Tejas Mk.1 & Mk.1A News & Discussions: 09 February 2018

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 Apr 2018 22:05

So JayS, the option is new green field line at Sulur airbase or expand the HAL capacity by adding more assembly fixtures.

While the latter is more doable, the former is better in long run as a new AMCA assembly area is needed.
Besides the HAL B'lur will be more eggs in same basket. Add union woes in future.

As to HAL 25/year, look at the looming threats IAF needs planes fast.
And Tejas design progression is clear
Tejas-> Mk1A-> Mk2

Maybe Sulur can be set up to make Mk1A as it would need that much time to set-up and progress to Mk2 which leads to AMCA there.

Prasad, To avoid hassle I am not suggesting private venture. Its to tie up with RM vision of Defense corridor in TN that I am suggesting this.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 Apr 2018 22:09

sarang wrote:is it me or Tejas didn´t fired anything in that video

This video is longer and has better view

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 27 Apr 2018 23:39

This test covered the Tejas carrying an asymmetric payload with 1 drop tank, 1 LGB and 1 Derby BVRAAM.

Really momentous event for the Tejas! It is now FULLY OPS on the Derby BVRAAM with the radar.

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 28 Apr 2018 00:48

So all Tejas FOC milestones achieved?

Thakur_B · Post by **Thakur_B** » 28 Apr 2018 01:42

ramana wrote:So all Tejas FOC milestones achieved?

Yet to do hawai firing of the bandook.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 28 Apr 2018 02:00

ramana wrote:So all Tejas FOC milestones achieved?

No, air to air refueling remains to be demonstrated.

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 28 Apr 2018 02:15

Thakur_B wrote:
ramana wrote:So all Tejas FOC milestones achieved?
Yet to do hawai firing of the bandook.

Don't think that's part of FOC.

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 28 Apr 2018 04:32

Just a lovely shot

srai · Post by **srai** » 28 Apr 2018 06:57

Thakur_B wrote:
ramana wrote:So all Tejas FOC milestones achieved?
Yet to do hawai firing of the bandook.

Gun is no longer part of the initial FOC.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 28 Apr 2018 07:53

Kartik wrote:This test covered the Tejas carrying an asymmetric payload with 1 drop tank, 1 LGB and 1 Derby BVRAAM.

Really momentous event for the Tejas! It is now FULLY OPS on the Derby BVRAAM with the radar.

Image shows Tejas in multirole config with LGB and BVRAAM

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 28 Apr 2018 09:30

Kartik wrote:Just a lovely shot

Kartik wrote:

shiv wrote:Image shows Tejas in multirole config with LGB and BVRAAM

Indeed! Those color coordinated drop tanks on the Tejas and the multi-role config are like soup for the soul. The bird is ready.

wig · Post by **wig** » 28 Apr 2018 10:35

Tejas aircraft of future: IAF Chief
http://www.tribuneindia.com/news/nation ... 80865.html

on the performance of LCA during recent exercise GS the Chief said

Asked whether there were issues regarding Tejas during the exercise, Dhanoa responded in the affirmative. He said this could be because of moving the jets from Bengaluru, which has a temperate climate, to hot desert during the operation.
“But HAL got it up in less than six hours and thereafter, Tejas matched with other aircraft detail for detail,” he said. Dhanoa added that the Air Force was moving towards making the aircraft better

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 28 Apr 2018 10:54

Kartik wrote:Just a lovely shot

People say that LCA is light and small. But the pictures posted if not photoshopped, clearly shows the scale of the Tejas when compared to MKI. Boy it's not small.

Would love to see size comparison of an overhead shot with the Tejas and MKI parked side by side.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 28 Apr 2018 12:04

ramana wrote:So all Tejas FOC milestones achieved?

