China Military Watch - Sept' 2016

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 21 May 2017 10:51

Killing C.I.A. Informants, China Crippled U.S. Spying Operations

chola · Post by **chola** » 21 May 2017 15:08

Like "Top Gun" lol

The shit that chinis and amreekis do to each other is pretty hilarious.

http://www.cnn.com/2017/05/18/politics/ ... intercept/

a US official told CNN the Chinese jets came within 150 feet of the US plane, with one of the Su-30s flying inverted, or upside down, directly above the American plane.

chola · Post by **chola** » 21 May 2017 15:17

Sometimes, I do wish we have the same sort of superpower back and forth with the PRC. The cloak and dagger stuff and the fighter intercepts. Obviously having your spies killed by chini intelligence is dark matter but still it would be cool to have these Tom Clancy-esque interactions. Great movie material. But there seems to be a complete lack of chini-hindi confrontations with military hardware outside the internet.

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 22 May 2017 04:54

A sign of things to come..?

______

"We Will Go To War; We Will Fight You": China's Xi Threatens Duterte If Philippines Drills For Oil
May 20, 2017 6:40 PM

The Philippines' outspoken president Rodrigo Duterte got a glimpse of the true snarling, belligerent Chinese dragon hiding behind the cheerful, globalist Panda facade earlier this week, when in response to a claim that his country was prepared to drill for oil in a disputed part of the South China Sea, China's president Xi told him matter-of-factly that in that case he should prepare for war.

In a meeting on Monday between the two presidents, Duterte asserted his nation's sovereignty over disputed South China Sea territory citing last year's ruling by the Permanent Court of Arbitration. "We intend to drill oil there, if it's yours, well, that's your view, but my view is, I can drill the oil, if there is some inside the bowels of the earth because it is ours," Duterte said in a speech, recalling his conversation with Xi.

That prompted a surprisingly abrupt retort from Xi:

“Well, if you force this, we’ll be forced to tell you the truth. We will go to war. We will fight you,” Duterte on Friday quoted Xi as saying.

The unexpectedly direct response, coming just days after China hoped to set the world at easy with its new globalist ambitions after it officially launched the Silk Road regional infrastructure project last week, caught China watchers by surprise. It stunned Duterted as well. The Philippine president has long expressed his admiration for Xi and said he would raise the arbitration ruling with him eventually, but needed first to strengthen relations between the two countries, which the Philippines is hoping will yield billions of dollars in Chinese loans and infrastructure investments.

Duterte recalled the same story about his discussion with Xi on oil exploration in a recorded television show aired moments after the speech. He said Xi told him "do not touch it" and added that Xi had promised that the arbitration ruling would be discussed in future, but not now. It most likely won't be.

As a reminder, the Hague award from July 2016 clarified Philippine sovereign rights in its 200-mile Exclusive Economic Zone to access offshore oil and gas fields, including the Reed Bank, 85 nautical miles off its coast. It also invalidated China's nine-dash line claim on its maps denoting sovereignty over most of the South China Sea. China has repeatedly said it would not comply with the Court's ruling, setting the stage for potential conflicts in the future between China and its neighbors.

Eager not to lose face domestically, Duterte said China did not want to bring up the arbitral ruling at a time when other claimant countries, like Vietnam, might also decide to file cases against it at the arbitration tribunal. It was not the first time the firebrand leader has publicly discussed the content of private meetings with other world leaders.

According to Bloomberg, Duterte's remarks come just after China and the 10-member Association of Southeast Asian Nations agreed on a draft framework for a code of conduct governing actions in the region. The countries exchanged views on "the importance of appropriately handling concerns, incidents and disputes involving the South China Sea", the Chinese Foreign Ministry said in a statement that gave few details.

Judging by Duterte's comments, China's resolution protocol is simple: it's either our way - which means you stay out of it completely - or war.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-05-2 ... s-drills-o

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 22 May 2017 06:59

^^^ Yeah Baby

One Belt to whip you all , One Road to Enslave you all, One China to rule you all !!!

Beware of the Chinese bearing gifts

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 22 May 2017 08:15

^^Where's the retweet button?

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 22 May 2017 08:17

Singha wrote:
The Navy has tracked seven Chinese submarines in the IOR till now, with the first being a Shang-class nuclear attack submarine (SSN) from December 2013 to February 2014. "Two Chinese submarines, a nuclear one alternating with a diesel-electric one, are coming for three months each to the IOR every year. They usually come through the Malacca Strait, where they have to surface due to shallow depth, and exit through the Sunda Strait," he added.
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Now here's an idea.

India should do a "South China Sea" on the Straits of Malacca (on account of the Andaman & Nicobar islands being right in the middle of it) and declare the entire straits to be the sovereign territory of India.

No foreign ships or subs allowed to pass through unless they get permission from India.

Countries that border the straits however can move their ships/subs freely.

