Indian Foreign Policy

[Philip]

.

[Philip]

Ramana, I think you're right.Penetration by the US establishment has been a factor in Indo-Pak wars.Remember the alleged mole in Mrs.G's cabinet? During the SL crisis we had a RAW gent who went over to the CiA caught literally with his pants down...! Before that we had the Larkins' brothers spying for the French and not too long ago the missing RAW agent who allegedly fled to the US.tx to the CIA. Recently the GOI stopped the practice of serving service officers getting freebie courses in the West .The GOI felt that they were being indoctrinated too much.The SC case about an IN admiral deliberately ruining the careers of the Ru trained submarines of our N-subs by giving the adverse remarks in their confidential postings! He was also fined 5 lakhs.There's much skullduggery around with so much at stake.

There was also the amazing case of a sr. diplomat posted to an African country who repeatedly refused to return , stayed on enjoying his status at govt. expense.I can't recollect how that one ended.

[arun]

X Posted from the India-Russia: News & Analysis thread.

Regards the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG), the stench of Russian duplicity hangs heavy in the air.

In the Terrorist Fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan Russia’s envoy says Russia supports criteria-based approach for inclusion of non-NPT states in NSG which is the Peoples Republic of China stratagem to to block India by promoting the Islamic Republic’s candidature.

Russia not opposed to Pakistan’s NSG candidature: envoy

ISLAMABAD: Russia is not opposed to Pakistan’s Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG) candidature and has no intention to block it, Russian envoy Pavel Didkovsky told a conference in Islamabad on Friday.

Speaking at the seminar on ‘Disarmament, Non-Proliferation and Strategic Stability’ that had been organised by Strategic Vision Institute (SVI), Pavel Didkovsky, first secretary at Russian Embassy, underlined the possibility of a criteria-based approach for inclusion of non-NPT states in NSG. ……………………….

Pakistan Today

Earlier in India Russia's deputy foreign minister Sergey Ryabkov was reported as indicating that Russia was not for a criteria-based approach for inclusion of non-NPT states in NSG . Clearly that was not the case:

NEW DELHI: Even as China continues to stall India's Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG) membership+ , Russia has come out strongly in support of India saying that India's application cannot be "interlinked" with that of Pakistan and that Moscow is discussing the issue with Beijing at different levels. China has favoured a criteria-based approach for expansion of the 48-member group, which controls international nuclear commerce, instead of one based on merit, in what India sees an attempt to draw a false equivalence between India's case and Pakistan's.
The issue again came up for discussion on Wednesday as Russia's deputy foreign minister Sergey Ryabkov met foreign secretary S Jaishankar. "We recognise that at the moment there is no unanimity on Pakistan's application and that the same cannot be interlinked with India's," said Ryabkov, after his meeting with Jaishankar.
This is probably the first time that a top Russian diplomat has publicly drawn attention to the futility of juxtaposing the 2 cases. "We know about the difficulties involved but unlike some other countries, who only speak, we are making practical efforts...we are discussing it with China at different levels,'' he added.

Times Of India

India will do well to take the following part of Ryabakov’s statement with an ocean load of salt:

While Ryabkov admitted that Russia was looking to build ties with Pakistan, a country he described as taking great interest in multilateral forums, he said Russia had no ``hidden agenda'' in its dealings with Islamabad. ``I can assure you that Russia's ties with no country in the world will come at the expense of its relationship with India,'' said Ryabkov.

Times Of India

[kit]

X Posted from the India-Russia: News & Analysis thread.

Regards the Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG), the stench of Russian duplicity hangs heavy in the air.

In the Terrorist Fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan Russia’s envoy says Russia supports criteria-based approach for inclusion of non-NPT states in NSG which is the Peoples Republic of China stratagem to to block India by promoting the Islamic Republic’s candidature.

Russia not opposed to Pakistan’s NSG candidature: envoy

ISLAMABAD: Russia is not opposed to Pakistan’s Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG) candidature and has no intention to block it, Russian envoy Pavel Didkovsky told a conference in Islamabad on Friday.

Speaking at the seminar on ‘Disarmament, Non-Proliferation and Strategic Stability’ that had been organised by Strategic Vision Institute (SVI), Pavel Didkovsky, first secretary at Russian Embassy, underlined the possibility of a criteria-based approach for inclusion of non-NPT states in NSG. ……………………….

Pakistan Today

Earlier in India Russia's deputy foreign minister Sergey Ryabkov was reported as indicating that Russia was not for a criteria-based approach for inclusion of non-NPT states in NSG . Clearly that was not the case:

NEW DELHI: Even as China continues to stall India's Nuclear Suppliers Group (NSG) membership+ , Russia has come out strongly in support of India saying that India's application cannot be "interlinked" with that of Pakistan and that Moscow is discussing the issue with Beijing at different levels. China has favoured a criteria-based approach for expansion of the 48-member group, which controls international nuclear commerce, instead of one based on merit, in what India sees an attempt to draw a false equivalence between India's case and Pakistan's.
The issue again came up for discussion on Wednesday as Russia's deputy foreign minister Sergey Ryabkov met foreign secretary S Jaishankar. "We recognise that at the moment there is no unanimity on Pakistan's application and that the same cannot be interlinked with India's," said Ryabkov, after his meeting with Jaishankar.
This is probably the first time that a top Russian diplomat has publicly drawn attention to the futility of juxtaposing the 2 cases. "We know about the difficulties involved but unlike some other countries, who only speak, we are making practical efforts...we are discussing it with China at different levels,'' he added.

Times Of India

India will do well to take the following part of Ryabakov’s statement with an ocean load of salt:

While Ryabkov admitted that Russia was looking to build ties with Pakistan, a country he described as taking great interest in multilateral forums, he said Russia had no ``hidden agenda'' in its dealings with Islamabad. ``I can assure you that Russia's ties with no country in the world will come at the expense of its relationship with India,'' said Ryabkov.

Times Of India

Russia would more likely behave like an ex lover !! .. difficult to let go and has a long history

[kit]

X-post from the Tracking India's Membership...thread

It appears that a formal offer was indeed made to Nehru for a seat at the UN P5 and Nehru turned down the "American bait"

When Nehru Refused American Bait on a Permanent Seat for India at the UN

Letters between Nehru and India’s ambassador in the US shed light on his stand that while India was “certainly entitled to a permanent seat in the security council,” it would be dangerous for this to come at the cost of China.

