

It is good for white man and his interests but bad for SDREs who need "guidance" about how to defend themselves. Reality is that the American establishment still have cold war warriors and they see India from that prism. Besides Pak is still a strategic investment which needs to be defended for them. The arguments about terrorism, Kashmir, nukes, etc regarding India has been moderated but not changed in many sections of American opinion.

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 12 Feb 2017 20:54

Supratik wrote:The Americans consider BMD to be escalatory as it forces Pak and China to develop more nukes and have strongly discouraged it. Has been discussed on BRF and elsewhere.

Have you actually read this somewhere or is that your own personal analysis?

NATO offers missile defence cooperation to India
US: We're willing to work with India on missile shield systems
US offers India the Aegis Combat System

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 12 Feb 2017 21:16

As I said "sections" of the American establishment are still cold war warriors and see benefit in Pak. Summary of various readings. Not my own opinion except the brown man part.

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 12 Feb 2017 21:16

Singha wrote:???

Delhi Defence Review‏ @delhidefence
@DRDO_India's Rudra M-II is a new air to surface missile under development at a cost of just under Rs 500 crores since 2016.

Makes you wonder wheres the first variant of the said missile ?

Edit: There are many conflicting reports on this development. Some say its mk2 variant of armed version of Daksh, some mutter about further development of Rudra attack helicopter. Now this talk about second variant of air to surface missile whose first variant is unknown ?

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 12 Feb 2017 21:42

from Rout

http://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/ ... 69593.html

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 12 Feb 2017 21:55

Supratik wrote:from Rout

http://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/ ... 69593.html

From the article.

10. DRDO started developing the BMD system in 1999, with the help of around 40 public and private companies.

Good to know private companies are participating. The government should groom such companies by acting as angel investor etc, help them recruit talent, invest in R&D etc.

shravanp · Post by **shravanp** » 12 Feb 2017 22:05

PDV's truly TFTA looking.

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 12 Feb 2017 22:14

Here is a more recent, more mature and evolving view on Indian BMD from the west but you still find old shenanigans. I will not be surprised if most of the Indian names named are connected to the west.

http://carnegieendowment.org/2016/06/30 ... -pub-63966

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 12 Feb 2017 22:19

Karthik S wrote:
Supratik wrote:from Rout

http://www.newindianexpress.com/nation/ ... 69593.html
From the article.

10. DRDO started developing the BMD system in 1999, with the help of around 40 public and private companies.
Good to know private companies are participating. The government should groom such companies by acting as angel investor etc, help them recruit talent, invest in R&D etc.

I had the good fortune of working on this program when it was in nascent stages, few of my leads were the best that i have ever met, i owe a lot of what i am today to them and back then my immediate boss with about 12 years experience(Scientist D) was making about 15-18K, namo namah to such great engineers/inspirational leads

Supratik · Post by **Supratik** » 12 Feb 2017 22:24

This is the Indian view and this is what the West doesn't want.

https://swarajyamag.com/defence/how-ind ... n-pakistan

prasannasimha · Post by **prasannasimha** » 12 Feb 2017 23:04

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/C4YyTkHUcAEBu0L.jpg

See the hit to kill image

https://t.co/8XdB0d40AB

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 12 Feb 2017 23:05

This looks like target missile. What is the 2nd one ?

prasannasimha · Post by **prasannasimha** » 12 Feb 2017 23:06

^ No that is the PDV see the full series of pictures. The target missile was launched from the sea

A Deshmukh · Post by **A Deshmukh** » 12 Feb 2017 23:15

prasannasimha wrote: See the hit to kill image
https://t.co/8XdB0d40AB

In the last image the PDV is exploding after the target missile has flown away?

prasannasimha · Post by **prasannasimha** » 12 Feb 2017 23:18

No see the contrail of the target versus the contrail of probably a jet(They are at different angles but close if you carefully see it)

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 12 Feb 2017 23:30

Missile in 3rd picture (with exhaust clouds) doesn't seem to have any fins. These don't look like official pictures of this test either.

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 12 Feb 2017 23:40

Hmm...does seem a bit strange. the picture raises a question or two in my mind...probably due to my weak eyes

Why is there a jet contrail so high and seemingly beyond the kill explosion. The hit is supposed to have taken place at 97km altitude exo atmosphere, what jet flies that high?

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 12 Feb 2017 23:44

The contra trail is of the missile itself as it corrects course to target.

prasannasimha · Post by **prasannasimha** » 12 Feb 2017 23:57

YOu are getting a parallalx error and assuming the wider contrail is the higher one.

sudeepj · Post by **sudeepj** » 13 Feb 2017 00:15

Those pictures are stock and not official. Look at the official PDV pic and this one posted on twitter.. The official doesnt have the jungle camo.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 13 Feb 2017 00:31

Can't recall any picture of a prithvi with a solid fuel. Well at least this SAM version has it!

