CT & COIN Operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

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Khalsa
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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Khalsa »

Arggghhhhh this is horrible (the torture etc).

Even in Punjab in the militancy days. It was know in the village that my father was in the army and his brother in police.
A line was never crossed.

My father never went home with a weapon.
WHY ? It is the effing land of republic of India.
You don't go home pretending to be on leave while you are there with a weapon sleeping with one eye open.

Instead outside each village ambushes were laid for militants/ terrorists by Police, BSF, CRPF and Army.
And they were hunted down mercilessly.

Army and Punjab Police were more active and more importantly they masters of night time.

In Day time there was visible presence
At night time there was invisible presence.

We owned our land and there we chose to dominate it.

All I can say .... a line was crossed. .... A line was crossed.

It was almost a lynching.

We need a change of strategy. It necessarily does not need to happen in Kashmir.
The Pigistan Islam Repubic of Porkie Pig must feel the pain somewhere else.
DrRatnadip
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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by DrRatnadip »

Khalsa wrote:.

We owned our land and there we chose to dominate it.

All I can say .... a line was crossed. .... A line was crossed.

It was almost a lynching.

We need a change of strategy. It necessarily does not need to happen in Kashmir.
The Pigistan Islam Repubic of Porkie Pig must feel the pain somewhere else.
+108 sir..Unfortunately our tolerence limit is increasing with every attack..Ultras behead our soldiers, attend funerals of terrorists, loot banks,forcibly shut down schools, pelt stones on our security forces with impunity and not enough visible responce from our side..
We must undertake targeted killings of high ranking PA officers.. Killing of cannon foder PA jawans just dont affect them..
I used to think that there is some grand plan to punish/ balkanize pakis with this govt. Now we dont have any strategic or even tactical plan to deter pakis..Increasing shelling on Paki posts is just not enough revenge for repeated gruesome killings of our soldiers..
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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by brvarsh »

India couldn't be this stupid to allow all such Incidents to happen - beheadings by an enemy sitting across the border set aside but terrorists with AK47s appearing in some pig's funeral or bank robbery et al. I somehow believe it is allowed to happen to expose and watch their trail and some how in next 3 to 6 months there will be sudden elimination of such elements. Narendra Modi with Doval at helms couldn't be this quite and ignorant just to sit do nothing.
DrRatnadip
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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by DrRatnadip »

Hope you are right sir..
Khalsa
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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Khalsa »

I believe they have played, its our move now.
arshyam
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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by arshyam »

^^ It looks like the pakis want to provoke us into a war. Why? What is their end-goal? CPEC security? What is the state of their preparedness? How is ours? How much is China acting in the background? Is there a Chinese play to get us to give up PoK and maybe sign up to OBOR as a vassal?

Maybe finding an answer to such questions will lead us to how Modi/Doval are thinking.
Karthik S
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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Karthik S »

^^ If we are provoked and cross line of control, I don't think Modi and Doval will give back any territories this time. That will seal the fate of CPEC.
Akshay Kapoor
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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Akshay Kapoor »

Khalsa wrote:Arggghhhhh this is horrible (the torture etc).

Even in Punjab in the militancy days. It was know in the village that my father was in the army and his brother in police.
A line was never crossed.

My father never went home with a weapon.
WHY ? It is the effing land of republic of India.
You don't go home pretending to be on leave while you are there with a weapon sleeping with one eye open.

Instead outside each village ambushes were laid for militants/ terrorists by Police, BSF, CRPF and Army.
And they were hunted down mercilessly.

Army and Punjab Police were more active and more importantly they masters of night time.

In Day time there was visible presence
At night time there was invisible presence.

We owned our land and there we chose to dominate it.

All I can say .... a line was crossed. .... A line was crossed.

It was almost a lynching.

We need a change of strategy. It necessarily does not need to happen in Kashmir.
The Pigistan Islam Repubic of Porkie Pig must feel the pain somewhere else.
But the pain must be linked to the line crossed. We have to decimate them. There is no other solution.
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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by nam »

Akshay Kapoor wrote: But the pain must be linked to the line crossed. We have to decimate them. There is no other solution.
Nothing of that sort will happen. The bunch who killed the Lt. were pawns. The ringleaders are visible to us on LoC. All it takes is artillery and air attacks on LoC without even the need to capture areas.

