Army strikes terror camps in PoK

[Zynda]

The documentary was nice but obviously a lot of details got left out. Anyways, got a few noob questions. I understand the scenes in documentary were dramatised and may not reflect actual practices but the Para Recon team when they were behind enemy lines, I saw them not using suppressors on their rifles? If they have contact and needs to be engaged, doesn't lack of suppressors kinda indicate direction of fire (& eventually their presence)? I understand suppressors have their own set of disadvantages (If I am right, they slightly reduce the velocity of the outgoing round from the chamber and thus affect the stopping power?).

Also is it standard practice to use suppressors with Dragunov kinds of marksmen rifles?

[rkhanna]

So Far Indian SOF SOP does not include Suppressed weapons en-mass.

Specially Long Gun ARs with suppressors used by other Global SOF units tend to be with barrel lenght of 8.5"-11inches and integral suppressors - We dont have such carbines in our inventory. Adding suppressors to 16inch barrels makes them ungainly in tight situations and soldiers prefer with out them.

Suppression for tactical roles in a mission is given to select soldiers via UZI's and Snipers (though i have seen pictures of Suppressed M4s) when a mission role demands it. (Usually for silently taking out sentries etc.)

" I understand suppressors have their own set of disadvantages (If I am right, they slightly reduce the velocity of the outgoing round from the chamber and thus affect the stopping power?)."

The USMC in 2016 in a very lengthy post on their FB account dispelled this myth.

[Mollick.R]

Superb
Courtesy Shatrujeet's Facebook Page :-
Posting it in full.

#SuperSunday

Now time has come for the story of revenge raid we had promised.This is the real account of the revenge raid and is dedicated to Lance Naik Hemraj and Lance Naik Sudhakar Singh who were avenged.

Revenge of The Fallen -

Part 1

=========

The incident -

It is a cold winter morning, somewhere near the LOC in the Medhar area in Poonch sector.The area is a heavily vegetated jungle making the visibility very low ,as if things were not bad enough ,a thick fog engulf the whole area ,bringing down the visibility to near zero.In such conditions at January 8, 2013 , eight soldiers belonging to the 13 Rajputana Rifles are carrying out an area domination patrol (ADP) , in two escort parties including 6 jawans on back side and two on the front about 600 meters inside the LoC.The fence on the LoC in that particular area is built 2 Kms inside the Indian territory, as a result of which the Pakistani troops did not have to cross any obstacle to enter the Indian territory. As the jawans were carrying out their routine ,they were unaware that under the cover of thick fog and dense forest a Pakistani BAT team comprising of terrorists and Pakistani Army special forces has already infiltrated the area ,and have laid an ambush on their known route of patrol and were waiting for them.

The Indian Army patrolling party came under a heavy volley of automatic fire and grenades blasts as they entered the kill zone of the ambush area set by the Pakistani BAT ,which had laid a trap for them.As per the training and their natural instinct the two Indian army jawans who were leading the patrol ,rushed ahead and fired back, bearing the brunt of the attack and saving the rest of the group.Providing enough time and cover to the remaining patrolling party to move out of the kill zone.An intense firefight ensued for the next 30 minutes,after which there was a lull in firing.At that moment, the rear patrol party of 6 jawans came out of the cover and moved towards the kill zone,where it all started.As they moved forward ,they were shocked to see the two dead bodies of the Indian jawans, Lance Naik Hemraj and Lance Naik Sudhakar Singh who were leading the patrol party.To their dismay the enemy had slit the throats of both the soldiers in a brutal manner and their bodies were badly mutilated.The Pakistani BAT team had chopped off the heads of both the dead bodies of Indian Jawans and carried over one head to their side as a trophy.This news was soon out in open,there was a great hype around it in the media .The whole nation was grieved and full of rage and anger at this act of Pakistan.Temper and emotions ran high for few days, family of one of the martyred soldier demanded for the severed head of their son to be handed over to the family.This was not possible as the head has been taken across the LOC and Pakistan had blatantly denied of carrying out such an attack, as part of its usual SOP (Standard Operating Procedure).The aggravate family of the martyred soldiers was pacified by the Government by handing over some perks,financial assistance to them and a promise of revenge for the deaths and mutilation of the two brave jawans.The Indian Army vowed an appropriate response to the despicable act.After sometime as it happen often,this matter subsided and slowly faded away from the memory of the general public as well as the government at the center.

=====

Decision -

Fast forward few months ,a new government is formed in the center. Army chief is summoned by the suptrops of power in Delhi,somewhere in a secured location the chief present a briefing about the army preparedness and its future plans to a small group of who's who of government.He is asked to convey the immediate requirement of the armed forces.The chief put forward few requests along with the request to be granted the operational freedom ,which is granted to him.As the meeting near its end ,there is a request made by the highest chair in the meeting,he remember the incident of the particular decapitation carried out by the Pakistani BAT which is mentioned above ,he wants it to be avenged .All the person present there obliged to the request.A decision is made then and there to punish the main culprit behind the beheading and to seek revenge of the decapitation of our soldiers.

