India Border Watch: Security and Operations

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 19 Jul 2017 16:52

Why is Chinese making such a song and dance about threatening India. Seems to be morre with Paki morale, looks the Paki comments and false news on Indian casualties.

This more looks like a attempt to create a diversion since the Pakis seem to screwed baddly at the LOC.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 665316.cms

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 19 Jul 2017 17:39

Pak media report on China attacking India is fake news: Chinese website
http://www.business-standard.com/articl ... 257_1.html

VinodTK · Post by **VinodTK** » 19 Jul 2017 17:42

Aditya_V wrote:Why is Chinese making such a song and dance about threatening India. Seems to be morre with Paki morale, looks the Paki comments and false news on Indian casualties.

This more looks like a attempt to create a diversion since the Pakis seem to screwed baddly at the LOC.

http://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/indi ... 665316.cms

I am not sure if China would go to this extent for Pakistan. In the past India, Pakistan crises China made verbal statements and did not move any of its assets. I feel this time around it is China acting on behalf of China.

sum · Post by **sum** » 20 Jul 2017 15:00

Read Live mint article which confirms that the 5 hallaled in drowning were a BAT team which was ambushed by SF.
COAS has given go ahead to activively hunt BATs within PoK territory and many further such actions will happen soon

Also, massive fire assult underway and 14 PA KIA as per DFI reliable postors. The Indian HC was summoned again today to protest this new massive assault ongoing as punitive punishment for 2 jawans sniped

Narad · Post by **Narad** » 20 Jul 2017 16:14

sum wrote:Read Live mint article which confirms that the 5 hallaled in drowning were a BAT team

Sir please share the link. Thanks

shaun · Post by **shaun** » 20 Jul 2017 16:18

Narad wrote:
sum wrote:Read Live mint article which confirms that the 5 hallaled in drowning were a BAT team
Sir please share the link. Thanks

http://www.livemint.com/Politics/GX...l ... trike.html

DrRatnadip · Post by **DrRatnadip** » 20 Jul 2017 18:48

shaun wrote:
Narad wrote: Sir please share the link. Thanks

http://www.livemint.com/Politics/GX...l ... trike.html

Page is not available..

salaam · Post by **salaam** » 20 Jul 2017 19:28

DrRatnadip wrote:
shaun wrote:
http://www.livemint.com/Politics/GX...l ... trike.html
Page is not available..

http://www.livemint.com/Politics/GXNeTx ... trike.html

"The Indian Army’s special forces in Kashmir on Wednesday eliminated a Pakistani Border Action Team (BAT) of five enemy soldiers, a government official said"

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » 20 Jul 2017 19:37

Date of the above article is

Last Published: Thu, Jun 01 2017. 05 03 AM IST

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 22 Jul 2017 15:47

For records

http://www.dailyexcelsior.com/another-a ... tyred-loc/

...

Meanwhile, Defence Minister Arun Jaitley said that India has inflicted heavy losses on Pakistan side during cross-LoC shelling and firing in Jammu and Kashmir.

“We have taught Pakistan a lesson. They have been given befitting response. There have been massive losses on Pakistan side. I can’t tell everything here,” Jaitley said in the Parliament while replying to members’ concerned.

“Pakistan has been taught such a lesson, which was never given in the history,” he said.

Jaitley’s statement came close on heels of the reports that several Pakistan army jawans were killed and injured while their bunkers and posts were destroyed in retaliatory action undertaken by the Indian Army during past few days in Nowshera and Manjakote sectors of Rajouri district and Balakote, Mendhar, Sabjian and Shahpur sectors of Poonch district.
India lost three Army soldiers and a civilian in the shelling this week.

There have been reports that nine posts and bunkers of Pakistan army were completely decimated in retaliatory action undertaken by the Indian troops in the two border districts of Rajouri and Poonch.

...

Pakistan's advantage is that it has in place full media censure on their casualties. Thanks to Social Media some stuff is leaking out but the situation is not too different from the way it was in 90s.