But our rulers re obsessed in making peace with countries who make every effort to harm us. Countries which want to be our friends like Afghanistan are looked down and ignored.The Afghans have asking us for weapons for ages, but we are more concerned about "this is an effort by PA is to corner Nawaz" nonsense...

Year after year, we sacrifice our people in the game between PA and Paki politicians.

PA attacks us because they dont like us, they attacks because they don't like Paki politicans!

We are the self appointed thekedar of Paki nation'f future.
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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Akshay Kapoor »

Sadly you are right
Rudradev
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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Rudradev »

How is what happened to Lt Ummer any better than what happened to Saurav Kalia? It's even worse actually. Ummer was not even on patrol but attending a family wedding.

People give gaalis to Vajpayee govt (some well deserved no doubt) but as PM he did what had to be done during Kargil. Stared down the whole f-ing world that wanted to make an Iraq-like example out of India for our nuclear tests the previous year, even as the Clinton administration in the US cosied up to the Taliban and prepared to crown Beijing as the governor of Asia in the new American post-cold-war world order, even while Russia (our only ally) staggered blindly about under the misrule of the Washington-appointed alcoholic boor, Yeltsin. In that situation Vajpayee ensured that Lt. Kalia did not die in vain; that not an inch of Kargil or Drass remained in Paki hands.

What is our Hindu Hruday Samrat doing? India today is so much more powerful than 18 years ago. But this can happen to an officer of our armed forces even today. :(
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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Karan M »

"What is our Hindu Hruday Samrat doing? India today is so much more powerful than 18 years ago. "

If that were really the case IAFs premier strike fighter would not have its serviceability in the 40%s. The UPA scamsters left us in a parlous state. Modi has spent every waking hour to get India back to a functioning state. Its a thankless task and of course, the TSP guys will pile on. Give him and the IA time. I am sure he has given full freedom to the IA to extract its revenge and the IA will strike as and when it can get maximum advantage.
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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Rahul M »

as far as military modernisation goes, the 90's is considered a lost decade. then we had about 5-6 years of decent growth followed by another lost decade.
last three years have seen middling growth, the momentum for fast paced growth needs sustained development over a period of time and that is not possible in 3 years.
summing up, over the last 25 years preceeding this govt's term we had the total of about 5-6 good years. the 2 decades of inactivity have effectively gutted our preparedness.
you cannot reverse that within 3 years.
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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by DrRatnadip »

http://m.timesofindia.com/india/jk-two- ... 669771.cms

NEW DELHI: Two terrorists were killed in a fierce gunbattle broke out on Sunday evening between security forces and Lashkar-e-Taiba terrorists in north Kashmir's Waripora village of Handwara in Kupwara district.

No stone pelting this time..
Manish_P
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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Manish_P »

Ramana Sir

W.r.t a previous post of yours, wherein it was decided to call such operations as Anti Terrorist operations, can you please add the term 'Anti Terrorist' to the title of this thread as well.

Thank you.
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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by fanne »

The only decision taken fast in the upa govt regarding defense was purchase of painting worth 35 Carore by wife of Shri Anthony
Karan M
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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Karan M »

Rahul M wrote:as far as military modernisation goes, the 90's is considered a lost decade. then we had about 5-6 years of decent growth followed by another lost decade.
last three years have seen middling growth, the momentum for fast paced growth needs sustained development over a period of time and that is not possible in 3 years.
summing up, over the last 25 years preceeding this govt's term we had the total of about 5-6 good years. the 2 decades of inactivity have effectively gutted our preparedness.
you cannot reverse that within 3 years.
unfortunate but true. the UPA gang has lost India a decade of development. scamsters and crooks all of them.