An excerpt from one of Nehru's letter to his sister whoa was the Indian ambassador to the US

In your letter you mention that the State Department is trying to unseat China as a Permanent Member of the Security Council and to put India in her place. So far as we are concerned, we are not going to countenance it. That would be bad from every point of view. It would be a clear affront to China and it would mean some kind of a break between us and China. I suppose the state department would not like that, but we have no intention of following that course. We shall go on pressing for China’s admission in the UN and the Security Council. I suppose that a crisis will come during the next sessions of the General Assembly of the UN on this issue. The people’s government of China is sending a full delegation there. If they fail to get in there will be trouble which might even result in the USSR and some other countries finally quitting the UN. That may please the State Department, but it would mean the end of the UN as we have known it. That would also mean a further drift towards war.

Do read the whole article

I wonder what other skeletons are hiding in the closet

" dangerous / not good for the world " was what he meant .. Nehru wanted to be a "world" statesman not an Indian statesman ., the Mahatma knew that well., while Bose was the other extreme patriot . Nehru was in a way responsible for the "democratic" ideals that shaped quite a bit of Indian foreign policy that is now slowly being rewritten., the republican ideals were diluted quite a bit. Wonder how history would have played out if it was Bose who became PM !!

[komal]

Whatever else Bose/Patel would have done as PM, one thing for sure is that they would not have appointed their sister to a key post as Ambassador to the USA.

That appointment speaks volumes about Nehru's commitment to 'democratic ideals'

[Vips]

Xposted from Terroristan thread:

Congress is partying, dining with pakistanis is out in open on front page of every goddamn newspaper in india. People do not read headlines they read between the lines.

slimy worm infested guest list.

did the discussions center on Indo pak peace process or the Indo pak piece process??

Check how one of the participants TCA Raghavan behaved when he was posted in Porkistan.

One had occasion to meet the former Indian High Commissioner to Pakistan, T.C.A. Raghavan, in Lahore. He came across as a moderate person allergic to hard positions and willing to understand when his Pakistani interlocutors fly off the handle.(Meaning able and ready to keep taking shit from pakistan)

In short there is a pattern where Track Thoo participants from Indian side selected are pliant and of such a mental state that they would be ready to make compromises (Vacating Siachen, Visa regime to be diluted, keeping the talks going on even if pakistan indulges and promotes terrorism in India).

Watching the NDTV/Republic TV talk show about the meeting in Aiyars house it is clear to what extent Pro Pakis these participants are. It is in your face paki agenda pushing in the name of democratic right and freedom of expression. It is sickening.

Ajay Shukla and Rahul Singh are the worst. Their congress bhakti is to be heard and seen. Rahul Singh made a complete spectacle of himself when he kept claiming it was a Private dinner and then had to admit that everybody including Mickey Mouse Singh made some sort of presentation before his lordship Kasuri on how to improve India pakistan relationship in the current environment (meaning how to take care of the Modi rule).

Check the list of the participant in the Viper abode:
We know these are all pro pakistanis:
-Aiyar, Ansari, Natwar Singh, Shukla, Raghavan, Lambah, Bhadrakumar, Prem Shankar Jha, Rahul Singh.
-Not sure about Gharekhan, Salman Haider, KS Bjapai and Deepak Kapoor.
-Not want to mention anything about Manmohan Singh as the less said about him the better.

[chetak]

Xposted from Terroristan thread:

slimy worm infested guest list.

did the discussions center on Indo pak peace process or the Indo pak piece process??

Check how one of the participants TCA Raghavan behaved when he was posted in Porkistan.

One had occasion to meet the former Indian High Commissioner to Pakistan, T.C.A. Raghavan, in Lahore. He came across as a moderate person allergic to hard positions and willing to understand when his Pakistani interlocutors fly off the handle.(Meaning able and ready to keep taking shit from pakistan)

In short there is a pattern where Track Thoo participants from Indian side selected are pliant and of such a mental state that they would be ready to make compromises (Vacating Siachen, Visa regime to be diluted, keeping the talks going on even if pakistan indulges and promotes terrorism in India).

Watching the NDTV/Republic TV talk show about the meeting in Aiyars house it is clear to what extent Pro Pakis these participants are. It is in your face paki agenda pushing in the name of democratic right and freedom of expression. It is sickening.

Ajay Shukla and Rahul Singh are the worst. Their congress bhakti is to be heard and seen. Rahul Singh made a complete spectacle of himself when he kept claiming it was a Private dinner and then had to admit that everybody including Mickey Mouse Singh made some sort of presentation before his lordship Kasuri on how to improve India pakistan relationship in the current environment (meaning how to take care of the Modi rule).

Check the list of the participant in the Viper abode:
We know these are all pro pakistanis:
-Aiyar, Ansari, Natwar Singh, Shukla, Raghavan, Lambah, Bhadrakumar, Prem Shankar Jha, Rahul Singh.
-Not sure about Gharekhan, Salman Haider, KS Bjapai and Deepak Kapoor.
-Not want to mention anything about Manmohan Singh as the less said about him the better.

the only side taken by the entire bunch of track thoo morons, no matter which side of the border their homes are is the paki side and its always against India.

India gains nothing from all this and that is exactly why the pakis and the amrekis persist with the track thoo. I think that it is high time that mms was outed for his part in all the scams along with his protector.

This time they have been caught out in public by Modi and exposed. They have behaved exactly like deer caught in the headlights. Immediate and strong denial by the traitorous, lying congis followed by mms throwing muck on the govt. Modi forcibly made them respond and admit to what was being done on the sly.

Rest assured that the govt will have a complete record of what exactly transpired at the meeting and who said what exactly.

No one has explained why they met with the enemy and fed them biryani. The paki were brazen enough to have their HC from their embassy attend this "dinner". If the same meeting had happened in pakiland with some paki hosting Indian on the sly, our HC would have been badly beaten along with the guests and at the very least, many would have wound up in hospital.

