Indian IT Industry

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KJo
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by KJo »

What's the story on Swiggy? It is a food ecommerce company in India. I had a linkedin contact with an HR woman when I was looking in BLR and she has moved to swiggy. They seem to be hiring a lot. How are they doing?
KJo
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by KJo »

Mahesh Murthy's name is being kicked into the mud.
The screenshots look pretty inappropriate. However, before he pays the price, some investigation is done. It should not become an easy way to extort.

https://indianceo.in/news/exclusive-not ... epreneurs/
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by asgkhan »

http://bangaloremirror.indiatimes.com/b ... 292560.cms

India's biggest e-commerce company is now looking to lease just 0.83 million sq ft office space. The initial agreement was for 3 million sq ft from southern property developer Embassy Group, which was subsequently downsized to 2 million before the company finally decided on the current lease deal.

The deal was originally struck when the funding boom was at its peak. At the time, it was the country's single largest office lease deal. Flipkart has not raised funds in the past 18 months, even as it defends its leadership position in a bruising marketplace war with Amazon.

The lease, which is for 20 years, would see Flipkart pay Rs 50 per sq ft, which translates into an annual rent of about Rs 50 crore.
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Singha »

there are currently renting about that same space in a SEZ near my office. perhaps they will shift there at cheaper rate. any large hiring growth is unlikely for some time.
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by asgkhan »

Snapdeal - another company circling the drain. Maybe they can merge shopclues + snapdeal + flipkart and then take on Amazon and still lose.
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Singha »

In 2016 the snapdeal founders had cash comp of 1.5 crore and with board permission liquidated 35 cr of their stock to get cash in hand.

Nice try going on 0 salary now ..but that 35 cr came from vc funding or operating revenue.
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Singha »

And this atop 45 crore raked in 2015

http://www.firstpost.com/business/at-rs ... 75644.html
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Singha »

Snapdeal and paytm ecommerce will be merged under alibaba talks are on per some reports.

Paytm has given up on ecomm and only talks up mobile wallet these days with its founder the self proclaimed king of demo....paid articles all over as the next mahdi...setting himself up for a fall perhaps...watch for any top execs slinking away
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Singha »

Or maybe alibaba has walked away from the fight with amzn and is waiting for a fkart fire sale than pick up these two wounded.

The han is a seeker of good bargains.
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Marten »

As if almost on cue from our discussion about storing biometrics and the mechanism to detect fraudulent activity:

Probe against 3 firms for illegal use of Aadhaar biometrics
UIDAI has lodged a criminal complaint with the cyber cell of Delhi Police against 3 firms for illegal use of Aadhaar biometrics
Firms under scanner are Axis Bank, Mumbai-based Suvidhaa Infoserve and Bengaluru-based eMudhra, and they have been served a “notice for action” under Aadhaar regulations
The complaint was filed after UIDAI detected an exact biometric match in multiple consecutive transactions which the authority said was not possible without the biometrics being stored and their unauthorised use.

UIDAI officials noticed that one individual performed 397 biometric transactions between July 14, 2016 and February 19, 2017. Out of this, 194 transactions were performed through Axis Bank, 112 through eMudhra and 91 through Suvidhaa Infoserve.

What stood out was that multiple transactions were performed concurrently with different user agencies — Axis, eMudhra and Suvidhaa — which suggested a common element attempting the illegal operations.

Suvidhaa Infoserve CEO Paresh Rajde told TOI, "While testing the application, the developer had sent four transactions concurrently which is not allowed. There was no financial loss. It was a test transaction." He said his company was a business correspondent of Axis Bank and distributed Aadhaar-linked products on behalf of the bank and they were testing the application for the Axis Suvidhaa pre-paid card.

Axis Bank's spokesperson said, "We have received a query from UIDAI. This pertains to testing done by Suvidhaa, one of our business correspondent, on some of their clients on the UIDAI server. We would like to state that there is no financial loss caused by the testing done by Suvidhaa. Needless to add that we are in touch with UIDAI on this and would be sharing detailed responses on their queries soon."

The third firm, eMudhra, could not be contacted. TOI did not receive any response to email queries sent to the company.

