Civil Aviation Development & Discussion

Suraj · Post by **Suraj** » 13 Dec 2017 02:31

Mumbai doesn't merely have one runway - it just took over the world record for the most number of flights ever operated by an airport with just one runway, in 24hrs:
Mumbai Airport breaks world record: 969 flights in 24hrs

Rising incomes and cheaper fares offered by budget carriers are fueling air travel in India, an aviation market set to be the third biggest behind China and the U.S.

In signs traffic is surging, Mumbai on Friday handled 969 flights in a 24-hour period, a world record for an airport that operates only one runway at any given point of time, the Times of India reported Sunday, citing an official at the Mumbai International Airport Ltd. The aim is to reach 1,000 aircraft movements, the official told the newspaper.

I think London Gatwick Airport was the previous long time record holder.

nachiket · Post by **nachiket** » 13 Dec 2017 03:08

Suraj wrote:Mumbai doesn't merely have one runway - it just took over the world record for the most number of flights ever operated by an airport with just one runway, in 24hrs:

In signs traffic is surging, Mumbai on Friday handled 969 flights in a 24-hour period, a world record for an airport that operates only one runway at any given point of time

Hats off to the air and ground controllers!

Meanwhile, one piece of good news is this:

Mumbai Trans Harbour Link to transform the city’s commute
MTHL construction contracts have been finally awarded and construction can now begin. Reason this is relevant here is that this is essential for the Navi Mumbai airport to be viable. Otherwise the long travel time from the new airport to the city would have made airlines unwilling to shift.

This image shows the approximate locations of the old and new airports and the MTHL.

Mort Walker · Post by **Mort Walker** » 13 Dec 2017 10:31

nachiket wrote:
Suraj wrote:Mumbai doesn't merely have one runway - it just took over the world record for the most number of flights ever operated by an airport with just one runway, in 24hrs:

In signs traffic is surging, Mumbai on Friday handled 969 flights in a 24-hour period, a world record for an airport that operates only one runway at any given point of time
Hats off to the air and ground controllers!

And to the pilots for not making an error! Really bad errors like Charkhi-Dadri mid air collision in 1996 caused by the Kazak pilot not following ATC instructions are always in the back of the mind.

Zynda · Post by **Zynda** » 23 Dec 2017 19:47

First SSJ100 with composite winglets (Sukhoi refers to them as Sabrelets!).

srin · Post by **srin** » 24 Dec 2017 17:06

Not sure if this was posted.

Advantage UDAN, as ‘civilian’ Dornier takes off

On Friday, a Dornier 228 aircraft, manufactured by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited, took off from Kanpur heading to Nashik. The first civilian aircraft to be produced and certified in India, this Dornier is now available for commerical sale and could end up giving a lift to the ‘Make in India’ programme as also the Centre’s regional connectivity scheme called UDAN for Ude Desh Ka Aam Nagrik.

Confirming the development, a senior HAL official told BusinessLine that the ‘type certification’ was approved by the DGCA in the last few days.

Such a certification implies means that the DGCA approves the technical and performance specifications of the civilian Dornier aircraft produced by HAL.

“The certification means that the product complies with the various regulations of the aviation regulator and has been approved for operations with an Indian registration,” the official said.

The 19-seater aircraft can fly up to 700 km on full load and is capable of flying at night. This is a non-pressurised aircraft and is ideal for regional flights. It is a multi-purpose aircraft which can be used to ferry VVIPs, business people to their plants, and also be used as an air ambulance, said HAL officials.

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 24 Dec 2017 17:42

Good one. What happened to saras? It was supposed to fly in Oct. No news.

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 25 Dec 2017 11:38

srin wrote:Not sure if this was posted.

Advantage UDAN, as ‘civilian’ Dornier takes off
On Friday, a Dornier 228 aircraft, manufactured by Hindustan Aeronautics Limited, took off from Kanpur heading to Nashik. The first civilian aircraft to be produced and certified in India, this Dornier is now available for commerical sale and could end up giving a lift to the ‘Make in India’ programme as also the Centre’s regional connectivity scheme called UDAN for Ude Desh Ka Aam Nagrik.

