Indo-UK News & Discussions- June 2017

[Philip]

More reports:
So if Skripal,was pally with other intel entities,sniffing around the oligarch community in Ru and abroad,whom could he have pissed off badly enough to want to whack him? The Kremlin had pardoned him,they felt he wasn't worth anything.London and Britain is home to the worst scum of the earth fro all quarters of the globe .An ex-spy like Skripal would've had his uses and some contacts working in the "grey" industry.Since the Brits already knew whom he was working for,from this admission,it shouldn't be difficult to make a list of potential of potentila suspects.But how they did it is going to be v.difficult as the hitmen or women employed would've now scarpered ,vanished into thin air..abroad and unlikely to ever be identified or caught.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... ei-skripal

Russian spy poisoning inquiry widens after medics treat 21 people
Officers investigating nerve gas poisoning begin major search at Sergei Skripal’s house and seal off a garage
Luke Harding, Steven Morris and Caroline Bannock

Fri 9 Mar 2018
The investigation into the attempted murder of Sergei Skripal has widened, as police sealed off the graves of his wife, Liudmila, and son, Alexander, and confirmed that a total of 21 people had been treated as a result of the incident.

The police officer who was exposed to the nerve agent used on the Skripals, named on Thursday as DS Nick Bailey, remained in a serious but stable condition.

Bailey was described by Wiltshire’s temporary chief constable, Kier Pritchard, as “a massively dedicated officer”. Pritchard said Bailey was “very anxious, very concerned” but sitting up in bed and talking.

The prime minister, Theresa May, said: “We are all thinking of him, his family, friends and colleagues – and the two other victims – at what is an incredibly difficult time.

“The events of Sunday are a stark reminder, if ever one was needed, of the dangerous situations our emergency services face and the dedication and courage they display every day in order to keep us safe.”

Earlier, the home secretary, Amber Rudd, described the use of a nerve agent in a busy city centre as “attempted murder in the most cruel and public way” as pressure on the government and police for answers continued to grow.

Forensics officers began a major search for evidence at Skripal’s semi-detached house. They also cordoned off the graves in Salisbury cemetery where Liudmila and Alexander Skripal were interred in adjacent plots, and sealed off a garage and recovery service elsewhere in the city.

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Rudd condemned the poisoning of Skripal, 66, and his daughter Yulia, 33, as a “brazen and reckless act”. They remained “unconscious and in a critical but stable condition” in hospital, Rudd told MPs.

She refused to give details of the agent used in what Scotland Yard has said was an attack specifically targeting the Russians. She said experts at the government’s laboratory at Porton Down had positively identified the substance. “It is very rare,” she said.

The use of a nerve toxin, usually only held in state military stockpiles, is being seen as a key indicator of possible Kremlin involvement. On Thursday, the Russian embassy in London sent a sarcastic tweet, saying of Skripal: “He was actually a British spy, working for MI6.”

Moscow has repeatedly denied it has anything to do with the attack, the same line used when the FSB officer Alexander Litvinenko was poisoned in 2006 with a radioactive cup of tea. A public inquiry a decade later ruled the Kremlin had ordered the hit.

The Salisbury attack left Skripal and his daughter in a comatose condition last Sunday afternoon, on a bench in the Maltings shopping centre.

Detectives will be seeking to establish how the toxin was delivered – and, crucially, where. One source suggested that Bailey was exposed to the nerve agent from inside Skripal’s house and not in the city centre, as was previously thought.

It is understood that the cordon at the cemetery is in place primarily to keep media away from the graves of Liudmila Skripal, who died of cancer in 2012 aged 59, and Alexander Skripal, who died in March last year in St Petersburg, aged 43.

There was no sign of activity taking place on the site, but the family’s run of ominous bad luck is likely to prompt police to examine whether Liudmila and Alexander may have been victims of foul play.

Police sealed off a new location on Churchfields industrial estate about five minutes by car from Skripal’s home. Officers in protective suits could be seen in the yard of Ashley Wood vehicle recovery services, and paramedics stood by. One car they looked at was a BMW that was partially hidden under a tarpaulin. It is understood that Skripal drove a BMW. Officers from the counter-terrorism command removed boxes from the site.

Friends of Yulia Skripal’s in Moscow described her as an intelligent young woman, fluent in English and Spanish, as well as Russian. They said her comfortable life was destroyed in 2004 when her father – a career officer in GRU military intelligence – was accused of spying for MI6. “We were all totally shocked when her father was jailed,” her school friend Irina Petrova told the Guardian. “These were very tough years for Yulia. She was deeply affected by her father’s sentence.”

On the ground in Salisbury, detectives have divided the investigation into three separate sites: the Skripals’ home, the Mill pub, where they had been drinking, and the Zizzi restaurant where they had eaten before collapsing at around 4.15pm.

New photographs taken at 5.10pm showed the aftermath of the police operation, minutes after Skripal and his daughter were taken to hospital. Officers in ordinary uniforms were working at the scene and members of the public were strolling nearby. None of the police wore protective clothing.

Who is the Salisbury spy Sergei Skripal? – video explainer
Unlike in the case of Litvinenko, who was poisoned with slow-acting polonium, detectives got to the scene in Salisbury quickly. Hundreds of officers are examining CCTV footage from the city centre and building a detailed timeline of events.

Speaking to ITV’s Good Morning Britain, Rudd said: “Whatever attribution takes place in the future, we have to make sure we have all the evidence. The key thing is to have a cool head and allow [those investigating the incident] to continue that job, which they are doing with speed and with detail and with the support of professionalism we can expect.”

Asked if she believed the poisoning was a Russian assassination attempt, Rudd said: “I’m determined to wait before any attribution [is made] until we have the facts. I’m completely confident that the police will be able to get that.”

The defence secretary, Gavin Williamson, told the programme that Russia was “becoming an ever greater threat”.

He declined to say, however, whether he held Russia responsible for the attack, saying only: “What’s happened is absolutely disgusting and it is so important we give the police the space and opportunity to do a proper and thorough investigation.”

[Singha]

a new report says he was chums with a lad who produced the trump dossier on russian involvement.

[Cosmo_R]

Pro Tip: Do not list spy work on your LinkedIn bio

https://qz.com/1224822/a-linkedin-bio-r ... er-steele/

[nam]

I have seen our own guys mention being in the SG on LinkedIn.

I don't know if it is a sensible thing to do.

[JE Menon]

^^As far as I know, within certain limits, there is no rule which says you can't list your service experience. Everybody needs jobs and very often, such experience can make or break a steady source of income. There are limits of course, but it is true that CVs often disclose things that you might not otherwise even remotely imagine we were engaged in.

[IndraD]

Poisoned Russian spy was 'codenamed Forthwith' and remained 'highly valued' by MI6 even AFTER settling in Britain following exchange that led to release of glamorous GRU agent Anna Chapman

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z59KvAQ77O

[Philip]

So he was theoretically fair game betraying his pardon or was in the crosshairs of pvt. entities threatened by his activities.

[Philip]

Perfidious Albion! Celebrating a " Burhan Wanni Day"! The duplicity, hypocrisy and chicanery of the White Men of England ( in particular), stand completely dxposed as they blatantly celebrate Burhan Wann, mindful of their Paki votebank.The GOI should not just protest vehemently but threaten the Brit. bandicoots that wd will walk out of the Commonwealth and Brit royals who love a freebie holidat at the GOI/ Indian taxpayer's expense, can henceforth stand in the Q themselves gor visas and do their own hotel bookings and pay for all their expenses.

India too can celebrate anti- British terrorists in India, sorry, true freedom fighters like the IRA.In fact the Irish flag and India's have the same colours.The Real IRA have never accepted the deal that has resulted in power sharing in Ulster/ N.Ireland whichever side of the fence you are.Similarly we can support to the hilt the Argentinian case for the Malvinas (aka the Falklands).

With a v.successful visit by Pres.Macron in India, Franco-Indian relations will now be the most valuable in Europe and Brexit Britain can take the " exit" and comfort themselves getting knifed, crushed, and blown apart and rogered any-which-way by their terrprist and Paki bumchums in Briatinistan!

[Philip]

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world ... 46431.html

[IndraD]

MI6 dilemma
But if the perception emerges that it cannot protect those agents - even if they are in the UK - then it will make it much harder to do its job and recruit agents to gather intelligence.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-43360420 Russian spy: Traces of nerve agent 'found at Zizzi' where he ate last

[Singha]

Wasnt boris berezovsky the oligarch also put down in similar way ?

We need a team to arrest our fugitives from nepal border after capturing them around the world

[Philip]

Sensational revelations in the UK media.The Tory party has re d. over 3M GBP in " donations" from Ru oligarchs,"legitimate" funding says its Chancellor of the Exchequer (FM)! A plea by the widow of the assassinated ex-KGB spy, Litvinenko to return over i00, 000 BGP was rejected. Moreover, in the one year of May's govt., more money was taken from Ru oligarchs than during 7 years of Cameron's era.

So with the Conservative party officially on the take...and one does know what kickbacks under the table, the anti- Russian policies of the Brit. govt. is easily explained.From one side the Ru oligarchs and mafia fund them on the other side the Pakis use their voting strength in Britainistan and Arab/ Saudi despots keep them in clover with wheeler-dealer defence contracts which are blocked from inquiry by the SFO ( serious fraud office), as was blocked not too long ago by Cameron in bribery allegations over Saudi arms deals.

So much for HMG!

[Singha]

Pretty well oiled machinery it seems. No wonder all global crroks keep a real estate there and first port of call if things head south

Uk sure takes care of them

[manju]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/glo ... 5d97c19544

some excertps
"..........
...
But the principal victims of Winston Churchill were the Indians — “a beastly people with a beastly religion,” as he charmingly called them. He wanted to use chemical weapons in India but was shot down by his cabinet colleagues, whom he criticized for their “squeamishness,” declaring that “the objections of the India Office to the use of gas against natives are unreasonable.”

Churchill’s beatification as an apostle of freedom seems all the more preposterous given his 1941 declaration that the Atlantic Charter’s principles would not apply to India and the colored colonies. He refused to see people of color as entitled to the same rights as himself. “Gandhi-ism and all it stands for,” he declared, “will, sooner or later, have to be grappled with and finally crushed.”


In such matters, Churchill was the most reactionary of Englishmen, with views so extreme they cannot be excused as being reflective of their times. Even his own secretary of state for India, Leopold Amery, confessed that he could see very little difference between Churchill’s attitude and Adolf Hitler’s.

Thanks to Churchill, some 4 million Bengalis starved to death in a 1943 famine. Churchill ordered the diversion of food from starving Indian civilians to well-supplied British soldiers and even to top up European stockpiles in Greece and elsewhere. When reminded of the suffering of his Indian victims, his response was that the famine was their own fault, he said, for “breeding like rabbits.”