Sources were sceptical of claims that operations were part of testing under controlled circumstances as use of stored biometrics is a violation of the Aadhaar law and can attract a jail term of three years. Pending a probe, the authentication operation of the firms concerned has been suspended, a UIDAI source said.
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Singha »

i read now the startup ecomm emulation model is Infibeam a less known Guj based co which went public in April 2016. market cap of 7500 cr and profitable. snapdeal wants to be infibeam now.

snapdeal is under attack by organizations of online sellers who say they are a payments risk with 200-300 cr pending at any time. sellers have been asked to keep books current or avoid selling on snapdeal. they are losing sellers. monthly shipments are down to 50% of their peak.

unless some rich sugar daddy emerges to inject funds they have around 10 months of runway left. the founders have talked to the guy who turned around spicejet for ideas.
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Singha »

the VCs are also like tolerant parents of spoilt kids once they invest and double down.
if a co is not making profit, does it justify approving 45cr and 35cr of phantom stock buybacks using their funds to compensate the founders?

this whole idea of using losses and big foreign money to 'disrupt' the marketplace ... isnt it just cartelization and price fixing in another form? the small domestic guy working on normal accounting has no chance to climbing uphill and will fold eventually.
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Santosh »

After 15 long years in land of milk and honey, I am planning to R2I this June. Starting to look for itvity jobs in Mumbai. It feels very different thinking about leaving massa. But I am excited about moving to Mumbai. BTW, I can't find the R2I dhaga. Has it been nuked by admins?
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Vayutuvan »

KJo wrote:
arshyam wrote:KJo saar, aren't you ever bored by the non-stop TCS bhajanam? Serious question.
All true stories saar. There are so many, it is unbelievable. :D

Another true story is in 1977, top honcho FC Kohli at an emerging TCS was trying to recruit my dad to some top post there. He interviewed my dad at Memphis Airport on the day Elvis Presley died in Memphis. But my dad wanted to return to desh and start his own company which he eventually did.

Those were the glory days when they hired quality people rather than the bulk body dumping they do nowadins. :P
I joined in 1982 foregoing an offer to start an accounting arm of Hinduras in Singapore. I was netting 1800 Pm. Also had an offer from telco for 3k pm plus two year head start (my PGDxx) and one from BEL and two more - one in PUne and another in UK - netting more tha TCS. But TCS work environment, peers, projects, training were all much better than all others. No regrets as such. But then TCS had a head count of just 450 and was planning to go to 750 or so by 1985.
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by abhischekcc »

Singha wrote:the VCs are also like tolerant parents of spoilt kids once they invest and double down.
if a co is not making profit, does it justify approving 45cr and 35cr of phantom stock buybacks using their funds to compensate the founders?

this whole idea of using losses and big foreign money to 'disrupt' the marketplace ... isnt it just cartelization and price fixing in another form? the small domestic guy working on normal accounting has no chance to climbing uphill and will fold eventually.
That's the game. The VCs are the new EICs and many of the well funded start ups are just their local henchmen.

When you think about how well spread IT skills are in India, and also the fact that it takes very little seed money to start a startup (if done in a local garage/room/etc) - then the current culture should have allowed millions of small, local startups. But because of foreign funding, only a few companies can actually compete in the market because they are able to out-market their competitors. When a well funded start up subsidizes its vendors (say in taxis or in hotel rooms), it is monopolistic behaviour and this was earlier banned in India. The whole game seems to be to prevent genuine businesses to arise and only allow foreign money to disrupt Indian businesses.
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Singha »

Oyo is another with no physical inventory but massive red ink. The founder hand picked by thiel himself for his fellowship.
I have heard poor reviews of oyo room from friend who is in marketing and sometimes need to travel on short notice.

Being shut out of china, the americans and chinese are jointly the new eic.
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by asgkhan »

Stayzilla has suspended operations. They want to re-work their operating model. That is gobbleydeegook for fire the fat and become leaner.
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Singha »

http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 262_1.html

https://www.quora.com/How-profitable-if ... -is-Airbnb

quote: Given their aggressive strategies in overseas expansion and customer acquisition, they were incurring a significant operating loss at $150 million in 2015. But in the long run, that could pay off since its valuation seemed to have exceeded that of Marriott, which is one of the largest hotel chains in the world. There seems to be something that investors see highly of Airbnb to be worth the colossal amount of funding it gets from its investors.

Understandably, as the customer base increases for Airbnb, there will be more economies of scale and thus a higher margin for Airbnb. Perhaps it is not that profitable right now but as margin increases with more customers, the long-term returns will exceed the costs but we do not know for sure.