======

Zeroing in -

Important assets were put to work ,both inside and outside our country (types of assets is classified).One person, a commander of Lashkar-e-toiba Anwar khan was singled out.He was positively ID'd as the leader of the BAT team that had carried out the ambush and beheading of our two jawans .He was apparently rewarded by Pakistani agencies for the act of beheading carried out by him.Beside being the area commander ,Salim was an expert in recon and was well aware of the topography of the LOC ,this knowledge was being used by him to push terrorists inside India.His fate was sealed then and there.He was a dead man walking ,only question was when and how.It was only a matter of time before his sins caught to him.

======

surveillance -

Surveillance was carried out through various means air,ground,IT and signals etc .Terrorists chatter were monitored and decoded ,their movement was tracked and assets across the LOC were activated.A particular house ,in a small Pakistani village of Rajouri district, just across the LOC was zeroed in.It was found that this particular house was frequented by Anwar.A local unit of the army at LOC was told to keep a overwatch on that house,as it was visible from our side of the LOC.The house was kept on constant vigil through various means ,day and night.Intelligence assets were activated and the exact date and time at which Salim was expected to visit that house was found out.It was decided to carry out the op on that given date.

========

The team -

The task to take him out was given to an extremely elite group of men,whose only sign of existence are the trails of destruction they leave behind their playground.These men were highly skilled in their work and ruthless in nature. Anwar was a sadist in nature who used to enjoy all type of violent acts, but he had no idea that he is about to come across those who live and breathe violence .The main assault team was kept to minimum ,a mission oriented small team ,which is the most that is required to unleash hell at any given time and place.We can't reveal the name of the unit or force but it is suffice to say that they were India's very own Gods Of War.The very same unit which does not exist , about whom you will never hear,which carries out bad things in bad places on daily basis,far from any limelight or any kind of recognition.

=========

Reconnaissance -

Sometime before the due date,some member of the assault team crossed the LOC for a recon mission.They were loaded for more than a day and were carrying all the necessary equipment along with their ration.The recon party was heavily camouflaged ,with camo painted all over their face and wearing ghillie suits over their bodies, they blended in and become a part of the Jungle which was spread all across that area.Soon they were around the house which was zeroed in to carry out the mission,they located a vantage point ,across that house and started the recce.They were equipped with a variety of equipment to carry out their task.A close vigil was kept at that house ,the occupants,number of rooms,their layout ,all the movement and pattern both in and around that house was closely observed for few days.A kill zone was decided and a map was drawn of the area where all the action would to take place. Powerful scopes and cameras were used to draw detailed maps, diagrams, blueprints
of structures in the village,INFIL and EXFIL routes which provided excellent natural concealment through the terrain features and would easily allow a small body of men to move undetected were planned and marked .During all this time,they only changed their position once.They monitored the area for patterns of enemy movement and collected technical information-all while surviving the natural elements and staying out of sight of the locals and Pakistani forces in the area.After carrying out the recce and stalking of the target house and the village the recon team quietly ex-filled and returned back to their base ,leaving behind no trace of their presence in that area.With all the information gathered by the recon mission and from various other sources at their hand ,the team commander laid out a plan to carry out the raid.The mission was a 'go'.

- to be continued in part 2.



https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 4991274372

[Mollick.R]

Courtesy Shatrujeet's Facebook Page :-

Part-2

#SuperSunday

Revenge of the Fallen -

Part 2

==========

Getting ready -

On the due date ,preparation for the raid began.Surprise and shock are basic element for a successful raid,for this you have to become a part of the terrain , use concealment and deception , approach unseen and remain hidden within striking distance of the enemy .The area where they were going to operate was densely vegetated and it was going to be dark.To exploit the terrain to their maximum advantage,the team members got dressed in a woodland pattern combat dress,painted their faces and hands black ,which would help them to melt away into the surrounding .Weapons of their choice were, a Pikka which is a 7.62x54mm general purpose machine gun, an extremely reliable and effective weapon whenever you want to rain down heavy fire on your enemies .PSG 1, a 7.62x51mm semi-automatic sniper rifle designed by the German company Heckler & Koch,an extremely accurate and efficient rifle to engage and take down threats from a distance.Then there was a mix of tavor TAR 21 and m4,these are 5.56x45mm assault rifles apt for carrying out swift fire assault and CQB(close quarter battle).All of these were the primary weapons and were equipped with night and thermal scopes .Beside these there were pistols as secondary,for times when it is too close for comfort.

