Understanding the US - Again
Re: Understanding the US- Again
mort - can you throw some light on your comment that the remaining 5-7% will vote for DT?
Re: Understanding the US- Again
Again all I can say is to read the whole transcript..(available at many many sources)...Gus wrote:i am not disputing putin did it, or trump knew it etc.
putin has so far never accepted interference. before helsinki, or in helsinki as well - except the 'yes i did' clip you posted. - which points to possibility that he was answering yes twice, but to first question. really doubt that putin would mouth off like that...he is not trump.
Re: Understanding the US- Again
Again. It makes for great jokes in late night circuit, but nobody seriously thinks Putin admitted interference.
Re: Understanding the US- Again
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/20/busi ... ottom-well
Trump Blasts Fed, China and Europe for Putting U.S. Economy at a Disadvantage
By Ana Swanson, Jim Tankersley and Alan Rappeport, July 20, 2018
WASHINGTON — President Trump accused China and the European Union on Friday of manipulating their currencies to gain an edge in global trade and escalated his criticism of the Federal Reserve for raising interest rates, saying those moves were putting the United States at a disadvantage.
Mr. Trump appears ready to blame the Fed for trying to slow down a booming economy that he wants to make a centerpiece of the midterm elections. The president’s $1.5 trillion tax cut, along with federal spending increases, have injected new stimulus into an economy that is finally shaking off the last vestiges of the recession. In a flurry of early-morning Twitter posts, Mr. Trump complained that the Fed’s pattern of rate increases “hurts all that we have done” and that a “stronger and stronger” United States dollar was “taking away our big competitive edge.”
He also doubled down on his trade fight with China, vowing in an interview with CNBC that aired Friday that he was ready to impose tariffs on $500 billion worth of Chinese imports — roughly all the goods China sends to the United States each year.
But behind Mr. Trump’s criticism is an economic paradox of his own making: The very policies he has pushed, like tax cuts, increased government spending or protectionist tariffs, are fueling many of the global changes that he finds so troubling. A booming United States economy is strengthening the dollar against other currencies, and Mr. Trump’s tariffs are prompting some countries, like China, to take steps to protect their exporters. The Fed, concerned about too rapid an expansion that is fueled in part by the enormous fiscal stimulus ushered in by the White House, is slowly raising rates to keep the economy from overheating.
White House aides said that Mr. Trump was not trying to influence the Fed, the nation’s central bank, but added that he would prefer if officials paused their plans for rate increases to avoid dampening economic growth. The Fed has raised rates twice this year and is on track to raise them twice more by the end of the year, officials indicated after the Fed’s meeting in June. Eswar Prasad, an economist at Cornell University, said the president’s tweets displayed “a breezy ignorance of facts and limited understanding of basic principles of economics.”
“The dollar is strengthening against other currencies because the U.S. economy is doing well and is implementing a fiscal expansion through a massive tax cut, both of which Mr. Trump has claimed credit for,” Mr. Prasad said. He added that condemning rate increases as “implicitly aiding the enemy in U.S. trade wars is a dangerous and destructive strike against the Fed’s independence.”
While financial markets seemed to shrug off Mr. Trump’s initial comments on the Federal Reserve, which came on Thursday, his Twitter posts on Friday — all of which seemed aimed at pushing the dollar lower — drew a reaction. The dollar, as measured by the United States dollar index, fell sharply. Prices of 30-year United States Treasury bonds, which are highly sensitive to changes in inflation expectations, also dropped, pushing yields — which move in the opposite direction — higher. Prices for gold, a traditional hedge against inflation risk, rose.
“Trump clearly doesn’t accept that a strong dollar and a widening trade deficit are the natural result of his own fiscal expansion,” said Brad W. Setser, a senior fellow for international economics at the Council on Foreign Relations.
.....
Gautam
Trump Blasts Fed, China and Europe for Putting U.S. Economy at a Disadvantage
By Ana Swanson, Jim Tankersley and Alan Rappeport, July 20, 2018
WASHINGTON — President Trump accused China and the European Union on Friday of manipulating their currencies to gain an edge in global trade and escalated his criticism of the Federal Reserve for raising interest rates, saying those moves were putting the United States at a disadvantage.
Mr. Trump appears ready to blame the Fed for trying to slow down a booming economy that he wants to make a centerpiece of the midterm elections. The president’s $1.5 trillion tax cut, along with federal spending increases, have injected new stimulus into an economy that is finally shaking off the last vestiges of the recession. In a flurry of early-morning Twitter posts, Mr. Trump complained that the Fed’s pattern of rate increases “hurts all that we have done” and that a “stronger and stronger” United States dollar was “taking away our big competitive edge.”
He also doubled down on his trade fight with China, vowing in an interview with CNBC that aired Friday that he was ready to impose tariffs on $500 billion worth of Chinese imports — roughly all the goods China sends to the United States each year.
But behind Mr. Trump’s criticism is an economic paradox of his own making: The very policies he has pushed, like tax cuts, increased government spending or protectionist tariffs, are fueling many of the global changes that he finds so troubling. A booming United States economy is strengthening the dollar against other currencies, and Mr. Trump’s tariffs are prompting some countries, like China, to take steps to protect their exporters. The Fed, concerned about too rapid an expansion that is fueled in part by the enormous fiscal stimulus ushered in by the White House, is slowly raising rates to keep the economy from overheating.
White House aides said that Mr. Trump was not trying to influence the Fed, the nation’s central bank, but added that he would prefer if officials paused their plans for rate increases to avoid dampening economic growth. The Fed has raised rates twice this year and is on track to raise them twice more by the end of the year, officials indicated after the Fed’s meeting in June. Eswar Prasad, an economist at Cornell University, said the president’s tweets displayed “a breezy ignorance of facts and limited understanding of basic principles of economics.”
“The dollar is strengthening against other currencies because the U.S. economy is doing well and is implementing a fiscal expansion through a massive tax cut, both of which Mr. Trump has claimed credit for,” Mr. Prasad said. He added that condemning rate increases as “implicitly aiding the enemy in U.S. trade wars is a dangerous and destructive strike against the Fed’s independence.”
