Neutering & Defanging Chinese Threat (09-08-2014)

[Philip]

IMR has a war scenario to take place in 2018. Gents may remember a couple of years ago ,just before the BJP gained power,that BRF had predicted just such a scenario as there was a window of opportunity for China which would close fast after the expected rout of the Cong. over its mass corruption.
Unfortunately,thanks to babudom still resisting with an iron will,the reforms in the MOD,DRDO,DPSUs,etc.have not materialised according to schedule.
Acutely reqd. infrastructure on the border with Tibet/Nepal,etc.,has been completed for less than half what was expected despite costing the full budget.many critical decisions are still hanging fire and resistance to the pvt. sector entering the def, industry has been stoutly resisted by the in general underperforming parasites,the DPSUs.Even weapon systems cleared by the GOI/MOD and "inducted" into the services have shown patchy performance.The state of readiness,ammo stocks are too well known.

Therefore China has begun to seize the opportunity of the closing window which by 2020 will be much smaller tx to Rafales,more subs,aircraft,tanks,SAMs,BMD systems,etc.,arriving.Pak has also played apart in this scenario,by further descending into the chasm of failed states.Having now succeeded in gobbling up what it wanted int he ICS,neutering the Philippines,restraining Vietnam and Indonesia to an extent,China has seen with dismay the growing Indo-US/Western allies ties grow esp. militarily. Doklam is the first phase.It will continue to prick India at various points along the LAC,acts of deception.From its previous protests,etc.Ar.Pradesh is of the most vital importance to it ,becos it is the springboard from which India and the Dalai Lama/Tibetan diaspora can begin the freeing of Tibet in the future. Here,it has an opportunity of attempting to cut off the NEast from the rest of India. However,it may decide to make two major thrusts into India for two purposes.First,cutting off the Neast/gaining ground in Ar.Pradesh,secondly,linking up with the Pakis in POK/Ladakh/Aksai Chin region,so that J&K can be threatened.

The loss of territory in both sectors would be a catastrophic defeat and loss of face for any Indian govt. At one stroke the humiliation of '71 for the Pakis and the second "lesson" to be taught to India,would be achieved with one military stroke of genius. To muddy the waters further,the PLAN could send in an armada of subs and warships into the IOR,parking them and operating out of Gwadar,Djibouti-now a Chin mil base,and armtwist Sri Lanka into becoming a sanctuary for Chinese merchantmen and warships/subs too from any IN offensive against Chinese "junks" in the IOR. Extensive cyberwarfare will accompany he attacks,plus China using anti-sat missiles to take out India's spy sats cannot be ruled out.

We will be hardpressed in resisting a full-fledged war says the IMR's author,which it assesses will end in a stalemate,but with large-scale losses on both sides,esp. the Chinese.What the GOI should now do is to take immediate measures on a war footing to increase mil assets,weapon systems,stocks of missiles,ammo,etc.,and NOT base its strategy on the MEA's assessment that a war will most likely not take place,which will leave us very unprepared when the blow falls. WE have to plan for the worst as China always uses lies and deception which it thinks is normal behaviour when dealing with "barbarian" nations like India.China is the globe's parasite,a blood-sucking entity ,sucking out the wealth and resources of nations across Asia and Africa in particular. Asininely the West shifted most of its manufacturing to China and is now ruing the cost of doing so-hence the victory of Trump in the US.The GOI has to bring babudom around and our DPSUs ,shipyards,chain of pvt. sector entities supplying critical components,etc.,must work 24/7 so tat we are better prepared when the balloon goes up.

Simultaaneously,there should be eco and dpl. sanctions against China.It will make the world wake up to the danger of the dragon going to war.We need the max amt. of friends on our side.At the moment it appears that openly the Chinese are running all round the world,"educating" nations to their point of view and justification of going to war if need be as India remains an intransigent ,stubborn neighbour squatting on Chines eland instead! Our MEA should send out spl. envoys around the world giving nations the true facts of the matter.Winning the dpl. and propagand awar is as important as the war on the ground.Here the Chinese have started already.

[pankajs]

If I were Chinese I would make a sudden strike just as the voting start for GE 2019.

