Nice chinese try to change the focus.guy,wake up, as for tibet, india has neither more ligitmacy nor more power than china now.
your guys have no chance to march into lhasa under your own flag today.
but it can not stop guys like suraj to imagine the glory of marching in lhasa in the thread..NRao wrote:Nice chinese try to change the focus.guy,wake up, as for tibet, india has neither more ligitmacy nor more power than china now.
your guys have no chance to march into lhasa under your own flag today.
It is the other way around - the reason this thread was started. It is teh Chinese that do not have the power to enter India.
Stopping people from talking is a Chinese speciality - which was honed to perfection by Mao's cultural erasure.Liu wrote: but it can not stop guys like suraj to imagine the glory of marching in lhasa in the thread..
The imagination is on teh Chinese side. And, the cat is out of the bag, now that a Chinese leader has spilt the beans on how China can harass India (using other nations in the region).Liu wrote:but it can not stop guys like suraj to imagine the glory of marching in lhasa in the thread..NRao wrote:
Nice chinese try to change the focus.
It is the other way around - the reason this thread was started. It is teh Chinese that do not have the power to enter India.
India actually did not fight for Tibet due to our tryst with nonviolence and sympathy to a sister civilization China coming out of European colonial occupation. Back in the day we were ruled by a pacifist Nehru who did not realize that China is also an expansionist colonial power. His mistakes and foolishness has cost India a lot. Mao on the other hand though a genocidal ruler has expanded China outside its actual limit which is only the Qing province in 1911.Liu wrote:even if you holy emperor toilet gave you the legitmacy,your 'proclaim' of course would not work,because you can not receive the support of powers.tandav wrote:Liu. Please keep India out of this discussion. I want to know how valid was this abdication receipt of Qing. I the emperor of my toilet seat proclaim ownership of all provinces of China since the gas I passed has wafted all over your country via tradewinds and hence was a heavenly tribute and blessing. I hereby declare that me and my ancestors willing to abdicate my benign and just rule of all Chinese land to anyone who can genocide you all out of your land. Does this sound fair to you? Should you get a vote?
in the world, the legitmacy can never work alone,without the suppport of powers.
otherwise,china would have never allowed outer mogolia to break away and took tibet back,while china had same legitmany to claim both( both were the throne dominions of Qing empimre)
after 1911 chinese revolution,outer mogolia and tibet both gained the status of actual self ~domination and tried to break away from china completely.
outer mogolia succeeded ,because its supportor soviets outpowered china.
tibet failed ,because china outpowered its supporter india.
if india had outpowered pakistan completely, the whole kashimir would be controlled by india.
i do think that assam or kashimir is the better place to test your ideality than tibet.tandav wrote:India actually did not fight for Tibet due to our tryst with nonviolence and sympathy to a sister civilization China coming out of European colonial occupation. Back in the day we were ruled by a pacifist Nehru who did not realize that China is also an expansionist colonial power. His mistakes and foolishness has cost India a lot. Mao on the other hand though a genocidal ruler has expanded China outside its actual limit which is only the Qing province in 1911.Liu wrote:
even if you holy emperor toilet gave you the legitmacy,your 'proclaim' of course would not work,because you can not receive the support of powers.
in the world, the legitmacy can never work alone,without the suppport of powers.
otherwise,china would have never allowed outer mogolia to break away and took tibet back,while china had same legitmany to claim both( both were the throne dominions of Qing empimre)
after 1911 chinese revolution,outer mogolia and tibet both gained the status of actual self ~domination and tried to break away from china completely.
outer mogolia succeeded ,because its supportor soviets outpowered china.
tibet failed ,because china outpowered its supporter india.
if india had outpowered pakistan completely, the whole kashimir would be controlled by india.
The best would be that Tibet becomes a Peace park with India and China jointly maintaining it and making it a place where Indian and Chinese can protect its fragile ecosystem and allow the native Tibetians to prosper. We must endeavor to make it a place where Indian Dharmic philosophy and Chinese Taoism is practiced. Tibet has long since been a place where generations of ancient Indians have made their journey in the Sanyasa stage of during end of life to contemplate the universe and collate their thoughts for others to follow.