It would be a move mostly directed at you know who.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 24 May 2017 00:09

Export version of Z-19 conducts maiden flight

Looks weird..the Dauphin heritage is obvious, but the large fenestron tail makes it look very ungainly.

chola · Post by **chola** » 24 May 2017 00:27

Kartik wrote:Export version of Z-19 conducts maiden flight

Looks weird..the Dauphin heritage is obvious, but the large fenestron tail makes it look very ungainly.

It is nothing more than a Dauphin variant built in China. Wiki says AS365 "production patent" was bought in October of 1980 and since then the PRC had modified the base French design, Z-9, into a dozen different versions.

Z-19E is the just the latest of many.

Anything to learn here? This is what a properly negotiated ToT should look like, right? You buy the patent. Its yours.

Liu · Post by **Liu** » 24 May 2017 15:32

https://m.cjdby.net/forum.php?mod=image ... pe=fixnone

news from cd.

今(23)日，陸媒刊登大連造船廠在已抽乾的船塢裡出現的新的航母分段，據稱是開造「另外」一艘002型航母，若消息屬實，中國大陸將在6年內達成擁有4艘兩型雙航母戰鬥群的目的。

some new 'parts' of new AC appeared in the shipyard in Dalian.
china might start buliding a fourth AC in Dalian now.

vina · Post by **vina** » 24 May 2017 16:05

PERFECT. Someone in India is thinking straight.
India Mulls Tsunami Warning System in South China Sea

Absolutely right thing to do. String a network of Tsunami monitoring devices (like we did in the Indian Ocean) from the line connecting Hue/Da Nang in Vietnam to Luzon in Philippines to Okinawa Islands, to Japan. Have to give advance warning on Tsunamis to all the S.E Asian countries (Vietnam, Phillipines, Malaysia, Indonesia and also Japan).

It of course has NO military applications (like detecting and tracking Chinese submarines out of Hainan) , it is purely peaceful in nature and is in international waters. Beijing should applaud the Indian generosity and move to build Tsunami warning systems.

hnair · Post by **hnair** » 24 May 2017 16:43

anupmisra · Post by **anupmisra** » 24 May 2017 17:02

Woman arrested on charges of smuggling U.S. space technology to China
Was this posted earlier?

California woman was arrested on Tuesday on federal charges of conspiring to procure and illegally export sensitive space communications technology to her native China

Si Chen, also known as Cathy Chen, 32, could face a prison term of up to 150 years if convicted of all charges contained in the 14-count indictment returned against her by a federal grand jury on April 27, the department said

Chen purchased and smuggled sensitive materials to China without obtaining required export licenses, including components commonly used in military communications "jammers."

She also is accused of smuggling devices typically used in space communications applications, and falsifying the paperwork used in shipping those items to list them as worth $500, rather than their true value of more than $100,000.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKBN18J2ZH

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 24 May 2017 18:33

Every Chinaman and woman should be considered a spy/agent for the PRC.There was an old report about a Chinaman who was in a German co for just two weeks .When he left,he took the entire tech. secrets of the co. with him!

And the best example is that of Bill Clinton,who had over 30+ official "meetings" with a Chinese woman in the White House,who just happened to be the daughter of a general said to be the head of Chinese intelligence. I wonder what secrets she stole from Bill,official or personal?!

India should simply keep Chinese out of the country and ban them from all border states and the NEast entirely.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 24 May 2017 18:44

Chinese paper cheers NYT report that U.S. spies were killed

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 24 May 2017 18:49

Philip wrote:Every Chinaman and woman should be considered a spy/agent for the PRC.

This is indeed a very important point. When the British/French/Dutch/Portuguese were colonizing, every sailor and every trader soaked up intelligence - whether political, military or economic. They used the political intelligence to undermine stability and leveraged traitors.

When Central Asians were invading India millennia ago, their traders collected intel that raiding warlords exploited.

Free trade and people to people contact isn't as innocuous as it sounds.

Avarachan · Post by **Avarachan** » 01 Jun 2017 07:17

tsarkar wrote:
Philip wrote:Every Chinaman and woman should be considered a spy/agent for the PRC.
This is indeed a very important point. When the British/French/Dutch/Portuguese were colonizing, every sailor and every trader soaked up intelligence - whether political, military or economic. They used the political intelligence to undermine stability and leveraged traitors.

When Central Asians were invading India millennia ago, their traders collected intel that raiding warlords exploited.

Free trade and people to people contact isn't as innocuous as it sounds.

This is very true. People around the world have a tendency to boast (due to vanity) and gossip (due to lack of discipline). However, Indians seem especially prone to these vices. This needs to change as India becomes more technologically advanced (and thus targeted more intensely).

Indians can learn from Russians ... Russians (both soldiers and civilians) are known for being secretive. And it's worked for them ... The way President Putin has rebuilt the Russian military-industrial complex, despite intense Western surveillance/espionage, is remarkable.

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 01 Jun 2017 07:44

There is a fairly large Chinese diaspora scattered across SE asia and India's northeast, specially in Kolkata, Bihar, who went into exile to escape Mao dada's long march and then the Japanese.

