Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Locked
chola
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5136
Joined: 16 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: USA

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by chola »

Cybaru wrote:I don't think its gotta do with either Russians or Americans, its what we want to do and how we want to proceed. We seem to find it comforting to import and assemble rather than take the more difficult road of designing and building.
I'm not saying we are not at fault for a good part of this predicament. But look at the Dhruv. It is a Western partnership and we exported more of those than we ever did after decades of Russian screwdrivering. And guess what, all the bribery shenanigans aside, I think we will sell Advanced Hawks. At the very least, we CAN sell them unlike the Sukhoi or the MiG technology we're supposed to have gotten.

I think there is a fundamental difference between western firms and russian ones when it comes to customers, especially when comes to India.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by ramana »

Neela, Its grapes are sour approach.

IAF is tired of waiting for IJT and hence decide to live with what it has.
But am afraid once IJT is fully canned the need will rise like Lazarus form the dead.
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by shiv »

On the general consensus that air forces are moving out of "IJT"s and going for just two-stage training - I am reminded of the 1960s when it was predicted that all weapons would be laser weapons by 1990. Why 1960s? Just a decade ago we BRFites were "aheading our curve" by quoting pundits who said that manned aircraft are becoming obsolete. Funnily enough when someone claims that he consulted an astrologer our secular western universalism button gets pressed and we go "harrumph"
Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by Singha »

On a related note the jsf finally fired its guns in flight this week.

Has the tejas fully qualified its guns? Due to smoke and vibration this should be one of early than late items
brar_w
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10694
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by brar_w »

Singha wrote:On a related note the jsf finally fired its guns in flight this week.

Has the tejas fully qualified its guns? Due to smoke and vibration this should be one of early than late items
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=5098&p=2126302#p2126302
Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8428
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: LCA: News & Discussions - October 2016

Post by Indranil »

Chinmay wrote:Cybaru, my response was to Shiv's query. CAS is a mission and has been performed by all aircraft ranging from drones to helicopters to B1 bombers, so no aircraft in production today has been 'designed for' CAS. The era of dedicated CAS aircraft like the A-10 or Su-25 is over.
Are you sure? Because the neither the USAF, nor the RuAF are sure.
Chinmay
BRFite
Posts: 263
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 07:25

Re: LCA: News & Discussions - October 2016

Post by Chinmay »

Indranil wrote:
Chinmay wrote:Cybaru, my response was to Shiv's query. CAS is a mission and has been performed by all aircraft ranging from drones to helicopters to B1 bombers, so no aircraft in production today has been 'designed for' CAS. The era of dedicated CAS aircraft like the A-10 or Su-25 is over.
Are you sure? Because the neither the USAF, nor the RuAF are sure.
Well, yes. I read about an upgrade plan for the A-10, but that will mean that the plane will soldier on till 2030 max? As for the Su-25, the Russians have plenty of those and they are useful in Syria, but they won't continue beyond a point as well.

None of these aircraft are 'in production', which is what I was asked in the first place, and either way its a moot point for us as we don't need a dedicated aircraft for that purpose.
Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: LCA: News & Discussions - October 2016

Post by Singha »

future of CAS is helicopters with laser guided rockets, small ATGMs, cannons at one end and bomb trucks at high level releasing guided weapons...perhaps cued by third party or F&F sensor fused or designated by LDP

the KA52 already seems like a hybrid of a heli and a su25 type plane.

also with artillery & MLRS growing ever more accurate and long ranged, with networking the army will not need so much CAS calls to AF. a 1/2 regiment of 9 x 155mm can deliver some 27 shells/minute on target for 5 minutes for 135 x 40kg with fire spotting by a LOH or UAV. to get this support, will take hours for IAF to send its birds while IA can get it done by arty as and when it needs. a indian division cannot really expect much 24x7 air support so we need to overload on artillery and attack helis.

let the IAF focus on interdiction and high value rear area targets. and provide AD over the front.

so IA, which is loading up on new arty and attack helos will do fine...
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: LCA: News & Discussions - October 2016

