Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

Iyersan · Post by **Iyersan** » 25 Jul 2017 16:33

http://www.ianslive.in/index.php?param= ... atestNews/
India responsible for border mess, must pull back: Chinese Foreign Minister
First official Govt of Dlagistan response

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 25 Jul 2017 16:39

Iyersan wrote:http://www.ianslive.in/index.php?param= ... atestNews/
India responsible for border mess, must pull back: Chinese Foreign Minister
First official Govt of Dlagistan response

There is no mess at the border.

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 25 Jul 2017 17:01

Prasad wrote:+1. Making a move to look NorthWest and bringing the 4 -stans above will help. Clearing out PoK of its rat infestation will help build a nice trade route all the way to Caspian Sea in the west and Astana in the north, bringing all those countries into a trade relationship by road/rail with India. Won't be a moment too soon to bring back areas with Indic history back into close contact.oday.Samarkand, that Taimur made as capital, has a rich buddhist history that Xuanzang saw on his way to India after passing through Kashgar in Xinjiang province t

I do not think so. You go to Samarkand and you are told that Hindu and Buddhist idols are imbedded in foot steps of this and that mosque ( by Taimur).

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 25 Jul 2017 17:02

Shiv Sir, thanks for posting all these videos on jutube. They are perhaps only non military (yet technical enough) source of info. Can you put another video, which just talks about how the war may develop (apart from various detailed youtube video, it is hard to form an integral view) and what could be PLAA/our vulnerabilities. It looks like from the video that we should have a upper hand, but that was also true in 1962, what happened (or is their an element that we are not considering).
Currently simple google tell us that of our 36 divisions or so, potential 18 could be poised against China (how many currently is a different q). While Chinese have 7-8 div in their 7/8th army, they have plans and can bring 32 div worth of army (where they will place them?, on a narrow front, it is a disadvantage, most historical war lost by larger force have been they were limited to a narrower front, where weight of numbers did not matter). Per Sjha, there are some 2 dozen military passes of interest and some another 100 touch points on the 4000 km border. what can they do?
Of the PLAAF not able to fly planes at optimum capacity in Tibet, they have 24 J-10/J11 near Lhasa, and in other airfields. Why? if it cannot fight? Is the disadvantage that great?
1962 various account tells, that we had limited manpower, worth 2 div against many(?) of PLAA. That maybe the reason. Not using IAF could be other (or maybe the most decisive was poor leadership, both political/military that made TSPesque assumption, world will intervene, PLAA will not counterattack eTC. ETC.).
1962 - hOW BIG WAS THE FRONT? hOW MANY ARMYMEN INVOLVED? How much was real estate lost? By some account, few places army simply abandoned, at places overwhelmed, and at others simply stood their ground and PLAA could do nothing. Maybe understanding that is the answer to this conflict?
Ps - Apparently their is a forum in defensespeak.com, I do not have access, where people are/have discussed performance of aircraft at altitude.

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 25 Jul 2017 17:05

anupmisra wrote:
nits wrote:BBC View on India \ China Standoff - Why is the India-China border stand-off escalating?

Guys in US - how is US media portraying this (if they are reporting?) and what is there view on it ?
It is not headline news. No one cares.

I am not sure if they know geographical location of Bhutan, let alone the conflict.

nits · Post by **nits** » 25 Jul 2017 17:22

rsingh wrote:
anupmisra wrote:
It is not headline news. No one cares.
I am not sure if they know geographical location of Bhutan, let alone the conflict.

They dont care about Bhutan; they will care when 2 giants are F2F - it may not be in papers but for sure the required forums / authority are watching it closely

abhik · Post by **abhik** » 25 Jul 2017 18:00

We need to do some research on how a Chinese "fire assault" (fancy speak for a massive missile fighter/bomber attack) would actually work rather than useless dhoti shibbering about a missile hitting mota bhai's house in Mumbai. This may also turnout to be garam hawa like the PLA deploying 30 divisions in Tibet.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 25 Jul 2017 18:03

fanne wrote:Shiv Sir, thanks for posting all these videos on jutube. They are perhaps only non military (yet technical enough) source of info. Can you put another video, which just talks about how the war may develop (apart from various detailed youtube video, it is hard to form an integral view) and what could be PLAA/our vulnerabilities.

Funny you should ask this. I was not going to make a video but an analytical post which may eventually fire up my thoughts enough to make a video. But this is better read I think.

