INS Arihant: News & Discussion
Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion
Why's he burning?
Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion
Ever since this came out, been wanting to post a pic of Russia's Podmoskovye (BS 64). Turns out I had posted before: an old post of minePrasad wrote:
The aft taper and hump of Arihant seem closest to this evolved Delta IV
Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion
Well Mao did manage to kill millions of Chinese! Point is everybaki can prattle around saying thatLisa wrote: Mao's theory on atomic bomb: They can't kill us all
https://newspaperarchive.com/morgantown ... -1964-p-2/
"What if they killed 300 million of us? We would still have many people left."
The only response to such bakis is a calm and quite response,I will kill you all, and the last man surviving will be Dr. Strangelove
Note that chinese invaded India in 1962, had the bum by 1968 and still twiddled their fingers in 1971. Go figure.bliss try to do it
Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion
this is a very unusual refit, because the regular deltaIV carry the sineva missile and have a very tall boxy hump. not a all streamlined like this vessel. looks it it does not cart missiles anymore, but may have sea facing chambers wet chambers for commando and snooping equiment / underwater robots.
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Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion
I guess hatred for this govt. Manifesting as rafale and any issueKashi wrote:Why's he burning?
Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion
But this specific burn that you tried to call out, was it about Arihant?
Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion
Ramanaramana wrote:Bararth_s,
I did not know about the K4 hangfire in Dec 2017. Besides you posted after my post.
I vehmently object to your attributing motives to me..
I dint have to be selective of facts.
I suggest you apologize.
I dont take such things lightly.
Ramana
I suggest you go back and re-read. There is always an or clause and it was not done with disrespect. And no, I am not going to apologize, just because you suggest I should and you do not take things lightly.
I've been around bharat rakshak for well over a decade, and have seen the quality drop and people leave/character of the board change, and have taken breaks away from it as well as a result. No sleep lost.
As moderator and as commenter, you can decide what kind of community you would like and what kind of example you would like to set.
If you did not know of the K4 hangfire (which is in basic locations like wiki), I would assume you knew of only the two test firings that you linked (eg not the 3rd back in 2014). And 2-3 are usually not enough for operationalization (though I understand one cannot assume that there weren't others or of obfuscation or of firings one had missed). Then you missed it and it was not done intentionally. No big deal. It's just a chat board.
heck, we cannot all of us always be expert in everything; god knows i have missed enough and made enough mistakes. But I do try and learn.
And ? This is a non-sequitor.ramana wrote:
Besides you posted after my post.
Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion
What would you make of SSN Guitarro ?Rakesh wrote: Saar, my bad. Justify is the wrong term. Perhaps obfuscation would be a better term. But the idea that water can enter through a open hatch - during a dive - makes no sense whatsoever. No alarm, no fail safe measure. That is highly improbable. The open hatch story is an excuse.
Water entered during trim/calibration and the boat sank (!) while at dock. The Arihant was in harbor and water only entered to the propulsion area as per the story. I doubt if you have fail safes or sensors everywhere ...
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Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion
For those who doubt wrt K4. Have a look at this carefully.
Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion
I get it....I can see a loading crane lifting a huge white+black missile into position for going in the tube.
the missile seems to be taper down in 3rd stage and then have a fatter white section like a PSLV payload fairing.
is this image on google earth?
the missile seems to be taper down in 3rd stage and then have a fatter white section like a PSLV payload fairing.
is this image on google earth?
Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion
the zebra dazzler pattern on the telescopes is similar to the los angeles class subs operating in the artic and german u-boats off norway from past memories of comics
Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion
I unfollowed him a long time ago. That man is bitter like everyone with a sense of entitlement in Lutyens Delhi.ArjunPandit wrote:^^meanwhile shooklaw is burning with anger on twitter. Does not respond to me when i call his lies out.
Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion
Tull sir I found your image on google earth. if you open below link from chrome browser, the white stick seems like a gangway only not the arm of a crane
https://earth.google.com/web/@17.709184 ... 7311t,360r
the white pipey thing seems like some electrical or AC system plugged into a rear hatch from outside. maybe it supplies hotel cooling and electric power to the sub dockside.
https://earth.google.com/web/@17.709184 ... 7311t,360r
the white pipey thing seems like some electrical or AC system plugged into a rear hatch from outside. maybe it supplies hotel cooling and electric power to the sub dockside.
Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion
Ramana Empty vessels make a lot of noise. I do not know what this professor is trying to say. He says nothing but says it so well.
Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion
That is the official storybarath_s wrote:What would you make of SSN Guitarro ?
Water entered during trim/calibration and the boat sank (!) while at dock. The Arihant was in harbor and water only entered to the propulsion area as per the story. I doubt if you have fail safes or sensors everywhere ...
For the sake of clarity, I post this for other readers....
INS Arihant left crippled after ‘accident’ 10 months ago
https://www.thehindu.com/news/national/ ... 392049.ece
But then, you have this...Arihant’s propulsion compartment was damaged after water entered it, according to details available with The Hindu. A naval source said water rushed in as a hatch on the rear side was left open by mistake while it was at harbour.
Deep diving into the facts about INS Arihant 'accident'
https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/ne ... 468708.cms
The story of a hatch being left open by mistake is a hoax. If security on the Arihant boat is this lax, next we will hear of a missle hatch on the Arihant left open by mistakeFirst, the news item stated that the Arihant’s propulsion compartment was damaged after water entered it, as a hatch on the rear side was left open by mistake. The submarine has no hatches there. The Arihant is based on Russian double hull design with a sealed nuclear reactor section. Except for the latest French nuclear submarines that have a hatch above the reactor for quicker refuelling, no other country with nuclear submarines have such a system. Although the Arihant’s core is not designed to operate for the submarine’s lifetime and will need refuelling, it does not have a hatch. To refuel, the hull will have to be cut open and welded back, as is the case for the Russian nuclear attack submarine, the Akula-II class that India has leased and operates as INS Chakra.
Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion
Yeah, the 'Deep diving into the facts ' article was illogical.
No one said water got into the nuclear reactor compartment (strawman), there are missile hatches at the rear of the sub (have to be to launch missiles and load them). At least if you count aft of the sail as rear. (I would not call them at the front at any rate) That doesn't mean water from such a hatch is getting piped to a propulsion compartment, but it does speak to the article credibility or perhaps purpose.
The reactor vessel/core is part of the propulsion system, but there are other parts that do not need to be behind radiation shielding and aren't.
So you are left with a believe what you want to situation.
Wherein what you believe probably says more about you than about reality....
And that is before we start speculation on who wrote and published such an article, WHY, and what was the level of knowledge or otherwise
No one said water got into the nuclear reactor compartment (strawman), there are missile hatches at the rear of the sub (have to be to launch missiles and load them). At least if you count aft of the sail as rear. (I would not call them at the front at any rate) That doesn't mean water from such a hatch is getting piped to a propulsion compartment, but it does speak to the article credibility or perhaps purpose.
The reactor vessel/core is part of the propulsion system, but there are other parts that do not need to be behind radiation shielding and aren't.
So you are left with a believe what you want to situation.
Wherein what you believe probably says more about you than about reality....
And that is before we start speculation on who wrote and published such an article, WHY, and what was the level of knowledge or otherwise
Last edited by barath_s on 09 Nov 2018 19:44, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion
On this 'story' of the hatch being left open and the SS02 being Flooded, could this be a ruse for ensuring SS03 is able to move out for fitting (out of the covered space while SS04 hull is getting ready - to make it look like the SS03 is the SS02, while SS02 is merrily testing itself out in some waters. This also aids the SS02 which if in waters friendly or unfriendly, if visible/found for whatever reason is mistaken to be something else (as the signatures most probably wont be available).