Post by shiv »

Singha wrote:future of CAS is helicopters with laser guided rockets, small ATGMs, cannons at one end and bomb trucks at high level releasing guided weapons...perhaps cued by third party or F&F sensor fused or designated by LDP
One of the main drawbacks of helicopters is speed of response because of flying time to target. Targets that are some distance away are better addressed by a jet capable of flying to the area faster. This was one of the reasons why F-16s proved better than Predators in some situations. During the Meghna airlift in 1971 - the helicopter troop landing areas were being shelled by distant artillery guided by spotters sitting on a 300 foot high grain silo. One sortie in which a Gnat fired 30 mm cannon through the windows of the grain silo onto the faces of the spotter put and end to the artillery barrage
Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: LCA: News & Discussions - October 2016

Post by Singha »

maybe if each corps having its aviation wing => the heli bases owned by the army with be not more than 50km out from most targets. there will ofcourse be downtimes but they can afford a lot more helis too. the Rudra should be fairly cheap vs a proper fighter.

a good army aviation wing staffed with Rudra and LCH with good weapons will carve up the enemy if air cover is provided. LCH has the mistral aam also for chance encounters with other helis.

not sure about manpads threat though
Cain Marko
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5352
Joined: 26 Jun 2005 10:26

Re: LCA: News & Discussions - October 2016

Post by Cain Marko »

Chinmay wrote:
Indranil wrote: Are you sure? Because the neither the USAF, nor the RuAF are sure.
Well, yes. I read about an upgrade plan for the A-10, but that will mean that the plane will soldier on till 2030 max? As for the Su-25, the Russians have plenty of those and they are useful in Syria, but they won't continue beyond a point as well.

None of these aircraft are 'in production', which is what I was asked in the first place, and either way its a moot point for us as we don't need a dedicated aircraft for that purpose.
What about the su34? Tbh though it is multirole
Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: LCA: News & Discussions - October 2016

Post by Singha »

fighters are definitely a lot more resilient vs the AA/manpad threat.
Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21538
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: LCA: News & Discussions - October 2016

Post by Philip »

The IA should also posses light attack aircraft apart from attack helos like the KA-52,heavily armoured ,flying tanks and LCHs. The MI-35s have served us v.well. The IAF shouldn't have this dog-in-the-manger attitude when it comes to attack helos,which in most services abroad,come under the army's control. If they sacrifice the attack helo role to the IA,they could use the funds tied up for that for increasing numbers of fighters and LR strike aircraft like SU-34s,Backfires,whatever. However,a former chief was dead against the creation of new "small air forces" or words to that effect. What the IAF could also do by sacrificing the attack helos,is to induct a new light attack jet for close support,which could be an armed version of a trainer like the Yak-130,armed Hawk,a task urgently required ,since the MIG-27s too will be retired soon. I earlier suggested new armoured Jags to replace the MIG-27s,but small armed trainers too would be quite attractive. The little subsonic Gnat performed v. well in our past wars with Pak,none lost to ground fire.
vina
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6046
Joined: 11 May 2005 06:56
Location: Doing Nijikaran, Udharikaran and Baazarikaran to Commies and Assorted Leftists

Re: LCA: News & Discussions - October 2016

Post by vina »

Singha wrote:future of CAS is helicopters with laser guided rockets, small ATGMs, cannons at one end and bomb trucks at high level releasing guided weapons...perhaps cued by third party or F&F sensor fused or designated by LDP
Future of CAS is a HTT-34 with weapons and an integral cannon for plinking tanks. Yes. That fixed wing component should be under Army command. A HTT-40 kind will have a range of close to 1000Km. Need not be based in forward areas and will have great persistence if based there.
Marten
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2176
Joined: 01 Jan 2010 21:41
Location: Engaging Communists, Uber-Socialists, Maoists, and other pro-poverty groups in fruitful dialog.

