Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016
Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016
Thank you for that deejay. Beautifully written.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016
From the article:Paul wrote:India begins talks for French Jaguar fighters
http://www.defensenews.com/articles/ind ... r-fighters
Total Rafale Project (36) = € 7.8 B (~$9B)Of the €7.8 billion, the platform costs approximately €3.42 billion; another €1.8 billion is for infrastructure and support supplies; €1.7 billion will be spent to meet India-specific changes to the aircraft; €710 million is for the additional weapons package; and €353 million is the cost of performance-based logistics support.
Cost of Planes: €3.42 B (€ 95 M per plane = $109M /plane).
Infrastructure and Support Supplies = € 1.8 B
India specific changes: €1.7 billion (mounting new-generation Meteor and Scalp missiles)
Additional Weapons: €710 million
Logistics support: €353 million
Last edited by A Deshmukh on 18 Jul 2017 11:36, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016
I like they idea of buying some Jaguars, Mig 29's and M-2000's to keep numbers up until the LCA can replace them up. It is far better idea that Single Jet Fighter thingie.
These can give cushion till the LCA MK1, 1A and MK 11 replace the Mig 21 Bisions, balance of Mig 27's which need replacement.
These can give cushion till the LCA MK1, 1A and MK 11 replace the Mig 21 Bisions, balance of Mig 27's which need replacement.
Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016
We are not buying additional JaguarsAditya_V wrote:I like they idea of buying some Jaguars, Mig 29's and M-2000's to keep numbers up until the LCA can replace them up. It is far better idea that Single Jet Fighter thingie.
These can give cushion till the LCA MK1, 1A and MK 11 replace the Mig 21 Bisions, balance of Mig 27's which need replacement.
@Livefist
Livefist wrote: 12:19 PM - 17 Jul 2017 - These are for parts, not airframes to-go. Offer actually bigger: parts cannibalisation on 30 Jaguars & to-go Mirage 2000 airframes.
12:22 PM - 17 Jul 2017 - IAF's effort to replace 2 Mirages lost in crashes still hasn't been concluded. We hear there's a stalemate there between HAL & Dassault.
12:27 PM - 17 Jul 2017 - France aggressively milks dead jets for biz from current users. Last month, Argentinian team arrived to cannibalise 7 Super Etendards.
7:23 PM - 17 Jul 2017 - A few, if at all. Though the French govt envisions a push of up to 40 jets.(to-go Mirage 2000 airframes)
Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016
We are spending a colossal amt. on M2K upgrades,working out to around $50M a unit.Brand new MIG-29UG/35, std.cost between $30M to 40M.It's why M2K oldies less attractive than MIG-29s (Malaysian).
Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016
Thank you Deejay sir for your posts like the one below. It helps keep the faith.
deejay wrote: Mandy was a close friend and a coursemate. On Sunday (16th July) was the bhog at Patiala. We lost him on 04th. Still can't get it in my head that he is gone. We shared a room during training. One of the first in the course to fly Captain over Siachen Glacier. A great runner. The smile and the polite jokes. Just nothing that you could fault him with.
Though he did not play any major role in operationalizing the Dhruv but once in the units it were people like Dhillon who made it their "baby" so to speak.
A special mention and salute goes out to the family. The sheer dignity and composure of the family in handling this irreparable loss is inspirational in itself. Mandy's father is a retired Air Force Officer as is his Father -in - Law. He has left behind 02 young children, a daughter and a son. Mrs. Dhillon is bravely picking up the pieces. May God give them strength. Punjab Govt has assured the lady of a government job, so I hope that works out. Hopefully there will be some ex-gratia from the Arunachal Govt.
Miss you Mandy. Stay happy wherever you are mate.
Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016
That's two squadrons worth of Mirage 2000. Two more squadrons worth could be picked up from Qatar and UAE. There would be more from French AF in a few years.Kakarat wrote:We are not buying additional JaguarsAditya_V wrote:I like they idea of buying some Jaguars, Mig 29's and M-2000's to keep numbers up until the LCA can replace them up. It is far better idea that Single Jet Fighter thingie.