Where are the border points from which the Chinese can attack? There are 9 points where conflict could take place. I will list them and write some detail from what I have observed on GE. the points will be listed from East to West

1. Eastern tip of Arunachal - near Walong
2. West of Walong along the Yangtse (Siang river in India) valley
3. Tawang
4. Sikkim/DoKala
5. Uttaranchal - Barahoti plain
6. Himachal
7. Up north along the Indus river as it starts from China right up to Demchok in the Leh area
8. Pangong Lake area
9. Aksai Chin proper

1. Eastern tip of Arunachal - near Walong
Here the terrain on the Chinese side is rough and even rougher on the Indian side. No roads, only tracks. Narrow valleys. There was huge action here in 1962. But even for the Chinese - logistics here will be tough Pretty bad actually). It will be infantry or special forces - - could be diversionary and big to tie down Indian forces for something bigger further west

2, Siang river valley:
Not much of a Chinese presence here. The terrain is the worst for logistics. This area was mentioned by Claude Arpi with reference to a 3 km tunnel built by the Chinese through some seriously bad terrain that even to this day is not passable in all weathers along the Bowo-Medog/Metog road

3.Tawang
This is where the Chinese

1. Have the strongest presence with the biggest military bases
2. Have the shortest logistics lines via good roads to the mil HQs of Nyingchi and Lhasa -
3. Hold the high ground overlooking Tawang.

A strong push here may have to mean that Indian forces fall back, ceding territory to the Chinese after which wear them down as their logistics gets bad when the come downhill

4. Sikkim/DoKala
We have discussed this continuously. We hold the high ground and need to batter down any Chinese aggression here

5. Uttaranchal - Barahoti plain
I have very little idea of Indian forces in this very very hostile terrain. There is a plateau at the top - the Barahoti plain - but although the Chinese have a presence (a camp) about 35 km away there roads are very bad through mountains and perma frost. The logistics lines for them by road are 200 km long - but the Ngari airfield is not too far off

6. Himachal
Cannot comment too much. There was hardly anything to make any video. Very long logistics for Chinese. Rough mountain roads and not a very heavy presence. Lost all my data in a disk crash while I was doing this area

7. Up north along the Indus river as it starts from China right up to Demchok in the Leh area
The Indus river starts somwhere along the region of Manasarovar and runs north along the China-India LAC past Himachal Pradesh and up towards Ladakh where it crosses into India en route to shitistan. If you locate the Ngari airfield - it is situated on the Indus river bed which consists only of a few rivulets. If you follow the Indus river bed towards India you will find a Chinese road extending all the way on the side. There are 5-6 military installations along that flat river bed. Some of them are so far from the actual LAC that it appears that they have a defensive purpose. they all have ditch/wall defences - so the Chinese may be expecting an Indian motorised advance along the Indus river bed. Finally this all ends near Demchok where Indian and Chinese positions are eye to eye. The village of Demchok has an Indian part and a Chinese part and a Chinese base is there in the Chinese part. but India too has a robust presence at Demchok

8. Pangong Lake area
The western 40% of Pangong is under Indian freedom. The rest is in Chinese jaws. They have 3-4 military sites along the lake but most significant is the town of Rutog just south of the Eastern end of Panging which has oil storage tanks and air conditioned military logistics/storage buildings. Rutog was a big military site even in 1962.. A short distance from Rutog along the G219 highway - is the town of Ngari - a major military town that covers for Ladakh, Aksai chin, Himachal and Uttarakhand. So this is an area where the Chnese could mount an assault and grab some territory to tie down forces while the main assault can come from say Tawang

9. Aksai Chin proper
Here the Chines presence is not large and their logistics lines are long. But they have plenty of space to set up camps and harrass and tie down forces. But IMO these attacks should be cleaned up using air power/helos. Aksai Chin is very high up and supplies must come from 1000s of km away

kmz of many of these:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B3JNY ... jk4Y0wteDA

Video list of all these areas:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=azQlfT9 ... i5uVH9q5q-

nits · Post by **nits** » 25 Jul 2017 18:07

shiv wrote:an analytical post which may eventually fire up my thoughts enough to make a video. But this is better read I think.

Very informative Post Shiv Sir - Thanks

rajpa · Post by **rajpa** » 25 Jul 2017 18:12

Cheen will try and use massive force to remove the indian forces stationed in Doklam. The rationale would be that they are getting rid of intruders "within their borders". This must be the logic behind their belligerent media campaign.