Just saying...

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 01 Jun 2017 08:06

why exactly do you think cheen govt sponsors 1000s of teaching staff in their univs to get a MS/Phd from american univs?

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 01 Jun 2017 10:47

Transfer of technology 3-millimeter radar seeker from Ukraine to China

http://bmpd.livejournal.com/2640156.html

The radar seeker millimetric radio waves is designed to detect, capture, tracking of targets of type "tank" and formation of "air-surface" aircraft missile guidance signals to the final portion of the flight. It is used in the air force, anti-tank missile systems. Manufacturer: GP "Lvivsky Radio Engineering Research Institute"

Specifications
frequency range millimetric waves
Modes active passive
Maximum range of detection and capture targets to support, km - 3
Accuracy Ranging, m ± 3
angular velocity target tracking, deg / s 0, 1-10
measurement error of the angular velocity,%, no more than 5
tracking angle range, deg:
azimuth ± 27
elevation ± 15
Diameter, mm - 170
Length, mm - 400
Weight kg - 8

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 01 Jun 2017 19:26

China develops 'ultra-fast' anti-missile interceptor, says report

http://www.janes.com/article/71045/chin ... ays-report

The China Aerospace Science and Industry Corporation (CASIC) claims to have developed a new type of "ultra-fast" anti-missile interceptor capable of engaging an incoming projectile flying "10 times faster than a bullet", the state-owned China Daily newspaper reported on 27 May.

CASIC was quoted as saying that its Second Academy in Beijing, which is believed to be the country's major developer of air defence systems, has made a "new generation aerospace defence missile" that incorporates "top space technologies" and can intercept targets at an altitude of "tens of kilometres".

The company disclosed the information in an article it released earlier this month about the contributions made by control system researchers from the Zhang Yiqun Studio: a group named after a prominent scientist at the academy, said the paper.

The new interceptor was reportedly so difficult to design that "only a handful of nations in the world have been able to develop it", reported China Daily, adding that the weapon's designers "overcame numerous problems during research and development, including an explosion of one of the weapon's prototypes during a flight test".

DavidD · Post by **DavidD** » 03 Jun 2017 00:39

Some recent developments:

1) Strong rumors are flying around about the construction of a semi-submersible arsenal ship. Here's a good blog about it by possibly the best-informed open-source Western PLA analyst Henri K (google translate works very well).
http://www.eastpendulum.com/la-chine-fa ... ubmersible

2) The 054B frigate will be revealed soon. The biggest upgrade compared to the 054A will be IEPS, which will be the first time IEPS is used on a Chinese warship.

3) During a TV program introducing the award winners for various Chinese Key Innovators Award, one of the winners revealed his project, a shaftless rim-driven propulsion system which he says is being used in the next-generation nuclear submarine (likely referring to the 095 Tang class) and is a technology that currently leads the US. The upcoming USN Columbia class SSBNs will incorporate a similar system, but it's scheduled to start construction in 2021 while the first of the Tang class is rumored to be already under construction.

4) Another recent news about Chinese SSNs is the reveal that the 093A improved Shang class employs a passive-cooling system, which is rather significant since water pumps for cooling is one of the biggest noise-generators in a sub and passive-cooling is a technology that not even the improved LA class is equipped with. Combined with an all-electric rim-driven propulsion system, the next generation Chinese nuclear subs should be among the quietest subs in the world.

5) China has been busy testing ballistic missiles recently. 8 tests were conducted in May alone (and another 8 in April), including the mysterious DF-26B test, believed to be the first operational testing of China's longest-range ASBM. Again here are some blogs by Mr. Henri K.
http://www.eastpendulum.com/df-26b-une- ... ee-chinois
http://www.eastpendulum.com/essai-balis ... -du-29-mai

6) PLA reform is taking an intriguing turn. The 18 corps size units are being reduced to 13, and they'll be renumbered from 71-83 (there were originally 70 corps sized units at PRC's founding). This is an interesting development in and of itself, as it breaks with global military tradition by renumbering all the very storied units (e.g. 38th, 39th, and 12th, and 42nd Group Armies which fought exemplarily in Korea). However, even more interesting is the news that the new GAs will eventually also include elements of Naval and Air Force units to form combined arms units.
http://eng.chinamil.com.cn/view/2017-04 ... 575815.htm

7) Significant advances have been made regarding hypersonic vehicles. China recently held a conference on such vehicles, revealing, including other things, a successful test in 2015 of a scramjet vehicle at speeds of Mach 3.5 - 7 and altitudes of 15 - 30km.
http://aviationweek.com/technology/chin ... sonic-plan

And finally, the first 055 destroyer is almost completed should be ready for launch later this year.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 03 Jun 2017 07:12

What I find interesting is that when the US designs and produces futuristic weapons - Indians see no threat, but when the Chinese do that Indian media fill up with articles about the Chinese threat.

chola · Post by **chola** » 03 Jun 2017 09:02

shiv wrote:What I find interesting is that when the US designs and produces futuristic weapons - Indians see no threat, but when the Chinese do that Indian media fill up with articles about the Chinese threat.