While financial markets seemed to shrug off Mr. Trump’s initial comments on the Federal Reserve, which came on Thursday, his Twitter posts on Friday — all of which seemed aimed at pushing the dollar lower — drew a reaction. The dollar, as measured by the United States dollar index, fell sharply. Prices of 30-year United States Treasury bonds, which are highly sensitive to changes in inflation expectations, also dropped, pushing yields — which move in the opposite direction — higher. Prices for gold, a traditional hedge against inflation risk, rose.
“Trump clearly doesn’t accept that a strong dollar and a widening trade deficit are the natural result of his own fiscal expansion,” said Brad W. Setser, a senior fellow for international economics at the Council on Foreign Relations.
.....
Gautam
Re: Understanding the US- Again
https://www.theatlantic.com/internation ... pt/565385/
The White House Transcript Is Missing the Most Explosive Part of the Trump–Putin Press Conference
It’s not clear whether the omission was intended, but the meaning of a key exchange is dramatically altered as a result.
The White House Transcript Is Missing the Most Explosive Part of the Trump–Putin Press Conference
It’s not clear whether the omission was intended, but the meaning of a key exchange is dramatically altered as a result.
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UlanBatori
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Re: Understanding the US- Again
I believe that video is doctored. I saw the press conference when it first happened. The question from the Oiropean papparazzi with the sanctimonious French accent was:
If the other question had followed it would surely have been in the conference record immediately. But it was not.
Now Putin's answer remains the same, but the question has been doctored. Deep State in action with 404s to believe them and jump up & down.
***
But remember, I don't give a pakistan whether Putin ordered his officials to do what they could to ensure that the HiC gang lost. He works for Russia (I mean Putin). The effect of his action was to inform US voters of crucial stuff that was being concealed by the Dems and HiC/Huma cabal.
So many Cold War novels have the plot that some Soviet Politburo member plans a takeover leading to conquest of Western Europe and the threat of WW3. Intrepid US/UK Agint Erek T. Mijjile (sent directly by POTUS) on Top Secret Mission, and Beautiful Daughter of Soviet Jarnail Secretary run around trees and hang from airplanes and eventually Save Da World. Daughter disappears. Grateful Jarnail Secretary says:
Da Nightingale Sings Under Dzerzhinsky Square as well as in Berkeley Square, Comrade! (Stolen from Frederick Forsyth, The Devil's Alternative).
***
No one impeaches anyone for that.
So what is wrong with the converse? Agint Comrade Smirnoff is sent by Comrade Putin to Save Da Dunia from WW3, having been informed by WikiLeaks that certain US Deep State Agints are planning WW3 and takeover. Comrade Smirnoff contact (no pun intended) Beautiful Daughter of Candidate 2-b POTUS OrangeHead. Hacks into a few servers. Saves The World. Grateful POTUS invites Putin to Mar Largo. Beautiful Daughter becomes Boss of POTUS.
Sure, he said it with a smile and absolutely no hesitation."Did you prefer one candidate over the other in the US Presidential Election? Did you want Mr. Trump to win?"
"Da. Yes I did".
If the other question had followed it would surely have been in the conference record immediately. But it was not.
Now Putin's answer remains the same, but the question has been doctored. Deep State in action with 404s to believe them and jump up & down.
***
But remember, I don't give a pakistan whether Putin ordered his officials to do what they could to ensure that the HiC gang lost. He works for Russia (I mean Putin). The effect of his action was to inform US voters of crucial stuff that was being concealed by the Dems and HiC/Huma cabal.
So many Cold War novels have the plot that some Soviet Politburo member plans a takeover leading to conquest of Western Europe and the threat of WW3. Intrepid US/UK Agint Erek T. Mijjile (sent directly by POTUS) on Top Secret Mission, and Beautiful Daughter of Soviet Jarnail Secretary run around trees and hang from airplanes and eventually Save Da World. Daughter disappears. Grateful Jarnail Secretary says:
Da Nightingale Sings Under Dzerzhinsky Square as well as in Berkeley Square, Comrade! (Stolen from Frederick Forsyth, The Devil's Alternative).
***
No one impeaches anyone for that.
So what is wrong with the converse? Agint Comrade Smirnoff is sent by Comrade Putin to Save Da Dunia from WW3, having been informed by WikiLeaks that certain US Deep State Agints are planning WW3 and takeover. Comrade Smirnoff contact (no pun intended) Beautiful Daughter of Candidate 2-b POTUS OrangeHead. Hacks into a few servers. Saves The World. Grateful POTUS invites Putin to Mar Largo. Beautiful Daughter becomes Boss of POTUS.
The Pea-Hen croaks in Times Square, Comrade!
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UlanBatori
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Re: Understanding the US- Again
Ana chapman was more of a wmd
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Mort Walker
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Re: Understanding the US- Again
There are about half-dozen swing states in the Electoral College. In these swing states, about 5-7% of voters can swing either way to make the difference because they really wait to see who they like less. Keep in mind that 2/3 of all states have Republican controlled legislatures and these swing states typically have Republican legislatures. The tendency is to vote Republican in state elections. The Republican party has more of grass-roots program where they intend to control states and courts - and that is how you win. The elite left in popular culture and media has gone on and on about DT, so much so that they're crying wolf every time DT says or does anything. So when he does something really egregious, many people will have already quit listening to the media. They have discredited themselves. Ultimately when elections come they will vote for DT. Not because they like him, but because they really dislike the alternative.Lalmohan wrote:mort - can you throw some light on your comment that the remaining 5-7% will vote for DT?
By inviting Putin, DT has given an implicit signal to the white nationalist. He is with them and supports a large white nationalist country known as Russia. These white nationalists and those sympathetic with them will vote Republican this November. It is my opinion that the Republicans will hold the Senate and losses in the US House will be limited. The Democratic Party needs to flip 24 seats in the US House to gain control. IMHO, they will only flip 20 at best.