I am sure the IA has wargamed this. What are your thoughts on this scenario?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 25 Jul 2017 18:25

rajpa wrote:Cheen will try and use massive force to remove the indian forces stationed in Doklam. The rationale would be that they are getting rid of intruders "within their borders". This must be the logic behind their belligerent media campaign.

I am sure the IA has wargamed this. What are your thoughts on this scenario?

Currently - for the Chinese to put "massive forces" on Dokala they will have to bring those forces down the S 204 highway to Yadong/Chumbi. This whole area is within view of Indian forces sitting up the heights. Those forces then have to climb up some mountain trails to get to the Bhutan border at Sinche la and then enter the Do Kala plateau. May not be very wise unless preceded by a huge visible build up and massive artillery hammering of Indian positions. Indians will not sit in tight bunches waiting to get hit by an artillery shell. Just my thoughts.

Manish_Sharma · Post by **Manish_Sharma** » 25 Jul 2017 18:27

Singha wrote:
Mort Walker wrote:This might be the best time for India to test a multi-megaton TNW.
ameen brother. we need a 1 TN device atop the A3 and A5 until smaller MIRV payloads are tested. with their accuracy, they should be devastating. the 50s era MT devices were with CEP of 2000meters, now it will be 100m

we avoidably continue to paint ourself into corners with overly dharmic moves.

This is the post I had written in 2009, on Deterrence Thread:

Manish_Sharma wrote:I feel the three things that worry China regarding India most are:

1. Respect India is earning in the world for its democracy and human rights record. Plus unlike chinese the west & ru does not sees india as threat or having the dream of taking over the world.

2. While China is growing old fast with its one child policy, india is having such a big population of young people.

So when the CCP looks about 30 years ahead, it does see indians taking over the production work done by China now and providing it much better qualitywise.

Already they see India taking over China in exporting small cars, also the reliability and quality people are appreciating of these cars compared to China.

While China exported 1.60 lakh cars, India has exported 2.65 lakh. Not to mention the super prowess in softwares.

3. India easily blocking the oil tankers passing through indian ocean to China. Imagine during the war India stopping or blowing up 3-4 oil tankers going to China.

But inspite of all this China has bigger enemies or competitors in US and Russia.

Now if China gets into nuclear exchange with India and destroys 20 indian cities while losing 8 of its own industrial cities plus some mega projects like tibet rail, 3g dam, 3 oil tankers, 2 ports and few refineries. It will be considerably weakened. Its dream of surging ahead of US will be delayed at least by 100 years and even after that who knows.

Not only that it will be at the mercy of US + NATO + Rus taking advantage of its weakened position.

This time it is a far cry from a closed country of Mao's past. In the age of internet and globalisation its citizens are fully connected and aware of the world.

So what it does is use the porki whore to wage war on India in two stages:

Stage 1: Proxy war or thousand cut war by islamic jehad.

Stage 2: Preparing the porki whore for the nuclear exchange.

Now when the nuke exchange happens with porkis. We will be inclined to use the nukes first against porkis thus spending part of our "anyway not so big minimum credible deterrent".

This gives Chinese three advantages, first is part of our arsenel is already spent on porkis. Secondly it gives them a small but crucial time window to take out rest of our missile bases etc.

Whatever rest is thrown at them will have to go through their ABM defence. So some may fail on its own some may be tackled by ABM and some 20kts reach.

Thirdly they can say to the west that they were only preventing india to escalate and launch more, so no sanctions from west.

This is the reason for Bharatvarsh to have more reason for fully tested reliable "Daada Banaye, Pota Barte" TN warhead. Not a claim that "India has the capability to make 200kt warhead".

Now by TN capability I don't say we need Megaton or even 500kt warheads. No just sadaa 200kt TN very very well tested warhead will do.

Thus saving on the fissile material plus lighter warheads in much much greater numbers. More numbers + More dispersed = More survivablity.

We cannot base the national security on the guess of how much threat of losing how many million people may deter PRC. No they should be sure of going back at least by 100 years only that will deter them.

With this capability we can let it be known clearly to the world and prc that any nuke attack by the world renouned porki whore on the motherland and we will see it as attack by prc too.

Thus retaliating at the both of them. This is the only way I see prc holding porkis back in any misadventure.