Very unusually for him, loud and foul mouthed aiyer is conspicuous by his silence.

The entire of lot attendees have been caught with their pants down and no one believes what they say.

[JE Menon]

Absolutely awesome speech by MJ Akbar...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h3BOC_0ZwBE

I think yesterday at the India Conclave 2017 of the India Foundation, midwifed by Ram Madhav RSS/BJP

[Akshay Kapoor]

Xposted from Terroristan thread:



Check how one of the participants TCA Raghavan behaved when he was posted in Porkistan.

One had occasion to meet the former Indian High Commissioner to Pakistan, T.C.A. Raghavan, in Lahore. He came across as a moderate person allergic to hard positions and willing to understand when his Pakistani interlocutors fly off the handle.(Meaning able and ready to keep taking shit from pakistan)

In short there is a pattern where Track Thoo participants from Indian side selected are pliant and of such a mental state that they would be ready to make compromises (Vacating Siachen, Visa regime to be diluted, keeping the talks going on even if pakistan indulges and promotes terrorism in India).

Watching the NDTV/Republic TV talk show about the meeting in Aiyars house it is clear to what extent Pro Pakis these participants are. It is in your face paki agenda pushing in the name of democratic right and freedom of expression. It is sickening.

Ajay Shukla and Rahul Singh are the worst. Their congress bhakti is to be heard and seen. Rahul Singh made a complete spectacle of himself when he kept claiming it was a Private dinner and then had to admit that everybody including Mickey Mouse Singh made some sort of presentation before his lordship Kasuri on how to improve India pakistan relationship in the current environment (meaning how to take care of the Modi rule).

Check the list of the participant in the Viper abode:
We know these are all pro pakistanis:
-Aiyar, Ansari, Natwar Singh, Shukla, Raghavan, Lambah, Bhadrakumar, Prem Shankar Jha, Rahul Singh.
-Not sure about Gharekhan, Salman Haider, KS Bjapai and Deepak Kapoor.
-Not want to mention anything about Manmohan Singh as the less said about him the better.

the only side taken by the entire bunch of track thoo morons, no matter which side of the border their homes are is the paki side and its always against India.

India gains nothing from all this and that is exactly why the pakis and the amrekis persist with the track thoo. I think that it is high time that mms was outed for his part in all the scams along with his protector.

This time they have been caught out in public by Modi and exposed. They have behaved exactly like deer caught in the headlights. Immediate and strong denial by the traitorous, lying congis followed by mms throwing muck on the govt. Modi forcibly made them respond and admit to what was being done on the sly.

Rest assured that the govt will have a complete record of what exactly transpired at the meeting and who said what exactly.

No one has explained why they met with the enemy and fed them biryani. The paki were brazen enough to have their HC from their embassy attend this "dinner". If the same meeting had happened in pakiland with some paki hosting Indian on the sly, our HC would have been badly beaten along with the guests and at the very least, many would have wound up in hospital.

Very unusually for him, loud and foul mouthed aiyer is conspicuous by his silence.

The entire of lot attendees have been caught with their pants down and no one believes what they say.

High time the good people of Balochistan are helped and saved from genocide. Also high time prosecutions in the scams of the previous government start. This is a serious attempt at building a quisling column in India as part of Pak tactical brilliance. This is treason - conspiracy by Congress to remove a democratically elected government by collaboration with the enemy.

[Vips]

Pakistan/India: How politicians from across the border wine and dine for mutual interests.

At a moment when the Gujarat assembly election was the talk of the town, the timing of a meeting between some Indian stalwarts and their Pakistanis counterparts in New Delhi was intriguing.

The Indians comprised a former Vice President, a former Prime Minister, a former Cabinet Minister, a former Army Chief, former diplomats and a selection of journalists. One common trait or proclivity of most Indian stalwarts in attendance in the seminar and later at the dinner hosted by a former diplomat and Cabinet Minister, known for making acerbic expressions, was the hostility, rather enmity, towards the incumbent Prime Minister.

This acerbic diplomat-politician must take inspiration from his senior colleague Natwar Singh’s assessment of Pakistani diplomats. Singh, who also attended the dinner, writes in his book One Life Is Not Enough: “The quality of Pakistani diplomats cannot be questioned. For some Pakistani diplomats, the Foreign Service was both a cause and a career and for a handful, it was a crusade. Keeping the Kashmir question alive on the international agenda for so long needed determination and skill. Even greater was their achievement in maintaining excellent relations with China and the US, at India’s expense.”

Sadly, many Indian stalwarts have also thrived on political and diplomatic capital of Pakistan and at India’s expense.

The Pakistani side, amongst others, had the former Foreign Minister of Pakistan Khurshid Mahmud Kasuri and the serving High Commissioner Sohail Mahmood. The post-event posturing of the participants neither inspires confidence nor reassurance as to intent of the meet. That the meeting was attended by two highly regarded nationalists does not insulate it from the machinations of anti-India Indo-Pak collaborators.

At a seminar in Lucknow, where I was invited, another participant, a Kashmiri youth leader utilised the occasion to slip off with Abdul Basit, the then Pak High Commissioner only to reappear at the very end of the program. In fact, seminars and dinners such as these are perfect ruse for intelligence operatives.

As far as the Indian participants are concerned, were not some of these people feverishly advocating de-militarisation of Siachen thereby suggesting that India withdraw troops from there? They did not even care to know that there are no Pakistani troops on the glacier. They are deployed on the other side of the Saltoro Ridge.

One of these ‘stalwarts’, whilst on a visit to Pakistan, publicly asked his hosts for help towards dislodging the incumbent Indian Prime Minister. How can Pakistan be of any help except by the only tool it is adept at wielding i.e. terrorism?

Dismissing the steadfast conclusion of the US Government, and even David Headley’s wife, some of the Indian participants at the seminar and dinner were mysteriously desperate to absolve Pakistan from the Samjhauta blasts and exerted to prove that it was a handiwork of so called ‘Hindu terrorists’. The former Union government ignored the narco tests of SIMI activist Safdar Nagori, which revealed the identity of the two Pakistanis who had crossed the border to carry out Samjhauta blasts. Lest they ruin the script of ‘Hindu terror’, these two culprits were deliberately let off and dispatched to Pakistan.

