Small Arms Thread

Locked
Thakur_B
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2404
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by Thakur_B »

Pratyush wrote:Interesting that corner shot is also present and accounted for. This means that inspite of a lot of clamour of forces being starved if basic weapons, the right weapons for the job are reaching the men.
THe cornershot is the original Israeli one, not the one made by ARDE.

MHA has been more active than the MoD in procurement of small arms.
ITBP fielded Arsenal UBGLs on INSAS and AKMs before army inducted ARDE's UBGL and also purchased ARDE UBGL when it became available.
CRPF and CISF field Glocks while even Para SF haven't been able to replace their Hi-powers despite trying.
CRPF fielded kevlar helmets before Army.
X95, MP5 and MX4 have largely replaced sterling in frontline duty in BSF, ITBP, CRPF and CISF.

MHA procurement makes MoD procurement look like all fart and no sh*t.
shaun
BRFite
Posts: 1385
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by shaun »

Pratyush wrote:Interesting that corner shot is also present and accounted for. This means that inspite of a lot of clamour of forces being starved if basic weapons, the right weapons for the job are reaching the men.

P'S what is the rectangular device that's mounted on the tripod in the background.
May be a BFSR but box shaped thing with handle might be cover..
Thakur_B
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2404
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by Thakur_B »

^^ It seems much smaller than BEL BFSR.
shaun
BRFite
Posts: 1385
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by shaun »

Thakur_B wrote:^^ It seems much smaller than BEL BFSR.
yup right ...then must be some ground terminal for communication.
Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 20773
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by Karan M »

Karan M
Forum Moderator
Posts: 20773
Joined: 19 Mar 2010 00:58

Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by Karan M »

Thakur_B
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2404
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by Thakur_B »

Image

Awesome. JVPC/Milaap/MSMC.
Thakur_B
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2404
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by Thakur_B »

http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/mode ... 42902.html

Chhatisgarh police becomes the first customer of JVPC/Milaap/MSMC ordering 640 units. MP police is the next potential customer.
Thakur_B
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2404
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by Thakur_B »

INSAS Excalibur:

Image



Image



Image


It appears that INSAS Excalibur has been delivered in larger numbers than previously estimated. I would say given the frequency with which it shows up nowadays, there should be at least ~~10,000 of these in service.
srin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2509
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:13

Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by srin »

Good to see the MSMC doing well. For years, the only reference was the Call of Duty game.
But, given that OFB manufactures Zittara (which seems to be a copy of Micro TAR) and which also fires the MINSAS, how do they compare ?
nash
BRFite
Posts: 946
Joined: 08 Aug 2008 16:48

Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by nash »

Thakur_B
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2404
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by Thakur_B »

Apparently ITBP has bit the bullet on Ghatak AKM and placed orders for it.
jamwal
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 5727
Joined: 19 Feb 2008 21:28
Location: Somewhere Else
Contact:

Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by jamwal »

Thakur_B wrote:
Pratyush wrote:Interesting that corner shot is also present and accounted for. This means that inspite of a lot of clamour of forces being starved if basic weapons, the right weapons for the job are reaching the men.
THe cornershot is the original Israeli one, not the one made by ARDE.

MHA has been more active than the MoD in procurement of small arms.
ITBP fielded Arsenal UBGLs on INSAS and AKMs before army inducted ARDE's UBGL and also purchased ARDE UBGL when it became available.
CRPF and CISF field Glocks while even Para SF haven't been able to replace their Hi-powers despite trying.
CRPF fielded kevlar helmets before Army.
X95, MP5 and MX4 have largely replaced sterling in frontline duty in BSF, ITBP, CRPF and CISF.

MHA procurement makes MoD procurement look like all fart and no sh*t.
Regarding ITBP, BSF , CRPF and CISF: Just my personal observations from my trips to some border areas and other places where these forces are deployed.
Sterling is in service even in highly sensitive areas like in Srinagar and nearby towns. BSF do have have a few MX4 every now and then. But majority of CRPF troops (unless they have INSAS) have old Sterlings and a very small minority have Tavor derivatives. CISF usually have INSAS, AKs and MP5s. Never seen MP5 these with other three forces.


CRPF troops deployed in Kashmir towns and villages have fairly good anti-riot gear like armour, transparent shields, tear gas launchers, pellet guns and helmets. But not so sure about modern helmets.
ITBP near Indo - Tibet border mostly have INSAS.
Haven't had the chance to see RR troops with full battle gear in a long time but they look really intimidating while on patrols or missions.

There are a lot of black INSAS visible, but never had the chance to check if they are Ghatak or Excalibur. INSAS LMG with bipod is sighted every now and then on small vehicles or trucks.