Confirming the development, a senior HAL official told BusinessLine that the ‘type certification’ was approved by the DGCA in the last few days.

Such a certification implies means that the DGCA approves the technical and performance specifications of the civilian Dornier aircraft produced by HAL.

“The certification means that the product complies with the various regulations of the aviation regulator and has been approved for operations with an Indian registration,” the official said.

The 19-seater aircraft can fly up to 700 km on full load and is capable of flying at night. This is a non-pressurised aircraft and is ideal for regional flights. It is a multi-purpose aircraft which can be used to ferry VVIPs, business people to their plants, and also be used as an air ambulance, said HAL officials.

The Do 228 has been around in India since 1985 and it is now a venerable oldie that is a bit long in the tooth.

we have been making both the engine and the air frame for decades now.

should we, at least, not have had a developed version or a larger offshoot of this project by now??

Why is it only being civil certified now??

Meanwhile, the hans flew this on Sunday

CHINA'S FIRST HOMEGROWN AMPHIBIOUS AIRCRAFT MAKES MAIDEN FLIGHT

CHINA'S FIRST HOMEGROWN AMPHIBIOUS AIRCRAFT MAKES MAIDEN FLIGHT

China's first indigenous amphibious aircraft, believed to be the world's largest, completed its maiden flight on Sunday, taking off from Zhuhai, the coastal city off the disputed South China Sea.

China is engaged in the military build-up and the successful flight by the aircraft will add to Beijing's might as it grows assertive in its territorial claims in the South China Sea.

The aircraft AG600, code-named "Kunlong", successfully soared into the sky from the Jinwan Civil Aviation Airport. The flight lasted about one hour.

Zhuhai is a port in Guangdong province.

"Its successful maiden flight makes China among the world's few countries capable of developing a large amphibious aircraft," Xinhua news agency quoted Huang Lingcai, chief designer of AG600, as saying.

The aircraft, powered by four domestically-built turboprop engines, has a 39.6-metre-long fuselage and a 38.8-metre wingspan, said its developer, the state-owned Aviation Industry Corporation of China (AVIC).

According to the AVIC source, the amphibious aircraft, with a maximum take-off weight of 53.5 tonnes and a top cruising speed of 500 km per hour, can fly for 12 hours at a time.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 25 Dec 2017 14:47

we have never made the dornier's garrett engine. at best some servicing facility is there.

brvarsh · Post by **brvarsh** » 26 Dec 2017 09:49

Was the Dornier's engine built by HAL a licensed manufacturer or did HAL built a complete "Made in India" Engine for it at some point? I am repeating what JayS asked earlier - What happened to Saras? Will it even fly?

Vips · Post by **Vips** » 26 Dec 2017 18:32

If Dornier was not certified for civil use then how the heck did Vayudoot fly it on its routes? IIRC Vayudoot did fly some HAL assembled planes.

ashishvikas · Post by **ashishvikas** » 26 Dec 2017 21:14

Upgraded Saras PT1N all set for maiden flight in January

By Anantha Krishnan M
26 Dec 2017

http://english.mathrubhumi.com/mobile/n ... -1.2483386

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 26 Dec 2017 22:02

HAL got DGCA certification for it DO-228 civil version. Another 19 seater.

Mahindra can offer the 8 and 10 seaters.

In a short time, Mahindra can also offer Hansa NG and NM5.

But, what next?

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 26 Dec 2017 22:07

brvarsh wrote:Was the Dornier's engine built by HAL a licensed manufacturer or did HAL built a complete "Made in India" Engine for it at some point? I am repeating what JayS asked earlier - What happened to Saras? Will it even fly?

there is still and were many vested interests against the Do228 flying for civil airlines in India.

Many a "reputed" R&D big gun is/was fearful of their pattas getting cut.

We could have had a "developed" version of the airplane flying by now and completely made in India and learned so much in the bargain.

Its deployment as a feeder/regional route aircraft was a no brainer and truly we did not have the brains to look ahead. we are truly parochial and blinkered in our national outlook.

we are experts in अपने पैरों पर कुल्हाड़ी मारना onlee.

srin · Post by **srin** » 26 Dec 2017 22:12

^^^ c-295

chetak · Post by **chetak** » 26 Dec 2017 22:25

Singha wrote:we have never made the dornier's garrett engine. at best some servicing facility is there.