Madhusree Mukerjee’s searing account of Churchill’s role in the Bengal famine, Churchill’s Secret War,” “documents that while Indians starved, prices for foodgrains were inflated by British purchases and India’s own surplus grains were exported, while Australian ships laden with wheat were not allowed to unload their cargo at Calcutta (where the bodies of those who had died of starvation littered the streets). Instead, Churchill ordered that grain be shipped to storage depots in the Mediterranean and the Balkans to increase the buffer stocks for a possible future invasion of Greece and Yugoslavia. European warehouses filled up as Bengalis died.


This week’s Oscar rewards yet another hagiography of this odious man. To the Iraqis whom Churchill advocated gassing, the Greek protesters on the streets of Athens who were mowed down on Churchill’s orders in 1944, sundry Pashtuns and Irish, as well as to Indians like myself, it will always be a mystery why a few bombastic speeches have been enough to wash the bloodstains off Churchill’s racist hands.

Many of us will remember Churchill as a war criminal and an enemy of decency and humanity, a blinkered imperialist untroubled by the oppression of non-white peoples. Ultimately, his great failure — his long darkest hour — was his constant effort to deny us freedom."

[komal]

^
The comments section is interesting: Coloreds are barbarians anyway so what does it matter.

[sanjaykumar]

Have not read the comments, but Tharoor and all need to acknowledge that the Irish were 'done by' Churchill. They indeed were not considered white enough or, in America, white at all. Much as poor Southerners aren't quite proper white either.

I would take it easy on the non-white thing. Churchill was a beastly man with a beastly religion. At least he was an equal opportunity beast.

[Ravi Karumanchiri]

When will there be a film on Winston Churchill, the barbaric monster with the blood of millions on his hands?
Imperialistic pop culture has enshrined Churchill only as a military great, a fun drunk, a loyal monarchist with a penchant for fine speech and a flair for loquacious prose. But the British PM lacerated the world with tragedies, profiting from plunders and mass murders, writes Shree Paradkar.

Yet, what did the actor Gary Oldman who portrayed Churchill in Darkest Hour say last Sunday when he received an Oscar for Best Actor? “I would just like to salute Sir Winston Churchill who has been marvellous company on what can be described as an incredible journey.”

Salute. Sir. Marvellous. Incredible.

Oldman might as well have danced on 3 million dead bodies, many of whom were too weak to cremate or bury their loved ones.

Such tributes for a heinous white supremacist who once declared that “Aryan tribes were bound to triumph.”

Words as hollow as the tunnel-visioned ideals on which people fashion this man, but they can’t stem the drip, drip of blood from his hands.

^^^^^^^^^^^^
Worth reading, IMO.

[Philip]

Let's put things in perspective.Oldman deserved hos Oscar for a great portrayal of Churchill,the wartime leader who never succumbed to the fascist Hitler. The film Dunkirk was the worst war film I've ever seen not only for its bogus account,and fictitious incidents,but for completely ignoring the strategic nature of the battle,or non-battle as it was.There was more info in "Darkest Hour" about Dunkirk than in that piece of rubbish.

Hitler had one fatal weakness during the War,that is the affinity for the British.he well knew that Britain,England more of,was in large part Germanic,immigrants over centuries from Germany,and its royal family German too.He thus never wanted to destroy Britain or its Aryan people,but hoped that they would come to an accommodation with it as far as possible.There were also many Brits who had similar feelings for Germany and Hitler.Most prominent amongst the royals was the Duke of Windsor,who hero-worshipped Hitler and was sent off to the Bahamas as Governor,to stay away from trouble.He happily used his position there to fill his pockets smuggling gold! His secret correspondence with Hitler as well as other very incriminating papers were recovered after the war in a secret operation by Sir Anthony Blunt,one of the infamous "Cambridge 5",well-placed Soviet spies in British Intel,the Foreign Office,etc. Blunt was keeper of the royal art collection and was also related to the Queen Mother.

Hitler could've easily decimated the trapped British army at Dunkirk,but did not,as he hoped that London would seek an armistice after the fall of France. Churchill's amazing ability to turn a defeat of the BEF in Europe into a "glorious victory",the "miracle" of Dunkirk,just like the famous "Charge of the Light Brigade",immortalising as heroic one of the most asinine events ever recorded in military history.Instead of Tennyson's stirring verses,all one needed here was Churchill's stentorian prose,and his most famous of speeches of all,perhaps by any wartime leader in history. Hitler later sent his trusted comrade Rudolph Hess to carry a peace proposal,parley in secret and negotiate a replacement for Churchill,from amongst the pro-German establishment and royals.Hess landed in the wrong place and was captured,Churchill then allegedly sabotaged the amphib aircraft taking Hess back to Germany Sweden and all aboard died in the crash in Scotland.A double stood in for Hess throughout and after the war,and even at Nuremberg,Goering and other Nazis were sure that he was a fake.

Churchill was utterly ruthless in war,getting his way and goal by any means.There wasn't a shred of sympathy or weakness as a wartime leader.He allegedly also betrayed through his top double agent,the Dieppe raid by the Canadians,who suffered huge losses,so that he could later fool them over the location of the D-Day landings.But even the British people dumped him in the elections after the war .Churchill's derision of India and its peoples is another story which deserves fuller attention and should be placed in the context of British rule in India,taking over from the East India Co.,and its colonial history around the globe,were lakhs of Indians were forced to work overseas as virtual slave labour as far away as the West Indies,Fiji,Mauritius,Sri Lanka,apart from millions protecting the backsides of the British during WW1 and WW2 and sundry campaigns in Mespot,Afghanistan,etc.! It was only when we Indians rebelled for the second time under Netaji and the INA,that Attlee, Churchill's Labour PM and successor ,put a swift end to British imperialism in the sub-continent,as he knew that all hat was required was a spark to set off another mutiny that would see the white man exterminated from India.The RIN mutiny accelerated the decision to declare independence for (India.

PS:One thing the Pakis have also learnt from the Brits and Churchill was to turn their humiliating defeats in '48,'65 and '71 and even Kargil, as the most glorious victories of the Pakis over India! Of course they have no answer to being defeated in '48 from capturing the Kashmir Valley,stopped in their tracks and and were in headlong retreat in '65,when we were on the verge of capturing Lahore, and dismembered into two in '71,with almost 100,000 Paki prisoners captured,the largest since WW2! As for Kargil,Pak were saved by running to Uncle Sam and pleading with him for relief as Musha-Rat's r masterstroke unravelled.

[Philip]

Theresa May under pressure to issue strong measures against Russia over poisoning of former spy
MPs and widow of murdered dissident Alexander Litvinenko demand tougher stance against Vladimir Putin, ahead of National Security Council meeting on Monday

Rob Merrick Deputy Political Editor
Indy Politics

Police told residents ‘not to be alarmed’ after the military removed a number of vehicles AFP/Getty
Theresa May has come under pressure to plan strong retaliation against Russia over the poisoning of former spy Sergei Skripal, ahead of security talks with the Cabinet and after a fresh warning to people in Salisbury.

MPs and the widow of murdered dissident Alexander Litvinenko both demanded a tougher stance against Vladimir Putin, as the finger of suspicion continued to point to a Kremlin plot.

A meeting of the National Security Council (NSC) on Monday is expected to see senior ministers also call for an agreement to beef up Britain’s response.

In the Wiltshire city, hundreds of diners and pub-goers were told to wash their clothing and possessions, after traces of the nerve agent used to poison the double agent and his daughter were found.

READ MORE
Tories ‘will not pay back’ huge donations from Russian oligarchs
Anyone who was in The Mill pub between 1.30pm last Sunday and 11.10pm on Monday, or the nearby Zizzi restaurant between 1.30pm on Sunday and 9pm on Monday, was urged to follow the advice.

Senior ministers, led by Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson, are expected to use the special meeting of the NSC to urge stronger measures, despite no confirmation that Russia was responsible for the nerve-agent attack.

Mr Johnson accused Russia of “acts of war” in an inflammatory Commons statement last week, to the fury of its leaders who have denied any involvement in the attack on the country’s former intelligence officer.

The Prime Minister, who chairs the NSC, is reported to have silenced Mr Johnson in Cabinet last Tuesday when he said Russia was responsible – but he is thought to have Gavin Williamson, the Defence Secretary, among his allies.

They are likely to be emboldened by criticism of British timidity by the widow of murdered Russian dissident Alexander Litvinenko, who accused Ms May of broken promises.

Marina Litvinenko produced a letter, sent to her by Ms May, when Home Secretary, promising to “continue to pursue justice”, to ensure no repeat of her husband’s killing on British soil.

“Unfortunately, it happened again and the lesson after the murder of my husband was not learned,” she told the BBC’s Andrew Marr Show.

Ms Litvinenko called for the return of more than £820,000 donated to the Tory party by Russian oligarchs, since Ms May came to power, saying: “You need to be very careful who you are friends with.”

But Philip Hammond, the Chancellor, refused the plea – insisting the cash was legitimate and denying the Kremlin was “laughing at us” over Britain’s response to the Litvinenko killing and the Salisbury poisoning.

He will attend the NSC meeting and warned: “If there were to be an involvement of a foreign state, evidenced by this investigation, then obviously that would be very serious indeed and the government would respond appropriately.”

Meanwhile, Labour and Tory rebels accused the Government of dragging its heels on a British version of the US “Magnitsky Act”, to target foreigners involved in human rights abuses.

The 2012 American legislation was designed to punish Russian officials involved in the suspicious death in a Russian jail of the lawyer Sergei Magnitsky while he was investigating official corruption.

READ MORE
Sergei Skripal is a ‘traitor’, says Russian spy Anna Chapman
Home Office won’t ‘confirm or deny’ if Skripal still working for MI6
CCTV shows Russian spy and daughter moments before they were found
Sergei Skripal may have been targeted over ‘freelance’ spying
Who may have ordered the poisoning of Sergei Skripal and why?

Labour claimed the Government halted an expected three-hour committee last month after just 25 minutes, fearing a vote on amending sanctions legislation would be lost.

Conservative MPs seeking to insert “Magnitsky amendments” into the Sanctions and Anti-Money Laundering Bill said ministers were resisting a key element necessary to ensure the law was actually used.

In Salisbury, the authorities were forced to defend issuing the new guidance to residents, one week after Mr Skripal, 66, and his daughter, Yulia, 33, were found on a bench in the city.

Both remain in Salisbury District Hospital in a critical, but stable condition, as efforts continue to establish beyond reasonable doubt who carried out the devastating nerve agent attack.

Dr Jenny Harries, joint director of Public Health England, told a press conference: “This is about a very, very small risk of repetitive contact with traces of contamination that people may have taken out.

“The advice we’re giving today about washing clothes – very simple things ... that will remove that risk as we go forward.”