The same two reasons why it is okay for the US 5th, 6th and 7th Fleets to dominate the IOR but far more noise in the DDM when a noisy chini SSN makes a trip or two: 1) chinis have mystical unexplained powers after 1962 so we dhoti shiver even when we have overwhelming local material and force advantages and 2) the sahib thought process, goras are expected and even welcomed to dominate.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 04 Jun 2017 13:11

During the Kruschev era,the Soviets had developed a unique missile boat which could submerge. Now China is suppsedly developing a semi-submersible/submersible arsenal ship/sub, laden with missiles.Aeons ago I presented a case for such warships,quoting the successful Soviet concept.
Ck the link for more pics.

http://www.popsci.com/futuristic-chines ... king-waves

China is developing a warship of naval theorists' dreams
An arsenal ship that can be submerged in water.
By Jeffrey Lin and P.W. Singer June 1, 2017

China arsenal submarine ship
ARSENAL SUBMARINE
With distinctive twin conning towers, this arsenal ship can hide under the waves or move on the surface at higher speeds.
baoxiuyuan
The Chinese navy is taking arsenal ships in a new direction—as giant submersibles. Post-Cold War naval theorists have long dreamed of recreating the old battleships' power through massive "arsenal ships," or warships carrying hundreds of guided missiles that could fire at land and sea targets. Now it looks like China wants to make that dream a reality.
Dong Wen Cai Wavepiercer Warship
IN BETWEEN THE TIDES AND THE SEABED
Professor Dong Wen Cai, the late Chinese hydrodynamics expert, shows a sketch of a submersible major combatant, with a flat hull and mid-hull steering fins.
CNTV

Stories circulating on Chinese websites—including the Wuhan city government site—mention that Chinese institutions are conducting studies on gigantic submersible arsenal ships.
What's the big deal about an underwater arsenal vessel? Well submerging all or even most of a large warship would reduce its radar and visual signature, as well as protect it against most missile threats.
China Waveskimmer Arsenal Ship
CAD WAVESKIMMER

This computer-generated line drawing of the Chinese waveskimmer shows hull-mounted fins that allow for maneuverability and underwater (and semi-submerged) operation. It appears to also be capable of hydroplaning.
NSFC
There are two concepts in circulation: one is a high-speed warship with much of its hull submerged but otherwise has a functional superstructure with defense weapons and radar, the other is almost completely submerged arsenal ship with two conning towers. The scale of the designs are significant; either ship would displace roughly about 20,000 tons at full load.
China Submersible Warship Arsenal Ship

SUBMERSIBLE CRUISER
The submersible warship has four stages: submerged, partial exposure of the superstructure, raising the hull to the 'waterline' and as a low draft, and operating as a high-speed hydroplane.
NSFC
Reports claim there has been substantial design work and concept proofing for this underwater arsenal ship. Even on his deathbed, leading naval engineer Professor Dong Wei Cai continued to work on a key aspect of the arsenal ship design: the high-speed wave hydroplane.
For stealth operations, the arsenal ship would have most of its hull inherently submerged, with only the bridge and a few other parts of the ship above the waterline, reducing the radar cross section. But when traveling with a high-speed naval taskforce, the arsenal ship will sacrifice stealth to use its flat hull bottom to hydroplane at high speeds, cutting across the waves like a speedboat or amphibious armored vehicle.
China arsenal submarine ship

CARRIER GROUP
An arsenal ship can rely on the carrier's airwing and surface warship escorts to protect it against airborne threats, while providing the carrier group hundreds of extra missile launchers holding anything from air-defense rockets to land-attack cruise missiles.
baoxiuyuan
The second design is more conventional, it is essentially a giant, conventionally propelled submarine with two conning towers stuffed with snorkels, periscopes, and communications antennae. Given its need to keep up with high-speed surface ships and its lack of high-speed endurance underwater, this arsenal ship design would operate similarly to WWII submarines; the majority of its voyage will take place on the surface, and will submerge only during combat and under attack.
China Submersible Demonstrator

DEMONSTRATOR
While a 4-meter-long, 1-ton scale model of the high-speed submersible has been undergoing tests and is even shown on state television, no complete picture of the demonstrator has been shown, with only partial photos being released to the public.