GARRETT TPE 331-5 - Hindustan Aeronautics Limited
http://www.hal-india.com/Product_Detail ... y=&CKey=29
The Garrett TPE 331-5 Turbo prop Engine is being manufactured, overhauled and repaired for various Customers under licence from Garrett Engine Division of ... belongs to one of the most popular series of small Turbo prop Engines powering a large number of Commuter and Corporate Aircraft such as Dornier DO-228.

srin · Post by **srin** » 26 Dec 2017 22:30

ashishvikas wrote:Upgraded Saras PT1N all set for maiden flight in January

By Anantha Krishnan M
26 Dec 2017

http://english.mathrubhumi.com/mobile/n ... -1.2483386

Searched Google News for the "NAL Saras" ...
May 11, 2017: India's homemade Saras aircraft may take off in June

"The engine tests have already begun. The low-speed taxi and high-speed taxi trials are expected to be completed by the end of this month. After that, the ASTE will do the first flight most probably in the first week of June," TOI quoted NAL Director Jitendra J Jadhav, as saying.

May 23, 2017: 8 YEARS AFTER, SARAS SET TO TAKE OFF AGAIN

“NAL has completed more than 15 engine ground runs of SARAS PT1N aircraft. We had some technical issues but now we have overcome those and the aircraft has been moved to ASTE (Aircraft Systems and Training Establishment) for carrying out Low Speed Taxi Trials (LSTT) and High Speed Taxi Trials (HSTT). The process is expected to be completed by end of June and SARAS PT1N flight is expected in early July if all goes well,” NAL, director, Jitendra J Jadhav said.

Sep 09, 2017: NAL starts taxi trials of improved Saras

A modified prototype of the 14-seater transport aircraft started making low-speed taxi trials in early August. Air Force pilots have completed five runs of around 45 minutes each and will next move on to high-speed taxi tests, according to Jitendra Jadhav, Director, National Aerospace Laboratories, under the Council for Scientific & Industrial Research (CSIR).
Dr. Jadhav said, “We plan to fly the aircraft in the first week of October after the high speed taxi trials are completed. We made more than 10 modifications since the accident. The performance of the plane’s systems after the modification will be evaluated during the flights.”

Sep 12, 2017: RAINS PLAY SPOILSPORT TO SARAS FLIGHT PLANS

“There were a couple of technical issues with the aircraft that have delayed the trials and the weather too has not been conducive to carry out High Speed Taxi Trials. It has been raining non- stop every other day and due to waterlogging at the HAL Airport due to heavy downpour, it is not wise to carry out these trials,” an official said.
As per the original plan, the High Speed Taxi Trials were initially expected to be completed by the end of June and the aircraft was to take to the skies in July.
However, the official added the High Speed Taxi Trials of the aircraft would be conducted only in the first week of October now. “Upon completion of the High Speed Taxi Trials in October and after analysing various parameters, we will conduct the maiden flight of the modified SARAS,” he said.

And now ...
Dec 26, 2017: Upgraded Saras PT1N all set for maiden flight in January

The first flight could be any time during the first/second week of January 2018. What separates the PT1N now from the maiden flight are a SRB (Safety ...

The ETA for the first flight has been slipping quite steadily. In May, they thought they could do it the next month and it is atleast 6 months delayed.
I wonder what ails the Saras project. Is it funds ? Do they have some technical difficulty they couldn't overcome ?

More importantly, do we need Saras ?

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 26 Dec 2017 23:56

Yes.

Also NAL director should not give flight test date one month after the taxi trials are over as data evaluation and potential fixes takes time. Also rains delayed the high speed trials.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 27 Dec 2017 02:23

Saras is the right plane with the wrong organization. Why does spending only 7 crores more important than getting the plane off the ground immediately. I hope it is transferred to HAL or MAPL at the earliest.

srin wrote:^^^ c-295

That's primarily a transport plane. I was speaking of civilian planes.