Re: LCA: News & Discussions - October 2016

Post by Marten »

OT but how is a small trainer more efficient than a Rudra? The operational cost aside, how effective is it?
Gyan
BRFite
Posts: 1596
Joined: 26 Aug 2016 19:14

Re: LCA: News & Discussions - October 2016

Post by Gyan »

Two engined CAT AJT proposed by HAL powered by HTFE 25 may also be suitable
Manish_Sharma
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5128
Joined: 07 Sep 2009 16:17

Re: LCA: News & Discussions - October 2016

Post by Manish_Sharma »

Tejas powered by Kaveri mfrd in 270 numbers would be best for CAS role !!!
Singha
BRF Oldie
Posts: 66601
Joined: 13 Aug 2004 19:42
Location: the grasshopper lies heavy

Re: LCA: News & Discussions - October 2016

Post by Singha »

its going to need a powerful engine for sure. payload adds up. a basic trainer usually flies clean and 1 hr missions only. CAS is more like a 3 hr mission with a decent payload to strike targets of opportunity.

else we will get unseemly sights like what the iraqis were forced to use before getting czech,korean,russian and american planes.

a grand total of 4 hellfires on 2 external pylons. but perhaps a long loiter time
Image
Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8428
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by Indranil »



HAL's ambitious amphibian design specs:
1. 15 tons payload :eek:
2. Range 4000 kms :eek:
3. Loiter time: 1.5 hours
4. Service ceiling: 9 km
5. Gross weight: 47 Tons
6. Twin turbofan: 133 kN each
7. 100 passengers
8. fuselage length: 32 mtrs
9. T Tail
10. Sponsonless. New method called SAGAR, also aids in STOL.

So this an US-2/AG-600 class aircraft!!
Mihir
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 884
Joined: 14 Nov 2004 21:26

Re: LCA: News & Discussions - October 2016

Post by Mihir »

vina wrote:Future of CAS is a HTT-34 with weapons and an integral cannon for plinking tanks. Yes. That fixed wing component should be under Army command. A HTT-40 kind will have a range of close to 1000Km. Need not be based in forward areas and will have great persistence if based there.
An integral cannon on a Deepak? :eek: It isn't going to be powerful enough to plink anything other than soft-skinned keeps and tricks. Even the GAU-8 comes up short against a T-72.
GShankar
BRFite
Posts: 974
Joined: 16 Sep 2016 20:20

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by GShankar »

How did the subject change from "Indian Military Aviation" to "LCA: News & Discussions - October 2016"?

This trend start from this post - viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7098&p=2129592#p2128188

FYI.
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by shiv »

GShankar wrote:How did the subject change from "Indian Military Aviation" to "LCA: News & Discussions - October 2016"?

This trend start from this post - viewtopic.php?f=3&t=7098&p=2129592#p2128188

FYI.
Those posts were in the LCA thread but moved to this thread by Adminulla (May Choice Goat Droppings be Upon Him)
vina
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6046
Joined: 11 May 2005 06:56
Location: Doing Nijikaran, Udharikaran and Baazarikaran to Commies and Assorted Leftists

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by vina »

Indranil wrote: 10. Sponsonless. New method called SAGAR, also aids in STOL.
So this an US-2/AG-600 class aircraft!!
Highly risky . Unproven. Looks quaint. Will need sub scale model to be tested and control systems proven before it can be put into a full aircraft. And I am a little confused here.

1. They have made the float/hull stable like a ship (by having metacenter above CG).. So I guess in a static/rest position it will be stable and wont topple.

2. However, while take off, since it is a planing hull (where , weight NOT = buoyancy, a portion of weight is supported by hydrodynamic lift in water), the stability is an issue as the water plane area reduces. I guess this stability augmentation scheme is for these regimes.

Again, I am not sure if the they have thought all this out. So let me summarise what I THINK (could be wrong) they have done.

The stabilisation scheme (on water) is like a conventional boat. To possibly cater to stability decrease during high speed taxiing and take off run, and landing , they have active stability augmentation. I think the more difficult problem is stability during landing where it touches down in a flare and there isn't enough waterline area for it to have transverse stability.