Up to 500 people in either The Mill pub or the Zizzi restaurant, between Sunday lunchtime and Monday night, were also urged to double-bag clothing earmarked for dry cleaning and wipe personal effects such as mobile phones, purses and wallets with baby wipes.

Wiltshire Police also told residents “not to be alarmed” after the military removed a number of vehicles and objects from in and around Salisbury.

Troops, including Royal Marines, were supported by firefighters, police and medics in the now-familiar hazmat suits and gas masks, in the biggest military operation yet.

A military forklift truck was used to lift cars onto the back of low-loader trucks, where they were covered before the military removed them from the scene.

Monday’s meeting of the NSC will be the first to discuss the poisonings in Salisbury, bringing together senior cabinet ministers with the heads of MI5, MI6 and GCHQ

[sanjaykumar]

That was a great post Phillip. But why do the English carry on so about this overweight, overwrought, whiskey sodden man? It’s not like he won them the war. That would be Stalin of course. And it’s not like the English don’t have heroes to worship.

[Akshay Kapoor]

When will there be a film on Winston Churchill, the barbaric monster with the blood of millions on his hands?
Imperialistic pop culture has enshrined Churchill only as a military great, a fun drunk, a loyal monarchist with a penchant for fine speech and a flair for loquacious prose. But the British PM lacerated the world with tragedies, profiting from plunders and mass murders, writes Shree Paradkar.

Yet, what did the actor Gary Oldman who portrayed Churchill in Darkest Hour say last Sunday when he received an Oscar for Best Actor? “I would just like to salute Sir Winston Churchill who has been marvellous company on what can be described as an incredible journey.”

Salute. Sir. Marvellous. Incredible.

Oldman might as well have danced on 3 million dead bodies, many of whom were too weak to cremate or bury their loved ones.

Such tributes for a heinous white supremacist who once declared that “Aryan tribes were bound to triumph.”

Words as hollow as the tunnel-visioned ideals on which people fashion this man, but they can’t stem the drip, drip of blood from his hands.

^^^^^^^^^^^^
Worth reading, IMO.

+108

[sanjaykumar]

Flair for prose?

He was as incontinent with his words as so evidently with his appetites.

(How’s that for epigrammatic wit, Oscar?).

[Lisa]

Hess landed in the wrong place and was captured,Churchill then allegedly sabotaged the amphib aircraft taking Hess back to Germany Sweden and all aboard died in the crash in Scotland.A double stood in for Hess throughout and after the war,and even at Nuremberg,Goering and other Nazis were sure that he was a fake.

What a strange thing to say. HIs wife believed that he was her husband and the son believed it was his father and Goering was to be the decider! What a strange thing to say. NONE of his family EVER doubted who he was. Provide a link if this is not a fact.

[Avtar Singh]

Maybe it was the lack of appeasement and coming to terms with Hitler/Nazis after all they could have shared the empire together?

Sure Russians did the heavy lifting.

But Britain could have joined the axis powers and things would have been very different. Western europe could have stayed Nazi; Britain/Germany/Japan could have shared the empire.

USA could have been persuaded to stay out they were doing ok singing and dancing.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53XaldRYk5M


Why did the British choose to fight? Did Churchill play any part in it?
Was it worth it? War debt has only just been repaid and Empire has long gone.

As an aside, Farage was complaining that the following news is buried deep in the BBC website;

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/5777071/t ... s-victims/


No doubt if the BBC scumbags could have labelled it “CASTE” Hindu they would have been blaring it loud and clear.

[Avtar Singh]

LEBENSRAUM

further to what I have written above, the mind boggles at the possibilities

If one considers the antics of these people; germans V many groups, japanese rape of nanking, slavery of black people and american attitudes to original americans and black people even today, belgians in the congo etc, etc....

can you imagine a nazi western europe combined with the japanese, the british and with americans just watching

I posit that Indians and Africans would have been wiped off the face of the earth on an industrial scale.

The non melanated would have the sub-continent and african continent to themselves.

How would have Indians and Africans resisted such an onslaught?

All cheered on by the americans/vatican. There might even have been a Papal Bull giving authority to boot, see the history of S.America

LEBENSRAUM

[Ravi Karumanchiri]

^^^^^^^
These are chilling thoughts/prospects; but they are only conceivable outside of any understanding of class warfare in play in Europe at the time.

Why did Britain go one way, while the Axis went the other?

At it's root, it's about monarchists versus statists. The "ruling class" in GB was (and is) monarchist, while the Nazis rose from the gutters of a defeated Germany -- always with a more collectivist mentality.

For GB to reconcile with the Nazis would have been unthinkable on these terms alone. The fact that Churchill was an obdurate @ssh0le is probably not among his distinguishing features.

As for what might have befell India in such a world scenario; we can never know. The "extermination" scenarios for all black and brown people is improbable, IMO, because people have always been viewed as a potential commodity. (Enslavement of some description, would have been much preferred, no doubt.) The Jews and Gypsies, Communists, Intellectuals, etc., they were hated and so were exterminated by the Nazis. Was there hatred for Indians and Africans in Nazi Germany? I'm not saying the nearest brown or black person was going to be invited to tea with Hitler; it's just that I don't think "extermination" would have been the default conclusion.

Let us not invent reasons for Churhill to be a necessary evil.

Some of what he did was necessary. Some of it was evil.

One account does not balance the other. Churchill was no saint, and not worth the statues erected in his likeness. He is literally, a false idol -- just like the Oscar.


NB: What cooperation existed between the European Axis and Japan, was conducted solely on the basis of "My enemy's enemy, is my friend."

[Singha]

the relatively hot climate of india and africa acted as a natural deterrent for permanent large scale european lebensraum plans. only temperate uplands of south africa saw a permanent occupation. those seeking land went off to argentina, parts of brazil, uruguay, north america, temperate part of australia and new zealand.

at the peak only around 200,000 english were here, and the civil servants enjoyed the highest wages and perks in the empire (tharoor's book) along with a cushy pension once they retired back to england . none/few retired in india and their kids were always sent to boarding schools back in england or in hill stations here and prepared for a career back in england.

there are way more people in purani delhi or fort area of mumbai than total number of englishmen in india at any time.

hot muggy chokepoints like HK, Singapore, Aden, hormuz, suez, panama were occupied for strategic reasons and trade, not as settlement enmasse.

[chetak]

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/glo ... 5d97c19544

some excertps
"..........
...
But the principal victims of Winston Churchill were the Indians — “a beastly people with a beastly religion,” as he charmingly called them. He wanted to use chemical weapons in India but was shot down by his cabinet colleagues, whom he criticized for their “squeamishness,” declaring that “the objections of the India Office to the use of gas against natives are unreasonable.”

Churchill’s beatification as an apostle of freedom seems all the more preposterous given his 1941 declaration that the Atlantic Charter’s principles would not apply to India and the colored colonies. He refused to see people of color as entitled to the same rights as himself. “Gandhi-ism and all it stands for,” he declared, “will, sooner or later, have to be grappled with and finally crushed.”


In such matters, Churchill was the most reactionary of Englishmen, with views so extreme they cannot be excused as being reflective of their times. Even his own secretary of state for India, Leopold Amery, confessed that he could see very little difference between Churchill’s attitude and Adolf Hitler’s.

Thanks to Churchill, some 4 million Bengalis starved to death in a 1943 famine. Churchill ordered the diversion of food from starving Indian civilians to well-supplied British soldiers and even to top up European stockpiles in Greece and elsewhere. When reminded of the suffering of his Indian victims, his response was that the famine was their own fault, he said, for “breeding like rabbits.”

Madhusree Mukerjee’s searing account of Churchill’s role in the Bengal famine, Churchill’s Secret War,” “documents that while Indians starved, prices for foodgrains were inflated by British purchases and India’s own surplus grains were exported, while Australian ships laden with wheat were not allowed to unload their cargo at Calcutta (where the bodies of those who had died of starvation littered the streets). Instead, Churchill ordered that grain be shipped to storage depots in the Mediterranean and the Balkans to increase the buffer stocks for a possible future invasion of Greece and Yugoslavia. European warehouses filled up as Bengalis died.


This week’s Oscar rewards yet another hagiography of this odious man. To the Iraqis whom Churchill advocated gassing, the Greek protesters on the streets of Athens who were mowed down on Churchill’s orders in 1944, sundry Pashtuns and Irish, as well as to Indians like myself, it will always be a mystery why a few bombastic speeches have been enough to wash the bloodstains off Churchill’s racist hands.

Many of us will remember Churchill as a war criminal and an enemy of decency and humanity, a blinkered imperialist untroubled by the oppression of non-white peoples. Ultimately, his great failure — his long darkest hour — was his constant effort to deny us freedom."

churchill did what he did but there is another theory that he stripped bengal of food supplies to prevent a japanese invasion through that very route, thereby forcing them to take the more difficult route via the Indian northeast where they faced defeat.

Be that as it may, even if it were true, churchill would never have used this tactic in a white country, whatever the cost.

This does not in any way justify churchills extreme hatred towards the Indians.

How I wish that this alcohol sodden lump of shit were alive today to see his "great" britan overrun by sharia pasand muslims, reduced to a very pale shadow of it's former self, stripped of all it's economic influence and it's political heft in world affairs literally begging that very same India for "trade" deals.

Even his loquacious prose would have sputtered and dried up as he futilely grappled with and came to terms with ukstan and london with it's paki mayor.

schadenfreude, anyone?? Trust the germans to have the right word for all occasions.

A third world white country in a sea of second rate european "powers"

[Singha]

>> he stripped bengal of food supplies to prevent a japanese invasion through that very route,

thats not a correct proposal. the japanese had no much shipping, supplies or manpower to invade bengal, its large military bases and easy access by railways to more forces stretching back to indian army postings in persia. japanese subs were not able to mount any campaign around indian sea routes.

a massive american transport fleet was already operating in eastern india to supply china. japan AF was unable to raid these places or make a dent on them.

the japanese had outrun their logistical abilities in myanmar and made a token attempt with some 2 light divisions and no heavy gear except pack howitzers onto manipur. there were no x-border roads just trails. predictably they were defeated and beaten off.

while the germans could draw upon ukrainians, bulgarians, romanians, italians for additional manpower, the japanese had no allies and no such foreign units.

[disha]

^^ The japanese were tormented heavily in Burma and their campaign ran into the Indian wall in Nagaland. It was the brits who put a tail between their legs and abandoned S'gpore to Japanese mercies.

Bengal was very very very far off. Brishit were stripping off Bengal of its wealth and in WWII they got a chance to strip it off its food as well. They wanted famine. One cannot revolt on empty stomach.