Then there were claymore mines and grenades-to blow things up when required.Each of them was carrying a secure radio set along with tactical headsets ,to ensure secure and clear communication.They also had night vision goggles and handheld thermal cameras.Apart from these they had certain items ,which cannot be revealed here due to its CLASSIFIED NATURE.

With all the things in place and one last check of the weapons and gear the team gathered for the final briefing. After going through the map,plan and the call signs for the one last time ,the team of of elite predators was all set to carry out their task.

==========
INFIL -

This was going to be a night operation ,set in a cold winter night.By the time predators set out for the hunt,it was already dark.The LoC does not run in a straight line but creates geographical avenues, jutting into opposing territory.The terrain consist of mountains abruptly intersected by deep, steep sited valleys,rides, deep gorges and is characterized by thick forests and undergrowth in pockets, limiting visibility to the bare minimum.Unlike the Indian side the Pakistani side does not have any fencing , have very few number of post as well as troop deployment and carries out very little patrolling along the LOC.The reason behind this is not only the limited resources of Pakistan but also because unlike India they do not have the danger of hostile terrorist crossing over to their side to create mayhem, terrorist movement is one way out of Pakistan.However this unparity in troop deployment is fully exploited by Indian special forces, which get an easy access to that side of the LOC.

The infiltration was done on foot ,as it is the best mode to infiltrate maintaining stealth and surprise .The team was skillful in their use of camouflage, silent movement by night, and movement along the hill.They were accustomed to carrying heavy loads and travelling long distances on foot in form of speed marches , still the cold, wind, and steep terrain overgrown in places with thick vegetation made the trek a test of endurance and skill.Prior reconnaissance and marking of the INFIL route had already been carried out by them, they had thorough knowledge of the terrain and disposition of the Pakistani forces.Moreover they were ace hunters,who had honed their skills in the art of stealth ,tracking and recognizing signs in the jungle.Which enabled them to detect the men or animals moving through jungle,presence of a concealed enemy,enabled them to move without leaving signs of their passage and to avoid mines or booby traps.The team made their way through thick vegetation and broken terrain in complete darkness and finally made it to their planned hideout spot ,which was marked earlier during the recon.The hideout was located on a hill overlooking the target village ,behind the enemy lines.

============

The Village -

The hideout was shielded by thick vegetation and provided adequate shelter.As the team approached the hideout they conducted a brief halt, to rest and recuperate for a while.After sometime they moved into position overlooking the village and began their observation and recce of the village using high power nightvison and thermal scopes ,looking down hill.The village was located at the bottom of the hill.It consist of a cluster of 15 to 20 houses along with a masjid,material used for construction of the houses was mainly mud,wood and a little mix of concrete.The village was situated in a small valley with its open end facing towards the khueretta town.

There were two narrow foot trails moving out of the village through the cultivated fields around the village,these trails were leading to an asphalt road located at a distance.Being a remote village there was no electricity connection in that village.The village lay enveloped in darkness but for the dim light of the moon that shone through fleecy clouds,of a cold winter night,there were solar lamps lit in some houses,whose lights could be seen twinkling dimly from the distances .The atmosphere was calm and peaceful ,not a single soul was in sight.Being late at night most of the people were already slept or preparing to go to bed.The moonlight was dimly reflected by the dome of the village mosque.This peace of the village night would now and then broken by barking and howling of dogs somewhere at a distance,as if they have sensed the bad omen that loomed over the village that night.The target house was located at the outer edge of the village,near the bottom of the hill .A glitter of light from the solar lamp was coming through the window of the house indicating that people were still up.

=========

Assault

After scouting and scanning the sleepy village in detail,the team leader held a final briefing after which the team got divided into sub groups and the men encircled the village under the cover of darkness.The sniper took position at vantage point situated on a high ground,providing perfect line of sight of the target house and overlooking the entire village.Some team members took position along the trails moving out of the village,to block the escape routes once the target had arrived.Few men took position around the village,with the entire village covered through their line of fire.A small assault group lead by the team leader moved down towards the village,and positioned themselves in the bushes and thick vegetation surrounding the target house.With everyone in place and the cordon laid,stage was set for the assault ,now the wait began.

There was an eerie silence in the area,just like a graveyard .The ghosts were already there only the "dead body" was yet to arrive.The silence was finally broken by the crackle of radio and the call sign echoing in the ears of the team leader.The forward scout reported that two vehicles had come to a halt on the asphalt road ,just at the edge of one of the trail leading to the village and he could spot 5 figures moving on foot toward the village ; however it was not possible to id them as they had their face covered and not much was visible through the night vision.Contrary to previous input indicating Anwar to be alone ,it was a small group that had arrived. However ,in special forces you are always prepared to expect the unexpected.A mission is a fluid situation ,where you have to adapt as per the situation demand and ensure successful accomplishment of the mission .