Only time will tell but from the way things are going for Airbnb, it sure bodes well for them.
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Singha »

tracing the money flow back to its root - how do the american VCs have such colossal amounts of money ? they dont mine gold, or have a printing press...neither did most of them make it in some other line of work outside of itivity.

my theory

I think they got their initial big billions via two means
- founder shares in IPO
- pooled VC funds wherein rich from any other sector (incl itvity) deposit their money in hopes of huge returns

so how does the shares get changed to money - typically when founders and venture funds unload stake sale in IPO they want make $$ for minimum stake dilution. so a army of media MSM and 'merchant bankers' are drummed in for media hype and roadshows (like snap is doing now) to perk up the retail investors interest and that of outside mutual funds who are holding the retail investor and pension savings. higher the noise, higher the valuation.
so dilute some small stake, smaller the better and make the first few 100 million. lots of people in fbook and google did. they deposit into VC funds or have a side work of being angles or pools of angels evaluating other business ideas, using for own venture or seeding other ventures.

but I do feel at end of day, so long as the hype cycle or business result keeps the unloaded stock price high its fine. but if it heads south the founders and the initial funders are fine, its the retail investors whose net worth takes a nosedive.

earlier MFs were more disciplined in investing and use to do value investing for long term. these days many want quick returns to attract inflows and are willing to play along in the game in the hope of suckering others later. or because others are doing it.
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Singha »

hard to imagine but millions of regular Joe's retirement and kids college savings in MFs will soon depend on the maker of this ridiculous spectacle and the promised pipelines of edgy and successful hw products as in apple

Image
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by yogendra »

asgkhan wrote:Stayzilla has suspended operations. They want to re-work their operating model. That is gobbleydeegook for fire the fat and become leaner.
Well, that... and more.

https://blog.stayzilla.com/stayzilla-wi ... .d596rbemk
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by yogendra »

Singha wrote:tracing the money flow back to its root - how do the american VCs have such colossal amounts of money ? they dont mine gold, or have a printing press...neither did most of them make it in some other line of work outside of itivity.

my theory

I think they got their initial big billions via two means
- founder shares in IPO
- pooled VC funds wherein rich from any other sector (incl itvity) deposit their money in hopes of huge returns

so how does the shares get changed to money - typically when founders and venture funds unload stake sale in IPO they want make $$ for minimum stake dilution. so a army of media MSM and 'merchant bankers' are drummed in for media hype and roadshows (like snap is doing now) to perk up the retail investors interest and that of outside mutual funds who are holding the retail investor and pension savings. higher the noise, higher the valuation.
so dilute some small stake, smaller the better and make the first few 100 million. lots of people in fbook and google did. they deposit into VC funds or have a side work of being angles or pools of angels evaluating other business ideas, using for own venture or seeding other ventures.

but I do feel at end of day, so long as the hype cycle or business result keeps the unloaded stock price high its fine. but if it heads south the founders and the initial funders are fine, its the retail investors whose net worth takes a nosedive.

earlier MFs were more disciplined in investing and use to do value investing for long term. these days many want quick returns to attract inflows and are willing to play along in the game in the hope of suckering others later. or because others are doing it.
I am the founder of Stayzilla. I might be able to add some perspective from my own experience.

Just like how start ups pitch to VCs and raise funds from them, all VCs pitch to various fund managers who manage pension funds (401K, Canadian pension funds...), endowments, sovereign funds. These fund managers choose and invest from various VCs pitching to them with different thesis and become Limited Partners in the VC funds. 80-90% of the whole VC pool across all VC funds are funded indirectly by savings of aam admis from Continental US & Europe. The VC investments are usually a very minor part of the LP's larger portfolio.

Indian aam admi's capital, on the other hand, is happily stuck in real estate and gold. This is the ONLY reason desi startups are all majorly foreign owned. And because the market makers are foreign owned in this segment, there is a bias towards a particular set of sectors, strategies and philosophies that have worked for them there. We have all of one fund that has all LPs from India - Blume Ventures - and they invest only in the early stages.

I have been joking for the last 5 years when meeting Investors abroad, that the day Indians stop investing in real estate & gold and instead make their savings more liquid, I wouldn't have to come so far to raise money. Till this changes there will always be an existential dichotomy between what is valued by desi entrepreneurs and what is valued by the system giving the capital.

There is no grand evil plan here.Just systemic weakness in India wrt liquidity despite being wealthy enough as an economy to fund our own entrepreneurs at this stage.

The demonetization hopefully helps us in the long run so that Indian entrepreneurs can find more depth in the capital markets here.

