Indian Military Helicopters

SaiK · Post by **SaiK** » 25 Jul 2018 16:55

Advanced Light Helicopter gives teeth to Navy's airborne ops | Videos...

Read more at: https://english.manoramaonline.com/news ... e-ops.html

Vamsi_V · Post by **Vamsi_V** » 25 Jul 2018 17:23

What is the status of light combat helicopter? Didn't hear anything for a long time now.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 25 Jul 2018 17:48

Austin wrote:They did the same for Naval Dhruv

Naval Dhruv had a different issue. It was positioned as a Seaking replacement and obviously could not accommodate all that equipment.

What can be done is have versions of Dhruv like Seahawk -

1. Training, Utility, Transport & SAR - current version of INAS 322. Will need a weather radar in addition to standard Dhruv equipment
2. Anti Piracy / Anti Terrorist / Amphibious assault support - Navalized Rudra
3. ASW - with two LWT, dipping sonar, sonobuoys & launcher
4. Anti Ship - with two Harpoon/Exocet/Konsberg NSM and Elta 2022 search radar.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 25 Jul 2018 21:15

There was no desire of IN to induct Dhruv the rest of option like Sea hake etc could have worked out , sonar for Dhruv was developed by drdo and afaik they could carry 2 lwt 324 mm or less

nvishal · Post by **nvishal** » 25 Jul 2018 21:33

Can someone following the sale of the Apache AH-64E helicopters confirm whether it will use indian made encrypted communication systems like the C17 and C130J?

This "report" says:

The Pentagon’s position is that the COMCASA is required by law if the US is to export sensitive military equipment to a country

The(Indian) Army said India was in the process of buying sensitive equipment from the US.

This includes two major platforms: The M777 and the Apache AH 64E

I generally don't peddle gossip from the indian media. I don't think the M777 is a sensitive equipment haha but I was curious about the AH64E. There are zero reliable reports from either shiv aroor or janes regarding this. During the C17/C130J sale, it was clearly states that the american communication equipment was being replaced by indian communication equipment.

nam · Post by **nam** » 25 Jul 2018 21:42

We haven't signed the treaty, so it will use Indian IFF(if required) and comm equipment like P8I.

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 27 Jul 2018 12:14

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1022729965949931520

FIRST PHOTOS: The 1st Indian Air Force AH-64E Apache & CH-47F Chinook on their inaugural flights at Mesa, Arizona.

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1022732011763642368

So the IAF has opted for its default ‘Tipnis grey’ on the two @Boeing_In rotorcraft that begin deliveries next March.

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 27 Jul 2018 12:38

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1022737755498074112

In three shots, the 1st @Boeing_In AH-64E Apache for the @IAF_MCC taking off on July 16. Our piece on the kind of Apache India is getting: https://www.livefistdefence.com/2015/10 ... india.html

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1022738048038121472

And here’s the @IAF_MCC’s first @Boeing_In CH-47F Chinook in the air for the first time.

jpremnath · Post by **jpremnath** » 27 Jul 2018 13:28

The AH is a beauty...Hope HAL comes up with a LCH mk2, with all the muscles, bells and whistles of AH.

Viv S · Post by **Viv S** » 27 Jul 2018 14:00

For some reason I assumed the AH-64 would come same boring olive green like the US Army units. But Tipnis grey? Fantastic.

Kakarat · Post by **Kakarat** » 27 Jul 2018 14:08

https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1022750544581021698

VIDEO: The 1st Indian Air Force AH-64E Apache & CH-47F Chinook on their inaugural flights at Mesa, Arizona. Deliveries begin March 2019. / via @Boeing_In

Manish_P · Post by **Manish_P** » 27 Jul 2018 15:47

https://twitter.com/SaurabhJoshi/status/1022734162724356096

The Apache AH-64E also has the capability to control/operate/target unmanned aircraft. This capability has not been offered to the IAF

Am i right in assuming that this is because we have not got on board COMCASA. If in the future we do so, then the capability can get added on (at extra cost)

chola · Post by **chola** » 27 Jul 2018 16:20

Kakarat wrote:https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1022737755498074112
In three shots, the 1st @Boeing_In AH-64E Apache for the @IAF_MCC taking off on July 16. Our piece on the kind of Apache India is getting: https://www.livefistdefence.com/2015/10 ... india.html
https://twitter.com/livefist/status/1022738048038121472

And here’s the @IAF_MCC’s first @Boeing_In CH-47F Chinook in the air for the first time.

They look absolutely beautiful in our colors.

Singha · Post by **Singha** » 27 Jul 2018 16:29

Viv S wrote:For some reason I assumed the AH-64 would come same boring olive green like the US Army units. But Tipnis grey? Fantastic.

because the IAF owns them.

the IA apaches may be come in their own sand/digital camo.