The team leader waited with the bated breath,soon he could see those figures approaching the target house.As they came close ,it was clear that 2 of them were holding ak series rifles,since other three were wearing shawl , it was not easy to make out whether they were carrying any weapons or not.The team leader decided to wait and watch before executing the assault. Soon those figures reached the target house,two of them moved inside the house while the three of them stayed outside the house.

The team had special equipment which enabled them to hear the conversation going on inside the target house from a distance,through this they were able to id one of the voice as Anwar,as they were familiar with his voice and had his call recordings in their database.From the conversation it was clear that he had no idea of the danger lurking around,he seemed to have his guard down as he could be heard gossiping about girls and merry making in general.It was the right time for assault,but before the team leader could signal for it ,he was in for a shock , he saw two figures approaching towards him.These two men were among the three men who had stayed outside the target house,they were most probably the bodyguards of Anwar and were caring ak 47 rifles.With these two men approaching ,multiple thoughts start running through his head .Have they seen him,should he deal with them then and there but then any noise could jeopardize their mission and blow their cover too soon.In fraction of seconds he had to evaluate the threat,choose the right course of action to ensure the success of mission. Suddenly out of the two men approaching,one of them halted and turned around while the other kept on coming towards the bush, team leader was positioned in.On approaching the bush the man started lowering his pajama and start preparing to take a piss,at this point the team leader lowered his assault rifle and let it slung by his side, reached out for the khukri he was carrying and then gently draw it out,he had made his decision.

The team leader sprang out of the bush and before the bodyguard could lift his head ,beheaded him in one clean sweep of his khukri in a flash.Even before the dislodged head could roll over the ground ,the team leader turned his attention toward the other bodyguard who was unaware of the carnage that had just occurred behind his back.The elite predator having already tasted the blood of his enemy,carefully approached the second bodyguard from behind .Stalking his prey and moving swiftly , with an elegance of a tiger without making a sound.The head of the bodyguard was already painted by the red dots of the rifle laser of other members of the assault team,any sudden movement would have resulted in a bullet to his head.As the team leader approached his prey from behind, he placed his left hand on the mouth of the bodyguard and slit his throat from the khukri in his right hand ,in a complete text book style kill.In less than a minute death has struck twice ,in complete silence .The blood soaked khukri glittered in the moon light before it went back into into its sheath.With his rifle raised the team leader signaled the rest of the assault team to move in for the assault.They started moving towards the target house ,just like the fog moving swiftly ,silently in a cold winter night .As the assault team approached the house ,there was a thud ,as a high velocity round ripped through the night air and tore through the neck of the third guard postioned in front of the house,killing him instantly before he knew what had hit him.It was a divine intervention,deleiverd by a protective god ,the sniper ,who was overlooking the movement of the assault team from his vantage point.

The door of the house was only partially closed and not locked,within moments the assault team stormed into the house.The first room was large and square, all of stone with walls covered with mud and rugs on the floor.There were two wooden cots placed perpendicular to each other and a wooden trunk placed by the side of the wall with a solar lamp resting on it.A small table was placed in front of the kots. A bottle of alcohol ,jug of water and plates with snacks were placed on that table.Two AK 47 rifles were propped against the wall next to one of the cot.There were two men inside the room,one on each cot with a glass in their hand.One of them was Anwar himself while another one seemed to be the man who was accompanying him.The two men were caught unaware,with complete surprise.The other man had realized that none other than the Death itself had just walked in,his eyes were wide with fear,feelings of disbelief and shock was evident on his face, He went for the ak lying near his cot,when the first bullet ripped through his shoulder.The man opened his mouth to yell,but only a slight grunt came out,as the second and third bullets smashed through his forehead and nose ending his life.Even Anwar realized that his end is near,startled in a fit of rage he stood up , muttering a few cuss words he lifted his hand to throw the glass toward the team leader ,but before he could proceed a kick caught him in the stomach and pushed the air from his lungs.He coughed ,gasping for breath.The toe of the man's hard shoe slammed into him once more sending him onto his back and knocking the wind out of him.In a fit of rage he rose once again on his feet and tried to swung his body wildly, but his attempt was cut short by a bullet that smashed into his skull,shattering the bone as he collasped down,never to rise again.