Amid heightening tensions, the Soviet Union and China began border talks. In spite of the fact that the Soviet Union had granted all of the territory of the Japanese puppet state of Manchukuo to Mao's communists in 1945, decisively assisting the communists in the Chinese Civil War, the Chinese now indirectly demanded territorial concessions on the basis that the 19th-century treaties transferring ownership of the sparsely populated Outer Manchuria, concluded by Qing dynasty China and Tsarist Russia, were "unequal", and amounted to annexation of supposedly rightful Chinese territory. Moscow would not accept this interpretation, but by 1964 the two sides did reach a preliminary agreement on the eastern section of the border, including Zhenbao Island, which would be handed over to China.
Given that India has as legitimate a claim to Tibet as China given that Tibet was once under Indian political rule under the Sikhs I think it is Tibet that should be the place where this peace park should be made. All Chinese including many ancient travelers agree that India has a greater claim on Tibet since it was under the Spiritual dominion of India since time immemorial along with other parts of China which I think we should also bring under the ambit of the Peace park. There are many old manuscripts in India where Kings of China paid tribute to India and accepted its dominion and wisdom.Liu wrote:i am sure that no chinese would be against the plan!tandav wrote:
The best would be that Tibet becomes a Peace park with India and China jointly maintaining it and making it a place where Indian and Chinese can protect its fragile ecosystem and allow the native Tibetians to prosper. We must endeavor to make it a place where Indian Dharmic philosophy and Chinese Taoism is practiced. Tibet has long since been a place where generations of ancient Indians have made their journey in the Sanyasa stage of during end of life to contemplate the universe and collate their thoughts for others to follow.
Fighting for it under our own flag would be stupid and pointless.That's the sort of brainless thing your buddies in Pakistan do. Sounds like the same mindset if rubbing off on you.Liu wrote:guy,wake up, as for tibet, india has neither more ligitmacy nor more power than china now.
your guys have no chance to march into lhasa under your own flag today.
Deans wrote:I'm not sure why we're feeding the troll. The original thread has got derailed.
1.Qing empires had 5 dominions, Which were China proper（18 Han provinces）,Manchuria,Mongolia,Xinjiang and Tibet.manjgu wrote:Tkiran..breakup of pakistan will not unravel china... pakis are at best whores for the chinese...there is some tactical gain but its loss not sufficient to unravel china. Breakup of pakistan means we can focus on chinese alone. As i mentioned once on some thread while listening to a senior IA officer in Tenga ( AP) giving a briefing in his ops room ' chinese have this thing about not losing face and this is one reason why they not doing anything similar to 1962..now they are not at all sure of a victory " .
if we have just one border to take care..that feeling of being not sure about victory will grow..thats the max that can happen with a paki breakup.
Liu, I couldn't have put it better than you.Liu wrote:
1.Qing empires had 5 dominions, Which were China proper（18 Han provinces）,Manchuria,Mongolia,Xinjiang and Tibet.
half of mongolia(Outer Mongolia )broke away in 1923-1946,thus modern China in fact successful suceeds 4.5 dominions from Qing empire.
2. the 4.5 dominions are sinicized seriously and had few chance to break away.
after later Qing Dynasty,Imperial administrations encounraged Han~Chinese to Manchuria,Mongolia,xinjiang and tibet.
now, the percentage of Han/all is 90%+(Manchuria),80%
(inner mongolia),40-45%(xinjiang) and 10%(tibet auto region).
as for xinjiang, Han(40-45%) and Uygurs(40%) are top two populous ethnic, and the rest are 12 ethnic(Hui,Mongols and so on).
and it is quite interesting that almost all the 'rest' (15-20 %of xinjiang population) are pro~Han and against Uygurs's plan of an indendent 'East turkistan'
Manjgu sir, based on what little interaction I had with common Han Chinese, I can tell you the Han are very very agitated people in recent times., Very difficult to keep them under control through propaganda any more, this is the latest development and it's my own opinion, of course.manjgu wrote:Tkiran..CPEC does not exist in any meaninful way as of today..has that unraveled china? your historical perspective is interesting but its conclusions are too far fetched IMHO. I dont think there are enough people to bring down china ..as more and more people see benefits of economic rise of China. CPEC IMHO is peripheral to economic interests of CHina..it has more military value than economic value.