[chetak]

>> he stripped bengal of food supplies to prevent a japanese invasion through that very route,

thats not a correct proposal. the japanese had no much shipping, supplies or manpower to invade bengal, its large military bases and easy access by railways to more forces stretching back to indian army postings in persia. japanese subs were not able to mount any campaign around indian sea routes.

a massive american transport fleet was already operating in eastern india to supply china. japan AF was unable to raid these places or make a dent on them.

the japanese had outrun their logistical abilities in myanmar and made a token attempt with some 2 light divisions and no heavy gear except pack howitzers onto manipur. there were no x-border roads just trails. predictably they were defeated and beaten off.

while the germans could draw upon ukrainians, bulgarians, romanians, italians for additional manpower, the japanese had no allies and no such foreign units.

It is not implied that the japs sought a sea route through bengal and were thus thwarted.

The direction of their thrust may have been changed because of the scorched earth type of policy of stripping bengal.

The brits were already quite adept at intercepting and reading very secret communications in europe including those originating directly from Hitler himself.

It is possible that they were doing it with the japs too.

[Philip]

The threat from the latter -day Mrs.T,Theresa not Thatcher,to pres.Putin,demanding he explain himself,about alleged Ru involvement of the poisoning of a pardoned Ru ex-spy living in the UK for over 7 years after being exchanged in a spy-swap,is astonishing,as no inquiry into the incident has even begun. There is scant evidence linking Russia with the same and to accuse Putin is the heights of injustice. In fact,exposes of the ex=spy in the UK reveal that he was not quietly retired,but was actively engaged by other entities,some Russian oligarchs,as well as Brit.. intel,and could've p*ssed off a number of individuals and other entities in the bargain.

Even Litvinenko's widow,said that it was stupid for Russia to repeat an act similar to the poisoning of her husband with polonium a few years ago.
IN fact the entire epiisode stinks of the dirty tricks dept. of British intel.coming just before the football World Cup in Russia,an attempt to discredit Russia and sabotage the event.Strangely,leaked info last week said that Putin had ordered the shooting down of a passenger plane just before the Sochi Olympics as news received was that it had been hijacked.This was to portray him as a ruthless cold-blooded individual.However,in the fine print was the detail that just before he was to open the game,it was found out to be a hoax.Imagine the international chaos if the plane had been shot down,Russia and Putin portrayed as incompetent,trigger-happy barbarians,forgetting that that was the very same instructions given to USAF fighters in the aftermath of 9/11!

This entire episode looks like the wipeout of a tired old spy who served his purpose and would be sacrificed for the great lie,that "who dunnit? Putin did it!" May's ridiculous challenge to Putin must be sending the Kremlin into fits of laughter.Expect expulsions,sanctions,etc.to follow.May is trying hard to sabotage the World Cup becos she knows that England stand a "snowball's existence in hell" of winning the cup! So if England stay out of the cup,no one will grieve their absence,expect those countries who ahd hoped to thrash them severely!

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/20 ... salisbury/

Theresa May's ultimatum to Putin: Explain yourself in next 24 hours or face retaliation.

Gordon Rayner, political editor
12 MARCH 2018 • 8:01PM
Theresa May has given Vladimir Putin until midnight on Tuesday to explain the use of a Russian-made nerve agent in the Salisbury attack or face retaliation for “a brazen attempt to murder innocent civilians on our soil”.

The Prime Minister told MPs that the Government "has concluded it is highly likely that Russia was responsible" for the attempted murder of the former spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia last weekend.

And she revealed that an illegal “weapons-grade” nerve agent known as Novichok was used in what she described as “an indiscriminate and reckless act against the United Kingdom”.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... heresa-may

Salisbury spy poisoning: May issues ultimatum to Moscow
Prime minister says origin of nerve agent and past record of assassinations make Russian involvement highly likely
Anushka Asthana, Andrew Roth, Luke Harding and Ewen MacAskill

Tue 13 Mar 2018
Theresa May: highly likely Russia is behind Salisbury spy attack – video
Theresa May has given Vladimir Putin’s administration until midnight on Tuesday to explain how a former spy was poisoned in Salisbury, otherwise she will conclude it was an “unlawful use of force” by the Russian state against the UK.

After chairing a meeting of the national security council, the prime minister told MPs that it was “highly likely” that Russia was responsible for the attack on and his daughter, Yulia. She warned that Britain would not tolerate such a “brazen attempt to murder innocent civilians on our soil”.

In a statement to the House of Commons that triggered an angry response from Moscow, the prime minister said the evidence had shown that Skripal had been targeted by a “military-grade nerve agent of a type developed by Russia”. Describing the incident as an “indiscriminate and reckless act”, she said that the foreign secretary, Boris Johnson, had summoned the Russian ambassador to Whitehall and demanded an explanation by the end of Tuesday.

Russian officials immediately hit back, with Maria Zakharova, the spokeswoman for the Russian foreign minister, calling the remarks “a provocation” and describing the event as a “circus show in the British parliament”.

Andrei Lugovoi, a Russian member of parliament who stands accused of the 2006 murder of the former Russian agent, Alexander Litvinenko, said May’s decision to point the finger at Moscow so quickly was “at a minimum irresponsible”.

Quick guide
What is Novichok?

Ministers on the national security council were told that the nerve agent used was from a family of substances known as Novichok. “Based on the positive identification of this chemical agent by world-leading experts at Porton Down, our knowledge that Russia has previously produced this agent and would still be capable of doing so, Russia’s record of conducting state-sponsored assassinations, and our assessment that Russia views some defectors as legitimate targets for assassinations, the government has concluded that it is highly likely that Russia was responsible for the act against Sergei and Yulia Skripal,” she said.

The prime minister said that left just two plausible explanations “Either this was a direct act by the Russian state against our country, or the Russian government lost control of this potentially catastrophically damaging nerve agent and allowed it to get into the hands of others.”

May made clear that she believed there was already “a backdrop of a well-established pattern of Russian state aggression” – listing the illegal annexation of Crimea, violating European airspace and a “sustained campaign of cyber-espionage and disruption”, including “meddling in elections, and hacking the Danish ministry of defence and the Bundestag, among many others”. She also spoke of the extrajudicial killing of terrorists and dissidents outside Russia and the murder of Litvinenko.

The home secretary, Amber Rudd, will chair a meeting of the government’s Cobra emergency committee in Whitehall at 11.30am on Tuesday to discuss the latest developments in the investigation.

May said the government would consider Russia’s response on Wednesday. “Should there be no credible response, we will conclude that this action amounts to an unlawful use of force by the Russian state against the United Kingdom,” she said, promising to return to the house with a full range of retaliatory measures.

“This attempted murder, using a weapons-grade nerve agent in a British town, was not just a crime against the Skripals. It was an indiscriminate and reckless act against the United Kingdom, putting the lives of innocent civilians at risk. And we will not tolerate such a brazen attempt to murder innocent civilians on our soil.”

The tough statement means that a major diplomatic row is looming between Moscow and London, with expulsions on both sides highly likely. Russia’s hardline ambassador to the UK, Alexander Yakovenko, may well be sent home.

The Labour leader, Jeremy Corbyn, responded by saying the whole house condemned the “deeply alarming attack” and that a full account was needed from Russian authorities.

However, he warned against a full breakdown of communications with Moscow. “We need to continue seeking a robust dialogue with Russia on all the issues currently dividing our countries, rather than simply cutting off contact and letting the tensions and divisions get worse and potentially even more dangerous,” he said.

Corbyn then began a political attack on the Conservatives, after reports that the party had accepted donations of more than £820,000 from Russian oligarchs since May took over the leadership. He asked why the government had not accepted a Labour-led amendment to the sanctions and anti-money laundering bill that would pave the way for so-called Magnitsky powers to punish human rights abuses with asset freezes and visa bans.

Andrei Lugovoi said May’s decision to point the finger at Moscow was ‘at a minimum irresponsible’.
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Andrei Lugovoi said May’s decision to point the finger at Moscow was ‘at a minimum irresponsible’. Photograph: Misha Japaridze/AP
May responded that her government’s simple approach to Moscow was: “Engage but beware.” Referring to her previous comments on on Russian interference in elections, she said: “There can be no question of business as usual with Russia.”

On the Magnitsky powers, she insisted that the UK was already able to take tough action against individuals, but did promise to try to reach agreement over the amendment.

In 2007, Gordon Brown kicked out four Russian diplomats in protest at Vladimir Putin’s refusal to extradite Lugovoi and Dmitry Kovtun, the two assassins who put polonium into Alexander Litvinenko’s tea. The Russian foreign ministry expelled four British diplomats in response.

On this occasion, Putin is likely to react badly to May’s ultimatum. The UK’s ambassador to Moscow, Laurie Bristow – the deputy ambassador at the time of Litvinenko’s murder – is vulnerable.

Additionally, the Kremlin may take action against the BBC. When relations plummeted over Litvinenko, Moscow closed the St Petersburg office of the British Council and accused its director, Stephen Kinnock – now a Labour MP – of drink-driving.

The use of Novichok – a deadly nerve agent developed in the 1970s and 1980s by the Soviet Union – will be seen as a brutal calling card. It was inevitable that the poison would be discovered, with a trail leading straight back to Moscow.

Salisbury nerve agent attack: expert criticises lack of information

The attack came two weeks before Russia’s presidential election on Sunday. The calculation may be that the Skripal case galvanises Putin’s conservative base and boosts votes.

The reaction of backbench MPs to May’s statement was largely supportive on all sides of the house. The Tory chair of the foreign affairs select committee, Tom Tugendhat, said the Salisbury attack was “if not an act of war … certainly a warlike act by the Russian federation”.

Labour’s Yvette Cooper, who chairs the home affairs committee, said it was hard to see any alternative to the prime minister’s “very grave conclusion”, but asked if any action had been taken to review 14 other cases that she had raised.

A number of backbench MPs criticised Corbyn for failing to speak out more strongly in the face of what they described as a national security threat. Iain Duncan Smith, the former Tory leader, said the prime minister had risen to the occasion, but that colleagues would be disappointed by the Labour leader’s partisan attack. His Conservative colleague, Johnny Mercer, described the opposition response as a “shameful moment”. Others argued that the time for dialogue with Moscow had run out.

In a barbed attack on Corbyn, the Labour MP John Woodcock – a longtime critic of his party leader – welcomed the resilience of May and said the UK would face a national security threat if led by “anyone who did not understand the gravity of the threat which Russia poses”.

The Ministry of Defence (MoD) is planning to accelerate and expand its cyber-offensive capability over the next five years in response to the present crisis with Russia, according to Whitehall sources.

The aim is to increase the UK’s ability to strike back against selected targets in Russia and other states regarded as hostile, such as China, North Korea and Iran.

The MoD is also, in the wake of Salisbury, planning to spend more on chemical, biological, radiological and nuclear (CBRN) defence. The move is an acknowledgement that it has paid inadequate attention to the increased danger.