Its a very peculiar strategy, which in a sense works for them:

1. Deny or outright lie about your losses.
2. Believe your own lies to be the truth.

Thus, never learn any lessons from it and continue the way things are.

pandyan · Post by **pandyan** » 24 Jul 2017 04:41

Excellent talk by Col Lalit Rai and great background on history, people, topography of Jammu & Kashmir. Watched this for the first time.
Colonel Lalit Rai’s sterling account of the role played by his battalion in the icy heights of Khalubar, coupled with first hand accounts of daring, death and triumph moved the 1200+ audience to tears. It was particularly poignant that General Thimayya had 50 years earlier in 1949 played an equally stellar role in Kargil.

Posting here because of relevance to recent discussions on hardship (With examples) faced by armed forces. His speech starts around 38 minutes.

Rajesh_MR · Post by **Rajesh_MR** » 24 Jul 2017 05:37

^^^ Listened to Col Lalit Rai at work few months ago at work. Only a fauji can narrate life, valor and death as a matter of fact

pandyan · Post by **pandyan** » 24 Jul 2017 06:11

+1.

Thanks to @Yusufdfi for tweeting about this speech.

Bishwa · Post by **Bishwa** » 25 Jul 2017 06:36

https://www.facebook.com/shatrujeet009/ ... =3&theater

Shatrujeet posted this pic of the pakistani army truck that was shot and fell into the Neelam/Kishenganga river resulting in 4 or 5 casualties. It is a Hino truck

Kashi · Post by **Kashi** » 25 Jul 2017 08:08

^^A truck that size fell into a swollen river and only 5 casualties? Usually it carries more troops doesn't it?

Wonder if Bakis are upto their usual mischief and under-reporting the numbers.

Rahul M · Post by **Rahul M** » 25 Jul 2017 08:43

must be officers. the rest don't matter to the TFTA RAPE afsars of TSPA.

sum · Post by **sum** » 25 Jul 2017 09:39

^^ As per the Daily excelsior report, it was a BAT team. So the other folks in the truck might be "nonstate actors" and hence, not counted, only the officers/SSG folks would get that honour.

Bala Vignesh · Post by **Bala Vignesh** » 25 Jul 2017 13:34

Is it just me or does it look very similar to our stallion??

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 25 Jul 2017 13:46

It is just you, yes Stallion has some o the Features but shape of the cabin , the drive rod is in the center not the side etc are different. The other thing is the Pakis don't have the technological ability to manufacture thier own vehicle or design thier own small arms but talk of ready to deploy CM's and BM's at short notice.

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 25 Jul 2017 23:21

Aditya_V wrote:It is just you, yes Stallion has some o the Features but shape of the cabin , the drive rod is in the center not the side etc are different. The other thing is the Pakis don't have the technological ability to manufacture thier own vehicle or design thier own small arms but talk of ready to deploy CM's and BM's at short notice.

Havent checked but aren't Hino and Stallion british Leyland products? Maybe that explains common design heritage.

Bart S · Post by **Bart S** » 26 Jul 2017 01:22

Hino is Japanese and has nothing to do with British Leyland which is now defunct and Leyland Trucks which is basically an assembly operation for DAF/Paccar. Ashok Leyland's stallion is their own design, the only link with Hino is that they used to license some engines from Hino a while back.

But yes, most trucks around the world look rather similar from a distance, the pimped out American 18-wheelers (Peterbilt etc) probably the only exception

Vivek Kumar · Post by **Vivek Kumar** » 30 Jul 2017 22:50

Kind of video that'll warm cockles of a Rakshak's heart. Talking to pakis in a language they understand. Seems somewhere along LoC. No dearth of ammunition there, you see

https://www.facebook.com/CanadaPunjab.C ... 769694371/

DrRatnadip · Post by **DrRatnadip** » 12 Aug 2017 23:09

http://m.timesofindia.com/india/one-jaw ... 036261.cms

One jawan martyred, another injured as Pakistan violates ceasefire in Poonch

NEW DELHI: An Army soldier was martyred while another was critically injured as Pakistan violated ceasefire on Saturday by shelling mortars and firing on forward posts along the LoC in Poonch district of Jammu and Kashmir.
The Indian Army retaliated strongly to the ceasefire violation.
"One jawan was martyred, and another one was critically injured during ceasefire violations by Pakistani troops," a senior Army official said.