Which brings back the question. Have they REALLY thought this through ? Who are the customers for this. Turbofan engines ? Why ? A turbo prop will be more efficient. Is it going to be a transonic plane like an airliner that flies at mach 0.85 or so, having a swept wing and hence turbofan engines , or is it going to be a straight wing, fly at mach 0.65 odd, plane that is meant for SAR and patrol and stuff able to land and take off in pretty rough sea states ?

If it is the latter and not airliner substitute, that lands and takes off in calm water and the risks involved in active stabilisation and the development effort involved , this entire thing seems ill considered and frankly quite overdone.

Which brings us back to the question.

Question : So how does a catamaran /outrigger canoe differ from a traditional monohull (yeah, catamaran have multiple hulls .. that is not the question. how do they differ in working?)

Hint/Ans : A catamaran /outrigger canoe are different in how they work from a traditional monohull . A monohull is stabilised by gravity (just CG and buoyancy at play here). A catamaran /outrigger are geometry stabilised. A traditional seaplane is like a catamaran /outrigger canoe with the outrigger floats, while what HAL is proposing is a monohull with artificial stability augmentation in critical phases. If they want to get rid of the outboard wing floats, they are better off going for the Boeing 314 Clipper / Dornier flying boat kind of scheme, and they can put the landing gear in that as well for amphibious operations, in addition to make that sponson generate lift
Last edited by vina on 16 Mar 2017 13:54, edited 1 time in total.
Rishi Verma
BRFite
Posts: 1019
Joined: 28 Oct 2016 13:08

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by Rishi Verma »

How about NLCA trainer version as IJT with software change.
srai
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5247
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by srai »

Rishi Verma wrote:How about NLCA trainer version as IJT with software change.
That conversion would be more like Lead In Fighter Trainer (LIFT) -- an step up from Hawk AJT.
Gyan
BRFite
Posts: 1596
Joined: 26 Aug 2016 19:14

Re: LCA: News & Discussions - October 2016

Post by Gyan »

Manish_Sharma wrote:Tejas powered by Kaveri mfrd in 270 numbers would be best for CAS role !!!
Also as an AJT and Combat Trainer
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by shiv »

Indranil wrote:
HAL's ambitious amphibian design specs:
1. 15 tons payload :eek:
2. Range 4000 kms :eek:
3. Loiter time: 1.5 hours
4. Service ceiling: 9 km
5. Gross weight: 47 Tons
6. Twin turbofan: 133 kN each
7. 100 passengers
8. fuselage length: 32 mtrs
9. T Tail
10. Sponsonless. New method called SAGAR, also aids in STOL.

So this an US-2/AG-600 class aircraft!!
I wish them well. Unless we are bold and grow out of "light this" and "medium that" we are never going to move forward. I need to see more of this
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by shiv »

A little comment on the video above and the photo of women working on Tejas in the LCA thread. People of my generation (and earlier) have spent decades sending our sons abroad to make a new life outside what we thought was a useless nation with no future. I am moved to see our daughters taking up the slack. I wish them well.
Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8428
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by Indranil »

Vina, I completely agree with you. I don't see the point of this project. How many large amphibians are in service today? How many does India need 20-30 at most. And for that, we undertake such a high risk undertaking. It involves hydrodynamics, aerodynamics and now this completely unproven rowing technology. I thought they were talking about adding floats to the 228 or converting it for amphibious use. That made sense, because that kind of tourism is kicking off in India. But how the hell will you feel up 90 passengers from a jetty or something. And how will one ensure safety. Who will generate that facility on the shore.

There are much lower lying fruits. NCAD project should not be an ab-initio development. The time, experience and resources we have are short. We should get an existing design and modify or upgrade. We lost the Dornier 328/428/528/728/928 series to Turkey. The Saudis are running with the Antonov designs. HAL should try to find out if ATR would like to sell the Jetstream 61 designs. ATR has no use for them, and it is developed from the HS-748 which HAL license built. A turbofan variant can be developed from this version. In addition, they can go with Kawasaki with the higher capacity version. They are also looking for a partner.

