Indian Space Program: News & Discussion - Sept 2016

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 07 May 2017 13:40

India should launch a large space telescope rather than landing on Venus.

It has far more science value given the limited funds available to ISRO. Its more worth while than a mission to Venus or building an expensive space station.

Not many countries have the capacity to put large objects in orbit and assemble them together.

Recent discoveries of a bunch of planets around a nearby star are pretty exciting. And there's surely more to be discovered out there.

What's the Significance of Trappist-1?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a_U-r1sjohc

US has the world famous Hubble (which is approaching its end of life) and the soon to be newly launched James Webb space telescope in 2018.

Foreign astronomers are given some small amount of time on US space telescopes.

But largely its reserved for US astronomers and usage time is in high demand.

India should plan for its own space telescope in the not too distant future.

It should be the best of its kind otherwise there's no point launching it into space.

prasannasimha · Post by **prasannasimha** » 07 May 2017 14:15

^India has astroasat already. What you are asking require a large payload faring and that will take time . GSLV MkII and its iterations will allow these things

rgosain · Post by **rgosain** » 07 May 2017 14:25

Astrosat is likely to become the key source for researching high energy x-rays, uv, which may be clues to dark matter/energy, from the milky way and beyond as both the Chandra telescope and the Japanese satellites are reaching the end of their life. Isro should offer a lottery and expand the slots for foreign researchers - just think of the impact factor if astrosat provides the clues to dark energy etc

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 07 May 2017 18:14

ISRO Release

The second orbit raising operation of South Asia Satellite has been successfully carried out by LAM Engine firing for 3529.7 sec from 09.30 hr IST on May 07, 2017

Very terse statements from ISRO for this launch.

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 08 May 2017 08:09

rgosain wrote:Astrosat is likely to become the key source for researching high energy x-rays, uv, which may be clues to dark matter/energy, from the milky way and beyond as both the Chandra telescope and the Japanese satellites are reaching the end of their life. Isro should offer a lottery and expand the slots for foreign researchers - just think of the impact factor if astrosat provides the clues to dark energy etc

Can Astrosat detect any aspect of the planets circling Trappist-I with its visible, IR or any other detectors?

Is it even able to focus on distant targets.

prasannasimha · Post by **prasannasimha** » 08 May 2017 09:32

.^ Depends on what your scientific goals are as well as launch capabilities. Astrosat has its own unique capabilities which us well recognized. Not all astronomical research is about searching for exoplanets. Getting a large mirrored space telescope is not as easy as you wish. We have to progress on stages.

prasannasimha · Post by **prasannasimha** » 08 May 2017 09:32

.^ Depends on what your scientific goals are as well as launch capabilities. Astrosat has its own unique capabilities which is well recognized. Not all astronomical research is about searching for exoplanets.
Think of it -Astrosat is the only satellite that is able to simultaneously image on multiple wavelengths for evaluation of short period events like gamma ray bursts. No other orbiting satellite telescope has that capability.
Getting a large mirrored space telescope is not as easy as you wish. We have to progress on stages.

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 08 May 2017 11:05

SSridhar wrote:ISRO Release
The second orbit raising operation of South Asia Satellite has been successfully carried out by LAM Engine firing for 3529.7 sec from 09.30 hr IST on May 07, 2017
Very terse statements from ISRO for this launch.

The subsequent statements have been similar too. Third orbit raising was also successfully done, but no info on what the exact orbits are now (perigee/apogee info).
ISRO Release - Reflectors have been deployed too now

Deployment of East and West reflectors have been successfully completed at 08:15 hr IST and 09:30 hr IST, respectively on May 08, 2017

ISRO release - Third orbit raising

May 08, 2017
The third orbit raising operation of South Asia Satellite has been successfully carried out by LAM Engine firing for 445.8 sec from 06:51:52 hr IST on May 08, 2017

disha · Post by **disha** » 08 May 2017 12:00

Varoon Shekhar wrote: Very good reasons! Not meaning to nitpick at all, but you mean GSLV Mark 3 is in the launch complex being assembled, not on the actual launch pad, or on one of the 2 launch pads, right? Perhaps the launch assembly buiding?