This of course is just a speculation
And my first post from my new ID (forgot the old password and the old email no longer works
This of course is just a speculation
And my first post from my new ID (forgot the old password and the old email no longer works
Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion
Minor adjustment and God forbid :Rakesh wrote: The story of a hatch being left open by mistake is a hoax. If security on the Arihant boat is this lax, next we will hear of a missle hatch on the Arihant left open by mistake
If security on the Arihant boat is this lax, next we will hear of a missle fired from a hatch on the Arihant left open by mistake
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Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion
The horizontal white structure is a gangway. You have to concentrate on the open hatch.
Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion
By the way, I messed up BIG TIME. I kept stating that the hatch was open during a dive. That is incorrect. My sincere apologies.
As per the news article, the hatch was open while at dock and water entered in. But still, I cannot buy that story
As per the news article, the hatch was open while at dock and water entered in. But still, I cannot buy that story
Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion
Folks will write articles for a variety of "vested" reasons. I am sure you remember the lifafa/hit piece on the Tejas last year, which was soundly refuted on BRF. Now in the Rafale thread, Ajai Shukla is stating that the NDA paid 40% more than the UPA, on the Rafale deal. Despite having zero evidence to prove otherwise.barath_s wrote:Yeah, the 'Deep diving into the facts ' article was illogical.
......
And that is before we start speculation on who wrote and published such an article, WHY, and what was the level of knowledge or otherwise
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Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion
Thinking spy versus spy was this a signal to some people that the "hatch was opened" (K4 loaded or fired)
Probably a visit by RAW may be required or was done thereafter to the sources for this story. seeing its proximity to Doklam incident makes me wonder.
Probably a visit by RAW may be required or was done thereafter to the sources for this story. seeing its proximity to Doklam incident makes me wonder.
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Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion
Non state actors of courseRKumar wrote:Minor adjustment and God forbid :Rakesh wrote: The story of a hatch being left open by mistake is a hoax. If security on the Arihant boat is this lax, next we will hear of a missle hatch on the Arihant left open by mistake
If security on the Arihant boat is this lax, next we will hear of a missle fired from a hatch on the Arihant left open by mistake
Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion
Sorry, not going to spoon feed you.barath_s wrote:If you have actual updated information, do please link.
Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion
I am amazed at the bickering here with so little information. Nobody in the open source knows the current state of K-4 testing/integration. Yet ...
Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion
And there isn't a single clear picture of K-4 available
Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion
Baarath_S
You are rude and disrespectful.
The forum does not need such people who attribute motives to admins.
I gave you an out but you persist.
I am banning you.
Bye.
You are rude and disrespectful.
The forum does not need such people who attribute motives to admins.
I gave you an out but you persist.
I am banning you.
Bye.
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Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion
-Edited by Karan M
Arjun, your intervention was neither asked for nor warranted and is hence quite impolite.
If a moderator makes a decision, it has been done after due process. Please take this as a formal statement not to constantly second guess moderator decisions in the future.
Thanks,
Karan M
********************
Please dont edit a post after the mod has edited it and asked for the side track to end and no more OT posts. I repeat, constantly questioning mods decisions is neither asked for nor welcome as it vitiates forum discipline, even if that wasn't your intent. Please dont do so again. I understand and appreciate your point that you didn't mean to provoke any further trouble but let's stop this OT now.
Arjun, your intervention was neither asked for nor warranted and is hence quite impolite.
If a moderator makes a decision, it has been done after due process. Please take this as a formal statement not to constantly second guess moderator decisions in the future.
Thanks,
Karan M
********************
Please dont edit a post after the mod has edited it and asked for the side track to end and no more OT posts. I repeat, constantly questioning mods decisions is neither asked for nor welcome as it vitiates forum discipline, even if that wasn't your intent. Please dont do so again. I understand and appreciate your point that you didn't mean to provoke any further trouble but let's stop this OT now.
Last edited by ArjunPandit on 11 Nov 2018 03:24, edited 2 times in total.
Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion
I have been following BR for more than a Decade( Approx 15+ Yrs )....I must say this is one of the best forums to be into and read.ramana wrote:Baarath_S
You are rude and disrespectful.
The forum does not need such people who attribute motives to admins.
I gave you an out but you persist.
I am banning you.
Bye.
The Rights and Views of the Moderator are to be respected.
Best Wishes,
Kudva
Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion
Asking Ramana to "go easy on the banning" is disrespectful. I was going to interject to ask Barath S to not make unfounded allegations against a fellow member and moderator, merely because he perceived the person missed any point. He could have responded to Ramana's point with a polite reply stating he meant no offense. Instead he doubled down on the behavior. Many forums would have a warning for the first reply itself. IMHO, he got a lot of slack from ramana and disregarded it.
Please stick to the topic and get back on track, thank you.
Please stick to the topic and get back on track, thank you.
Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion
Security Scan - INS Arihant
Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion
Found this on the Hindu's homepage. Review the following before (gingerly) stepping into the article...
Unnecessary, destabilising and expensive - Suvrat Raju, The Hindu
Unnecessary, destabilising and expensive - Suvrat Raju, The Hindu
However, this strategic function makes little sense in the modern Indian context. There is no realistic threat, which the Arihant could counter, that could wipe out India’s existing nuclear deterrent. The range of the missiles carried by the Arihant is about 750 km, and so it can only target Pakistan and perhaps China.
As a differing opinion, these comments were par for the course, with some big holes in these arguments. But the following took it from a leftist China-pasand Hindu to BBC territory. Sound familiar?Much of the rest of the world has moved to outlaw nuclear weapons. Last year, 122 nations voted in favour of the “Treaty on the Prohibition of Nuclear Weapons”. The Indian government skipped these negotiations claiming, nevertheless, that it was “committed to universal... nuclear disarmament”. So the government’s active pursuit of nuclear-armed submarines undermines India’s stated international position and reflects a security assessment that is becoming increasingly irrelevant.
It is senseless to spend this money on nuclear submarines when thousands of lives are lost each year because the state pleads that it lacks resources for basic health care and nutrition.
Suvrat Raju, a theoretical physicist associated with the Coalition for Nuclear Disarmament and Peace, is based in Bengaluru. The views expressed are personal
Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion
If you rearrange the first name ('suvra') of the author , you will get the gist of who this A**h**e is. Unfortunately India has to suffer such fools.
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Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion
there's a rat tooVips wrote:If you rearrange the first name ('suvra') of the author , you will get the gist of who this A**h**e is. Unfortunately India has to suffer such fools.
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Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion
Arihant's capabilities, performance and offensive weapons are unknown, and in the relam of speculation, hotly discussed on various internet forums.
Why, even the shape of the boat is still being discussed, a decade after launch.
But, when the Prime Minister calls a press conference and declares the nuclear triad operational, it surely means something.
About 7-8 years back (before Agni 5 testing), Chinese scholars used to argue that India's stated deterence was a 1500-2000 km IRBM with 50 kt, and India ought not to test anything bigger and "upset the balance".
They were trying to force our planners to not cross this threshold in interest of " Good neighbourly relations".
Obviously, no mention of various DF series missiles developed by China, or their nuclear yields were mentioned.
If Arihant and Agni we're not available, i imagine Doklam crisis would have gone differently.
Suvrat Raju has not mentioned these aspects, nor addressed Chinese intentions in his article.
We have seen with our own eyes Chinese belligerence in Doklam, trying to nibble Bhutan territory to gain strategic superiority on Indian positions.
Why, even the shape of the boat is still being discussed, a decade after launch.
But, when the Prime Minister calls a press conference and declares the nuclear triad operational, it surely means something.
About 7-8 years back (before Agni 5 testing), Chinese scholars used to argue that India's stated deterence was a 1500-2000 km IRBM with 50 kt, and India ought not to test anything bigger and "upset the balance".