Like Santhanam said this India can't do with two 20kt warheads over Beijing. Who know in 10 years somebody more ruthless takes over from Hu Jintao.

Or some economic calamity befalls PRC and to divert the attention of antirevolutioneries CCP launches attack against India. No there are millions of possibilities happening in which India may be caught with piddly warheads in tiny numbers.

Do the test of 200kt. TN warheads 6 times in three different designs. Each design should be tested at least twice each for the reliability.

Sanctions < destruction of 10 cities

Sanctions < destruction of 2 cities

Sanctions < destruction of 1 city

Sanctions < destruction of 1/4th of the city.

Sanctions < losing AP.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=5219&start=80#p748888

SSridhar · Post by **SSridhar** » 25 Jul 2017 18:43

Iyersan wrote:India responsible for border mess, must pull back: Chinese Foreign Minister

Wang is economical with truth when he says, ""he rights and wrongs are very clear, and even senior Indian officials have openly stated that Chinese troops did not enter into the Indian boundary. So India has admitted it crossed into the Chinese territory". How he arrived at the conclusion from the [bolded] statement is mysterious.

The answer is that Indian troops also did not enter into Chinese territory for the Chinese to ask it to withdraw.

If Wang's logic is to be used, then "China has admitted it crossed into the Indian territory"

Pulikeshi · Post by **Pulikeshi** » 25 Jul 2017 18:55

SSridhar wrote: If Wang's logic is to be used, then "China has admitted it crossed into the Indian territory"

Wang goes the logic!

India and her supporter should stick to the response - "So China does not have a boundary agreement with Bhutan, then what you claim as Chinese territory cannot be accepted as such unless and until you settle the boundary dispute with India and Bhutan. When can your Supreme Leder find time?"

TKiran · Post by **TKiran** » 25 Jul 2017 19:08

chola wrote:
TKiran wrote:Chola, it's getting boring... Chill out...
Yeah, boring for me too. Losing hope fast of us doing a 1962 in reverse since Cheen is nothing but hot air and the GOI will never take the offensive even when the balance is heavily in our favor.

Just watch the movie "Sholay". Gabbar Singh sent his army men to the village. The villagers dhoti shiver. Jai and veeru come out. The goonda asks veeru to lick his boots so that he will spare the villagers. Veeru goes to the goonda to lick the boot. You are hemamalini... Full tenction... Suspense....

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 25 Jul 2017 19:38

nits wrote:BBC View on India \ China Standoff - Why is the India-China border stand-off escalating?

Guys in US - how is US media portraying this (if they are reporting?) and what is there view on it ?

Between what Trump had for breakfast, Melani Trump's and Ivanka Trump's stylish wear including the color of their panties, to latest celebrity romance, and going down the list to every insignificant occurrence anywhere in US, after which follows the programmed robotic diatribes against NK, Iran, and Russia; maybe, just maybe in some rags like NYT and WP that have an international section, there is some talk. But by and large India is not on the radar screen of US media (except as has been the case for aeons: caste, India and Paaakistan etc), while China is, but not because of Doklam.

If you guys think UnDy is baaad, and it sure is, those on BR who have not lived for any length of time in US should just watch US media for about a few months to realize that while it is 'free', the manner in which US media is literally an arm of US govt when it comes to foreign policy, how it brainwashes its own people and elites from turd world countries is breathtaking, they will make Pravda and Xinhua news agencies look like bastions of model journalism.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 25 Jul 2017 19:44

Here is one barometer. I don't know if anyone watches that Uncle Tom Fareed Zakariah's show on CNN (I haven't even tuned into it for more that a year or so), but given that he is those most ''useful idiot" in the hands of Pentagon, CIA, and other honchos, I would watch to see if he is talking about it and what he says is his master's voice.

panduranghari · Post by **panduranghari** » 25 Jul 2017 19:50

Pulikeshi wrote: Even if there were such a thing, it is in India's best interest to let others subsidize her transformation - will not got into this more!

Agreed. To achieve this GOI should spin the outcome of Doklam incident as a victory over China. Xi will have to say what Mao did- India won over China the second time, without firing a bullet.