I had the chance to see BSF battalion setting up a camp near Pahalgam just before Amarnath yatra started earlier this year. They have a pretty good selection of firearms. Didn't want to push my luck taking pictures.
Last edited by jamwal on 12 Sep 2017 20:48, edited 1 time in total.
rkhanna
BRFite
Posts: 1171
Joined: 02 Jul 2006 02:35

Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by rkhanna »

[quote][[quote="Thakur_B"]Image

Imagine this puppy with a silenser
jamwal
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 5727
Joined: 19 Feb 2008 21:28
Location: Somewhere Else
Contact:

Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by jamwal »

What is this "wire" on sight ?
Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12195
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by Pratyush »

Switch for the sight or the lazer
Manish_P
BRF Oldie
Posts: 5414
Joined: 25 Mar 2010 17:34

Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by Manish_P »

Wire is for power to the laser module of the ITL MARS sight
Kakarat
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2225
Joined: 26 Jan 2005 13:59

Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by Kakarat »

Sitharaman's daily meetings with service chiefs give momentum to stalled defence projects
Recently, in one of the meetings, the army raised the issue of its tender for procuring around 4,450 Light Machine Guns getting retracted as it was found to be a single vendor case, where Israeli firm IWI was the only company found fit during the trials.
...
To offer a solution to the force, the DRDO has offered to provide LMG developed by it on its own for the army, which has apprehensions that its procurement may get delayed.

However, the defence minister and the army asked the DRDO to provide the indigenously developed LMG within 30 days for extensive trials before it could be inducted officially.
suryag
Forum Moderator
Posts: 4041
Joined: 11 Jan 2009 00:14

Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by suryag »

^^^ From the link above
The minister has also decided to hold meetings of the Defence Acquisiton Council, the highest decision making body on defence procurement, every fortnight.
MP used to run it every month ?
Kakarat
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2225
Joined: 26 Jan 2005 13:59

Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by Kakarat »

Saurav Jha‏ @SJha1618
The indigenously developed ARDE light machine gun has a got a second wind with the import tender getting scrapped.
Yagnasri
BRF Oldie
Posts: 10390
Joined: 29 May 2007 18:03

Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by Yagnasri »

If she is meeting service cheifs on daily basis they lot of backend burning will be there for baboons of MoD. Now services also do not have any excuse if they are in a position to convince her about their requirements. Hope she read what is written here about LCA and Arjun.
Thakur_B
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2404
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by Thakur_B »

And we were wondering where did the ARDE's LMG go.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by ramana »

Thakur_B, This ARDE LMG what caliber is it 5.56 mm or 7.62 mm?
Thakur_B
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2404
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by Thakur_B »

7.62 NATO Ramana. Still not known whether belt / magazine fed.
shiv
BRF Oldie
Posts: 34982
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30
Location: Pindliyon ka Gooda

Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by shiv »

Kakarat wrote:Saurav Jha‏ @SJha1618
The indigenously developed ARDE light machine gun has a got a second wind with the import tender getting scrapped.
OT comment.

Mainstream journalists are able to take scathing criticism and almost never block anyone because they want their reports ot be read. They may mute the critic but the critic or oiseaule will always be able to read the report. Shekhar Gupta, Sagarika Ghose, Sardesai etc fall into this category. They remain visible to everyone because of this.

There is another bunch who are very sensitive and simply block people and thereby reduce their own visibility. Saurav Jha blocked me for reasons unknown to me so I cannot see his Tweets. Not that I am bothered. If any news in genuine - it will appear from multiple sources. All this bullshit of "exclusive" and "Only I am reporting this" is to grab eyeballs.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by ramana »

Or just eye is superficial.

Thakur_B Great.
Let's look around.
ks_sachin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2906
Joined: 24 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: Sydney

Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by ks_sachin »

Thakur_B wrote:Image
Image
OFB 7.62 mm GPMG. Lighter variant of fn mag.
Is this the one Thakur_B?
ks_sachin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2906
Joined: 24 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: Sydney

Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by ks_sachin »

Thakur_B wrote:A better look at the lighter fn-mag derived gpmg.
Image
Image
_________________


MSMC/JVPC/Milaap looks nicely done. Robust with good finish. From the people who have been to the exhibition, it appears that the MSMC/JVPC/Milaap shall be chambered in 9 mm soon, instead of 5.56x30 MINSAS ammunition.
Image
Image
Image
___________________________________

Another promising design that appears to be headed nowhere. Around 250 AAR/MCIWS prototypes have been made by OFB and about 25000 rounds fired on an average from them.
Image
Image
Image
___________________________

OFB has also presented two new rifles. One appears to be an AK-103 rip off, the other one, judging by the size of magwell appears to be INSAS Mk-1C derivative chambered in 7.62x51. Initially the rumour was rife that the AKM derivative is the actual OFB gun chambered in 7.62x51 but comparing the size of magwell, it appears that the INSAS derivative may be the one chambered in 7.62 NATO.
Image
AK-103 clone in the center, the new rifle on the right being held in hand.
Image
Image
Image