Sudden strike will cause a general panic as well as catch the GOI off-gurad and thus slow to react/fightback. The Initial Chinese short thrust into India will be spun as a Chinese victory and a loss of face for the *tough no-nonsense" Modi. By the time GOI manages to push the Chinese back or the Chinese withdraw like in 1962 "after teaching India a lesson", the elections will already over and the Chinese would hope Modi led GOI would be out of power.

The *stars* too line up for a major *event* around May 2019 say between 5th to 15th May 2019. The weather on the Tibetan side would be conducive for a sharp short war.

Of course the impact *could* just be the reverse but it is a chance worth taking.

[pankajs]

OTOH, GOI maybe using the Dokalam standoff to move IA into position for just such an adventure by the Chinese from now till 2020 sensing that very danger.

Under normal circumstance such a move might be considered provocative and war mongering. Right now no one in India is questioning GOIs forward deployment policy as destabilizing. Take advantage of Chinese war talk to move men and material into position to defend against any mischief.

[shiv]

Sudden strike will cause a general panic as well as catch the GOI off-gurad and thus slow to react/fightback.

No. It will be a self goal

Wartime emergency will be declared - elections postponed and Modi will remain supreme leader with extaordinary powers over and above what a PM can normally do

[shiv]

[
You are in an illustrious league of individuals with the highest number of Whatsapp/FB views.

Flippin heck..

[Dileep]

There is a collection of old detailed maps from US military available at Univ of Texas. Here is the page where the aksun is.

[ryogi]

Pardon if OT:

I was in China for a few months while on a ship-the chini are insane smokers. They have really cheap, mass-produced cigs that help them get through the days. By shallow observation, a majority of males seem to be smokers.

That must be a factor in evaluating the fitness of the general populace.

[asgkhan]

Will the vaunted Cheeni navy want to take a panga with the Indian navy ? Hope these noodle-addled retards have taken that into consideration.

I am sure that we are dhoti shivering with the linga-dinga-jinga class destroyers/carriers coming to destroy the weak Indian navy.

[Bart S]

WATCH: Xinhua attacks India with racist propaganda video on Doklam border dispute

http://shanghaiist.com/2017/08/17/india-seven-sins.php

This video is a propaganda godsend for us. I hope that our TV channels and social media go to town on it. The more people in India are woken up about the threat from the PRC, the better it is for us as a nation.

I don't have much hopes for the MSM though, my guess is that they are going to ignore it, while printing verbatim what their masters in PRC spew out in Gobar Times.

[chola]

On the racism front, we have to be careful if we are going to "act East," there are lots of chinkies on that side of the world.

Now perhaps I have gone native with a chini-amreekan waifu but it seems to me that chini racism towards Indians is pretty mellow -- probably less than that of Australians. Indians do well in chini-dominated Singapore and Hong Kong but less so in Malaysia under the Malays.

And Dangal would not have made $200 million in Cheen if they were innately racist towards Indians. No Indian film had ever gotten much more than $20M in their overseas take.

Let's kick their arses without resorting to racism because we have a lot of Bollywood to sell them afterwards.

[UlanBatori]

Did anyone look closely at the "supelcals" to see the metal "forging":

Bentrey. Made in China

[Bart S]

On the racism front, we have to be careful if we are going to "act East," there are lots of chinkies on that side of the world.

Now perhaps I have gone native with a chini-amreekan waifu but it seems to me that chini racism towards Indians is pretty mellow -- probably less than that of Australians. Indians do well in chini-dominated Singapore and Hong Kong but less so in Malaysia under the Malays.

And Dangal would not have made $200 million in Cheen if they were innately racist towards Indians. No Indian film had ever gotten much more than $20M in their overseas take.

Let's kick their arses without resorting to racism because we have a lot of Bollywood to sell them afterwards.

Yes, absolutely correct. There is no need to respond with similar racism (though some idiots will inevitably do that). But we should use this opportunity to show up the CPC/PRC govt/PLA as racists and immature/insane barking dogs, we are the victims here after all and should make that loud and clear.

[Chandragupta]

Just because white pakis are top class racists doesn't mean Chinese are not. I have friends living in both HK & SN and all have faced racism in overt & covert forms. Australia is another matter altogether though.