=============

Mission Accomplished

This is how the story of Anwar came to an end.With his head blown open by a bullet, brain spilled out all over the floor and the body laid there in a pool of blood.His death was a reflection of the life he had lived ,all bloody and mess.Meanwhile few members of the assault team carried out the thorough search of the house,they found the owner of the house along with his wife and two daughters bundled in a corner of one room(the assault team was aware of their identity ,due to prior intel).The ladies were crying profoundly in a state of fear and hysteria ,the man was folding his trembling hands with his eyes wide open,as he looked in horror towards these angles of Death who had descended upon his house that fateful night.It was ensured that none of them was carrying any weapon and then they were made to sit in a corner with their mouth shut.During all this, a field dressing was applied to the head of the dead body of Anwar ,to cover all the mess and ensure that his head remain intact ,his body had to be taken back across the LOC as per the orders.Within few minutes they placed the dead body of Anwar on a body bag they were carrying and were ready to move out.Many villagers had heard the sound of the gunshots leading to noise and commotion in the village,however not a single soul could dare to move toward that house, as they were aware that it was not a wild animal but the devil himself who was on hunt that night and any movement or any interference in the devil's playground would be detrimental to their fate.With the task accomplished, soon the predators set out of the house and melt away in the dense vegetation and darkness of the night ,just like they had arrived.The dead body of Anwar ,as well as the few intel gathered from the spot was carried back.The rifles of the dead terrorists were also taken as a trophy of the hunt.They made their way back to their base through the LOC as per the pre determined exfil routes,the mission was successful and revenge had been served cold.

=========
The End

By daybreak the predators were back at their den.What they had left behind was a trail of destruction and mayhem,the four dead bodies lying in and around the target house were the only mark left behind by them, which signify their wrath which fell upon the Pakistani village that night.Whatever happened that night would surely turn into the folklore of that village ,and will be passed from one generation to the other.If you happen to visit that village and hear the tale of the Devils lurking in night,you better believe it.

The dead body of Anwar was displayed to certain group of people,positioned higher up in the government,now it lies six feet under the ground somewhere inside the Indian territory .The news of his death was revealed to the general public,but the people who were credited and the circumstance and place of his death were altered.The people who carried out the hunt will always remain in the shadows ,only to rise once again , when the blood needs to flow ,to raise a storm and strike the fear into the hearts of our enemies.To deliver fire and fury ,whenever and wherever the Nation Demand.

===========

Photos

1.

2. A special one which tasted blood in 1 cross LoC Raid

3. Dead of An war his ID card

4. LoC terrain where Indian Army stands guard 24/7 and crossed over whenever necessary



https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_ ... 4991274372

[Mollick.R]

Decision -

The chief put forward few requests along with the request to be granted the operational freedom ,which is granted to him.As the meeting near its end ,

there is a request made by the highest chair in the meeting,he remember the incident of the particular decapitation carried out by the Pakistani BAT which is mentioned above ,he wants it to be avenged .All the person present there obliged to the request.A decision is made then and there to punish the main culprit behind the beheading and to seek revenge of the decapitation of our soldiers.

1. "Requesting Oprerational Freedom"
Once again proved during UPA era forces were fighting paki terror with hands tied at back

2. "Highest chair wanted incident to be avenged"
Who ??? NM ? MP ? Or AD ?

[sum]

Can literally feel all the hairs in my body standing up on reading this.

Well written and very good to know about it though i wish the SOB, Anwar was kept alive in pain a bit more rather than a fast exit which was provided

[sum]

Article of that time whch mentioned that Anwar Khan was killed at LoC while crossing over
Indian Army kills Pakistani terrorist who beheaded Lance Naik Hemraj

The militant that was killed by Indian Army on Monday in Poonch along the Line of Control (LoC) has been identified as Anwar Khan who was involved in the beheading of Lance Naik Hemraj in January 2013.

On Monday, a group of militants tried to sneak into the Indian side along the LoC in Balnoie area of Mehndar tehsil.

The troops guarding the LoC challenged the infiltrators, resulting in the encounter in which one militant Anwar Khan was killed.

Sources told India TV that Mohammad Anwar Khan was the one who beheaded Hemraj on January 8 2013. Anwar alias Azhar was paid Rs five lakh as reward by ISI for beheading Hemraj. It was a 15 member team of Lashkar and Jaish terrorists that killed Hemraj.

ISI subedar Jabbar khan of Takkapani unit was heading the operation. Anwar was an expert in reconnaissance and was referred to as ‘master'. He was local guide of Pakistan's Border Action Team (BAT).

There were three guides with the team but it was Anwar who killed Hemraj. He was also involved in beheading of an Army captain in Krishna Ghati area in 1996.

Anwar ran a shop in Pakistan occupied Kashmir (POK).

[Sumair]

Good accounts of our covert capabilities and small glimpse into our vast human Intel network but still very inefficient utilization of resources. For some strange reason we have decided to fight with our hands tied behind our backs. We are still engaging in these one of, tit for tat army operations. WHY play by their rules when we have overwhelming and asymmetrical air superiority. We need unleash the air force and demoralize the hell out of these porkies. After all it is not the army only war. Case for urgent need of joint chief of staff.