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UlanBatori
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Re: Understanding the US- Again
There was an interesting story about the Primaries this May/June: A long-time incumbent Democrat Rep lost the primary to a newbie wimmen candidate who is still further to the left (as I understand). Story was not about her leanings, but about the voting pattern.
Less than 10% of the registered DEMOCRAT voters actually showed up to vote. So there you go: your vote would have been multiplied by 10 in sheer demographic power. The margin of victory was quite slim out of that because the vote was split many ways. So if you consider your vote to have made a difference, well, it very well could have been THE margin. This shows the magnitude of the problem: Not 5-7% but 0.1 percent might decide the outcome. Now if the Incumbent were running he would probably beat the Elephant candidate handily, but he cannot compete in the election because he is out at the Primary level (unless he stands as Independent? Can he do that after losing a Primary?)
Less than 10% of the registered DEMOCRAT voters actually showed up to vote. So there you go: your vote would have been multiplied by 10 in sheer demographic power. The margin of victory was quite slim out of that because the vote was split many ways. So if you consider your vote to have made a difference, well, it very well could have been THE margin. This shows the magnitude of the problem: Not 5-7% but 0.1 percent might decide the outcome. Now if the Incumbent were running he would probably beat the Elephant candidate handily, but he cannot compete in the election because he is out at the Primary level (unless he stands as Independent? Can he do that after losing a Primary?)
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UlanBatori
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Re: Understanding the US- Again
FreeBiscuits Believed Carter Page was recruited by russians
This is the thing I don't understand: are they saying that the guy was "turned" so he could act as a mole after the election? Why, if they really had a direct line to the Top Man himself?
If I were the Putinistanis, I would have been busy trying to give backsheesh to HiC supporters, since they really needed moles if HiC won.
This is the thing I don't understand: are they saying that the guy was "turned" so he could act as a mole after the election? Why, if they really had a direct line to the Top Man himself?
If I were the Putinistanis, I would have been busy trying to give backsheesh to HiC supporters, since they really needed moles if HiC won.
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Mort Walker
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Re: Understanding the US- Again
From the WN view point:
https://grrrgraphics.com/wp-content/upl ... rump-1.jpgThere’s absolutely nothing wrong with Trump trying to make peace with Russia. It’s clear that no matter what might have occurred, Trump was going to be swamped with waves of shrill invective from the Deep State Swamp hydra. It’s important that our president maintains his focus in order to help make America great again.
Re: Understanding the US- Again
https://foreignpolicy.com/2017/06/20/64 ... ehran-oil/
REPORT
64 Years Later, CIA Finally Releases Details of Iranian Coup
New documents reveal how the CIA attempted to call off the failing coup — only to be salvaged at the last minute by an insubordinate spy.
BY BETHANY ALLEN-EBRAHIMIAN | JUNE 20, 2017, 1:43 PM
Declassified documents released last week shed light on the Central Intelligence Agency’s central role in the 1953 coup that brought down Iranian Prime Minister Muhammad Mossadegh, fueling a surge of nationalism which culminated in the 1979 Iranian Revolution and poisoning U.S.-Iran relations into the 21st century. The approximately 1,000 pages of documents also reveal for the first time the details of how the CIA attempted to call off the failing coup — only to be salvaged at the last minute by an insubordinate spy on the ground.
Known as Operation Ajax, the CIA plot was ultimately about oil. Western firms had for decades controlled the region’s oil wealth, whether Arabian-American Oil Company in Saudi Arabia, or the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company in Iran. When the U.S. firm in Saudi Arabia bowed to pressure in late 1950 and agreed to share oil revenues evenly with Riyadh, the British concession in Iran came under intense pressure to follow suit. But London adamantly refused. So in early 1951, amid great popular acclaim, Mossadegh nationalized Iran’s oil industry. A fuming United Kingdom began conspiring with U.S. intelligence services to overthrow Mossadegh and restore the monarchy under the shah. (Though some in the U.S. State Department, the newly released cables show, blamed British intransigence for the tensions and sought to work with Mossadegh.)
The coup attempt began on August 15 but was swiftly thwarted. Mossadegh made dozens of arrests. Gen. Fazlollah Zahedi, a top conspirator, went into hiding, and the shah fled the country. The CIA, believing the coup to have failed, called it off.
“Operation has been tried and failed and we should not participate in any operation against Mossadegh which could be traced back to US,” CIA headquarters wrote to its station chief in Iran in a newly declassified cable sent on Aug. 18, 1953. “Operations against Mossadegh should be discontinued.” That is the cable which Kermit Roosevelt, top CIA officer in Iran, purportedly and famously ignored, according to Malcolm Byrne, who directs the U.S.-Iran Relations Project at the National Security Archive at George Washington University.
At least “one guy was in the room with Kermit Roosevelt when he got this cable,” Byrne told Foreign Policy. “[Roosevelt] said no — we’re not done here.” It was already known that Roosevelt had not carried out an order from Langley to cease and desist. But the cable itself and its contents were not previously published.
The consequences of his decision were momentous. The next day, on August 19, 1953, with the aid of “rented” crowds widely believed to have been arranged with CIA assistance, the coup succeeded. Iran’s nationalist hero was jailed, the monarchy restored under the Western-friendly shah, and Anglo-Iranian oil — renamed British Petroleum — tried to get its fields back. (But didn’t really: Despite the coup, nationalist pushback against a return to foreign control of oil was too much, leaving BP and other majors to share Iran’s oil wealth with Tehran.)
Operation Ajax has long been a bogeyman for conservatives in Iran — but also for liberals. The coup fanned the flames of anti-Western sentiment, which reached a crescendo in 1979 with the U.S. hostage crisis, the final overthrow of the shah, and the creation of the Islamic Republic to counter the “Great Satan.” The coup alienated liberals in Iran as well. Mossadegh is widely considered to be the closest thing Iran has ever had to a democratic leader. He openly championed democratic values and hoped to establish a democracy in Iran. The elected parliament selected him as prime minister, a position he used to reduce the power of the shah, thus bringing Iran closer in line with the political traditions that had developed in Europe. But any further democratic development was stymied on Aug. 19.