Varoon'ji you may be right., GSLV-Mk III might be within the VAB being integrated on the launch platform which will be moved to 2nd launch Pad.

Either way it is on some launch "pad" :

prasannasimha · Post by **prasannasimha** » 08 May 2017 13:03

It takes currently 20-25 days for refurbishing the launchpad postvlaunch for the next launch (clearing toxic residual propellant etc) according to ISRO. That is why a third launch pad will be necessary for a human space flight especially to the moon as our plan is for a double rendezvous earth and lunar. Earth -one with humans to dock with the separately launched service module and then that unit will be shot into translunar injection.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 08 May 2017 13:22

size difference is huge. all this in around 35 years

ldev · Post by **ldev** » 08 May 2017 18:43

For those not on a first name basis with different kinds of propellants and the energy required for different orbits, this is a great primer. Written by a flight engineer/astronaut who flew on a Shuttle mission.

The Tyranny of the Rocket Equation

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 08 May 2017 21:53

GSLV Mk3 was in the Solid Stage Assembly building (SSAB), and may now have been moved to the main VAB
The GSLV Mk2 that was launched was in the main VAB
There is now a second VAB (SVAB) almost fully built, next to the 1st VAB
There is a PSLV getting ready in the older (1st) launch pad

Disha ji
The chinese are pretty good in solid engines too, or can be expected to be good. They have a fair range of ICBM/IRBMs based on solid engine tech

They used to sorely lag behind ISRO in satellite tech, but they have spent through their nose and solved that problem

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 09 May 2017 00:49

Indigenisation of Space Materials (ISM) Data Sheet

disha · Post by **disha** » 09 May 2017 01:35

Neela'ji., thanks for posting the above link. ^^ Two items from above must be adapted by Indian Industry. One is the 100 Ah (150 Wh/Kg density) Li-ion cell (and the 5 Ah as well) and another is the ULEG Ceramic glass.

Neela · Post by **Neela** » 09 May 2017 10:47

disha wrote:Neela'ji., thanks for posting the above link. ^^ Two items from above must be adapted by Indian Industry. One is the 100 Ah (150 Wh/Kg density) Li-ion cell (and the 5 Ah as well) and another is the ULEG Ceramic glass.

Dishaji Govt has already asked ISRO to share 100Ah battery tech with industry.

disha · Post by **disha** » 10 May 2017 00:02

Neela'ji., I meant that the CII has an excellent opportunity to proactively engage with ISRO and commercialize the 150 w/Kg Li Battery.

----

Gagan'ji., laconically I would say - "Does it fly yet"? It is one thing to ground test it and another thing to stage it to deliver a working payload. That is still a decade away.

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 11 May 2017 06:31

customers sure look happy

-----

ISRO's US Based customers Cheering for its Record breaking Success & Future Possibilities

KL Dubey · Post by **KL Dubey** » 11 May 2017 11:06

BTW, does anyone know what is the commercial status of the Indian satellite-based positioning system (IRNSS/NAVIC) ? Are there now phones/navigation devices/apps that can use this system instead of GPS ? Or is this really just a "military use" thing ?

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 12 May 2017 04:22

Neshant wrote:customers sure look happy

-----

ISRO's US Based customers Cheering for its Record breaking Success & Future Possibilities

1. Shame on Doordarshan for a 20th century - 1980s level transmission and coverage
2. Shame on Antrix Corp and ISRO for not spending on marketing and having professional coverage of satellite launches
3. Shame on ISRO for not putting HD quality cameras inside the launch vehicle and allowing high bandwidth live transmissions be available in real time for the transmission

Please market India better, this is the 21st century !