But agree that words like chinkis etc do more harm than good. Even doubting their 'martial ability' is a page out of the Paki book. I am sure Indian Army doesn't think on those lines.

[Javee]

This channel is so funny,

[DrRatnadip]

http://m.indiatoday.in/lite/story/china ... 27599.html

China usurps Northeastern tribe to corner India, prove Arunachal Pradesh as part of Tibet

China's unrelenting efforts to prove Arunachal Pradesh as part of Tibet have continued for years. In its latest efforts, the Chinese government has employed a two-pronged approach: psychological (spreading rumours to intimidate the enemy and break down will); and cultural (assimilating different cultural trends) and media warfare (manipulating what people see and hear).

Mail Today has accessed magazines and websites funded by China to further its claims over Arunachal Pradesh being an 'integral' part of Tibet (i.e. China).

Even as the border crisis in Doklam continues, an article published last month in 'China Travel Guide' magazine ferociously promotes tourism in 'southern Tibet' and 'Ziro' as a tourist destination. Interestingly, Ziro lies very much within Arunachal Pradesh.

[samirdiw]

On whatever front the war be we should use the opportunity to pound the doklam plateau and destroy the effin road built there including little further up in from the tri area.

[Gagan]

There's not much in Dhoklam. The chinese construction was partly bulldozed by the Indian army, and the brave chinese soliders beat a hasty retreat, and are now halfway out of Dhoklam area, but still remain on the plateau.

It is the big huge Chumbi Valley right next to Doklam, where china has a brigade worth of troops located deep in a valley, where they are surrounded on 3 sides by Indian and Bhutanese troops on top of hills. In any border skirmish, these chinese troops will be toast with artillery pounding and direct assaults.

Once India is done, there will be nothing alive in Chumbi Valley

[samirdiw]

Would there be attack plans by the army into Tibet like India/Pak have for each other and China into India and hold territory?

[UlanBatori]

Everything west of 100 deg. E Long. is to be liberated. Start putting together the real estate consortium now.

[Suraj]

I found it hard to believe that stupid video was produced by Xinhua . Their level of public narrative is so dumbed down that they need to do that . I found it hilarious that they simultaneously produced the equivalent of a blackface video and made it English accessible, the end result being that every non Chinese ends up laughing at them . The video is a great example of the Chinese demonstrating their urge to appear polished while being clueless about the innate primitiveness of their thought process and worldview .

Also, thinking about that video more, there's a significant strain of MMSgiri about them . This whole drama makes me realize this is how TSP feels when we do dossier pushing with them . There's a perverse satisfaction just in seeing their impotent rage .

[UlanBatori]

It's a bad sign. The CCP and PLA are getting their population ready for a serious war, with the hate and dehumanizing in progress. Indians should get ready with the shelter-digging, and a total boycott campaign. Face the fact of a war in which a 100,000 desis would die, most in the hinterland, not the usual attitude of "it's the job of the soldiers to die" that unfortunately characterizes large parts of the urbanites (at least pre-Social Media). You can't be a superpower without having gone through that, I guess.

A PPT / document including URLs to all these wonderful items would be a great starting point to alert clueless desis just how bad the chinese propaganda is getting. Then the boycott will take a life of its own.

War looks very possible. Let's face it. While at their imbecility of course.

[pankajs]

We don't even have to do a counter video .. just ensure that it reached all corners of the world. The video is a telling comment on the Chinese mentality. On top of that, instead of fuming the Indians are laughing.

Massive self goal.

[Hari Seldon]

I found it hard to believe that stupid video was produced by Xinhua . Their level of public narrative is so dumbed down that they need to do that . I found it hilarious that they simultaneously produced the equivalent of a blackface video and made it English accessible, the end result being that every non Chinese ends up laughing at them . The video is a great example of the Chinese demonstrating their urge to appear polished while being clueless about the innate primitiveness of their thought process and worldview .

Now, now, I'm sure our folum fliend DavidD can rationally demonstrate how the video is actually a #blow2India more than anything else.

That said, it is indeed stlange why the al(most)mighty cheenise nation should have to pay any attention to 'em dutty SDRE yindooze at all only...