They were trying to force our planners to not cross this threshold in interest of " Good neighbourly relations".
Obviously, no mention of various DF series missiles developed by China, or their nuclear yields were mentioned.
If Arihant and Agni we're not available, i imagine Doklam crisis would have gone differently.
Suvrat Raju has not mentioned these aspects, nor addressed Chinese intentions in his article.
We have seen with our own eyes Chinese belligerence in Doklam, trying to nibble Bhutan territory to gain strategic superiority on Indian positions.
Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion
Read the comments.arshyam wrote:Found this on the Hindu's homepage. Review the following before (gingerly) stepping into the article...
Unnecessary, destabilising and expensive - Suvrat Raju, The Hindu
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Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion
SSridhar wrote:. quote="arshyam"
Read the comments.
Do more need to be said :
"Suvrat Raju, a theoretical physicist associated with the Coalition for Nuclear Disarmament and Peace, is based in Bengaluru. The views expressed are personal"
"The Coalition for Nuclear Disarmament and Peace (CNDP) is India’s national network of over 200 organisations, including grassroots groups, mass movements and advocacy organisations, as well as individuals. Formed in November 2000, CNDP demands that India and Pakistan roll back their nuclear weapons programmes. Our emphasis:
No to further nuclear testing
No to induction and deployment of nuclear weapons
Yes to global and regional nuclear disarmament
CNDP works to raise mass awareness through schools and colleges programmes, publications, audio and visual materials, and campaigning and lobbying at various levels."
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Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion
5 Main Sources of Noise in a Nuclear Submarine (Something to think about from Arihant perspective. Source: Norman Polmar)
Machinery: reactor, cooling pumps and fluid thru pipes, unbalanced machinery and poorly finished gears meshing with each other.
Propeller: cavitation noise
Hydrodynamic: flow over hull surfaces, sails, etc.
Transient Perturbations: due to opening torpedo hatches, movement of control surfaces, etc.
Crew: opening hatch loudly, dropping of tools.
Machinery: reactor, cooling pumps and fluid thru pipes, unbalanced machinery and poorly finished gears meshing with each other.
Propeller: cavitation noise
Hydrodynamic: flow over hull surfaces, sails, etc.
Transient Perturbations: due to opening torpedo hatches, movement of control surfaces, etc.
Crew: opening hatch loudly, dropping of tools.
Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion
Q. At what stage is the plan to build indige- nous nuclear-powered attack submarines?
We are looking at six SSNs (Nuclear- Powered Attack Submarines). It is part of the 30-year submarine building plan (to build 24 submarines, 18 conventional and 6 nuclear). It is at a design stage. The launch of the first SSN is over 10 years away
https://www.indiatoday.in/amp/magazine/ ... 2018-11-17
We are looking at six SSNs (Nuclear- Powered Attack Submarines). It is part of the 30-year submarine building plan (to build 24 submarines, 18 conventional and 6 nuclear). It is at a design stage. The launch of the first SSN is over 10 years away
https://www.indiatoday.in/amp/magazine/ ... 2018-11-17
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Re: INS Arihant: News & Discussion
From the interview, above.
China’s economy is more than six times that of ours and their defence budget is more than five times that of ours; they are investing large sums in developing maritime capability.
That seems to be comparing Chinese PPP GDP to India's dollar GDP. Chinese US $ GDP is closer to $9 trillion, India's is approaching $3 trillion. China is ahead but not insurmountably so. For perspective Pakistan's dollar GDP has shrunk 20 % this year, from 300 billion to 240 billion.
China’s economy is more than six times that of ours and their defence budget is more than five times that of ours; they are investing large sums in developing maritime capability.
That seems to be comparing Chinese PPP GDP to India's dollar GDP. Chinese US $ GDP is closer to $9 trillion, India's is approaching $3 trillion. China is ahead but not insurmountably so. For perspective Pakistan's dollar GDP has shrunk 20 % this year, from 300 billion to 240 billion.