Neela wrote:

✈Anantha Krishnan M ✈ ‏@writetake 22m22 minutes ago
More
#PDV blast-off during today's mission. India in an exclusive club of 4 nations with capabilities 2 secure its skies against hostile threats.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 13 Feb 2017 02:16

Prasanna sir,

Those pictures are not from yesterday. the guy took the pictures from a TOI report. None of those pictures have PDV in them. The first one is of a liquid powered Prithvi missile (PDV is solid fueled), second is that of an AAD, third is an Arrow missile and fourth is the picture of an interception by the Iron dome system.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 13 Feb 2017 03:07

India may have developed its own THAAD-type missile defense system, hints PM Modi
http://www.financialexpress.com/electio ... di/546840/

India Successfully Test-Fires Star Wars-Type Interceptor Missile
http://www.ndtv.com/india-news/india-su ... le-1658393

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 13 Feb 2017 03:13

What makes Prithvi missile Interceptor one of the best in the world: Here are 10 reasons
http://www.defencenews.in/article.aspx?id=250431

New milestone for India's Ballistic Missile Defence system: Interceptor missile successfully test-fired
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... 094070.cms

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 13 Feb 2017 03:32

finally got rid of the liquid fuel Prithvi engine based on SA-2.

So PDV is single stage ABM missile? And goes to 120 km. i.e. ~400k feet

Great job.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 13 Feb 2017 03:45

Rakesh wrote:India may have developed its own THAAD-type missile defense system, hints PM Modi
http://www.financialexpress.com/electio ... di/546840/

Why China is up in Arms over the Defensive Missile System, THAAD
http://www.indiandefencereview.com/spot ... tem-thaad/

ranjan.rao · Post by **ranjan.rao** » 13 Feb 2017 04:12

was searching how does the detection of BM at long ranges occur because the missiles are way beyond horizon

came across the link below (although it doesnt cover the part i was searching for) but found interesting for noobs like me

http://www.ifpa.org/pdf/FAQ-bmd.pdf

It raises and attempts to answer some basic questions from Uncle Sam's PoV e.g. What is BM Defense, Why do we need it to some medium level questions e.g.

1. Aren’t missile defenses easy to overcome because an enemy can simply build and fire more missiles to “saturate” any defenses?
2. Wouldn’t space-based missile defense weaponize space, which should remain free of weapons?
3. Isn’t missile defense too expensive?
4. Won’t missile defenses provoke a destabilizing arms race?

Pakistan finds a mention as well

"Moreover, Pakistan was at the center of a vast proliferation network that was headed by A.Q. Khan, the architect of the Pakistani nuclear weapon program who later sold nuclear weapon expertise and hardware to terrorist sponsoring countries, including Libya, Iran, and North Korea. There is a legitimate concern that the Khan nuclear network could be revived under certain scenarios, further exacerbating the proliferation of nuclear weapons, technologies, and knowhow"

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 13 Feb 2017 04:19

was searching how does the detection of BM at long ranges occur because the missiles are way beyond horizon

Radar horizon is very very far away for a anti ballistic missile defense sensor. Outside of the very short range missiles you are talking about altitudes in the 100's of km's.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 13 Feb 2017 04:23

ramana wrote:finally got rid of the liquid fuel Prithvi engine based on SA-2.

So PDV is single stage ABM missile? And goes to 120 km. i.e. ~400k feet

Great job.

It is two-staged, both solid. In the latest picture, you can see the two stages distinctly. I think what has also happened in the last test, and missed by all reporters is that in this latest iteration, the lower stage has become all-composite.

Katare · Post by **Katare** » 13 Feb 2017 05:19

Beyond 80km altitude the sky is black not blue so that hit to kill pic had to be something much closer to the earth cannot be exo intercept. The kill picture at those distance could only be a telemetry snap. Have we seen any high altitude interception picture in optical spectrum with or without blue sky from anywhere?

Bheeshma · Post by **Bheeshma** » 13 Feb 2017 05:26

Good. The composite stage should help reduce the mass. I have never found specs for the weight of PDV, unlike AAD.

ranjan.rao · Post by **ranjan.rao** » 13 Feb 2017 05:46

brar_w wrote:
was searching how does the detection of BM at long ranges occur because the missiles are way beyond horizon
Radar horizon is very very far away for a anti ballistic missile defense sensor. Outside of the very short range missiles you are talking about altitudes in the 100's of km's.

brar oracle, i was thought of paging you on this but thought of doing some noob search myself..haven't got much ..let the nanha mujahid do some work..