^^ The magazine wells are clearly visible, indicating that the new OFB INSAS derivative is chambered in 7.62 NATO. Here is the 5.56 INSAS Mk-1c prototype for comparison. Notice the difference in barrel profile compared to AKM, flash suppressor/ muzzle brake, overall length of the rifle.
Image
The top one?
jamwal
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 5727
Joined: 19 Feb 2008 21:28
Location: Somewhere Else
Contact:

Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by jamwal »

Small arms factory, Kanpur, 7.62 mm belt fed machine gun. Check blue poster
ks_sachin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2906
Joined: 24 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: Sydney

Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by ks_sachin »

Os is it OFB or is it ARDE?
jamwal
BR Mainsite Crew
Posts: 5727
Joined: 19 Feb 2008 21:28
Location: Somewhere Else
Contact:

Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by jamwal »

Takes 5 seconds to get the result on google http://ofb.gov.in/units/index.php?unit=saf
ks_sachin
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2906
Joined: 24 Jun 2000 11:31
Location: Sydney

Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by ks_sachin »

jamwal wrote:Takes 5 seconds to get the result on google http://ofb.gov.in/units/index.php?unit=saf
I don't need googol for that. Know what is in Kanpur vs what is in Pune. Is LMG by OFBor DRDO because Jha says ARDE.
ramana
Forum Moderator
Posts: 59773
Joined: 01 Jan 1970 05:30

Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by ramana »

ks_sachin wrote:
jamwal wrote:Takes 5 seconds to get the result on google http://ofb.gov.in/units/index.php?unit=saf
I don't need googol for that. Know what is in Kanpur vs what is in Pune. Is LMG by OFBor DRDO because Jha says ARDE.
The OFB Kanpur version is the full MG not LMG.

So its the ARDE developed LMG. Its possibly made at OFB Kanpur based on the poster.

Its a belt fed 7.62 mm x 51 NATO cartridge model.
VinodTK
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2982
Joined: 18 Jun 2000 11:31

Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by VinodTK »

Sitharaman's daily meetings with service chiefs give momentum to stalled defence projects
Defence Minister Nirmala Sitharaman's daily meetings with the three service chiefs and defence secretary have started yielding results as they have started taking decisions to push the stalled projects and proposals of the armed forces.
Recently, in one of the meetings, the army raised the issue of its tender for procuring around 4,450 Light Machine Guns getting retracted as it was found to be a single vendor case, where Israeli firm IWI was the only company found fit during the trials.
Defence ministry procurement procedures discourage acquisition in cases where only one firm is in the fray for offering product.
After the tender was scrapped, the army put across in the meeting that the lack of these machine guns was hampering its operational preparedness, sources told Mail Today.
To offer a solution to the force, the DRDO has offered to provide LMG developed by it on its own for the army, which has apprehensions that its procurement may get delayed.
However, the defence minister and the army asked the DRDO to provide the indigenously developed LMG within 30 days for extensive trials before it could be inducted officially. I hope people will be held responsible for the dates
:
:
:
Thakur_B
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2404
Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14

Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by Thakur_B »

ks_sachin wrote:
Thakur_B wrote:Image
Image
OFB 7.62 mm GPMG. Lighter variant of fn mag.
Is this the one Thakur_B?

That is modernised fn mag from ofb. Not confirmed whether related to ARDE project.
Pratyush
BRF Oldie
Posts: 12195
Joined: 05 Mar 2010 15:13

Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by Pratyush »

Can any one develop LMG in 30 days flat or that is a typo.

Second question why is the INSAS LMG not provided with a drum magazine. That will increase sustained fie rates.
rkhanna
BRFite
Posts: 1171
Joined: 02 Jul 2006 02:35

Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by rkhanna »

>>Second question why is the INSAS LMG not provided with a drum magazine. That will increase sustained fie rates.
<<

Think Magazines are a backward calculation of Army ORBAT of what the firepower of a Platoon needs to be.
Kakarat
BRF Oldie
Posts: 2225
Joined: 26 Jan 2005 13:59

Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by Kakarat »

Pratyush wrote:Can any one develop LMG in 30 days flat or that is a typo.

Second question why is the INSAS LMG not provided with a drum magazine. That will increase sustained fie rates.
From the article it seems ARDE LMG was already in advanced stages of development and was not considered in favor of Import considering urgency of requirement

From comments in sandeep unnithan's videos on OFB guns it seems a belt feed INSAS LMG is also under development
prasan
BRFite -Trainee
Posts: 86
Joined: 15 Aug 2016 19:36

Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by prasan »

JVPC full auto

Aditya G
BRF Oldie
Posts: 3565
Joined: 19 Feb 2002 12:31
Contact:

Re: Small Arms Thread

Post by Aditya G »

IMHO this is the LMG in question. FN MAG derivatives are in service with US as well:

Image
Thakur_B wrote:
ks_sachin wrote: Is this the one Thakur_B?

That is modernised fn mag from ofb. Not confirmed whether related to ARDE project.
Locked