May won strong support for her position from international allies. The US secretary of state, Rex Tillerson, said whoever had ordered the attack must face serious consequences.

He said: “We have full confidence in the UK’s investigation and its assessment that Russia was likely responsible for the nerve agent attack that took place in Salisbury last week. There is never a justification for this type of attack – the attempted murder of a private citizen on the soil of a sovereign nation – and we are outraged that Russia appears to have again engaged in such behaviour.

“We agree that those responsible – both those who committed the crime and those who ordered it – must face appropriately serious consequences.”

Nato’s secretary general, Jens Stoltenberg, said: “The United Kingdom has concluded that Sergei Skripal and his daughter were poisoned with a military-grade nerve agent of a type developed by Russia. And prime minister Theresa May stated today that it is highly likely that Russia was responsible for the act. The use of any nerve agent is horrendous and completely unacceptable. The UK is a highly valued ally, and this incident is of great concern to Nato. Nato is in touch with the UK authorities on this issue.”

[Philip]

Theresa May and her bumbling buffoon of a Foreign Secretary,BoJo,appear quite strikingly in this episode like Don Quixote ,sorry,Dona Quixote and her Sancho Panza,tilting at Russian windmills! Cervantes' depiction of the insane duo and their antics comes best in explaining Britain's century old angst and vendetta against Russia.

The British estabishment has never forgiven Russia for its Great October Revolution,which happened just a century ago. The attempts by British Intel using the "Ace of spies",Sidney Reilly to overthrow the new Bolshevik govt. failed by a whisker.The execution by the revolutionaries of the Czar and his family,close relations of the British royalty tarred the "Bolshies",a word now legendary in the English vocabulary,forever.Eternal hell and damnation was to be Russia and the Sov.Union's fate henceforth.Right through the Cold War,both sides engaged in the most strenuous espionage activities,with the Brits coming off worst in the PR stakes with the activities of the "Cambridge 5 ",Kim Philby and co. being double agents,right under the noses of the Brit. establishment even inside "Buck House",through Sir Anthony Blunt,no less than a royal relation working for Russia!
Brit.intel looked more like a version of the keystone cops,rather than hard-boiled professionals. Thus James Bond and his fictitious activities had to to come to Britain's rescue and his on screen exploits took the place of real hard intel and espionage at which the Russians proved themselves to be past masters.But the fall of the Berlin Wall and end of the CW,with the collapse of the USSR saw the West victorious.Gorby was betrayed by NATO-which at speed moved as close to Russia's borders as was possible through regime change in Warsaw Pact nations,and we saw the last act fofsuch in the failed attempt to overthrow the UKR pro-Ru govt. leading to civil war in the UKR.This led to the enormously strategic Crimea returning to Russia,a huge prize for Putin.Attempts were made just before the Sochi Winter Olympics to rattle Russia,with the UKR crisis perfectly timed to keep it off balance.

What has enraged the Brits over the past 17 years of Putin's rule,is that he has emerged victorious in every military crisis he has faced.He kicked the backside of the Georgian upstart,Shakashvilli,who had to flee to the UKR and from there has now fled to Poland! He sorted out the rebellious Chechens,sent strong support to Serbia and the Slavic peoples of the former Yugoslavia,destroyed by the West,Stopped the whole of the UKR from going to the West/EU,regained the Crimea in the bargain and in the Middle east,crushed ISIS and supported Assad to the hilt,where the Syrian-Ru-Iranian combo has virtually won the war in Syria,a devastating blow for Western and especially British interests.Putin revealing Russia's new "invulnerable" strategic weapons has also come a a rude shock for the West.

Now,when the World Cup is just a few months away,and more importantly for Russia,the presidential elections,where a popular Putin is certain to win hands down with a massive majority,denigrating Putin,accusing him of murder most foul,etc.,etc.,is being made by the British establishment to waterdown his inevitable victory and create as much chaos as possible during the World Cup. A similar attempt was made as at Sochi earlier ."Unfortunately,Little Britain",devoid of an empire,yet to find a role,exiting Europe and finding little sympathy for it worldwide,is using such devious means to gain cheap popularity and reinvent itself as a bulwark against Russian criminality and retain its UNSC seat in a future reorganisation of that bankrupt organisation which has lost total credibility.In this, it is perfectly in tune with the deep State in the US,and US intel agencies,working with Brit. intel in tandem,to besmirch Russia and thereby justify huge military spending keeping the Western Mil. Industrial Complex,cheering all the way to the bank.

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... -poisoning

Spy scandal has sent UK-Russia relations tumbling. What next?
Many options will be on table should Kremlin involvement be confirmed. None will be simple
Patrick Wintour Diplomatic editor

Mon 12 Mar 2018 resa May with Vladimir Putin in 2016. A strong response will be expected from the prime minister if Russia fails to prove its innocence.

Theresa May’s assertion that it is highly likely the Russian state has committed an act of aggression by poisoning the double agent Sergei Skripal plunges Anglo-Russian relations into their worst state since the cruise missile crisis in the 1980s.

The prime minister knows that she will have to go further than her response as home secretary to the 2006 murder of Alexander Litvinenko – some assets frozen, an end to intelligence cooperation and the expulsion of a number of Russian diplomats.

Although the UK is giving Russia 24 hours to prove the murder came about due to rogue operators gaining control of military grade nerve agent, no one expects the Russian ambassador, Alexander Yakovenko, will even try to convince the foreign secretary, Boris Johnson, that the Russian state simply lost control of the poison.

0:49
Theresa May: highly likely Russia is behind Salisbury spy attack – video
Trust between the UK and Russia has been in short supply for years, and it is more likely Yakovenko will say Russia is the victim of media-induced spy fever.

It will leave May with no option but to confirm that the Russian state committed an unlawful use of force against the UK. That would place the onus on the Foreign Office not just to compile an effective unilateral response, but also to gather European and American support for a multilateral measures.

Quick guide
Timeline: the poisoning of Sergei and Yulia Skripal

The context of Brexit, and Donald Trump’s ambivalence towards Putin, sets a diplomatic challenge for the Foreign Office. The UK has long been the anti-Russian outrider in Europe, and Johnson’s meeting with Russian foreign minister, Sergei Lavrov, in Moscow in December achieved little.

European Union countries come to the Russian issue with their own agendas and commercial interests. The EU foreign affairs chief, Federica Mogherini, has insisted the bloc was not suffering from sanctions fatigue over Ukraine, pointing to the imminent fourth anniversary of the annexation of Crimea. The EU competitiveness council on Monday renewed the existing sanctions regime.

But Angela Merkel, the reinstalled German chancellor, said she hoped the expected re-election of Vladimir Putin this weekend might provide a moment to restart the Minsk peace process. She favours further engagement.

The French president, Emmanuel Macron, on Monday fended off rare criticism of his Syrian policy from his predecessor François Hollande by defending his policy of engagement with Russia, arguing he did not think the years of complete absence of dialogue had led to any progress for France.
Equally the new Italian government, once it is formed, is likely to be influenced by the pro-Russian populist right.

Russian state TV accuses UK of plotting spy attack

Many experts say EU sanctions have probably reduced growth in Russia by just 1% last year. In a recent report, the Estonian intelligence agency claimed Putin “uses western sanctions to shield himself from criticism of a failed economic policy, and [this] helps to some degree to paper over the fundamental weaknesses in the economy”.

2:03
Who is the Salisbury spy Sergei Skripal? – video explainer

So the poisoning of a Russian double agent in a British cathedral city makes fascinating reading for European nations, but many Western politicians will be guided by bigger strategic choices including relations over Syria, Iran, Ukraine and commerce. Trump has also been reluctant to sanction Putin over alleged interference in the 2016 US election, with most of the running being made by Congress.

The likely UK unilateral package will start with the expulsion of some diplomats. Throwing out the ambassador would be a major step, and leave the UK bereft of a smart high-level conduit to Moscow. Retaliation, including the expulsion of the UK’s ambassador in Moscow, might follow.

The culture secretary, Matt Hancock, could in theory direct the broadcasting regulator Ofcom to investigate whether Russian media outlets such as RT are fit to hold a broadcasting licence. But state directed withdrawal of media licences might put the UK in the same frame as repressive regimes such as Turkey. Alternatively, public figures including shadow cabinet members, or even football managers such as Jose Mourinho, could be formally advised to pull out of the lucrative contracts they have signed to appear on RT.

Timeline
Poisoned umbrellas and polonium: Russian-linked UK deaths

It is also highly likely that sports officials, as opposed to players, will be directed not to attend the World Cup this summer.

More seriously, amendments to the sanctions and anti-money laundering bill will be introduced by ministers to allow stronger sanctions against human rights abusers, such as the persecutors of Sergei Magnitsky, the Russian tax accountant who died in jail in Russia after revealing details of massive state-sponsored fraud.

The Foreign Office says in practice it already has the full confiscatory powers it needs, but under pressure from Tory backbenchers, such as Richard Benyon and the Europe minister, Sir Alan Duncan, have said ministers will be minded to support a Magnitsky clause once the bill reaches report stage.

A more pertinent option would be to impose asset freezes on Russian oligarchs linked to the Kremlin especially if they are unable to explain the sources of London property wealth. But British law prides itself on due process, and arbitrary asset grabs in the manner of a Gulf crown prince might not look good.

Militarily, the British army already has a rotational presence in Estonia, but Russia would not welcome Nato placing more troops closer to Belarus.

Nato can also step up the strategic pressure on Moscow by speeding up Ukraine’s provisional admission into the alliance through agreeing a membership action plan. Similar encouragement to anti-Russian political forces can be offered in the Balkans, a key area of conflict with Russia. The UK is chairing a summit on the west Balkans this summer, and could use this as a vehicle to encourage parties fighting Moscow’s influence.

There are two other measures on the extremities of the spectrum of options available to Downing Street. The UK could designate Russia as a state sponsor of terror. In the US, designation results in a variety of unilateral sanctions, including a ban on arms-related exports and sales, prohibitions on economic assistance and visa bans.

The UK could also recommend Russian banks are cut off from Swift, the system behind international financial transactions. Some Russian banks linked to Iran have already been cut off from system, for instance. This might weaken Russia’s ability to trade internationally, but Russian banks have switched to a Russian payment system called SPFS, set up with larger non-G7 countries.

None of the options are simple, and in the end they will only confirm Putin in his apparent determination to define Russia by its opposition to the west, and especially Britain.

[Philip]

https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/201 ... spy-attack

quote]Russian state TV accuses UK of plotting spy attack
Anchor claims attack was meant to fuel ‘Russophobia’ and as a pretext for World Cup boycott

Andrew Roth in Moscow

Mon 12 Mar 2018
News anchor Dmitry Kiselyov said the poisoning of Sergei Skripal and his daughter would benefit the British authorities. Photograph: Mikhail Klimentyev/AFP/Getty Images
A leading Russian state news anchor has suggested Britain masterminded the poisoning of the former Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter, Yulia, in Salisbury.