Chinese research institutes have been testing sub-models of both arsenal ship configurations since 2011, including open-water tests for the hydroplane arsenal ship and laboratory tests for the arsenal submarine. Unverified rumors on the Chinese internet claim that a full-scale, proof-of-concept is under construction at Bohai Shipbuilding Heavy Industrial Corporation, to be launched after 2020.
You may also be interested in:
China Is Building the World's Largest Nuclear Submarine Facility
China's New Ballistic Missile Submarine Could Change its Prospects in Nuclear War

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 05 Jun 2017 13:38

http://www.popsci.com/j-31-stealth-figh ... -prototype

China's J-31 stealth fighter gets an improved prototype—and a potential future on a carrier
More government funding may be on the way.
By Jeffrey Lin and P.W. Singer May 1, 2017

China FC-31 J-31 Fighter Stealth
J-31 V2
The J-31 fighter second prototype has been increasing test flights in April 2017, with rumors of more government funding and a third prototype on the way.
The improved J-31 stealth fighter prototype has been ramping up its test flights in April 2017, adding fuel to speculation that it will become the stealth fighter for Chinese aircraft carriers.
China J-31 stealth fighter
A NEW BIRD
The new J-31 prototype (the one in lighter gray paint) is expected to be larger, have a nose-mounted infrared search and tracking sensor, and stealthy features like clipped horizontal and vertical stabilizers.

Back in October 2012, China became the second country in the world (after the United States) to have multiple fifth-generation stealth programs, as the first FC-31/J-31 stealth fighter (FC-31 is the export designation) made its maiden flight. Built by the Shenyang Aircraft Corporation (SAC), the twin-engine J-31 is roughly the same size as the American F-35, with a range of 775 miles, a maximum takeoff weight of 28 tons, and a Mach 1.8 top speed. If it enters Chinese service, it would replace single-engine J-10s as a medium fighter, and possibly become a stealth fighter on China's aircraft carriers.
China FC-31 J-31 Fighter Stealth
LONG WAIT
The first prototype/tech demonstrator first flew in 2012. The second prototype's upgrades—stealthier wings, IRST sensor and a single piece canopy—first shown at the Zhuhai 2014 Airshow, but the aircraft had to wait until December 2016 to fly.

Initially, there have been substantial doubts about the viability of the J-31 program. The first prototype did not fly with advanced avionics like an infrared search and track (IRST) sensor and stealth features like swept vertical stabilizers, suggesting its role to be a proof of concept for testing SAC's stealth technology, and hopefully attract buyers. More tellingly, while SAC pitched the J-31 as an export fifth generation fighter at domestic and international air shows, neither the PLAAF nor foreign buyers showed firm interest in the project, leaving its viability uncertain.
China FC-31 J-31 Fighter Stealth
NO SMOKE
Unlike the first J031, "31001", which flew with smoky RD-93/WS-13 engines, the second prototype is flying with cleaner burning, likely more fuel-efficient engines.

This uncertainty held until the second, improved prototype first flew on December 26, 2016. The new J-31 prototype is three tons heavier and about 20 inches longer than the original technology demonstrator; it also had key improvements like an IRST sensor, stealthier wings, cleaner burning engines, and an improved radar. In addition to avionics and datalinks that enable sensor fusion, SAC officials state that the production J-31s (which could appear soon as 2019) could have supercruise capability, giving them a leg up over current F-35 fighters. Its WS-13 engines would be replaced by domestic WS-13E or WS-19 turbofan engines to give it that advantage in speed. The combination of the J-31's high speed performance, and suggested payload of 6 PL-12 or 4 PL-21 long range air to air missiles suggests that the J-31 has been optimized as an air superiority fighter, though it can be fitted with a wide array of Chinese precision guided munitions like the LS smart bombs.
J-31 Fighter Stealth Carrier China
GYRFALCON
The Shenyang "Gyrfalcon" J-31 stealth fighter, China's second stealth fighter program, is speculated to have a possible carrier-capable configuration, with folding wings and reinforced landing gear.

There's been talk on Chinese Internet messaging boards suggesting that SAC has recently won government funding for a J-31 carrier version, which could be larger than the initial prototypes (the carrier capable F-35C is also larger than the basic F-35A variant), in order to increase range, payload, and structural strength for the stress of carrier flight operations. SAC also plans to unveil a model of the third prototype of the J-31 at the 2017 Paris Air Show, possibly aimed at Middle Eastern buyers unable to purchase the politically sensitive F-35.

You may also be interested in:
The Next Generation of China's Carrier Borne Fighter, the Flying Shark, Takes to the Skies
China Stays Ahead in the Asian Stealth Race
China's J-31 Stealth Fighter: Then and Now
What New Chinese Weapons Will We See at this Year's Zhuhai Airshow?
New Chinese Fifth Generation Fighter Jet J-31 Performs More Tests

If the Chinese do field a stealth naval fighter,then the IN would be under great pressure to match it with either a naval variant of the FGFA or a F-35 if available.But this is likely only between 2025-2030 at the earliest.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 06 Jun 2017 17:02

China successfully tests solid-fuel variable ramjet engine

http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/art ... 014098.cms

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 07 Jun 2017 04:21

Given their adoption of various Russian Liquid fueled Ramjet concepts into their weapons, and their hypersonic program in general one would have thought that this would have happened already given that its been decades since SF DR motor testing first occurred in the West.