Are they really waiting for an 'accident' to launch a conflagration? I'm sure if they thought they had a clear vantage / advantage, they'd have found some excuse to start hostilities by now...

[sivab]

[UlanBatori]

May be getting prepared. Intended victim may be Eleven for all we know. See reports about "part of the PLA and the people are with them, are demanding punishment of India" etc.

Maybe they see what we see. So far, #2SupelPowel PeeAllSee == Supel Serrel PeeAllSee. They want to change that to #1SupelPowel PeeAllSee == Supel Kirrel PeeAllSee. Best way is to "make an example" of India while running OBOR and CPEC all over Asia. With that none of the Oiropeans nor the Russians will dare challenge them, and DupleeCity will turn isolationist or cut the appeasement deal with them.

[kancha]

[
You are in an illustrious league of individuals with the highest number of Whatsapp/FB views.

Flippin heck..

There is a collection of old detailed maps from US military available at Univ of Texas. Here is the page where the aksun is.

More power to you, ShivJi!

[UlanBatori]

Wonder if Adminullahs will allow a new thread called "Being China's Neighbor". To collect historical data on the experience of all countries, incl. of course India.

[kancha]

FAULT LINES on the FACE of CHINA: 50 REASONS WHY CHINA MAY NEVER BE GREAT.

https://www.amazon.com/FAULT-LINES-FACE ... 1453726489
ordered this book. Thanks for the suggestion

Totally worth it.
They started their chronicling of the Chinese society on their blog - chinabounder.blogspot.com , from which the book followed. The blog has been dormant for last many years, yet a goldmine of information

[Prasad]

Pardon if OT:

I was in China for a few months while on a ship-the chini are insane smokers. They have really cheap, mass-produced cigs that help them get through the days. By shallow observation, a majority of males seem to be smokers.

That must be a factor in evaluating the fitness of the general populace.

This is a massive problem. They banned public smoking and it has reduced but they still smoke wherever and whenever they can. Lifts and garages too. The problem is so acute that they have public numbers that people can call if they find someone smoking in public and they can be fined.

Read this - http://mp.weixin.qq.com/s/harPJ6XHgxwtJSk6CRwSEA

[nam]

Would anyone know of any material on how Chinese managed to reach Tibet in the 50s? and to Xinging?

Right now there is a road & train from East in to Tibet and from Xinging to Tibet rail and road.

I am trying to figure out if a sustained attack on these LoC, could isolate the hans on the roof?

Add to this an attack across LAC forcing the PLA to drain out troops from Lhasa and other regions to contain the Indian offensive. This might technically give an opportunity for the Tibetans to rise up with most of the troops at LAC and no reinforcement coming in.

Ofcourse there is the air element, but this is dependent on airfield being available,

[Suraj]

It's a bad sign. The CCP and PLA are getting their population ready for a serious war, with the hate and dehumanizing in progress.

I have been passing the Chinese version of Globaltimes (huanqiu.cn) through Googal translate for years now. They've been depicting us like this all this while - we just haven't been aware of it because it's in their language. the English versions of Beebuls Daily , Globaltimes etc are completely different sanitized creatures.

About 4 years ago I posted here in a PRC thread asking posters not to read the English versions but instead run the Chinese versions through translator. They're not the same. After the first canisterized Agni V test, they went ballistic (pun intended) on the Chinese language version, with dozens of 'nuke them before they get more dangerous' comments, while the English version was just regurgitated PR response and no comments.

[UlanBatori]

Good to read that. But why the sudden spurt in umbrella-wielding foul-mouthed 媸 types? If it is a spurt, not normal Vancouver haute-Han arrogance?

[UlanBatori]

Would anyone know of any material on how Chinese managed to reach Tibet in the 50s? and to Xinging?

Using cattle trucks and donkeys and mostly on foot. With minimum 30% losses on the way to exhaustion and starvation and brutalization by Political Commissars. This is the only sensible answer to that question. They had neither rail access nor gasoline to spare, they were fighting in Korea and getting their supply lines bombed by the UN, remember? Lot of the troops that they sent to India border were older men, and they suffered HUGE percentage of attrition before a single bullet was fired. I mean not counting the ones executed by firing squad for having a brain or being human.