In a nationwide broadcast watched by millions, Dmitry Kiselyov, the anchor for the flagship Russia 24 news broadcast, Vesti Nedeli, said Skripal could have been sacrificed as a pretext for an international boycott of the 2018 World Cup.

“Why not poison him?” said Kiselyov. “Is he so valuable? And do it with his daughter to turn it into a real tear-jerker for the public.”

Russian state media broadcasts do not always perfectly reflect the opinions of the Kremlin. However, television station heads work in close collaboration with the government.
Salisbury spy attack: May likely to blame Russia, Tory MP says

The remarks came before a meeting of the UK’s national security council on Monday morning to discuss the response to events in Salisbury, amid speculation that Theresa May is facing pressure from some ministers to take a tough line if it is decided that Russia was behind the 4 March nerve agent attack in Salisbury that has left Skripal, 66, and his daughter, 33, in critical condition.

Before Monday’s meeting, Tom Tugendhat, who chairs the Commons foreign affairs committee, told the BBC that the poisoning looked “like it was state-sponsored attempted murder”.

Kiselyov is sometimes referred to as “Putin’s chief propagandist” and been rewarded for his coverage with a primetime news broadcast and the leadership of Russia’s RIA Novosti news agency.

He is best known for telling viewers in March 2014 that Russia was the only country in the world that could turn the US into “radioactive ash”. Days later he was hit with EU sanctions tied to Russia’s annexation of Crimea.

In the broadcast on Sunday night, he said the poisoning of Skripal and his daughter was advantageous to the British, and would “stimulate their Russophobia”.

The poisoning “creates a lot of possibilities, like an international boycott of the World Cup”, being held in Russia this June, Kiselyov said. “It’s the perfect special operation.”

On Monday the Kremlin’s spokesman, Dmitry Peskov, again denied Russia had any ties to the Skripal poisoning. It “happened on British territory, and in no way is a question for the Russian federation, or its leadership”, he said.

Despite official denials, Russian state television broadcasters have issued not-so-veiled threats about the dangers of settling in England, where a number of high-profile Moscow critics have died in recent years under suspicious circumstances.

“Whatever the reasons, whether you’re a professional traitor to the motherland or you just hate your country in your spare time, I repeat, no matter, don’t move to England,” the presenter Kirill Kleymenov said during a news programme on Channel One last week.

“Something is not right there. Maybe it’s the climate. But in recent years there have been too many strange incidents with a grave outcome,” he said.

Kiselyov on Sunday called England a “deadly place”. In the broadcast, a reporter suggested that the poison used in the attack on Skripal could have been produced at the British military facility Porton Down, near Salisbury.

“They immediately tried to pin it on Russia,” Kiselyov said. “But if you think about it closely, the only people who stand to gain from the poisoning of the former GRU colonel are the British. Just to stimulate their Russophobia.”

In a documentary film about Putin advertised during Kiselyov’s programme, an interviewer asked if there is anything the Russian president can’t forgive. “Betrayal,” he replied.[/quote

PS:The unanswered Q by Brit commentators,is if Putin was so evil,like Stalin for argument's sake,never forgiving "betrayal",why didn't the Russians execute Skripal when he was caught spying for Britain? Worlwdide the price for treason is death and Skripal could've easily been executed for his deeds which he confessed to. He was in fact later "pardoned" and exchanged for Russian spies in a swap. 7 years later was he worth bumping off even if he had returned to his old trade ,spycraft,for western intel and their Ru. oligarch entities,in such a controversial manner? The easiest thing would've been to stage a road accident,or accident at home,instead of this theatrical attempt meant to make the headlines! That in itself smacks of the attempt being entirely "feku".

[Philip]

Even before the first kick-off,Brits from the establishment are wanting England to boycott the World Cup! That would be a disaster and draw incredible anger from English football fans who care a damn about politics of the Quixotic kind being displayed by Dona Theresa and her prize Sancho Panza BoJo.

Anything to admit, Vlad? Putin SMIRKS when asked if Russia is responsible for the poisoning of spy Sergei Skripal as his Foreign Minister says Moscow is 'NOT to blame' for the attack

Sergei Skripal and his daughter remain critical after Salisbury nerve agent attack
Theresa May has said it was 'highly likely' Russia was involved in the poisoning
A smirking Vladimir Putin was asked whether Russia was behind the attack
The Russian President told Britain to clarify its position before he will comment
His Foreign Minister says Russia is not to blame and summoned UK ambassador
By Julian Robinson and Will Stewart In Moscow for MailOnline

PUBLISHED: 10:37 GMT, 13 March 2018 |
This is the moment Vladimir Putin smirked after being asked whether Russia was responsible for the poisoning of spy Sergei Skripal.
When asked on camera if Moscow was to blame, the Russian President smiled a little before side-stepping the question.

He then told Britain to 'get to the bottom of things there first' when asked about the nerve agent attack in Salisbury which left the former double agent and daughter Yulia in a critical condition.

Theresa May said last night it was 'highly likely' Russia was involved in the 'reckless and despicable' poisoning of the 66-year-old and his 33-year-old daughter.

But Putin's Foreign Minister Sergey Lavrov this morning insisted Russia 'is not to blame' and said he had asked for samples of the nerve agent - a request he claimed had been 'denied'.

Meanwhile, the Kremlin's Foreign Ministry has summoned British Ambassador Laurie Bristow amid a deepening war of words between the two countries. France, Germany and US Secretary of State Rex Tillerson have all given their backing to the UK.

Footage captured the moment Vladimir Putin smirked after being asked whether Russia was responsible for the poisoning of spy Sergei Skripal +18

Sergei Skripal (pictured) and his daughter Yulia have been in a critical condition since they were found unconscious on a bench outside a shopping centre in Salisbury on March 4 +18

Branding the attack a 'reckless and despicable act' last night, Mrs May said the substance used was a 'military grade' nerve agent Russia has produced and demanded answers from the Kremlin by midnight tonight

Police have put a forensics tent over the parking meter outside Salisbury's Sainsbury's store amid fears it was used by Sergei Skripal +18
Locals have said chemical weapons experts are removing a potentially contaminated vehicle from a local business

Before the Prime Minister's remarks yesterday, Putin was asked by BBC reporter Steve Rosenberg whether Russia was responsible for the assassination attempt.

A smiling Putin replied: 'Listen, we are dealing with agriculture here and as you can see our aim it to create living conditions for people - and you are talking about some tragedies. Get to the bottom of things there first, then we'll discuss this.'

Putin's brief comment came after security sources said Skripal was poisoned by a rare nerve agent that only a few laboratories in the world could have produced - one of which, the source said, was the Yasenevo lab, run by Russia's SVR spy service on the outskirts of Moscow.
Zizzi workers' uniforms 'were BURNED' before members of the...
It WAS Russia! Furious PM gives Putin 24 hour deadline over...
Poison trail extends as army and police go into village...

MPs call for Kremlin-funded Russia Today to be taken off air...
This morning, Lavrov said he had asked for access to samples of the nerve agent that poisoned Skripal and his daughter adding that Russia was 'not to blame'.

He warned that Russia will only co-operate with Britain on the investigation if it receives samples of the substance that is believed to have been used.

But Lavrov said that Moscow's requests to see samples of the nerve agent have been turned down, which he called a violation of the Chemical Weapons Convention, which outlaws the production of chemical weapons.

It comes after Putin's chief propagandist suggested Britain poisoned Skripal as part of a bid to 'to feed their Russophobia' and engineer a boycott of the World Cup.
It's like blaming Moscow over any death with a Kalashnikov': Russian media reacts to nerve agent storm
Blaming Russia for the nerve agent poisoning of Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia was like accusing Moscow over any death with a Kalashnikov gun, said Vladimir Putin's Channel One TV.

Presenter of 'Vremya' news Kirill Kleymyonov, showed a clip of Theresa May making her statement to parliament and followed it with a stinging comment.

'What does it mean that the chemical was made on Russian territory and therefore Russia is behind this attempted murder? Impeccable logic!
'England's been famous for it since Sherlock Holmes.

Blaming Russia for the nerve agent poisoning of Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia in Salisbury (pictured) was like accusing Moscow over any death with a Kalashnikov gun, said Vladimir Putin's Channel One TV

'So if anyone, God forbid, used a Kalashnikov in an attempted murder, there would even have been no need to waste time investigating - just summon the ambassador straight away and impose sanctions.'
The report then highlighted Foreign Ministry spokeswoman Maria Zakharova's comment describing May's statement as 'a circus show in the British parliament'.

Britain has turned into Russia's toughest foe in the West, the Moscow media said today commenting on Theresa May's midnight deadline.
Kommersant newspaper was one of the few newspapers to frontage the story.
The headline ran: 'And the poison followed him' with the strap: 'Theresa May named the substance which poisoned Sergey Skripal and where it was made.'

The newspaper told its readers: 'London will be ready to go to any extremes regardless to what degree Western allies will support it…'

The Skripal case 'is developing in an extremely negative way' and 'may turn London into the toughest opponent to Moscow in the West, a role the USA is playing for now.

Presenter of 'Vremya' news Kirill Kleymyonov, showed a clip of Theresa May (pictured) making her statement to parliament and followed it with a stinging comment

'The situation is developing in such a way that Britons will turn out to be the last in the West who will be ready to reconcile with Russia.'

Vedomosti business newspaper said Russo-British relations 'which have reached rock bottom …risk souring even more'.

Official Kremlin newspaper Rossiyskaya Gazeta warned: 'London has at once jumped on the incident with firm resolve to reap as many political dividends against Russia as possible.

'Long before the investigation is over, the incident has rapidly become high-profile at the behest of politicians and has outshone all other topics on the front pages of local newspaper

'London has already named who to blame…' - Russia.

Popular daily Moskovsky Komsomolets took up the allegation that MI5 or MI6 were to blame for the poisoning in an echo of charges made in the Alexander Litvinenko case.

'It is quite possible that the incident is an operation by the British special services or a favour to the British special services done by their friendly colleagues,' said pundit Alexei Mukhin.
'As for now, the developments are advantageous to Theresa May and the British special services, which lately have been very actively dealing with Russian oligarchs who reside at the UK territory, aiming to 'milk money' from them...
'I will not accuse anyone and will not say who in particular are doing this because I do not want to wake up with polonium in my pockets.
'But it is England alone, who benefits from such actions.
'For Russia, actions like this are absolutely disadvantageous…'
RBC reported factually: 'London gives 24 hours to eliminate toxicity.'