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 07 Jun 2017 11:48

More on China's semi-submersible warship concepts.Link has more pics/diagrams.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... arine.html

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 07 Jun 2017 12:41

Actually it was the french DCNS who came out with the semi sub concept with SMX-25 in 2010 and it seems china got interested

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 Jun 2017 13:57

i am not convinced what value it brings to table.
a regular ship will be faster and less prone to compromises needed for submersion.
a regular sub will obviously be stealthier, smaller and deadlier. if you need a high loadout, regular subs like yasen and virginia already carry a considerable number while ohio ssgn carries some 150.
if the protection of AAW ships is needed for this one, then it might be a regular ship as well..as the emitting AAW ship will be seen by all.

chola · Post by **chola** » 07 Jun 2017 14:29

Singha wrote:i am not convinced what value it brings to table.
a regular ship will be faster and less prone to compromises needed for submersion.
a regular sub will obviously be stealthier, smaller and deadlier. if you need a high loadout, regular subs like yasen and virginia already carry a considerable number while ohio ssgn carries some 150.
if the protection of AAW ships is needed for this one, then it might be a regular ship as well..as the emitting AAW ship will be seen by all.

It's not like the PLAN has a lack of regular surface ships and subs. I think this is USN specific.

I think it brings value to a defensive navy along its coast. In blue water, it is not a workable solution against a Navy like the USN or the IN and you'd be better off with full on surface combatant for targeting range or an actual sub to avoid detection.

But in green waters, under the protection of land-based air cover and queued by the surveillance net from land- and sea-based assets, it can act as an mobile platform to move hundreds of missiles within range of an approaching CBG. Complete overkill for bullying the Philippines or Vietnam, they have tons of regular navy and coast guard vessels for that.

But against the USN or Japanese fleet in the Taiwan Strait, ECS or SCS they could come in handy.
Low profile shortens the range of detection and reaction time for an invading force before hundreds of missiles are suddenly launched at you. Imagine losing track of one behind a screen of regular surface ships and subs.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 07 Jun 2017 14:52

Singha is correct it has a limited value but one must reserve judgement until more is known about the plans and what their concept of operations are likely to be. From an arsenal vessel perspective, in an all out VLS shoot out, the first vessels to empty out their cells will be submarines on account of them being able to get closer to their target due to higher survivability. A semi submerged vessel would be less survivable but could potentially be made many times larger within the same budget. In a network vs network contest you aren't going to be assuming a lot of multi-mission use without organic command and control and ability to gather target level data. Just a VLS carrier without sensors will largely be a mule and won't cover your mission set ranging from AAW, through LRPS.

Prasad · Post by **Prasad** » 07 Jun 2017 15:54

A semi autonomous sub with sensors and vls cells would be pretty useful though. Get to a designated area without trouble and then lay in wait until orders for further action perhaps.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 07 Jun 2017 16:08

good point Chola. this civil war type monitor thing could be a pita in the green water hiding among reefs and lagoons. its conceptually a mobile underwater barge with a heavy missile loadout like the Delta-IV with the huge boxy hump.

the semi autonomous concept is in trials by US already albeit in a ASW role to hunt these green water monitors!
http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/darpas ... 1695566032

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 07 Jun 2017 16:18

For anti CBG operations particularly with he USN in mind you would have to go sub-surface for high survivability since that is the mode of protection afforded to these vessels against surface threats. It is the US and Japanese submarines that they need to worry about even though the USN has now begun investing in air and surface launched long ranged anti surface capability - the primary offensive/defensive capability as per their doctrine is still sub-surface.

This to me looks more offensive against land based targets.

@Singha, the ACTUV is not appropriate reference point, the USN too has a program to convert current vessels into unmanned weapon and sensor carriers. The most latest one is a SCO led effort under their program titled 'Ghost Fleet'.

https://insidedefense.com/daily-news/pe ... 8-projects

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 07 Jun 2017 16:37

So the Chinese are using BRF phraseology! "Unsinkable aircraft carriers",a phrase I've used for "INS India" foir decades. Copycats,but this is characteristic of them.

However,what is the GOI going to do? Some of these installations/bases will definitely be in POK.Unless we punish the Chinese diplomatically and economically,we would've have lost the war even before it started. So too must the Pakis be punished with similar measures,apartf rom covert methods to prevent their easy setting-up.

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2017/ ... gon-report

China to set up military bases in Pakistan – Pentagon report
Beijing’s global military ambitions are growing, the annual report says, as the nation seeks to counter American primacy
Soldiers of China’s People’s Liberation Army march
China has become increasingly assertive militarily in recent year Photograph: Damir Sagolj/Reuters

Benjamin Haas in Hong Kong
@haasbenjamin
Wednesday 7 June 2017 06.29 BST Last modified on Wednesday 7 June 2017 07.19 BST
China is set to expand its military capabilities across the globe, with new overseas bases in countries like Pakistan as the world’s largest army seeks an increased role in defending China’s interest abroad, a report by the Pentagon has said.