......
Gautam
REPORT
64 Years Later, CIA Finally Releases Details of Iranian Coup
New documents reveal how the CIA attempted to call off the failing coup — only to be salvaged at the last minute by an insubordinate spy.
BY BETHANY ALLEN-EBRAHIMIAN | JUNE 20, 2017, 1:43 PM
Declassified documents released last week shed light on the Central Intelligence Agency’s central role in the 1953 coup that brought down Iranian Prime Minister Muhammad Mossadegh, fueling a surge of nationalism which culminated in the 1979 Iranian Revolution and poisoning U.S.-Iran relations into the 21st century. The approximately 1,000 pages of documents also reveal for the first time the details of how the CIA attempted to call off the failing coup — only to be salvaged at the last minute by an insubordinate spy on the ground.
Known as Operation Ajax, the CIA plot was ultimately about oil. Western firms had for decades controlled the region’s oil wealth, whether Arabian-American Oil Company in Saudi Arabia, or the Anglo-Iranian Oil Company in Iran. When the U.S. firm in Saudi Arabia bowed to pressure in late 1950 and agreed to share oil revenues evenly with Riyadh, the British concession in Iran came under intense pressure to follow suit. But London adamantly refused. So in early 1951, amid great popular acclaim, Mossadegh nationalized Iran’s oil industry. A fuming United Kingdom began conspiring with U.S. intelligence services to overthrow Mossadegh and restore the monarchy under the shah. (Though some in the U.S. State Department, the newly released cables show, blamed British intransigence for the tensions and sought to work with Mossadegh.)
The coup attempt began on August 15 but was swiftly thwarted. Mossadegh made dozens of arrests. Gen. Fazlollah Zahedi, a top conspirator, went into hiding, and the shah fled the country. The CIA, believing the coup to have failed, called it off.
“Operation has been tried and failed and we should not participate in any operation against Mossadegh which could be traced back to US,” CIA headquarters wrote to its station chief in Iran in a newly declassified cable sent on Aug. 18, 1953. “Operations against Mossadegh should be discontinued.” That is the cable which Kermit Roosevelt, top CIA officer in Iran, purportedly and famously ignored, according to Malcolm Byrne, who directs the U.S.-Iran Relations Project at the National Security Archive at George Washington University.
At least “one guy was in the room with Kermit Roosevelt when he got this cable,” Byrne told Foreign Policy. “[Roosevelt] said no — we’re not done here.” It was already known that Roosevelt had not carried out an order from Langley to cease and desist. But the cable itself and its contents were not previously published.
The consequences of his decision were momentous. The next day, on August 19, 1953, with the aid of “rented” crowds widely believed to have been arranged with CIA assistance, the coup succeeded. Iran’s nationalist hero was jailed, the monarchy restored under the Western-friendly shah, and Anglo-Iranian oil — renamed British Petroleum — tried to get its fields back. (But didn’t really: Despite the coup, nationalist pushback against a return to foreign control of oil was too much, leaving BP and other majors to share Iran’s oil wealth with Tehran.)
Operation Ajax has long been a bogeyman for conservatives in Iran — but also for liberals. The coup fanned the flames of anti-Western sentiment, which reached a crescendo in 1979 with the U.S. hostage crisis, the final overthrow of the shah, and the creation of the Islamic Republic to counter the “Great Satan.” The coup alienated liberals in Iran as well. Mossadegh is widely considered to be the closest thing Iran has ever had to a democratic leader. He openly championed democratic values and hoped to establish a democracy in Iran. The elected parliament selected him as prime minister, a position he used to reduce the power of the shah, thus bringing Iran closer in line with the political traditions that had developed in Europe. But any further democratic development was stymied on Aug. 19.
......
Gautam
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UlanBatori
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Re: Understanding the US- Again
Funny thing. The Deep State is now using its own antics of the past to try and sabotage the latest POTUS' sally into similar antics against Iran. Releasing this after 64 years (why not 50? 75?) is too con-venient to be coincidental.
Also a self-goal by the Deep State as Putin uses this. Today the US-NATO-Turkey-UAE-Saudi-Israeli gang rape of Syria is similarly driven by .. ta da! OIL!
Plus maybe water from the Golan Heights. Or maybe there is uranium there.
The strongest boots standing against this gang and kicking them, are still "Eyeranian".
Also a self-goal by the Deep State as Putin uses this. Today the US-NATO-Turkey-UAE-Saudi-Israeli gang rape of Syria is similarly driven by .. ta da! OIL!
Plus maybe water from the Golan Heights. Or maybe there is uranium there.
The strongest boots standing against this gang and kicking them, are still "Eyeranian".
Re: Understanding the US- Again
"US-NATO-Turkey-UAE-Saudi-Israeli gang rape of Syria is similarly driven by .. ta da! OIL! "
UAE-Saudi-Israel want to get Iranian influence down.
Turkey wants to keep the Kurds in check.
European NATO wants to keep the refugees in check.
Trump US wants to do what Israel and/or Russia want.
Had it been Hillary US, they would want to expand on the "success" with Libya.
Here is Israel's concern with Iran in Syria:
https://www.theatlantic.com/internation ... el/565796/
UAE-Saudi-Israel want to get Iranian influence down.
Turkey wants to keep the Kurds in check.
European NATO wants to keep the refugees in check.
Trump US wants to do what Israel and/or Russia want.
Had it been Hillary US, they would want to expand on the "success" with Libya.
Here is Israel's concern with Iran in Syria:
https://www.theatlantic.com/internation ... el/565796/
Last edited by A_Gupta on 23 Jul 2018 08:57, edited 1 time in total.