modi is methodical. once he came into power, he realized the true state of the economy and GOI and went on a crazy overdrive to bring in FDI hence all the trips, drum up interest, ease business and bottlenecks. this to bring the economy back. in the process, he has to wage a war on fake notes (IMHO, this was the key need for demonetization), manage the optics & all this in a ceaseless war against his govt by media jerks and the vindictive opposition which regarded him as an easy to manage chap. plus the economy has to keep bearing subsidies because that's what the indian public wants. so to fix that GOI is fixing implementation even if they can't rollback sops. all this on the eco front.

on the military side, and the services were literally gutted in terms of serviceability and war fighting stocks, morale apart. that too has been steadily addressed to face, a short two front war. the long languishing drdo programs which were to be killed with disinterest eg the LCA got a shot in the arm with committed orders for a full 126 unit production run. Arjun's fake manufactured crisis was dispelled with spares ordered. Pinaka, Akash orders dusted off & follow on variants cleared.

its easy to lose focus and lash out on modi but at the end of the day, he is one man & he is facing incredible odds dealing with a system designed to extract from the public & a hostile neighbour and multiple security threats. IMHO, he is tackling one issue at a time. as the economy is picking up, its no coincidence the purse strings for defence will also be gradually eased.

in the meantime we will not see huge overt ops but again, determined and methodical clampdown on both J&K and maoists. again, it won't be a perfect approach but it will occur. for this incident again, the tactically brilliant TSP Army will lose a bunch of soldiers. yes, it does not amount to long term deterrence. but for that, we need many more steps to be taken.
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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Rudradev »

I know, I know. All true. The most critical battle of all was won in May 2014. Now at least everything is on the right track, even if it's still an uphill journey.

I suppose even I find it hard to keep the faith sonetimes :(
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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by JE Menon »

Super post KaranM
Khalsa
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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Khalsa »

DrRatnadip wrote:http://m.timesofindia.com/india/jk-two- ... 669771.cms

NEW DELHI: Two terrorists were killed in a fierce gunbattle broke out on Sunday evening between security forces and Lashkar-e-Taiba terrorists in north Kashmir's Waripora village of Handwara in Kupwara district.

No stone pelting this time..

Nice .... lets take back control of the night.
Lets be goddamn predator at night. Nothing like being the most effective man on the ground.

You win that.. You start chipping away at the numbers.... it becomes highly ineffective for them to motivate their side.
They will go back to sending the druggies and crazies again which alienates the local against the cause.

I like the appointment of the current chief. He for some reason potrays and shows extreme confidence.
Damn a million would follow him into the fire without even batting an eye lid.
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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Viv S »

saje wrote:So unless we treat them all as a whole block there is always the possibility that while we are having Taj Mahal tea with the good Kashmiri, the bad Kashmiri will come from behind and drop a grenade into our chaddi.
So Lt. Ummer's family should be lumped into the same block as his murderers. Wish I could say I'm surprised or shocked but I guess this is the new normal.
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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Karthik S »

Viv S wrote:
saje wrote:So unless we treat them all as a whole block there is always the possibility that while we are having Taj Mahal tea with the good Kashmiri, the bad Kashmiri will come from behind and drop a grenade into our chaddi.
So Lt. Ummer's family should be lumped into the same block as his murderers. Wish I could say I'm surprised or shocked but I guess this is the new normal.
There are numerous examples of neighbors, students and fellow soldiers in an unit massacring or abetting killing of non-KMs since 1947. It's tragic but true.
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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Gaur »

saje wrote:So unless we treat them all as a whole block there is always the possibility that while we are having Taj Mahal tea with the good Kashmiri, the bad Kashmiri will come from behind and drop a grenade into our chaddi.
Karthik S wrote:
Viv S wrote: So Lt. Ummer's family should be lumped into the same block as his murderers. Wish I could say I'm surprised or shocked but I guess this is the new normal.
There are numerous examples of neighbors, students and fellow soldiers in an unit massacring or abetting killing of non-KMs since 1947. It's tragic but true.
JAKLI, among the most highly decorated regiments in IA, is majorly composed of Kashmiri Muslims. Army has seen much worse in early 90s. And yet, IA runs Operation Sadbhawana to help Kashmiri Youth. It runs medical camps, cricket tournaments, schools and what not in the face of constant armed resistance. This is because IA at least doesn't club all Kashmir's together.
Last edited by Gaur on 15 May 2017 10:47, edited 2 times in total.
Karthik S
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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Karthik S »