VishalJ · Post by **VishalJ** » 27 Jul 2018 20:17

ramana · Post by **ramana** » 27 Jul 2018 20:39

That COMCASA not going to.happen. So stop bringing it up.

VishalJ · Post by **VishalJ** » 27 Jul 2018 23:03

Pls join in the naamkaran samaroh: https://twitter.com/VishalJolapara/stat ... 9868540929

Picklu · Post by **Picklu** » 27 Jul 2018 23:58

This colour on a helo is so meh......

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 28 Jul 2018 03:29

Beautiful colors! I especially love the contrast color of the main aiframe's Tipnis grey versus the dark green on the FLIR optical turret. Israeli Apaches had that too and I loved that compared to the dull all dark green color scheme on most other Apaches.

Rakesh · Post by **Rakesh** » 28 Jul 2018 05:37

Beautiful colours. WOW....that Tipnis grey is gorgeous. Both helicopters look amazing.

Khalsa · Post by **Khalsa** » 28 Jul 2018 16:54

I think the Tipnis grey reflects our envrmnt.
I love it.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 28 Jul 2018 17:32

Mi-171A2 helicopter tested for automatic landing

Domestic appliances manufactured at the Saratov JSC "KB Promavtomatiki" made possible the automatic landing of the Mi-171A2 helicopter. The avionics of the helicopter is equipped with the PKV-171 flight control system and the navigating console-calculator PVN-1-03. Flight tests of the helicopter were held in Astrakhan.

The crew of the helicopter performed for the first time instrumental landing blindly, being guided only by the readings of the flight control system and signals of the local control-correcting station (LKKS). So far, only aircraft have been able to perform such a landing. The airborne navigation system installed on the helicopter showed perfect interaction with the LKKS equipment.

Saratov designers were able to combine satellite navigation equipment and a calculator in one case of the remote control calculator, which provides the integration of satellite information with other onboard equipment sensors with the calculation and delivery of information about the trajectory and navigation and flight parameters of the helicopter. All this information enters the flight control system automatically.

The new technology made the landing more accurate and safe, reducing the impact of the human factor, time of day and weather. Also the equipment allows to reduce flight time and save fuel.

https://sdelanounas.ru/blogs/110114/

Lisa · Post by **Lisa** » 28 Jul 2018 18:19

Polite question, why no radar dome on Apache mast? Anyone know?

Cybaru · Post by **Cybaru** » 28 Jul 2018 19:12

It's an add on and a can be added before flight. Not a permanent fixture. It hurts altitude performance...

Indranil · Post by **Indranil** » 28 Jul 2018 19:53

Not all of them will have the radar.

kshirin · Post by **kshirin** » 28 Jul 2018 21:49

ramana wrote:That COMCASA not going to.happen. So stopbringing it up.

This is very reassuring. But how are you so sure? Reports are that we will pay with COMCASA for Russian waiver. And that COMCASA obliges us to reduce purchases from Russia and eventually indigenous sources too. Hoping I am wrong so feel free to contradict.

nvishal · Post by **nvishal** » 28 Jul 2018 22:25

kshirin wrote:
ramana wrote:That COMCASA not going to.happen. So stopbringing it up.
This is very reassuring. But how are you so sure? Reports are that we will pay with COMCASA for Russian waiver. And that COMCASA obliges us to reduce purchases from Russia and eventually indigenous sources too. Hoping I am wrong so feel free to contradict.

You lack understanding of the basics

It depends where the sanctions come from

There is difference between the US ordering a few of its poodles to stop transacting with India vs an entity like the UN which asks its members to the same.

The CAATSA act comes solely from the US state and has no legal validity in the global world. The americans are in a situation where they cannot solely impose sanctions on India, whatever they are worth.

COMCASA is a requirement for using certain communication equipments from the US. The Indian side is fishing for hardware without those equipment. Ignore the Indian reports as most of them have 2% facts and 98% gossip.