Re: Understanding the US- Again
https://theintercept.com/2018/02/14/ice ... migration/
How ICE Works to Strip Citizenship from Naturalized Americans
How ICE Works to Strip Citizenship from Naturalized Americans
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Mort Walker
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Re: Understanding the US- Again
Civil denaturalization has been on the books for a long time and real enforcement started after 9/11. What are the actual numbers as to how many persons have been denaturalized?A_Gupta wrote:https://theintercept.com/2018/02/14/ice ... migration/
How ICE Works to Strip Citizenship from Naturalized Americans
Re: Understanding the US- Again
The Russians have to do just enough to keep the pot boiling, their aim is to cause instability. when the orange one is no longer useful, he will be discarded too. the western alliance and its constituent powers are now thoroughly de-stabilised. that's all Russia needs to reclaim the strategic spaceUlanBatori wrote:I"Da. Yes I did". Sure, he said it with a smile and absolutely no hesitation.
recommend tracking down a documentary called "hypernormalisation" - very educational
Re: Understanding the US- Again
mort - thank you; good points
one factor that is missed a lot is the blatant gerrymandering and 'voter disenfranchisement' practiced by many republican controlled areas, which serve to suppress the rural non white vote. this suppression plays a key role in returning a republican majority in the rural areas. the urban areas are majority democrat, but votes there don't affect the national outcome.
Oregon I believe has very fair voting participation practices, far better than most states
and I agree with you, the more shrill the 'left' sound, the more the trump base will double down on core white Christian nationalist identity. in the not very far off future, if this view persists then it will have negative consequences for many... desis in America for sure, and in the foreign policy realm it will be harmful for India
one factor that is missed a lot is the blatant gerrymandering and 'voter disenfranchisement' practiced by many republican controlled areas, which serve to suppress the rural non white vote. this suppression plays a key role in returning a republican majority in the rural areas. the urban areas are majority democrat, but votes there don't affect the national outcome.
Oregon I believe has very fair voting participation practices, far better than most states
and I agree with you, the more shrill the 'left' sound, the more the trump base will double down on core white Christian nationalist identity. in the not very far off future, if this view persists then it will have negative consequences for many... desis in America for sure, and in the foreign policy realm it will be harmful for India
Re: Understanding the US- Again
AFAIK, the first cases are hitting the courts. Trump's task force on denaturalization was set up just several weeks ago.Mort Walker wrote:Civil denaturalization has been on the books for a long time and real enforcement started after 9/11. What are the actual numbers as to how many persons have been denaturalized?A_Gupta wrote:https://theintercept.com/2018/02/14/ice ... migration/
How ICE Works to Strip Citizenship from Naturalized Americans
The target set in Obama's time (Operation Janus) was to re-examine the naturalization of 315,000 naturalized citizens whose fingerprints were not on file. With Trump, this has turned into a denaturalization effort. The first case of a person to be denaturalized under this initiative was Baljinder Singh, aged 43, in January 2018.
As explained here: https://www.vox.com/2018/7/18/17561538/ ... orce-janus
The key issue now is what has changed - about what is "material", and how ICE operates (e.g., by using ICE warrants that are not the usual 4th amendment warrants, which a defendant can, in principle, refuse to comply with), moving the discretion away from the prosecutor and towards the investigator, pursuing civil denaturalization rather than criminal denaturalization (explained in the first link above).The Department of Justice has the power to file a denaturalization lawsuit against a naturalized citizen under two circumstances: first, if they obtained their citizenship illegally — i.e., they didn’t actually meet the legal requirements of citizenship — or, second, if they lied about or concealed something during the citizenship process that was relevant to their case. (As you can probably guess, what counts as relevant — in legal terminology, “material” — is the source of a lot of questions about when denaturalization is appropriate.) They also have the option to charge someone criminally for fraud in naturalization.
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Mort Walker
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Re: Understanding the US- Againp
Voter disenfranchisement is less the case now than in the past. Gerrymandering is a practice by either party when they have control of courts, legislature, and governor. When we require positive voter identification in India for elections, there is nothing wrong in showing an ID card to vote in the US. Some would call that intimidation.Lalmohan wrote:mort - thank you; good points
one factor that is missed a lot is the blatant gerrymandering and 'voter disenfranchisement' practiced by many republican controlled areas, which serve to suppress the rural non white vote. this suppression plays a key role in returning a republican majority in the rural areas. the urban areas are majority democrat, but votes there don't affect the national outcome.
Oregon I believe has very fair voting participation practices, far better than most states
and I agree with you, the more shrill the 'left' sound, the more the trump base will double down on core white Christian nationalist identity. in the not very far off future, if this view persists then it will have negative consequences for many... desis in America for sure, and in the foreign policy realm it will be harmful for India
DT is term limited and he is 72 making him one of the oldest persons to hold office. As the yak herder states, he does serve a purpose in dismantling/discrediting the establishment (deep state). At this time DT is good for India, but bad for Indians.
Re: Understanding the US- Again
from a number of news sources over the past year, if anything disenfranchisement is on the increase and more aggressively targeted at blacks and latinos. so not sure that its a thing of the past. voter id is fine as long as its not recorded on your ballot (like in Singapore), most countries require you to prove who you are before you cast your (secret) ballot
I am still not seeing how DT is good for India. I cannot specifically see anything in his policies/actions that are beneficial to us. neutral at best, but with the possibility of it being applied to us in the future.
I am still not seeing how DT is good for India. I cannot specifically see anything in his policies/actions that are beneficial to us. neutral at best, but with the possibility of it being applied to us in the future.
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UlanBatori
- BRF Oldie
- Posts: 14045
- Joined: 11 Aug 2016 06:14
Re: Understanding the US- Again
DT and VP (Vlad) are about the only entities willing to stand up to the global onslaught of the Ummah (even NutNYahoo has sold out to the Saudi Wahabi ISIS). Indian (foreign-owned) media does not approve of that, Indian (Ummah-owned) Bollywood does not approve, the Indian "intelligentsia" (ox-e-mahran) does not approve. But I would say that overall, it is life-saving for India as a viable nation.
Eleven and cheen have not yet knucked under but I wonder how long that will take. "Abdul Bin Mao" may not be legend any more.
Meanwhile, v c that DT is trying to set up a NoKo type deal with Eyeran, IMO. End-game is to make the Israelis and Saudis see that war with Eyeran will be mostly fought on their land, their skies and their waters. Which is the realization that brings a Biss Accord like SoKo-NoKo.