Police officers work at a supermarket near the bench where former Russian intelligence officer Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia were found poisoned

Meanwhile state-run Sputnik cited The Times in saying the UK could launch a cyber war on Russia.

RIA Novosti news agency reported secret services veteran Igor Morozov, now a senator, as saying : 'Russia has not only stopped producing nerve agents, including Novichok, but also completely destroyed all its stockpiles.

'It was done in accordance with international agreements under the supervision of international observers from the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons.

The last batch of chemical agents was destroyed in Russia in September 2017, while their production was stopped in the 1990s, he said.

Morozov admitted that any secret production of novichok would be 'dangerous but possible' and would require 'laboratory conditions, special equipment and specialists'.

Another parliamentarian, Vladimir Dzhabarov, insisted Russia has destroyed chemical weapons and 'has never deceived its partners' Interfax reported.

Putin crony Dmitry Kiselyov, a top presenter on Russian state television, today said 'only the British stand to benefit' from the incident - apparently suggesting the UK may have targeted the Skripals.

The 63-year-old, who hosts Vesti Nedeli (News of the Week) on the official state-owned channel Rossiya 1, spoke in front of an image of Big Ben with words translating as 'death trap' written next to it.

The Prominent Russian media personality is quoted as saying: 'Clearly, they instantly started to blame Russia but if one thinks it through, the only ones for whom former GRU colonel's poisoning is good for are the Brits. Simply to feed their Russophobia.

He claimed that 'as a source' Skripal 'was no longer interesting' but added that 'as a victim of poisoning' he was 'useful'.
'Why not poison him? There is no pity. Together with his daughter so that it's more heart-wrenching for the public.

Vladimir Putin's chief propagandist Dmitry Kiselyov (pictured) has has suggested Britain poisoned Sergei Skripal as part of a bid to 'to feed their Russophobia' and engineer a boycott of the World Cup

Putin crony Dmitry Kiselyov, a top presenter on Russian state television, today said 'only the British stand to benefit' from the incident - apparently suggesting the UK may have targeted the Skripals

'Then there are lots of opportunities, including organising an international boycott of the World Cup in Russia. An excellent special operation.
'Skripal as cheap raw material - and let Russia find the excuses.'
Theresa May dramatically pointed the finger at Vladimir Putin last night over the nerve gas attack.
The Prime Minister said the facts increasingly suggested Russia was behind the apparent 'hit' on Skripal.

What action could Britain take against Russia if the Kremlin is shown to be behind the poison spy plot?
Expel diplomats:

Britain could expel Russia's ambassador and other diplomats based at the embassy in Kensington Palace Gardens - round the corner from where Prince William and Kate live.
If MI5 have tabs on a Russian spy ring in the UK, Britain could take this poison plot as a reason to expel them.

Impose sanctions:

Britain already has an extensive range of sanctions against Russia as a result of the invasion of Crimea and eastern Ukraine, but we could extend them.

The UK could also impose sanctions on named individuals if they are linked to the murder attempt.

Britain could pass the 'Magnitsky List' mirroring US laws imposing travel bans on senior Kremlin officials responsible for the death of Russian accountant Sergei Magnitsky in a prison in 2009.

Britain could enact the Magnitsky amendment, imposed conditions on Putin's cronies. The act is named after Sergei Magnitsky, a lawyer who died in custody after exposing corruption

World Cup boycott
Official representation could be withdrawn from the World Cup in Russia if Kremlin links are proven.

Prime Minister Theresa May told MPs last week that the Government would “look at whether ministers and other dignitaries should attend” the tournament in that event.

The Duke of Cambridge has already said he has no plans to attend.
There have been calls for the England team to boycott the tournament but their withdrawal would probably have little impact.

A coordinated protest, involving the withdrawal of multiple countries, would be far more effective in damaging Vladimir Putin’s showcase international event. However, experts say the nerve agent poisoning is unlikely to create enough international momentum to trigger a wider boycott.

Statement of condemnation
Britain may call on the support its closest allies if there is evidence of a Russian murder attempt on UK soil.

A joint statement of international condemnation could be issued from leaders including French President Emmanuel Macron and Germany’s Angela Merkel, warning Russia that such actions will not be tolerated.

Branding the attack a 'reckless and despicable act', Mrs May said the substance used was a 'military grade' agent Moscow has produced.
Mrs May said the government would not accept such an attempt to 'murder innocent civilians on our soil'.
She will decide on a range of sanctions over the next 24 hours after urgent talks with Nato, the United Nations, EU and US.
The Prime Minister will also draw up a secret package of measures against Russia which will never be revealed.

This could include targeting the Kremlin's propaganda machine. Whitehall sources said yesterday they were accelerating their offensive cyber programme and could hit select targets for a specific effect.

It is understood this could see a specialist cyber unit deployed in the UK to attack Kremlin computer networks spewing Russian propaganda and trolling factories spreading fake news.

Together with Russia's previous actions and tactics, including the killing of Alexander Litvinenko, the UK authorities yesterday concluded it was 'highly likely' to be involved in the episode.

In a tough statement updating MPs after a meeting of the National Security Council, Mrs May raised the prospect of significant retaliation - making clear that the UK is already consulting Nato and other allies.

'It is now clear that Mr Skripal and his daughter were poisoned with military grade nerve agent of a type developed by Russia,' Mrs May said. 'This is part of a group of nerve agents known as novichok.'

Another option is for the Government to implement a British version of the US's Magnitsky Act, which lists Russians involved in corruption and human rights abuses, banning them from entering the country. There could be fresh sanctions against senior figures in the Putin regime, either with the EU or unilaterally.

General Sir Chris Deverell, commander of Joint Forces Command, has revealed how the UK has a specialist unit which is dedicated to 'offensive cyber' run jointly by the MoD and GCHQ.

So far it has worked on Islamic State but this could be expanded towards Russia.

In an interview with the Mail last week, he said the military could hit back at disinformation spread by Russian trolling factories. He said: 'There are two ways you could respond. One is putting your own messages out to compete with the messages that actors like that are sending. And the other is with a cyber-attack.

'Whether or not you could use cyber as a weapon would depend upon the specific circumstances and the law.' He said that there was a specific capability in which troops tackle mistruths spread by enemies.

Russia's ambassador was summoned to the Foreign Office at 3.45pm yesterday for a 'cool but firm' meeting with Boris Johnson. There was no handshake between the politicians as Mr Johnson outlined the 'outrage' felt by the British people.

She added: 'Based on the positive identification of this chemical agent by world leading experts at the laboratory at Port Down, our knowledge that Russia has previously produced this agent and would still be cap able of doing so, Russia's record of conducting state sponsored assassinations, and our assessment that Russia views defectors as a legitimate target for assassination the government has concluded that it is highly likely Russia was responsible for the act against Sergei and Yulia Skripal.'

Mrs May said Boris Johnson had summoned the Russian ambassador in London yesterday afternoon and informed him of the findings.
Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia (pictured in Zizzi in 2016) left a trail of nerve agent in the restaurant after their poisoning +18

The investigation into the poisoning has led to a series of locations around Salisbury being sealed off and decontaminated

Soldiers in Hazmat suits closed down a village near Salisbury yesterday as they removed a recovery truck thought to have towed Mr Skripal's car from the scen

What is the Novichok nerve agent used against the Skripals?
The Novichok nerve agent used against former Russian spy Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia is among the most deadly poisons ever created.

They were secretly developed by the Soviet Union during the height of the Cold war in the 1970s and 1980s.

Communist scientists developed the poison so it would not be able to be detected by Nato's chemical detection equipment.

They come in the form of a ultra-fine powder, Novichok is up to eight times more potent than the deadly VX gas.

Victims who are poisoned by the powder suffer muscle spasms, breathing problems and then cardiac arrest.

There is a known antidote to the nerve agent - atropine can block the poison.

But doctors find it very tricky to administer the antidote because the dose would have to be so high it could prove fatal for the person.

Novichok poisons are highly dangerous to handle, requiring the expertise of skilled scientists in a sophisticated lab.

Dr Vil Mirzayanov, former Chief of the Foreign Technical Counterintelligence Department at Russia’s premiere, was among the team of scientists who helped develop the agent.

In an article about the lethal weapon, he wrote: 'They are extremely dangerous – most likely lethal – for people who would try to synthesise or manipulate them without the help of highly experienced scientists and engineers in special laboratory installations observing extreme safety measures.

'Without exception, Novichok weapons cannot be used for any reason without specially trained military personnel under medical supervision.'
The Kremlin was given a deadline of midnight to respond to the evidence and the government could outline its 'detailed' retaliation later today.

'Should there be no credible response we will conclude that his action amounts to an unlawful use of force by the Russian state against the United Kingdom, and I will come back to this House and set out the full range of measures that we will take in response,' she said.

'This attempted murder using a weapons-grade nerve agent on a British town was not just a crime against the Skripals, it was an indiscriminate ad reckless act against the United Kingdom, putting the lives of innocent civilians at risk,' she said.

'And we will not tolerate such a brazen attempt to murder innocent civilians on our soil.'

While The White House's press secretary Sarah Huckabee Sanders refused to even mention Russia as she condemned the attack, US Secretary of State Rex Tillerson was far more committal.

Having talked to Foreign Secretary Boris Johnson yesterday, Tillerson said: 'We have full confidence in the UK's investigation and its assessment that Russia was likely responsible for the nerve agent attack that took place in Salisbury last week.

'There is never a justification for this type of attack - the attempted murder of a private citizen on the soil of a sovereign nation - and we are outraged that Russia appears to have again engaged in such behaviour.

'From Ukraine to Syria - and now the UK - Russia continues to be an irresponsible force of instability in the world, acting with open disregard for the sovereignty of other states and the life of their citizens.

'We agree that those responsible - both those who committed the crime and those who ordered it - must face appropriately serious consequences.
'We stand in solidarity with our allies in the United Kingdom and will continue to coordinate closely our responses.'

Theresa May is under growing pressure to go public with suspicions the Kremlin is to blame for the assassination attempt on the 66-year-old and his daughter, 33. Pictured: Military personnel wearing protective suits investigate at the scene on Sunday +18
Theresa May is under growing pressure to go public with suspicions the Kremlin is to blame for the assassination attempt on the 66-year-old and his daughter, 33. Pictured: Military personnel wearing protective suits investigate at the scene on Sunday

Anti-terror police also took over a Sainsbury's car park in Salisbury as part of the rapidly expanding chemical attack probe +18
Military personnel wearing protective suits remove a police car and other vehicles from a public car park as they continue investigations into the poisoning of Sergei Skripal yesterday

Counter-terrorism police and intelligence officers are thought to have presented compelling evidence at the NSC meeting that Moscow ordered the hit in Salisbury over a week ago.