And I might just have more time now to post on BRF :D :D
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Singha »

:shock:

I do believe you are genuinely the one of the founders after checking your registration email. welcome sir and hope you can post on topics of interest and share your exp from the field like you did above.

indians are also fond of FD/PPF/NSC (older gen, newer gen both) and for some reason those who tread into stocks, do so directly as punters relying on periodic 'tips' trying to make money on market movements rather than put too much in MFs even index funds - the supposedly higher returns of timing the market and not paying the expense ratio keeps them out of MFs - where the vast bulk of western and japanese savings are kept. whatever they can put at risk they will put in stocks and keep timing market and rest in FDs. there is no middle ground.

there is a small class of day traders / speculators in metros who trade in big amts and do it daily. not really investors.

Indians *have* to invest in real estate because there is no social security or pension (except govt employees) post retirement to keep renting and many want two homes one to live and one to rent, or atleast extend their home into a rentable surplus.

gold *has* held its value well and escalated tremendously in price, so one cannot say its been a bad investment atleast in the last 15 years. but its not that liquid and has costs involved in converting into cash, still jewellers will readily buy gold and give cash.

we are at the level where mid-rung people like carpenters and plumbers are barely starting to use cheque books, NEFT, ATMs ... we have some ways to go before mass adoption of complex financial instruments - so in that sense something physical like gold, land or cash under mattress keeps people happy.

over last 30 yrs, gold has moved from min value of around $8000/kg to $40000kg - about 5% rate of growth compounded monthly but much faster in the last 15 yrs after a long slump.
http://goldprice.org/gold-price-chart.html
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by pandyan »

In the US, tax policies encourage you to actively invest in 401K for post retirement use (interest rates are so low FDs are not attractive). and vast majority of that money flows into MF. just imagine the clout these $100s of Billion to $$trillion funds have in the market. Some do sweep up large apartment complexes as well. Large index based funds are probably safe for normal investors...but for the adventurous types they demand all kinds of varieties and growth opportunities. there is a good chance that large % of this money can flow into developing markets. china used to grab a lot of it...now it is india's turn.
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by kvraghav »

Any bank related investment schemes like FD is still fine since that will be used to fund a business as loan but real estate has to fall. This will happen only when Bangalore becomes a ghost city like Detroit. The day is not far though. All the other cities will be cautious then.
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Manish_P »

yogendra wrote: I am the founder of Stayzilla. I might be able to add some perspective from my own experience.

And I might just have more time now to post on BRF :D :D
Strange day

The same day i read that Stayzilla suspends operations(i work in a somewhat related industry), i see it's founders first post on BRF (a forum i am a follower of)

:)
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by yogendra »

Singhaji Sir, I have read a lot on BRF. I have learnt a lot from you since 2009 along with a lot of stalwarts like Rammana, Suraj, Raja Ram, Brihaspati, Marten and so many more... that naming everyone would be a full time job! Please don't 'Sir' me. Call me Yogi. Otherwise you will be Singhaji Sir to me!

I don't blame my issues with the current system on Indians as individuals. I can understand their situation pretty well. My parents swear by RE. Mainly small properties (1-2 BHK) for the rental income. And today my personal stand against it is also weakened given where my company is, even though I still believe that systemically we have a issue when we value immovable assets over innovation. They had also been the first investors of my company from 2005 helping me whenever I had any month with negative cashflow. 10 years back, I had (when I got to know of a small RE transaction in the 40 Lakh range my parents were doing when my company also required an equivalent & sizable investment to go to the next stage) told my Dad in anger that not to ever bequeath me any of his RE assets as I would sell it for scrap in just 1 month and invest in a lot of business which I knew required capital to scale. And that he is better off giving it away. The righteous anger of the youth!

Coming to difference between our PF and 401K. 401Ks have a much better system in-terms of allowing flexibility for the employee on how much they want to invest in interest, dividend or shareholder based returns which in turn encourages fund managers to explore more options and stages to invest in. A Google, Facebook, Uber and multiple other valley companies that have gone global would not have been possible without a system where public's pension can have a privatized component which is then decentralized allowing independent decision-taking (encouraged more like) across a multitude of VC, PE, Hedge and Mutual funds. Even the Indian competitors whom I am rooting for -like a Flipkart and Ola- are funded by the same mechanism. The decentralization & delegation of the decision on where to deploy -their part of the- capital from the collected pension is the key.