Head over to shiv aroors livefist page for reliable info on defence acquisition. At the same time, you can head over to ajai shuklas broadsword blogpost to get the latest sales pitch from the US defence lobby. They appear on his blogpost 10 days in advance before the Indian media gets it for wide aggregation.

kshirin · Post by **kshirin** » 28 Jul 2018 22:46

Hullo, nothing in my post suggests I dont know the difference between the US and the UN.

nvishal · Post by **nvishal** » 28 Jul 2018 23:06

XXXXXX

----------
Added later: Ignore my comments. Maybe another BR member can answer your questions appropriately

Edit by Karan M:
Please be civil and take forward the discussion constructively.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 29 Jul 2018 00:32

For our P-8I and C-130J, we using BEL and Israeli datalink and communication equipment. No US communication equipment is used, so no need to sign COMCASA

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 29 Jul 2018 00:40

VishalJ wrote:Pls join in the naamkaran samaroh: https://twitter.com/VishalJolapara/stat ... 9868540929

IAF stopped naming foreign equipment. Su-30MKI, C-17, C-130, don't have Indian names. Was silly anyways renaming an already named equipment.
IN never had Indian names for Islander, Dornier, Kamov, Sea Harrier or Sea King.

tsarkar · Post by **tsarkar** » 29 Jul 2018 00:48

The Chinook is the second helicopter after Seaking capable of water landing without floats

Pratyush · Post by **Pratyush** » 29 Jul 2018 06:49

Lisa wrote:Polite question, why no radar dome on Apache mast? Anyone know?

Because not every Apache has one.

kshirin · Post by **kshirin** » 29 Jul 2018 09:32

That is why I am asking, as a very concerned and agonised citizen, how are you (Ramana and nvishal) sure we are not going to sign? Really scared that it will put paid to indigenous industry, which is getting NO support. IIT (M) has come up with an indigenous chip, others have created high technology, but there are no takers as the major part of defence capital outlay has gone for imports.

Neshant · Post by **Neshant** » 29 Jul 2018 10:14

With no support for domestic R&D in defense, there is no nucleus around which fledgling science & tech companies can form.

India has spent a fortune subsidizing the scienctific and engineering cadre of foreign nations with expensive armament imports.

nvishal · Post by **nvishal** » 29 Jul 2018 10:56

kshirin wrote:how are you (Ramana and nvishal) sure we are not going to sign?

A US bugged hardware is limited in actual use. They cannot be used on the border with pakistan(a longterm american ally). Instead, they can be used on the border with china. Here, the americans are convinced that they can get the indians to do the work for them. This is what they mean by the term, "major defence partner" aka a rent boy.

Previously, we bought the C17, C130J from the US. Both of them used COMCASA communication and navigation systems but the indian side bluntly told the americans that we don't want it with COMCASA equipment. They could have done this now but the US must have refused to sell them without COMCASA. Imagine indian pilots using private encrypted walky talkies to communicate with headquaters because the onboard equipment has arrived in bugged condition. It already reveals their GPS coordinates.

It's also not that hard to disguise snooping components on a PCB. Any commercial component manufacturer will happily take a custom order to fit the form factor. The CIA has its own guys making custom components for them.

How will you inspect them if the americans don't allow access to the mainframe without ripping a few VOID stickers? Reverse engineering a PCB schematic takes just half to 1 hour for a 10x10cm PCB board and any hobbyist can do it and reveal the function of each side in the pcb.

On americans passing snooping components inside their systems

When we are importing so much military equipment from the US, do we really believe that they can’t monitor things that they want to?

Rishi_Tri · Post by **Rishi_Tri** » 29 Jul 2018 22:47

Why was 'Experimental' printed on side of the AH?

Kartik · Post by **Kartik** » 31 Jul 2018 03:38

Because it is the first of its kind. India being a new customer with its own set of specific requirements, will need some flight testing and qualification before being handed over to the customer. After the baseline is qualified, the remaining serial produced AH-64E Guardians for India can be handed over after acceptance tests and acceptance flights are completed.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 31 Jul 2018 11:07

ALH Dhruv in a stunning livery and civilian reg. at Aero India 2005.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » 15 Aug 2018 20:45

Work on Future Engine Techology was presented by CIAM at Helirussia 2018 , Posting in full for the work and technologies involved

CIAM PRESENTED PROSPECTS FOR THE DEVELOPMENT OF HELICOPTER ENGINES

https://www.aviaport.ru/news/2018/06/26/545147.html

At the 11th International Helicopter Industry Exhibition HeliRussia 2018, held in late May, the Round Table "The Present and Future of Engine Building for Helicopters" was held, at which Yuri Fokin, Head of the Small-Scale Gas Turbine Engine (MGTD) Department of the Central Institute of Aviation Motors (CIAM), was the keynote speaker. Below is a systematic presentation of his report.

Introduction

In the 1990-2000s, a dramatic situation developed in the domestic helicopter engine building, due to the fact that after the collapse of the USSR, Russia remained without serial production of helicopter engines, in particular, the main aircraft engine of the TV3-117 family, which was manufactured by Zaporizhzhya Motor Sich enterprise. In addition, for a long time, new domestic helicopter engines were not developed or commissioned. Some projects have been started, but have not been completed, for example, the RD-600 helicopter aircraft engine.