OTOH, "Fake news" channel CNN sees on anti-trumpism all over. They see a continuum from Mueller Probe to Iran.
Eleven and cheen have not yet knucked under but I wonder how long that will take. "Abdul Bin Mao" may not be legend any more.
Meanwhile, v c that DT is trying to set up a NoKo type deal with Eyeran, IMO. End-game is to make the Israelis and Saudis see that war with Eyeran will be mostly fought on their land, their skies and their waters. Which is the realization that brings a Biss Accord like SoKo-NoKo.
OTOH, "Fake news" channel CNN sees on anti-trumpism all over. They see a continuum from Mueller Probe to Iran.
Re: Understanding the US- Again
I too came to similar conclusion that this is about 'Tribes' and the collapse of Westphalian nation-states.Mort Walker wrote:Putin will visit before the elections in November. If anything DT was and is an east coast racist. Russia is a white nationalist country where other races do not go for studies, business or migration. Gone is the USSR. DT needs Putin to give a message to his base. That is yes, I support the only large white nationalist country in the world, so come out and support my party and me. It will get the closet racists all out to the polls. The Democratic Party will gain little this November.
As long as DT can permanently damage the credibility of the deep state, it will be good for the rest of the world in the long term.
We are seeing the coalescing of tribes.
Westphalia is dead after 400 years....
Pay attention to what Putin said and not DT.
And look at the demeanor of both leaders.
This move towards Tribes has been underway since right before Iraq War which in itself was for Tribes couched as being about rogue states.
And Tribal instinct has been nurtured in the military.
Re: Understanding the US- Again
Saar, they might be the only entities willing to do another crusades. How does that help us? We are not people of the book, our country is a play ground for both tribes. we are F'ed either way.UlanBatori wrote:DT and VP (Vlad) are about the only entities willing to stand up to the global onslaught of the Ummah (even NutNYahoo has sold out to the Saudi Wahabi ISIS). Indian (foreign-owned) media does not approve of that, Indian (Ummah-owned) Bollywood does not approve, the Indian "intelligentsia" (ox-e-mahran) does not approve. But I would say that overall, it is life-saving for India as a viable nation.
Eleven and cheen have not yet knucked under but I wonder how long that will take. "Abdul Bin Mao" may not be legend any more.
Meanwhile, v c that DT is trying to set up a NoKo type deal with Eyeran, IMO. End-game is to make the Israelis and Saudis see that war with Eyeran will be mostly fought on their land, their skies and their waters. Which is the realization that brings a Biss Accord like SoKo-NoKo.
OTOH, "Fake news" channel CNN sees on anti-trumpism all over. They see a continuum from Mueller Probe to Iran.
Re: Understanding the US- Again
so far, DT and family have gone along with all the wishes of al-saud and al-emiratis
that doesn't sound like standing up to the ummah
and besides, karthik makes more sense
that doesn't sound like standing up to the ummah
and besides, karthik makes more sense
Re: Understanding the US- Againp
Wow one more hit out of the ball park.Mort Walker wrote:....
Voter disenfranchisement is less the case now than in the past. Gerrymandering is a practice by either party when they have control of courts, legislature, and governor. When we require positive voter identification in India for elections, there is nothing wrong in showing an ID card to vote in the US. Some would call that intimidation.
DT is term limited and he is 72 making him one of the oldest persons to hold office. As the yak herder states, he does serve a purpose in dismantling/discrediting the establishment (deep state). At this time DT is good for India, but bad for Indians.
DT is de-globalizing as it dismantles the setup after French Revolution.
Hence his cutting down EU and supporting hard #Brexit.
In essence he realizes/understands the Mackinder thesis of World Island of geopolitics.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Geogr ... of_History
Please read the pdfs linked in the wiki page to get a better understanding.
or atleast his:
http://ssi.armywarcollege.edu/pubs/para ... ttweis.htm
In other words Putin has restored Russia to be the pivot of of history.
Later, in 1919, Mackinder summarised his theory as:
"Who rules East Europe commands the Heartland;
who rules the Heartland commands the World-Island;
who rules the World-Island commands the world."
(Mackinder, Democratic Ideals and Reality, p. 150)
Re: Understanding the US- Again
^^^ yes, so Putin has the grand plan
DT is the "useful idiot" as they say in non linear warfare terminology
DT is the "useful idiot" as they say in non linear warfare terminology
Re: Understanding the US- Again
karthikS, They need demographics in this new millennium.
I expect the new census in 2020 the classification of Indians will go back the the 70s Census.
No Lalmohan. Its history that has the plan.
Or vidhata.
I expect the new census in 2020 the classification of Indians will go back the the 70s Census.
No Lalmohan. Its history that has the plan.
Or vidhata.
Re: Understanding the US- Again
Ricky
Remember the Rabbit and two peepul leaves map of the world?
Dhritharashtra asks Sanjay "how does the world look like from Antriksh?"
Sanjay replies" looks like a rabbit and two peepul leaves."
https://goo.gl/images/Jx7jwW
Remember the Rabbit and two peepul leaves map of the world?
Dhritharashtra asks Sanjay "how does the world look like from Antriksh?"
Sanjay replies" looks like a rabbit and two peepul leaves."
https://goo.gl/images/Jx7jwW
So Sage Ramanujacharya illustrated it.his map was translated from a verse in Mahabharata where Dhrithrashtra asks Sanjay,how world looks like from space. He says it is like two peepal leaves joined and a rabbit. It was made by sage Ramanujacharya. Everyone laughed at this idea.
Map2:
Turn map upside down.
Sanjaya through his divya drushti told Dhritarashtra.
And Sage Ramanujacharya through his 'gyana chakshu' visualised it and sketched it !!!