In the wake of the Samjhauta blasts, Kasuri arrived in India on 21 February, 2007. In his book ‘Neither hawk nor dove’ he pontificates: “The attack on Samjhauta proves that terrorism has no religion.”

When was the last time when terrorists from India struck Pakistan, Mr Kasuri? Just because the trajectory of global jihad has gone out of Pakistan’s control, do not create such binaries.

In the pursuit of the purported ‘Hindu terror’, one of the participants, an Adarsh scam tainted gent, had no qualms in handing over an officer under his command to the Maharashtra police.

So who reached out to the Pakistani establishment? The very same people whose heart beat for Ishrat Jahan, an Indian LeT operative, recruited to eliminate the then Chief Minister of Gujarat and now the PM. Her end at the hands of security establishment of Gujarat, rattled the players in the government in Delhi so much that it pitted one Intelligence agency against another. It humiliated the Intelligence Bureau by subverting and unleashing another agency. It happened under the close watch one former PM who now has demanded apology for insinuating ‘subversion’ against him. It is another matter that the spirit of the constitution was subverted by accepting an arrangement by which he forfeited his right to choose his cabinet to an unconstitutional authority. Such an arrangement is inherently weak on integrity and is an invitation to subversion and blackmail by external powers.

The use of Pakistan and its leverages like Dawood Ibrahim and LeT has become a feature of Indian politics. It is this compulsion that makes some Indian politicians, like Pakistani politicians, to suffix an honorific ‘sahab’ to Hafeez Saeed. Pakistan’s ISI has been physically eliminating politicians like Benazir Bhutto and makes civilian governments capitulate whenever it deviates from the military determined foreign policy security path by use of mullahs and fundamentalists. The mullah-military partnership is intrinsic to Pakistan since creation of the country.

The recent brokering of deal by a Maj Gen of ISI between the govt and the Barelvi fundamentalists, Tehreek-e-Labaik, whose 5,000 cadres had blocked the Islamabad-Peshawar road junction for three weeks was brazen display of manipulative power and capability of the military-intelligence establishment with regards to the politics of the country. The same, it seems, is being extended to India at the behest of anti-national parties and politicians.

The ISI has been desperately trying to destabilize UP through railway sabotage. Two recent acts of sabotage are glaring. On 10 August this year, 77 pandrol clips, used for fastening tracks were removed near Bareilly. On 3 December again, 150 pandrol clips were removed near Lucknow to cause derailment. The series of railway sabotage in UP began with the derailment of Patna-Indore Express near Kanpur in Nov 2016 which took a toll of 150 lives. The attack was planned by ISI operative Mohd Shafi Sheikh who roped in a Nepalese citizen Shamshul Hoda. This was carried out to discredit the central government in a run-up to the UP elections. So Pakistan has been trying to influence politics in India in different ways.

I was part of Track-II India-Pakistan meeting in Singapore. The seminar was a formal affair. I was asked to present a paper on Balochistan. The copies of the paper were distributed amongst Indian and Pakistani delegates well in advance. I presented my own perception of Balochistan, much to the dislike of the Pakistani delegates. There is thus no informality about such meets, and even if it is touted as one, national interests reign supreme.

That said, there is never a Track-II meet which may include a former PM and a former Vice-President, and that too in an atmosphere vitiated by hostile political overtones, as betrayed by the dinner’s host. Which side of the Indian political divide does this foul-mouthed former diplomat and politician wants the Pakistanis to weigh?

Most Indian invitees at the dinner are known for their hostility towards the present PM. One of them before demitting powers and privileges of high office for years commented that people of his community are not safe in India, another, deemed as an ‘Accidental Prime Minister’ said that minorities had the first right over resources in India, and is also remembered for his subverted role at Sharm-al-Shaikh. What these stalwarts wished to achieve from their Pakistani counterparts that they could not otherwise make real in their long careers, is anyone’s guess. If the intention of the stalwarts was the good of India, they could have kept the present government in the loop. In this regard they must take cue from Kasuri’s patriotism.

In his book ‘Neither a hawk nor a dove’ Kasuri describes his meeting with influential Americans (Senator John McCain, Senator Lindsey Graham and Richard Hoolbrooke) in the wake of 26/11 in Lahore after he ceased to be Foreign Minister of Pakistan in November 2007. “My experience told me that this was as high powered a delegation as it could be. I instinctively understood that there must be something important. They said they were coming from India and there was a feeling of outrage and something needed to be done to release the pressure. To my consternation, Senator McCain wanted to know from me, in view of my experience what the reaction of the Pakistan Army and the public at large would be, if there was limited air raid on Murdike, the headquarters of Lashkar-e-Tayiba. I was horrified at the mere suggestion. Such a suggestion could not have come without their sounding out people at the highest level in India before their visit to Pakistan. After lunch was over, I immediately rang General Hamid Javed, the liaison officer between the army and entire presidency during my tenure; I also rang General Kayani (DG ISI) directly.”

In the process of writing the book ‘The Unmaking of Nepal’ I met the top brass of Nepal several times before arriving at my assessment. Immediately on arrival at India I gave a talk at Centre for Land Warfare Studies. A representative of MEA was invited. Subsequently, I, on my own initiative, briefed the Joint Secretary (Nepal) at the MEA.

The Indian stalwarts therefore must realise that no dividends can be extruded from Track-II or informal outreach without involvement of the government of the day. Track-II and informal outreach can only be allowed if it complements and supplements the efforts of the government. Otherwise, such exercises, that are in abusive disregard of the government of the day constitutes an act of sedition.

[Vips]

News that there is also a Track 1.5 in the Indo-Pak non-official talks tamasha.

-What is Track 1.5?
-How is the list of participants decided?
-Is there a conscious effort at all to strike a balance between pro pakistani and pro india participants from India? (We have consistently seen in both formal and informal parleys that take place, the lobby of appeasers comprise almost 80% of the total)
-Last and the most important if the the government of the day wants to sign away India's strategic gains (Vacate Siachen, Open Borders, Remove Indian army from Kashmir etc) do the Pak pasand Indian participants gets a licence to commit seditious acts?