The lack of domestic aircraft engines led to the fact that almost all domestic developed and modified helicopters were used aircraft engines of foreign production. Helicopters Ka-226, Ka-226T, Ansat, Ansat-U, Ka-62, Mi-26 use foreign-made engines. Now we are considering the option of using a foreign engine on a promising medium-sized transport helicopter. Moreover, even on the Mi-38 medium-capacity helicopter, the installation of a foreign engine was originally planned, and only the supplier's refusal to supply engines to Russia forced domestic developers to create a Russian engine (TV7-117V). Today, after many years of discussion, the issue of developing the serial production of VK-2500 engines in Russia has been resolved.

What is done by the "United Engine-Building Corporation"

Since the beginning of this decade, the program of import substitution in helicopter engine construction was launched, within which a very significant amount of work was carried out. The main results can be considered the development of the serial production of the VK-2500 family engines in Russia. In addition to assembling the engines of the basic version entirely from domestic components, work was carried out to create deeply upgraded VK-2500P / PS engines, in particular, VK-2500PС-03 certified for the newest Mi-171A2 helicopter. The VK-2500PS engine is a modification of the VK-2500 engine with a new fully digital control system of the FADEC type. Now the state joint testing of another modification of the VK-2500 VK-2500P engine for the modernized Mi-28NM helicopter, which is in the stage of flight tests, is on the agenda now.

In addition, the helicopter engine TV7-117V for Mi-38 has been certified. The basic version was developed in the 1980s, but the engine was certified quite recently, the Certificate was obtained with certain limitations of the operational range. During 2018, the whole range of measures to expand the operational range within the framework of the Terms of Reference should be completed, Fokin added.

We consider the possibility of developing a PD-12V engine for perspective heavy helicopters and VK-800V for light helicopters. So on the basis of the gas generator of the dual-path engine PD-14, intended for the passenger-oriented MS-21 airplane, the PD-12V engine for heavy Mi-26 helicopters is being developed. As for VK-800, work is now under way on an aircraft engine version intended for use in the power unit of the L-410 aircraft. At the same time, the CIAM supports the resumption of work on the creation of a helicopter version of VK-800V.

Finally, work was started to shape the perspective helicopter engine. At present, the company "ODK-Klimov" forms proposals for a prospective engine under the "Prospective engine for helicopters" program, this project has not yet been examined by CIAM. But so far it is known that an aircraft engine will be offered in a larger class of power than TV7-117V, which exceeds the existing analogues in terms of manufacturability and specific mass.

Creation of advanced scientific and technical reserve

Creation of future aircraft engines is impossible without creation of advanced scientific and technical reserve (NTZ). The goals and programs of NTZ development are already defined. In accordance with the adopted program, prospective aircraft engines should have significantly better characteristics in comparison, for example,

The main directions of the development of helicopter aircraft engines

The specialists of CIAM developed seven main directions for the development of aircraft engines for prospective domestic helicopters

Also the task is to improve the methods of 3D-design.

To ensure these directions of work, the CIAM is developing a whole range of breakthrough technologies. Together with the enterprises of the branch, the institute implements a program called "Development of Technologies for Advanced MGTS and AAP", the aim of this program is the creation of eleven demonstrators of advanced technologies.

Demonstration "electric" MGTD;

1 High-speed reducer MGTD;
2 Nozzle apparatus turbine from KM;
3 Heat exchanger for MGTD "complex" cycle;
4 Combustion chamber MGTD with elements from CM;
5 Experimental single-stage pulp and paper mill
6 Experimental two-stage PPM;
7 High-speed stage of helicopter gearbox.
8 Demonstration turbo-compound aviation piston engine;
9 Demonstration MGTD on gas supports;
10 Demonstration rotary-piston engine.

In accordance with the program, in 2017, the planned design studies with conditional leveling for 2025 and 2035 technologies were performed, and in 2018-2019 it is planned to manufacture and test demonstrators.

To achieve the stated progress of the characteristics of helicopter engines, the CIAM defines a set of technologies that allow obtaining products of a given level of perfection. So to "Technologies 2025" are:

1 Two-stage pulp and paper mill;
2 Compact low-emission CS;
3 RK turbine type "Bliss";
4 Impeller of pulp and paper mill from KM;
5 Compressor casing from CM Cabinet of CS from CM;
6 KS Flare pipe from KM;
7 CA turbine from CM;
8 Hybrid bearings;
9 Electric drive of units;
10 Wireless sensors ACS;
11 HIPCs with remote access;
12 MGTD "complex" cycle with maintenance.

"Technology 2035" includes:

1 Uncooled RK turbines from KM;
2 Case details in MS from KM;
3 Uncooled oil supports;
4 Shafts from CM.