I know, that's the way it should be too. But history is mixed regarding this issue and not very black and white. It's good to be circumspect and cautious.
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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Viv S »

Karthik S wrote:There are numerous examples of neighbors, students and fellow soldiers in an unit massacring or abetting killing of non-KMs since 1947. It's tragic but true.
And this justifies treating the parents & siblings of a fallen Indian army officer as enemy aliens? So what exactly is the message here - you may have volunteered to wear the olives, lead your men into battle from the front and protect our nation with your life... but if you happen to born in the 'wrong' religion & region, we'll consider you a traitor-in-disguise to be kept on a short leash.
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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Karthik S »

Viv S wrote:
Karthik S wrote:There are numerous examples of neighbors, students and fellow soldiers in an unit massacring or abetting killing of non-KMs since 1947. It's tragic but true.
And this justifies treating the parents & siblings of a fallen Indian army officer as enemy aliens? So what exactly is the message here - you may have volunteered to wear the olives, lead your men into battle from the front and protect our nation with your life... but if you happen to born in the 'wrong' religion & region, we'll consider you a traitor-in-disguise to be kept on a short leash.
No sir, I am taking a middle ground to what you and Saje sir mentioned. And I am not talking about any particular individuals.
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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by rohitvats »

Karthik S wrote:<SNIP>fellow soldiers in an unit massacring or abetting killing of non-KMs since 1947. It's tragic but true.
You've any example of fellow soldiers being massacred by Kashmiri Muslims soldiers ever since J&K became part of India? And examples of Dogra rulers Muslims troops mutiny and desertion to Pakistan don't count. Those are known.
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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Karthik S »

^ No sir, I was referring to what you mentioned.
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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Viv S »

Karthik S wrote:No sir, I am taking a middle ground to what you and Saje sir mentioned. And I am not talking about any particular individuals.
That is the problem because this is about individuals - about whether we as a nation & as a civilization accord primacy to their choices, decisions & actions or judge them by the identity they were born into and had no say in. One cannot fence off a faceless amorphous group and at the same time honour the legacy of martyrs like Lt. Ummer.
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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by ks_sachin »

THE ARMED FORCES FAMILY.....


As recd from another whatsapp gp.....received by 65 commission group...


"
This is a narration by course mate, Col AAAAA, posted in the valley..

He & 2 more of my course mates, Brig XXX (doing NDC) & ex-Wg Cdr YYY (now with IndiGo) did this for Lt Umar Fayaz.

"Guys, I must share my experience on this topic.
Late Lt Umar Fayaz became a martyr in our Area Of Resp. It was the saddest thing to have ever happened. We were all in the Ops room monitoring and directing the ops in the aftermath of this dastardly act. Our GOC spoke to some seniors and asked them to fast track the issuing of the insurance cheque so that it could be handed over to his parents on Saturday. He was assured that the cheque would be ready but then the problem was how would it reach here. We all worked out various permutations & combinations but were not able to arrive at a foolproof method of getting it here. After trying everything I remembered our TEAM COURSEMATE and sent a WA msg to YYYY at about 11pm requesting if it would be possible for one of the Indigo crew could carry it today. I promptly got a confirmation that it would be done. He outlined how it would be received, carried and delivered at Srinagar. Yesterday he called up at least 5-6 times to check up on the progress. An Indigo colleague of his was nominated as a contact person and I was told by him that she would organise the whole thing.
The process appeared to be getting derailed when AGIF started asking for various mandatory documents to issue the cheque. That's when TEAM COURSEMATE again came into play. I called up XXX since Late Lt Fayaz was from his regt and unit. XXX got onto the job and confirmed to me around 3 pm yesterday that the cheque was ready for collection, the documentation could follow later. The cheque was collected and I then called the Indigo contact person. She imdtly swung into action and gave me tge details of the Captain of the first Indigo flt to Srinagar today morning. I spoke to the pilot at night and the cheque was handed over to him at the airport today morning and it reached Srinagar at 9.58 am. All along I was updated by the Indigo personnel about the progress of the flt. I was left speechless when I got a call from a mgt pilot of Indigo, also an ex NDA about 7-8 yrs senior to us not to confirm whether the cheque has reached or not but to inform me that it had been handed over to our offr at the airport by the Offg Stn Manager of Indigo.
The cheque reached our HQ around 1pm today and shall be handed over to Late Lt Umar Fayaz's parents tomorrow.
Thank you, YYY & XXX, for really going out of your way to ensure that the cheque was issued yesterday and reaches us today. That for you, gentlemen, is TEAM COURSEMATE! "