[Karan M]

the only side taken by the entire bunch of track thoo morons, no matter which side of the border their homes are is the paki side and its always against India.

India gains nothing from all this and that is exactly why the pakis and the amrekis persist with the track thoo. I think that it is high time that mms was outed for his part in all the scams along with his protector.

This time they have been caught out in public by Modi and exposed. They have behaved exactly like deer caught in the headlights. Immediate and strong denial by the traitorous, lying congis followed by mms throwing muck on the govt. Modi forcibly made them respond and admit to what was being done on the sly.

Rest assured that the govt will have a complete record of what exactly transpired at the meeting and who said what exactly.

No one has explained why they met with the enemy and fed them biryani. The paki were brazen enough to have their HC from their embassy attend this "dinner". If the same meeting had happened in pakiland with some paki hosting Indian on the sly, our HC would have been badly beaten along with the guests and at the very least, many would have wound up in hospital.

Very unusually for him, loud and foul mouthed aiyer is conspicuous by his silence.

The entire of lot attendees have been caught with their pants down and no one believes what they say.

what exactly did modi say? just a few cursory references to MMS and silence thereafter.

as much as i hate to say it, he has been a verbal and otherwise oh so gentlemanly with regards to his political opponents.

[chetak]

the only side taken by the entire bunch of track thoo morons, no matter which side of the border their homes are is the paki side and its always against India.

<snip>

The entire of lot attendees have been caught with their pants down and no one believes what they say.

what exactly did modi say? just a few cursory references to MMS and silence thereafter.

as much as i hate to say it, he has been a verbal and otherwise oh so gentlemanly with regards to his political opponents.

The guilty always scream the loudest. They have the most to hide.

It's quite shameless how a former VP and a former PM, both malsi pasand and also with diplomatic blood on their hands felt it necessary to attend the "dinner", cooks in their own houses died or what??

money aiyer has written a long piece, (where else??) in the yawn paper published by his friends.

[Karan M]

I agree but what has Modi or the establishment done about it or the track thoo participation?

[Bart S]

I agree but what has Modi or the establishment done about it or the track thoo participation?

Nothing much other than an exercise in stupidity by linking it to Gujarat elections and not the much bigger threat to national security!

[Parasu]

Is it true that India controls Bhutan`s UN vote?!
Am asking this in the context of Bhutan abstaining on the Jerusalem vote.

[sunnyP]

Seems the government is happy to try and appease minority communities even if its at the expense of India’s foreign policy interests.

[SSridhar]

Batting on front foot: India took several foreign policy leaps this year, expect 2018 to be like 2017 - Indrani Bagchi, ToI

When the Asean festival is over – 10 heads of state and government will be our chief guests for Republic Day – we may find that 2018 is more of 2017. That may not be a bad thing. Three big developments stood out in India’s foreign policy that will continue their trajectory in 2018.

The China challenge was the real McCoy and put hair on India’s chest (sexism alert) this year. India picked up many silent brownie points over how she stood her ground on the Doklam crisis, but a bigger play happened on that account.

Doklam was a unique moment – restricting the Chinese in an area where India is militarily at an advantage was important, and, as a nation, we crossed the 1962 hump. More important was how India played the greater game.

The much hyped Chinese strategy of san zhong zhanfa (‘Three Warfares’) was exposed. It is PLA’s brainchild for winning a war without fighting through a set of three complementary strategies: media warfare, as in the daily briefings by the Chinese foreign ministry and threats on official media unfortunately picked up by our own brain-deprived TV channels; legal warfare where China brandished real and not-so-real domestic and international law, and threatening military action; psychological warfare, reminding us that 1962 would be upon us again, we would be reduced to dust, etc. By refusing to engage, a remarkable feat for such a vociferous and argumentative nation, official Indian silence robbed China’s campaign of so much oxygen even they didn’t realise it until the very end.

However, New Delhi took a bigger foreign policy leap in May when India stood up against OBOR, on the grounds of sovereignty, principles of equity and transparency, calling it out as a colonial enterprise.

The effect around the world was much like at a Delhi traffic light – you know you should ignore that red light and bribe the cop if he stops you. Suddenly a guy actually stops at the red light. You think twice. You stop. What does he know that you don’t, you wonder?

In the months since India’s terse statement on OBOR dropped on the world like the proverbial 800 pound gorilla, different forums in the EU, US, Japan and Australia have flagged the same uncomfortable questions for the Chinese. Rex Tillerson called it “predatory economics”, EU snobbishly told China its connectivity projects should conform to principles and just voted against China’s application for market economy status. After years of being “exposed” to Chinese influence and money, Australia’s PM Malcolm Turnbull roared “stand up”. India may not have been the reason for everybody to find their spine on China, but New Delhi can certainly claim to be that guy at the traffic light.

China won’t forget this in a hurry, and New Delhi should expect that there will be huge temptation to “teach India a lesson” in 2018. That’s when we will know whether India can play a better game, because it will take a lot – and more – out of our South Block mandarins.

Second, America may be reeling from the swing from Obama to Trump, but surprisingly, India is probably the only major country that currently has a “normal” relationship with Trump’s America, which leaves you scratching your head – both countries are increasingly upfront about their growing closeness, particularly in the defence, strategic and security domains. India and US are coordinating positions on more global issues than ever, and no, Nikki Haley’s threat to “shame” did not affect India’s decision on the Jerusalem vote (though one suspects it may have cost them a few abstentions).

Certainly in south Asia the Trump strategy fits in well with India’s own, even if it puts Pakistan’s nose out of joint. For Trump’s strategy to succeed, India has to take the lead here – in 2018 India needs to maintain the pressure on Pakistan to detox itself from its terror addiction. It’s crucial for the health of this region, particularly Afghanistan, which we cannot afford to lose to jihadis again. China will be compelled to put more good money after bad in Pakistan, which will be oxygen to the army – therefore more important for India to step up opposition to CPEC.

Third, look out for more trilaterals and minilaterals in 2018 featuring India as a pillar. The new Indian foreign policy mantra is to move where we can, use stronger bilateral relationships for regional and global goals, or as a strategist explains “exploit the space between bilateral and multilateral”.