[vasu raya]

Great to hear that all the fighting happened in the dark with NVDs and good situational awareness

[Sid]

Great to hear that all the fighting happened in the dark with NVDs and good situational awareness

Though let me ask this question, why Hemraj and colleagues were patrolling on the other side of the fence when that part of the territory was easily accessible to the enemy. Can they see through the foliage and fog in the dark?

There are Indian posts on both sides of the fence. Other side of the fence is Indian territory too. It may sound risky, and it is, but those patrols are there to deter any enemy movement on our territory. There is a reason they had to form such hit and run units to harass our patrols, as they do not allow easy movement of meat from the land of $hit.

Btw if possible that person should have been bought back alive. I concur with @sum on this.

[Aarvee]

Great to hear that all the fighting happened in the dark with NVDs and good situational awareness

Btw if possible that person should have been bought back alive. I concur with @sum on this.

I remember reading in an interview of US SF(?) who had participated in some joint training program with Indian SF (NSG?) that our ppl prefer early morning action, just before dawn, while they preferred dead of the night. He opined it could be because of our ppl not used to having NVDs etc. Good that our std equipment and SOPs with them are evolving.

I too first wished that the pig could have been bought back alive. But then thought about law of the land etc. If he was brought here, legal issues might have prevented the news ever being released. Killing him here would have created legal issues for the army.

Just finish the business in the pigsty of the country and bring back trophies!

I wish we become proactive rather than reactive. Make them shiver in fright thinking of when and where thunder could strike. The piglets should be scared enough to not want border postings.

[A Deshmukh]

Great work.
I Salute our Armed Forces.

[A Deshmukh]

Decision must have been taken my NM.
reports says new govt. MP was not Raksha Mantri then.
He remembered the incident. AD would not remember, he would know in and out of the incident.

[vasu raya]

I remember reading in an interview of US SF(?) who had participated in some joint training program with Indian SF (NSG?) that our ppl prefer early morning action, just before dawn, while they preferred dead of the night. He opined it could be because of our ppl not used to having NVDs etc. Good that our std equipment and SOPs with them are evolving.

I remember the same quote, and Indian SF operators were more interested in the optics than any other equipment the US SF carried. So far J&K ops still take a break in the night with only cordon maintained though its a more dynamic situation and not everyone involved is equipped or trained at the same levels.

[vasu raya]

There are Indian posts on both sides of the fence. Other side of the fence is Indian territory too. It may sound risky, and it is, but those patrols are there to deter any enemy movement on our territory. There is a reason they had to form such hit and run units to harass our patrols, as they do not allow easy movement of meat from the land of $hit.

They need some form of secondary surveillance in addition to not walking blind

[Aarvee]

I remember the same quote

https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-arm ... -1st-time/

Some what condescending but here's an article from that time talking about this.

Hope this isnt too OT here.

[Shameek]

Great read about the revenge raid. Interesting to note that the assault was silent and suppressed till they entered the house and then they went loud. Of course if they were detected then it would have been a 'loud' mission from that point on. But it would be interesting to know why they did not keep it quiet all the way. It is possible it could be a warning to inquisitive villagers to keep away. There have been discussions about using suppressed weapons earlier and this would be another case. Of course, I am not an expert on tactics and may be missing the reasoning.

[Kashi]

I think it could have been deliberate to mark their presence there. The target was Anwar, but the message was meant to be sent beyond that.

[UlanBatori]

"We will come in and kill your ***** leaders whenever we please". Message conveyed.

[sum]

So, no TSPA units nearby mobilised after all those noises too or they just decided best was to stay clear of any danger?

Also, were the rest of the BAT team ( and not just the leader) also hunted down?

[Kashi]

So, no TSPA units nearby mobilised after all those noises too or they just decided best was to stay clear of any danger?

Perfectly in line with their character. After all how many TSPA units turned up to confront the Paras when they decimated six targets across the LoC or the Americans when they took out Bin Laden in Abbottabad?

[manjgu]

it does not happen this way... that TSPA units will turn up because there is some gunfire... just like IA ..they will ring up the chain of command...wait for orders from their superiors... then try to get some transport if available.. they have SOP's which they will follow ... gunfire could be diversion etc...

[Deans]

it does not happen this way... that TSPA units will turn up because there is some gunfire... just like IA ..they will ring up the chain of command...wait for orders from their superiors... then try to get some transport if available.. they have SOP's which they will follow ... gunfire could be diversion etc...

I would imagine the IA's response time would be faster simply because our men on the LOC fully expect infiltration attempts and being the target for BAT teams. They would have to exercise initiative and respond without waiting for instructions. Our cross border raids would force a rethink of doctrine and training for the PA. In the short run, increased Pak army patrolling may actually lead to them taking more casualties, as their soldiers get exposed, they step on landmines, get lost etc.