The primary FOC milestone is testing and certifying FOC software and opening up of the complete Mk1 envelope. Rest of the systems development & certification like Derby, MAR, gun etc are parallel activities. Same was the case for IOC too.

jaysimha · Post by **jaysimha** » 28 Apr 2018 13:02

Ministry of Defence
LCA Tejas Achieves Yet Another Milestone Towards FOC Certification
Posted On: 28 APR 2018 12:40PM by PIB Delhi
Tejas, the Light Combat Aircraft (LCA) successfully fired Derby Air-to-Air Beyond Visual Range Missile to expand the firing envelope as well as to demonstrate safe operation of the aircraft during missile plume ingestion into the aircraft engine under worst case scenarios. The missile was launched from LCATejas piloted by Wg Cdr Siddharth Singh on 27 April 2018 from the firing range off the Goa coast after exhaustive study of the missile separation characteristics and plume envelope. LCATejas has been designed & developed by DRDO’s autonomous society – Aeronautical Development Agency (ADA).

Integration of Derby, a BVR class missile is one of the major objectives of Final Operational Clearance (FOC) of LCATejas.

The aircraft was tracked by two other Tejas aircraft in close formation to capture the firing event in the specially instrumented high speed cameras for detailed analysis and comparison with the simulation model for validation. The entire planning, practice sorties and final firing was carried out by ADA and it’s National Flight Test Centre (NFTC) officials Cmde JA Maolankar and GpCapt A Kabadwal, IAF, DG(AQA), HAL & INS HANSA.

Based on the successful integration and demonstration, Regional Centre for Military Airworthiness (RCMA), a unit of DRDO has cleared the series production aircraft of Squadron 45, to be equipped with Derby operational capability. LCATejas has successfully completed a series of captive flight trials to clear Derby for the full operational capability in the entire FOC envelope. In the past, Tejas has qualified for the armaments and missile release related trials.

Raksha Mantri Smt. Nirmala Sitharaman has complimented DRDO and other agencies involved for making LCATejas fighter jet, a world class aircraft platform.

Chairman DRDO& Secretary Department of Defence R&D Dr. S Christopher, congratulated and said that with this firing, LCATejas achieved another major milestone towards FOC certification.

NAo/Rajib

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sarang · Post by **sarang** » 28 Apr 2018 13:07

ramana wrote:
sarang wrote:is it me or Tejas didn´t fired anything in that video

This video is longer and has better view

Thanks Ramana, missed the details

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 28 Apr 2018 19:46

https://www.deccanherald.com/national/t ... 67142.html

Following up with this mastering of firing Derby(50km), Mk1a++ can focus on Astra extended range max 110km from Tejas platform.

We should really go for from the get go on Astra buddy firing mode cued from MKI, say 250-300km away from target and Tejas in stealth mode (lpi radar burst mode) at 100km from target.

Dhoti sibber will be at all P5 HQs.

PS: check out the shibber points from Su35 post in the Sukhoi dhaaga to corelate this net-centric warfare capability and specifically telling point that Tejas is near stealthy by design.

fanne · Post by **fanne** » 28 Apr 2018 21:23

MK1a is far off (relatively, A AESA has not yet been chosen). We should go for current LCA and produce few squadron worth before MK1A matures, SOP freezes ityadi. The worst news at this juncture will be production lying idle as we wait for some gold plated LCA

Haridas · Post by **Haridas** » 28 Apr 2018 22:20

^^^ Saik, imho just pure mental self stimulation. One can jusy as well add into the stew optical cloaking stealth of Tejas. What is the big need for AMCA? I say walk before you jog and much later sprint and much later aspire to win 100m Olympics.
Enthusiasm balanced with realism is a more valuable.
JMT.

kit · Post by **kit** » 29 Apr 2018 00:44

SaiK wrote: PS: check out the shibber points from Su35 post in the Sukhoi dhaaga to corelate this net-centric warfare capability and specifically telling point that Tejas is near stealthy by design.