The nerve agent - Novichok - that contaminated the victims was so secret that it was never known to have been used until now, the Times claimed.
MPs from across parties voiced support for Mrs May's robust reaction to the outrage on UK soil.

But Labour leader Jeremy Corbyn drew shouts and jeers as he criticised the government for failing to 'talk' to the Kremlim and complained about Tory donations from Russian business figures.

'We need to continue seeking a robust dialogue with Russia on all the issues dividing our countries, both domestic and international - rather than simply cutting off contact and simply letting tensions and divisions get worse, and potentially even more dangerous,' Mr Corbyn said.

Theresa May has offered Russia a way to 'extricate themselves' from the Salisbury attack fallout by saying poison could have found its way into rogue hands, expert says

Theresa May has offered Russia a way to 'extricate themselves' from the Salisbury attack fallout, an expert has said.
The Prime Minister announced on Monday that a military-grade nerve agent Novichok was used in the attempted murder of Sergei Skripal and his daughter Yulia.

She told MPs that there were only two possible explanations - either Moscow was behind the attack or it had lost control of its stockpile of the poison.
Dr Jonathan Eyal, associate director at Royal United Services Institute (RUSI), said that by offering the second option she was giving Russia an opportunity.

'It was a two-pronged message - it was a message suggesting that the British government is not prepared to pretend any longer that we do not know who is the culprit in this story,' he added.
'It was also an attempt to suggest to the Russians that they still have a chance to extricate themselves from the fallout.

'It was a rather clever attempt to delay what is likely to be a very difficult period in the relationship between the two countries.'
He continued: 'It's an interesting approach, she could have stood up in the House of Commons and said today that she was advised that it came from the Russians, a special chemical agent, and here is the British retaliation - she didn't do that precisely because it is clear that the downturn in the relationship is going to be pretty severe.'

The Kremlin has denied the involvement of the Russian government in the nerve agent attack on the Skripals.
Dr Eyal said the type of chemical agent used 'would not have been produced by a rogue person'.

'But the Prime Minister gave the possibility to the Russians of suggesting that there might have been rogue elements within the intelligence community,' he added.
Mrs May was giving the Kremlin a 'more elegant way out should it wish to take it', he said.
'Sadly I don't see any chance of the Russians taking it.

'The outcome will be that by Wednesday I think the Prime Minister will be in a stronger position to claim that all options have been explored and there is no escape from retaliatory measures.'

He faced shouts of 'shame' and 'disgrace' from Conservative MPs as he told the Commons: 'We're all familiar with the way huge fortunes, often acquired in the most dubious circumstances in Russia, sometimes connected with criminal elements, have ended up sheltering in London and trying to buy political influence in British party politics.

'Meddling in elections, as the Prime Minister put it, and there has been over £800,000 worth of donations to the Conservative Party from Russian oligarchs and their associates.'

Former Tory leader Iain Duncan Smith branded Russia a 'rogue state' and demanded the 'most severe' response.
He said: 'If we appease a country like this, then we should expect even worse.'
Commons Foreign Affairs Committee chair Tom Tugendhat said the use of nerve gas was a 'war like act'.
Home Affairs Committee chair Yvette Cooper said a cross-party stand was needed against Russian aggression.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article ... z59d9ClrHy
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[Vips]

Twice now the Madman has used dangerous Nerve agents in public places in UK and openly put its citizens to serious risk and the Brishitters are not able to do anything!!!! Is this the same nation that ruled half the world?

[Philip]

Vlad-the-Bad rules OK! Ha!Ha!.If Putin and co. are so obsessed with every titbit ex-spy ,that too pardoned for his crimes,and suddenly want to take their revenge 7 years later,he would never have ruled Russia for 17 years.

It yet again exposes the hypocrisy of the Brits,if even for argument's sake,let's say the Bolshies did it,how many millions of Iraqis,Syrians,Afghans,Libyans and sundry Yemenis-killed by British weapons supplied to the Saudis,have died due to British direct military action or as a consequence of their foreign policy and military arms sales? Britain's Porton Down chem/bio warfare establishment is supposed to be one of the wold's leading centre for the most dangerous chem warfare and bio-WMDs.The agent that Skripal and his daughter have been affected with could very well have come from British labs in a "false flag" op.,( A political or military act orchestrated in such a way that it appears to have been carried out by a party that is not in fact responsible).

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/po ... 76411.html
How the British Government subjected thousands of people to chemical and biological warfare trials during Cold War
Exclusive: Historians had previously thought that such operations were much less extensive
David Keys

[quote]Exclusive: Historians had previously thought that such operations were much less extensive
David Keys

Field trial personnel in 1956. The masks had to be worn to allow the collection of proxy warfare substances that had been sprayed from aircraft Imperial War Museums
During the Cold War, the British Government used the general public as unwitting biological and chemical warfare guinea pigs on a much greater scale than previously thought, according to new historical research.

In more than 750 secret operations, hundreds of thousands of ordinary Britons were subjected to ‘mock’ biological and chemical warfare attacks launched from aircraft, ships and road vehicles.

Up until now historians had thought that such operations had been much less extensive. The new research, carried out by Ulf Schmidt, Professor of Modern History at the University of Kent, has revealed that British military aircraft dropped thousands of kilos of a chemical of ‘largely unknown toxic potential’ on British civilian populations in and around Salisbury in Wiltshire, Cardington in Bedfordshire and Norwich in Norfolk.

In pictures: secret germ and chemical warfare trials

Substantial quantities were also dispersed across parts of the English Channel and the North Sea. It’s not known the extent to which coastal towns in England and France were affected.

The research reveals, for the first time, that around 4600 kilos of the chemical, zinc cadmium sulphide (now thought to be potentially carcinogenic, on account of its cadmium content) were dispersed from ships, aircraft and moving lorries between 1953 and 1964.
Professor Schmidt’s investigation – published on 9 July as a book, Secret Science – has revealed that commuters on the London underground were also used as guinea pigs on a substantially larger scale than previously thought.

The new research has discovered that a hitherto unknown biological warfare field trial was carried out in the capital’s tube system in May 1964.

The secret operation – carried out by scientists from the government’s chemical and biological warfare research centre at Porton Down, Wiltshire - involved the release of large quantities of bacteria called Bacillus globigii. The scientists were keen to discover whether ‘long distance travel of aerosols’ in the tube network ‘was due to transportation within trains’ or through the tube’s air ventilation systems.

pg-15-chemical-war-7-getty.jpg
Commuters were exposed to toxic bacteria in 1964 (Getty)
At the time, the government thought that Bacillus globigii bacteria were harmless – but they are today regarded as a cause of food poisoning, eye infections, and even septicaemia. It is not known whether the authorities attempted to properly test the bacterium before releasing it into the tube system. An earlier series of tube field trials, in July 1963, has been known to historians for many years.

However, the new research has now revealed that some of the British scientists involved had grave misgivings about the field trials that had been carried out. Indeed some had long felt that it was not politically advisable to conduct large-scale trials in Britain with live bacterial agents.

One particular test – involving live plague bacteria – was carried out off the west coast of Scotland in 1952. It’s long been known that a fishing vessel inadvertently passed through the cloud of bacteria and that the authorities were very worried that the fishermen might contract the disease.

The plague bacteria field trials, though at sea, took place only a few miles from the Isle of Lewis which had a population of several thousand.

The government scientists, carrying out the trials, banked on the fact that the prevailing wind normally blew away from the coast. If, however, the wind had changed direction, thousands of Hebrideans would have been at risk from plague infection, says Professor Schmidt.

pg-15-chemical-war-8-getty.jpg
Equipment for the isolation of patients in a germ free atmosphere, which was developed at Porton Down in collaboration with the Institute of Child Health (Getty)
Following the fishing vessel incident, the scientists were eager to carry out any further potentially very hazardous field trials outside the UK. Prime Minister Churchill therefore approved a plan to carry out tests in a British overseas territory, the Bahamas.

New research shows that the government scientists took the view that the Bahamas was the best place “on the surface of the globe” to carry out tests “without restrictions”.

In 1954, the British government sent Cold War biological warfare scientists to an area of sea near an uninhabited island in the Bahamas to release clouds of dangerous Venezuelan Equine Encephalitis viruses. These organisms were capable of causing, in humans, high fever, long term fatigue, headaches and occasionally death.

The new research reveals, for the first time, that in another British imperial possession, Nigeria, a location was found for chemical warfare field trials. In an area called Obanaghoro in southern Nigeria, four British Cold War scientific missions spent a total of around 15 months dispersing, and assessing the effects of, large quantities of experimental nerve gas weapons. The advantage of the location was that it permitted field trials to be carried out in a tropical environment – and, of course, that it was not in Britain or Australia.

The extent that local people (including locally employed field trial personnel) were affected by the nerve agents is not known.

pg-15-chemical-war-6-getty.jpg
Protesters demand an end to germ warfare in 1963 at Porton Down (Getty)
Historians have so far been unable to find out who did the particularly hazardous work of ‘hand-charging’ the nerve agent artillery shells, mortar bombs and aircraft cluster bombs. Likewise they have not been able to discover the extent to which local Nigerian soils were contaminated or whether nearby villages and schools were affected by any of the toxic clouds that would have been blown across the countryside.

“The government records I’ve been looking at are conspicuously silent on all this,” said Ulf Schmidt.

“Officials had clearly good reasons as to why the kind of experiments undertaken in Nigeria were strictly prohibited on the British mainland, which is why the files and photographic records surrounding Britain’s post-war nerve agent testing in Africa were regarded as particularly sensitive,” he said.

Professor Schmidt’s research has also revealed the vast scale of Cold War chemical warfare tests carried out on ‘volunteer’ British service personnel here in the UK – involving numbers of people much greater than previously thought.

His investigation now suggests that up to 30,000 secret chemical warfare substance experiments were carried out, mainly at Porton Down, on more than 14,000 British soldiers between 1945 and 1989. He believes that, in most cases, the servicemen were not given sufficient information to allow them to give properly informed consent.

Ulf Schmidt’s book, Secret Science, is published today on 9 July, by Oxford University Press.

/quote]

[Bart S]

Britain has reportedly 'Given the Kremlin 2 days to explain'. I wonder what they will be able to do if the Russians continue to show them the finger. Get drunk and start a football riot?

[Philip]

Head for the nearest pub to watch tonight's game at Old Trafford. if you've no tkt.!
My little birdy tells me that what May is deey worried about is a dismal and to be expected England performance at yhe World Cup which in the time of acute Brexit woes,dividing her own party, will spell doom for her
and unseat her in a party rebellion., with everyone 's mood
in sh*t strèet.

[KrishnaK]

Britain has reportedly 'Given the Kremlin 2 days to explain'. I wonder what they will be able to do if the Russians continue to show them the finger. Get drunk and start a football riot?

What happens if the British start doing the same ? We've seen how this confrontation ends before.