Lekhraj · Post by **Lekhraj** » 25 Jul 2017 19:55

Sri Lanka's cabinet 'clears port deal' with China firm after concerns addressed

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-sri- ... SKBN1AA0PI

China has been building ports in Pakistan, Sri Lanka and Bangladesh and smaller island nations in what military officials call a "String of Pearls" in the Indian Ocean, or a network of friendly ports where its warships can refuel.

New Delhi in 2014 was alarmed when a Chinese submarine docked in Colombo, where another Chinese firm is building a $1.4 billion port city on reclaimed land.

India has long considered Sri Lanka, just off its southern coast, as within its sphere of influence and sought to push back against China's expanding maritime presence. In May, Sri Lanka turned down a Chinese request to dock a submarine.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 25 Jul 2017 20:02

NaMo wishes Happy Birthyday to Xi Jin Ping.

NYT Ellen Barry is preplexed

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 25 Jul 2017 20:13

Imagine no power, no phones in cities, at least in north India, maybe also in the South if some Chinese submarines manage to launch cruise missiles from the Indian Ocean into South India.

Hmm!!! The best thing that could happen to desh, in fact. As they said during the Asian Financial Crisis of the 1990s when no one could figure out how to manipulate India's bank ledgers, India would be totally unaffected. Will trigger solar cell and biogas generator manufacturing in India with a sheltered market (no more Chinese imports) and complete energy independence.

Shiv, wonder what would happen, given the General's very sober assessment, if the PM were to order civil defense drills all over India. Sireens, and ppl doing drills for nuclear attack. Like

Bend down, put ur head between ur legs over your pot-belly, and kiss ur *** goodbye

IMO, this was what was done in the Cuban missile crisis to get ppl worried about the remote possibility of a few missiles being stationed in Cuba within range and 1/2 hr flying time of thousands of US aircraft. Worked like a charm. People dug lots of holes in the ground, since converted to septic tanks and compost pits.

For one thing, it would be sooooo good to see some desi brats pulled away from being couch-potato mobile-phone twiddlers, and taught to belly-crawl on gravel lots under barbed wire carrying .303s in summer heat.

Also, Ditch-Digging 101. Which end of a shovel hits the ground. How to shore up a trench with logs. Tunneling for urban warfare. Signalling using Morse code and smoke, not SMS. (SMS: Smoke&Morse Signalling).

UlanBatori · Post by **UlanBatori** » 25 Jul 2017 20:17

All said and done, I think Chinese imports to India form China's biggest weak point here. Already it must be hurting. If PM goes on Twitter, they would have to slash prices by another 10% at least.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 25 Jul 2017 20:19

ldev,

Its Western think tank fiction to dream up conventional warheads for strategic missiles. Its useful to scare people to sign the MTCR and give up missiles.
Do you think the Chinese or the Russians will just wait when they see a Minuteman coming towards them despite platitudes of it being conventionally armed? Or vice versa?
Due to the strategic arms balance any strategic delivery vehicle will be assumed to be carrying strategic payloads.

Next look at the effectiveness of conventionally armed missiles even if in thousands in deciding battle field outcome. Zilch.
If they attack cities like the Iran-Iraq war then its different matter for that is all out war and leads to total war.

So lets not scare ourselves.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 25 Jul 2017 20:20

Chola, I really think you need to get more informed and limit yourself to say five posts a day and none about going to war.
Deal.

Jarita · Post by **Jarita** » 25 Jul 2017 20:31

ramana wrote:NaMo wishes Happy Birthyday to Xi Jin Ping.

NYT Ellen Barry is preplexed

Her hatred of all things Indic is so blatant, I am wondering why she does not get called out on it. She is like another Audrey Trashcan. Her entire timeline is peppered with warnings to India (via China) or trashing Modi.
How do we tolerate such propaganda voices?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 25 Jul 2017 20:31

UlanBatori wrote: Shiv, wonder what would happen, given the General's very sober assessment, if the PM were to order civil defense drills all over India. Sireens, and ppl doing drills for nuclear attack. Like .

There will be no war. There will be rebellion in the ranks of government. The army will be very angry and embarrassed when the government is forced to call a pull out from Dokala. We will lose the war without firing a shot that way.

Civll defence drills in India are common - but they are carried out by the national disaster management authority. In the 1960s paranoia of the US people either had shelters to go to or were having them built and stocking with Iodine and stuff to last our a nuke war. In India everyone lives out in the open. In general the "sentiment" of aam aadmi, whose brother and son join army is that if my brother is going to die at the frontier I will face difficulty here and die if need be. Death is looked at differently in India. it is only the wealthy hoity toity who want to live and be spared of the horrors of war and the politicians all come from this class.