China’s spent $180bn on the People’s Liberation Army last year, according to the annual report from the US defence department, but officials admitted that figure could not account for all spending due to “poor accounting transparency”. That estimate is significantly higher than China’s official defense budget of about $140bn.

Warning that Beijing's military bases in South China Sea are ready for use

“China most likely will seek to establish additional military bases in countries with which it has a longstanding friendly relationship and similar strategic interests, such as Pakistan,” the report said.

“This initiative, along with regular naval vessel visits to foreign ports, both reflects and amplifies China’s growing influence, extending the reach of its armed forces.”

Last year China began building its first overseas base in the African nation of Djibouti, already home to Camp Lemonnier, a large US instillation responsible for counter terrorism operations in the Persian Gulf and east and north Africa.

The new base is frequently cited in the Pentagon report along with wider ambitions for additional installations. Pakistan was singled out as a likely location and it is already the largest buyer of Chinese-made arms.

“China wants the capability to negate American primacy in the region, and after that to become the strongest military in the region,” said Sam Roggeveen, a China military expert at the Lowy Institute for International Policy.

“For now China’s ambitions remain regional, but it is becoming clear China has broader global aspirations, and while they are still in the early stages, they beginning to take shape.”

China has become increasingly assertive militarily in recent years, especially in territorial disputes in the East and South China Seas, where it frequently challenges US warships and planes. Military expansion overseas also ties into a $900bn infrastructure initiative championed by president Xi Jinping to create a new Silk Road, with some of the planned projects in unstable regions like Afghanistan and Pakistan.

But some say the plans are a natural extension of China’s desire to be more involved in international security.

“With China’s interests expanding globally, China needs limited but necessary defense facilities in foreign countries,” said Zhu Feng, an international security professor at Nanjing University. As China’s military expands abroad, Zhu said the greatest challenge would be cooperation and communication with international community.

He also decried the West’s “double standards” with regard to China’s ambitions, saying fears were unfounded.

The installation in Djibouti “is not a military base, it’s a military supply base. The characterisation is wrong,” Zhu added, echoing Chinese government language that seeks to play down the scope of the facility.

“China may build similar supply bases overseas when necessary.”

China already has the largest navy in the Pacific, the Pentagon report said with more than 300 ships. But China still lags behind the US and Japan in terms of technology and capability.

In a break with previous assessments, the US defense department did not record a significant increase in reclaimed land centered on disputed islands in the South China Sea. China previously poured sand into the ocean to create 3,200 acres (1,300 hectares) around seven rocks and reef in the spratly islands, according to the report.

Three of the man-made islands have airfields and will be capable of supporting three regiments of fighters once it finishes construction of “24 fighter-sized hangars, fixed-weapons positions, barracks, administration buildings, and communication facilities at each of the three outposts”.

Despite the prospect of airbases in the South China Sea, which have been called “unsinkable aircraft carriers”, it remains to be seen if China can maintain squadrons so far from the mainland for extended periods of time, Roggeveen said.

The deployment of fighters won’t escalate regional tension, Zhu said. “It is a very limited but necessary defense facility,” he added, saying US warships in the region were to blame for escalating tensions.

With additional reporting by Wang Zhen.

chola · Post by **chola** » 07 Jun 2017 17:01

Singha wrote:good point Chola. this civil war type monitor thing could be a pita in the green water hiding among reefs and lagoons. its conceptually a mobile underwater barge with a heavy missile loadout like the Delta-IV with the huge boxy hump.

the semi autonomous concept is in trials by US already albeit in a ASW role to hunt these green water monitors!
http://foxtrotalpha.jalopnik.com/darpas ... 1695566032

Yeah! As a kid in Amreeki grade school, I loved reading about the Monitor (and its opponent the Merrimac.) A heavily armed vessel with low profile that was impossible to spot until up close and hard to hit with just the turret above water.

Drawbacks are still the same with a modern monitor though. Low mast means lack of detection range unless in friendly radar/sonar/satellite and communication network.

@brar, for Cheen using such a vessel to target land would need full offensive control of air and sea -- meaning control away from chini shore-based coverage. Not happening with the USN/USAF dominating the region right up to the chini coast and with the PRC being constantly reminded of the fact. lol. We had multiple little boy tantrum (upside-down, weaving in front, etc.) intercepts by J-10s and Flankers against USAF AC-135 and USN P-3 just in past few weeks!

Nope, this concept if they actually build it would be against USN surface assets and that is basically the CBG. As far as USN and allied subs, they are building a large number of Type 54 FFGs and Type 55 corvettes and a sonar net. Even here, the arsenal ship can help since the chini UVLS incudes ASu missiles.