The Tejas is near stealthy visually as well., at some angles you can hardly see it in the sky even at rooftop level .. 6th gen stealth

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 29 Apr 2018 02:44

Haridas wrote:^^^ Saik, imho just pure mental self stimulation. One can jusy as well add into the stew optical cloaking stealth of Tejas. What is the big need for AMCA? I say walk before you jog and much later sprint and much later aspire to win 100m Olympics.
Enthusiasm balanced with realism is a more valuable.
JMT.

While I agree with you completely, Astra is next in line to be integrated on the Tejas.

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 29 Apr 2018 02:52

^so it is the basic Derby for now and not the extended version

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 29 Apr 2018 02:53

CM be realistic.
Like Patel asked Nehru about Kashmir:

Do you want Tejas with IAF or not?

Derby ER is still not yet ready for export.

I would rather they equip with Astra and beyond.

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 29 Apr 2018 03:49

Side effects of getting addicted to this thread: This afternoon I dreamt of a huge Tejas like bomber and woke up in the morning and the first search on delta wing bomber gave avro vulcan bomber. Would be interesting to attempt a kaveri based Tejas type multiple engine bomber. Would be good to powder the pearls from the string of pearls

darshhan · Post by **darshhan** » 29 Apr 2018 11:08

ArjunPandit wrote:Side effects of getting addicted to this thread: This afternoon I dreamt of a huge Tejas like bomber and woke up in the morning and the first search on delta wing bomber gave avro vulcan bomber. Would be interesting to attempt a kaveri based Tejas type multiple engine bomber. Would be good to powder the pearls from the string of pearls

Why do I have a feeling that it is absolutely doable.

JayS · Post by **JayS** » 29 Apr 2018 11:36

Plz no doscussion on this bomber here. Design your aircraft thread is there for this.

ks_sachin · Post by **ks_sachin** » 29 Apr 2018 12:32

I also had a dream.
In my dream the IAF was so impressed by the LCA after GS that the upped ther orders to 300 odd straight away in MK1 config with MK1A part of a upgrade when a radar is decided. No delays on account of radar!!!!

wig · Post by **wig** » 29 Apr 2018 19:27

As Tejas inches towards final clearance, DRDO chairman explains why the fighter jet programme was delayed

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/a ... 2018-04-29

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 29 Apr 2018 20:23

wig wrote:As Tejas inches towards final clearance, DRDO chairman explains why the fighter jet programme was delayed

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/a ... 2018-04-29

Remarks about warships building are incorrect. IN had planned ship upgrades. 16, 16A etc

IAF needed changes as role of Tejas changed.

Also Kaveri jet engine never showed up
Engine needed to be changed as LCA weight was not per early design.

Anyway it looks more like finger pointing than lessons learned.
Better to be avoided.
Dr. Christopher has accomplished a lot and among DRDO chiefs is next to Kalam saheb.

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 29 Apr 2018 22:15

ramana wrote:CM be realistic.
Like Patel asked Nehru about Kashmir:

Do you want Tejas with IAF or not?

Derby ER is still not yet ready for export.

I would rather they equip with Astra and beyond.

I'm just trying to get to the bottom of this idea that the ER Derby would be used as suggested by articles such as this one
http://m.aviationweek.com/paris-air-sho ... formance-0

But yes I agree that the Astra would be a great way to go.

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 29 Apr 2018 22:36

ramana wrote:
wig wrote:As Tejas inches towards final clearance, DRDO chairman explains why the fighter jet programme was delayed

https://www.indiatoday.in/india/story/a ... 2018-04-29
<snip/>
Anyway it looks more like finger pointing than lessons learned.
Better to be avoided.
Dr. Christopher has accomplished a lot and among DRDO chiefs is next to Kalam saheb.

Dr. Christopher has indeed accomplished a lot - be it with Tejas, Astra, Nag, Akash for Army, Air-launched Brahmos readiness for our Su-30MKI, push for transfer of technology from DRDO to private industry, push for DRDO to address core technologies, and more.

DRDO chief Dr S Christopher gets one-year extension

In fact, there was some strong resentment, even among BRF members, against him receiving a one-year extension in May 2017 for retirement. A LOT has been accomplished in that year. While those eagerly waiting for the job may have been disappointed by the extension, India gained a lot from it.

prasannasimha · Post by **prasannasimha** » 29 Apr 2018 23:33

Wonder why Avinash Chandra was removed ?

PratikDas · Post by **PratikDas** » 30 Apr 2018 02:52

Pratyush wrote: People say that LCA is light and small. But the pictures posted if not photoshopped, clearly shows the scale of the Tejas when compared to MKI. Boy it's not small.

Would love to see size comparison of an overhead shot with the Tejas and MKI parked side by side.

This is the best comparison I've seen so far, i.e. with the least perspective error, and from Shiv Aroor's Livefist:
https://twitter.com/livefist/status/984406575296151552

Click for hi-res

Scaling by wingspan, the Tejas seems much smaller from the top view, assuming the drawings are accurate to begin with:

Click for hi-res

Cain Marko · Post by **Cain Marko** » 30 Apr 2018 07:13

PratikDas wrote:
Pratyush wrote: People say that LCA is light and small. But the pictures posted if not photoshopped, clearly shows the scale of the Tejas when compared to MKI. Boy it's not small.

Would love to see size comparison of an overhead shot with the Tejas and MKI parked side by side.
This is the best comparison I've seen so far, i.e. with the least perspective error, and from Shiv Aroor's Livefist:
https://twitter.com/livefist/status/984406575296151552

Click for hi-res

Scaling by wingspan, the Tejas seems much smaller from the top view, assuming the drawings are accurate to begin with:
]

I wonder if radar can differentiate the two birds if they are flown in very tight formation... Seems like the rambha could carry nanha Tejas in the centerline....iaf has the biggest and the smallest fighter in it's inventory, could have very interesting results

ArjunPandit · Post by **ArjunPandit** » 30 Apr 2018 07:42

i think the same thing was tried in red flag exercise, where mig 21 was hidden below/behind rambha.and then got it...

Karthik S · Post by **Karthik S** » 30 Apr 2018 08:25

ArjunPandit wrote:i think the same thing was tried in red flag exercise, where mig 21 was hidden below/behind rambha.and then got it...

Could you rephrase or elaborate.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 30 Apr 2018 08:45

ArjunPandit wrote:i think the same thing was tried in red flag exercise, where mig 21 was hidden below/behind rambha.and then got it...

MiG-21 never participated in any Red Flag.

And in no exercise, whether Cope India 2004 or any other one, was it ever "hidden" under any aircraft

Not sure how qualitative in value is this entire discussion of 13.2 meter Tejas being a Su-30MKI centerline store.

shiv · Post by **shiv** » 30 Apr 2018 09:42

tsarkar wrote:
ArjunPandit wrote:i think the same thing was tried in red flag exercise, where mig 21 was hidden below/behind rambha.and then got it...
MiG-21 never participated in any Red Flag.

And in no exercise, whether Cope India 2004 or any other one, was it ever "hidden" under any aircraft

Not sure how qualitative in value is this entire discussion of 13.2 meter Tejas being a Su-30MKI centerline store.

The stories that did the rounds after Cope India were that MiG 21s in close formation with Su-30s were not visible to radar until they peeled away. I was unable to find any report of that but only found this:
https://theaviationist.com/2014/05/02/c ... [quote]The MiG-21s would be embedded with a (MiG-27) Flogger for integral protection. There was a data link between the Flankers that was used to pass information.[/quote]

srai · Post by **srai** » 30 Apr 2018 11:23

ArjunPandit wrote:i think the same thing was tried in red flag exercise, where mig 21 was hidden below/behind rambha.and then got it...

Have not heard that one before.

The one where Bisons made some F-15 kills were in many-to-few exercises in Cope India-1. MiG-21 Bisons were able to get in close enough with Israeli jammers to launch BVRs.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 30 Apr 2018 11:59

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