The “quad” and Malabar is a classic one – India’s initial hesitation unwittingly drew attention to Australia’s China vulnerabilities which Canberra is fixing speedily. The India-Australia relationship is ready for take off, keep your eyes peeled for more action outside cricket.

India-Japan-US, India-Australia-Japan, etc to look at the Asian theatre, India-Russia-China to reassure Russia, India-France, India-US, India-Australia and others in the Indian Ocean, BBIN in the south Asian mohalla … the list goes on.

On the world stage, India is fighting elections much like Modi in Gujarat – look at the bruising battle for the ICJ, where we stayed more than the British candidate. India put away more sedate successes in ITLOS, UNESCO and IMO. This gluttony will increase, because we are stepping out to own global governance institutions with the appetite of a rising power. {We also joined MTCR & WA, even though MTCR was in 2016}

This year India played on the front foot with some success. But it means increasingly India’s actions on the world stage have to be thought through beyond visual range. The playing field has changed.

[Philip]

Yes, some measure of success on the modest scale, though not giving jnto Chin hegemony over Doklam a great show of b*lls! XI Gins in comparison a punctured balloon, but he plans to roar back in 2018, we have to keep our powder dry.I keep advocating starting a new outfit to replace SAARC called SAFE/SAFE, an eco forum for the S.Asian states minus Pak as members would all have to agree with solemn signed statements not to support any anti- national movements, terrorists, etc. which would affect any of the member nations.An EU style format for an open market.

Major defence purchases for immediate requirements like ammo, spares, missiles, etc., must be concluded, sealed and delivered by hypersonic post.The Chins well know that 2018 will be a very crucial year for India, perhaps gen.elections end year, and may plan to strike / create another Doklam just as we are in full election mode.

[Vips]

If indeed China plans to play mischief then it would be on major scale where it would occupy a good chunk of Indian territory. Anything otherwise would enable Indian Army to give it a bloody nose. It would in fact be like handing Modi the 2019 General elections on a platter if Indian army is seen as being successful against them. That would be the last thing the chinese want. Another 5 years of Modi at the helm is like the worst nightmare for them. They would much prefer the Deshdrohi weaklings instead.

[A_Gupta]

Not sure this has been posted before.
https://www.wilsoncenter.org/publicatio ... uncil-1950

In CWIHP Working Paper #76, "Not at the Cost of China: New Evidence Regarding US Proposals to Nehru for Joining the United Nations Security Council," author Anton Harder examines the controversy surrounding India's role in the United Nations Security Council in the 1950s. Using Indian archival material from the Nehru Memorial Museum and Library, this paper shows that America's interest in seeing India join the Security Council was motivated by the emergence of the People's Republic of China as a regional power, and that this episode was an early example of the United States attempting to use the United Nations to further its own Cold War interests.

[Vips]

What else do you expect when an idealistic daydreaming individual was thrust upon the country by Gandhi instead of honoring the choice of the congress members to go with the pragmatic and no-nonsense iron man - Sardar Patel.

[sunnyP]

And we still vote for these terrorist lovers at the UN.

Palestine Envoy Shares Stage With Hafiz Saeed In Pak, India Says Will Take Up Strongly

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/palesti ... -topscroll

[SSridhar]

^Absolutely.

That vote in the UNGA was a grave mistake by India.

We have not yet internalized that we do things only in our self interest. Even KSA is softening its stance towards Israel and Pakistan has, since Musharraf's days, been trying to get closer to Israel. This vote along with a few other gaffes vis-a-vis Pakistan suggest that, for all our brave talk and some action these days, the Lutyen's Delhi largely goofs up like always.

Do we have a strategic vision at all ?

[arun]

And we still vote for these terrorist lovers at the UN.

Palestine Envoy Shares Stage With Hafiz Saeed In Pak, India Says Will Take Up Strongly

https://www.ndtv.com/india-news/palesti ... -topscroll

And so the Palestinians demonstrate why their being tarred with the appellation of being the original modern day Mohammadden Terrorists was not undeserved by the action of the Palestinian “Ambassador” to the Mohammadden Terrorism Fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan, Waleed Abu Ali, attending a rally organized by the Difah-e-Pakistan Council, an umbrella group of 40 Mohammadden belief based extremist groups in Pakistan, headed by the United Nations Designated Terrorist and one of the Masterminds of 26/11 Mumbai attack, Hafiz Mohammad Saeed.

So much for Palestinian gratitude for India’s support last week at the United Nations General Assembly for the resolution opposing the US move of shifting of their Embassy to Jerusalem.

Another article, this time from Indrani Bagchi at Times of India, on the topic:

Palestine's Pakistan envoy shares dais with Hafiz Saeed, India issues demarche

[arun]

Our Ministry of External Affairs of Palestinian “Ambassador” sharing dais with UN designated Terrorist Hafiz Mohammad Saeed:

Official Spokesperson's response to a question regarding reports/photographs of the Palestinian Ambassador to Pakistan attending a rally organised by JuD Chief and mastermind of Mumbai terror attack Hafiz Saeed

December 29, 2017

In response to a query on reports/photographs of the Palestinian Ambassador to Pakistan attending a rally organised by JuD Chief and mastermind of Mumbai terror attack Hafiz Saeed, the Official Spokesperson said:

"We have seen reports in this regard. We are taking up the matter strongly with the Palestinian Ambassador in New Delhi and with the Palestinian authorities".

From the MEA website here:

Clicky

[Karthik S]

They could have given stronger message by not voting in favor of them last week. I hope Doval would speak to MEA and tells them, not a single action against Israel from now on.

[SSridhar]

I hope Doval would speak to MEA and tells them, not a single action against Israel from now on.

That's where the problem is, if it were true that Doval & MEA were not talking to each other already.

Voting 'NO' in the UNGA would not have been taken lightly without consultations. At least, that's what I hope. Sushma Swaraj alone cannot be made a scapegoat, the entire government must be.

[arun]

X Posted from the Indo-Israel: News and Discussion thread.