[UlanBatori]

See:



Incidentally, even THAT is a PR propagandoo film image. See this wonderful article for the background

[UlanBatori]

Continued. Extract the truth from the propaganda in which it is buried:

First, look hard at that picture of exhausted men walking in a snowstorm. Imagine yourself there: old, emaciated, exhausted from 10 years of Japanese occupation and Long March war, and Korean war, and Communist bullying, and starvation, now marching UPHILL to Tibet. and UPHILL to the Himalayas.

I am a peasant soldier, and I am on this march for my family. I refuse to live in poverty any longer, and same as all of the other people on this march, I believe that a classless society where the wealth is shared would be better for China.
The past few weeks have been sheer torture, nonstop walking every day. The hours blur into days and the days blur into weeks. I’m not exactly sure how long we have been walking, but from what I heard, Mr. Otto Braun is no longer leading us. The leadership has gone back into the hands of Mao and Zhu. I personally think that this was a wise decision. Mao did make some mistakes in the past, but he was always a far better leader than the German. I don’t see how we all were supposed to trust the betterment of the country of China in the hand of a foreigner. Everyone in the Communist society knows that Mao Zedong has no ulterior motives, and only wants what is best for the country, as the rest of us do. He believes in equality throughout, sharing the wealth, and a classless society. All 80,000 of us that are following him on the road to Yanan, believe that too.
The day-to-day life is horrible. If I didn’t firmly believe in {the fact that I would be shot in the back} the fact that switching to a Communist government would greatly benefit China as a whole, I wouldn’t be here right now. I have not slept on a proper bed in weeks, and it is cold. There are many people on this march, and I have watched my friends die of starvation and diseases picked up along the way. At least one person dies a day it seems, if not more. All of my loved ones have stayed at home. They too believe in communism, but the little ones are only a few years old, and they most likely would not have survived the journey, so they have stayed in my house with my wife, and my parents. We have never been particularly wealthy, and with ideas like the Land Law, proposed by the Communists, we would be able to own property and benefit in the wealth of others. I am here now fighting for what I believe in. I know that the days will be long, but I am willing to make the effort to push though it, so that my children will not have to grow up in the same poverty I suffered in. I believe in a new China, where the wealth will be shared among, and the power is in the word “we”, not the word “I”. I, along with many others, am marching to Yanan in hope of living this dream.

That was mostly a DOWNHILL march, if I know my hystery and jio-graphy.

[UlanBatori]

Look at this picture carefully. How many would survive weeks of this?


Look at this one: China "civil" war images: Nationalist Officers Inspect Communist Dead

Students being conscripted to serve as cannon fodder

Chinese forces on the move: Korean War

A very few trucks, mostly on foot. They didn't suddenly get all rich and modernized and have much more fit soldiers in 1962 (3 years later) after losing 70% of these soldiers in Korea.

Chinese POWs in Korean War I think most of these did not make it back either.

[UlanBatori]

Chinese invasion of Tibet 1959
May of these soldiers would have been withdrawn to get massacred in Korea, I think.
But they DID bring a HUGE horde. Human wave cannon-fodder.

Chinese standard equipment, Tibet.
So the lesson to learn is that Chinese commies always pushed in a HUGE horde of conscripts who had nowhere to go but forward. They measured "victory" strictly by land occupied, regardless of casualties.

And being human, they fell by the wayside in large numbers and were left to die with total lack of regard for humanity.

So... why did they do a Unilateral Ceasefire and rush back from the lush environs of Tezpur BACK into the brutal Himalayas in such a hurry - in November? Use your reasoning powers. It was the same as Napoleon and Hitler's Unilateral Ceasefire in Russia, and they lost even more percentage of their forces.

[ArjunPandit]

Meanwhile the GoI is tightening the screws silently after mobile co.s is the turn of power sector and pharma sector.

#AcheDin_onKeLiyeKaam1

#AcheDin_onKeLiyeKaam2

[UlanBatori]

China 1964: How they treated their own people.

[UlanBatori]

Better-dressed Politburo darlings: