Honestly, after continuously reading about very many things, I am getting a feeling of a government slowly losing the upper hand/control. And this is 1 1/2 years before the next elections. I am seeing things fraying at the edges (these kind of court cases, frequent Railway accidents etc. etc.).Karthik S wrote:Is it deliberate or plain stupidity from the govt like shaadi shagun program?
The Rohingya Menace
Re: The Rohingya Menace
Re: The Rohingya Menace
That is exactly why those things are written, Sachin ji. For us to read, and get this feeling. A broad-based undermining of mass motivation for 2019 is precisely the intention. With that gone, vast funds from la familia's coffers plus activation of the reliable identity-based votebanks will do the rest.Sachin wrote: Honestly, after continuously reading about very many things, I am getting a feeling of a government slowly losing the upper hand/control. And this is 1 1/2 years before the next elections. I am seeing things fraying at the edges (these kind of court cases, frequent Railway accidents etc. etc.).
Re: The Rohingya Menace
RD sir, we are not New Zealand or Switzerland that we just have to worry only about economy infrastructure etc. The degree of INTERNAL civilization threats that existed in 2014, exists today too, and looking at BJP will exist in 2019 as well. Nothing much has changed there except for FCRA, which you claimed made some changes, but I disagree with from what I am seeing.Rudradev wrote:That is exactly why those things are written, Sachin ji. For us to read, and get this feeling. A broad-based undermining of mass motivation for 2019 is precisely the intention. With that gone, vast funds from la familia's coffers plus activation of the reliable identity-based votebanks will do the rest.Sachin wrote: Honestly, after continuously reading about very many things, I am getting a feeling of a government slowly losing the upper hand/control. And this is 1 1/2 years before the next elections. I am seeing things fraying at the edges (these kind of court cases, frequent Railway accidents etc. etc.).
Re: The Rohingya Menace
https://www.indiatimes.com/news/india/a ... 31603.htmlISIS Training 2,000 Rohingyas To Carry Out Suicide Attacks In Nagaland, Claim Police
Re: The Rohingya Menace
The SC has done a trapeze act - balancing both sides. So you can deport Rohingyas but in a humanitarian way. The important part is that the petition was filed to stay deportation and that has not been granted. The language used by the SC is neither here nor there. Now it is upto the govt to solve the issue keeping in mind SC view.
The Rohingya Menace
SC almost passes ‘don’t deport Rohingya’ interim order, relents
NEW DELHI: The Supreme Court gave the jitters to the Centre on Friday by seeking to prohibit the deportation of Rohingya, before coming around to say that it would seek to strike the right balance between humanitarian consideration for the asylum-seekers from Myanmar and the government's concern that they posed a threat to national interest, including security, economy and the working class.
Before adjourning the hearing in the contentious matter to November 21 for a wider debate, the bench surprised both the petitioners and the Centre by saying it intended to pass an interim order, "Don't deport. Take action (against criminal elements) where required." The petitioners, who had not sought such an interim order, were overjoyed. But additional solicitor general Tushar Mehta protested, telling the bench that such an order was unwarranted as even the petitioners had not mentioned any contingency.
The petitioners had challenged a central government directive to states to sensitise law-enforcing and intelligence departments to identify and deport all illegal Rohingya migrants, who the petitioners said had come to India to save their lives from brutal persecution unleashed by the Myanmar army in Rakhine province.
Mehta said the issue had wide ramifications and the government was in talks with Bangladesh and Myanmar to find a permanent solution to illegal migration that threatened India's national security, economic interests and the interest of the labour class.
"Passing such an interim order was not required as even the petitioners have not sought it," he said.
The bench changed its mind and acknowledged, "There cannot be an iota of doubt that there has to be a broader humanitarian approach to the issue which has come before the court for the first time. But national interest cannot be kept secondary. A balance has to be struck."
After a lot of persuasion by Mehta, the SC agreed not to pass any interim order and recorded Fali S Nariman's submission that if the petitioners felt there was any exigency (in event of any government action to deport the Rohingya), they would move the court.
The CJI said, "We have developed a tradition to protect people in humanitarian situations. But we have to see how far the court can go in this issue (sic). There are competing interests. On one side it is national, security, economic and labour interests and on the other side, there are children, women, infirm, sick and aged who need protection. A migrant having terror links gets deprived of humanitarian considerations. But children, women and infirm have to be dealt with differently." Nariman added it was fallacious on the part of the Centre to argue that the Rohingya issue was in the executive's exclusive domain.
Cheers
NEW DELHI: The Supreme Court gave the jitters to the Centre on Friday by seeking to prohibit the deportation of Rohingya, before coming around to say that it would seek to strike the right balance between humanitarian consideration for the asylum-seekers from Myanmar and the government's concern that they posed a threat to national interest, including security, economy and the working class.
Before adjourning the hearing in the contentious matter to November 21 for a wider debate, the bench surprised both the petitioners and the Centre by saying it intended to pass an interim order, "Don't deport. Take action (against criminal elements) where required." The petitioners, who had not sought such an interim order, were overjoyed. But additional solicitor general Tushar Mehta protested, telling the bench that such an order was unwarranted as even the petitioners had not mentioned any contingency.
The petitioners had challenged a central government directive to states to sensitise law-enforcing and intelligence departments to identify and deport all illegal Rohingya migrants, who the petitioners said had come to India to save their lives from brutal persecution unleashed by the Myanmar army in Rakhine province.
Mehta said the issue had wide ramifications and the government was in talks with Bangladesh and Myanmar to find a permanent solution to illegal migration that threatened India's national security, economic interests and the interest of the labour class.
"Passing such an interim order was not required as even the petitioners have not sought it," he said.
The bench changed its mind and acknowledged, "There cannot be an iota of doubt that there has to be a broader humanitarian approach to the issue which has come before the court for the first time. But national interest cannot be kept secondary. A balance has to be struck."
After a lot of persuasion by Mehta, the SC agreed not to pass any interim order and recorded Fali S Nariman's submission that if the petitioners felt there was any exigency (in event of any government action to deport the Rohingya), they would move the court.
The CJI said, "We have developed a tradition to protect people in humanitarian situations. But we have to see how far the court can go in this issue (sic). There are competing interests. On one side it is national, security, economic and labour interests and on the other side, there are children, women, infirm, sick and aged who need protection. A migrant having terror links gets deprived of humanitarian considerations. But children, women and infirm have to be dealt with differently." Nariman added it was fallacious on the part of the Centre to argue that the Rohingya issue was in the executive's exclusive domain.
Cheers
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periaswamy
- BRFite
- Posts: 448
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Re: The Rohingya Menace
Just really who the hell do these SC judges think they are to challenge govt. policy on security? Who are they to "balance security concerns" and override the executive and legislature's judgement on that? Are these megalomaniacs in the SC really that retarded?
Who is this "We"? Since when is the Supreme Court in charge of security of illegal immigrants? Who granted them that power? certainly not the constitution. What is it with the Attorney General that he cannot ask the judges to stick to their job, and instead crawl before these jokers in the SC?We have developed a tradition to protect people in humanitarian situations.
Re: The Rohingya Menace
Thank you for the gyan sir. I would never have realized that on my own.Karthik S wrote:
RD sir, we are not New Zealand or Switzerland that we just have to worry only about economy infrastructure etc.
Spoken like someone who had no clue whatsoever about the degree of internal civilization threats prior to 2014.The degree of INTERNAL civilization threats that existed in 2014, exists today too, and looking at BJP will exist in 2019 as well.
This is no longer a topic for BRF in any case, so please address it in the appropriate forum and I will be happy to carry on the discussion there.
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ArjunPandit
- BRF Oldie
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- Joined: 29 Mar 2017 06:37
Re: The Rohingya Menace
This is vhp and bajrang Dal need to swing into action to provoke these guys and bring their true character out
Re: The Rohingya Menace
they have purposely left the doors wide open and the matter which was a clear cut black and white issue earlier has now been converted into an ambiguous grey issue that is subject to individual interpretation and obviously further challenges to the executive which will again be interpreted by the judiciary.Supratik wrote:The SC has done a trapeze act - balancing both sides. So you can deport Rohingyas but in a humanitarian way. The important part is that the petition was filed to stay deportation and that has not been granted. The language used by the SC is neither here nor there. Now it is upto the govt to solve the issue keeping in mind SC view.
The request of the GoI was not to interfere in a matter that was squarely in the sole domain of the executive but that prayer has not been granted and instead a "verbal" restriction has been placed on the GoI.
what exactly is the legal value and interpretation of such a verbal restriction??
This is like the story of the camel and the tent.
Re: The Rohingya Menace
^^ Judges have fallen in love with executive power and want to exercise it without going through the democratic process. Judges have a boring job - the real fun is in having control over the society like the PM.
Re: The Rohingya Menace
Bdesh newspaper claims India deporting Rohingyas.
http://www.opindia.com/2017/10/india-de ... newspaper/
http://www.opindia.com/2017/10/india-de ... newspaper/
Re: The Rohingya Menace
Wow. We’re as hopeless as the europeans. Amazing.Peregrine wrote:SC almost passes ‘don’t deport Rohingya’ interim order, relents
NEW DELHI: The Supreme Court gave the jitters to the Centre on Friday by seeking to prohibit the deportation of Rohingya, before coming around to say that it would seek to strike the right balance between humanitarian consideration for the asylum-seekers from Myanmar and the government's concern that they posed a threat to national interest, including security, economy and the working class.
Before adjourning the hearing in the contentious matter to November 21 for a wider debate, the bench surprised both the petitioners and the Centre by saying it intended to pass an interim order, "Don't deport. Take action (against criminal elements) where required." The petitioners, who had not sought such an interim order, were overjoyed. But additional solicitor general Tushar Mehta protested, telling the bench that such an order was unwarranted as even the petitioners had not mentioned any contingency.
The petitioners had challenged a central government directive to states to sensitise law-enforcing and intelligence departments to identify and deport all illegal Rohingya migrants, who the petitioners said had come to India to save their lives from brutal persecution unleashed by the Myanmar army in Rakhine province.
Mehta said the issue had wide ramifications and the government was in talks with Bangladesh and Myanmar to find a permanent solution to illegal migration that threatened India's national security, economic interests and the interest of the labour class.
"Passing such an interim order was not required as even the petitioners have not sought it," he said.
The bench changed its mind and acknowledged, "There cannot be an iota of doubt that there has to be a broader humanitarian approach to the issue which has come before the court for the first time. But national interest cannot be kept secondary. A balance has to be struck."
After a lot of persuasion by Mehta, the SC agreed not to pass any interim order and recorded Fali S Nariman's submission that if the petitioners felt there was any exigency (in event of any government action to deport the Rohingya), they would move the court.
The CJI said, "We have developed a tradition to protect people in humanitarian situations. But we have to see how far the court can go in this issue (sic). There are competing interests. On one side it is national, security, economic and labour interests and on the other side, there are children, women, infirm, sick and aged who need protection. A migrant having terror links gets deprived of humanitarian considerations. But children, women and infirm have to be dealt with differently." Nariman added it was fallacious on the part of the Centre to argue that the Rohingya issue was in the executive's exclusive domain.
Cheers
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periaswamy
- BRFite
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- Joined: 07 Jul 2017 20:50
Re: The Rohingya Menace
The problem here is Supreme Court Judges who want the power of the legislature without winning any elections. They are the weakest link in the chain. They do not owe anything to the electorate, since they wrote themselves into power by their secret "judicial committee" or whatever they call it. All of this is done in the name of "separation of powers"
Now, these SC judges are pretending they can override the elected representatives of the people and create policy without the mandate of the Indian public. All the power and none of the responsibility towards the electorate. Apparently, "separation of powers" is just an excuse to avoid scrutiny by the public at large via their elected representatives.
All we need now is one of these guys to be corrupted by some adversarial power to have them start creating inimical policies that are not in the public interest, like they are already doing.
Now, these SC judges are pretending they can override the elected representatives of the people and create policy without the mandate of the Indian public. All the power and none of the responsibility towards the electorate. Apparently, "separation of powers" is just an excuse to avoid scrutiny by the public at large via their elected representatives.
All we need now is one of these guys to be corrupted by some adversarial power to have them start creating inimical policies that are not in the public interest, like they are already doing.
Last edited by periaswamy on 18 Oct 2017 17:04, edited 1 time in total.
Re: The Rohingya Menace
What remedies does the Indian constitution provide against self-aggrandizement by the Judiciary, especially blatant usurpation of the power to dictate policy by "legislating from the bench"?
Short of declaring emergency, does the Executive have recourse to constitutional mechanisms that allow overriding the Judiciary and prioritizing the national interest over the whims and fancies of judges?
Short of declaring emergency, does the Executive have recourse to constitutional mechanisms that allow overriding the Judiciary and prioritizing the national interest over the whims and fancies of judges?
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Amoghvarsha
- BRFite
- Posts: 250
- Joined: 18 Aug 2016 12:56
Re: The Rohingya Menace
They can override any judgement by passing a law of ordinance that overrules such judgements.JalliKattu is an example.Rudradev wrote:What remedies does the Indian constitution provide against self-aggrandizement by the Judiciary, especially blatant usurpation of the power to dictate policy by "legislating from the bench"?
Short of declaring emergency, does the Executive have recourse to constitutional mechanisms that allow overriding the Judiciary and prioritizing the national interest over the whims and fancies of judges?
The second is dificult, but Parliament can impeach any judge.
The Rohingya Menace
Rohingya crisis: China says foreign interference doesn’t work
BEIJING: Experience shows that foreign interference in crises does not work and China supports the Myanmar government’s efforts to protect stability, a senior Chinese official said on Saturday, amid ongoing violence in Myanmar’s Rakhine state.
More than 500,000 Muslim Rohingya have fled across the border to Bangladesh following a counter-insurgency offensive by Myanmar’s army in the wake of militant attacks on security forces.
UN officials have described Myanmar’s strategy as “ethnic cleansing”.
US Secretary of State Rex Tillerson said on Wednesday the United States held Myanmar’s military leadership responsible for its harsh crackdown.
Guo Yezhou, a deputy head of the Chinese Communist Party’s international department, told reporters on the sidelines of a party congress that China condemned the attacks in Rakhine and understands and supports Myanmar’s efforts to protect peace and stability there.
China and Myanmar have a deep, long-standing friendship, and China believes Myanmar can handle its problems on its own, he added. Asked why China’s approach to the Rohingya crisis was different from Western nations, Guo said that China’s principle was not to interfere in the internal affairs of another country.
“Based on experience, you can see recently the consequences when one country interferes in another. We won’t do it,” he said, without offering any examples of when interventions go wrong.
China does not want instability in Myanmar as it inevitably will be affected as they share a long land border, Guo said. “We condemn violent and terrorist acts,” he added.
Guo’s department has been at the forefront of building relations with Myanmar leader Aung San Suu Kyi, who visited China in 2015 at the Communist Party’s invitation, rather than the Chinese government’s.
Department head Song Tao also visited Myanmar in August and met Suu Kyi.
Rohingya Muslims have fled Myanmar in large numbers since late August when Rohingya insurgent attacks sparked a ferocious military response, with the fleeing people accusing security forces of arson, killings and rape.
The European Union and the United States have been considering targeted sanctions against Myanmar’s military leadership.
Cheers
BEIJING: Experience shows that foreign interference in crises does not work and China supports the Myanmar government’s efforts to protect stability, a senior Chinese official said on Saturday, amid ongoing violence in Myanmar’s Rakhine state.
More than 500,000 Muslim Rohingya have fled across the border to Bangladesh following a counter-insurgency offensive by Myanmar’s army in the wake of militant attacks on security forces.
UN officials have described Myanmar’s strategy as “ethnic cleansing”.
US Secretary of State Rex Tillerson said on Wednesday the United States held Myanmar’s military leadership responsible for its harsh crackdown.
Guo Yezhou, a deputy head of the Chinese Communist Party’s international department, told reporters on the sidelines of a party congress that China condemned the attacks in Rakhine and understands and supports Myanmar’s efforts to protect peace and stability there.
China and Myanmar have a deep, long-standing friendship, and China believes Myanmar can handle its problems on its own, he added. Asked why China’s approach to the Rohingya crisis was different from Western nations, Guo said that China’s principle was not to interfere in the internal affairs of another country.
“Based on experience, you can see recently the consequences when one country interferes in another. We won’t do it,” he said, without offering any examples of when interventions go wrong.
China does not want instability in Myanmar as it inevitably will be affected as they share a long land border, Guo said. “We condemn violent and terrorist acts,” he added.
Guo’s department has been at the forefront of building relations with Myanmar leader Aung San Suu Kyi, who visited China in 2015 at the Communist Party’s invitation, rather than the Chinese government’s.
Department head Song Tao also visited Myanmar in August and met Suu Kyi.
Rohingya Muslims have fled Myanmar in large numbers since late August when Rohingya insurgent attacks sparked a ferocious military response, with the fleeing people accusing security forces of arson, killings and rape.
The European Union and the United States have been considering targeted sanctions against Myanmar’s military leadership.
Cheers
The Rohingya Menace
Only return of 'displaced persons' can restore normalcy in Myanmar: Swaraj on Rohingya crisis
DHAKA: India is "deeply concerned" at the spate of violence in Myanmar's Rakhine State where normalcy will be restored only with the return of "displaced persons", external affairs minister Sushma Swaraj today said here amidst the raging Rohingya refugee crisis.
Nearly 600,000 minority Rohingya Muslims have fled to Bangladesh since late August to escape violence in Myanmar's Rakhine State where the army has launched a crackdown against militants.
Myanmar doesn't recognise Rohingya as an ethnic group and insists that they are Bangladeshi migrants living illegally in the country.
Bangladesh has sought India's "sustained pressures" on Myanmar for its resolution.
"It is clear that normalcy will only be restored with the return of the displaced persons to Rakhine state.
"The only long term solution to the situation in Rakhine State is rapid socio-economic and infrastructure development that would have a positive impact on all the communities living in the State," she said.
India has committed to provide financial and technical assistance for identified projects to be undertaken in Rakhine State in conjunction with the local authorities, Swaraj said.
India has supported implementation of the recommendations contained in the Kofi Annan-led Special Advisory Commission report.
India and Bangladesh also discussed the common challenge of terrorism and resolved to fight the scourge together even as New Delhi reaffirmed its status as a reliable development partner of Dhaka.
"We are both determined to protect our societies from the threat of ideologies of hate, violence and terror by adopting a zero tolerance policy and a comprehensive approach in fighting violent extremism and terrorism at all levels," external affairs minister Sushma Swaraj said after talks with the Bangladeshi side as part of the fourth Joint Consultative Commission.
"We discussed the common challenges that we are faced with today. One such challenge is that of terrorism, extremism and radicalisation and we will continue to fight this scourge together and along with other like-minded countries," she said.
Swaraj, who arrived here on a two-day visit, said "India has been a longstanding and reliable development partner of Bangladesh".
"Totally, three lines of credit amounting to $8 billion have been extended by India to Bangladesh so far. This is by far the largest development assistance that India has extended to any country worldwide," she said. Complete waste of Indian Resources. Bangladesh will "MILK" India just as Terroristan has "MILKED" the United States of America. No IFs No BUTs!
India has also been extending grant assistance for small socio-economic projects in Bangladesh. In the past three years alone, 24 such grant projects have been completed which include construction of students' hostels, tube-wells, cultural centres, and orphanages among others. Presently 58 projects, including city development projects in Rajshahi, Khulna and Sylhet, are under implementation, she said.
"India is now supplying 660 MW of much needed power to the Bangladesh people and this figure will double, if not triple, in the foreseeable future. We will work together as founding members of the International Solar Alliance, for which Bangladesh has just confirmed its accession. This alliance is expected to make solar energy affordable," Swaraj said.
The two nations have already agreed on the construction of a petroleum products pipeline that will link Siliguri with Parbatipur, for the benefit of the people of northwestern Bangladesh, as a grant in aid project.
The setting up of LNG terminal, supply of natural gas by pipeline and investments in the upstream sector are also under consideration, she said.
She said restoration of pre-1965 links encompassing road, rail, water and coastal shipping links is being planned to increase connectivity, citing increase in frequency of the Dhaka-Maitri express. This will lead to a "MASS IMMIGRATIONS OF BANGLADESHIS INTO INDIA THEREBY CHANGING THE DEMOGRAPHY IN WEST BENGAL AND THE SEVEN EASTERN STATES.
The inaugural run with end-to-end Immigration and Customs services for the Maitri Express and the inaugural commercial run of the Kolkata-Khulna Bandhan service are all expected soon, she said.
In order to facilitate people-to-people contacts, she said the Indian Mission and Posts in Bangladesh issued 9.76 lakh visas in 2016 and these are expected to grow to about 14 lakh visas in 2017. THEY DON'T RETURN TO BANGLADESH, do they?
Swaraj said India will also offer five-year multiple entry visas for Bangladeshi freedom fighters and is planning a scheme for their medical treatment in India.
She will also hand over some memorabilia of the 1971 liberation war to Bangladeshi Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina to be displayed in museums.
This is Swaraj's second visit to Bangladesh and comes after the recent trip of finance minister Arun Jaitley during which India operationalised a $4.5 billion line of credit to Bangladesh to enable implementation of development projects in key areas, including power, railways, roads and shipping.
The announcement of the line of credit was made during Hasina's visit to India in April.
The development is also seen as India's attempt to counter rising Chinese influence in Bangladesh, where Beijing is trying to make inroads in infrastructure ventures.
COMMENTS : By the above acts E. A. Minister Sushma Swaraj, India has lost Myanmar to China for ever!
Cheers
DHAKA: India is "deeply concerned" at the spate of violence in Myanmar's Rakhine State where normalcy will be restored only with the return of "displaced persons", external affairs minister Sushma Swaraj today said here amidst the raging Rohingya refugee crisis.
Nearly 600,000 minority Rohingya Muslims have fled to Bangladesh since late August to escape violence in Myanmar's Rakhine State where the army has launched a crackdown against militants.
Myanmar doesn't recognise Rohingya as an ethnic group and insists that they are Bangladeshi migrants living illegally in the country.
Bangladesh has sought India's "sustained pressures" on Myanmar for its resolution.
"It is clear that normalcy will only be restored with the return of the displaced persons to Rakhine state.
"The only long term solution to the situation in Rakhine State is rapid socio-economic and infrastructure development that would have a positive impact on all the communities living in the State," she said.
India has committed to provide financial and technical assistance for identified projects to be undertaken in Rakhine State in conjunction with the local authorities, Swaraj said.
India has supported implementation of the recommendations contained in the Kofi Annan-led Special Advisory Commission report.
India and Bangladesh also discussed the common challenge of terrorism and resolved to fight the scourge together even as New Delhi reaffirmed its status as a reliable development partner of Dhaka.
"We are both determined to protect our societies from the threat of ideologies of hate, violence and terror by adopting a zero tolerance policy and a comprehensive approach in fighting violent extremism and terrorism at all levels," external affairs minister Sushma Swaraj said after talks with the Bangladeshi side as part of the fourth Joint Consultative Commission.
"We discussed the common challenges that we are faced with today. One such challenge is that of terrorism, extremism and radicalisation and we will continue to fight this scourge together and along with other like-minded countries," she said.
Swaraj, who arrived here on a two-day visit, said "India has been a longstanding and reliable development partner of Bangladesh".
"Totally, three lines of credit amounting to $8 billion have been extended by India to Bangladesh so far. This is by far the largest development assistance that India has extended to any country worldwide," she said. Complete waste of Indian Resources. Bangladesh will "MILK" India just as Terroristan has "MILKED" the United States of America. No IFs No BUTs!
India has also been extending grant assistance for small socio-economic projects in Bangladesh. In the past three years alone, 24 such grant projects have been completed which include construction of students' hostels, tube-wells, cultural centres, and orphanages among others. Presently 58 projects, including city development projects in Rajshahi, Khulna and Sylhet, are under implementation, she said.
"India is now supplying 660 MW of much needed power to the Bangladesh people and this figure will double, if not triple, in the foreseeable future. We will work together as founding members of the International Solar Alliance, for which Bangladesh has just confirmed its accession. This alliance is expected to make solar energy affordable," Swaraj said.
The two nations have already agreed on the construction of a petroleum products pipeline that will link Siliguri with Parbatipur, for the benefit of the people of northwestern Bangladesh, as a grant in aid project.
The setting up of LNG terminal, supply of natural gas by pipeline and investments in the upstream sector are also under consideration, she said.
She said restoration of pre-1965 links encompassing road, rail, water and coastal shipping links is being planned to increase connectivity, citing increase in frequency of the Dhaka-Maitri express. This will lead to a "MASS IMMIGRATIONS OF BANGLADESHIS INTO INDIA THEREBY CHANGING THE DEMOGRAPHY IN WEST BENGAL AND THE SEVEN EASTERN STATES.
The inaugural run with end-to-end Immigration and Customs services for the Maitri Express and the inaugural commercial run of the Kolkata-Khulna Bandhan service are all expected soon, she said.
In order to facilitate people-to-people contacts, she said the Indian Mission and Posts in Bangladesh issued 9.76 lakh visas in 2016 and these are expected to grow to about 14 lakh visas in 2017. THEY DON'T RETURN TO BANGLADESH, do they?
Swaraj said India will also offer five-year multiple entry visas for Bangladeshi freedom fighters and is planning a scheme for their medical treatment in India.
She will also hand over some memorabilia of the 1971 liberation war to Bangladeshi Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina to be displayed in museums.
This is Swaraj's second visit to Bangladesh and comes after the recent trip of finance minister Arun Jaitley during which India operationalised a $4.5 billion line of credit to Bangladesh to enable implementation of development projects in key areas, including power, railways, roads and shipping.
The announcement of the line of credit was made during Hasina's visit to India in April.
The development is also seen as India's attempt to counter rising Chinese influence in Bangladesh, where Beijing is trying to make inroads in infrastructure ventures.
COMMENTS : By the above acts E. A. Minister Sushma Swaraj, India has lost Myanmar to China for ever!
Cheers
Re: The Rohingya Menace
Pathetic. It’s playing out exactly as I predicted it would. After losing influence (to us) in Burma, the Chinese have gained it all back. GOI blew it, again, just as they did in Nepal, and in doing so have sown the seeds for a new insurgency in our NE. The Rohingya situation will bring in more outside jihadist support which will also invigorate a parallel muslim insurgency in WB. IOW the long-awaited WB insurgency will happen much sooner than it would have otherwise, with both conflicts morphing into one big mess for our entire NE, and that’s not even including the ongoing Maoist insurgencies we already have in the regoin.
Time and again, I’m astounded by the ability of succesive Indian govt’s to fail at national security.
Time and again, I’m astounded by the ability of succesive Indian govt’s to fail at national security.
Re: The Rohingya Menace
Bangladesh is India's most critical neigbour. It is extremely important that Bangladesh not get alienated from India. It has not and IMO will not behave the same as Pakistan. Smaller countries almost always have grievances against their bigger neighbours. That does not turn it into a Pakistan which is a very unique case. Important for India not to let that fester and include BD in the Indian market at some point in the future. An Indian NAFTA if you will.
Re: The Rohingya Menace
It is just diplomacy. Modi and Sushma said different things in Myanmar and Bdesh. Nothing to be alarmed about.
Re: The Rohingya Menace
Take a few hundred Rohingyas and place them before each and every Supreme court justice house. Let's see how much compassion they have after that
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periaswamy
- BRFite
- Posts: 448
- Joined: 07 Jul 2017 20:50
Re: The Rohingya Menace
"Suppporting the implementation of XYZ in Myanmar" is not the same as "forcing Myanmar to implement XYZ". What is the pound of flesh India is extracting from Bangladesh for all this aid to BD and this "diplomatic support"? Hopefully this is not another instance of the Indian Govt. just blowing away a bunch of monies to stave off a problem temporarily?
Re: The Rohingya Menace
India's engagement with Bdesh will involve four interests.
1) Preventing an Islamist takeover.
2) Preventing another Chinese client state on India's border.
3) Peaceful transfer of illegal immigrants back to Bdesh.
4) Mutually beneficial economic engagement resulting in Bdesh getting joined at the hip with India.
This will require the highest quality of diplomacy.
1) Preventing an Islamist takeover.
2) Preventing another Chinese client state on India's border.
3) Peaceful transfer of illegal immigrants back to Bdesh.
4) Mutually beneficial economic engagement resulting in Bdesh getting joined at the hip with India.
This will require the highest quality of diplomacy.
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periaswamy
- BRFite
- Posts: 448
- Joined: 07 Jul 2017 20:50
Re: The Rohingya Menace
Getting Bangladesh joined at the hip is tall order for now because (1) is not possible using diplomacy but may be possible with intelligence and security coopertion with BD. To her detriment, Hasina has not taken on all of the regressive anti-elements (that are pro-BNP/pro-paki) out of the political system, which means that there is scope for an anti-India regime change taking place in BD down the line. Diplomacy is useless w.r.t. to this reality re: Bangladesh. Any economic engagement with Bangladesh can only be assumed to last while current crop of Awami league leadership is in power. China's influence in Myanmar is not relevant if India can remain a stake holder in Myanmar as it should --- in this instance, following the same larger strategy as China and supporting the Myanmar Junta is the only way forward. Indian diplomacy in the past has often effed up the situation by moralizing to states like Myanmar and destroying a mutually beneficially relationship. Hopefully all of cretinous Nehruvian behavior is gone and done for re: Indian diplomacy, along with all the Nehruvian morons.
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periaswamy
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Re: The Rohingya Menace
US trying to get its foot in the door
India must ask the US to get effed and follow china's lead on Myanmar. Hope the babucracy does not eff up here with some misplaced notion of democracy and human right and have history repeat all over again. These are the perils of getting a little too excited about pronouncements of Indo-US super-friends from the GOTUS.
India must ask the US to get effed and follow china's lead on Myanmar. Hope the babucracy does not eff up here with some misplaced notion of democracy and human right and have history repeat all over again. These are the perils of getting a little too excited about pronouncements of Indo-US super-friends from the GOTUS.
India must not cooperate with the US or the "human rights" scum lead by Saudi Arabia on this matter -- the byline should be that "it is an internal affair of Myanmar, and India will not participate or support any action against Myanmar" just like China's byline on this matter. The Islamist scum running the UN "human rights council" will do their best to push India on the back foot. Exit the UN if necessary, or at the very least, stop aiding the UN in any form.“We are working with international partners to urge that Burma enables unhindered access to relevant areas for the United Nations Fact-Finding Mission, international humanitarian organizations, and media,” the spokesperson said.
“We are consulting with allies and partners on accountability options at the UN, the UN Human Rights Council, and other appropriate venues,” she added
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periaswamy
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Re: The Rohingya Menace
link
So all the free advice is to Suu Kyi, not to Miltary Junta, which is a good sign. Such advice should only be given to people who do not have the power to do anything about it.
External Affairs Minister Sushma Swaraj on Sunday said Prime Minister Narendra Modi has advised Myanmar leader Aung San Suu Kyi not to "destroy" her image over her stance on the Rohingya issue as Myanmar's military actions in Rakhine state sparked a global outrage. Swaraj referred to Modi's advice as she called on Bangladeshi Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina after joining the 4th Bangladesh-India Joint Consultative Commission meeting with her counterpart AH Mahmood Ali.
"He (Modi) told her (Suu Kyi) 'you have a very good international image, don't destroy it'," the Bangladesh premier's press secretary Ihsanul Karim told PTI, quoting Swaraj as saying during her meeting with Hasina at her residence.
The Rohingya Menace
Modi Ji and Sushma Swaraj come out smelling of Roses 
Bangladesh, Myanmar agree to halt the outflow of Rohingya
NAYPYITAW: Government officials from Bangladesh and Myanmar have agreed to halt the outflow of Rohingya Muslims to Bangladesh and enable the refugees to return home.
The two sides met Tuesday in Myanmar's capital, Naypyitaw, to discuss a crisis that has seen hundreds of thousands of Rohingya flee to Bangladesh to escape violence in Myanmar's Rakhine state.
The sides said in a joint statement that "Myanmar affirms its commitment to immediately halt the outflow of Myanmar residents to Bangladesh, to restore normalcy in Rakhine to enable displaced Myanmar residents to return from Bangladesh at the earliest" possible time.
More than 600,000 Rohingya from northern Rakhine have fled to Bangladesh since August 25, when Myanmar security forces began a scorched-earth campaign against Rohingya villages.
Comments : Now India can send all those leaches from ALL OVER INDIA back to where they belong!
Cheers
Bangladesh, Myanmar agree to halt the outflow of Rohingya
NAYPYITAW: Government officials from Bangladesh and Myanmar have agreed to halt the outflow of Rohingya Muslims to Bangladesh and enable the refugees to return home.
The two sides met Tuesday in Myanmar's capital, Naypyitaw, to discuss a crisis that has seen hundreds of thousands of Rohingya flee to Bangladesh to escape violence in Myanmar's Rakhine state.
The sides said in a joint statement that "Myanmar affirms its commitment to immediately halt the outflow of Myanmar residents to Bangladesh, to restore normalcy in Rakhine to enable displaced Myanmar residents to return from Bangladesh at the earliest" possible time.
More than 600,000 Rohingya from northern Rakhine have fled to Bangladesh since August 25, when Myanmar security forces began a scorched-earth campaign against Rohingya villages.
Comments : Now India can send all those leaches from ALL OVER INDIA back to where they belong!
Cheers
Re: The Rohingya Menace
But Peregrine ji, Do India and Myanmar have any agreement on the Rohingyas? Even if they don't i doubt Myanmar will raise too many objections with taking back a lac or two from India, if they are ready to take back 6 from Bangladesh
Re: The Rohingya Menace
India also might well lose out West Bengal to Bangladesh, if the human traffic is one-way, made more hassle-free and the volume increased even more than what it is currently.Peregrine wrote:THEY DON'T RETURN TO BANGLADESH, do they?In order to facilitate people-to-people contacts, she said the Indian Mission and Posts in Bangladesh issued 9.76 lakh visas in 2016 and these are expected to grow to about 14 lakh visas in 2017.
COMMENTS : By the above acts E. A. Minister Sushma Swaraj, India has lost Myanmar to China for ever!
Cheers
Re: The Rohingya Menace
Trickle of Rohingyas moving to Bdesh from India.
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 192535.cms
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 192535.cms
Re: The Rohingya Menace
https://timesofindia.indiatimes.com/vid ... 300955.cms
BD hopes to curb the Rohingya population explosion with sterilization.
There are over a million Rohingya in BD camps. In the Rohingya camps in BD, some parents have as many as 19 children.
Many men have more than one wife. Officials have been able to distribute only 549 packets of condoms. Most of them do not use them. They are even paying 2300 Taka for the men to undergo the procedure.
BD hopes to curb the Rohingya population explosion with sterilization.
There are over a million Rohingya in BD camps. In the Rohingya camps in BD, some parents have as many as 19 children.
Many men have more than one wife. Officials have been able to distribute only 549 packets of condoms. Most of them do not use them. They are even paying 2300 Taka for the men to undergo the procedure.-
periaswamy
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Re: The Rohingya Menace
Time to reassess relations with Myanmar
According to this "think tank", Myanmar is not relevant to India's look east policy, and India should sacrifice Myanmar for Bangladesh. Apparently, this is what this merry band of lame-assed clowns at Takshashila Institution pulled out of their collective orifices after a discussion on the Rohingya.
But then it is not a surprise given that the author is an avowed fan of Bandit Nehru and in fact goes so far as to call Nehru "the ultimate realist who shaped India's foreign policy"...with the end result for all of us to behold, clearly. Bugger sure has a short memory on how the NE was brought under control in the past decade.
Main conclusion of the article: India should put pressure on Myanmar to cooperate with "international community" since Bangladesh is more important that India.
Reasons:
1. India is being "played" by the regime.
My comment: India has managed to extract cooperation from the Myanmar govt. in areas that matter, and such cooperation makes sure that Bangladesh does not take India for granted. This is especially true re: the porous North-east border which is hard to stabilize if the Myanmar goes back to a policy of benign neglect in allowing NE militant groups to operate within its territory. India is hardly being "played" by Myanmar.
2. Myanmar hates Indians like it hates Rohingya.
My comment: so what? Rohingyas are a dangerous populace that must not be allowed in India --this is a matter between Myanmar and Bangladesh. As has been posted earlier in the thread -- the Rohingyas wanted Pakistan to assimillate rakhine state in the past -- there is no reason why events should be allowed to move in the direction of an independent Rakhine state that is hostile to India and friendlier to the jihadi states in the Middle East and to Pakistan.
Also, Selling out Myanmar for Bangladesh does not guarantee that BD govt. will remain an ally of India for ever. Also, it is not in India's interest to allow Rakine state to become an independent state with a sea front, and allow outside powers to operate naval bases from there. It is far better for the Myanmar regime to be in control of that territory.
3. All "in progress" projects are not successes, so India can just wash its hands off them
My comment: Remaining engaged with both Myanmar and Bangladesh is the only way to retain influence with both. Disengaging from either of them ius not an option. This also means that India needs a bucket list of items of mutual interest to engage these nations -- not engaging either one of them only allows space for outside power to step in.
This kind of cretinous nehruvian thinking has been the reason why India failed to retain influence even in neighbouring states in the past. GoI clearly has more pragmatic and less ideological people in charge these days rather than fools like this author. OTOH, India is a free country, and silly nonsense of this kind should probably just be allowed to be in public display, just for optics...with the GoI studiously ignoring all such "think tanks" (as is normally the case).
According to this "think tank", Myanmar is not relevant to India's look east policy, and India should sacrifice Myanmar for Bangladesh. Apparently, this is what this merry band of lame-assed clowns at Takshashila Institution pulled out of their collective orifices after a discussion on the Rohingya.
But then it is not a surprise given that the author is an avowed fan of Bandit Nehru and in fact goes so far as to call Nehru "the ultimate realist who shaped India's foreign policy"...with the end result for all of us to behold, clearly. Bugger sure has a short memory on how the NE was brought under control in the past decade.Main conclusion of the article: India should put pressure on Myanmar to cooperate with "international community" since Bangladesh is more important that India.
Reasons:
1. India is being "played" by the regime.
My comment: India has managed to extract cooperation from the Myanmar govt. in areas that matter, and such cooperation makes sure that Bangladesh does not take India for granted. This is especially true re: the porous North-east border which is hard to stabilize if the Myanmar goes back to a policy of benign neglect in allowing NE militant groups to operate within its territory. India is hardly being "played" by Myanmar.
2. Myanmar hates Indians like it hates Rohingya.
My comment: so what? Rohingyas are a dangerous populace that must not be allowed in India --this is a matter between Myanmar and Bangladesh. As has been posted earlier in the thread -- the Rohingyas wanted Pakistan to assimillate rakhine state in the past -- there is no reason why events should be allowed to move in the direction of an independent Rakhine state that is hostile to India and friendlier to the jihadi states in the Middle East and to Pakistan.
Also, Selling out Myanmar for Bangladesh does not guarantee that BD govt. will remain an ally of India for ever. Also, it is not in India's interest to allow Rakine state to become an independent state with a sea front, and allow outside powers to operate naval bases from there. It is far better for the Myanmar regime to be in control of that territory.
3. All "in progress" projects are not successes, so India can just wash its hands off them
My comment: Remaining engaged with both Myanmar and Bangladesh is the only way to retain influence with both. Disengaging from either of them ius not an option. This also means that India needs a bucket list of items of mutual interest to engage these nations -- not engaging either one of them only allows space for outside power to step in.
This kind of cretinous nehruvian thinking has been the reason why India failed to retain influence even in neighbouring states in the past. GoI clearly has more pragmatic and less ideological people in charge these days rather than fools like this author. OTOH, India is a free country, and silly nonsense of this kind should probably just be allowed to be in public display, just for optics...with the GoI studiously ignoring all such "think tanks" (as is normally the case).
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periaswamy
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Re: The Rohingya Menace
And now this Takshashila imbecile is quoting the islamist and lying douche CJ Werelman to support his stupid "analISIS" of the Rohingya problem. CJ Werelman wrote this book in Islamophobia and was called out on twitter for plagiarizing entire chapters in his book. He also slanders people on twitter on a regular basis, and gets called out for it. It is interesting that his ilk is now all caught up with the "Rohingya situation" -- are people like Nitin Pai pulling for some other non-Indian interests when they persist with this line of misleading the public on the Rohingya problem? Why is this being made into a problem that calls for a change in Indian immigration policy? Very curious. Seems like the doings of the politically compromised Nehruvian/Congress babucracy in New Delhi.
https://drpaulfuller.wordpress.com/2017 ... sa-sermon/
Here is the full quote -- most of the talk was in reference to a battle between a Tamil King and Dattagamini:- clearly some intense mahabharata like situation is the context of this quote. Yes, it is very clear that the Myanmar government considers violent islamists as a threat, and they are not willing to look at Rohingyas in any shades of grey. The same can be said for islamists and religious fundamentalists all over the world, so why is this a special problem only for these myanmar monks?
Saudi-funded CJ Douchebag is lying as usual -- the original blog post that he refers to is a talk given to military cadre to motivate them to protect dharma from the Myanmar point of view. The entire talk has NOTHING to do with Rohingyas, surely a minor detail is islamist scum like C.J.Werelman. The western and islamist crowd are now fully behind making Rohingya a problem for India, when they are not, and these Bengaluru-based Think tanks seem to be aiding them in their quest. Curious.Nitin PaiVerified account @acorn 8h8 hours ago
I referred to this mindset in my @bsindia column yesterday
Retweeted CJ Werleman:
"Non-Buddhist are not human, so killing them is justified," says top Myanmar Buddhist.
https://drpaulfuller.wordpress.com/2017 ... sa-sermon/
Here is the full quote -- most of the talk was in reference to a battle between a Tamil King and Dattagamini:- clearly some intense mahabharata like situation is the context of this quote. Yes, it is very clear that the Myanmar government considers violent islamists as a threat, and they are not willing to look at Rohingyas in any shades of grey. The same can be said for islamists and religious fundamentalists all over the world, so why is this a special problem only for these myanmar monks?
There is a similarity here with the islamist system where the clergy provide the philosophical motivation to the soldiers for stability, but unlike the islamists, it is very clear that this Myanmar system is a doctrine aimed at self-defense and protecting one's land and peoples. Not the predatory kind of philosophy spelt out by the islamic or christian clergy. There are a lot of Saudi-funded scumbags in DC who go around selling islam and shariat to an uneducated public, like CJ Werelman and Nathan Lean.It has gained much attention as the Sayadaw quotes from the notorious Dutthagamani passage from the 5th Century CE Sri Lankan chronicle, the Mahavamsa, which was originally composed in Pali. The standard English translation of the Mahavamsa by Wilhelm Geiger is available here.
(snip)
We are talking about the powers of the Dhamma. The victory of this battle is due to the power/quality of the Dhamma over King Duttagamani. The battle was won because of the effects of the power of the Dhamma. And as a result of the unity of the monks in fighting the battle together, the battle was over. That was how they had a landslide victory in beating the invaders.
(snip)
The Arahants answered that “even though millions of beings had been destroyed, there was only one and a half human beings who is a genuine being. There was only one and a half beings who can be regarded as a human being. Out of these Tamil invaders, there was only one who had adopted the five precepts, and one who had adopted the five precepts and taken the three refuges in the Buddha, the Dhamma and the Sangha. Therefore, there was only one and a half human beings.
(snip)
The monks see that. They have a big heart for the country. Land, water and sky. One should not lack anything, no omissions. Our Land should be protected. Our water should be protected thoroughly including the Straits. Don’t take anything for granted.
07:41-07:43 Do not worry. No matter how much you have to fight, how much you have to shoot them, just remember what was being said earlier. There are only one and a half beings that can be regarded as human beings. The persons who cannot be called human beings are not important.
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periaswamy
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Re: The Rohingya Menace
I really have to wonder why these litfest fiberal crowd in such Indian "think tanks" are trying to make this Rohingya problem an Indian one -- this one think tank clearly has connections with the nehru-pasand babucracy in New Delhi, given how they get access to people like Amrullah Saleh and other international political personalities. Not to mention bleeding-heart cretinousness that accompanies the "strategic thoughts" of Nehru Acolytes. @TakshashilaInst
"The Rohingya exodus is a text book example of ethnic cleansing" - The United Nations. What do you think? Join the Cogitatum and be a part of the online brainstorm.
Is some section of Indian babucracy trying to make the Rohingyas an Indian issue? Aren't they abusing their position by creating and pushing policy that goes against what the government of the day? If I had seen these mofos pay half as much attention to ethnic cleaning that has happened in Kashmir, this kind of excessive concern for the rohingyas would be understandable.
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periaswamy
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Re: The Rohingya Menace
del. already posted link
Last edited by periaswamy on 14 Nov 2017 20:28, edited 2 times in total.
Re: The Rohingya Menace
The govt is really pu$$yfooting on this, just as it's doing on many other indic matters.
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periaswamy
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Re: The Rohingya Menace
I don't see why the Indian govt. has to do anything more than treat it as a Myanmar-BD problem, rather than insinuating itself into the situation as recommended by that cretin from Takshashila Institution. Glad to note that this kind of nonsense has no buyers from the Indian public, other than the left-fiberal class that reads english newspapers. My question is what are the retired cabinet-secretariat types doing in these Think Tank events regarding the Rohingyas, misleading the public on what the Indian interests are in this situation with the whole "human rights are more important" charade.
Re: The Rohingya Menace
Sai Deepak, well known indic lawyer at around 50 mins says there are 7 CRORE illegal BDs. I look at RMs as a subset of solving whole illegal immigration problem.
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periaswamy
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Re: The Rohingya Menace
Myanmar denies atrocities
Good response by Myanmar. The meddling, murderous "UN human rights committee" scumbags from KSA and Jordan and their equally genocidal US/EU buddies in the UN "human rights" committees can only point fingers and make empty threats, as long as asian nations remain united behind Myanmar.
Good response by Myanmar. The meddling, murderous "UN human rights committee" scumbags from KSA and Jordan and their equally genocidal US/EU buddies in the UN "human rights" committees can only point fingers and make empty threats, as long as asian nations remain united behind Myanmar.