These can give cushion till the LCA MK1, 1A and MK 11 replace the Mig 21 Bisions, balance of Mig 27's which need replacement.
@Livefist
Livefist wrote: 12:19 PM - 17 Jul 2017 - These are for parts, not airframes to-go. Offer actually bigger: parts cannibalisation on 30 Jaguars & to-go Mirage 2000 airframes.
12:22 PM - 17 Jul 2017 - IAF's effort to replace 2 Mirages lost in crashes still hasn't been concluded. We hear there's a stalemate there between HAL & Dassault.
12:27 PM - 17 Jul 2017 - France aggressively milks dead jets for biz from current users. Last month, Argentinian team arrived to cannibalise 7 Super Etendards.
7:23 PM - 17 Jul 2017 - A few, if at all. Though the French govt envisions a push of up to 40 jets.(to-go Mirage 2000 airframes)
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016
Sraiji Saab, hope you realize that not one of them is in flying condition.srai wrote: That's two squadrons worth of Mirage 2000. Two more squadrons worth could be picked up from Qatar and UAE. There would be more from French AF in a few years.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016
Thanks Deejay for this beautiful tribute and last post for Wingco Mandy. It's so personal for you as he is your coursemate and room mate too. My deeest condolences.Manish_P wrote:Thank you Deejay sir for your posts like the one below. It helps keep the faith.
deejay wrote: Mandy was a close friend and a coursemate. On Sunday (16th July) was the bhog at Patiala. We lost him on 04th. Still can't get it in my head that he is gone. We shared a room during training. One of the first in the course to fly Captain over Siachen Glacier. A great runner. The smile and the polite jokes. Just nothing that you could fault him with.
Though he did not play any major role in operationalizing the Dhruv but once in the units it were people like Dhillon who made it their "baby" so to speak.
A special mention and salute goes out to the family. The sheer dignity and composure of the family in handling this irreparable loss is inspirational in itself. Mandy's father is a retired Air Force Officer as is his Father -in - Law. He has left behind 02 young children, a daughter and a son. Mrs. Dhillon is bravely picking up the pieces. May God give them strength. Punjab Govt has assured the lady of a government job, so I hope that works out. Hopefully there will be some ex-gratia from the Arunachal Govt.
Miss you Mandy. Stay happy wherever you are mate.
My email is firstname last name 108 at gmail. Do drop me mail.
Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016
From what I understand the Jaguars are the ones not in flying condition and Mirage 2000 could be soon to be retired or just retired. I don't think IAF will be buying any if they are not flight worthy or not having enough service life. The French have made an offer but don't know whats the reaction of IAF or GOIBala Vignesh wrote: Sraiji Saab, hope you realize that not one of them is in flying condition.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016
Bala, are you sure the UAE units are non operational?
btw, Taiwan has 56 M2Ks that were supposedly up for retirement. Brazil probably has already retired 12 that it operated until recently.
Was under the impression our M2K units at least 1, 7 were 12 single seaters and 2-4 trainers. Could someone kindly edumacate?
btw, Taiwan has 56 M2Ks that were supposedly up for retirement. Brazil probably has already retired 12 that it operated until recently.
Was under the impression our M2K units at least 1, 7 were 12 single seaters and 2-4 trainers. Could someone kindly edumacate?
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016
Marten sir,Marten wrote:Bala, are you sure the UAE units are non operational?
btw, Taiwan has 56 M2Ks that were supposedly up for retirement. Brazil probably has already retired 12 that it operated until recently.
Was under the impression our M2K units at least 1, 7 were 12 single seaters and 2-4 trainers. Could someone kindly edumacate?
I was talking about the the FAF mirages, not the UAE/Qatari ones. Those are very much operational, iirc.