The first fallacy in your argument is to apply the term 'logic'.Lisa wrote:By the above logic most of China is Mongolian?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongol_Empire
That is what pis*** off the Chinese. Despite being on the verge of collapse in 91, India has managed to maintain a million plus army.shiv wrote: This is not to belittle Chinese military strength - but that strength is going to be put to some serious stress if push comes to shove. Bluster and shit like "You are too poor and you cant afford it" are just verbal masturbation
Well there are always yaks. Lots of them. Their dear tarrel than the deepest ocean and deeper than the tallest mountain friends and show them the professional approach to it while avoiding pulmonary edema from the exertion. Maybe Bulbuddin Ghusaomatyar can conduct executive seminar series for Chinese troops stationed in Lhasa.shiv wrote:Holding morale under these circumstances can't be easy. I betcha they can't get much by way of sex and girlfriends there.
But therein lies the run, Sir. A delusional man benefits from his delusions as long as the outside world does not intrude.nam wrote:That is what pis*** off the Chinese. Despite being on the verge of collapse in 91, India has managed to maintain a million plus army.shiv wrote: This is not to belittle Chinese military strength - but that strength is going to be put to some serious stress if push comes to shove. Bluster and shit like "You are too poor and you cant afford it" are just verbal masturbation
The reality is in Asia there is only two armies which are the roadblock for PLA domination in Asia. Russian & Indian army. What irritates the Chinese that we are still able to maintain such a large force despite being poor & in constant fight with Pakis, bank rolled by them.
If India become a real threat, they would have to maintain a very large force in Tibet in horrible conditions to defend against IA. This will drain huge resources in a place where there is very less chance of wining a fight.
The Chinese are trying to convince themselves that "India is poor, wont be able to fight...", as that they don't have to defend against it!
Self delusion really.
To refine that statement a little bit - with a short recap. There are 4 main roads leading down to eastern India from Chinese highways in Tibet. Three lead to Arunachal Pradesh, and one to Sikkimchola wrote: The PRC does not maintain much force in Tibet or along the Indian border as Shiv pointed out. It is too expensive to do so.
Absolutely true. So it is to India' advantage to make the Chinese defend Tibet inside Tibet. That is the whole idea.Liu wrote: it also means less chinese troops on tibet highland can defend effectively there.
morever,good infrastructure in tibet means that enough PLA troops can move into tibet in short time when necessory.
india deployed much more troops along sino~india border than china,but so many indians are stll worried about the imagined 'invasion from china',while few chinese are worried about 'invasion from india'.shiv wrote:Absolutely true. So it is to India' advantage to make the Chinese defend Tibet inside Tibet. That is the whole idea.Liu wrote: it also means less chinese troops on tibet highland can defend effectively there.
morever,good infrastructure in tibet means that enough PLA troops can move into tibet in short time when necessory.
That is a ridiculous conclusion. Major Indian population centers are within 100-200km of border with Tibet, not so the case on the Tibetan plateau side. So it's obvious that there will be more people stationed on the Indian side, because amongst other things this is where they live.Liu wrote:india deployed much more troops along sino~india border than china,but so many indians are stll worried about the imagined 'invasion from china',while few chinese are worried about 'invasion from india'.shiv wrote: Absolutely true. So it is to India' advantage to make the Chinese defend Tibet inside Tibet. That is the whole idea.
the case just proves that facing china, india is offensive tactically while defensive strategically
China says navy rescues ship from pirates, omits Indian role
By CHRISTOPHER BODEEN, ASSOCIATED PRESS BEIJING — Apr 10, 2017, 8:25 AM ET
The Associated Press
FILE - In this July 3, 2012 file photo released by China's Xinhua News Agency, the 12th Chinese naval flotilla, consisting of frigate "Yiyang", left, frigate "Changzhou" center, and comprehensive supply ship "Qiandaohu", prepare to set sail for the escort mission in the Gulf of Aden and Somali waters to protect commercial ships from pirate attacks at a port in Zhoushan, east China's Zhejiang Province. China's navy said Monday, April 10, 2017, its forces rescued a freighter from attack by pirates in the Gulf of Aden over the weekend. Missing from the report was any mention of the participation of the Indian navy, which says it dispatched four ships and a helicopter to provide cover for the action. (Hu Sheyou/Xinhua via AP)more
China's navy says its forces rescued a freighter from attack by pirates in the Gulf of Aden over the weekend. Missing from the report was any mention of the participation of the Indian navy, which says it dispatched four ships and a helicopter to provide cover for the action.