DrRatnadip · Post by **DrRatnadip** » 12 Aug 2017 23:12

Vivek Kumar wrote:Kind of video that'll warm cockles of a Rakshak's heart. Talking to pakis in a language they understand. Seems somewhere along LoC. No dearth of ammunition there, you see

https://www.facebook.com/CanadaPunjab.C ... 769694371/

Thanks for posting that video..I wish we could see pakis running , hiding and getting 72 virgins due to this rain of fire..

DrRatnadip · Post by **DrRatnadip** » 14 Aug 2017 14:54

http://m.economictimes.com/news/defence ... 044263.cms

Israel fence systems, quick response team at Pakistan borders: BSF DG

NEW DELHI: India is deploying along its volatile border with Pakistan a smart Israel-developed fencing system having a 'quick response team' mechanism which strikes when the CCTV-powered control room detects an infiltration attempt.

The BSF is implementing an ambitious project called the comprehensive integrated border management system (CIBMS) as part of the Narendra Modi government's plan to completely seal the Indo-Pak and India-Bangladesh borders in the next few years.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 14 Aug 2017 15:29

looks like a well run 81mm mortar crew can release one round every 3 seconds per tube. thats nearly 20 a minute. they can quickly plaster an area

Gaur · Post by **Gaur** » 14 Aug 2017 17:32

Vivek Kumar wrote:Kind of video that'll warm cockles of a Rakshak's heart. Talking to pakis in a language they understand. Seems somewhere along LoC. No dearth of ammunition there, you see

https://www.facebook.com/CanadaPunjab.C ... 769694371/

Doesn't look like Kashmir to me. Looks more like Artillery School at Deolali, Maharashtra.

nam · Post by **nam** » 14 Aug 2017 17:41

If we could use this amount of rounds in training, why do we keep hearing about ammo shortages?

pankajs · Post by **pankajs** » 15 Aug 2017 19:03

Nitin A. Gokhale‏Verified account @nitingokhale Aug 14

Sharing the cover of my latest book. For all you wanted to know about surgical strikes, the Pathankot Ops, India's stand in Chumar and more!

https://twitter.com/nitingokhale [Don't know how much of an insider he is but have seen photos of him addressing Forces on Strategic issues]
- Insider account of all major national security and foreign policy decisions. Also all you wanted to know what's happening in space & cyber
- All you wanted to know about surgical strikes: How they were planned and executed. All your queries could be answered here. Coming soon
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Vivek Kumar · Post by **Vivek Kumar** » 28 Aug 2017 02:24

Fully SFW if you are from Punjab!

No ammunition shortage. "Leak ni honi chahidi."

https://www.facebook.com/shatrujeet009/ ... 819072822/

sanjaykumar · Post by **sanjaykumar** » 28 Aug 2017 03:31

Hehehe

Gagan · Post by **Gagan** » 28 Aug 2017 04:29

Those guys are sitting on a mountain of spent shell casings. They've been at it the whole night it seems

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 28 Aug 2017 05:32

Vivek Kumar wrote:Fully SFW if you are from Punjab! No ammunition shortage. "Leak ni honi chahidi."

https://www.facebook.com/shatrujeet009/ ... 819072822/

This is Khalsa transmitting to Viktor Kilo
I can confirm the above Video is fully SFW if you are Punjabi or NOT.

Bole So Nihaal !!

Aditya_V · Post by **Aditya_V** » 15 Sep 2017 12:40

Very sad such incidents continue

BSF jawan killed in ceasefire violation by Pakistan in J&K, 5th such violation in 6 days

I hope we increase our artillery and motors, L-70 guns etc.