Bheeshma · Post by **Bheeshma** » 12 May 2017 05:58

Someone on nasaspaceflight forum claiming June 5th as date for GSAT-19E launch on GSLV-MkIII D-1.

RonyKJ · Post by **RonyKJ** » 12 May 2017 06:17

I agree with you Jagan. As an outward looking nation seeking to become a global power and engage the world, we need to look inward and project a more polished, marketable image of ourselves and our capabilities. Every single detail, from the camera work to the countdown counts towards creating this image. We should also be marketing these launches as tourist events. Create good facilities in Sullurpeta, even an airport and good hotels. I would love to go and watch a live launch from Sriharikota as I have from Cape Canaveral.

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 12 May 2017 06:28

Gagan wrote: 1. Shame on Doordarshan for a 20th century - 1980s level transmission and coverage
2. Shame on Antrix Corp and ISRO for not spending on marketing and having professional coverage of satellite launches
3. Shame on ISRO for not putting HD quality cameras inside the launch vehicle and allowing high bandwidth live transmissions be available in real time for the transmission

Please market India better, this is the 21st century !

The only good news is an Ambassador car with 1950s design did not roll by in the video.

The other thought is what if the PSLV blew up on take off.

The press would have a field day reporting that launch failure all over the world.... with the added "bonus" of high def video.

SriKumar · Post by **SriKumar** » 12 May 2017 06:51

Neshant wrote:
Gagan wrote: 1. Shame on Doordarshan for a 20th century - 1980s level transmission and coverage
2. Shame on Antrix Corp and ISRO for not spending on marketing and having professional coverage of satellite launches
3. Shame on ISRO for not putting HD quality cameras inside the launch vehicle and allowing high bandwidth live transmissions be available in real time for the transmission

Please market India better, this is the 21st century !
The only good news is an Ambassador car with 1950s design did not roll by in the video.

The other thought is what if the PSLV blew up on take off.

This (rocket failures) has happened several times in the past, with other rockets. Even so ISRO has not shied away from live telecasts of launches, including experimental ones, several of which failed live on TV like the first indigenous cryo engine, and like the GSLV with the larger fairing and a Russian cryo engine which broke in front of the cameras. For most/all launches, ISRO has quite openly showed the velocity, altitude and range profiles of rocket launches, meaning, even if it did not blow up spectacularly in front of the cameras, but rather it gradually and steadily went off course well out of sight, one can still see it in the plots, realtime.

THis particular launch may have had other sensitivities associated with it given the dignitaries visiting it, but it high time that ISRO paid attention to releasing good quality footage. I for one, would want an audio broadcast of the mission control call-outs without the darn Doordarshan commentary overwhelming it.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 12 May 2017 07:14

Guys
There is no defending DD, Antrix or ISRO on this account
ISRO & Antrix do an excellent job and make us proud with their successes and their failures

But this is marketing, and high quality of launch transmission and quality editing is a low hanging fruit that is not very expensive either, considering what the space budget is

Would IPL have been possible if Doordarshan was still covering cricket matches in india hain? I remember these are the blokes who turned up for a test match in Madras with a camera with a damaged/burnt out lens and everyone had to endure the rainbow colored, out of focus black & white image from that one camera while the other cameras were in colour
These are the same wizards of cameramanship who used to zoom the camera out maximally and turn to the off side, when the batsman hit a six over the midwicket.
Now they are doing this with our satellite launches - zooming into the smoke when the PSLV launched, and someone who has arthritis does a dragging motion on the camera every few seconds as the rocket ascends. The editing persons, no doubt used to sycophancy and showing the VIPs will switch over to the scientists for a few seconds or a vip or some wimmens - preferably some gori woman if they can.

These idiots miss, booster seperation, stage seperations which they can capture even with their unenhanced cameras

Enough is enough already !