A mid-tire transport is another open void for which there will be orders as soon as a plane arrives.

Hakeem, I am also very very happy to see all these women in NAL/HAL/DRDO/ISRO. Not many countries can brag about women leading such ambitious projects of national importance.
Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8428
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by Indranil »

vina
BRF Oldie
Posts: 6046
Joined: 11 May 2005 06:56
Location: Doing Nijikaran, Udharikaran and Baazarikaran to Commies and Assorted Leftists

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by vina »

Indranil wrote: How many large amphibians are in service today? How many does India need 20-30 at most.
For this, I have no hesitation in saying this. HAL. Don't waste your time with such a niche product. GO BUY THIS / license produce this.


In fact, if the Japanese are acting antsy with the US-2, we should get the militarised version of this. This is exactly what HAL wants to develop. The Russians will be willing to sell. They have not made any money whatsoever out of developing it and haven't many themselves.

It is just possible that the US-2 has better STOL capabilities and can operate in higher sea states. That is important for SAR and to ensure access to remote places like Andamans in all sorts of sea conditions.
abhik
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3090
Joined: 02 Feb 2009 17:42

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by abhik »

I didn't watch the whole video but isn't it just conceptual study a.k.a a paper plane which will never be built?
srai
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5247
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 11:31

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by srai »

abhik wrote:I didn't watch the whole video but isn't it just conceptual study a.k.a a paper plane which will never be built?
It's a very early conceptual study taking requirements gathered from market survey and guidelines like FAR-25. Basically, the design looks like what it will be if all the broad-sets of requirements, i.e. one-size-fits-all, are applied. From here, they will be iteratively refining the design to come up with a more optimal solution that has trade-offs and learning curve. Maybe they will be using proposed partnership to design a seaplane around the Do-228 platform as a first-step. It is possible this would eventually lead to a JV of sorts with US-2/Be-200 but on a more equal partner footing as HAL would be able to bring something to the table as well. However, amphibious plane market is somewhat limited at this point in time. It remains to be seen if the market could be expanded into something that makes the project feasible.

Good to see even public-sector companies, like HAL, initiating and investing on such R&D endeavors and filing Patents on some innovated AI rowing/stabilizing mechanism.
Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8428
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by Indranil »

Vina,

What they are suggesting is a plane with twice the AUW and payload of the Be-200. IT will be in same weight category as the US-2 or the new Chinese amphibian. In terms of capability, currently nothing beats the US-2. Actually IN/CG wanted amphibians and Be-200 won the shootout against the CL-415. However, a strategic decision was made to appease the Japanese, and the poor Russians were shafted. Since then, MoU after MoU have been signed to get the US-2. Nothing has materialized.
Philip
BRF Oldie
Posts: 21538
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: India

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by Philip »

BE--200/220 performed at Aero-India 3-4 air shows ago,fire-bombing the runway. It also comes with an ASW package,v.reasonable price ($35-40M )when compared with the US-2 ($!!)+M).12 DO-228 amphibs and around 6-8 BE-220s MPAs will be a good package for the IN and CG.
chola
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5136
Joined: 16 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: USA

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by chola »

shiv wrote:
Indranil wrote:
HAL's ambitious amphibian design specs:
1. 15 tons payload :eek:
2. Range 4000 kms :eek:
3. Loiter time: 1.5 hours
4. Service ceiling: 9 km
5. Gross weight: 47 Tons
6. Twin turbofan: 133 kN each
7. 100 passengers
8. fuselage length: 32 mtrs
9. T Tail
10. Sponsonless. New method called SAGAR, also aids in STOL.

So this an US-2/AG-600 class aircraft!!
I wish them well. Unless we are bold and grow out of "light this" and "medium that" we are never going to move forward. I need to see more of this

Amen! Many applause from me on this. Looking forward to this project.
chola
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5136
Joined: 16 Dec 2002 12:31
Location: USA

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by chola »

Philip wrote:BE--200/220 performed at Aero-India 3-4 air shows ago,fire-bombing the runway. It also comes with an ASW package,v.reasonable price ($35-40M )when compared with the US-2 ($!!)+M).12 DO-228 amphibs and around 6-8 BE-220s MPAs will be a good package for the IN and CG.
I'm sorry Philipji. I like reading your posts on naval matters but this constant pushing of Ivana's ware is growing thin. I rather wait for an Indian solution.