Right now there are two games in town:
1. Reliance + Antonov + HAL
2. TASL + NAL + HAL

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 27 Dec 2017 05:50

Indranil wrote:Saras is the right plane with the wrong organization. Why does spending only 7 crores more important than getting the plane off the ground immediately. I hope it is transferred to HAL or MAPL at the earliest.

srin wrote:^^^ c-295
That's primarily a transport plane. I was speaking of civilian planes.

Right now there are two games in town:
1. Reliance + Antonov + HAL
2. TASL + NAL + HAL

Here are a few low hanging fruits:
1. HAL has said that there is a lot of life left in the HS748. Well, if IAF wants to retire them early, get them reengine them and resell them. At least get the young to study it well instead of a designing an amphib with oars.
2. License the design of the BAe ATP/J61 (upgrade of the HS748) is BAe is ready to sell. Modernize them and have fun.
3. Get the Dornier 428/528/728/928 series. Even better planes in search of funding. Dornier wants to sell.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 27 Dec 2017 06:56

srin wrote: More importantly, do we need Saras ?

Is this a serious question? This is the only India designed passenger plane that ever flew. Do we need it?

Such questions are, of course perfectly relevant as personal thoughts and questions. But why is it that we get all upset when someone asks similar questions about Tejas. Those questions surely as equally relevant as "personal thoughts and questions" . Or if someone says Tejas no good , buy established MiG 29?

There is a news item in Vayu about the new Japanese C-2 transport aircraft making its first flight. Japan has a requirement for about 30-40

Now how many aero geniuses do we have on BRF who will tell us that an entire new aircraft for a production run of 30-40 is a complete waste - and follow that up with a series of economic arguments - Dollars this , Yen that to show that the Japanese are stupid.

Vivek K · Post by **Vivek K** » 27 Dec 2017 07:14

Well said hakim ji. A nation of our size must possess capabilities in every segment.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 27 Dec 2017 07:36

From March 2017 Livefist
https://www.livefistdefence.com/2017/03 ... craft.html

The eight year struggle to keep the aircraft project alive has largely remained unknown, with few details emerging from a project that was all but written off. Livefist has now had a chance to interview the new chief of the agency that is fighting to meet a June-July target to get a modified first prototype (See photo) back in the air. In a very candid and wide-ranging interview to Livefist, his first since taking over as director of the National Aerospace Laboratories (CSIR-NAL), Jitendra J. Jadhav provides the first detailed inside view of the Saras’ enormously difficult journey from death, back to life. Our interaction in full:

Why has it taken eight years for the SARAS programme to be in a position to return to flight test?

After the unfortunate accident on 6th March, 2009, all the activities related to SARAS aircraft had to be stopped till completion of accident investigation by DGCA and subsequent implementation of recommendations thereon. The investigation absolved CSIR-NAL of any design deficiencies, but attributed the cause to procedural deficiencies. Other major factors for this delay in resumption of programme were: Change of Regulatory body from DGCA to CEMILAC to meet certification requirements of IAF as the possible launch customer; re-orientation time for CSIR-NAL to the procedures of military certification agency and the time for the regulatory body to get a grasp on the project, as the entry was lateral and at an advanced stage of project. By the time the first prototype was modified and ready for Taxi trials at the end of year 2013, the project had reached its date of completion and CSIR-NAL had to wait for a formal approval from Govt to continue further. This was crucial as the project had important stake holders like HAL, IAF, CEMILAC and DGAQA towards further flight testing and certification of SARAS.

What challenges have been faced by the programme in the last eight years, including the lessons learned from the 2009 accident?

The main challenges faced were / are heavy attrition of trained human resources, obsolescence of critical aircraft systems and LRU’s, vendor reluctance to respond to CSIR-NAL minimal requirements (which is specific to prototype development wherein only one or two systems are built), availability of experienced Test pilots for twin-turboprop configurations for full project duration, availability of dedicated staff from regulatory body due to their preoccupation in several projects of national importance and fund availability for prototype development activity with inbuilt risk of failures.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 27 Dec 2017 09:35

^^ the main challenges above would be largely mitigated if HAL were running the show because they give large orders to OEMs and subsystem vendors, can do a lot of stuff inhouse and can always twist some arms gently for small special jobs as a favour.

a science lab cannot productionize this thing for sure.