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 12 May 2017 07:20

These same idiots mess up the R day parade too
They are happy to show Pranab da munching his paan and taking something out of his mouth, and totally miss the Arjun as it goes by.
While one commentator will yell "vinhangam drishya" every few seconds, the other will call the brahmos regiment, the LCA tableu

Doordarshan's commentry folks grew up listening to cricket matches on the radio, or attending Kavi Sammelans all their adult life. So they feel the urge to do a ball by ball commentary of the satellite launch, except they don't know wtf they are yapping about. So what to do in this situation, but to improvise and do some poetry in shuddh hindi.

"Raakit ki Garjana" is the Sat Launch version of "Vihangam Drishya", that they use in the R day parade

Why can't commentary be minimalistic and quiet? The ISRO team member, who does the english commentary does an excellent job, but they have to have a comedian who has to say raakit ki garjana every few seconds.
Why should I not be able to see strapon rocket seperation, stage seperation, and see them tumbling down into the bay of bengal in a split screen, while the other half of the screen shows the next stage powering through?
Tomorrow, I want to hear Indian astronauts talking to ground control, during rocket launch.
Let the launch team callouts filter through to our ears for godssake na.
Enough already !!!

putnanja · Post by **putnanja** » 12 May 2017 07:47

Is the date for GSLV-MkIII firmed up? As far as I remember, they just said end of May. Wondering if the date is set now.

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 12 May 2017 08:48

Is GSAT - 9 placed in final orbit? Is the satellite healthy?

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 12 May 2017 09:01

This launch was treated differently, because Shree Modi wanted to use this for highlighting other smaller nations. OBOR et al are only as strong as its weakest links, which are the smaller states. And India certainly knows how to build a coalition of equals (in theory). So this seems not about confidentiality, unlike the SAR satellites, but more about tighter PR management from PMO.

If anyone thinks India will "lose markets" because of this particular post-launch PR, that cannot be helped. ISRO has done the right thing for India and plays by its own rules, set by the successive PMs of India.

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 12 May 2017 13:37

putnanja wrote:Is the date for GSLV-MkIII firmed up? As far as I remember, they just said end of May. Wondering if the date is set now.

The launch is on Monday June 5th. Let's keep our fingers crossed!

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 12 May 2017 13:58

Karur student’s satellite model to soar high - C.Jaisankar, The Hindu

Heartening to see passion for space spreading to school children in a small village too and very successfully at that. There is a picture in the article which I have not re-produced here. But, please see that to understand what has been achieved. Read this.

For eighteen-year-old Md. Rifath Shaarook, who is awaiting his Plus Two results, a small room in his house situated in a narrow lane of Pallapatti in Karur district, is his space research station. He is not perturbed about his Plus Two results, which will be out on Friday. But his actions and thoughts centre around the “Femto” experimental satellite designed by him with a group of five other students.

The satellite that weighs just 64 grams was among 80 models selected among 86,000 designs submitted by young contestants belonging to 57 countries in the “Cubes in Space” contest organised by Idoodle Learning in association with NASA. The satellite is the only model selected from India to be launched into the sub-orbital space by SR 4 rocket.

The satellite is made of reinforced carbon fibre with 3-D printing technology. It took more than two-years for Shaarook and his team to design the less weight satellite using the 3-D printing technology at a cost of just Rs. 1 lakh.

“I am eagerly awaiting the launch of our satellite. It will be a big day for not only me but also for the aspiring space scientists,” says a beaming Shaarook, who lost his father Mohamed Farook when he was studying in Class-V at a government primary school in Pallapatti.

The satellite with sensors would carry out its mission from the moment of its launch.

It would be in sub-orbital spaceflight for 12 minutes and would then land back in the ocean.

It would capture and record temperature, atmosphere, radiation level, rotation buckling and magnetosphere, said Shaarook, who is a “lead scientist” in Chennai-based Space Kidz India, which is encouraging aspiring space students.