[Aditya G]

it does not happen this way... that TSPA units will turn up because there is some gunfire... just like IA ..they will ring up the chain of command...wait for orders from their superiors... then try to get some transport if available.. they have SOP's which they will follow ... gunfire could be diversion etc...

There were 2-3 confirmed Pak army KIAs.

When and how did they die? None of the accounts thus far have explained this. In no interview was this asked to Gen Hooda or Gen Dalbir

[Shameek]

^ We also don't know the identities of the 4 others that were KIA. Is it possible some of them were PA?

[Kashi]

it does not happen this way... that TSPA units will turn up because there is some gunfire... just like IA ..they will ring up the chain of command...wait for orders from their superiors... then try to get some transport if available.. they have SOP's which they will follow ... gunfire could be diversion etc...

How long does it take to seek permission, activate SOPs and turn up after hearing gunfire and explosions, Carl Gustafs being fired and even structures set to fire?

The Para strikes across different locations went through the night into early morning.

The American raid on Bin Laden compound went on for a couple of hours.

How many Baki fauji showed up during that time? How much transport did they need to travel from their military academy/base, a couple of miles down the road?

[manjgu]

Kashi bhai..all i can say please chk with people in know. PA or IA are not some super duper effecient machines... robot like... always alert..reacting in a jiffy... the action took place on isolated posts in remote locations..( where sound of gunfire etc is routine) .. only posts which are covering each other can provide some supporting fire ..the action took place in dead of night for max 1 or 2 hours ( i doubt that..could be shorter durations).. in this short window ..to get necessary permissions then to mobilise troops..reach the site of action etc.. is virtually impossible.

[UlanBatori]

POK is a place where the mards all carry AKs. Sound of gunfire means nothing more than the Pakis voicing opinions or having slight disagreements. If PA mobilized for every sound of gunfire, they wouldn't have time for anything else. This is the most likely explanation for lack of response either from villagers or PA - not that they were pajama-shivering thinking that yindoo Avengers had arrived.

[Kashi]

Kashi bhai..all i can say please chk with people in know. PA or IA are not some super duper effecient machines... robot like... always alert..reacting in a jiffy... the action took place on isolated posts in remote locations..( where sound of gunfire etc is routine) .. only posts which are covering each other can provide some supporting fire ..the action took place in dead of night for max 1 or 2 hours ( i doubt that..could be shorter durations).. in this short window ..to get necessary permissions then to mobilise troops..reach the site of action etc.. is virtually impossible.

Manjgu bhai, all I can say is please do understand that people may actually be putting their points of view both after examining the facts and with inputs from people with a deeper and probably closer understanding of the ground situation. It was highlighted on another forum that one of the Baki army units did indeed respond to one of the surgical strikes by sending a truckload of soldiers, but as they neared the sight and saw the carnage- fire, burning structures etc. they turned tail. This was the attack where the Ghataks of the Bihar regiment crossed over and joined the Paras in dispatching Bakis to hell and were all set to dispatch more before the truck decided to flee.

Since you have spoken about isolated posts, what was the excuse for the Baki army no-show at Abbottabad, which was neither isolated nor accustomed to routine gunfire and explosions (except perhaps from the fauji academy a "stone's throw" away). I am sure you may find a Chankian explanation for this.

[manjgu]

a) the OBL raid was another beast...the PAF didnt react as well.. I dont know how long did the OBL raid went on... what levers were being pulled. I am sure the PA HQ was told to stay away from the raid. b) But to expect support to come in for isolated mountainous post is asking for the moon from any army. Kashi as per what you have read , how long did the actual firing happen during surgical strikes ( max..min duration)??

[Kashi]

See the details here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Osama_bin_Laden

The raid was intended to take 40 minutes. The actual time between the team's entry in and exit from the compound was 38 minutes.

This does not include flying time into and out of Abbottabad, boarding, de-boarding etc.

Baki airforce did respond, but as per their convenience..

Pakistan's foreign secretary Salman Bashir later confirmed that Pakistani military had scrambled F-16s after they became aware of the attack but that they reached the compound after the U.S. helicopters had left.

Are the F-16s so slow that they could not chase after fleeing helicopters? And if TSPAF had the time to respond, why not TSPA, they would have even shorter mobilisation time.

Now if you wish to ascribe Chankian spin to why Baki fizzleyas and fauj did not respond sooner (or at all), be my guest.

Regarding the surgical strikes, the details including the timings and the duration of the individual and cumulative strikes are well available in this very thread, including a very nicely done documentary on the History channel. You'll find all the info that you need.

Also Baki fauj may overlook odd gunshots as routine, but surely burning structures would have attracted more attention.