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 27 Dec 2017 10:11

I wish the Saras all the best. Off late I have been studying the Avanti P 180 (I, II, EVO variants) a lot. More from Market perspective than technology perspective. The "pusher type" configuration for a light twin turbo-prop meant for heavy duty, short haul, multiple landings / take off cycles in short burst is not a must have.

The Piaggio Avanti has not really done well. 221 sold so far and launched in 1986. Avantair, the largest Avanti operator (57 of them) folded up. Avanti itself survives on the back of a Dubai Sheikh funding it. The EVO since its launch in 2015 has sold 06. Its not that the Avanti is not good. Actually, its Deluxe, but the passengers do not adjust well to radical designs. Aviation / Aerospace sits in a strange spot on the perception - reality matrix. Passengers need to trust the safety of the machine. Avanti is safe but the design too uncommon.

This problem of passenger not feeling safe in light - small planes has been voiced on BRF too. Old timers will remember Vayudoot and the first Do 228 experience of the Indian Public. Light Airplanes need to be designed and appear to the user as a safe and reliable machine more than the heavier machines.

The straight wing, twin turbo props in front is always more comforting than those strange "backward facing engines"

Do we need the Saras? Sure we do. The regional connectivity scheme needs those 19 - 20 seater planes. Presently in the import market we have the Twin Otter, Beech 1900 D (out of production) and the PZL M 28 Skytruck which are competing for the Indian market. I am waiting for Do 228 NG to break a coconut somewhere. The Saras will be great. But how I wish they had a conventional turbo prop design. Why, really why, did they have to experiment with this?

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 27 Dec 2017 11:58

We already have the answer for 18+ seaters in the DO-228.A mystery as to why we've never leveraged the same being the only manufacturer of the type which RUAG sells internationally.The DO is ideal for the UDAN role,regional connectivity to Tier-2/3 ,tourist/pilgrim destinations. The amphib variant could be built too,but a Chin co. seems to have bought the rights! I'm not sure about the future prospects of Saras if it is going to compete with the DO,which has a proven track record.Secondly,Saras has a unit cost of around $22M,when compared with just under $9M for a slightly larger DO-228! (Wiki).2 Dorniers for the price of one Saras is a more attractive bet.Designwise too,the overwing config of the DO is a safer option when it is operating from rough strips

Good to hear that the venerable HS-748s still have life left in them.The med. transport role for the moment is taken care of by the AN-32 upgrades (100 or so),but with the canning of the MTA,nothing seems to have taken its place.Is the req. still there or has it been given a decent burial? The C-295 is an LTA and there hasn't been that much movement on that front.Interestingly,Kawasaki's new med. transport,the C-1 flew to Dubai via India (Vayu).It looks quite similar to the earlier MTA concept.If we're going to develop a new MTA alone or with a partner (the C-1 is already a done design,but could enhance Indo-Nippon relations and a more useful build-in-India buy than the US-2),the work should start now so that in a decade's time when AN-32s start retiring,it will be in production,perhaps even before.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 27 Dec 2017 12:10

It is as if we were waiting for this

Upgraded Saras PT1N all set for maiden flight in January......

Cannot post the article in full but very encouraging progress. BTW, this process of sequential approval should be tweaked in a way that automatic approvals are granted way before based on certain deliverables

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 27 Dec 2017 13:17

Deejay,

You missed out on the Turbolet. Then there are the Chinese and Indonesian entries.

Mahindra can bring the Airvan 18 (reengined Nomad) to the party. But of all the 19-seaters in town, only Saras has a pressurized cabin. They are studying putting elliptical winglets on the same for better performance.

The choice of the pusher lies in the history of the program. Interestingly even Embraer went down the same path with its Vector.

deejay · Post by **deejay** » 27 Dec 2017 14:12

^I only mentioned the types for which NOC for import has been applied so far in the 19-20 seater category. NAL Saras is pressurized and an advantage but it has miles to go for certification and production.

There is a new offering coming from Textron Aviation - the Skycourier - Cessna 408. That is likely to be certified by 2019-2020 and already has a large order from FedEx.