Vinay Bharadwaj, Tanishq Dwevdi, Yagnasai, Abdul Kashif and Gobi Nath were part of the team that designed the satellite.

Srimathy Kesan, Chief Executive Officer, Space Kidz India, Chennai, said that hard work, commitment and innovation of the team led by Rifath Shaarook had given a splendid recognition to young aspiring scientists. It would motivate other students too.

Ever since Shaarook revealed the selection of his satellite for the launch, his house in Pallapatti continues to get steady visitors. Moreover, Crescent Matriculation Higher Secondary School in Pallapatti, where he is now studying has also got congratulatory messages.

“Shaarook lost his father at a young age. However, the zeal that he inherited from his father has made him a young scientist,” says Shakila Banu, mother of Shaarook.

arun · Post by **arun** » 13 May 2017 15:14

putnanja wrote:Is the date for GSLV-MkIII firmed up? As far as I remember, they just said end of May. Wondering if the date is set now.

Telangana Today, quoting ISRO Chairman A. S. Kiran Kumar, is reporting that the GSLV Mark III aka LVM3 will be launched on June 5th:

“All the systems are getting ready at the launch site at Sriharikota. We are looking at June 5 launch of this historic launcher. The whole process of assembling various stages and integrating the satellite into the heat shield are going on as planned,” Chairman, ISRO, A. S. Kiran Kumar said.

From here:

GSLV Mark III to be launched on June 5

gakakkad · Post by **gakakkad** » 13 May 2017 18:30

What's the payload in mk3 .. the above article says that India is going get some gsats launched from Arianne in June ... I could not find the payload that ll be onboard mk3...

SSSalvi · Post by **SSSalvi** » 13 May 2017 19:25

^
Mk3 : GSAT 19E from Second Launch Pad on 5th June.

GSAT 17 has left for Kourou 2 days back ( http://www.isac.gov.in/flagoff-GSAT-17.jsp ) for launch atop Ariane 5 on June 28 along with Inmarsat-S

GSAT-11 - planned for Ariane 5 launch in December.

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 13 May 2017 21:49

What is a little confusing is the weight of the satellite. News reports, including from the Hindu, are saying that the Mark 3 will launch a 4 tonne satellite on June 5th. I don't think that is correct. The GSAT-19E has all along been stated to weigh 3.2 tonnes. What the reports probably mean is 4 tonnes is the capacity of the vehicle. Poor editing again! Would love to be wrong!

Bheeshma · Post by **Bheeshma** » 13 May 2017 21:54

GSAT-11 I understand. Its nearly 6 tonne but why can't GSLV-III launch GSAT-17? At 3.5 tonne MK-III should be able to launch it easily. Is it because of transponder shortage and we have to launch them fast.

disha · Post by **disha** » 13 May 2017 23:01

^^ launch payload is progressively uprated.

In the development stage., there are multiple sensors for various data collection and monitoring. The launch profile is further refined through various launches and propellant loading is optimized taking tolerances into account. Burn times adjusted appropriately. In a nutshell it is a continuous improvement process.

Also payload launch dates are decided in advance and bookings done accordingly. The reliability of the launch vehicle is very very very important as well.

Varoon Shekhar · Post by **Varoon Shekhar** » 15 May 2017 23:21

It looks like PSLV-38 is going to be delayed a bit until early June, from May 25th. But there's probably a very good reason -:) and that is they are adding satellites to be launched.Originally, it was going to be 37 satellites, now it appears to be over 50! So they may have had to wait to receive and integrate the additional satellites.Supposition here, but reasonable.

prasannasimha · Post by **prasannasimha** » 16 May 2017 00:04

^It was clearly mentioned that the PSLV launch date would depend on the customers sending their payloads for the launch.

Bheeshma · Post by **Bheeshma** » 16 May 2017 00:10

Excellent !!! PSLV with its regular multi dozen launches should become a global standard. The focus should be on the MK-III launch on June 5th.