Thinking aloud, how useful would Navy Ak-630 cannons or Retiring Mig 27 6 * 30mm Gatling guns be useful in Loc. If we can get these to our forward posts and target anything within line of sight 5 or 6 KM to shut these guys up.

Prem Kumar · Post by **Prem Kumar** » 15 Sep 2017 16:57

DrRatnadip wrote:http://m.economictimes.com/news/defence ... 044263.cms

Israel fence systems, quick response team at Pakistan borders: BSF DG

While this is undoubtedly great news, humans (yes even Pakis) are generally smarter than machines. I wouldn't be surprised if they purposefully trigger an alarm, wait for our QRT to arrive while laying wait in ambush

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 15 Sep 2017 23:14

~~This video is from some exercise it seems. Doesnt seem to be border~~

Wrong video. sorry.

manjgu · Post by **manjgu** » 16 Sep 2017 06:47

come on jamwal...they are perched on a high ledge..with pakis down below.., the setting of the vid is not of a excercise..... looks right on the LOC ... in deep mountains.

Vidur · Post by **Vidur** » 16 Sep 2017 14:56

yes thats what it looks like.

This is a good illustration of a point I made earlier about the systematic issues in our defence set up. Even on a forum like this old posters with an interest in the topic, and national security at heart, cannot make out obvious things like this is clearly an operation not an excercise - even though the soldier says he has fired lots of rounds and hurt the enemy.

So its unfair to expect a IAS officer with no experience and perhaps no interest in defence issues to come up a very steep learning curve and make critical decisions where deep expertise and interest is essential.

jamwal · Post by **jamwal** » 16 Sep 2017 21:23

Oops, my mistake. I was browsing on phone and had loaded some other video by mistake. Checked it again now and it does seem to be from LoC , not some exercise. The one I watched earlier was 2-3 minutes long, certainly not this one with soldiers talking to the camera.

Line from video

"fired two truck full ammunition in the night."

Rest somewhat NSFW.

But he also says "leak ni honi chayedi"

Aditya G · Post by **Aditya G** » 17 Sep 2017 01:34

Nice tribute to BSF bordermen at Bangladesh border.

PS: BSF has a rather well equipped and large water wing.

http://www.governancenow.com/views/colu ... -a-trooper

A day in the life of a trooper
All the action from the first-ever India-Bangladesh joint drill in the riverine borders of the Sundarbans

yogesh
Yogesh Rajput | March 30, 2016 | (Photo: Courtesy BSF)

#Indo-Bangladesh Ties #Sundarbans #Border Guard Bangladesh #Border Security Force #BSF #Bangladesh #Drill #CRPF #ITBP

In March this year, the Indian government banned Phensedyl (a cough syrup) along with over 300 other drugs. Though the move came as a major setback for a number of pharmaceuticals, it happened to be a long-pending welcome step towards strengthening India-Bangladesh relations.

Phensedyl was already banned in Bangladesh but continued to be sold in India. The medicine contains an opiate, named codeine, and was a major form of substance abuse among addicts. As its trafficking into Bangladesh was becoming a major worry for security forces of both sides, Bangladesh had been long urging its neighbour to put a ban on the cough syrup.

Another effort to enhance cooperation between the two countries was made in the same month. A first-ever joint drill – Sundarbans Maitri – was conducted by the Border Security Force (BSF) and the Border Guard Bangladesh (BGB) to sanitise the international border (IB) of the Sundarbans for which we were offered to be audience.

We reached Kolkata, a night before the drill, from where IB was to be nearly a four-hour journey. But first, we had to make a stop at the nearby BSF officers’ mess.

A sturdy officer, in a causal shirt and similar trousers, welcomed us. A handshake with him confirmed his association with the BSF. He briefed us about the scheduled drill and answered our queries. The next day was to start early as we had to cover both land and water to reach IB. So we had a quick dinner and a quicker breakfast.