I think in India people will not be asked to save their asses, they will be asked to face up to danger and hardship and save the nation. Just my guess..

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 25 Jul 2017 20:44

shiv wrote:
UlanBatori wrote: Shiv, wonder what would happen, given the General's very sober assessment, if the PM were to order civil defense drills all over India. Sireens, and ppl doing drills for nuclear attack. Like .
There will be no war. There will be rebellion in the ranks of government. The army will be very angry and embarrassed when the government is forced to call a pull out from Dokala. We will lose the war without firing a shot that way.

Civll defence drills in India are common - but they are carried out by the national disaster management authority. In the 1960s paranoia of the US people either had shelters to go to or were having them built and stocking with Iodine and stuff to last our a nuke war. In India everyone lives out in the open. In general the "sentiment" of aam aadmi, whose brother and son join army is that if my brother is going to die at the frontier I will face difficulty here and die if need be. Death is looked at differently in India. it is only the wealthy hoity toity who want to live and be spared of the horrors of war and the politicians all come from this class.

I think in India people will not be asked to save their asses, they will be asked to face up to danger and hardship and save the nation. Just my guess..

Shiv, Can you expand on this in an op-ed? I think this needs wider circulation. Something like 'Comparing and contrasting civilian attitudes in US and India to war'

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 Jul 2017 21:17

the last time air raid sirens rang in any part of india was in 1971. a AA unit placed near the brahmaputra bridge let fly at night on some unknown contact (could have been paf, or iaf) and a unexploded cannon shell or spent HMG round fell on the roof of my aunts place a few miles away on riverbank, making a hole. police took it away next day.
my uncle was studying in JJ architecture college in mumbai at same time and he recalled air raid siren too, with people of all ages diving under any shelter on the road and a single screaming fighter of unknown ownership flying near the coast. i believe the paf never managed to hit mumbai in 1971, so could have been a alert scramble by iaf itself.

it is time we started those drills all over north india to educate the public and more importantly the govt officials, doctors and police what to do. those who handled 1971 are retired or passed away.

extra stockpiles of food items, medicines, blood banks , civil defence & construction eqpt need to be built up all over not just munitions.

the public esp metro public needs to be goaded out of their soft zone.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 25 Jul 2017 21:23

shiv wrote:
UlanBatori wrote: Shiv, wonder what would happen, given the General's very sober assessment, if the PM were to order civil defense drills all over India. Sireens, and ppl doing drills for nuclear attack. Like .
There will be no war. There will be rebellion in the ranks of government. The army will be very angry and embarrassed when the government is forced to call a pull out from Dokala. We will lose the war without firing a shot that way.

Civll defence drills in India are common - but they are carried out by the national disaster management authority. In the 1960s paranoia of the US people either had shelters to go to or were having them built and stocking with Iodine and stuff to last our a nuke war. In India everyone lives out in the open. In general the "sentiment" of aam aadmi, whose brother and son join army is that if my brother is going to die at the frontier I will face difficulty here and die if need be. Death is looked at differently in India. it is only the wealthy hoity toity who want to live and be spared of the horrors of war and the politicians all come from this class.

I think in India people will not be asked to save their asses, they will be asked to face up to danger and hardship and save the nation. Just my guess..

I hope you're wrong, but it is most likely the truth after the 28th July Indian forces will pull out of Dok La. It will be business as usual.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 25 Jul 2017 21:23

shiv wrote:
UlanBatori wrote: Shiv, wonder what would happen, given the General's very sober assessment, if the PM were to order civil defense drills all over India. Sireens, and ppl doing drills for nuclear attack. Like .
There will be no war. There will be rebellion in the ranks of government. The army will be very angry and embarrassed when the government is forced to call a pull out from Dokala. We will lose the war without firing a shot that way.

Civll defence drills in India are common - but they are carried out by the national disaster management authority. In the 1960s paranoia of the US people either had shelters to go to or were having them built and stocking with Iodine and stuff to last our a nuke war. In India everyone lives out in the open. In general the "sentiment" of aam aadmi, whose brother and son join army is that if my brother is going to die at the frontier I will face difficulty here and die if need be. Death is looked at differently in India. it is only the wealthy hoity toity who want to live and be spared of the horrors of war and the politicians all come from this class.