In every facet, the chinis will be massively outgunned if war breaks out and I'm pretty sure they know that. This arsenal ship is an asymetrical defensive gambit to break out of the US cordon.

brar_w · Post by **brar_w** » 07 Jun 2017 17:39

The US does not plan to send its CBG anywhere near a near peer hot zone ( such as a XXXX km of its anti access offensive capability) until a very vast amount of its surface and sub surface VLS has been depleted, and even then they are always looking at concepts of rearming at sea. Moreover unmanned aviation will likely double (if not more) the Carrier's ability to stand off by say 2035-2040 greatly increasing the distance such an anti CBG vessel must cover. Same with the ability of the CBG to strike using its strike aircraft from stand off distances. Future J series, and AGM-X series of weapons will likely have 2-3x stand off ranges, in GPS contested/denied environments. If doctrinally they are trying to limit and create NO GO zones for a CBG, the CBG and the future air-wing is already doing that from a capabilities perspective i.e. deliver effects from stand off ranges, allowing them to pull the carriers back, and use the more survivable fleet for initial strike.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 10 Jun 2017 11:39

Pentagon: China Is 'Closing the Gap' in Air Power with U.S.

http://www.ainonline.com/aviation-news/ ... r-power-us

The People’s Liberation Army Air Force (PLAAF) is “closing the gap rapidly” with Western air forces across a broad spectrum of capabilities, states the Pentagon’s annual report to Congress on China’s military, released on June 6. “This development is gradually eroding the significant technical advantage held by the United States,” the report adds.

Last year, China announced a 7 percent increase in military spending, to $144.3 billion, sustaining its position as the second largest military spender after the U.S. (The Pentagon requested $582 billion for the current fiscal year.) Between 2007 and 2016, China’s military budget grew an average of 8.5 percent per year on an inflation-adjusted basis, according to the report.

China’s aircraft industry still relies on foreign-sourced components for high-performance aircraft engines, but its expertise in building both commercial and military aircraft has improved with work on the C919 commercial airliner and Xian Y-20 military transport, the Pentagon said.

The PLAAF fields Asia’s largest air force, with more than 2,700 total manned aircraft, including 2,100 combat aircraft. Of the latter, China operates approximately 600 fourth-generation fighters, including Russian-built Su-27/Su-30, Chinese/Russian J-11A and indigenous Chengdu J-10 and Shenyang J-11B fighters.

China is developing the fifth-generation Chengdu J-20 and carrier-capable Shenyang FC-31 Gryfalcon fighters, which could enter service as early as next year, the Pentagon states.

The Chinese air force continues to upgrade its H-6 bomber fleet with standoff weapons—the H-6K carries six CJ-20 air-launched cruise missiles, “giving the PLA a long-range standoff precision strike capability that can reach Guam.” By acquiring three IL-78 aerial refueling tankers from Ukraine, the PLAAF has extended the range of its Su-30s operating in support of the H-6K bomber. Plans call for a new generation of long-range bomber to debut around 2025.

China started production last year of the Y-20 transport “in an effort to correct a strategic airlift deficiency that holds back force projection capabilities.” The Y-20 is China’s first indigenous heavy-lift jet transport, which could also serve as an aerial refueling tanker or airborne early warning aircraft. China also rolled out the AG600 large amphibious seaplane, which has a range of 4,500 km (2,796 miles).

The Ukranian-built Liaoning, China’s first aircraft carrier, conducted its second carrier task group integration training in December in the South China Sea. The Pentagon expects the Liaoning, when fully operational, will be less capable than U.S. Navy Nimitz-class carriers in projecting power. China is currently building its first domestically designed carrier, the Shandong, which is expected to enter service in 2020.

“Last year, China continued to learn lessons from operating its first aircraft carrier, Liaoning, while constructing its first domestically produced aircraft carrier—the beginning of what the PLA states will be a multi-carrier force,” the report states. “China’s next generation of carriers will probably have greater endurance and be capable of launching more varied types of aircraft, including EW, early warning and ASW aircraft. These improvements would increase the potential striking power of a potential ‘carrier battle group’ in safeguarding China’s interests in areas beyond its immediate periphery.”

China displayed five unmanned aircraft systems (UAS) at the Zhuhai Airshow in November 2016: the Wing Loong I, Wing Loong II, WJ-600A/D, Yunying Cloud Shadow and CH-5 (Rainbow 5). The CH-5 is the country’s most heavily armed UAS, with payload capacity for 16 air-to-surface munitions. In the last two years, the PLA unveiled the Gongji 1 UAS for intelligence, surveillance and reconnaissance and deployed drones to the South China Sea, according to the report.

From 2011 to 2015, China ranked as the world’s fourth largest arms exporter, with more than $20 billion in sales, including $9 billion to Pakistan and other Asia-Pacific countries. It sold armed drones to several countries in the Middle East, including Iraq, Saudi Arabia, Egypt and the UAE.

China faces “little competition” from other large UAS manufacturing countries that are restricted in selling such technology as signatories of the Missile Technology Control Regime (MTCR) and/or the Wassenaar Arrangement on export controls of conventional arms and dual-use technologies, the Pentagon said.