The officer, with the firm grip, had now gone into his green fatigue. A few minutes after 7 am, a call was made to get moving.
The initial road led us through shanties, dumping grounds, newly-built tall buildings and many others underway, and of course (being Kolkata) playgrounds with youngsters playing football. After a while, only stretches of farm beds ran on either side of the road. Finally after a two-hour travel, our vehicle stopped at Dhamakhali, next to the Kolagachia river. From here we had to take a speedboat.

A short walk through a bustling market led to the bank where four speedboats were lined up. We carefully stepped onto the first and reached the third (our designated ride) by jumping and stumbling.

We put on our life jackets and the boat took off. As the twin propellers at the stern (back of the boat) swayed to turn it in desired directions, the boat left behind a gush of water-stream that subsequently forked at the other end.

This was a different terrain. It was not land, where movement can either be on foot or in a vehicle, but water where only a boat comes handy and swimming (to reach the destination) is not a viable option. Thus, challenges for a paramilitary force such as BSF can be many.

Normally, a speedboat can reach up to a speed of 100 km/h. We did not opt to move close to the driver to peep at the speedometer and disturb him. Thus, let us assume that the boat was moving close to hundred. But slowly we realised it no longer was. As said, challenges for BSF can be many and can arrive anytime, anywhere, even inside a boat.

A speedboat usually has two drivers who take turns at the wheel. There is no seat for them but a wooden plank to stand on. As the boat continued to sail at a slower pace, a co-driver went to the stern where one of the propellers was struggling to move the boat forward. With one foot out of the boat, he removed the cover panel of the motor above the weary propeller. Apparently, a filter was unable to push oil into the motor. The driver tried fixing the problem for the next 20 minutes, but in vain. The boat had now started giving signs of a breakdown. The motors were now switched off and we stood in the middle of the muddy river like helpless persons left alone on an unknown planet. We though managed to reach near the bank and found some locals for help.

Meanwhile, an officer present in the boat tried calling up his senior at IB to inform him about the situation. But he couldn’t find any signal – another challenge. After repeated failed attempts, we offered our phone which had luckily caught the network. “Sir, our boat has stopped working…”

A woman, clad in a mud-washed printed saree, came near our immobile boat to offer us drinking water amidst the enormous water body surrounding us. The kids watched us in amazement as we involuntarily became their source of entertainment. As we waited for things to happen, a bare-chested man clicked our photograph in his mobile phone – in that rare moment, we, the journalists, had become the subject of a report.

The officer concluded the conversation with his senior and started blaming the drivers for our state. “Both of you are newbies, at least one driver should have been experienced. The motor could have been fixed then.” A few more recurring attacks and the self-esteem of a co-driver got hit; he got up and once again made an attempt to fix the engine. This time, however, he took out a pen and pushed its nib onto some parts of the motor. And voila! the motor started. The pen, yet again, proved to be mightier than the sword! No wonder BSF gives importance to pens. The uniform of BSF personnel has special pockets, on the arms, to stick pens in. Even the BSF vehicle we were travelling in had small pockets specially stitched on the back of the seat covers to hold pens. “It is convenient,” Sandeep Salunke, inspector general, South Bengal Frontier, BSF, had later told us when we showed curiosity.

With the boat back in its habitual speed, we soon reached the international border that passes through a channel of rivers named Kalindi, Ichamati, Raimangal and Haribhanga. The drill had started. The BSF had received secret information that a cargo ship, with criminal elements, was to pass through the border. Acting on the tip-off, both Indian and Bangladeshi patrolling boats carrying heavily armed personnel beset the cargo ship, forcing it to a halt. As the boats revolved around the nearly half a kilometre long ship, alert forces of both the countries inspected it for any illegal material. The drill, though aimed towards a worthy cause, looked rather ceremonial.

Onboard India’s floating border outpost, Salunke and his Bangladeshi counterpart Colonel Khandekar Farid Hassan told us more about the initiative. “You see, this is an international trade route, merchant ships keep passing through every now and then. So there can be multiple ways to pass illegal material or goods to the other side. The aim of the exercise, thus, is to share information and check any sort of criminal element,” said Salunke.