I think in India people will not be asked to save their asses, they will be asked to face up to danger and hardship and save the nation. Just my guess..

I hope you're wrong, but it is most likely the truth after the 28th July Indian forces will pull out of Dok La. It will be business as usual.

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 25 Jul 2017 21:26

Life is India on average is more difficult and large population are known to live in hardships and party inhospitable conditions, so adjustment during war time will not be as drastic or problematic, also I believe common Indian will think in terms of what Shiv ji has suggested. This can't be expected from rich countries. But in many ways Cheen is like pakis. I don't think cheen will be squeamish if thousands of common citizens are affected as long as the ruling class, and their business interests are untouched.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 25 Jul 2017 21:37

The Chinese have a surplus of mindless drones. They wouldn't mind if a few million perished. Look at the Long March and Great Leap Forward.

Iyersan · Post by **Iyersan** » 25 Jul 2017 21:37

Mort Walker wrote:
shiv wrote: There will be no war. There will be rebellion in the ranks of government. The army will be very angry and embarrassed when the government is forced to call a pull out from Dokala. We will lose the war without firing a shot that way.

Civll defence drills in India are common - but they are carried out by the national disaster management authority. In the 1960s paranoia of the US people either had shelters to go to or were having them built and stocking with Iodine and stuff to last our a nuke war. In India everyone lives out in the open. In general the "sentiment" of aam aadmi, whose brother and son join army is that if my brother is going to die at the frontier I will face difficulty here and die if need be. Death is looked at differently in India. it is only the wealthy hoity toity who want to live and be spared of the horrors of war and the politicians all come from this class.

I think in India people will not be asked to save their asses, they will be asked to face up to danger and hardship and save the nation. Just my guess..
I hope you're wrong, but it is most likely the truth after the 28th July Indian forces will pull out of Dok La. It will be business as usual.

Not aligned. India won't unilaterally pull out. Pride at stake.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 25 Jul 2017 21:50

Mort Walker wrote: I hope you're wrong, but it is most likely the truth after the 28th July Indian forces will pull out of Dok La. It will be business as usual.

I will mark this post with a @@@@ and do a string search for it after July 28th. At least you have been kind enough to make a prediction that is a few days away. Most predictions on BRF are so far in the future that people will be dead before anyone can get back and challenge a failed prediction

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 25 Jul 2017 21:50

Mort Walker wrote:The Chinese have a surplus of mindless drones. They wouldn't mind if a few million perished. Look at the Long March and Great Leap Forward.

You mean Indians value life?

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 25 Jul 2017 21:52

ramana wrote: Shiv, Can you expand on this in an op-ed? I think this needs wider circulation. Something like 'Comparing and contrasting civilian attitudes in US and India to war'

I can certainly give it a shot

khan · Post by **khan** » 25 Jul 2017 22:01

Yaaaawn.

This is getting boring - looks like all the Chinese will do is jawbone.

Khan will go back into hibernation now...

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 25 Jul 2017 22:06

shiv wrote:
Mort Walker wrote:The Chinese have a surplus of mindless drones. They wouldn't mind if a few million perished. Look at the Long March and Great Leap Forward.
You mean Indians value life?

If Chinese life were so cheap internal stability wouldn't rank so high or rather the the highest risk for CCP.

That is not to say China will not takes risks but not for a sliver of land far away from the Han core, that is in no way a threat to its defense. Perhaps the Chinese will risk it for the Korean peninsular.

rajpa · Post by **rajpa** » 25 Jul 2017 22:18

Yawwn.

They did say it themselves that it was easier to move a mountain than the PLA. Guess they are sitting tight.

CRamS · Post by **CRamS** » 25 Jul 2017 22:27

If NaMo is perceived to have caved in to Chincom demands of pulling back from DoKla, his haters will have a field day making a laughing stock out him and BJP, and its good bye BJP in 2019. We will back to Congoon rule (makes my thrown up at the very prospect of that disgusting spectacle). I have a feeling Chincoms in collusion with opposition traitors in India are gaming this in unison. That statement that Doklam is a manifestation of "Hindu nationalism" by CCP is a dead give away. If NaMo is perceived to have "lost" this round, it will be an irreversible political disaster internally. So at the very least, ModiJi/DovalJi will manage the battle pf perception both internally and externally. It will be interesting to watch how they do it.