Verse from MahaBharatha :
सुदर्शनं प्रवक्ष्यामि द्वीपं ते कुरुनन्दन |
परिमण्डलो महाराज द्वीपोऽसौ चक्रसंस्थितः ||१२||
यथा च पुरुषः पश्येदादर्शे मुखमात्मनः |
एवं सुदर्शनद्वीपो दृश्यते चन्द्रमण्डले ||१५||
द्विरंशे पिप्पलस्तत्र द्विरंशे च शशो महान् ||१६.१|| - भीष्मपर्व, महाभारतम्
Re: Understanding the US- Again
Madam Witch .... her Karma caught up with her....
A fascinating account of Robin Raphel
The Last Diplomat
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-last-d ... 1480695454
A fascinating account of Robin Raphel
The Last Diplomat
https://www.wsj.com/articles/the-last-d ... 1480695454
Re: Understanding the US- Again
i found a pdf book on my hdd long forgotten, its named "empires of the silk road" by christopher beckwith
it deals with the history of the pivot area of the caspian and black sea basin, the cradle of many civilizations, hub of all ancient trade routes, hub of military expeditions and human migrations....
its fabric oozes with history
it deals with the history of the pivot area of the caspian and black sea basin, the cradle of many civilizations, hub of all ancient trade routes, hub of military expeditions and human migrations....
its fabric oozes with history
Re: Understanding the US- Again
the Romans and the Persians - the crucible through the ages
Re: Understanding the US- Again
We were young when we rode out on the long journey;
Now it seems those grandchildren of ours are riding horses.
We were few when we rode forth on that hard journey;
Now we’re called a Great Caravan that left tracks in the wastelands.
The tracks remain out in the wastes, in the valleys and mountain
passes, and
There are very many heroes left graveless in the desert.
Do not say graveless: In the tamarisk- reddened wilderness, at
Dawn, in the spring, our graves are covered with
rose-blossoms.
Our tracks remain, our dreams remain, everything remains,
far away, yet
Even if the wind blows, or the sands shift , they will never be
covered, our tracks.
And the caravan will never stop along the way, though our
horses are very thin;
One way or another these tracks will be found someday, by our
grandchildren;
Or, our great- grandchildren.
—Abdurehim Ötkur, Tracks1
Now it seems those grandchildren of ours are riding horses.
We were few when we rode forth on that hard journey;
Now we’re called a Great Caravan that left tracks in the wastelands.
The tracks remain out in the wastes, in the valleys and mountain
passes, and
There are very many heroes left graveless in the desert.
Do not say graveless: In the tamarisk- reddened wilderness, at
Dawn, in the spring, our graves are covered with
rose-blossoms.
Our tracks remain, our dreams remain, everything remains,
far away, yet
Even if the wind blows, or the sands shift , they will never be
covered, our tracks.
And the caravan will never stop along the way, though our
horses are very thin;
One way or another these tracks will be found someday, by our
grandchildren;
Or, our great- grandchildren.
—Abdurehim Ötkur, Tracks1
Re: Understanding the US- Again
the central asian basin and adjacent steppe is also the native place of the horse - a superweapon first used in war chariots and later after the stirrup was invented as the basis of large mobile nomadic cavalry armies.
hence the people of this region have had a long reach and influence on the course of human migration, war and human history.
hence the people of this region have had a long reach and influence on the course of human migration, war and human history.
Re: Understanding the US- Again
https://www.nytimes.com/2018/07/23/opin ... n=Trending
Opinion
Trump’s New Target in the Politics of Fear: Citizenship
The president has embraced McCarthy-era scare tactics. We may need a constitutional amendment to guarantee that citizenship can’t be revoked.
By John Ganz, July 23, 2018
Surveying the wreckage of McCarthyism in 1957, the political theorist Hannah Arendt wrote about efforts to denaturalize American citizens suspected of Communist ties. “It seems absurd,” she concluded, “but the fact is that, under the political circumstances of this century, a constitutional amendment may be needed to assure American citizens that they cannot be deprived of their citizenship, no matter what they do.” It no longer seems so absurd. Citizenship is squarely in the Trump administration’s cross hairs. It has organized a Citizenship and Immigration Services task force to denaturalize American citizens, the first effort of mass expatriation contemplated since the McCarthy era. In a recent op-ed article for The Washington Post, Michael Anton, a former national security official in the administration, even proposed getting rid of birthright citizenship — by dictatorial fiat, no less: “It falls, then, to Trump. An executive order could specify to federal agencies that the children of noncitizens are not citizens.” Yes, you’re reading that right: A high-ranking former member of the state security apparatus seriously believes that it is good policy to revoke citizenship by executive order. Nor is this is just the oddball notion of some eccentric former staff member. As far back as August 2015, Mr. Trump himself has trotted out similar ideas, telling CNN, “The 14th Amendment is very questionable as to whether or not somebody can come over and immediately that baby is a citizen.” He also suggested that “you can do something fast” to end birthright citizenship. It may be time to revisit Arendt’s proposal.
For Arendt, the prospect of mass statelessness was particularly alarming. Since states are the only institutions able to guarantee rights, she wrote, “A stateless person is not just expelled from one country, native or adopted, but from all countries — none being obliged to receive and naturalize him — which means he is actually expelled from humanity. Deprivation of citizenship consequently could be counted among the crimes against humanity, and some of the worst recognized crimes in this category have in fact, and not incidentally, been preceded by mass expatriations.” Arendt, a refugee from Nazi Germany who had been for a time stateless herself, had observed how, during the Holocaust, Jews had first been rendered stateless and how this had prevented their escape and facilitated their mass killing. This may seem like a remote possibility today, but it’s important to remember the stakes and meaning of statelessness.
It should be noted that it’s currently extremely difficult to denaturalize an American citizen, and it almost never happens. Even during McCarthyism, when there was the political will and legal machinery to expatriate people, the process was slowed down considerably by procedure and the courts. And in 1958, the Supreme Court ruled in Trop v. Dulles that denaturalization as a penalty for crimes was a violation of the Eighth Amendment’s prohibition of cruel and unusual punishments, with Earl Warren sharing some of Arendt’s sentiments about its horrors: “It is a form of punishment more primitive than torture, for it destroys for the individual the political existence that was centuries in development.”