[manjgu]

a) there is no chankian spin... the OBL raid was by USA... the PA/PAF could not afford to tangle with them. they would have been told at appropriate time not to mess with the operation b) i still maintain its not easy to react in the kind of terrain the surgical strikes took place...when u r hit suddenly in dead of night and the attackers make a quick exit.

[Akshay Kapoor]

Couple of points :

When do you react to something ? When it is in your AOR (Area of Responsibility) and you think something is happening and you have the means to react. The job of troops manning posts is to man them and give fire support from the posts to other posts not to to leave them them. A battalion on our our side guarding a particlar AOR will have static deployments in posts, bunkers but will also have patrols and and reserves for sending to any area needed. MT (Military Transport) will be available for reserves. But in these terrain the MT will just drop them off some distance away and they will have to walk. It is these reserves / QRTs that will be activated if needed. All gunfire will be investigated and it will have to be established that a reaction is needed and its not a diversion etc. All contingencies will be catered for. So depending upon the terrian (and this is the most important variable) at least 30 mins to 1 hour minimum should be expected for reacting forces to reach. In other areas it could be 2 hours.

However on their side they will take even longer to react (at least before surgical strikes) because they are not conditioned to expect attacks. They did not have as many patrols as us and they did not always have QRTs. So in the window available 1-2 hours reaction was not expected except from posts close to the locations and that too by fire.So Manjgu is correct on that aspect.

It is these posts we took out as necessary. The Pak casualties during surgical strikes were from one of the teams knocking out a Pak army post which was in close support to the launch pads.


However egress would become extremely difficult because then there was enough time for them to get some semblance of a picture and send patrols and direct fire to expected egress areas. That is why I am furious at the government for giving such detail on egress.

Hope this clarifies.

[Aditya G]

In any case Para SF would not have struck a camp where retaliation from Pak Army was too easy.

[Akshay Kapoor]

No Aditya, the selection was done on which camps were the best targets ie had the maximum number of terrorists.

[vasu raya]

https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-arm ... -1st-time/

Some what condescending but here's an article from that time talking about this.

Hope this isnt too OT here.

Regarding the wide spread adoption of NVDs, cost may be a factor, then there is the issue of some sections in JKP symphathetic to the insurgency, they lose Insas rifles and will be more then willing to lose NVDs, a loose end. The recent attack in Afghanistan by NVD wearing terrorists from Pak and the damage they had done should be noted and the use of US/British supplied NVDs meant for anti terrorist ops by paki terrorists is in itself was a message to the US.

so, its very possible that NVDs of Indian make would be a good cover to the anti-India groups if they can lay their hands on them. Though the use of cell phones by terrorists in J&K had led to their killing in droves so much so that they banned their use, NVDs with transmitters for police forces might make it unsuitable for theft. Then the use of custom batteries in NVDs, we heard about the inoperable Stingers because of expired batteries. Its interesting though the Chinese never had a chance to hack into those? and help the paki terrorists.

[Bart S]

https://www.armytimes.com/news/your-arm ... -1st-time/

Some what condescending but here's an article from that time talking about this.

Hope this isnt too OT here.

Regarding the wide spread adoption of NVDs, cost may be a factor, then there is the issue of some sections in JKP symphathetic to the insurgency, they lose Insas rifles and will be more then willing to lose NVDs, a loose end. The recent attack in Afghanistan by NVD wearing terrorists from Pak and the damage they had done should be noted and the use of US/British supplied NVDs meant for anti terrorist ops by paki terrorists is in itself was a message to the US.

so, its very possible that NVDs of Indian make would be a good cover to the anti-India groups if they can lay their hands on them. Though the use of cell phones by terrorists in J&K had led to their killing in droves so much so that they banned their use, NVDs with transmitters for police forces might make it unsuitable for theft. Then the use of custom batteries in NVDs, we heard about the inoperable Stingers because of expired batteries. Its interesting though the Chinese never had a chance to hack into those? and help the paki terrorists.

I don't think anybody is advocating (or thinking of) giving out expensive NVDs to J&K police (SOG etc might be exceptions), it is probably too expensive anyway. But RR and regular/special IA units certainly need them in much larger numbers than currently available.

[vasu raya]

Just want to see night ops as the norm in the encounters in J&K, and they all need to be kitted up for that. while BPJ upgrade is in progress, haven't heard about NVDs ...

[arun]

Pakistan was informed of 2016 surgical strikes before announcing to Indian media, says PM Modi in London :

IANS

Predictably the Mohammadden Terrorism Fomenting Islamic Republic of Pakistan continues to deny:

Pakistan again denies surgical strikes across LoC, calls PM Modi's claims false and baseless

[ramana]

NaMo might have informed Pak as a de-escalation measure.

Its to convey its not the beginning of a war but a punitive strike to get rid of terrorists hiding in PoK.