We are NOT surrounded by great or even competent military powers requiring everything phoren to be bought urgently here and now. What we have now is already an overkill for TSP and the other insects of the neighborhood and whatever rump forces the PRC could spare from the US, Japan and their allies.
JayS
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4567
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by JayS »

Seminar from Tapas (Rustom 2) team from ADE. A lot of interesting information on Tapas and lessons learnt from the project and some tidbits on future improvements.


Some pointers from the video off the top my head (If someone can do better job, please do the honors)

- Most interesting tidbit is Single engine twin boom (V-tail..??) version of Tapas in development. They didn't switched to this config because of delays in the project. But they figured out this one is most optimized config from multidisciplinary POV.
- A lot of scope for optimization in Aero, structural and avionics fields and significant weight reduction.
- One of the key lessons learned that we are unsure about how to certify a MALE UAV using existing FAR-23 requirements. They played safe and used Factor od safety of 1.5 instead of 1.25 which is norm elsewhere in the world - giving higher weight. Similarly they used higher sinking rate for landing making LG overweight. This in turn demanded for higher powered engine and so on.
- A lot of challenges in designing CLAW for UAV considering that there is no man to deal with the contingency in case of failure of data link or some component failure. First flight was delayed by months just for this reason, how to cover data link loss situation during first TO.
- 7-8 optimization initiatives proposed to reduce weight:
- Use of FoS of 1.25 instead of 1.5, reducing weight all over the place, totol target of 280 kg on this account.
- Integrated avionics package in single LRU saving some 80kg due to reduction in mounting structures et al
- 180 kg targeted reduction on aero structure. Wing composited to be moved to pre-preg manufacturing giving some weight loss.
Last edited by JayS on 17 Mar 2017 22:37, edited 1 time in total.
Indranil
Forum Moderator
Posts: 8428
Joined: 02 Apr 2010 01:21

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by Indranil »

Not V tail, but like this.

Image
PratikDas
BRFite
Posts: 1927
Joined: 06 Feb 2009 07:46
Contact:

Re: Indian Military Aviation - 21 Sept 2015

Post by PratikDas »

JayS wrote: - A lot of challenges in designing CLAW for UAV considering that there is no man to deal with the contingency in case of failure of data link or some component failure. First flight was delayed by months just for this reason, how to cover data link loss situation during first TO.
Thank you for the summary, JayS ji.

Incidentally, Wing Commander Rajiv Kothiyal and Air Marshall Rajkumar recalled the exciting first flight of the Tejas in 2001 when the aircraft lost its telemetry link soon after take off. SDREs have learned their lesson.

4 January 2001 - an extract from Air Marshal Rajkumar's book 'The Tejas Story'
I was just about to begin breathing normally when the telemetry auto tracking system failed and all 16 screens started showing erroneous readings. :eek: There was no way of knowing what was happening in the innards of the aircraft! Ravi asked, 'Shall I call him back?' Chase aircraft are provided to enable the test team to cope with such eventualities. I said 'Tell Nambi to move into close formation and check the aircraft for fuel and hydraulic leaks or other signs of abnormal behaviour'. Kothi said that his cockpit readings were fine and the aircraft was flying normally. Nambi reported no sign of any abnormality. I decided to continue with the planned flight profile and told Ravi to inform the pilot of my decision. Kothi agreed with me and continued with the flight. I aged a lot in those few seconds!
Soon it was time to land and Kothi positioned himself on a 10 km long straight-in approach to Runway 09. When he was about three minutes away on approach, the telemetry antenna locked on to the aircraft and data reappeared on the screens. Ravi asked the systems specialists to confirm that all was normal, and to my great relief and everyone else's they reported all systems were GO.
Locked