While it appears to be technically possible for someone to lose his citizenship by committing treason, subsequent court rulings have made it impossible for a citizen to be stripped of that status without voluntarily renouncing it: You must simultaneously commit treason and state that you no longer want to be a United States citizen.
However, it is still possible for someone to lose his citizenship if it can be shown he acquired it fraudulently. A prominent case of this is John Demjanjuk, the Ukrainian-American autoworker who was accused of being the notorious guard Ivan the Terrible, responsible for gassing hundreds of thousands at Treblinka and lying on his citizenship application about his Nazi past. Mr. Demjanjuk had his citizenship revoked, restored on appeal and then revoked again. Today, the Trump administration is looking to deport people for offenses they committed before they were citizens but did not disclose on their forms. For instance, The Miami Herald reported that the Citizenship and Immigration Services is attempting to denaturalize a Florida woman, Norma Borgogno, who immigrated from Peru, on the grounds that she did not disclose a criminal past on her citizenship application. Ms. Borgogno, a 63-year-old secretary, got involved in a fraud scheme her boss had perpetrated, cooperated with the F.B.I., pleaded guilty and served a year of house arrest and four years of probation. Not exactly Ivan the Terrible. The number of potential denaturalization cases that are being considered is reportedly in the thousands, so the Trump administration can’t hope to permanently alter the demographics of the country with this unwieldy device. Maybe it doesn’t have to. It’s possible that the true intent — and the probable consequence — of the Trump policy is that naturalized citizens will not actively participate in political activity for fear that some old mistake on their forms could put their status in jeopardy.
.....
Gautam
Opinion
Trump’s New Target in the Politics of Fear: Citizenship
The president has embraced McCarthy-era scare tactics. We may need a constitutional amendment to guarantee that citizenship can’t be revoked.
By John Ganz, July 23, 2018
Surveying the wreckage of McCarthyism in 1957, the political theorist Hannah Arendt wrote about efforts to denaturalize American citizens suspected of Communist ties. “It seems absurd,” she concluded, “but the fact is that, under the political circumstances of this century, a constitutional amendment may be needed to assure American citizens that they cannot be deprived of their citizenship, no matter what they do.” It no longer seems so absurd. Citizenship is squarely in the Trump administration’s cross hairs. It has organized a Citizenship and Immigration Services task force to denaturalize American citizens, the first effort of mass expatriation contemplated since the McCarthy era. In a recent op-ed article for The Washington Post, Michael Anton, a former national security official in the administration, even proposed getting rid of birthright citizenship — by dictatorial fiat, no less: “It falls, then, to Trump. An executive order could specify to federal agencies that the children of noncitizens are not citizens.” Yes, you’re reading that right: A high-ranking former member of the state security apparatus seriously believes that it is good policy to revoke citizenship by executive order. Nor is this is just the oddball notion of some eccentric former staff member. As far back as August 2015, Mr. Trump himself has trotted out similar ideas, telling CNN, “The 14th Amendment is very questionable as to whether or not somebody can come over and immediately that baby is a citizen.” He also suggested that “you can do something fast” to end birthright citizenship. It may be time to revisit Arendt’s proposal.
For Arendt, the prospect of mass statelessness was particularly alarming. Since states are the only institutions able to guarantee rights, she wrote, “A stateless person is not just expelled from one country, native or adopted, but from all countries — none being obliged to receive and naturalize him — which means he is actually expelled from humanity. Deprivation of citizenship consequently could be counted among the crimes against humanity, and some of the worst recognized crimes in this category have in fact, and not incidentally, been preceded by mass expatriations.” Arendt, a refugee from Nazi Germany who had been for a time stateless herself, had observed how, during the Holocaust, Jews had first been rendered stateless and how this had prevented their escape and facilitated their mass killing. This may seem like a remote possibility today, but it’s important to remember the stakes and meaning of statelessness.
It should be noted that it’s currently extremely difficult to denaturalize an American citizen, and it almost never happens. Even during McCarthyism, when there was the political will and legal machinery to expatriate people, the process was slowed down considerably by procedure and the courts. And in 1958, the Supreme Court ruled in Trop v. Dulles that denaturalization as a penalty for crimes was a violation of the Eighth Amendment’s prohibition of cruel and unusual punishments, with Earl Warren sharing some of Arendt’s sentiments about its horrors: “It is a form of punishment more primitive than torture, for it destroys for the individual the political existence that was centuries in development.”
While it appears to be technically possible for someone to lose his citizenship by committing treason, subsequent court rulings have made it impossible for a citizen to be stripped of that status without voluntarily renouncing it: You must simultaneously commit treason and state that you no longer want to be a United States citizen.
However, it is still possible for someone to lose his citizenship if it can be shown he acquired it fraudulently. A prominent case of this is John Demjanjuk, the Ukrainian-American autoworker who was accused of being the notorious guard Ivan the Terrible, responsible for gassing hundreds of thousands at Treblinka and lying on his citizenship application about his Nazi past. Mr. Demjanjuk had his citizenship revoked, restored on appeal and then revoked again. Today, the Trump administration is looking to deport people for offenses they committed before they were citizens but did not disclose on their forms. For instance, The Miami Herald reported that the Citizenship and Immigration Services is attempting to denaturalize a Florida woman, Norma Borgogno, who immigrated from Peru, on the grounds that she did not disclose a criminal past on her citizenship application. Ms. Borgogno, a 63-year-old secretary, got involved in a fraud scheme her boss had perpetrated, cooperated with the F.B.I., pleaded guilty and served a year of house arrest and four years of probation. Not exactly Ivan the Terrible. The number of potential denaturalization cases that are being considered is reportedly in the thousands, so the Trump administration can’t hope to permanently alter the demographics of the country with this unwieldy device. Maybe it doesn’t have to. It’s possible that the true intent — and the probable consequence — of the Trump policy is that naturalized citizens will not actively participate in political activity for fear that some old mistake on their forms could put their status in jeopardy.
.....
Gautam
Re: Understanding the US- Again
The INS Citizenship form has many caveats on revoking citizenship.