The riverine border running over 1,100 km is porous – cattle, Phensedyl and fake currency have passed through it many times. Earlier, in the boat, an officer had told us about the limitations in keeping a blanket check on the border. “The length of the border itself is a challenge. During my initial posting at IB, cattle used to be trafficked from the Indian side and fake currency from Bangladesh. The rate of occurrence has dropped though,” he said. As per Salunke, there has been a drop of 60-70 percent in cattle smuggling over the past few years. He added that smuggling usually takes place at night, making it all the more difficult to check.

Though there have been reports of possible security threat from terror modules like the Jamaat-ul-Mujahideen Bangladesh (suspected members of the organisation were arrested in March from West Bengal in connection with the 2014 Burdwan blast case), Farid denied any threat of terror organisations. “As of now, we do not have any information that terrorists may be hiding in the Sundarbans area.” Salunke added that the usual criminal activities they encounter are of kidnapping of fishermen and their families.

A swarm of bees kept bugging us at regular intervals as we tried to shoo them away – another challenge of the terrain.

Salunke explained the number of problems BSF personnel face on daily basis. “It is difficult to communicate in this area. Mobile signals are weak and there is little human presence. In such a scenario, troops are almost cut-off from their families. Availability of drinking water is another problem.”

It was late afternoon and we needed to head back. Midway, we were to stop at BSF barracks for lunch.

We got down onto a speedboat and expected to reach land in an hour. However, an hour later we realised we had lost the way. The driver turned the boat back in a hope of finding the destination. But another 20 minutes later, we were still stuck somewhere in the middle of some river. The driver this time turned the boat in a different direction, again in vain. We finally asked some locals for directions after stopping our vehicle near a river bank, and moved on. The challenges, indeed, are many.

At the staff barracks, the lunch had been laid out. But before we could fill our deep-down empty stomachs, we asked an officer for water to wash hands. He took us towards a plastic barrel filled with water. We were disheartened to see the plight of these men who ensure our safety by themselves living in the most difficult of terrains and fighting the enemy; the water could have easily won the award for the ‘best breeding ground for mosquitos’. The officer then took out water, from a nearby pond, which was still usable.

During lunch, an officer came and sat beside us. He asked us about the current trend in national and other politics, and we answered to the best of our knowledge. We asked the officer, who has been in service for nearly 20 years, what it is like to work for the force. Though proud, he brought up some grievances. A major one is the differential treatment meted out to the central armed police forces (CAPF) compared to the defence forces.

This, however, is not new. It has often been debated as to why paramilitary forces (such as CRPF, BSF, ITBP) are not given status and facilities equal to those of the defence forces (army, navy, air force), even when CAPF personnel are deputed in equally difficult conditions and terrains as defence personnel. A BSF jawan, too, fights the enemy in extreme climatic conditions, just like an army jawan. A BSF jawan, too, discharges his duty in rescue and relief operations, just like an army jawan. Yet, he, the BSF jawan, is never honoured with the status of martyrdom in case he is killed while performing duty. The seventh pay commission finally took note of this inequality and in its report last year recommended that in case of death in the line of duty, CAPF personnel too should be accorded martyr status.

Still, the definition of paramilitary (i.e., organised similarly to military) holds true only theoretically. The BSF, a paramilitary force, does not get a special pay on the lines of military service pay (received by defence forces) – a demand which was rejected by the latest pay commission, as it placed CAPF personnel in the same category as that of civil employees.

The officer, sitting next to us, referred to another issue normally talked about within the force. The bosses – officers holding senior positions usually of IG rank and above – come from the IPS cadre. This not only makes opportunities of promotion for junior officers slim, but a sense of complete understanding among senior officers about the force, its working and the condition of personnel remains missing too.

Moreover, it makes an IPS officer somewhat of an outsider. In the past two decades of his service, the officer said he had only climbed a single rank.

With dusk setting in, it was time for us to leave. We came to witness the joint drill but took back with us a lot more. We thanked the officers for their hospitality and in return doubled up our respect for them.

yogesh@governancenow.com

(The article appears in the April 1-15, 2016 issue)