Our Rajya Sabha MP belonging to the BJP, Subramanian Swamy, delivers an I told you so tweet regards India’s UNGA vote on Jerusalem following news that Palestine “Ambassador” to the Mohammadden Terrorism Fomenting Islamic of Pakistan, Waleed Abi Ali, shared dais with UN designated terrorist and Mumbai 26/11 Mohammadden terrorist mastermind, Hafeez Mohammad Saeed:

Subramanian Swamy‏Verified account
@Swamy39
A few days after India voted for Palestine's UNGA Resolution on Jerusalem, Palestine's Envoy to Pakistan shared today the stage with terrorist Hafeez Sayeed in a Rawalpindi public rally condemning India.

6:38 AM - 29 Dec 2017

Earlier he had tweeted this:

Subramanian Swamy‏Verified account
@Swamy39

It is against India's national interest to vote for the pro-Palestine Resolution in the UNGA. Palestine has never supported India on Kashmir question and Islamic terror attacks. Israel has stood with India always.

8:16 AM - 21 Dec 2017

…………… And said this in a TV interview:

'India's made a huge mistake in voting against US on Jerusalem,' says BJP's Subramanian Swamy

[srin]

I don't support the anti-Israel vote that we did, but the outcome couldn't have been better.

If we'd abstained or voted for Israel, and this episode had happened, then the Govt would have been at the receiving end ("we told you so", "they did this because of your actions" etc) of all the "sickular deep state" elements - opposition, media etc.
OTOH, we can now say that despite our support to the Palestinians, they seem to like terrorists better, so there. So, we don't support Palestine anymore because they are linked to terrorists, we've been let down etc. They just lost the *overt* political support among opposition. Actually, it'd be better if this was raised in the Parliament.

This is an out for us. Equate Palestinian authority to terrorists and be home free. The Palestinians have to be extraordinarily stupid or must be getting some extraordinary returns to have allowed this to happen.

I don't like the way we arrived at this, but this has worked out very well in the end.

[sarang]

Exactly, infact its blessing in disguise that we voted against Israel,

Palestine can not blame now if we favour Israel in future.

[chetak]

Exactly, infact its blessing in disguise that we voted against Israel,

Palestine can not blame now if we favour Israel in future.

Israelis are not fools. They have understood why India had to vote the way it did.

That being said, our relations with israel have now crossed the Rubicon and nothing can change that fact.

Publicly, we can take one position because of our captive population in the labor markets of the gulf and factually, realistically and politically take the diametrically opposite position in real politic terms.

from time to time, some Indian PM will "visit" palestine and thoughtfully place a few coins in the eternally extended malsi begging bowl.

No one is fooled. Everyone is just playing to a well oiled script.

[Karthik S]

Srin and Sarang, how long do you want India to prove about itself by being at the receiving end? And to whom you want to prove? This mentality infuriates me no end. For everything we will be nice only to be kicked, from NM visiting that sharif to this vote to sswaraj issuing visas and getting indian women humiliated in pak, only to prove to everyone that "see we were nice, but it's them who is bad". Keep doing this forever if you want to prove your kindness.

China's GDP in 2005-6 was the same as our present GDP. Do any of you recall China of 2005 trying to be nice its hostile countries and then getting kicked in the face just to prove it is a good country? Let's stop this, no matter how much you bend over backwards, none of 57 ummah mulaliks will side by you, none in lutyens area will support indic causes. You'll have ZERO ROI in trying to please them or prove about yourself.

[SSridhar]

srin, I don't buy your argument for several reasons.

For one, in these matters, GoI should look only at country's interests, not what the opposition would say or do. The opposition would never let go of anything. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

We only have to look at the history of Palestine's stance regarding Kashmir or terrorism. The OIC has unanimously supported only the Pakistani stance. It is even foolish to expect any Muslim country to behave otherwise. So, GoI already had a reason to claim that the Palestenians "like terrorists better", as you have put it. We didn't need this Hafiz Saeed-Palestenian Ambassador bonhomie as a new reason.

Even granting all that, do you think that GoI would now tweak its Palestine policy? We would be better off if things that you are hoping for do happen.

If Israel accepts India's compulsion to vote the way it did (though I don't really understand what compulsion could there be), I would want Palestenians to understand, for a change, why India could not support it at least once. Why should it always be a one-way road?

As the Dumas' classic 'Count of Monte Cristo' ends, 'Wait & Hope'.

But, frankly, I have no hope.

[chetak]

srin, I don't buy your argument for several reasons.

For one, in these matters, GoI should look only at country's interests, not what the opposition would say or do. The opposition would never let go of anything. Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

We only have to look at the history of Palestine's stance regarding Kashmir or terrorism. The OIC has unanimously supported only the Pakistani stance. It is even foolish to expect any Muslim country to behave otherwise. So, GoI already had a reason to claim that the Palestenians "like terrorists better", as you have put it. We didn't need this Hafiz Saeed-Palestenian Ambassador bonhomie as a new reason.

Even granting all that, do you think that GoI would now tweak its Palestine policy? We would be better off if things that you are hoping for do happen.

If Israel accepts India's compulsion to vote the way it did (though I don't really understand what compulsion could there be), I would want Palestenians to understand, for a change, why India could not support it at least once. Why should it always be a one-way road?

As the Dumas' classic 'Count of Monte Cristo' ends, 'Wait & Hope'.

But, frankly, I have no hope.

SSridhar,

Sometimes, GoI decisions on foreign policy has precipitated grievous assaults on Indian citizens in the gelf, beatings, muggings, ill treatment by employers and all of such incidents have been quickly closed by the local police, even if a complaint had been lodged.

Besides, violence in cashmere increases momentarily as well as protests and small time violence in other parts of India itself, especially in UP, BH, WB and a few notorious pockets in the south.

So far, in Modi's raj, terrorism has been at a low key but rest assured that it will rear it's very ugly head in some form or the other before the 2019 hustings. This is an important card that hasn't been played yet. Why precipitate anything, especially when some prominent muslim beardo has publicly thanked Sushma Swaraj for voting palestine and against israel. That, they did not expect it, indeed goes to show how much against the grain India has voted.

It also simply shows you that in spite of all that is being done for these beardos by Modi, they still hope that India supports two bit causes dear to their malsi hearts and that they yearn mightily for the congi appeasement days of yore.