The omission was likely no accident. Deep distrust persists between the two nuclear-armed Asian giants, and in recent days, China has angrily denounced New Delhi over a visit by exiled Tibetan spiritual leader the Dalai Lama to an Indian border area that China claims as its own territory.
Asked about that lack of mention of India's part in the operation, Chinese foreign ministry spokeswoman Hua Chunying referred questions to the defense ministry, where no spokesman was immediately available for comment.
"We believe the aforementioned operation demonstrated the effectiveness of China's naval forces in the field of fighting against pirates, as well as China's image as a responsible major country in safeguarding regional peace and stability," Hua told reporters at a daily news briefing on Monday.
"We are always positive toward international counter-piracy operations," she added.
No casualties or damage were reported in the incident, which unfolded between Saturday night and early Sunday morning.
The Chinese navy's statement said a distress signal was received late Saturday from the captain of the Tuvalu-flagged OS35 saying it was under attack by an unknown number of pirates aboard a single boat. Steaming to the area, the missile frigate Yulin then circled the ship while its helicopter hovered above.
The statement said 16 members of the Chinese special forces were lowered onto the ship by helicopter at dawn Sunday and released the 19 crew members from the strong room where they had taken shelter, while also searching the ship to ensure there were no further threats. The statement made no mention of any arrests or other contact with the pirates.
India's account differed slightly but did mention China's participation.
A statement from the Indian defense ministry said the Indian navy ships Mumbai, Tarkash, Trishul and Aditya had been sailing toward the Mediterranean Sea when they responded to the distress call and "rapidly closed the merchant vessel" by early Sunday." After an Indian navy helicopter flew over on Sunday morning, crew members emerged and "ascertained that the pirates had fled the ship at night."
"Subsequently, in a show of international maritime cooperation against piracy, a boarding from the nearby Chinese navy ship went on board the merchant ship, while the Indian naval helicopter provided air cover for the operation," the statement said.
India and China fought a brief but bloody border war in 1962 and each makes large claims on territory controlled by the other. That includes India's remote northeastern state of Arunachal Pradesh, to which the Dalai Lama traveled last week amid angry denunciations from Beijing. Hua, the foreign ministry spokeswoman, said last week that the visit "severely harms China's interests and the China-India relationship," and that China did not consider it an Indian internal affair.
The Dalai Lama and his followers have been living in exile in northern India since they fled Tibet after a failed 1959 uprising against Chinese rule. China accuses Tibetan Buddhism's highest figure of using his religious status as cover for a campaign to win independence for Tibet, which was occupied by Chinese Communist forces in the early 1950s.
In general, China has been eager to highlight growing cooperation between its military and those of other nations in training and other operations, and the Yulin is part of the 25th anti-piracy squadron sent by China since it joined multinational patrols off the coast of Somalia in 2008.
That involvement offers both a sign of China's growing engagement in the global commons and valuable practice for its navy in operating far from home ports. The mission has also resulted in China building its first military base in a foreign country in the African Horn nation of Djibouti, mainly as a supply and recreation facility for its anti-piracy patrols and peacekeeping operations in South Sudan and elsewhere in Africa.
The navy says it has escorted a total of 6,337 Chinese and foreign vessels during its anti-piracy operations and intervened dozens of times in cases where ships were either attacked or pursued by pirates.
They aren't 'deployed there' . They are literally composed of hundreds of thousands of people FROM the areas near the border. There are 7 Gorkha regiments. Bihar Regiment, Punjab Regiment, Assam Regiment... and no, none of these were created in response to 1962. Almost all of them date back to the time of the Qianlong Emperor, or even the Kangxi Emperor, of the Qing Dynasty.Liu wrote:india deployed much more troops along sino~india border than china,but so many indians are stll worried about the imagined 'invasion from china',while few chinese are worried about 'invasion from india'.shiv wrote: Absolutely true. So it is to India' advantage to make the Chinese defend Tibet inside Tibet. That is the whole idea.
the case just proves that facing china, india is offensive tactically while defensive strategically