Embraer had previous experience in designing and building its own passenger plane - the 30 Seat Brasillia. Even then the progamme for Vector got cancelled due to high technology costs (or so the wiki says). Important to note here that P 180 Avanti is equally saddled by high costs. It has a performance in range in payload slightly better than the King Air 200 (250) but costs in acquisition are closer to CJ or CJ 2 when they were in production. Even operating costs are thereabout.

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 27 Dec 2017 14:31

That’s true.

By the way, for me the more interesting space is the 30-seater. If we do go through a boom in regional air connectivity, then we will surely graduate in volume requirments to 30-seaters, to 50 people, and so on.

Currently, there is no 30-seater in the market because that feeder requirement got exhausted in US and Europe around 2000. We are going to regenerate that market. A great opportunity for us to develop/modernize an airplane for the same.

suryag · Post by **suryag** » 27 Dec 2017 15:10

Saras is very important in terms of the experience to be gained out of certification from CEMILAC and DGCA and i hope it flies in the next week or two as mentioned in he matrubhumi articlet. It will iron out a lot of opens and may pave way for more civil aircraft programs. BTW, 3-4k crores shouldnt be a big amount of money for the famed private players in india, has there a PPP model for design ever been tried ?

Philip · Post by **Philip** » 27 Dec 2017 16:50

Indy,there is an aircraft,perfect for the 30 seater role. Strange that I've often thought about this unfilled opportunity.The SU-80,shown at Paris in 2005 is a 28/30 seater.There was a model at a prev. airshow.I have a brochure somewhere.2 pilots and one cabin attendant.Toilet.Twin boom,twin-engined turboprop,something similar to the Shorts Skyvan (cabin) ,xcpt. that it has a twin boom.A tail ramp for cargo too.Combo of cargo and pax possible.Ideal for the Tier2/3 tourist destinations. Not many built,8 for the Kazakhs. We could open a line here.Armed version also available.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sukhoi_Su-80

General characteristics

Crew: 2
Capacity: 30
Length: 18.26 m (59 ft 10 in)
Wingspan: 23.18 m (76 ft 4 in)
Height: 5.74 m (18 ft 8 in)
Wing area: 44.36 m² (477 ft²)
Empty weight: 8,350 kg (18,408 lb)
Max. takeoff weight: 14,200 kg (31,305 lb)
Powerplant: 2 × General Electric CT7-9B turboprop, 1,305 kW (1,750 hp) each
Performance

Never exceed speed: 575 km/h (358 mph; 311 kn)
Maximum speed: 470 km/h (292 mph; 254 kn)
Cruise speed: 430 km/h (267 mph; 232 kn)
Range: 1,300 km (810 mi; 700 nmi) with 30 passengers
Service ceiling: 8,000 m (25,000 ft)
Takeoff run: 830 m
Landing run: 530 m

A_Gupta · Post by **A_Gupta** » 04 Jan 2018 17:14

http://www.financialexpress.com/industr ... c/1001483/

The aviation market has now put in a robust year-on-year growth consecutively over the last three years on the back of a strong domestic demand. Having grown 20 percent and 18.8 percent during FY2016-17 and FY2015-16 respectively in terms of passengers carried by Indian airlines and crossing the 100-million-flier mark in 2016, India has become the third largest domestic aviation market in the world – and among the markets that grew the fastest. In the first eight months alone of FY 2017-18, the number of domestic passengers carried were 78.65 million passengers. As per IATA, the country is set to be the third-largest aviation market by 2025 after China and the United States, surpassing countries such as UK, Japan, Spain and Germany.

chola · Post by **chola** » 06 Jan 2018 18:07

Seriously, SA is widely considered the best airline in the world and it would do wonders for AI.

Secondly, Tata is partnering. What a great story line. Sixty years after AI was taken from them and nationalized, Tata is back to take care of its progeny after years of babus making a mess of it.

http://m.hindustantimes.com/business-ne ... 50P0H.html

Singapore airlines open to bidding for Air India: Vistara CEO
Air India had total debt of about Rs 48,877 crore at the end of March 2017 -- Rs 17,360 crore of aircraft loans and Rs 31,517 crore of working capital loans.

Singapore Airlines has an open mind on bidding for Air India Ltd, making it the first foreign airline to express an interest in looking at India’s national carrier.

“I think Singapore Airlines has an open mind. It really depends eventually on whether there is a business case. I don’t think we know enough at this moment,” Leslie Thng, chief executive officer of Vistara, a joint venture between Tata Sons Ltd and Singapore Airlines, told reporters at a press briefing.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 06 Jan 2018 21:53

Saar you have yellow fever bias

chola · Post by **chola** » 06 Jan 2018 23:06

Guilty as charged. But Singapore Air does have great ratings so the Singapore Girls are just coincidental. For those really into yellow fever, I suggest VietAir and their bikini stewardesses (for real!)

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 07 Jan 2018 17:32

Mort Walker wrote:
nachiket wrote: Hats off to the air and ground controllers!

And to the pilots for not making an error! Really bad errors like Charkhi-Dadri mid air collision in 1996 caused by the Kazak pilot not following ATC instructions are always in the back of the mind.

One has to question. why Mumbai has only one runway? What were they thinking when it was planned? Even modern airport in India has one runway. Most stupid thing.

rsingh · Post by **rsingh** » 07 Jan 2018 17:46

chola wrote:Guilty as charged. But Singapore Air does have great ratings so the Singapore Girls are just coincidental. For those really into yellow fever, I suggest VietAir and their bikini stewardesses (for real!)

Do they hab cattle class as well? I wonder if heart patient are allowed

chola · Post by **chola** » 07 Jan 2018 17:59

rsingh wrote:
One has to question. why Mumbai has only one runway? What were they thinking when it was planned? Even modern airport in India has one runway. Most stupid thing.

Here you go. I remember reading this and thought it was typically desi — misplacing priorities.

https://www.bangaloreaviation.com/2017/ ... years.html

Only one runway in 50 years. India’s lagging airport expansion.

...

Airport capacity
The ability of airports to accommodate flights depends on three major elements:

*Runway and taxiway capacity determine the number of aircraft movements (ATMs or landings and departures) per hour that can be accommodated

*Airside infrastructure includes the size of the aprons, number of parking bays, contact (aero-bridge) stands, non-contact (ladder) stands, air traffic control, etc.

*Terminal capacity determines the number of passengers that can pass through the terminal(s).

The weak link – runway capacity

Like the strength of a chain depending on its weakest link, the smallest of the above three elements determines the final capacity of an airport. Airport companies have lavishly spent on creating glitzy terminals, but have failed to provide a proportionate share of their capital expenditure to runway and airside capacity.

...

The airport disconnect: fancy terminals but no new runways

Passenger demand continues to grow. Yet airports are focused on building larger and fancier terminals. In fact, the newer terminals look like shopping malls with boarding gates attached, rather than the other way around. Unfortunately, this situation is driven by non-aeronautical revenues being critical to airport profitability. Cost over-runs are common, and passengers are often inconvenienced by having to pay more, walk more, and wait more.

chola · Post by **chola** » 07 Jan 2018 18:03

rsingh wrote:
chola wrote:Guilty as charged. But Singapore Air does have great ratings so the Singapore Girls are just coincidental. For those really into yellow fever, I suggest VietAir and their bikini stewardesses (for real!)
Do they hab cattle class as well? I wonder if heart patient are allowed

All airliners come fully equipped with defibrillators. So no problem, Saar!

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 07 Jan 2018 18:16

Re Pusher config in Saras, the discussion that was going on in RnD thread. I think folks are hyperventilating over a non-issue. Rear mounted engines make a lot of sense for smaller aircraft like Saras. From there to pusher config is only a small step. Any config chosen would have pros and cons anyway and cons would need to be dealt with. Only designers would know all trade offs made.

As such its in NAL's DNA to go for TFTA solutions. Its a premier Aerospace "Lab" of India. They know they can deal with it. If one wanted proper commercial project out of Saras, NAL was a wrong choice for it always. To their credit, at least they dreamt of building an aircraft like Saras all by themselves without much background (and developed some awesome technology in composite wing making for example) when no one would touch it by even a mile long pole. And its not like GOI has flooded the project with funds. They have been running on fumes.