I am very sure the the GoI would have kept the israelis in the loop before the vote was cast. There was barely even a bump in our relations with them on account of this. OTOH, the palestinians have been served with a demarche. It has also brought home to the Indian malsi that even though there was Indian "quid", there was no palestinian "pro quo" thus making the palestinians publicly called out nakak harams.

So what does that make the prominent muslim beardo who had publicly thanked Sushma Swaraj for voting palestine and against israel?? and by extension the rest of his malsi gang?? Why is he suddenly so silent now?? His glib dig at Sushma for not voting BJP has U turned and is lodged firmly in his nether regions, no??

India is less than a bit player in the palestinian imbroglio. We don't have the political or the economic gravitas to affect any significant part of this question. We simply don't have the military power projection capabilities to effect changes on the ground there but we have the undoubted and also the enormous capability to contribute vast amounts of silver to the israeli economic situation through weapon and other purchases. This one single and vital fact has not escaped the bitter attention of any malsi state in the world.

Still, there will be, as usual, plenty of "scholarships", medical aid and cultural exchanges to assuage the ill will of these ever ungrateful palestinians

At best we may have saved many crores in burnt buses, property and bad press and at worst we have maintained the fig leaf status quo.

[JohnTitor]

^^ I disagree. Our vote should be based on self interest. Not what is best in dealing with the opposition. Those claiming this will somehow help us say "look it made no difference", forget that this isn't the first time that the Palestinians have sided with pak against us. And it wont be the last. Tomorrow lutyens delhi will still say give them a chance as they always do. So the vote was a betrayal of indias growth in geopolitics.

Further, if you say violence on indian nationals in the gelf will be a result of such a vote, then it clearly shows that we have no heft beyond our borders. Violence against Indians will happen regardless because indians along with the rest of the south asians are seen as inferior in the ME. So the vote matters little.

I am disappointed with NM for choosing to vote against Israel.

[SSridhar]

From ToI,

This isn't the first time the Palestinian ambassador to Pakistan has met with Hafiz Saeed. In August 2014, Waleed Abu Ali had attended the Palestine Unity Caravan organised by the JuD, where Saeed delivered an address denigrating India and Israel for "killing innocent Muslims".

[arun]

Our Ministry of External Affairs advises “Palestinian side has conveyed deep regrets over the incident “ of Palestinian “Ambassador” to the Mohammadden Terrorism Fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan, Waleed Abu Ali, sharing a dais with UN designated terrorist and Mohammadden Terrorist mastermind of 26/11 Mumbai attack, Hafeez Mohammad Saeed:

Press release on India’s reaction over the Palestinian Ambassador in Pakistan’s association with terrorist Hafiz Saeed
December 30, 2017

Government of India has strongly conveyed to the Palestinian side that the Palestinian Ambassador in Pakistan's association with terrorist Hafiz Saeed, who is proscribed by the United Nations, at an event in Rawalpindi on 29.12.2017, is unacceptable. The concerns were conveyed both in New Delhi to the Palestinian Ambassador and in Ramallah to the Minister of Foreign Affairs and Expatriates, State of Palestine.

The Palestinian side has conveyed deep regrets over the incident and assured the Government of India that they are taking serious cognizance of their Ambassador's presence at this event. They have said they will deal with this matter appropriately. It was also conveyed that Palestine highly values its relationship with India and stands with us in the war against terrorism, and will not engage with those who commit acts of terror against India.

We take note of the assurances given by the Palestine side.

New Delhi
30 December 2017

From our MEA’s website:

MEA Press Release

As at the time of posting this, nothing however on the website of the so called “Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the State of Palestine”. A case of Palestinian inefficiency, lack of concern for India’s anger or Mohammadden Taqiyyah of telling us lies which they do not admit before the rest of the world?:

Palestine Website

[uddu]

http://www.hindustantimes.com/india-new ... KccXK.html

Palestine recalls its Pakistan ambassador after India’s anger over his presence at rally with Hafiz Saeed
India reacted with anger after photos of the Palestinian ambassador to Pakistan, Walid Abu Ali, sharing the stage with Hafiz Saeed and addressing the rally in Rawalpindi were circulated on social media on Friday.

Palestine on Saturday recalled its ambassador to Pakistan after India expressed anger and concern over his presence next to Lashkar-e-Taiba founder Hafiz Saeed at a rally organised by extremist and radical groups in Rawalpindi.

Barely hours after the Indian statement, a Palestinian official told Hindustan Times: “The ambassador has been recalled from Pakistan and asked to report to Ramallah. Palestine is part of the world community and it is committed to fighting terrorism. This shouldn’t have happened.”

The official said that a formal statement from the Palestinian foreign ministry was expected later in the day.

The envoy’s presence at the rally came barely 10 days after India joined 127 other members of the United Nations to back a resolution criticising US President Donald Trump’s decision to recognise Jerusalem as the capital of Israel. The countries disregarded Trump’s threat to cut aid to the countries that voted for the resolution.

India and Palestine are also discussing a possible visit to Ramallah by Prime Minister Narendra Modi in February – seen by some here as a conciliatory gesture in connection with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu’s visit to India in January. If Modi’s visit goes ahead, it will be his first to Palestine.

India formally conveyed its concerns about Walid Abu Ali’s “association with terrorist Hafiz Saeed, who is proscribed by the United Nations”, to the Palestinian ambassador in New Delhi and to the minister of foreign affairs in Ramallah.

Saeed used Friday’s “Tahafuz Baitul Maqdas” rally to launch a broadside against India and to rake up the Kashmir issue by linking it to Palestine. “We consider it our prime responsibility to liberate Kashmir from India. We will free Kashmir in fulfilment of Jinnah’s dream,” he said, speaking in Urdu.

Saeed also referred to the controversial meeting between Kulbhushan Jadhav, an Indian national sentenced to death by Pakistan for alleged spying, and his wife and mother in Islamabad on December 25.

“Pakistan let the family of Kulbhushan meet him out of kindness and goodwill, but India sent them with spy devices,” he claimed.

The kind of venom spewed against India by the bloody terrorists the bloody ambassador being present is enough to cut all diplomatic ties with Palestine.
Recalled or just drama?