And I have no complaints personally, as these ecosystems are built over generations and we are only now moving in that direction. I myself am a product of 5 different entrepreneurs - 2 of whom were my Parents - and 3 of them whom I interned with in 1999 as a kid. They opened up my mind to the opportunities and risk in terms of being an entrepreneur. All external 3 of them failed in those days (at some point I'll definitely write a little more on that). The learnings from their failures however showed me a path that got me till here. And my own failures should certainly show me - and I hope other entrepreneurs who are stepping in- on how to go further along the path by avoiding mistakes I had made. And that is the reason, I wanted to be as upfront on the rebooting post as I could. Systemic success can only come over generations by learning from individual failures.

In a nutshell, we need to encourage a larger pool of liquidity created within the country which is then fed into a system that delegates and decentralizes the decision of deployment of smaller parts of that pool which then then invest in entrepreneurs who can help us take over the world.
Last edited by yogendra on 25 Feb 2017 20:20, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by yogendra »

Manish_P wrote:
yogendra wrote: I am the founder of Stayzilla. I might be able to add some perspective from my own experience.

And I might just have more time now to post on BRF :D :D
Strange day

The same day i read that Stayzilla suspends operations(i work in a somewhat related industry), i see it's founders first post on BRF (a forum i am a follower of)

:)
I have the best people across fields from call centre operations to machine learning. If you have any opening, please mail me at yogi@stayzilla.com.
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by negi »

^ Boss you have an email from negi dot novino at google email.
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by KJo »

yogendra, I wish you the best in your next venture. It takes guts to start something.
Good luck to you and post here about what you are up to.
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by anchal »

Yogi saar, you may mail me certain profiles at rozee.farah at jee male dot com especially in data science and ML. Folks preferring NCR would have an advantage
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by pandyan »

Yogi saar good to hear your perspective!
I decided to start on my own as well and launched few online courses on ML, Python etc
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by kenop »

Good to know you Yogi saar.
You got a mail from myid dot thisplace jeemail
There is a story on your "pivoting" in TOIlet paper today.
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Javee »

Yogi, like they say, it takes guts to live your dreams admit defeat and reorient back again. Best of luck.

And I agree on the funding difficulties, I faced the same dilemma last year and after thinking it through shut it down. It's difficult, but then, like you/Marten said I know the mistakes I did and learnt from it.
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Javee »

The Unique Identification Authority of India (UIDAI) has reportedly shut down 12 websites and 12 apps available on Google Playstore. These apps and websites were allegedly offering Aadhaar-related services illegally and charging excessive money from the public.

These alleged unauthorised agencies were providing services such as downloading online Aadhaar card, providing status of Aadhaar generation, PVC Aadhaar Card, etc. In the process they were obtaining the Aadhaar number/enrolment details from the residents, illegally as per a UIDAI statement.

https://inc42.com/buzz/uidai-websites-apps-shutdown/
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Singha »

in january the RBI mandated the credit rating agencies to give free cibil report to anyone once per calendar year.

but true to form the weasels are technically obeying the law but making it very very hard to get it for free, while fronting their paid service.

I tried experian after hearing about it from their chief in a radio interview. firstly there is no easy link to the free report or even telling we are entitled to it, but paid report service is prominent. finally after a google search i found the link - it started asking all sorts of tough questions to "verify" like which year did i close my loan, what was the highest ever credit balance on my CC out of 4 options and so on. ultimately it declared I had failed and asked me to email their customer service with a copy of my id-address proof which I did. 2 weeks no response as expected . I am going to send them a strongly worded mail, else I will complain about this to whoever held out that guideline.

this is deceptive compliance to govt mandate
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Marten »

Yogendra, best of luck for your next venture. Continue inspiring the youth.
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by yogendra »

Thanks for the support, everyone!
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Vikas »

Singha wrote:in january the RBI mandated the credit rating agencies to give free cibil report to anyone once per calendar year.

but true to form the weasels are technically obeying the law but making it very very hard to get it for free, while fronting their paid service.

this is deceptive compliance to govt mandate
Horror movie about CIBIL report is that once you are stuck with some negative reference, it is next to impossible to get it removed.
I got rejected by multiple Banks for my Credit card recently despite owning a card since 2001 and maintaining salary accounts in Banks. Reason being that CIBIL report showed some outstanding amount of INR 56K against me from Some Bank in year 2005 (No one knows which bank and how I am supposed to figure it out) and I am expected to close this outstanding. Simple ways of troubling folks.
Vikas
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Re: Indian IT Industry

Post by Vikas »

Yogi Ji, Welcome, Good Luck and Good wishes.
Lot of us during our course of life may join startups if not start them up. Your experience will surely help.
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