Our No1 and No 7 squadrons are at full authorised strength of 16+2 while the No 9 is understrength by a flight (only 9-12 birds on strength) and most of them twin seaters.
Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016
Left Ball on the line if I recall correctly.Paul wrote:Shiv, you are in trouble now.
India begins talks for French Jaguar fighters
http://www.defensenews.com/articles/ind ... r-fighters
Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016
Yes Indeed.Rakesh wrote:Thank you for that deejay. Beautifully written.
Thanks Deejay.
Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016
the UAE's Mirages are doing just fine, they're not near being retired, especially since the supposed UAE deal for Rafales never came through. Qatar's Mirage 2000-5s could be snapped up if a decent offer is made, since they're due to get Rafale deliveries from 2018 onwards. Taiwan won't part with its Mirage-2000-5s, they need all available airframes. They've supposedly had trouble with parts thanks to Chinese pressure on the French, but that doesn't mean they're nearing retirement.Marten wrote:Bala, are you sure the UAE units are non operational?
btw, Taiwan has 56 M2Ks that were supposedly up for retirement. Brazil probably has already retired 12 that it operated until recently.
Was under the impression our M2K units at least 1, 7 were 12 single seaters and 2-4 trainers. Could someone kindly edumacate?
France itself is looking to retire its oldest Mirage-2000Cs. Those will be the ones that will be offered. Will be interesting to see if they're just used as Christmas trees for supporting the rest of the fleet or whether they'll be put through the Mirage-2000I/TI upgrade like the rest of the IAF's Mirages.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016
Beautifully written deejay. Its a big loss. Do you have any info from the grapevine on what might have gone wrong? I know CoI will be still looking into it. But just wanted to see if there were any initial clues.deejay wrote:
Miss you Mandy. Stay happy wherever you are mate.
Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016
We can also "begin talks" about that..just sayinKhalsa wrote:Left Ball on the line if I recall correctly.Paul wrote:Shiv, you are in trouble now.
India begins talks for French Jaguar fighters
http://www.defensenews.com/articles/ind ... r-fighters
Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016
Please wait for CoI to give the verdict but all indications are bad weather.putnanja wrote:Beautifully written deejay. Its a big loss. Do you have any info from the grapevine on what might have gone wrong? I know CoI will be still looking into it. But just wanted to see if there were any initial clues.deejay wrote:
Miss you Mandy. Stay happy wherever you are mate.
Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016
LOLshiv wrote:We can also "begin talks" about that..just sayinKhalsa wrote: Left Ball on the line if I recall correctly.
talks talks and more talks.
much rather have a scotch
Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016
Indian Air Force may fly PM's aircraft after Air India sale
The Indian Air Force (IAF) might own and operate the aircraft used by the President and the prime minister (PM) in long-distance travel after the privatisation of Air India, a top government official said on Wednesday. At present, an Air India Boeing 747 is used by the President and the PM for long-duration, transcontinental flights, while the IAF’s Air Headquarters Communication Squadron operates a number of Boeing Business Jets, other executive jets, and helicopters for travel within the country and to neighbouring nations.
Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016
IAF will have to buy 2-3 wide body to fly VVIP PM/President etc for Trancontinental Flights unless they are fine with multiple hops and refuelling with BBJ
Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016
The GoI will simply transfer those 747s to the IAF. It is unnecessary to buy new aircraft for that purpose.
Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016
There was a proposal to use the 3 Boeing 777 for this purpose out of the new lot that Air India had booked after handing over the current 747 back.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016
Air India has no 777 on order iirc, only 788.
Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016
Sorry, they were supposed to order new 777 for Pm and President.Bala Vignesh wrote:Air India has no 777 on order iirc, only 788.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016
This was under discussion, don't recall IAF/AI placing an order for the same..
Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016
Why isn't there a service/support facility in India as being part of the deal? Haven't we learnt our lessons from the Sov. era systems support after the USSR ended? Well-knowing that the maintenance expiry date was around the corner,the MOD/IAF should've taken early measures for the same.Typical babudom costing the nation and taxpayer dearly.The Swiss will now demand an arm and a leg for continued support and HAL's basic trainer wonder still has years fo flight testing before it can enters series production and a reliable chain of support established.
Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016
"The MoD, under the current rule of the NDA government, is not likely [to] give support for [a] major contract for spares of Pilatus, and IAF has to maintain the fleet within the existing budget for the entire fleet," the IAF official said."
Firstly its MOD not extending contract for spares not Swiss not extending.
Secondly, it's an un-named official.
Thirdly, it hasn't happened yet. Could/may/perhaps happen. Speculative and perhaps arms twisting to exercise the remaining options.
Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016
Be fully prepared: IAF officer to personnel
http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... l-4761787/
The MiG-21 Bison Upgrade Programme
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Aircr ... Bison.html
http://www.indiastrategic.in/topstories ... ommand.htm
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Database/15678
http://indianexpress.com/article/india/ ... l-4761787/
FYI...Air Marshal Dhir was the pilot who flew the first production MiG-21 Bison in 2002. Pls see below...Air Officer Commanding-in-Chief (AOC-in-C) of the South Western Air Command, Air Marshal R K Dhir, visited the strategically important Air Force Station Pune....
The MiG-21 Bison Upgrade Programme
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Aircr ... Bison.html
Biography on Air Marshal R K DhirWg Cdr Dhir flew the first ‘series’ production UPG (CU-2782) on Jan 25th, 2002.
http://www.indiastrategic.in/topstories ... ommand.htm
http://www.bharat-rakshak.com/IAF/Database/15678
Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016
Really moving Deejay. My condolences.
Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016
Swiss firm not extending maintenance deal for India's PC-7 trainers
http://www.defensenews.com/articles/swi ... 7-trainers
http://www.defensenews.com/articles/swi ... 7-trainers
Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016
unfrikkin believable...
Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016
They must be scared shit going for maintenance deal on their built PCs , finding they were being screwed up badly by our badass sky warriors !! Speaks volume of our training regime. A maintenance contract brings tons of money .
Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016
huh?? they want more money and our mod wants to give less and only one caught up in the mess is the IAFs logistics establishment..these are just pressure tactics.
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Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016
Well we are facing a classic problem we are probably largest importers of finished parts and arms ; Chinese might be buying more in sheer dollar terms but they are not dependent on suppliers for simple things like nuts, bolts and bearings . We are nook nude in this department and at mercy of jugad and a few working relations with existing suppliers .
I can actually tell you for a fact how IAF will work around this ; they will do exactly what they did in the past i.e. reduce the effective number of flying AC and reserve some of them for spares . IN did the same with Tupolevs and even UK sourced Sea Kings and Harriers .
I can actually tell you for a fact how IAF will work around this ; they will do exactly what they did in the past i.e. reduce the effective number of flying AC and reserve some of them for spares . IN did the same with Tupolevs and even UK sourced Sea Kings and Harriers .
Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016
Two very different (but connected) points in that post
and"The follow-on guarantee of further 36 months beyond December 2016 is not being cleared by MoD on grounds of steep price," the MoD official said.
So it seems basically that Pilatus is saying the prices of the maintenance have gone up since 2012.. so either pay at the new rates OR buy additional aircraft (agreed earlier ?!) and get a discount on the maintenance chargesThe Swiss company was unavailable for comment, but an Indian Air Force official asserted that the Pilatus is not extending the contract because the MoD decided against buying additional PC-7 Turbo Trainers, "which were earlier agreed upon."
Re: Indian Air Force News & Discussion - 15 Dec 2016
In other words HTT-40 is doing well.
We can maintain these aircraft's without OEM support since engine can be maintained by Pratt & Whitney support.
We can maintain these aircraft's without OEM support since engine can be maintained by Pratt & Whitney support.