Proud to be their coursemate!
"
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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Karthik S »

Viv S wrote:
Karthik S wrote:No sir, I am taking a middle ground to what you and Saje sir mentioned. And I am not talking about any particular individuals.
That is the problem because this is about individuals - about whether we as a nation & as a civilization accord primacy to their choices, decisions & actions or judge them by the identity they were born into and had no say in. One cannot fence off a faceless amorphous group and at the same time honour the legacy of martyrs like Lt. Ummer.
That's precisely the reason why I am not talking about individuals. We can't have polar opposite views on dealing with the situation in kashmir as everyone is neither a wani or Lt Ummer.
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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Viv S »

Karthik S wrote:That's precisely the reason why I am not talking about individuals. We can't have polar opposite views on dealing with the situation in kashmir as everyone is neither a wani or Lt Ummer.
Which is there should be no acceptance of the idea of treating everyone as a 'single block', there should be no middle ground on that. Treat the Wanis of the world as the Wanis and the Ummers as the Ummers.

But treating Lt. Ummer's family with anything short of the respect that is due to the family of a fallen Indian soldier ought to be unacceptable to any nationalist.
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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Karthik S »

Viv S wrote:But treating Lt. Ummer's family with anything short of the respect that is due to the family of a fallen Indian soldier ought to be unacceptable to any nationalist.
Absolutely.
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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by DrRatnadip »

One silly question.. Why there are no movie theaters in Kashmir? Local population in Kashmir is blindly dragged behind extremist ideology.. Can widespread availability of cinema theaters help general Kashmiri public to assimilate better with rest of India?..
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Post by Karthik S »

Who'll build invest crores of rupees on theaters there.
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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by arshyam »

^^ I heard many cinema theatres were burned down and the rest ordered shut down as they are "un-islamic". My friend's parents visited the valley a few years ago and told that there is nothing to do after dark. Certainly not a tourist friendly place anymore. No wonder they are willing to put their lives on the line by throwing stones for a measly sum. Who will give them business or employ any of them?
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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by DrRatnadip »

Karthik S wrote:Who'll build invest crores of rupees on theaters there.
I dont know sir.. May be after abolishing art 370 it will be profitable..
I was just wondering if success of bahubali can make many of aam junta forget about our brave soldiers beheading, worsening situation on LOC..
Can this powerful medium have any positive impact on kashmiri population? Can it give enough fodder to empty minds to divert them from anti national activities..? As we all know social media/Paki radio is widely used for propogating venoum against India.. kashmiri youth will preffer watching a cool movie than listening to ghisa pita paki rona dhona.. apologies if m thinking too much in this..
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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by Aditya_V »

Boss why do think Hurtirat and militants have made sure cinemas are in the valley for the last 25 years?
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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by DrRatnadip »

Hmm..So i guess there are so many practical difficulties using bollywood and theater art in our favour..
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Re: CT and COIN operations in India: News, Images and Discussion

Post by brvarsh »

Bollywood is already playing its role in a second line of diplomacy.Like China's cheap manufacturing industry, if a nation relies on it so heavily it would never in a true sense challenge Chinese interests otherwise. How successful is India in using Bollywood to do the same is not very tangible but understanding the human behavior there is no reason to believe it will not work.
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